I consider the name “Sullivans” significant because of the five Sullivan brothers. She’s not only a ship but a memerial to the five Sullivan brothers who lost their lives in the USS Juneau.
@@ExUSSailor This was the first ship to honor the Sullivan Brothers and shouldn’t be left rot because there’s another. The ship was sponsored by the mother of those brave boys. I never want to hear that There’s another because there isn’t.
Never having seen Drach, he is so much more burly and Blackbeard-looking than I’d expected. I don’t know why, but being as well informed and knowledgeable as he is, I expected some tweedy, bespectacled, fair-haired Professor type. This dude looks like he should be on the bridge of one of those Jutland battleships!
One of Drach's hobbies' is medieval re-enactment. Sometimes they practice fight, by actually hitting each other with big sticks. Though they practice finesse, the bigger guys then to do better. Here's one of his videos with Matt Easton of the Scholagladiatoria channel: ua-cam.com/video/JN0reIIb4SE/v-deo.html
Just a heads up about Drach, he usually appears on his channels live stream "Dry Dock" episodes. Also has a tendency to talk more if you keep the Iron Bru flowing.
I saw about USS The Sullivans and immediately thought I wonder when Ryan and or Drachinifel will put out a video about this. HA! good to hear from my 2 favorite youtube navy channels.
As another note, now that I watched the whole video, the destroyer I served on in the 80's (USS Robison DDG12) was less than 30 years old when we went into drydock for a 3 month overhaul. While in drydock a yard worker using a needle gun broke through the hull in a rusty spot, about 10 feet below the waterline. Always made me wonder how many more spots were like that- "rust, paint, and dreams".
Similar thing happened on USS Hancock (CVA 19) in 1974. Hanna was 30 years old at the time. The hole was just above the water line. NAVSEA was called in and the whole hull was xrayed looking for more damage and to determine if the ship was safe enough for one more cruise/deployment. Guess what we made one more major cruise/deployment.
My ship was USS Hugh Purvis, DD 709, a Sumner, built in 1945. I served during 1968-1971 and her hull was beginning to rust right through in places. It is un nerving to have water coming in out at sea.
I can beat that. My ship, the USS McKee (AS-41) was commissioned in '81 and by '87, had fist size rust holes at the waterline. Probably why she was decommissioned in '98 or '99.
So sad to learn of The Sullivans sinking in Buffalo, New York. My father was a Signalman 3rd Class on the Fletcher class Destroyer Boyd DD - 544 in 1943. I am a supporter of The Tin Can Sailors Association which in turn supports all museum destroyers. I urge all who can support The Sullivans to do so and help to save this historic ship.
I just want to thank the people at the New Jersey battleship museum and memorial for for recognizing the significance of the USS the Sullivan's. I live in Western New York and as a young boy my Uncle took me to the naval park where I got to see the Sullivan's along with the Little Rock and Crocker. Buffalo New York is truly lucky to have such amazing museum ships I know it's much harder to maintain 3 ships as opposed to one, but they are So important as reminders to us and future generations of Americans. These ships stands for how we fought and how the men and women who crude during their active service time survived and fought on a daily basis. Ryan thank you so much for your donation To help refloat and restore one Of Buffalo New York's historic treasures. Thank you.
My family and I toured The Sullivans Wednesday at around noon, apparently about 12 hours before the list was seen. We took a bunch of photos at that time if they would be useful. At that time, you could not board from the shore because of the angle of the gangplank. We were told the river was down two feet, making gangplank unlevel with shore. The gangplank was certainly way off of normal, and the ship is now leaning more that way.
@@jimdennis2451 Actually, it was "bring your cheery British 'Operation Cerberus' mine to work day" (referencing the relevant Drach video here: ua-cam.com/video/QNE0CkSsfJc/v-deo.html )
These ships are still at war, even in "war times" as many ships are lost to the environment as to enemy fire. Anyone who follows drach knows the only greater threat is budget!
Well, now it all makes sense. Drach has made enough videos showing his theoretical knowledge of ships and how to operate them efficiently, Ryan knows every bit of NJ, so, with distraction in form of The Sullivans taking all the attention of media they will have great opportunity to assemble a prize crew and set sail with New Jersey :)
@@Ebolson1019 Battleship New Jersey has some volunteers already. Drach will just organize an innocently looking "meet and greet". A full complement of senior and junior crew in a matter of hours. Veterans who served in the gulf war will become instructors and before you know it, tugboats are repositioning her to the open sea :P
This is the second greatest event in my life, coming in just behind my wedding day. Drachinifel and Ryan in THE SAME VIDEO!!!!! I hate that the topic has to be so depressing though.
I've said it before, I think it's absolutely amazing how much time and effort Ryan and the NJ team put into promoting and highlighting the plight of other museum ships. It would be so easy to keep the success of the channel to themselves but they don't. USS New Jersey may be retired, but that isn't stopping her from continuing to proudly support and protect her fellow ships.
THANK YOU ! Thank you Ryan and Drachinifel for what your doing for helping us get the word out. I have been working on the Sullivan's to help preserve her. I have been visiting the Buffalo Naval park my entire life. Today was heartbreaking to say the least. My hats off to the both of you for your dedication to educating the public and for your efforts to preserve our world naval history. Your efforts are worth their weight in gold! If we choose not to learn from our history, we are only destine to repeat the same mistakes as the past............ Sincerely, A Heartbroken supporter
Just discovered Drachinifel's excellent channel while researching Type IX U-boats ... looking forward very much to his updates on the restoration of U-534.
The Canadian vessel HMCS Haida, which sat at Ontario Place in Toronto. Also had issues was taken to the drydock in Port Weller. The Haida was repaired and is now back afloat in Hamilton, Ontario.
I've already sent some money today as soon as I heard. I didn't send $1k but I got half that. If you can't get there to help please send a few dollars if you can. _Everything_ helps. Thanks so much, Ryan and Drach for helping to get the word out. USS The Sullivans is an historic ship and we just can't lose her.
I was on the USS Corry, DD817, reserve destroyer in the back basin of the Philadelphia Naval Yard, February through December 1975 waiting for my slot at nuclear power school in Orlando. My first job on board was to take a needle gun to the rusty bilges in the aft engine room. Within 10 minutes of chipping I punched a hole through a weld and they took away my needle gun while the back basin came on through. The Corry was only 30 years old at the time. Can’t imagine it at age 78!
Ryan, this was great. Thank you for the link to the maritime park website. Sad but true about name recognition - though few ship names truly deserve better recognition than The Sullivans (perhaps if there had been a USS Four Chaplains?)
My last inspection of this DD was Oct 2012. Chief John Banning allowed me to follow him on his weekly "Leak inspection". As it was the last day of the season, the chilly air with sparse crowds afforded a once in a lifetime tour from stem to stern, foretop to bilge. Even on that cold Saturday visit, the "wind waterline" displayed several battlefield repairs. They don't call these Greyhounds of the Sea, "Tin Cans" because of their extensive hull thickness. My heart sank listening to the news she was resting on her Starboard.
It's great to finally see Drach and Ryan together in a video. Though I REALLY wish it was under better circumstances, though from the interviews they seem pretty confident they can pump her out and fix her. Lets hope.
Omg. I'm subscribed to both your channels. My two favorite naval historians! Rian gives the short version and Drac gives the long detailed. What a perfect combination. Great to see you together!!!
Here in Sydney, Australia on the 3rd of January 2022 we had a heritage ferry called Baragoola that sunk at it's moorings very similar to what looks like has happened with "USS The Sullivans". The main difference is that the upper portion of our ferry was made from timber and so as it sunk the upper part just collapsed and broke apart.
I am a volunteer at the Maritime Museum in Darling Harbour and we’re facing a similar situation with the Vampire with her hull becoming dangerously thin in some areas at most risk of springing leaks. She’s due for dry docking in September but she needs 3 months of work on her to strengthen and maintain her hull integrity. But we have to do all that work in two weeks before the next ship is scheduled to go into the Captain Cook graving dock, which is borderline unrealistic for us to make the necessary repairs that the Vampire desperately needs. On the upside, the blokes over at Sydney Heritage Fleet have gotten the 1912 Sydney built K-class ferry Kanangra out of the water onto their floating dock yesterday and they have done a superb job with the restoration of the John Oxley
@@aniowaclassbattleship7257 Surely the RAN could provide free dry docking at Garden Island for what was once one of her ships to make sure it continues floating and not end up like Baragoola.
Holly christ it's finally happened! My two favorite channels together sad that it's such unfortunate news I hope they get the Sullivan's all patched up
Same danged thing I said 😆..unfortunate the circumstances, but I think Buffalo will get a Lil bump of cash and love after this momentous Ep! (Next chat..Drach w/ Ryan at HMS Victory 🎉)
One can only think of the 10's of thousands of sailors whose last view of their ships was similar, except it was far out at sea during the great war...and there were dead and wounded everywhere.
Glad to see Drach on the channel. I'll be following his exploits in the US on UA-cam, I'm pleased to see you guys collaborate. Keep up the good work! I
Just heard about this in the national news. Some how the navy or federal government should provide funds & free dry dock every so many years. Can remember you telling us that the New Jersey needs to go to dry dock in next few years. Thanks for the great vids.
I cant understand why nobody uses cathodic rust protection... Its common on old cars in storage and some ships, using a small electric constant current and a sacrificial block of metal on the hull to rust instead of the hull itself. Its much less expensive than what repairing this will now cost!
@@HarborLockRoad Think that I saw some ships use scarifier zinc bars bolted below the water line to help control rust but think what you mentioned would be the best method.
@@JohnThomas-lq5qp Cod had her anodes replaced. Turns out anodes are different for fresh water vs salt water, she originally had the wrong ones. Check out amigodiver channel, he was involved with the Cod drydocking, has several videos on it.
@@SteamCrane Thanks. Never know that they had different types of fresh water and salt water. Before retiring used to kid a navy vet. Told him that the docked New Jersey moves more then his company supplied tool cart. Called it the US never sail. I worked in a large slaughterhouse years ago that had a huge hide cellar where they stored thousands of salted hides along with a 30 ton open salt pit. Rust was a big problem. We started installing anti corrosive blocks inside of electrical waterproof boxes to prevent interior from rusting. We tried using aluminum conduit but salt pitted holes in it.
Destroyer hull plating is thick enough to keep out water and *most* of the fish. More seriously: A WW2 destroyer's hull plating could be penetrated by a standard M1911 .45-caliber pistol (albeit with very little effect since a half-inch hole isn't much of one on a ship).
Ryan - for New Jersey, do you have active alarms that can warn of water ingress? Most of the videos of New Jersey's "nether regions" we see, a lot of the doors are open; you'd have to get way ahead of any flooding by closing doors and you don't have a thousand+ crew on board to do it for you ...
The only one I can remember is they have floats installed inside the compartment that houses the propeller shafts if the membranes start to leak that will set off alarms if moved. I’m sure there are others but that’s the obvious one that comes to mind, there’s probably a similar system in the bilges too.
@@LogicalLube They're not, afaik. The manhole covers into the bilges have been replaced by grating to keep people from falling in but allowing air to circulate for dehumidification. In other news, sad that this had to be Drach's first video of the long-awaited US tour.
Both ships I was stationed on, one a WWII era and the other Vietnam era, both had bilge alarms for every compartment. I can't imagine a ship like the NJ doesn't have this as well with a remote enunciator.
I live close to the Buffalo navel memorial and museum. It's an awesome display and something we all can appreciate. I encourage anyone coming to the Niagara falls area to take the time to do the tour. The Vincennes is there as well. It's a great chance to educate you and yours.
Funnily enough I finished Drach's 3-part "Pearl harbor salvage" videos earlier today. While the circumstances are different, it makes you appreciate the amount of work needed to refloat a ship.
I live a few blocks from the magnificent vessels in the park and I thank you guys for bringing attention to The Sullivans' difficulty. Yes, funds were raised last fall for hull repairs this spring. A full million (not a half). According to local media, repairs scheduled over the winter were to begin yesterday, MON APR 18, but that just wasn't soon enough. (Talk about "a day late, a dollar short.") Once again, thanks to everyone who pitches in.
I was just in Buffalo last summer to tour it and the poor Croaker was listing too. 😔 Hope it can be saved. Thank you Ryan for donating and providing the information
I've visited The Sullivans many times, since I live an hour away, and I'm really disappointed to see this, but I'm not surprised. I wish I could do more to support them. I know resources are an issue. At least I can be thankful that she's in better shape than Moskva.
You can tell those two can talk shop all day and have the time of their lives doing it. Also, that is not what I thought Drach would look like. But, of course he looks like a sailor. 🤣🤣🤣
Prior to this incident, what areas inside the USS Sullivans were taking on water? Was the flooding occurring in the main engineering spaces? The amount of list shown by todays photos suggests to me that the main spaces have partially flooded as the ship appears to be settling to STBD equally from bow to stern. I served aboard DDG-8 and was On Scene Leader for the Repair 5 crew.
@@wll1500 The hull had been deteriorating very badly for years. River ice on the Buffalo river has done a number on her water line. She had a severe list last fall leading to a campaign to raise money for repairs. The issue is that the Buffalo river freezes after a certain point in the year, so repairs had to be stopped for winter. It was my understanding that they were set to resume in the next week or two, but this ended up being 1 winter too many and something gave way in a more significant way
3/8" is a throw away thickness, used for vessels with a deliberately finite life, such as barges. It should have been set on hard dry mounts on terra firma, and not left in salt water.
Weird how I pictured Drach so much different. In a good way. Generally whenever I hear or see Drach has a new video or he’s on a different channel being interviewed I’m in. He’s one off must knowledgeable people on military ships of the past. Much respect.
I saw the brief news report about this a few hours ago and got the impression it was sunk as so many ships are of retirement age, to become an artificial reef at the bottom of Lake Erie. Boy was I wrong. I hope it can be saved, just as the US Cod, a military Submarine here in Cleveland, was saved. Also,. that is a very impressive model behind you!
Im sure it can be saved. Its sitting on bottom, with only part of the starboard deck underwarer. If the divers can get the hole patched, it shouldnt be too hard to refloat her. The real problem is getting the money to fix the problem for good.
Thank you to Ryan and Drachinifel for getting the word out about USS The Sullivans. As of now, expert opinion is she's settled in her current position. An assessment plan with a local marine company in conjunction with the US Coast Guard is being developed. This plan will take into account the stresses to the hull, and to ensure that she is raised evenly. We will be giving updates on our UA-cam channel. Thank you again to both of you, and other ships in the museum fleet who have reached out to offer resources.
@@Jpdt19 All the museum ship's have shown support for us, and we would do the same with them! The more the word can get out, the much better! Thank you Jpdt19
She still looks like she's fighting it, though. I suspect if they get the funding she will pull through. There's a lot of work to do before then, though.
I can't possibly be the only one to think of it, but I'll ask anyway, have museum organizations considered the possibility of pooling the resources and hiring or purchasing a floating dry dock that would be able to facilitate specifically museum needs? They could also offer it for commercial purposes to offset the costs and bring in revenue for the museums.
That is a brilliant idea. But - wouldn't they need at least two? One on each coast? Or could a "floating dry dock" go through the Panama Canal? Edit: I am a civilian with no boating experience of ANY kind.
that would consume every museum ships budget in the entire country and still be short on funds. it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to build a drydock boat of that size and keep it serviceable. still need to pay for the repairs on the boats too. it doesnt solve the core issue that these boats take lots of money to maintain. the cost of dry dock cannot be maneuvered around.
As someone familiar with maritime business this proposal makes no business sense. Operating such a drydock in such manner is unlikely to be profitable. Moreover, museum ships do not need to be dry-docked often. Best to use the existing dry-docks located near major ports and finance the repairs with federal or state public funding.
@@julieenslow5915 good point. It has been done, but I suspect a dock large enough for an Iowa may be too much for the locks. It's all about design. The expanded canal can handle "1,215 feet long and 168.14 feet wide". So, maybe. But the transit time and cost is a question. A newly built dry dock that would handle an Iowa class battleship was constructed last year at a price tag of 40 million. But that included all of the cranes and things of that nature, as well as being self driven (it's basically a ship itself). A yard in Newport Beach has one big enough for the Iowa for sale currently for 2.5 million. But it does not have all of these amenities. It is a barge type dock that must be moved by tug. Having something like that on one coast might be cost effective, with certain offsets. Having the self propelled variety, not so much. For the record I am no more than an amateur in the business. I've raised small vessels, say 50', and I qualify for a 100t license (which is not much compared to even a destoyer) but I don't bother because I don't do it for a living.
@@jordaneimer2873 Yeah what it would cost to move the thing around and keep it serviceable I do not know. There's a reason they retire older crafts. I know you can get one use for a couple million dollars. If you were trying to build a new unit, that'd be ridiculous. And of course economy of scales doesn't work in favor either. You can get one big enough for an Iowa for 2 and a 1/2 million or you can get one big enough for a Fletcher class for about 2 and a quarter million. But yeah you would still have the cost of moving it around get around and maintaining it.
You guys are great. Now it looks like we have a real bonified museum ship community that's apportion each other which will go a long way towards saving a greater number of these historic ships.
This is what UA-cam should be. 2 of my favorite naval historians together. Even better is the the British /American perspectives. Wonder if Drach would like to be curator of a ship?
One of the problems of these museums is that when they start up they never dedicate a portion of their income to hull maintenance. They think that the hulls will last forever without any attention. A long term plan for the future is a must.
At least in Buffalo, the ships are in fresh water, so the corrosion isn't quite as bad as it would be in salt water. USS Texas is having similar issues, though as I understand it they plan to move her to a permanent dry mooring, so the hull corrosion problems can be properly dealt with.
@@drtidrow The problem with being in fresh water is that the hull corrosion takes place at the water line where the air works with with the water to create rust in a very narrow area. Having zinc anodes doesn't help.
@@markgruenberg6277 I would think that would make it somewhat easier to repair, if the corrosion is in a narrow strip at the waterline. Also, I wonder if salting the roads in the winter and the subsequent runoff is making the water around the ship a bit brackish, exacerbating the corrosion problem. I had to replace a chunk of floor pan on my daily driver, to replace the rusty section likely caused by salty Michigan winter roads. :-)
HMCS Haida had similar issues but the millions were found for a hull repair. Honestly, for a museum ship, would it not be less expensive to build a dry berth?
Haida is now owned by the Canadian government and underwent a $5 million CDN hull refurbishment. Hopefully The Sullivan's will have a similar life extension in the future.
Thanks Ryan and Drach, The USS The Sullivans is one of the most important WWII vessels. The Sullivan Brothers symbolize so much loss, especially for just 1 family. You two, are the equivalent of Rock stars in the naval historiography, by making this video you are truly helping the Buffalo Naval Park in a big way. Your fan base consists of great people and they will help, now that we know. Thank you
Thank you Ryan for this video. I can send you pictures taken by myself today around 11AM showing the list if you would like to use them. I volunteer on the Sullivans to help restoration, its a sad day. thank you again for your support!
9:36 For the Clamagore (instead of scrapping or sinking) is there a possibility to, for example, put her on land? My take was to cut her up in 4 to 5 pieces and transport her to the Hunley museum, arranged in a way where visitors can walk through the Clamagore and have her there near the Hunley as a comparison of the first combat submarine to a "modern" one. Just an idea and I don't know who or where I should direct this idea to.
Last I had heard a couple of years ago, the idea was to turn Clamagore to an artificial reef. They would still have to restore her to transport (the commute on the Ravenel and 26 would not be fun) and display her properly on land.
I consider the name “Sullivans” significant because of the five Sullivan brothers. She’s not only a ship but a memerial to the five Sullivan brothers who lost their lives in the USS Juneau.
Im sure any money the govt could have helped preserve her with went to illegals instead.
“A letter to a Mrs. Bixby in Boston…’I feel how weak and fruitless must be any words of mine…’”
The five Sullivan brothers are STILL honored by the Arleigh Burke Class DDG-68.
@@ExUSSailor This was the first ship to honor the Sullivan Brothers and shouldn’t be left rot because there’s another. The ship was sponsored by the mother of those brave boys. I never want to hear that There’s another because there isn’t.
She has to be saved or new ship
Never having seen Drach, he is so much more burly and Blackbeard-looking than I’d expected. I don’t know why, but being as well informed and knowledgeable as he is, I expected some tweedy, bespectacled, fair-haired Professor type. This dude looks like he should be on the bridge of one of those Jutland battleships!
Same. I would have never guessed that guy to be Drach.
He looks like Bluto!
One of Drach's hobbies' is medieval re-enactment. Sometimes they practice fight, by actually hitting each other with big sticks. Though they practice finesse, the bigger guys then to do better. Here's one of his videos with Matt Easton of the Scholagladiatoria channel:
ua-cam.com/video/JN0reIIb4SE/v-deo.html
Just a heads up about Drach, he usually appears on his channels live stream "Dry Dock" episodes. Also has a tendency to talk more if you keep the Iron Bru flowing.
I definitely thought he would be an old geezer
Welcome to the states Drach. Glad you, Mrs. Drach, and the crew are here and hope you have a great visit.
I will second that.
Glad to see Drach and Ryan finally meeting.
Did Mrs Drach make it in? I know she was having issues getting a visa due to US red tape.
Oh man this is an awesome collaboration.
@@theMoerster - I believe Drach mentioned that was resolved in the channel admin section of a recent Drydock.
I saw about USS The Sullivans and immediately thought I wonder when Ryan and or Drachinifel will put out a video about this. HA! good to hear from my 2 favorite youtube navy channels.
me too lol
Yeah, The Sullivans being (permanently) lost would be a true shame...
@@daminox I was just going to post the same thing
Mine too.
I think we all were
As another note, now that I watched the whole video, the destroyer I served on in the 80's (USS Robison DDG12) was less than 30 years old when we went into drydock for a 3 month overhaul. While in drydock a yard worker using a needle gun broke through the hull in a rusty spot, about 10 feet below the waterline. Always made me wonder how many more spots were like that- "rust, paint, and dreams".
Come on swab. You know the Navy motto. Once over dust, twice over rust.
@@stanstenson8168 Retired USN here, can confirm.
@@stanstenson8168 I was a hole snipe. Never had much use for a paint brush.😄
@@SMOBY44 Lucky man. It never occurred to me who did all the painting when I joined. Found that out pretty quickly.
Similar thing happened on USS Hancock (CVA 19) in 1974. Hanna was 30 years old at the time. The hole was just above the water line. NAVSEA was called in and the whole hull was xrayed looking for more damage and to determine if the ship was safe enough for one more cruise/deployment. Guess what we made one more major cruise/deployment.
My ship was USS Hugh Purvis, DD 709, a Sumner, built in 1945. I served during 1968-1971 and her hull was beginning to rust right through in places. It is un nerving to have water coming in out at sea.
Technically it's on a lake.
I was on the CVN 74 USS John c stennis
@@richardm3023 OP was probably out at sea when his ship was leaking.
@@c182SkylaneRG it's leaking like biden's diapers.
I can beat that. My ship, the USS McKee (AS-41) was commissioned in '81 and by '87, had fist size rust holes at the waterline. Probably why she was decommissioned in '98 or '99.
A collab between you two?! NICE!!! I had hoped it would happen one day.
Right as soon as I opened the video and saw drac there I screamed oh shot its happening
Hello there lord and savior
It is a shame that the subject was about this event. Looking forward to the other videos that delve into history topics.
We can never let this happen to Kidd!! ..welcome to the U.S. drach, respect to Ryan for that huge donation
The Kidd is in a special cradle. Sometimes she's in the water and others she's floating in the cradle
So sad to learn of The Sullivans sinking in Buffalo, New York. My father was a Signalman 3rd Class on the Fletcher class Destroyer Boyd DD - 544 in 1943. I am a supporter of The Tin Can Sailors Association which in turn supports all museum destroyers. I urge all who can support The Sullivans to do so and help to save this historic ship.
I just want to thank the people at the New Jersey battleship museum and memorial for for recognizing the significance of the USS the Sullivan's. I live in Western New York and as a young boy my Uncle took me to the naval park where I got to see the Sullivan's along with the Little Rock and Crocker. Buffalo New York is truly lucky to have such amazing museum ships I know it's much harder to maintain 3 ships as opposed to one, but they are So important as reminders to us and future generations of Americans. These ships stands for how we fought and how the men and women who crude during their active service time survived and fought on a daily basis. Ryan thank you so much for your donation To help refloat and restore one Of Buffalo New York's historic treasures. Thank you.
My family and I toured The Sullivans Wednesday at around noon, apparently about 12 hours before the list was seen. We took a bunch of photos at that time if they would be useful. At that time, you could not board from the shore because of the angle of the gangplank. We were told the river was down two feet, making gangplank unlevel with shore. The gangplank was certainly way off of normal, and the ship is now leaning more that way.
So you broke it, didn’t you. Lol just kidding bud.
@@tarn1135 It WAS 'bring your limpet mine to work day'.
@@jimdennis2451 Actually, it was "bring your cheery British 'Operation Cerberus' mine to work day" (referencing the relevant Drach video here: ua-cam.com/video/QNE0CkSsfJc/v-deo.html )
@@jimdennis2451 was that an Incredible Mr Limpet reference?... As seen on WKBWs "Movie for a Sunday Afternoon"?
The river was down 2 ft? Wouldn't that make Lake Erie down 2 ft as well as the other 3 lakes up stream of Detroit?
As a Buffalo resident, thanks you for getting the word out. You two are the war ship guys.
Love both your channels
I was excited to see Drach and Ryan Collab . Unfortunately some sad circumstances happen.
These ships are still at war, even in "war times" as many ships are lost to the environment as to enemy fire. Anyone who follows drach knows the only greater threat is budget!
The news today on the ship , is encouraging . Mary Babiec
Well, now it all makes sense. Drach has made enough videos showing his theoretical knowledge of ships and how to operate them efficiently, Ryan knows every bit of NJ, so, with distraction in form of The Sullivans taking all the attention of media they will have great opportunity to assemble a prize crew and set sail with New Jersey :)
YESS
Not happening but love the idea
With the number of Drach fans that went out to meet him that shouldn’t be hard
Nah, drach wants Haida
@@andrewhalo100 He would probably want to head for Poland too to"aquire"Blyskawica
@@Ebolson1019 Battleship New Jersey has some volunteers already. Drach will just organize an innocently looking "meet and greet". A full complement of senior and junior crew in a matter of hours. Veterans who served in the gulf war will become instructors and before you know it, tugboats are repositioning her to the open sea :P
That's awesome Drach!!!!
I went to the Erie Naval Park link and donated. They have the option to specify which ship. I recommend anyone who can should help out!
Glad to see Drach stateside and visiting USS New Jersey
This is the second greatest event in my life, coming in just behind my wedding day. Drachinifel and Ryan in THE SAME VIDEO!!!!! I hate that the topic has to be so depressing though.
I've said it before, I think it's absolutely amazing how much time and effort Ryan and the NJ team put into promoting and highlighting the plight of other museum ships.
It would be so easy to keep the success of the channel to themselves but they don't. USS New Jersey may be retired, but that isn't stopping her from continuing to proudly support and protect her fellow ships.
When I heard the news, I was left in tears knowing I went to her and been wanting to go back
Hopefully Sully can be rescued
SAVE OUR SULLIVANS
THANK YOU ! Thank you Ryan and Drachinifel for what your doing for helping us get the word out. I have been working on the Sullivan's to help preserve her. I have been visiting the Buffalo Naval park my entire life. Today was heartbreaking to say the least. My hats off to the both of you for your dedication to educating the public and for your efforts to preserve our world naval history. Your efforts are worth their weight in gold! If we choose not to learn from our history, we are only destine to repeat the same mistakes as the past............ Sincerely, A Heartbroken supporter
OMG! The Drac himself. Most out there commentator on You Tube. What a pair, Ryan and Drac. Fantastic! Made my day!
That's the collaboration I've been waiting for!
Just discovered Drachinifel's excellent channel while researching Type IX U-boats ... looking forward very much to his updates on the restoration of U-534.
You can spend the next few months watching Drach’s channel 24/7 and still have more videos to watch, and they are all outstanding~
Have fun with his DryDock, battle videos and special interviews
Hopefully you don’t have anything to do for awhile..
The Canadian vessel HMCS Haida, which sat at Ontario Place in Toronto. Also had issues was taken to the drydock in Port Weller. The Haida was repaired and is now back afloat in Hamilton, Ontario.
My two favorite YT creators. Hard to find your passion and commitment. Thanks gentleman!
What a fantastic job being curator on the USS New Jersey!!! That would be a dream job!
Two channels I’ve been following and hoping would collaborate since I found them. Hope you two work together more in the future!
This shows the importance of what you guys do, and our duty to donate to these wonderful museums.
Sad to hear about The Sullivans.
We just got our museum ship, Orleck. Cant wait to check it out.
Great to see a video with both of you! Terrible circumstance tho!
I've already sent some money today as soon as I heard. I didn't send $1k but I got half that. If you can't get there to help please send a few dollars if you can. _Everything_ helps.
Thanks so much, Ryan and Drach for helping to get the word out. USS The Sullivans is an historic ship and we just can't lose her.
They didn’t, really. The whole world was talking about this for 8 hours before this video came out.
@@blabbitch Well, there are people, like me, who don't follow the regular news channels. So, it is still spreading the word as wie a possible.
I was on the USS Corry, DD817, reserve destroyer in the back basin of the Philadelphia Naval Yard, February through December 1975 waiting for my slot at nuclear power school in Orlando.
My first job on board was to take a needle gun to the rusty bilges in the aft engine room. Within 10 minutes of chipping I punched a hole through a weld and they took away my needle gun while the back basin came on through.
The Corry was only 30 years old at the time. Can’t imagine it at age 78!
Ryan, this was great. Thank you for the link to the maritime park website. Sad but true about name recognition - though few ship names truly deserve better recognition than The Sullivans (perhaps if there had been a USS Four Chaplains?)
My last inspection of this DD was Oct 2012. Chief John Banning allowed me to follow him on his weekly "Leak inspection". As it was the last day of the season, the chilly air with sparse crowds afforded a once in a lifetime tour from stem to stern, foretop to bilge. Even on that cold Saturday visit, the "wind waterline" displayed several battlefield repairs. They don't call these Greyhounds of the Sea, "Tin Cans" because of their extensive hull thickness. My heart sank listening to the news she was resting on her Starboard.
Two of my faves together!
Bummer about the The Sullivan's, visited her last summer.
The complexities of keeping these old hulls afloat are legion.
It's great to finally see Drach and Ryan together in a video. Though I REALLY wish it was under better circumstances, though from the interviews they seem pretty confident they can pump her out and fix her. Lets hope.
Cheers Gentlemen, great to see you both together for the first time. You are the one bright spot in today naval news.
Omg. I'm subscribed to both your channels. My two favorite naval historians! Rian gives the short version and Drac gives the long detailed. What a perfect combination. Great to see you together!!!
Drachinifel is not a historian, he’s just a youtube amateur.
@@blabbitch I disagree with your assessment as Drach is an historian. Who has probably forgotten more about history then most of us will ever know
Here in Sydney, Australia on the 3rd of January 2022 we had a heritage ferry called Baragoola that sunk at it's moorings very similar to what looks like has happened with "USS The Sullivans". The main difference is that the upper portion of our ferry was made from timber and so as it sunk the upper part just collapsed and broke apart.
I am a volunteer at the Maritime Museum in Darling Harbour and we’re facing a similar situation with the Vampire with her hull becoming dangerously thin in some areas at most risk of springing leaks. She’s due for dry docking in September but she needs 3 months of work on her to strengthen and maintain her hull integrity.
But we have to do all that work in two weeks before the next ship is scheduled to go into the Captain Cook graving dock, which is borderline unrealistic for us to make the necessary repairs that the Vampire desperately needs. On the upside, the blokes over at Sydney Heritage Fleet have gotten the 1912 Sydney built K-class ferry Kanangra out of the water onto their floating dock yesterday and they have done a superb job with the restoration of the John Oxley
@@aniowaclassbattleship7257 thats concerning, we have so little of the historic RAN left
@@aniowaclassbattleship7257 Surely the RAN could provide free dry docking at Garden Island for what was once one of her ships to make sure it continues floating and not end up like Baragoola.
@@carisi2k11 Garden Island is a museum itself. It is not really operational.
So cool to see Drach on the channel!
Holly christ it's finally happened! My two favorite channels together sad that it's such unfortunate news I hope they get the Sullivan's all patched up
Same danged thing I said 😆..unfortunate the circumstances, but I think Buffalo will get a Lil bump of cash and love after this momentous Ep! (Next chat..Drach w/ Ryan at HMS Victory 🎉)
Thank you for the good news on the ship Mary Babiec
One can only think of the 10's of thousands of sailors whose last view of their ships was similar, except it was far out at sea during the great war...and there were dead and wounded everywhere.
Wish you were there.
@@csbgky144 What's your issue?
@@csbgky144 Wow...totally uncool!
@@csbgky144 Don't cut yourself on that edge
Glad to see Drach on the channel. I'll be following his exploits in the US on UA-cam, I'm pleased to see you guys collaborate. Keep up the good work! I
Happy to see my two favorite naval ship historians together. :)
Just heard about this in the national news. Some how the navy or federal government should provide funds & free dry dock every so many years. Can remember you telling us that the New Jersey needs to go to dry dock in next few years. Thanks for the great vids.
I cant understand why nobody uses cathodic rust protection... Its common on old cars in storage and some ships, using a small electric constant current and a sacrificial block of metal on the hull to rust instead of the hull itself. Its much less expensive than what repairing this will now cost!
@@HarborLockRoad Think that I saw some ships use scarifier zinc bars bolted below the water line to help control rust but think what you mentioned would be the best method.
@@JohnThomas-lq5qp Cod had her anodes replaced. Turns out anodes are different for fresh water vs salt water, she originally had the wrong ones. Check out amigodiver channel, he was involved with the Cod drydocking, has several videos on it.
@@SteamCrane Thanks. Never know that they had different types of fresh water and salt water. Before retiring used to kid a navy vet. Told him that the docked New Jersey moves more then his company supplied tool cart. Called it the US never sail. I worked in a large slaughterhouse years ago that had a huge hide cellar where they stored thousands of salted hides along with a 30 ton open salt pit. Rust was a big problem. We started installing anti corrosive blocks inside of electrical waterproof boxes to prevent interior from rusting. We tried using aluminum conduit but salt pitted holes in it.
i was surprised to hear that 3/8th of an inch would be the max hull plate thickness, i would have guessed a lot more than that. good vid, hi drach!
Destroyer hull plating is thick enough to keep out water and *most* of the fish. More seriously: A WW2 destroyer's hull plating could be penetrated by a standard M1911 .45-caliber pistol (albeit with very little effect since a half-inch hole isn't much of one on a ship).
@@rdfox76 a .45 won't penetrate steel even half that thick.
ua-cam.com/video/FRy0v3HojZk/v-deo.html
The colab we all were waiting for!
Ryan - for New Jersey, do you have active alarms that can warn of water ingress?
Most of the videos of New Jersey's "nether regions" we see, a lot of the doors are open; you'd have to get way ahead of any flooding by closing doors and you don't have a thousand+ crew on board to do it for you ...
The only one I can remember is they have floats installed inside the compartment that houses the propeller shafts if the membranes start to leak that will set off alarms if moved. I’m sure there are others but that’s the obvious one that comes to mind, there’s probably a similar system in the bilges too.
@@Kamina1703 I’d imagine those compartments are usually sealed at all times anyway (except for a video) for that very reason.
@@LogicalLube They're not, afaik. The manhole covers into the bilges have been replaced by grating to keep people from falling in but allowing air to circulate for dehumidification.
In other news, sad that this had to be Drach's first video of the long-awaited US tour.
@@DeliveryMcGee I was referring more for the compartments the gland seals are in specifically, not the bilges as a whole.
Both ships I was stationed on, one a WWII era and the other Vietnam era, both had bilge alarms for every compartment. I can't imagine a ship like the NJ doesn't have this as well with a remote enunciator.
Came for Ryan's take, over-the-moon to see Drach on his US vacation. Hi Drach!!
Thank you Ryan. Was hoping you'd get to this.
I live close to the Buffalo navel memorial and museum. It's an awesome display and something we all can appreciate. I encourage anyone coming to the Niagara falls area to take the time to do the tour. The Vincennes is there as well. It's a great chance to educate you and yours.
Funnily enough I finished Drach's 3-part "Pearl harbor salvage" videos earlier today.
While the circumstances are different, it makes you appreciate the amount of work needed to refloat a ship.
WHOA! How did I miss this video?! My two favorite naval historians in one place!!!!!!
Hate to hear about the Sullivans. But excited to see Drac on this episode! Love his channel as well.
I live a few blocks from the magnificent vessels in the park and I thank you guys for bringing attention to The Sullivans' difficulty.
Yes, funds were raised last fall for hull repairs this spring. A full million (not a half). According to local media, repairs scheduled over the winter were to begin yesterday, MON APR 18, but that just wasn't soon enough. (Talk about "a day late, a dollar short.")
Once again, thanks to everyone who pitches in.
I was just in Buffalo last summer to tour it and the poor Croaker was listing too. 😔 Hope it can be saved. Thank you Ryan for donating and providing the information
Buffalonian here. The Croaker list was blamed on silting, not leakage.
Good to see you two finally together, just wish it was under better circumstances.
I've visited The Sullivans many times, since I live an hour away, and I'm really disappointed to see this, but I'm not surprised. I wish I could do more to support them. I know resources are an issue. At least I can be thankful that she's in better shape than Moskva.
The new Buffalo football stadium was apparently more important.
Dude get over it.
@@30AndHatingIt 77 and loving it!
Can't wait for more collabs
You can tell those two can talk shop all day and have the time of their lives doing it.
Also, that is not what I thought Drach would look like. But, of course he looks like a sailor. 🤣🤣🤣
I live in Buffalo NY and I'm going to be taking a ride to the Naval Park to see The Sullivans today.
This was an awesome vlog. You two are our favorite naval guys. PLEASE do more things together!
Finally! I’ve been waiting for this collaboration!!
Prior to this incident, what areas inside the USS Sullivans were taking on water? Was the flooding occurring in the main engineering spaces? The amount of list shown by todays photos suggests to me that the main spaces have partially flooded as the ship appears to be settling to STBD equally from bow to stern. I served aboard DDG-8 and was On Scene Leader for the Repair 5 crew.
I see Drach finally made it to the states! I’ve been waiting for this match up for a while!
I’m surprised she is leaking so much that she’d sink within such relatively short timeframe. Wish the maintenance crew the best of luck with repairs.
The hull suffered a catastrophic failure overnight is my understanding. This wasn't a slow leak that they let get away.
@@wll1500 Good to know. Ty
@@wll1500 And they're using a garden hose to pump the water out!
A small old wooden 3-master used as a gentlemen's club sank one night to the bottom of the river. Fortunately not too deep.
@@wll1500 The hull had been deteriorating very badly for years. River ice on the Buffalo river has done a number on her water line. She had a severe list last fall leading to a campaign to raise money for repairs. The issue is that the Buffalo river freezes after a certain point in the year, so repairs had to be stopped for winter. It was my understanding that they were set to resume in the next week or two, but this ended up being 1 winter too many and something gave way in a more significant way
Glad to see this video!
Drach and Ryan finally happened...The wait has been so long! #thereanddrachagain
So happy to see you both in the same video!
3/8" is a throw away thickness, used for vessels with a deliberately finite life, such as barges. It should have been set on hard dry mounts on terra firma, and not left in salt water.
Buffalo river and/or Lake Erie is not salt water........
Thx4 stopping by Drach!
...hope you & Ryan make a few more vids b4 you depart.
My two favorite naval historians in one vid. AWESOME!
Drachinifel is NOT a historian. Making a fucking youtube does not make one a historian.
@@blabbitch classy
Weird how I pictured Drach so much different. In a good way. Generally whenever I hear or see Drach has a new video or he’s on a different channel being interviewed I’m in. He’s one off must knowledgeable people on military ships of the past. Much respect.
I saw the brief news report about this a few hours ago and got the impression it was sunk as so many ships are of retirement age, to become an artificial reef at the bottom of Lake Erie. Boy was I wrong. I hope it can be saved, just as the US Cod, a military Submarine here in Cleveland, was saved. Also,. that is a very impressive model behind you!
Im sure it can be saved. Its sitting on bottom, with only part of the starboard deck underwarer. If the divers can get the hole patched, it shouldnt be too hard to refloat her. The real problem is getting the money to fix the problem for good.
Day made glad you guys finally did a collaboration
Thank you to Ryan and Drachinifel for getting the word out about USS The Sullivans. As of now, expert opinion is she's settled in her current position. An assessment plan with a local marine company in conjunction with the US Coast Guard is being developed. This plan will take into account the stresses to the hull, and to ensure that she is raised evenly. We will be giving updates on our UA-cam channel. Thank you again to both of you, and other ships in the museum fleet who have reached out to offer resources.
Thank you for sharing this update here.
@@Jpdt19 All the museum ship's have shown support for us, and we would do the same with them! The more the word can get out, the much better! Thank you Jpdt19
@@BuffaloNavalPark I am very glad to hear that and my best wishes to you and your team in this challenge.
@@Jpdt19 👍
Two of my fav channels together... Excellent!!👍👍
It's my home ships. Got a text from my dad about it. I know it's been rough but sad to see her almost underwater.
She still looks like she's fighting it, though. I suspect if they get the funding she will pull through. There's a lot of work to do before then, though.
It’s horrible to hear what has happened to the Sullivans, but it is still delightful to see two of the best Naval history UA-cam channels to team up.
I can't possibly be the only one to think of it, but I'll ask anyway, have museum organizations considered the possibility of pooling the resources and hiring or purchasing a floating dry dock that would be able to facilitate specifically museum needs? They could also offer it for commercial purposes to offset the costs and bring in revenue for the museums.
That is a brilliant idea. But - wouldn't they need at least two? One on each coast? Or could a "floating dry dock" go through the Panama Canal?
Edit: I am a civilian with no boating experience of ANY kind.
that would consume every museum ships budget in the entire country and still be short on funds. it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to build a drydock boat of that size and keep it serviceable. still need to pay for the repairs on the boats too. it doesnt solve the core issue that these boats take lots of money to maintain. the cost of dry dock cannot be maneuvered around.
As someone familiar with maritime business this proposal makes no business sense. Operating such a drydock in such manner is unlikely to be profitable. Moreover, museum ships do not need to be dry-docked often. Best to use the existing dry-docks located near major ports and finance the repairs with federal or state public funding.
@@julieenslow5915 good point. It has been done, but I suspect a dock large enough for an Iowa may be too much for the locks. It's all about design. The expanded canal can handle "1,215 feet long and 168.14 feet wide". So, maybe.
But the transit time and cost is a question.
A newly built dry dock that would handle an Iowa class battleship was constructed last year at a price tag of 40 million. But that included all of the cranes and things of that nature, as well as being self driven (it's basically a ship itself).
A yard in Newport Beach has one big enough for the Iowa for sale currently for 2.5 million. But it does not have all of these amenities. It is a barge type dock that must be moved by tug.
Having something like that on one coast might be cost effective, with certain offsets. Having the self propelled variety, not so much.
For the record I am no more than an amateur in the business. I've raised small vessels, say 50', and I qualify for a 100t license (which is not much compared to even a destoyer) but I don't bother because I don't do it for a living.
@@jordaneimer2873 Yeah what it would cost to move the thing around and keep it serviceable I do not know. There's a reason they retire older crafts.
I know you can get one use for a couple million dollars. If you were trying to build a new unit, that'd be ridiculous.
And of course economy of scales doesn't work in favor either. You can get one big enough for an Iowa for 2 and a 1/2 million or you can get one big enough for a Fletcher class for about 2 and a quarter million. But yeah you would still have the cost of moving it around get around and maintaining it.
You guys are great. Now it looks like we have a real bonified museum ship community that's apportion each other which will go a long way towards saving a greater number of these historic ships.
Very strange day - I see news about USS The Sullivans and then turn on youtube and see two naval history superpowers at a table together 😳
Not to mention the Russkie cruiser sinking today in the Black Sea.
I love that this collaboration happened. I am so sad that it relates to a boat in my hometown. Thank you, gentlemen.
This is what UA-cam should be. 2 of my favorite naval historians together. Even better is the the British /American perspectives. Wonder if Drach would like to be curator of a ship?
Drachinifel is not a historian, nor is he qualified to be a curator.
Donated. New Jersey has over 100k subs now, imagine if everyone donated even 10 bucks.
One of the problems of these museums is that when they start up they never dedicate a portion of their income to hull maintenance. They think that the hulls will last forever without any attention. A long term plan for the future is a must.
if they have are operating on a shoe string budget then it is not possible to dedicate enough money towards the maintenance of the hull.
At least in Buffalo, the ships are in fresh water, so the corrosion isn't quite as bad as it would be in salt water. USS Texas is having similar issues, though as I understand it they plan to move her to a permanent dry mooring, so the hull corrosion problems can be properly dealt with.
@@drtidrow The problem with being in fresh water is that the hull corrosion takes place at the water line where the air works with with the water to create rust in a very narrow area. Having zinc anodes doesn't help.
@@markgruenberg6277 I would think that would make it somewhat easier to repair, if the corrosion is in a narrow strip at the waterline.
Also, I wonder if salting the roads in the winter and the subsequent runoff is making the water around the ship a bit brackish, exacerbating the corrosion problem. I had to replace a chunk of floor pan on my daily driver, to replace the rusty section likely caused by salty Michigan winter roads. :-)
@@drtidrow While the area is small, think of what it takes to treat the entire hull, both Port and starboard.
Well done, gentlemen. And welcome to the States, Drach.
HMCS Haida had similar issues but the millions were found for a hull repair. Honestly, for a museum ship, would it not be less expensive to build a dry berth?
Haida is now owned by the Canadian government and underwent a $5 million CDN hull refurbishment. Hopefully The Sullivan's will have a similar life extension in the future.
Thanks Ryan and Drach,
The USS The Sullivans is one of the most important WWII vessels. The Sullivan Brothers symbolize so much loss, especially for just 1 family.
You two, are the equivalent of Rock stars in the naval historiography, by making this video you are truly helping the Buffalo Naval Park in a big way.
Your fan base consists of great people and they will help, now that we know.
Thank you
Interesting. I'd always thought Ryan was quite a big lad, appears that Drach would be even lower velocity through a 16-inch rifled tube.
British 15" were always larger with a lower muzzel velocity than the 16" 😁
Wow !...cool to see Ryan and Drachinifel at the same time and place. I bet they could talk ships for days.
USS The Sullivans is just doing a fantastic Moskva impression.
Yeah, but that one’s not gonna be getting back out of the water anytime soon.
@@30AndHatingIt and they both are just as outdated
Thank you Ryan for this video. I can send you pictures taken by myself today around 11AM showing the list if you would like to use them. I volunteer on the Sullivans to help restoration, its a sad day. thank you again for your support!
9:36 For the Clamagore (instead of scrapping or sinking) is there a possibility to, for example, put her on land? My take was to cut her up in 4 to 5 pieces and transport her to the Hunley museum, arranged in a way where visitors can walk through the Clamagore and have her there near the Hunley as a comparison of the first combat submarine to a "modern" one. Just an idea and I don't know who or where I should direct this idea to.
Just discard it, it’s a shit idea and will never happen.
Should that name be "Clagamore"?
Last I had heard a couple of years ago, the idea was to turn Clamagore to an artificial reef. They would still have to restore her to transport (the commute on the Ravenel and 26 would not be fun) and display her properly on land.
Aww seeing you two together warms my heart lol
hopefully its easier to find a drydock for a destroyer than it is a battleship (though texas still needs one)
Thanks for the heads up.