LBRP FAQ: Q: *Why do you use a different pentagram direction from the one recommended by the Golden Dawn?* A: ua-cam.com/video/x2m0FAyUmao/v-deo.html Q: *Why do you have Fire in the East?* A: (this video) ua-cam.com/video/A_81XGIIG14/v-deo.html Q: *Why do you attribute Fire to Raphael and Air to Michael?* A: ua-cam.com/video/gO5oUK-nhyc/v-deo.html Q: *Why do you keep Air in the South and Earth in the North after all?* A: Community Post: ua-cam.com/users/postUgzz1UmhdkU6tVVgxER4AaABCQ
The fire to Raphael (holding a Caduceus aka wand) and air to Michael holding a sword lines up nicely with the tarot. I think i remember Stephen Skinner saying for the LRP he uses wand for air and sword for fire, for what i imagine are similar reasons. I keep them as is which is working for me, but do what thou wilt.
Michael being Air and Raphael being fire makes sense because of who their counterparts are. It never made sense to me that Azazel was fire so was Michael when Azazels Angelic counterpart is Raphael. The same is for Michael and Samael. They are opposites yet two different elements
Your first clue should have been 4th grade science class IMO. Solid, Liquid, Gas, Plasma. Earth, Water, Air, Fire. It's the 4 states of matter in order of solidity/density. Also, if this is a blinder, your thing about being incorrectly widdershins/deosil could also be a Golden Dawn disinformation as well. Sounds like a lot of theor publicly available info might be full of intentional mistakes only recognizable by those who actually understand what they're doing enough to correct them.
Another simpler view point: Earth is under our feet Water is to the West Air is above us Fire is to the East as the Sun Rises Excellent video your channel is great :)
I have water to the east and fire to the west though. Also, the north where I live is cold and dry and the south is hot and wet. Everything's all freaky, haha. But if you do go with "Air above, Earth beneath," perhaps we could also add that for many, the right hand is more active (like Fire) and the left hand is more passive (like Water)? But then that falls apart if someone is left-handed... but well... traditionally it would work... so looking at a compass rose would be like looking at yourself in a mirror. Traditionally speaking.
@@andrewjenkins9965 I enjoyed reading this response, I suppose the traditionalists would disagree. However progress is made from new ideas and thinking outside the square or circle. Especially when inherited from the same Orders.
I would assume that what allows the banishing to take effect is what has the greater impact, rather than having a specific mystical system's language fully decoded. (Though clearly it would help one understand what others have found to be functional, especially in social groups.) I don't know if the G.'.D.'. are blinding here, even though they are elsewhere. Even if they are, though, I think this is a historical discussion (probably with no ultimate answer) -- moreso than a magickal mistake. Air and water are close to each other in their natures chemically, so it makes sense that they have an odd overlap in the way we perceive them metaphorically. I've noticed a symbolic tie like this between the Earth element and Geburah (which is attributed to Fire) and it took some time to realize that there's some esoteric idea playing behind that, which I can only describe well through allegory or mythology, and then after show my work with the correspondences. I've assumed from my own limited experience that the Jewish Kabbalistic tradition is not perfect or absolute anymore than any of the Christian or pagan (etc.) mysticism. I personally see them as relative to one another, but not required to be identical to be functional. Different correspondences might occur in different sequences depending on the system, observable by initiates of a certain type, which varies based on the group. The alchemy of it comes from seeing combinations take on functions and attractions and repulsions, like chemistry, rather than clinging onto terms alone for single correspondences in hopes that one is the most correct. Aquarius can be water or air, or both, and reveal different ideas and functions from however it's described by a person with experience in its occult meanings. Someone could even describe "Aquarius" without using that term or knowing anything about astrology, based on their own mystical experience, and find later that they had described Aquarius, when compared to western systems. I could be wrong, of course, but considering where the inner work takes place, everyone's code will be unique to them in the way genetics are unique. Based on the combinations of the number 4, and working with a set of 23, or the way culture and time of birth have a variety of expressions for similar underlying human structures. Your mystical genotype is determined by how, where, and when you grew up, and experience obtained along the way. The phenotype is how it gets expressed. I have four magickal weapons sitting behind me that are not just a disk, sword, cup, and wand. But because I encountered G.'.D.'. directly before studying Freemasonry, yet grew up inundated by Masonry through my religion of birth, I have adapted my weapons (tools of Masonry) to functions both symbolic and operative. They never remain totally consistent with any single system, instead they have a magickal infrastructure (genotype) of *influence* and a physical or astral expression (phenotype). I have a set of 4 magickal weapons for symbolic musical work, and then a different 4 for operative musical work, and laying them out before I work allows for easier access to the automatic experiences of trance, and to make records. Symbolic (not all playable), but having Familiar correspondences to my own experience, and not by choice but by divination (I like plenty of other things besides the mainstream art mentioned, but they have massive childhood influence) :: a yellow flute, sword / air - "Harry Potter" a red violin, wand / fire - "The Red Violin" a blue ocarina, cup / water - "Zelda" a black piano (organ), disk / earth - "Phantom of the Opera" To make an operative session of music I have to be more fluid but still have everything laid out before I start, and not explicitly in the 4 directions, but in 4 specific places at least (functional) :: Air - notebook (notation software) Fire - pen (mouse & computer keyboard) Water - digital piano (+ guitar, etc.) Earth - digital recording device (or DAW interface like Garageband) The language chosen has to be consistent for it to be mnemonic and geometrical, and has to be tied together with a golden string that triangulates actual experience, or so it appears. That seems to be the mechanical demand of what's being called magick, if you want it to translate from the mystical experiences like trance or potion use. So if you can "show your work" frankly, as King Chief has, and know the result sought by the act, you could perform a banishing using a simple and personalized system. It may work much better when you enter into a mystical state than something too esoteric and complex, because it's Familiar to you and has the charge of your emotions and memories and desires already. That's what I've seen from it anyway. Apologies for my long essay. Enjoying this topic, can't help myself. Thanks for all the other thoughts bouncing around in here too.
Found another video which explains why that particular order of the cardinals Eeast West South & North, and their specific corespondent Elements. In the East (Air) where the Sun rises, everything begins with thoughts and with a perspective. South (Fire) is our passion, motivation > Action. West (Water) we add emotions, our subconscious to our thoughts and actions. North (Earth) the plane of manifestation... where everything is comprised by the three previous Elements (Air, Fire,Water = thoughts, action, emotions). That's how we impragnate your unconscious. Some mistake Azimuth with North and South with Nadir. Please don't take it wrong, it's just another opinion I've found online. Love & Light! :) @
I’m a Tibetan Practitioner who reads tarot and finally decided that I needed to learn more about ritual magic in the Western traditions. The first thing I noticed about the LBRP is that it’s essentially a mandala, which is what we also use for creating sacred space and for invoking the Yidam deity or deities with whom we work. I loved this video and the logical, rational way in which it comes together. Loving your channel and videos, too. You’re very accessible and down to earth. Thank you. 🙏♥️🌈
Hi Denis, I am back watching this as I just came to that part in the book "Archangels of Magick" yesterday. I recalled you had a video, or 2 about this so wanted your ( awesome) perspective again.... Before I watch the rest of your video here, I must tell you, I performed the LBRP this morning with Damon Brands Archangel recommendations, and I literally felt a buzz of energy around me when I finished it. I have NEVER experienced that before with the GDawn version, wow !!! Thanks again for the videos my friend !
Im confused now. Ill have rewatch several times. So is there a, "CORRECT" way? Or does it depend on the affiliation to a certain group? Or on the result we are trying to accomplish? Forgive my ignorance, im am looking into practicing. I really appreciate your videos.Thank you in advance
When I started practising 20 years ago, with no real guidance other than rather poor Wiccan-based books, I intuitively did it exactly as you explain here. It was so logical for me, the earth is below me, the air above me, in the west the Atlantic (I‘m German) and in the east the sun rises. Then I learned the Golden Dawn variation and it never made sense, never felt right. Thank you for this video, it has given me the confidence to stick with my intuitive and apparently historically correct variation, now also with the background knowledge to confirm my intuition!
Your observations about zodiacal signs makes sense and might be the reason why I've always had difficulties with astrology. What u noticed would impact tarot as well, in particular court cards
Finding "BLINDS" and descrambling them is not the least bit "heretical" - it is right on the right path. Superb analysis. So much crap on youtube - but NOT HERE - really first class teachings.
It may be just a feeling, but i believe in the perfect system, that it has been discovered and is a process of uncovering and hemming out the patterns is part of the initiation process. A system where the pentagram, the elements, the angels, the planets, the zodiac, , the tree of life, the 12 laws, the tarot, and Hebrew letters all fit perfectly together, in ritual, symbol, and understanding. Your lectures help in moving the journey forward. Thanks for the video, its great!
I’m so glad I have found your channel recently. I’ve been marathoning it for days. But I have to say this video has absolutely blown me away. I’ve never questioned the LBRP before but your research and conclusions seem absolutely spot on. You may have just began a change in how the LBRP will be performed for future generations. I know I will be trying it out very soon. Thank you so much for sharing your research and wisdom.
It feels like you've cracked the code with this one! It makes so much sense to invoke in an order and banish in an order rather than just using the same formula for both with a slight alteration to the pentagrams however, i still believe that it's the intention and will of the individual that matters most rather than where everything is. For me directionality is based upon the physical directionality of the practitioner for instance i live in england by the seaside on the west (water), south would be the equator (fire), north would be the arctic and if we think of the scottish highlands (earth) and east would be the the air as i have read somewhere that the sun rising relates to the emanation of spirit into matter and the beginning of consciousness as air is sometimes referred to the element of spirit and higher consciousness and if we think of the east its known for its typhoons. The LBRP is about our physicality and what is in our immediate environment. It's important to experiment with what works better for you and your intuition and true will are obviously guiding you in the right direction (pardon the pun.) In magick there are really no rules accept for will power, intention, energy manipulation and belief. I will try this method out myself soon!!
Symbols/Pictures always reveal the secrets that words hide. This is great insight. Capricorn- the sea goat Aquarius - the water bearer Pisces - the fish
If I may throw my two cents in, I've yet to practice the LBRP I've only started working with angels in a traditional/formal way recently (opposed to folk methods) But I have invoked elemental energies from the four directions, and my intuitive understanding is this. The Golden Dawn method works good for me considering where i live (pacific northwest USA) but I've spoken with magicians on the East Coast USA that have more success ascribing water to the East and air to the West because geographically that is what's accurate to them. Working with intelligence's like Angels is a more complicated matter then elemental energies but my experience is that the geography in which you practice plays into it as well. Either way great video! I'm going to try the non-Golden Dawn way for Elements and the LBRP once I've worked up to it. Definitely saving this one for further research.
This is the system I use! After a lot of research and meditation, this seems the most intuitive to me. I've looked around l and asked on Reddit, but I hadn't found a lot of validation for it. I'm so glad I watched this video. I really feel like my intuitions are confirmed
First of all, thank you for your great videos. I might experiment with your arrangement. I just wanted to point out that the Golden Dawn was just using the elemental associations that correspond with the astrological triplicities used by Vettius Valens (120 - c. 175 CE), which is the system that became most widespread in the Middle Ages. However, not everybody associated the triplicities with the elements in the ancient world. There is an article on this available for free on internet: Chris Brennan, “The Planetary Joys and the Origins of the Significations of the Houses and Triplicities,” , Vol. 42, No. 1, April 2013.
There is an ancient precident for doing your astrological triplicities by season, however it is a lil different from your interpretation. it'd be, starting in the fall: Autumn - Earth - Libra, Scorpio. Sagittarius (dry becoming cold) Winter - Water - Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces (cold becoming wet) Spring - Air - Aries, Taurus, Gemini (wet becoming hot) Summer - Fire - Cancer, Leo, Virgo (hot becoming dry) Hope this helps (this also means that each sign has two elements attributed to them)
I don't perform LBRP , since I don't belong to any of the off shoots of the Gold Dawn crowd, but in hermetic practice the order is the same as the historical , see Corpus Hermeticum libellus 1 where they are list from the gross to the lighter form of matter. What ever practice , your "new" version makes more sense. Thanks for the video.
An excellent video Dennis. I concur with your reversal of Uriel and Raphael, something about Uriel in the North wasn't sitting right with me. Now even the basic sensibility of "sky (Air) is up and ground (Earth) is down" is satisfied. Well done!
But I feel less certain about your astrology conclusions. I also thought it was odd that Scorpio is water. Scorpions live in the desert which is dry, not wet. Then I discovered that there were large, prehistoric scorpions, a metre long, that lived in the ocean. They were sea-going, similar to large crabs or lobsters or crayfish, which explains it. Aquarius at first glance is water, but because he is a water CARRIER, he is Air. Water is carried up in the air.
That’s what I thought too The eagle and Phoenix also represent scorpio and have nothing to do with water cause Scorpio also means transformation and that’s what the 8th house is all about
@@declan3906 i find that a much more likely reason than the people who set up the connections in astrological signs knowing about sea scorpions that are millions upon millions of years old
Agreed, this video is awesome but the astrological analysis was incorrect. Scorpio is water because it's deep and profound AF. Aries people usually are MUCH more "fiery" or energetic than Taurus (I speak this as a Taurus) and Gemini would never be Earth lol, they're PURE air, you can almost feel the element in them. Anyone that knows a bunch of people from these signs knows all of this easily.
This is literally about what subtlties I've noticed doing the LBRP as I've been doing it the GD way. However I do notice when I start Michaels fire energy seems to want to "jump ahead" when I am calling Raphael. So much so it makes me laugh and I think "hold your horses, Michael" but this might explain why I've noticed this happening. Very interesting!
I have the same experience with Michael coming to my mind first when I call the angel to the east and it just happens, especially with the colour correspondence; red always jumps out first for me.
Me too. I started doing LPR a couple weeks ago. Maybe it's the R in Raphael that makes me associate it with red? But that's the color that I envision first whenever I'm doing the ritual. It hasn't changed.
Hermetic Kitsune Speaking of Koetting. Is he real or a phony? I’m honestly having a hard time discerning that. I’ve watched his videos just recently and can’t decide
@@cursedgypsy3131 If you want something true watch Glitch Bottle, Damien Echols, Arith Harger, Witches & Wine, What Magic is this?, The Nemeton... Maybe there are others, but between them you'll be directed to the real deal.
@@cursedgypsy3131 Honestly I'd just work on meditation and getting that Clairaudio up. Learn from the spirits themselves. Most of the Judeo Christian deities are thought forms. If they can't give you their Annunaki Manifestation. You are not talking to a divine being. Eclos work is good cause he ties the Angels to them. Only thing I disagree with is he says Lord Enlil is Yahweh. Enlil got booted out of Heaven for raping girls and stuff. He's definitely King Baal. Marduck is Yahweh and Anu is Supreme God EL
Thank you so much for this! I'm new to this space. This information makes sense how it was presented. I appreciate the order and logic of the break down. Blessing and thank you again!
Thank you for sharing your findings. I have been doing the LBRP for about a month now to positive results. I tried your version today and almost instantly I felt more drained mentally and physically than I have felt in a very long time. It has lasted all day and is quite shocking.
Do you mean my version of banishing Vs my version of invoking? Or my version of banishing vs the GD version of banishing? When you say "banishing however had the opposite effect", which version of banishing do you mean?
@FoolishFishBooks so Invoking using israels method fills my mind with thoughts and makes me hyper productive, albeit a bit of a passenger to my life. I can never sleep with it because the thoughts don't stop. I have to banish to sleep. Yesterday Invoking using your method I felt like life was drained! I was exhausted mentally and physically all day. It was scary. I may have did something incorrectly during Invoking. Banishing using your method was profound, the effects were instant! I'm just trying to understand why I began feeling the "presence" with it so strongly. It's a feeling of someone watching me with a light mind, slight out of body feeling. Thank you!!!
Excellent video! We have come to the same conclusion about the LBRP. However unsurprisingly, others are not too thrilled with our elaboration. Anyways really enjoyed your explanation and it's nice to see a true seeker of wisdom.
Wow. This makes so much sense. I'm still relatively new to the western traditions, but I did think it's highly possible that some published works would have intentional mistakes in them. Secrecy was a huge part of it all and even Regardie may have respected this when publishing these secrets, inserting a few changes here and there. Possibly for the good of the Solitary Practitioner, too much power straight away could go wrong I suppose. The published version does work but perhaps even neophytes were mislead until they reached the inner order and then were given the more powerful and historically accurate versions, unless they were exceptional and discovered this "purposeful blind" themselves. Either way, I do suppose that eventual personalised practice after a bit of experimentation and using what applies to one personally may yield more powerful results. The entities themselves understand what someone is trying to accomplish, and in most cases are eager to help. They probably won't mind too much if one were to call them to different positions, and give as much power to it as they can. But as we know, magick is about what we ourselves put into it, so if in ones practice and visualisation a certain way feels more powerful, it probably is for that person.
This feel right. The different directions of invoking different elements always didn't make sense to me. It was hard to remember there was no reason or order to it. But now watching this, I feel like this is right. There is now a purpose in each movement in direction. Thank you.
Another thing. The different states of temperature on the elements in the correct way also refer to the water cycle, and how water transmutes into different states from liquid to gas to being absorbed by the earth, then burning when the earth is too dry like with wild fires. The natural state and cycle of the earth.
First let me thank You for your lovely work and uploads. Appreciate you greatly. I'm an Aquarian and know quite a few Aquarians as well. And as backwards as it may first seem, let me assure You that Aquarius is most definitely not a water sign. We are far more cerebral and analytical (air) than we are emotional (water). All my friends born of water signs have emotions as their compass, strength and weakness. But every Aquarian I know, including myself, has rather had to work quite hard to get out of our heads and learn to respect emotions. To the analytical Aquarian, being run by emotions is not only unreliable but quite off putting and unsophisticated. It's not uncommon for the Aquarian to secretly frown and look down upon those who let their emotions overrule their intellect. The Aquarian personality* wouldn't allow itself to be swept away in some wave of feelings without always keeping a keen eye on what's going on and why, while the mind at the same time interprets, labels and comments on the experience. We have a tendency to overvalue the mind, and have to make a conscious effort to connect with and embrace our heart. Don't get me wrong - we may come off as "free spirited," intuitive, fluid, artistic and visionary, but as soon as someone gives us drama, the cold, analytical, cerebral and dissecting wall comes down. For a typical Aquarian personality* to become whole, balanced, healthy and complete, we must first learn to put feelings in just as high regard as we do thoughts.
How deep does this wormhole go. All rituals are imprinting techniques. That is they are designed (created by humans and refined over time). Imprinting techniques to programme the nervous system. The ritual is the program or syntax to use the computing analogy. The data is all present but may be ordered in different ways. To achieve different outputs, results, information etc. All human experience is mediated via the nervous system and the analysis of the output/result is knowledge of a sort but not truth. Truth exists on a spectrum and is very tricky to pin down (think of Heisenberg’s uncertainty principal, Schrodingers cat) just like establishing the location of an electron, the double slit experiment. Just as no two astrophysicists can agree on the age of the Universe, put two magicians in a room and watch the sparks fly. "We place no reliance on virgin or pigeon; our Method is Science, our Aim is Religion."
How much greater will your confidence in the method be, when borne by fact, not rote or superstition? How much more efficient when the data is ordered and encoded correctly?
We can't expect people from centuries ago to know everything even if they were intelligent. Theres always room for error or missing information need to get the correct answers to questions. Even in science theres always new information that changes things. We need to be open to changing and adapting things for the better. People now a days a smarter than 100 years ago and the same is for us, people will find flaws in our work because they have more intelligence and more information to work with.
@@betzyberumen6910 As well as new methods developed or changes upon on old ones, Gom is putting quality content(methods) that is congruent to our times we live in yet based on authentic kabbalah . Pathworking is getting more popular as well
In addition, the Golden Dawn and many other magick societies were known for placing blinds on their written knowledge to hide the truth, so that magickal secrets would not be revealed
Thank you. I've had to listen to this 2x and a 3rd, and send it to my 5th degree friend. Really important! This changes Everything ⚡ Thank you. Appreciate you so much🎄
Ah glad to help! I hope you saw the FAQ in the description, I now keep Michael in the South and Uriel in the north (see FAQ). I'll be doing a full demonstration and analysis on Saturday.
When I began performing the LBRP it never felt right that AIR should be in the East. I then read an article by Michael Osiris Snuffin, on his New Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram, which led me to change the order of the LBRP to my own version. And came up with East -Fire-Michael South-Air-Gabriel West-Water-Raphael and North-Earth-Auriel. Until I listened to Rav Dror sing a Jewish prayer. Placing East-Michael and this surprised me how close I was in correctly changing the order. This shocked me because the very same week before I listened to the Jewish Prayer. I was busy thinking of going back and looking at the order. And here I am on your video which is proof enough that Michael Osiris Snuffin was correct about the Golden Dawn blinds. Lastly your explaination on how draw the invoking and banishing of the pentagrams. Personally I think you are 100% correct. Thank You. I learned a lot from your videos
This makes a lot of sense from my point of view. I work with Soma-Energetic sound healing Tuning Forks. One set of such tools is the DNA/RNA tuning forks set. It consists of a Pineal Gland tuning forks + 6 Archangel DNA/RNA forks. For DNA ; Raphael is associated with Cytosine (C). Uriel is associated with Guanine (G). Michael is associated with Adenine (A). Gabriel is associated with Thymine (T). For RNA; Metratron is associated with Uracil. Sandalphon is associated with Phenilalanine. The DNA structure consists of pairs: Cytosine only bonds with Guanine - Adenine only bonds with Thymine. This version of the LBRP makes more sense on an alchemical-opposites stand-point. Thank you,
This was a super insightful video and one of the best I've seen on LBRP, which answered many questions. Never understood previously GD's version of drawing the banishing and invoking pentagram - now I think that it definitely is just a thing they used to throw newcomers off lol. Also this explains why I've always felt hot flashes/waves of heat when invoking Raphael. Great video!
Yet again, finding the answer to a question that just jumped in my head out of nowhere... I also thought of that order of the elements is such Earth - Water - Air - Fire based on laws of physic where heat grants that same order to the elements. Cold mater is hard (earth) then it becomes warmer and melts to form a liquid (water), then it becomes hotter to form a gas (air) and finally it becomes plasma (fire). Interesting stuff.. :)
This is almost a game stopper for consideration, possibly a game changer. I have always practiced starting in and facing the east (Air) with Raphael, if what you propose is true, my starting point has been the element of fire. I really need to investigate much further. Just for your reference, in the book “The Sacred Magic of Ancient Egypt”, by Rosemary Clark, in the spiritual consecration rituals of Temples, ( starting @ page 69 ) invocation of the elemental forces prior to physical Temple construction, was described as follows: (North •Earth•Daumutef), (East•Fire•Qebsenuf], (South•Water•Haapi) and (West•Air•Imset) These elemental directions were described by the ancient Egyptian culture, and was practiced for thousands of years… You may be onto something profound. As always I appreciate your content.
I’d been questioning format as I kept desiring to state earth in the south for whatever reason. I shrugged it off and wrote out the g.d way for my b.o.s then found this shortly after. Thank you so much for your descriptive detailing. I am one who strives to develop understanding via an encompassment of knowledge and application so the descriptive information is well received. Thank you again 😊
Interesting material to do my own research on and contemplate. Thanks for shaking things up a bit. I am curious to see how this dust will settle in my mind. Great vid!
Nice breakdown. If you look at it in terms of energy and flow, it would absolutely make sense to start from the lowest vibrational frequency to the highest, earth(solid)-water(liquid)-air(gas)-fire(plasma)
I was really following along, nodding, until you got to the zodiac. I want to scream "no"as it goes against everything I've learned but...damnit, I have to say what you pointed out is amazing. Serious food for thought, no matter how uncomfortable it makes me!
The Zodiac thing gets me. As an Aries with a Capricorn stellium, I'm primarily Earth and Air, but I feel you may be on to something as I make more sense as Earth and Water. Psychic, Grounded, imaginative, heart centered. I'm neither ambitious nor restless, so....
Hi George, Thanks for the support! :D So in the end, my LBRP is now back to being deceptively similar to the GD version, only the elemental attributions of the East and South have changed, as I now have Fire in the East with the Rising Sun, and Raphael holding the Rod of Asclepius, and no longer the Caduceus of Hermes, and robed in Red, and Michael in the South is now Air for me, with Yellow robes and Michael's sword of information coming out of his mouth, pure gnosis.
I did the LBRP in the manner you suggested and I agree it is more powerful. I greatly appreciate this video and your channel for this alternate method of the LBRP. This will be my preferred method from now on.
Thank you so much for this amazing presentation FF. I have watched it about 10 times, taken notes an had a practice or 2 LBRPs. I m still a relative newbie so I have to let it sink in a bit. If nothing else I am making stronger connections between the Angels, names of God and elements, but seriously, this a fascinating discovery. Drawing the Invoking Pentagrams the way you have shown here makes perfect sense, even to my limited knowledge. Thank you once again. 🙏
Very interesting. I think the GD version is ingrained in my mind so it might be hard to try another version, but that makes a lot of sense. Might give it a try, see how it feels later :)
This is such a perplexing yet fascinating topic which I personally am still grappling with. As someone who lives in the Southern Hemisphere I've often struggled with the Zodiac which follows the Northern Hemisphere seasons. The elemental directions pose a similar dilemma. In order for my mind to make more sense of it I tried to experiment with thinking about it in relation to our position on the globe. I like the following... The Sun (fire, day, summer, dry, hot) will always rise in the East and set in the West with the Moon (water, night, winter, cold, wet) regardless of which hemisphere you live in. In the Northern Hemisphere the Sun moves towards the South (air, hot, wet, equatorial) bringing in Autumn and back to the North (earth, cold, dry, polar) bringing in Spring, therefore Earth in the North and Air in the South. However in the Southern Hemipshere the Sun moves towards the North (air, hot, wet, equatorial) bringing in Autumn and back to the South (earth, cold, dry, polar) bringing in Spring, therefore Air should be in the North and Earth in the South. Maybe many of these models work far better when we transpose them from 2D into 3D.
Puzzling over this a bit @Foolish Fish and would like your perspective. A more naturalistic orientation that also meets your schema seems to be Earth>South / Air>North / Fire>West / Water>East. This seems to maintain polarity while keeping the Earth below us, as it it should be, the air above Earth as it is from our place. From western perspectives as you move north-east it becomes colder and wetter and when you move south-west it becomes hotter and dryer.
To me, this video makes more sense that your other videos. I know that when I do the LBRP with Golden Dawn version, I felt something was off. Then, I changed it to the version mentioned by Damon Brand and somehow the energy feels right. I'd like to try this version you mentioned, the whole process makes sense to me.
It gets even crazier when you think about Eastern beliefs like chakra, color, and vibrations. Scorpio is associated with root chakra, color red, and low vibrations. I believe Scorpio are considered water because we are very emotional but keep it hidden. Still waters run deep. A scorpion will sting itself to death before succumbing to defeat. Similar to how Scorpios keep everything inside. Air signs are seen as more logical. Fire signs seen as aggressive, earth signs as stable and grounded. Anyway, interesting video!
yeah, it's on purpose you have to read them 1000's of times to see the hidden picture or meditate upon them! do not make a revolution please you're going to confuse the begginers and yourselves!
Greetings Sir, Thank You for sharing this abundantly insightful discovery! Following simple logic and Aristotle's elemental diagram, everything in your rite makes perfect sense. Considering that to a great extent, "invocations" and "banishings" really are tunning in and out to a specific force or principle, I kinda see your version as resembling some of a "volume knob." You turn it in one direction to lower the volume, i.e., tune in/invoke. And then you do the opposite to tune out; the Earth being the lowest, whereas Fire the highest. Placing Fire and Water on one line while Air and Earth on the other also matches with HOGD's Elemental Equilibration rite. The same applies to the Earth and Malkuth gestures in your QC. While I definitely agree that the Taurus/Ox seems "fierier" than the Ram, it's also strongly associated with fertility, labor, and stability - all of which are Earth qualities. Speaking of Fire, you regard my Earth sign as Fiery. However, I can assure you that though it likely would be awesome otherwise, that really isn't the case, and I'm pretty earthy and materialistic. In fact, based on personal experience, I can say that all zodiacal descriptions in the Cicero's Self-Initiation Into The GD perfectly match the characters of all people I know the signs of. That includes my parents, a bunch of friends, and a former girlfriend... As long as for the alchemical eagle of distillation (as it's called in GD’s p. 362), I think it has a lot to do with the fact that biologically birds evolved from fish... Placing water above the Earth in the tree diagram perfectly matches putting Fire in the east and Air in the south. Though it definitely makes sense in physics, I don't think it does in terms of what Air and Water represent in the human psyche. But that's just my personal (ignorant) opinion. Plus, in the traditional GD way, which is also adopted by many Thelemites, you have the two "parent" elements above the two children. Yet, a fact remains that Air is considered a reconciler between water and Fire. Thus it makes sense to be right between them. Or doesn't it? As the invocation says: "So, that every spirit upon the earth and under the earth, on dry land, and in the water, of whirling air and of rushing fire..." Something to clarify is that this isn't a critique in any shape or form. Obviously, your mileage/proficiency is a lot higher than mine. I wonder whether you consider the possibility of having 4 different elemental pentagrams (your custom version) as being the root cause of mobilizing more power? In the past, I found an article outlining LRP for each element; the pentagrams follow GD's rule: invoke toward, banish from. I experimented with it. What do you know... I excreted quite a bit of power. In fact, I had some difficulties controlling that, if performing some of those rites and not closing them with a standard LBRP, to let some of the energy stay with me throughout the day. Interestingly, one of those massively helped me in quitting coffee after abusing the crap out of it for 20+ years. I achieved that in two days with no withdrawal. Another I wonder is whether you re-arranged your entire Pentagram Formula's directions, including GIRP and SIRP. Again as outlined by the GD, these can mobilize pretty substantial amounts of power. Actually, the second is pretty unmatched, but that's just how I feel based on first hand experimentations. Lastly, I also wonder about GD's reason for swapping the places of those elements; whether it's because of some "secret," or is it to make all components of their system work together coherently. I'll be happy if you let me know your thoughts on all those subjects. Sorry for the long comment. You're hands down the best occult channel. I admire your library, hoping to read even half of the books you already own! Stay Safe and Happy Practicing! POTB
Thanks for the mention in todays video.. I hadn't considered how the elements share attributes with the one next to it.. I also do the. LBRP the way you just changed to..We should talk sometime.. there are other blinds you might wish to explore for the mysteries hides her secrets well.. Feel free to email me if ever want to talk Great video! Thanks again.
Thanks again for the heads up. As usual, I had to go the long way about accepting that nugget, I can't go incorporating the advice of all the random strangers who watch my videos ;) But I was reading a book that suggested that Autumn was the season attributed to Water, and I just blew up. No! I can't take any more of this nonsense XD SO I started researching the classical attributions of the seasons, and that was the entrance to the rabbit hole. So then I was like: wait that was this one person who left an interesting comment on my video about the four worlds... so there you go. I've sent you an email now, so feel free to remove your email address from public view ;)
I'm new to Ceremonial Magik so I'm not 100 percent committed to one way or another. I actually just started the LBRP and LIRP along with the Quabilistic cross at the beginning and end of the ceremony. Thank you for your discovery.
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! Yes, it's not always the easiest thing, keeping everyone satisfied 😉 Thanks for taking the time to watch and for your kind words! 😊
I suspected this but you confirmed it. Thank you. Look at Chapter 4 of the doctrine and ritual of high magic (Levi)… he puts earth in south, air in north, but fire in west with water in east.
Oh man. Just when I thought I was getting the LBRP down pat the complication factor has been raised dramatically :P I'll have to think a lot more on this as from all you say in this video this seems WAY more correct.
![Heretic LBRP Recap (FAQ) [Esoteric Saturdays]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/USOiVzB7I4I/mqdefault.jpg)
![Heretic LBRP Recap (FAQ) [Esoteric Saturdays]](/img/tr.png)
![What Is Magick? [Esoteric Saturdays]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kx8HjyQV2Hc/mqdefault.jpg)
![Pentagrams, the LBRP, and a Controversial Question [Esoteric Saturdays]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/x2m0FAyUmao/mqdefault.jpg)
![Magickal Self-Care [Esoteric Saturdays]](/img/n.gif)
LBRP FAQ:
Q: *Why do you use a different pentagram direction from the one recommended by the Golden Dawn?*
A: ua-cam.com/video/x2m0FAyUmao/v-deo.html
Q: *Why do you have Fire in the East?*
A: (this video) ua-cam.com/video/A_81XGIIG14/v-deo.html
Q: *Why do you attribute Fire to Raphael and Air to Michael?*
A: ua-cam.com/video/gO5oUK-nhyc/v-deo.html
Q: *Why do you keep Air in the South and Earth in the North after all?*
A: Community Post: ua-cam.com/users/postUgzz1UmhdkU6tVVgxER4AaABCQ
The fire to Raphael (holding a Caduceus aka wand) and air to Michael holding a sword lines up nicely with the tarot. I think i remember Stephen Skinner saying for the LRP he uses wand for air and sword for fire, for what i imagine are similar reasons. I keep them as is which is working for me, but do what thou wilt.
@@zeoskydancer9574 exactly! 93! 😄
@@FoolishFishBooks 93/93
Michael being Air and Raphael being fire makes sense because of who their counterparts are. It never made sense to me that Azazel was fire so was Michael when Azazels Angelic counterpart is Raphael. The same is for Michael and Samael. They are opposites yet two different elements
Your first clue should have been 4th grade science class IMO. Solid, Liquid, Gas, Plasma. Earth, Water, Air, Fire.
It's the 4 states of matter in order of solidity/density.
Also, if this is a blinder, your thing about being incorrectly widdershins/deosil could also be a Golden Dawn disinformation as well. Sounds like a lot of theor publicly available info might be full of intentional mistakes only recognizable by those who actually understand what they're doing enough to correct them.
Another simpler view point:
Earth is under our feet
Water is to the West
Air is above us
Fire is to the East as the Sun Rises
Excellent video your channel is great :)
I have water to the east and fire to the west though. Also, the north where I live is cold and dry and the south is hot and wet. Everything's all freaky, haha.
But if you do go with "Air above, Earth beneath," perhaps we could also add that for many, the right hand is more active (like Fire) and the left hand is more passive (like Water)? But then that falls apart if someone is left-handed... but well... traditionally it would work... so looking at a compass rose would be like looking at yourself in a mirror. Traditionally speaking.
@@andrewjenkins9965 I enjoyed reading this response, I suppose the traditionalists would disagree. However progress is made from new ideas and thinking outside the square or circle. Especially when inherited from the same Orders.
I agree, fire east for sun rise, that's the way I feel about it too.
I would assume that what allows the banishing to take effect is what has the greater impact, rather than having a specific mystical system's language fully decoded. (Though clearly it would help one understand what others have found to be functional, especially in social groups.)
I don't know if the G.'.D.'. are blinding here, even though they are elsewhere. Even if they are, though, I think this is a historical discussion (probably with no ultimate answer) -- moreso than a magickal mistake.
Air and water are close to each other in their natures chemically, so it makes sense that they have an odd overlap in the way we perceive them metaphorically. I've noticed a symbolic tie like this between the Earth element and Geburah (which is attributed to Fire) and it took some time to realize that there's some esoteric idea playing behind that, which I can only describe well through allegory or mythology, and then after show my work with the correspondences.
I've assumed from my own limited experience that the Jewish Kabbalistic tradition is not perfect or absolute anymore than any of the Christian or pagan (etc.) mysticism. I personally see them as relative to one another, but not required to be identical to be functional.
Different correspondences might occur in different sequences depending on the system, observable by initiates of a certain type, which varies based on the group. The alchemy of it comes from seeing combinations take on functions and attractions and repulsions, like chemistry, rather than clinging onto terms alone for single correspondences in hopes that one is the most correct.
Aquarius can be water or air, or both, and reveal different ideas and functions from however it's described by a person with experience in its occult meanings.
Someone could even describe "Aquarius" without using that term or knowing anything about astrology, based on their own mystical experience, and find later that they had described Aquarius, when compared to western systems.
I could be wrong, of course, but considering where the inner work takes place, everyone's code will be unique to them in the way genetics are unique.
Based on the combinations of the number 4, and working with a set of 23, or the way culture and time of birth have a variety of expressions for similar underlying human structures.
Your mystical genotype is determined by how, where, and when you grew up, and experience obtained along the way. The phenotype is how it gets expressed.
I have four magickal weapons sitting behind me that are not just a disk, sword, cup, and wand. But because I encountered G.'.D.'. directly before studying Freemasonry, yet grew up inundated by Masonry through my religion of birth, I have adapted my weapons (tools of Masonry) to functions both symbolic and operative. They never remain totally consistent with any single system, instead they have a magickal infrastructure (genotype) of *influence* and a physical or astral expression (phenotype).
I have a set of 4 magickal weapons for symbolic musical work, and then a different 4 for operative musical work, and laying them out before I work allows for easier access to the automatic experiences of trance, and to make records.
Symbolic (not all playable), but having Familiar correspondences to my own experience, and not by choice but by divination (I like plenty of other things besides the mainstream art mentioned, but they have massive childhood influence) ::
a yellow flute, sword / air - "Harry Potter"
a red violin, wand / fire - "The Red Violin"
a blue ocarina, cup / water - "Zelda"
a black piano (organ), disk / earth - "Phantom of the Opera"
To make an operative session of music I have to be more fluid but still have everything laid out before I start, and not explicitly in the 4 directions, but in 4 specific places at least (functional) ::
Air - notebook (notation software)
Fire - pen (mouse & computer keyboard)
Water - digital piano (+ guitar, etc.)
Earth - digital recording device (or DAW interface like Garageband)
The language chosen has to be consistent for it to be mnemonic and geometrical, and has to be tied together with a golden string that triangulates actual experience, or so it appears. That seems to be the mechanical demand of what's being called magick, if you want it to translate from the mystical experiences like trance or potion use.
So if you can "show your work" frankly, as King Chief has, and know the result sought by the act, you could perform a banishing using a simple and personalized system. It may work much better when you enter into a mystical state than something too esoteric and complex, because it's Familiar to you and has the charge of your emotions and memories and desires already. That's what I've seen from it anyway.
Apologies for my long essay. Enjoying this topic, can't help myself.
Thanks for all the other thoughts bouncing around in here too.
Found another video which explains why that particular order of the cardinals Eeast West South & North, and their specific corespondent Elements. In the East (Air) where the Sun rises, everything begins with thoughts and with a perspective. South (Fire) is our passion, motivation > Action. West (Water) we add emotions, our subconscious to our thoughts and actions. North (Earth) the plane of manifestation... where everything is comprised by the three previous Elements (Air, Fire,Water = thoughts, action, emotions). That's how we impragnate your unconscious. Some mistake Azimuth with North and South with Nadir. Please don't take it wrong, it's just another opinion I've found online. Love & Light! :)
@
I’m a Tibetan Practitioner who reads tarot and finally decided that I needed to learn more about ritual magic in the Western traditions. The first thing I noticed about the LBRP is that it’s essentially a mandala, which is what we also use for creating sacred space and for invoking the Yidam deity or deities with whom we work. I loved this video and the logical, rational way in which it comes together. Loving your channel and videos, too. You’re very accessible and down to earth. Thank you. 🙏♥️🌈
Hi Denis, I am back watching this as I just came to that part in the book "Archangels of Magick" yesterday. I recalled you had a video, or 2 about this so wanted your ( awesome) perspective again.... Before I watch the rest of your video here, I must tell you, I performed the LBRP this morning with Damon Brands Archangel recommendations, and I literally felt a buzz of energy around me when I finished it. I have NEVER experienced that before with the GDawn version, wow !!! Thanks again for the videos my friend !
This is blowing my mind. Makes sense!
So does mine!!
Im confused now. Ill have rewatch several times. So is there a, "CORRECT" way? Or does it depend on the affiliation to a certain group? Or on the result we are trying to accomplish? Forgive my ignorance, im am looking into practicing. I really appreciate your videos.Thank you in advance
I feel like I'll come back to this video many times.
I'm so glad you consider it useful! 😊
Me too
Here for the 3rd time lol.
@@RayoAtra 😅❤️ full demonstration coming in Saturday.
Right?!?! I’m wishing he wrote an article or transcript now. There’s enough great information here to fill an entire journal.
When I started practising 20 years ago, with no real guidance other than rather poor Wiccan-based books, I intuitively did it exactly as you explain here. It was so logical for me, the earth is below me, the air above me, in the west the Atlantic (I‘m German) and in the east the sun rises.
Then I learned the Golden Dawn variation and it never made sense, never felt right.
Thank you for this video, it has given me the confidence to stick with my intuitive and apparently historically correct variation, now also with the background knowledge to confirm my intuition!
Your observations about zodiacal signs makes sense and might be the reason why I've always had difficulties with astrology. What u noticed would impact tarot as well, in particular court cards
Finding "BLINDS" and descrambling them is not the least bit "heretical" - it is right on the right path. Superb analysis. So much crap on youtube - but NOT HERE - really first class teachings.
Thank you for your candidness and honesty about what you learn. It is an exploration process we should all be on the journey of.
It may be just a feeling, but i believe in the perfect system, that it has been discovered and is a process of uncovering and hemming out the patterns is part of the initiation process.
A system where the pentagram, the elements, the angels, the planets, the zodiac, , the tree of life, the 12 laws, the tarot, and Hebrew letters all fit perfectly together, in ritual, symbol, and understanding.
Your lectures help in moving the journey forward.
Thanks for the video, its great!
I’m so glad I have found your channel recently. I’ve been marathoning it for days.
But I have to say this video has absolutely blown me away. I’ve never questioned the LBRP before but your research and conclusions seem absolutely spot on.
You may have just began a change in how the LBRP will be performed for future generations. I know I will be trying it out very soon.
Thank you so much for sharing your research and wisdom.
His videos are top notch.
It feels like you've cracked the code with this one! It makes so much sense to invoke in an order and banish in an order rather than just using the same formula for both with a slight alteration to the pentagrams however, i still believe that it's the intention and will of the individual that matters most rather than where everything is.
For me directionality is based upon the physical directionality of the practitioner for instance i live in england by the seaside on the west (water), south would be the equator (fire), north would be the arctic and if we think of the scottish highlands (earth) and east would be the the air as i have read somewhere that the sun rising relates to the emanation of spirit into matter and the beginning of consciousness as air is sometimes referred to the element of spirit and higher consciousness and if we think of the east its known for its typhoons. The LBRP is about our physicality and what is in our immediate environment.
It's important to experiment with what works better for you and your intuition and true will are obviously guiding you in the right direction (pardon the pun.) In magick there are really no rules accept for will power, intention, energy manipulation and belief. I will try this method out myself soon!!
Kinda hilarious so many need rituals to perform the most basic of the ethereal tasks.
Symbols/Pictures always reveal the secrets that words hide. This is great insight.
Capricorn- the sea goat
Aquarius - the water bearer
Pisces - the fish
If I may throw my two cents in, I've yet to practice the LBRP I've only started working with angels in a traditional/formal way recently (opposed to folk methods) But I have invoked elemental energies from the four directions, and my intuitive understanding is this. The Golden Dawn method works good for me considering where i live (pacific northwest USA) but I've spoken with magicians on the East Coast USA that have more success ascribing water to the East and air to the West because geographically that is what's accurate to them. Working with intelligence's like Angels is a more complicated matter then elemental energies but my experience is that the geography in which you practice plays into it as well. Either way great video! I'm going to try the non-Golden Dawn way for Elements and the LBRP once I've worked up to it. Definitely saving this one for further research.
This is the system I use! After a lot of research and meditation, this seems the most intuitive to me. I've looked around l and asked on Reddit, but I hadn't found a lot of validation for it. I'm so glad I watched this video. I really feel like my intuitions are confirmed
Thank you for unlocking this for us.
First of all, thank you for your great videos. I might experiment with your arrangement. I just wanted to point out that the Golden Dawn was just using the elemental associations that correspond with the astrological triplicities used by Vettius Valens (120 - c. 175 CE), which is the system that became most widespread in the Middle Ages. However, not everybody associated the triplicities with the elements in the ancient world. There is an article on this available for free on internet: Chris Brennan, “The Planetary Joys and the Origins of the Significations of the Houses and Triplicities,” , Vol. 42, No. 1, April 2013.
There is an ancient precident for doing your astrological triplicities by season, however it is a lil different from your interpretation. it'd be, starting in the fall:
Autumn - Earth - Libra, Scorpio. Sagittarius (dry becoming cold)
Winter - Water - Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces (cold becoming wet)
Spring - Air - Aries, Taurus, Gemini (wet becoming hot)
Summer - Fire - Cancer, Leo, Virgo (hot becoming dry)
Hope this helps (this also means that each sign has two elements attributed to them)
I don't perform LBRP , since I don't belong to any of the off shoots of the Gold Dawn crowd, but in hermetic practice the order is the same as the historical , see Corpus Hermeticum libellus 1 where they are list from the gross to the lighter form of matter. What ever practice , your "new" version makes more sense. Thanks for the video.
The first draft of the LBRP don't come from GD but from 18th century Rosicrucians. All that was built upon it was later additions.
An excellent video Dennis. I concur with your reversal of Uriel and Raphael, something about Uriel in the North wasn't sitting right with me. Now even the basic sensibility of "sky (Air) is up and ground (Earth) is down" is satisfied.
Well done!
oh my gosh. i love your mind. brilliant!
wow. my whole magical practice just got shook!
Not enough hearts in the device to show how much I love this one. Makes total sense to me.💜
But I feel less certain about your astrology conclusions. I also thought it was odd that Scorpio is water. Scorpions live in the desert which is dry, not wet. Then I discovered that there were large, prehistoric scorpions, a metre long, that lived in the ocean. They were sea-going, similar to large crabs or lobsters or crayfish, which explains it. Aquarius at first glance is water, but because he is a water CARRIER, he is Air. Water is carried up in the air.
Scorpions come out in the rain..
That’s what I thought too The eagle and Phoenix also represent scorpio and have nothing to do with water cause Scorpio also means transformation and that’s what the 8th house is all about
@@blacklight310 Scorpio didnt meant transformation back then. Thats a modern attribution.
@@declan3906 i find that a much more likely reason than the people who set up the connections in astrological signs knowing about sea scorpions that are millions upon millions of years old
Agreed, this video is awesome but the astrological analysis was incorrect. Scorpio is water because it's deep and profound AF. Aries people usually are MUCH more "fiery" or energetic than Taurus (I speak this as a Taurus) and Gemini would never be Earth lol, they're PURE air, you can almost feel the element in them. Anyone that knows a bunch of people from these signs knows all of this easily.
This is literally about what subtlties I've noticed doing the LBRP as I've been doing it the GD way. However I do notice when I start Michaels fire energy seems to want to "jump ahead" when I am calling Raphael. So much so it makes me laugh and I think "hold your horses, Michael" but this might explain why I've noticed this happening. Very interesting!
I have the same experience with Michael coming to my mind first when I call the angel to the east and it just happens, especially with the colour correspondence; red always jumps out first for me.
oh how strange this happens to me too!! I thought it was just because for some reason he's easier for me to visualise but perhaps there's more to it!
Michael IS kind of a rock star so
I've had this experience as well. Called Michael in the east; had to take a moment for repose
Me too. I started doing LPR a couple weeks ago. Maybe it's the R in Raphael that makes me associate it with red? But that's the color that I envision first whenever I'm doing the ritual. It hasn't changed.
Absolutely fantastic resource thank you for sharing, I'll be sure to give these changes a try.
Michael is historically at the right hand of god. Becoming a god is not just a Koetting meme, it is the intent of the circle.
Hermetic Kitsune Speaking of Koetting. Is he real or a phony? I’m honestly having a hard time discerning that. I’ve watched his videos just recently and can’t decide
@@cursedgypsy3131 If you want something true watch Glitch Bottle, Damien Echols, Arith Harger, Witches & Wine, What Magic is this?, The Nemeton... Maybe there are others, but between them you'll be directed to the real deal.
Xendrath cool thanks I watch his videos and wanted to hear from others there point of view asi keep hearing conflicted stories
Hermetic Kitsune thank you 😊 this is very helpful and thank you for taking the time in referring me to other helpful places I truly do appreciate it
@@cursedgypsy3131 Honestly I'd just work on meditation and getting that Clairaudio up. Learn from the spirits themselves. Most of the Judeo Christian deities are thought forms. If they can't give you their Annunaki Manifestation. You are not talking to a divine being. Eclos work is good cause he ties the Angels to them. Only thing I disagree with is he says Lord Enlil is Yahweh. Enlil got booted out of Heaven for raping girls and stuff. He's definitely King Baal. Marduck is Yahweh and Anu is Supreme God EL
Thank you so much for this! I'm new to this space. This information makes sense how it was presented. I appreciate the order and logic of the break down. Blessing and thank you again!
Fantastic
Thank you for sharing your findings. I have been doing the LBRP for about a month now to positive results. I tried your version today and almost instantly I felt more drained mentally and physically than I have felt in a very long time. It has lasted all day and is quite shocking.
Banishing however had the opposite effect, I instantly felt the "presence" and "light mind", like a calm wind over me. What does that mean ?!?
Do you mean my version of banishing Vs my version of invoking? Or my version of banishing vs the GD version of banishing? When you say "banishing however had the opposite effect", which version of banishing do you mean?
@FoolishFishBooks so Invoking using israels method fills my mind with thoughts and makes me hyper productive, albeit a bit of a passenger to my life. I can never sleep with it because the thoughts don't stop. I have to banish to sleep. Yesterday Invoking using your method I felt like life was drained! I was exhausted mentally and physically all day. It was scary. I may have did something incorrectly during Invoking. Banishing using your method was profound, the effects were instant! I'm just trying to understand why I began feeling the "presence" with it so strongly. It's a feeling of someone watching me with a light mind, slight out of body feeling. Thank you!!!
So much to think about! Thanks for another great video 😊
Oooo yeah, this is going straight into my archives. You covered all angles nicely.
Excellent video! We have come to the same conclusion about the LBRP. However unsurprisingly, others are not too thrilled with our elaboration. Anyways really enjoyed your explanation and it's nice to see a true seeker of wisdom.
Wow. This makes so much sense. I'm still relatively new to the western traditions, but I did think it's highly possible that some published works would have intentional mistakes in them. Secrecy was a huge part of it all and even Regardie may have respected this when publishing these secrets, inserting a few changes here and there. Possibly for the good of the Solitary Practitioner, too much power straight away could go wrong I suppose.
The published version does work but perhaps even neophytes were mislead until they reached the inner order and then were given the more powerful and historically accurate versions, unless they were exceptional and discovered this "purposeful blind" themselves.
Either way, I do suppose that eventual personalised practice after a bit of experimentation and using what applies to one personally may yield more powerful results. The entities themselves understand what someone is trying to accomplish, and in most cases are eager to help. They probably won't mind too much if one were to call them to different positions, and give as much power to it as they can.
But as we know, magick is about what we ourselves put into it, so if in ones practice and visualisation a certain way feels more powerful, it probably is for that person.
This feel right. The different directions of invoking different elements always didn't make sense to me. It was hard to remember there was no reason or order to it. But now watching this, I feel like this is right. There is now a purpose in each movement in direction. Thank you.
Another thing. The different states of temperature on the elements in the correct way also refer to the water cycle, and how water transmutes into different states from liquid to gas to being absorbed by the earth, then burning when the earth is too dry like with wild fires. The natural state and cycle of the earth.
excellent video and illustration, ty
This perspective is so interesting. If you were to write a book about this and many other perspectives of yours. I would absolutely buy it!
First let me thank You for your lovely work and uploads. Appreciate you greatly. I'm an Aquarian and know quite a few Aquarians as well. And as backwards as it may first seem, let me assure You that Aquarius is most definitely not a water sign. We are far more cerebral and analytical (air) than we are emotional (water). All my friends born of water signs have emotions as their compass, strength and weakness. But every Aquarian I know, including myself, has rather had to work quite hard to get out of our heads and learn to respect emotions. To the analytical Aquarian, being run by emotions is not only unreliable but quite off putting and unsophisticated. It's not uncommon for the Aquarian to secretly frown and look down upon those who let their emotions overrule their intellect. The Aquarian personality* wouldn't allow itself to be swept away in some wave of feelings without always keeping a keen eye on what's going on and why, while the mind at the same time interprets, labels and comments on the experience. We have a tendency to overvalue the mind, and have to make a conscious effort to connect with and embrace our heart. Don't get me wrong - we may come off as "free spirited," intuitive, fluid, artistic and visionary, but as soon as someone gives us drama, the cold, analytical, cerebral and dissecting wall comes down. For a typical Aquarian personality* to become whole, balanced, healthy and complete, we must first learn to put feelings in just as high regard as we do thoughts.
How deep does this wormhole go. All rituals are imprinting techniques. That is they are designed (created by humans and refined over time). Imprinting techniques to programme the nervous system. The ritual is the program or syntax to use the computing analogy. The data is all present but may be ordered in different ways. To achieve different outputs, results, information etc. All human experience is mediated via the nervous system and the analysis of the output/result is knowledge of a sort but not truth. Truth exists on a spectrum and is very tricky to pin down (think of Heisenberg’s uncertainty principal, Schrodingers cat) just like establishing the location of an electron, the double slit experiment. Just as no two astrophysicists can agree on the age of the Universe, put two magicians in a room and watch the sparks fly.
"We place no reliance on virgin or pigeon; our Method is Science, our Aim is Religion."
How much greater will your confidence in the method be, when borne by fact, not rote or superstition?
How much more efficient when the data is ordered and encoded correctly?
We can't expect people from centuries ago to know everything even if they were intelligent. Theres always room for error or missing information need to get the correct answers to questions. Even in science theres always new information that changes things. We need to be open to changing and adapting things for the better. People now a days a smarter than 100 years ago and the same is for us, people will find flaws in our work because they have more intelligence and more information to work with.
@@betzyberumen6910 As well as new methods developed or changes upon on old ones, Gom is putting quality content(methods) that is congruent to our times we live in yet based on authentic kabbalah . Pathworking is getting more popular as well
Who are you? We need knowledge like this.
In addition, the Golden Dawn and many other magick societies were known for placing blinds on their written knowledge to hide the truth, so that magickal secrets would not be revealed
Thank you. I've had to listen to this 2x and a 3rd, and send it to my 5th degree friend. Really important! This changes Everything ⚡ Thank you. Appreciate you so much🎄
Ah glad to help! I hope you saw the FAQ in the description, I now keep Michael in the South and Uriel in the north (see FAQ).
I'll be doing a full demonstration and analysis on Saturday.
@@FoolishFishBooks Thanks.
It's saved.
When I began performing the LBRP it never felt right that AIR should be in the East. I then read an article by Michael Osiris Snuffin, on his New Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram, which led me to change the order of the LBRP to my own version. And came up with East -Fire-Michael South-Air-Gabriel West-Water-Raphael and North-Earth-Auriel. Until I listened to Rav Dror sing a Jewish prayer. Placing East-Michael and this surprised me how close I was in correctly changing the order. This shocked me because the very same week before I listened to the Jewish Prayer. I was busy thinking of going back and looking at the order. And here I am on your video which is proof enough that Michael Osiris Snuffin was correct about the Golden Dawn blinds. Lastly your explaination on how draw the invoking and banishing of the pentagrams. Personally I think you are 100% correct. Thank You. I learned a lot from your videos
As always, thanks a lot for sharing your invaluable research!
This makes a lot of sense from my point of view. I work with Soma-Energetic sound healing Tuning Forks. One set of such tools is the DNA/RNA tuning forks set.
It consists of a Pineal Gland tuning forks + 6 Archangel DNA/RNA forks. For DNA ; Raphael is associated with Cytosine (C). Uriel is associated with Guanine (G).
Michael is associated with Adenine (A). Gabriel is associated with Thymine (T). For RNA; Metratron is associated with Uracil. Sandalphon is associated with Phenilalanine.
The DNA structure consists of pairs: Cytosine only bonds with Guanine - Adenine only bonds with Thymine.
This version of the LBRP makes more sense on an alchemical-opposites stand-point. Thank you,
Very helpful to a newcomer 😊. Thank you
This matches the colors of the rosy cross too.
Yes! Before I swap earth and air, anyway. In any case, the earth/air swap is probably more contentious than the fire/air swap...
This is really fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing this information.
This was a super insightful video and one of the best I've seen on LBRP, which answered many questions. Never understood previously GD's version of drawing the banishing and invoking pentagram - now I think that it definitely is just a thing they used to throw newcomers off lol. Also this explains why I've always felt hot flashes/waves of heat when invoking Raphael. Great video!
We are grateful for your guidance
Yet again, finding the answer to a question that just jumped in my head out of nowhere... I also thought of that order of the elements is such Earth - Water - Air - Fire based on laws of physic where heat grants that same order to the elements. Cold mater is hard (earth) then it becomes warmer and melts to form a liquid (water), then it becomes hotter to form a gas (air) and finally it becomes plasma (fire). Interesting stuff.. :)
Oh thank you... this makes so much sense!
One of the most valuable videos on UA-cam.
This is almost a game stopper for consideration, possibly a game changer. I have always practiced starting in and facing the east (Air) with Raphael, if what you propose is true, my starting point has been the element of fire. I really need to investigate much further.
Just for your reference, in the book “The Sacred Magic of Ancient Egypt”, by Rosemary Clark, in the spiritual consecration rituals of Temples, ( starting @ page 69 ) invocation of the elemental forces prior to physical Temple construction, was described as follows: (North •Earth•Daumutef), (East•Fire•Qebsenuf], (South•Water•Haapi) and (West•Air•Imset)
These elemental directions were described by the ancient Egyptian culture, and was practiced for thousands of years… You may be onto something profound. As always I appreciate your content.
Brilliant video, thank you
I’d been questioning format as I kept desiring to state earth in the south for whatever reason. I shrugged it off and wrote out the g.d way for my b.o.s then found this shortly after. Thank you so much for your descriptive detailing. I am one who strives to develop understanding via an encompassment of knowledge and application so the descriptive information is well received. Thank you again 😊
Excellent video!
More videos like this one!
😄 I'm so glad you liked it!
Interesting material to do my own research on and contemplate.
Thanks for shaking things up a bit. I am curious to see how this dust will settle in my mind.
Great vid!
Gotta love a bit of that good ol' controversy :) Thanks for watching! :)
Very insightful 👍🏿
Absolutely helpful thanks a lot
Nice breakdown.
If you look at it in terms of energy and flow, it would absolutely make sense to start from the lowest vibrational frequency to the highest, earth(solid)-water(liquid)-air(gas)-fire(plasma)
I was really following along, nodding, until you got to the zodiac. I want to scream "no"as it goes against everything I've learned but...damnit, I have to say what you pointed out is amazing. Serious food for thought, no matter how uncomfortable it makes me!
The Zodiac thing gets me. As an Aries with a Capricorn stellium, I'm primarily Earth and Air, but I feel you may be on to something as I make more sense as Earth and Water. Psychic, Grounded, imaginative, heart centered.
I'm neither ambitious nor restless, so....
Excellent observation!! Congratulations!
incredibly insightful, thank you for sharing this!!!
Thank you for all of your content! 🙏
Stunning. Thank you sir!!
The intelligence of this community is truly something to behold. I wish I could think this analytically and critically.
Mind Blown! But in a good way. I wrote this all down and thank you so much! You are so smart and so helpful
This is fascinating. Now I will have to try it.
Hi George, Thanks for the support! :D So in the end, my LBRP is now back to being deceptively similar to the GD version, only the elemental attributions of the East and South have changed, as I now have Fire in the East with the Rising Sun, and Raphael holding the Rod of Asclepius, and no longer the Caduceus of Hermes, and robed in Red, and Michael in the South is now Air for me, with Yellow robes and Michael's sword of information coming out of his mouth, pure gnosis.
@@FoolishFishBooks was this due to a difference in felt energy or some other correspondence reason?
I did the LBRP in the manner you suggested and I agree it is more powerful. I greatly appreciate this video and your channel for this alternate method of the LBRP. This will be my preferred method from now on.
Hey, I'm so glad it worked out for you :D
What do you mean by more powerful? 🙂
this has got to be my favorite one of yours :P
Amazing, i always thought like that about the Zodiac as a child. I am watching your videos to perform LBRP for the first time in My life. Thanks
Thank you so much for this amazing presentation FF. I have watched it about 10 times, taken notes an had a practice or 2 LBRPs. I m still a relative newbie so I have to let it sink in a bit. If nothing else I am making stronger connections between the Angels, names of God and elements, but seriously, this a fascinating discovery. Drawing the Invoking Pentagrams the way you have shown here makes perfect sense, even to my limited knowledge. Thank you once again. 🙏
I might have to come back to this video a couple of times...feeling a little discumbambulated at the moment...
Your blowing my mind, man.
Very observant of you; it feels so right.
This is amazing. Great job
Very interesting. I think the GD version is ingrained in my mind so it might be hard to try another version, but that makes a lot of sense. Might give it a try, see how it feels later :)
I can tell you it took me a looong time to dare to try something different 😉
This is such a perplexing yet fascinating topic which I personally am still grappling with. As someone who lives in the Southern Hemisphere I've often struggled with the Zodiac which follows the Northern Hemisphere seasons. The elemental directions pose a similar dilemma. In order for my mind to make more sense of it I tried to experiment with thinking about it in relation to our position on the globe. I like the following... The Sun (fire, day, summer, dry, hot) will always rise in the East and set in the West with the Moon (water, night, winter, cold, wet) regardless of which hemisphere you live in. In the Northern Hemisphere the Sun moves towards the South (air, hot, wet, equatorial) bringing in Autumn and back to the North (earth, cold, dry, polar) bringing in Spring, therefore Earth in the North and Air in the South. However in the Southern Hemipshere the Sun moves towards the North (air, hot, wet, equatorial) bringing in Autumn and back to the South (earth, cold, dry, polar) bringing in Spring, therefore Air should be in the North and Earth in the South. Maybe many of these models work far better when we transpose them from 2D into 3D.
love this channel its just what I need to find
Puzzling over this a bit @Foolish Fish and would like your perspective. A more naturalistic orientation that also meets your schema seems to be Earth>South / Air>North / Fire>West / Water>East. This seems to maintain polarity while keeping the Earth below us, as it it should be, the air above Earth as it is from our place. From western perspectives as you move north-east it becomes colder and wetter and when you move south-west it becomes hotter and dryer.
Thank you
Goodness gracious this is certainly not what I was searching for
This is beautiful, and brilliant!♾⚛♾⚛
To me, this video makes more sense that your other videos. I know that when I do the LBRP with Golden Dawn version, I felt something was off. Then, I changed it to the version mentioned by Damon Brand and somehow the energy feels right. I'd like to try this version you mentioned, the whole process makes sense to me.
very interesting finding
It gets even crazier when you think about Eastern beliefs like chakra, color, and vibrations. Scorpio is associated with root chakra, color red, and low vibrations.
I believe Scorpio are considered water because we are very emotional but keep it hidden. Still waters run deep. A scorpion will sting itself to death before succumbing to defeat. Similar to how Scorpios keep everything inside. Air signs are seen as more logical. Fire signs seen as aggressive, earth signs as stable and grounded. Anyway, interesting video!
All these Grimiores, Occult books have Magician Blinds and mistakes all over thanks for sharing!
yeah, it's on purpose you have to read them 1000's of times to see the hidden picture or meditate upon them! do not make a revolution please you're going to confuse the begginers and yourselves!
Greetings Sir,
Thank You for sharing this abundantly insightful discovery! Following simple logic and Aristotle's elemental diagram, everything in your rite makes perfect sense.
Considering that to a great extent, "invocations" and "banishings" really are tunning in and out to a specific force or principle, I kinda see your version as resembling some of a "volume knob." You turn it in one direction to lower the volume, i.e., tune in/invoke. And then you do the opposite to tune out; the Earth being the lowest, whereas Fire the highest.
Placing Fire and Water on one line while Air and Earth on the other also matches with HOGD's Elemental Equilibration rite. The same applies to the Earth and Malkuth gestures in your QC.
While I definitely agree that the Taurus/Ox seems "fierier" than the Ram, it's also strongly associated with fertility, labor, and stability - all of which are Earth qualities. Speaking of Fire, you regard my Earth sign as Fiery. However, I can assure you that though it likely would be awesome otherwise, that really isn't the case, and I'm pretty earthy and materialistic. In fact, based on personal experience, I can say that all zodiacal descriptions in the Cicero's Self-Initiation Into The GD perfectly match the characters of all people I know the signs of. That includes my parents, a bunch of friends, and a former girlfriend...
As long as for the alchemical eagle of distillation (as it's called in GD’s p. 362), I think it has a lot to do with the fact that biologically birds evolved from fish...
Placing water above the Earth in the tree diagram perfectly matches putting Fire in the east and Air in the south. Though it definitely makes sense in physics, I don't think it does in terms of what Air and Water represent in the human psyche. But that's just my personal (ignorant) opinion.
Plus, in the traditional GD way, which is also adopted by many Thelemites, you have the two "parent" elements above the two children. Yet, a fact remains that Air is considered a reconciler between water and Fire. Thus it makes sense to be right between them. Or doesn't it?
As the invocation says: "So, that every spirit upon the earth and under the earth, on dry land, and in the water, of whirling air and of rushing fire..."
Something to clarify is that this isn't a critique in any shape or form. Obviously, your mileage/proficiency is a lot higher than mine. I wonder whether you consider the possibility of having 4 different elemental pentagrams (your custom version) as being the root cause of mobilizing more power? In the past, I found an article outlining LRP for each element; the pentagrams follow GD's rule: invoke toward, banish from. I experimented with it.
What do you know... I excreted quite a bit of power. In fact, I had some difficulties controlling that, if performing some of those rites and not closing them with a standard LBRP, to let some of the energy stay with me throughout the day. Interestingly, one of those massively helped me in quitting coffee after abusing the crap out of it for 20+ years. I achieved that in two days with no withdrawal.
Another I wonder is whether you re-arranged your entire Pentagram Formula's directions, including GIRP and SIRP. Again as outlined by the GD, these can mobilize pretty substantial amounts of power. Actually, the second is pretty unmatched, but that's just how I feel based on first hand experimentations.
Lastly, I also wonder about GD's reason for swapping the places of those elements; whether it's because of some "secret," or is it to make all components of their system work together coherently.
I'll be happy if you let me know your thoughts on all those subjects. Sorry for the long comment. You're hands down the best occult channel. I admire your library, hoping to read even half of the books you already own!
Stay Safe and Happy Practicing!
POTB
Thanks for the mention in todays video.. I hadn't considered how the elements share attributes with the one next to it.. I also do the. LBRP the way you just changed to..We should talk sometime.. there are other blinds you might wish to explore for the mysteries hides her secrets well..
Feel free to email me if ever want to talk
Great video! Thanks again.
Thanks again for the heads up. As usual, I had to go the long way about accepting that nugget, I can't go incorporating the advice of all the random strangers who watch my videos ;) But I was reading a book that suggested that Autumn was the season attributed to Water, and I just blew up. No! I can't take any more of this nonsense XD SO I started researching the classical attributions of the seasons, and that was the entrance to the rabbit hole. So then I was like: wait that was this one person who left an interesting comment on my video about the four worlds... so there you go.
I've sent you an email now, so feel free to remove your email address from public view ;)
I'm new to Ceremonial Magik so I'm not 100 percent committed to one way or another. I actually just started the LBRP and LIRP along with the Quabilistic cross at the beginning and end of the ceremony.
Thank you for your discovery.
Best of luck on your path! 🙏
Thank you for this.
Great video but I'm not ready to unlock that much energy just yet so i'll stay put.
Not boring at all. It is a strange kind of balance we must achieve.
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! Yes, it's not always the easiest thing, keeping everyone satisfied 😉 Thanks for taking the time to watch and for your kind words! 😊
That IS the correct order perfectly corresponding to the body and it’s function from top to bottom sun to moo.
Really insightful ! Thanks
I suspected this but you confirmed it. Thank you. Look at Chapter 4 of the doctrine and ritual of high magic (Levi)… he puts earth in south, air in north, but fire in west with water in east.
Wow man. I’m going to have to think on this awhile.
This is very interesting and I will definitely try it this way as it does seem the correct way
Oh man. Just when I thought I was getting the LBRP down pat the complication factor has been raised dramatically :P I'll have to think a lot more on this as from all you say in this video this seems WAY more correct.
Do make sure you check the FAQ. This is only part of the story.