The Coronation of Charles III - Some Thoughts and Reflections
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- #charlesiii #coronation #westminsterabbey
In this video, I reflect on the coronation of Charles III last Saturday in Westminster Abbey. In it, I look at the elements that were different and those that remained the same, the good and the less good elements of this wonderful, historic occasion, the fortieth coronation to be held in Westminster Abbey.
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One note about Queen Camilla, I read in the last day or so (I believe in the Telegraph) that apparently the queen suffered a back issue in the week or so prior to the coronation so was in significant pain during the ceremony, and possibly on pain killers. That would clearly explain why 1)she looked rather uncomfortable the entire time; 2)she moved very gingerly throughout; 3)she could barely muster a curtsey to the king. If this is true, once again she soldiered on out of duty and love.
That may explains n why she didn’t kneel when sh was crowned. Her three predecessor queens consorts all kneel.❤
The anointing was beautifully done, and not hearing the "action" made it more spirtual. As the intro to "Zadok the Priest' built up, the King was being divested of his garments, and the screens came out and the camera panned to the King already behind it as the words of the song began. And when the screens were removed, the dramatic shot of the King in a plain white garment, kneeling in front of the altar as the three bishops prayed over him really added to mysticism of the moment. I rewatch this section often, wanting to hear the music again, and the purity and simplicity of man in a plain, white shirt was so compelling.
I agree wholeheartedly and as an Orthodox christian I love that sort of layered, unexplained mystery. I don't think everything needs explaining. However, I'm simply baffled by it being introduced in the context of the modern and increasingly Evangelical Church of England.
Yes, that was a very touching moment. The King looked so humble as he knelt between the bishops clad only in his white shirt.
@@borleyboo5613 I didn't realise the humility of the moment would hit me so hard. Maybe it was intentional good staging, and if so, well done!
@@allanbarton Charles seem to be bucking a lot of what was to be included for the religious service.
@@allanbarton what does Evangelical mean?
Excellent assessment. Having seen this coronation I did go back to see those of Elizabeth II and George VI and now recognised the elements. It was also obvious the King found some of the ceremony taxing, perhaps realising the true weight of the crown. I suspect some of the reductions were indeed due to age considerations.
Well I’m delighted and grateful you’ve braved the ire of a few people and now put your thoughts back up. I think you’re more gracious than I am so 3 cheers Prof Barton , take care
The most moving part was definitely the Greek Choir's singing... it elevated the events which were fast-paced, into a more intense, slower Byzantine feel. The pavement, the cloth of gold... amazing.
I had doubts about the gospel choir but was won over. Such a great feel.
It felt as if the entire thing was rushed and adapted to please everyone. I was glad to watch a stream without the commentary which I have found on a subsequent re-watching to cut across everything in the most awful way. The silences are there for a reason; they are not a time to comment on what people are wearing!
That single shot of the King divested of his garments kneeling was incredible. He really looked like someone's grandad in his shirt and trousers who got lost, was told to 'kneel here', and he did!
IMHO the gospel singers were entirely out of place. Them standing in the middle of the quire and swaying and dancing was like some tent revival meeting rather than the solemn ceremony it should have been.
I'm glad you were won over, but I was not.
@@peterosmanski7466 i would have loved the gospel singers had they only been singing instead of doing the swaying motions. Coronations aren't analogous to a wedding, it’s similar to a baptism/funeral so the dancing was really out of place.
I think it was inevitable when we have not had a coronation for so very long that the changes that were made felt more substantial than they normally would - in more ordinary circumstances we might have had more gradual changes over perhaps 3 coronations, with decades for people to get used to things. So on the whole I think it worked rather well. I felt the music in particular was excellent, and I also felt the ecumenical elements (obviously very important to Charles - and which not too long ago would have been seen as incredibly radical) were well integrated and felt very appropriate in modern Britain.
I didn’t miss the coronets (which to be honest to me always looked rather tacky and like costume jewellery beside the real crowns!) And I thought the use of the robes of the various chivalric orders added a good splash of vibrancy and splendour. I can understand the reason for Charles not having the Imperial State Crown re-raised - people have got so used it to it as worn by Elizabeth that I think it would have looked rather odd to most, and the lowered version still suited him to my eyes. As it was, I felt the issue was much more with Camilla’s crown which really did look quite wrong and mis-sized - I don’t know if that was failure to adapt the existing crown appropriately, but it certainly did stand out as problematic.
While I agree with you that the wearing of a surcoat was appropriate, I did think something was a little off about the fit on Charles (perhaps the length?), and the purple version did come across as rather gaudy in today’s full colour media - I wonder if a more subdued tone of purple might be adopted in future, as it did rather take away from the more important elements worn by Charles in many of the photos. I didn’t love the black trousers, but I can appreciate in your 70s there is a need to balance an element of practicality, so perhaps it was a reasonable compromise!
Overall, I thought it worked rather well. With such an old monarch things will never feel quite as glamorous and splendid as with the young Elizabeth, and there definitely were a few awkward moments, but for a ceremony not performed for 70 years, the fact that it was as successfully done as it was is quite an achievement. I imagine when William comes along, the additional changes required will be less significant, and they can focus on tidying up some of the elements that weren’t quite ideal this time round.
People keep comparing young against old - perhaps we should ask ourselves what would the coronation have looked like if HMQE had been 74 when she was crowned?
Great points!
I agree with everything you have noted here. I was left feeling flat by the end of the ceremony - so many missed opportunities.
All I can say is that I am so grateful that you listened to feedback and put it back up. This has shown me that you are an honest person and are truly dedicated. I am sure that this video will be excellent.
8:50 I kinda liked how Zadok the Priest was playing over the anointing and you couldn't hear what the priest was saying. It made it a more private and spiritual moment in my opinion :) That anointing is the only part of the coronation that I've watched many times because it is so moving.
I agree with you. If the Holy Spirit is being called down, that is an intensely private and sacred moment for the King. The screen bearers keeping it together during the rite had their heads down and eyes closed. Seeing the King revealed in his shirt kneeling at the altar when the screen was removed seemed very poignant to me. Frankly I started to cry when I recognized the music, but then I'm an old softy!
Yes, it felt quite natural for ZtP to be played during the anoitment. Nothing felt amiss.
There is a report that Queen Camilla hurt her back the prior week and was possibly in pain. If accurate this might explain her looking uncomfortable and ill at ease.
Thanks for re-uploading your video. It was worth the wait.
I felt that it was evident that the queen was finding the entire rig for her coronation robes very taxing and possibly painful for her back and shoulders from the first moments of the procession. And I positively felt sorry for her when the archbishop pretty well jammed the crown straight down upon her head, leaving her wincing and surreptitiously trying to push her hair out of her eyes. Maybe she and the archbishop could have run through that a few more times so he could learn the old scoop and settle used when putting a hat on a lady's head.
I’m saddened and disgusted you have received abusive comments for your exemplary hard work. Allan, I wonder if the upload had remained online the negative would’ve been balanced by the positive? Could the YT algorithm have been at play here?
Personally, I am gutted, I didn’t see the upload and I have been looking forward to hearing your analysis since before the ceremony even took place! Would it be possible to put it behind a paywall so enthusiasts could pay to view it? Don’t let the haters win.
I am so sorry for your bad experience. These people do not speak for the rest of us.
Thank you - I have put it back up now.
Bravo!!! Yes, I have just found it and am watching it now. Thank the Lord! And thank you, of course 😀
I agree with you on nearly all your points! Incidentally I think Prince William doing homage was designed to take the place of his investiture as Prince of Wales - it's done and didn't we do well in avoiding the extra expense and possible backlash!
Amazing series Allan - well done and thank you!
Very good point @ian port. I also thought this personal touch was very lovely and much appreciated by the king. Unlike his mother he had no loving husband to kiss him
It was agreed and announced beforehand that PofW would pay the normal homage to the Monarch on behalf of all the Royal Dukes. This I believe was to save them bending as they are all quite elderly and also time.🏴🇬🇧
A very fair and balanced assessment. Not in any way excessive. People may disagree with you, but they have no grounds for taking offence. Well done!
All your hard work re explaining the coronation is very much appreciated ! Including the special edition magazine of the past coronations.
Thank you Allan for all your hard work in helping all of us get a better understanding of the coronation which increased our feelings of happiness and enjoyment of such an historic occasion and helped to ignore the non conforming bleats !!!
I have been watching this series with great interest and was dismayed when this video showing your very insightful analysis suddenly disappeared.
Thank you for reposting it. It rounds out a wonderfully informative series.
I enjoyed the coronation and felt your videos made each part of it and the symbolism much easier to understand. Thank you for all your hard work on our behalf.
Thank you for all of the wonderful work on the coronation over the last few months, Allan. Beautifully done! 👏👑
Personally, I rather enjoyed watching the coronation!! Watching your videos about the ceremony helped me to understand the proceedings better!! ❤👍💗👑
I did too Nadia and thank you, I am really glad you enjoyed the videos. It is interesting to compare this ceremony to those from the past, certainly a new tone was set.
These considerations and criticisms were very apt, and there are a number of aspects worth going into, such as the robes of chivalry... thanks for all your work.
Thanks so much for this overview and explanation of the various aspects of the ceremony.
The *love* on display: Charles for his people, ALL his people, was overwhelming. All of the innovations that so many disliked were my favorite part of the ceremony. I was stunned by how *intimate* it was!!! Pretty sure I went through half a box of tissues.
Thank you for putting this back. Your channel was part of the process. If things do not change they die.
The next Coronation May even be a private event who knows. I hope it will be another 30 years before we find out.
Dr. Barton, as a lover of all things royal (and i live in America!), I made it a priority to watch and digest all your videos on this channel before watching the coronation last week. Oh my, I wouldn’t have appreciated what I saw on May 6 quite as much if not for the education you gave me. I watched on BBC and my only disappointment of the ceremony was that we did not see Camilla’s anointment at all. The cameras cut away at just that moment and I don’t know why. If we mere mortals are not permitted to see the King’s anointment, I would’ve liked to have seen the Queen’s!
A really well considered reflection, Dr Barton. I agree that, 'though I enjoyed the Greek Orthodox chant, the Archbishop of Canterbury's words during the investiture were barely audible - indeed, I thought both his microphones had malfunctioned, leaving it to the area mics. to pick up his voice, 'though things did improve afterwards leaving me to conclude that the prominence given to the chant was deliberate.
I also agree that the words of the annointing, arguably the pivotal phase of the ceremony apart from the crowning itself, should have been audible too, both to those gathered in the Abbey and those watching/listening at home.
On a more prosaic note, I wish the women of the Royal Family had worn the more 'traditional' white/cream evening gowns and tiaras, rather than 'order mantles' and hats or headbands of various forms, while the non-royal attendees had worn white/cream evening gowns or morning suits. There seemed no reason for this change from previous coronations.
In closing I'd like, once again, to thank you for all your hard work in compiling and presenting this unfailingly fascinating, and indeed entertaining, series of coronation-themed episodes; I've enjoyed every one of them and now look forward to your next films on other historical themes.
Thanks for putting this video back up Alan. It is indeed a thoughtful and reflective review. You raised a few points I missed in the coronation. I thank you very much for all the work you did putting together the whole series about the coronation. It made the process so much of better experience for me and my family and raised so many interesting points of discussion amongst my work colleagues both before and after it. Thank you for your point of view. Variety is the spice of life. I hope you continue to put up the great content you have in the past.
I totally agree with your assessment
Hi Allan! The care you have given to this topic, from first to last has been splendid indeed. Many thanks!
Yep, I agree: Give me the history and the pomp. Thank you for your thoughts on the Coronation.
I thought the anointing screen worked very well, and the way the soldiers bowed their heads was very moving.
It was of course a different experience from that of QE2, who was almost heartbreakingly young and vulnerable looking, in the gown by Hartnell glittering as brightly as the jewels. But the music was glorious and it did seem a very ‘Charles’ service - perhaps slightly awkward but heartfelt and well intended.
Beautifully, expertly,and fairly sumized. I miss Her late Majesty so very much, and watching her coronation brings it home to me that an age has most certainly passed. So much grace and majesty has gone missing- not only in this ceremony, but in the world we live in.
Thanks for this very interesting and informative video, and I'm so glad you decided to post it again.
Thank you Allan. This series has been of a very high quality and I very much appreciate you work on it.
Thank you for a fair and balanced reflection on the coronation from a historical perspective, it was greatly appreciated and I agree with many of your points. Thanks you
As a Yank and a Heretic, but also a student of history, I can't help but agree with your assessment, Allan. If you're going to crown a king and queen in the 21st century, you should lean in to the stately ceremony of it all. Alas...I'll just have to enjoy my copy of your Coronation Special when it arrives! Keep up the good work.
At "Zadok the priest and Nathan the prophet anointed Solomon king", I wholeheartedly cried from happiness.
Yes! I've been waiting for this!
Thank you Alan. I appreciate your knowledge and opinions.
I thought the anointing was quite moving. It lent an air of mystery to the rite. The soldiers keeping guard with their heads bowed was very touching. And then when the screen was removed revealing the King kneeling in just his white shirt,he seemed so vulnerable. Moving.
Thank you for your video! I found your entire series fascinating and enjoyable and looked forward to your reflections on the service. Thanks also for identifying the robes the royal family were wearing. I was hoping for a sea of crimson but guess I missed that century. 🙂
I guarantee if the anointing was not entirely obscured someone would have a video of all of it on the internet in minutes, I reckon this was a good option, though I would have liked to hear the words of the arch bishop.
You are most certainly correct - this coronation has been well and truly in the spotlight like no other before it.
Hello Allan so pleased you had a bit of a break before this. I had to rewatch it to get my mind around things. They had to modernise and of course the ages of King and Queen had to be considered. Personally I liked the anointing screen and not to hear it made it more mysterious. I did think the lead up to it derobing etc was a total muddle. Major Johnny did a sterling job moving robes etc. . I loved Zadok the Priest and did like it how they placed it. As you did I thought the orthodox chant took me to thinking of Byzantine times and was a nice touch.
The ommission of a crowd outside the Abbey made me feel sad but expect security concerns dictated it.
The homage was, for me the worst thing. Agreed it should have been omitted. They tried to get a modernised ceremony which they achieved. Camilla's crowning was a muddle and I didn't see her anointed at all. She looked terrified the crown would fall. I saw an interview later on with one of her attendants who said they were both v tired after the day.
I have to mention the Princess Royals plume for doing a sterling job obscuring the errant son
!
Thank you for all your videos sterling work sir.
I agree with every one of your observations: it was a wonderful day, but could have been better without too much extra effort to iron out the sloppy bits and inconsistencies. For me the great disappointment was the procession at the start. I was hoping for the same format in 1953 where it was one continuous whole from the very first beadle/verger through to the Sovereign's climactic entrance with the vivats; everyone in their most elaborate robes, all the regalia getting a look in, music building all the time. Instead we got separate processions for the faith leaders and Commonwealth Realms which cut momentum and silence for the "main" procession before the King. "I was glad" only got going once the King took his first step up the nave - what a wasted opportunity. The TV pictures were a bit erratic before the King's entry as well: one second there's a side on view of someone speed-walking in silence towards the altar bearing a sceptre, the next a rapid cut away to see the State Coach idling out the front with the King and Queen still outside. I'd like to think this was because there was no annexe built out the front to get everyone lined up before their grand entry but I doubt this will see a comeback next time. Thank you for all of your coronation content - it has been much appreciated from here in Australia where non-celebrity royal coverage is hard to find. If your criticisms are the worst people can find then I think the monarchy is safe for a long time to come.
Plus Prince William and Catherine were late! They arrived at the Abbey AFTER the King and Queen which meant Charles and Camilla had to wait around outside for them to get there! The Wales's should have been already seated in the Abbey when the King and Queen's procession came in, instead they had to tag along behind. Poorly done
Thank you for pointing out these matters. The absence of an annexe in which the King, the Queen and their attendants (if not the entire procession) could have prepared themselves and, indeed, waited, was a glaring practical omission that, I presume, can be explained only on cost grounds. If I rememember correctly from viewings of films, the annexe for the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II was a large and very elaborate structure.
I read that the reason that the King and Queen were delayed in the coach for so long was that the Prince and Princess of Wales and the children arrived late, after the coach had arrived in front of the Abbey. Their position in the procession was ahead of the King and Queen, and of course Prince George was to be a Page holding the King's robe.
I didn’t think the black trousers looked quite right, but I can’t help wondering whether King Charles made that choice to conceal ankle oedema. After all, it wouldn’t be too surprising if he had swollen ankles, due to whatever is causing his swollen fingers. Watching the coronation, I thought he looked very old.
The trousers looked terrible just did not work
Dear Dr. Barton, thanks for all the effort you put into the videos! The coronation last Saturday wouldn't have been such a great experience for me without having watched all your videos before.
3 oberservations:
If you don't want the coronation to last over two hours, you have 2 options: Cut out certain elements or execute two things at the same time. Those in charge of preparing the coronation decided for the latter (e.g. "Zadok the Priest" while the King was annointed). They wanted to gain time.
In my view, there was one thing better done in 2023 than in 1953: the participation by the people: It had 2 hymns instead of one, more spoken answers; the gospel was red in the nave and there was a sermon. Dispite the fact that half of the people in the UK don't have any religious affiliation, I think it was meet and right to do so.
During the last days, I found the time to just listen to a commentary-free video of the coronation service. When you just hear the words and music, you realize how meticulously the ceremony is planned: the prayers, the readings and the music from medieval times to the present.
Thank you for this review and commentary. It’s wonderful to hear your knowledgeable reactions.
Question: The formality and sparkle of the State Opening of Parliament were lessened dramatically in the last few years of Her Late Majesty’s reign. The tiaras and gowns left as did the wearing of the crown and robe. I sense the crown and robe were simply too cumbersome for the increasingly frail Queen but I’m wondering if King Charles will carry on with that pattern or if any glamour will return. Will the next showcase of royal sparkle to be “modernized” be the state banquets? I believe the majority of the people enjoy the colour and sparkle of royal events, otherwise, there won’t be much difference between royal occasions and, say, a formal business meeting.
I couldn't agree more. People look to Great Britain for pageantry and splendor. I think both add to the gravitas of the occasion and to the prestige of the country. It's been disappointing.
I totally agree with you. Someone who has spoken my mind. I thought I was the only one that felt this way.
my thoughts too. I feel we were spoiled by Dr Barton's lecture videos, and thus let down somewhat when the actual day came.
My family and friends all thought it was marvelous, and when isolated from history, I do agree. But this isn't merely a royal wedding, or a service of commemoration.
The complete closure of Parliament Sq to the public, as well as the lack of a congregation within, made it feel very muted compared to the great display put on for the twentieth century monarchs.
When viewing footage of King George VI and later Queen Elizabeth II's coronation, I can't help but notice the grand stands which were built along the route, not to mention the splendid and temporary annexes built at the west door
Don't forget that George VI and Elizabeth II's coronations both came on the heels of nasty, ugly wars and deprivations that presented existential threats to the UK. If they were grander than this one, that's also part of it. Elizabeth's coronation must have meant so very much to a UK that was still dotted by bomb rubble as a 3 hour long ceremony filled with glitter and pomp and a beautiful young queen at the heart of it. "We prevailed and will prevail," it must have meant.
The only thing I really disagreed with in this coronation was that the thrones weren't elevated enough. One step might have been a nod to an older king, but still -- those things need to be elevated so everyone can see them. You don't want people in the back rows craning their necks.
Allan, thanks so much for all your hard work leading up to the ceremony. With your words and images ringing in my ears (along with Sir Roy Strong's book at my side) I really felt a greater understanding of what was going on.
Yes at moments I briefly thought how absurd it all was, but mostly I came away feeling the job had been done well. The sight of our new King kneeling in a simple linen robe, the kiss from his son, and the sudden realisation on Prince George's face that one day this would be his fate too, really worked. Other elements were less succesful, but I have to agree with some of your other comment-ers that the abscence of the (now largely irrelevant) peers in their out-dated robes and coronets was sensible, giving a congregation much more akin to 'the people' in proportion.
Our choir master managed to transcribe a version of the new Vivat and our choir sung out at the end our service on Sunday morning, much to everyone's great surprise and pleasure, and we all followed on with the national anthem. I suppose we are a basically anglo-catholic congregation, still embracing 1662 for daily Morning Prayer and our earlier Sunday Service, though our main services use the newer prayer book.
Hey ho, and God Save the King.
Thank you Allan.
I really enjoyed hearing your insights and comparisons. Thank you for posting!
Yeah! I’m so glad this got posted!!
Hi Allan, I just wanted to say thank for these videos over the past few months. As a person with a love for history, even with some of the changes, I did enjoy watching the event from a historical perspective as it was something that had not been performed for 70 years and to see it live on TV was something for the memories. Your videos helped a great lot in explaining the traditions and customs of coronation and for that I am grateful.
My highlights were definitely the anointing even with the Zadok playing through it and the offering of the swords. That Penny Mordaunt was the real star of the show!
The only part I didn't like was the Queen's crowning with the Dean sprinting down the steps, the Archibishop awkwardly shuffling with the crown and the Queen without a robe. It felt rushed and sloppy.
But other than that, it was quite a spectacle.
I think that may have had something to do with her back problem. I think she was in a lot of pain & just wasn't able physically to do all they might have originally planned.🤔🏴
I was so looking forward to the coronets and diadems. I think the British are well on their way to simpler coronation ceremonies of the European monarchies. Sadly the pomp and pageantry is a thing of the past.
Given the economic situation in Britain, it would've apperared quite tone-deaf.
Economic situations have be far worse in the past.
I do wish they had spent a little more time on the alteration of Queen Mary’s crown for the Queen. It looked almost cartoonishly large and unwieldy, especially when compared to the King whilst wearing the Imperial State Crown which doesn’t appear to have had its arches raised since the late Queen’s passing.
Agreed, it wasn't designed to have the intermediate arches removed, the arches are too slender to pull that off. The Imperial State crown just looked silly on the king's head, I don't understand why they didn't raise it, they must have altered the band.
@@allanbarton I suspect it had to do with the cost, where the ISC was concerned. The QM crown wasn't as becoming to the Queen as I thought it would be. Queen Mary wore it better.
Yes, I too felt the Queen's crown just looked too big for her, and at one or two points she seemed worried it might fall off. (I don't know why it's so large - considerably bigger than other consorts' crowns, in fact.)
@@grievousangelic Yes, I've been looking at pictures of Queen Mary wearing that crown, and it looked a lot better on her. I don't know all the reasons, structural and esthetic, but it looked way too large for Camilla's head especially compared with the king's The missing arches were noticeable.
A really excellent set of reflections , and just the thoughts I am aiming to set out in my own blog. I will link to this video when I do so, as I have to some of your others on the Coronation rite. Thank you for this and all those other videos which clearly helped so many to prepare to watch the events of last Saturday.
Thank you for all of your amazing presentations - your works have been monumental in explaining away the mysteries of the rituals, rites and regalia that surround such an important and historical event- no other media outlet has taken the time or had the passion and interest to share such detailed and factual elements on this subject. Your knowledge and insights have helped me understand the concepts and meanings behind one of the most ancient traditions of English Royalty & Ritual and enabled me (and I believe countless others) to watch the main event with a more informed perspective. Thank you again for your contribution to this historical event 👑
I apprecite your thoughrs on this. Having never seen nor studied past events, your insights are very enlightening.
Thank you for putting this back. You are a historian and that does not mean you can't have your own (subjective) opinion about what actually happend.
You can't please everyone!
I heard that the Queen had pulled her back in the week before the ceremony. This may explain why she looked uncomfortable and was crowned in her seat? We had noticed she seemed a bit frail walking and this may explain why, and perhaps why she didn’t do it while carrying the sceptres? It would have been dreadful riding in the carriages with a sore back at any time, but especially the notoriously uncomfortable State Coach. Overall you seemed to note everything we did at home, Dr Barton and we concur with your observations. I downloaded both the Liturgy and the Liturgy with commentary to follow along and feel I understood and appreciated it so much more through all of your videos and would happily buy a DVD of them as a set. Thank-you so much for making all of these. Something that surprised me, was that as they processed out, very few of the attendees curtsied or bowed; mostly older people did. Considering how many people were not invited, I would have thought those privileged to be invited and who chose to attend, weren’t a little better versed in protocol /etiquette. Times will change, as you noted.
I have enjoyed your videos. They were very informative.
Thank you for all your videos on the Coronation. I am really sad I missed seing your long analysis. Perhaps you could publish it elsewhere (I’d happily pay for a copy) via your home page, so that not all your hard work will feel in vain? Best wishes and many thanks
I was really shocked at how rushed the Queen's Coronation seemed. It made it feel like an afterthought and I felt sorry for her. I hope that the next coronation will have a bit more pomp and circumstance.
Hi Allan, I came across your channel a couple of months ago and would just like to thankyou for all the hard work you've put into this coronation series, very informative and highly entertaining. I look forward to your further projects. I have to agree with you the service surrounding the queen's crowning was very disappointing. Let's hope it is improved for queen Katherine!
Hurray!
This is simply wonderful.
I enjoyed your analysis and very much aft with everything that you said. 👏👏
I am so sorry you were disappointed, having put so much into the build up for us. I thoroughly enjoyed it and especially the anointing. Having heard your thoughts Allan, I can see now what was missing. I think they had a hard act to follow and had to balance overspending with underspending. However, it was still magnificent and spine tingling for me.
Great review & commentary! Appreciate all the videos/historical context leading to this. Keep sharp - it shan’t be long till the next!
I thought it was a splendid ceremony. I think Charles is very good at ‘reading the room’ as it where. And he realises that people would grumble if it went overboard and was to stiff and formal.
I thought Queen Camilla’s crowning seemed a little rushed and she seemed very anxious and tense. Maybe that’s understandable with that crown on her head and the solemnity of the moment.
The one thing I noticed was how scruffy and unkempt many of the congregation looked. But on the whole, it was, for me a very beautiful ceremony.
I've made this comment elsewhere, but I think it was more that QC was in a lot of pain with her back. I could be quite wrong but I think they had to make some adjustments on the day. Her companions looked very anxious to me.🏴
Love your insight to the coronation. I love tradition and wonder if William might return to a coronation that of his grandmother's.
Yes. I think William understands these things
Coronation kittens!!!😅 You have knocked another video out of the park. I get so much from your work! Thank you ❤
Thank you so much for this, Allan.
I think that probably a lot of the changes were instituted because of the change in the demographics of the audience.
I find that when 'non traditionalists' are filming they do not understand the important parts of the ceremonial and so what I think is important they see as boring.
We do not have the stamina and fortitude of earlier generations either!
I loved the Orthodox chant, made me think of the time of the early British Church when we were much closer to Orthodoxy.
I liked the way the Greek & Byzantine styling of the ceremony recalled the cultural inheritance from Prince Phil. We also had a heraldic nod to the Ukraine via the king's Order of the Seraphim.
It was definitely an inclusive ceremony compared to earlier ones (which I went back and watched). The 2023 coronation reflected the diversity of 21st century British society, having women and people of color and different faiths as active participants in the coronation. Frankly, I didn't miss the ditching of knee-britches and stocking on the King and pages as uniform-style slacks are much more reflective of clothing of the 21st century. But I agree with others that not having a coronation in 70s years, theret are few that are alive that would have been adults and participants in the planning and execution of the ceremonial aspects of the 1953 coronation. Even if King Charles lives to the age of his mother before the throne passes to William, we're talking a couple of decades max (though that would still put William about 60s, which is getting to be a fairly advanced age for becoming the monarch).
@@ianison9820 oh I missed that. A Methodist upbringing In determinedly SECULAR Aotearoa New Zealand does not fully prepare one for the esoteric detail. I think I may have missed some of Allan’s videos too. Things that intrigued me were the way the placement of the gold plate looked like Halos as (mainly bishops) stood in front of them. And the splendid portrayal of the “Last Supper” as the Archbishop stood in front of it and the king knelt there in his maternal grandfather’s shirt. We saw the balding aging figure honouring the Faith he was brought up in… and being severely pressed by all that stuff at the beginning about his “willingness “ to do the best in his powers to stick up for the CofE /Anglican Faith. Allan, THANK YOU for providing a forum to share our responses to this “once in a life time event “ in this civilised and respectful way. From south of the 45th parallel where few of my friends are even interested
I believe your comments are entirely correct. Your insight into the event is masterful.
I strongly agree with your comments, especially regarding the music covering the ceremonies and the severe pairing down of the Queen's anointing and crowning. The King's anointing really felt like the consecration at a traditional Latin Mass (which I have absolutely nothing against, but it did feel horribly retrograde in this context). And it felt like the Queen was snubbed the whole way through.
I cried when I saw George in his page uniform and thought William giving his homage was nice with him being the next in line Camilla looked terrified
Very much appreciate your thoughts. I was delighted when I heard Queen Mary’s Crown would be used, but would have preferred the retention of all eight arches.
I agree with most of what you were saying, which comes as a relief as I've been wondering for a few days now what your feelings would be! Personally I agree that I would have liked something more like 1937/1953, but we have to be realistic: if we want the ceremony to survive at all we need to let it change. I suppose the King was under quite a lot of constraints: the need in a time of widespread financial hardship for a coronation that looked less lavish than the older ones; his age and I suspect his worries about the Queen's age especially; his realisation that a significant number of people are not keen on her and don't want to see her taking a central role; and perhaps also the feeling that, if he wants William to agree to a coronation at all when the time comes, he needs to bequeath him something he is more likely to find tolerable. Perhaps also the King's own deep religious feeling prompted him to arrange someting that looked and felt more recognisably like a Eucharist service than past coronations, which have tended to look more like a royal (+ aristocratic) pageant with a few bits of Prayer Book interpolated here and there. My strongest impression watching it was how much it resembled a big Anglican cathedral function (such as an ordination service, a bishop's enthronement, or a Chrism mass) - I mean in general ethos rather than in particular features, although of course there were also specific points of contact with all three.
Thank you - A reasonable and educated synopsis of the ceremony explaining many differences from previous ceremonies many people would have been unaware of unless they had attended this and the previous ceremonies. A unique experience.
PS Glad that you put it back up!
GOOD job,Dr Allan Always watching
My first thought while seeing the Queen's crowning was that there is something going wrong. It seemed improvised, like it had been altered a few minutes before due to some problems. It was confusing until the end, when both came out of St. Edward's Chapel with her Robe of Estate. Only then I realized, that all the previous events must have been intended as they were.
Agree, I would've wanted to see the splendor of the 1937 and 1953 coronations in 2023 - robes, coronets, tiaras, and all.
I was also baffled why the Queen was crowned seated on the chair of estate sans her robe. It was really odd.
For me, the underrated part is the moment of investiture with the Byzantine/Greek chant being sung. The tune made that moment very medieval, mystical and otherworldly. It's as if you can feel the King being transformed into a different persona.
To be fair though, the mantles of the chivalric orders were a good compromise - it is as pompous as the ermine-trimmed robes. Would've shuddered if all participants were wearing day dress / garden party attire.
P.S. Thanks for this coronation series, learned a great deal not only about the aesthetics of the ceremony but also the deeper and spiritual meaning of the parts of the coronation service. 😁
Bit macabre but those of us around Williams age may get to see two more coronations and two Royal funerals. The funeral itself was a spectacle. I loved watching the change of honour guard by her coffin. The staff tapping and the complete silence
There was a lot of talk that the Queen was having difficulty with her back - she is seen in the coach with a cushion behind her, and she skipped some of the pre-coronation duties, reportedly resting. If so, it might explain the lack of the robes of estate, and her general air of discomfort. A great pity for her if that was the case. She soldiered on like the trooper she is though.
my thoughts on the coronation can be mostly summed up with “idk, its not bad” , besides the anointing and a few parts in the procession it was all a bit lackluster, i was never really offended (besides the shortness of the queen’s coronation) it was good but so many points could be improved so much, more soul and pride added. I like this video very much and it voices many of my views
I don't know why the Creed was omitted from the start of the Communion service (other than to save time I suppose, since they needed to allow time for the Archbishop's sermon). As an Anglican I always feel a bit short-changed at a Communion service when the Creed is omitted - in the village churches I attend it is usually watered down to a truncated and insipid version, we don't often get the full traditional prayer book Communion creed , even translated into modern language. A great pity.
It is said that George Vl recorded his thoughts of his coronation complaining of all the flubs made which irritated him (being a man who had an eye for the smallest detail’s accuracy) one being the crown put on backward by the archbishop.
I very much appreciated your videos leading up to the coronation. Learning the details of each item and ritual was fascinating. As for the actual event, I'm an American and I understand that it isn't my place to be critical. I will say that I was somewhat bemused at how such a historic and significant moment was made to feel kind of mundane. It almost felt like the people in charge were embarrassed by the whole anachronistic fuss and wanted it over with as quickly as possible.
Dr. Barton, we owe you many thanks for all your work and research preparing us to intelligently watch the Coronation. I think all your comments are fully on-point. Two other thoughts: I don’t think the King’s purple tabard worked well with his uniform trousers - it looked like an untucked bowling shirt, versus how it looked in the portrait of George VI, though breeches were clearly out of the question. With breeches unlikely to return, perhaps the garment should be longer. Also, I thought some of the camera coverage was just too close to the King’s face - it came across as almost claustrophobic and not the respectful distance seen in the 1953 coverage. Thank you again.
I was pretty disappointed to not see all the peers put on their coronets.
Did you notice that the Arch Bishop of Canterbury placed St Edwards crown on the King's head back to front?
Thank you Allan for leading us so well through this coronation. Great job! This was a beautiful coronation. In my opinion King Charles III and the Duke of Norfolk and everyone involved did a great job considering the anti-crown sentiment and the economic hardship of the nation at this time.
They did - the coronation was never going to be a repeat of 1953, but I think the King and Queen did splendidly well given it was such a long day for them.
I agree - Queen Camilla had injured her back too; she must have been in agony throughout and to do all the walking, kneeling, standing, twisting in those robes & the curtsey to KC (not to mention the ride back in the gold state coach), amazing. And KC also suffers with back problems. As people have mentioned, they both showed amazing fortitude. I felt the service was long enough, the music matched the occasion (a mix of wonderful old & new) & the people who truely mattered on the day looked fabulous I thought.🙂🏴
Thank you so much for guiding us through the coronation - I have learned so much from you and am looking forward to receiving your Coronation book. I was glad too, to watch the crowing of the King and Queen armed with insight and knowledge although, like you, I would have preferred something akin to the late Queen's or George VI's ceremony. I think mistakes were made at this coronation, not least the intrusive and awkward filming by the BBC and the decision to abandon certain details. I just hope that William doesn't take this to be a new precedent! Thanks again, Allan.
I was quite thrilled when this popped up because I thought I had missed it completely. For mr the multi faith and multicultural elements were very significant. I am of the same vintage as the King and have watchef with joy His genuine inclusivity ovrr the years. I really enjoyed your comments without having to agree with everything!!You put into words some of my discomfort about the role of Queen Camilla. I wondered if they were scared of stirring up a hornets nest by focusing too much on her.
Another great video, and well thought out commentary.
The video once again answered a few questions I had during and after the coronation.
I wasn't sure about the yellow carpet - at 16:42 in your video for example, it looked like they wherw filming in front of a movie green (well yellow!) screen! 😀
Thanks Alan for a good solid review of last Saturday's ceremony. Personally I am going to disagree on the point of the Homage of the People, I participated alone in my living room and found it hard to hold back the emotion. But I do understand why many felt it was divisive. Whilst I was disappointed that neither the King nor the Queen put on their Coronation Rings and I thought not giving Queen Camilla the sceptres diminished her part of the ceremony, but again erring charitably towards their ages. The alterations to Queen Mary's crown were exactly what I expected and I think it was not particularly successful without all 8 arches.
One matter really confused me with regard to the chivalric mantles worn by member of the Royal Family and that was the sashes worn by the Prince of Wales and the Princess Royal. Prince William wore his Garter robes but his Thistle Sash and Process Anne wore her Thistle robe and her Garter sash. I found this quite dissonant.
Overall I was relieved that much of what historically we expected was still present, but I do agree that the music, glorious as it was, too often overshadowed ritual to the point of obscuring it. I was really looking forward to hearing the Archbishop intone "Be thy head..." etc and was disappointed that it was overshadowed.
I'm waiting eagerly for my copy of the coronation issue to arrive. 👑
❤🤍💙