Hello Drach, on many pre-dreadnaught and dreadnaught era battleships - there is a lattice walkway that wraps around the stern of the vessel. It is usually more ornately designed than other elements of the ship. What was this walkway for? Is it for officers? It looks like a holdover design element from classic age of sail ships when officers were quartered in the stern on their ships. What is piece of engineering and why were they gotten rid of?
Would the subsequent RN capital ship hull form designs have been evolutions of the Nelsons' or was the technology moving at a speed where the hull forms would have beeen started again, from first principles?
Would Rodney's more speed orinantated hull form have made increasing the ship's rated top speed easier in any hypothetical modernisation they might have received? I find it very interesting that their origin as G3/N3 successors influenced them that much and would like to know more about this.
I remember reading a book by Ludovic Kennedy - 'crew pouring bottles of olive oil into overheating shaft bearings'. So not normal power output then? Also, ISTR she had crates of spares for re-fit as deck cargo. And mention of USN senior officer as passenger, D-H invites him into Committee to discuss possible actions. Perhaps the Admiralty kept it confidential at the time and after?
Retired USN submariner, 1977 to 97, Machinist Mate in the Naval Nuclear Power Program. That whole episode speaks volumes about the professionalism, knowledge, and experience of Rodney's Engineering crew. It took a well-trained crew, who knew their plant well, and just how far they could push it - especially given the overall condition of the machinery - without causing a catastrophic failure - and still managing to keep the ship operational afterwards. During my 20 years in the engine room on submarines, there were times when we had to make repairs that normally would have required the services of a shore facility - but because we had good people that knew their job, we were able to pull it off. Your analogy with a car engine is spot on. If you don't stress your machinery when it isn't necessary, it will be capable of going above and beyond, and holding together, when it IS necessary. My respect to the Engineering crew of the Rodney. They were good lads and good engineers, none better.
Many lay ppl don't understand the importance of engineers & mechanics in war. If it doesn't move its just a pill box. If the driver is rough on the gear then someone has to work alot more to keep it running.
My dad was stoker petty officer on H. M. S. Rodney from April 1939 until Feb 1943. He mention that they had the engines going flat out whilst chasing the Bismark but no mention of people collapsing from heat exhaustion, though it might have happened. He said that after the action the deck plates were buckled from the recoil of the guns and the guns had to be resleeved. After leaving the Rodney he joined the light cruiser H. M. S. Jamaica and was on her when they sank the Scharnhorst.
Wow, I love hearing the personal accounts from people and their descendants that add such intimate detail to the epic events of our history that still affect our lives to this day.
@@JayVeeEss36 16:09 In the popular table-top wargame WARHAMMER 40,000 there is an elite unit called 'Terminators'. They wear Tactical Dreadnought Armour. The in-universe history for that armour says that it's design was based on suits worn by maintenance crews for Plasma-reactors, that would go into the reactors to fix them WHILE THEY WERE STILL RUNNING! I wonder if the story of poor Scouse Nesbit was the inspiration for that bit of lore!
I certainly hope that at some point the Chief Engineer spoke to the Captain through the voice tube to tell him in a Scottish accent "We can't keep up this speed much longer Captain. She's going to blow."
Captain: How much speed can you give me for the next one and a half hour? Chief Engineer: 23 knots sir! Captain: Could you give me 24? Chief Engineer: I think i can do 25 sir.
Lovely quote! Shame we never got much hint of Captain Sulu's further adventures on the U S S Excelsior (except that one look back by Tuvok on _Voyager_ ).
One of my favourite books as a kid was "Pursuit Sinking of the Bismarck" or something like that by Ludovik Kennedy?? The book described how Rodney basically maintained Radio Silence during that time and the Admiralty had no idea where Rodney was until she showed up at the perfect time and place.
I have a copy on the shelf beside me, and it remains one of my favourite naval books. Check out also Kennedy's book on Tirpitz - "Menace", if you can find a copy.
There's a section in 'Pursuit' where Tovey asks Rodney what is her best speed. The response was 22 knots, so KGV made this speed. A little later Rodney signalled "Your 22 knots are slightly faster than ours" upon which KGV slowed a little so that Rodney could keep station.
Back in the 70's I worked for a company that converted coal/coke fired industrial boilers to run on oil and/or gas. These boilers ran at nowhere near the pressure of warship boilers so I think we can assume they did not get as hot. Having been in the fire tubes of these boilers after they had been shut down and cooling for several days, I can tell you that were still too hot to be tolerated for more than a few minutes. . Scouse Nesbitt deserved a medal and a pension !
That's exactly what I thought- and a statue near the Pier Head I suggest. Maybe someone could suggest it to the City Council- I don't live in Liverpool.
Scouse used to wrap himself in wet sacks before entering the boiler, in addition to the fire hoses spraying water on him , after capping the tube he would receive a double tot of rum and a WEEKS EXTRA WAGE. Cheers
@tomjones7593 unfortunately they have turned against anything military and seek out any way to ignore or be reviled by any heroic actions. Statue of Ken Dodd, Villa black, the beatles but scouse Nesbitt, No !
The top speed of The Rodney was 25 knots She was originally designed as a twelve gun ship with more powerful engines but the terms but treaty terms meant that her superstuture was moved back and the rear turret was moved forward the rear end was so what stunted
The fact that Bismarck's violent disassembly of HMS Hood resulted in HMS Rodney's crew to running her engines to death to catch Bismarck and then virtually shaking the ship to bits with the violence of repeatedly firing her own massive guns is one of the best parts of this story.
@@Historyguy-xu5ht Every single lightbulb on the main deck shattered. People have argued with me over this, but I personally believe the stress it put the hull under is why Rodney suffered panting later in the war. Basically, she damn-near broke her back repeatedly firing her guns. If you think about it, the Nelson-class was a relatively small hull with very large guns grouped close together. The design might have been more durable with a conventional A, B, X turret layout instead of A, B, C.
@@SigurdStormhandI'm not sure about that. Rodney's design has all the main guns roughly near the centre of the ship which is the strongest part and the widest and most buoyant. A conventional A,B,X layout puts a lot of strain on the ship because turrets are heavy and there is less displacement at the narrower ends of the ship to support them. Also the stresses from firing would be acting on a weaker part of the ship.
@@philiphumphrey1548 Only X turret is roughly in the centre of the ship (also, why is it X, RN?), the stresses of firing the guns are actually concentrated forward, not amidships. In a more conventional design the amidships would be reinforced by the presence of the superstructure, and the shock of the main guns firing would be more distributed throughout the hull.
HMS Rodney and her crew represented what I associate with the Royal Navy. Bismarck was a clear and present danger. HMS Rodney did what was necessary to meet that danger.
They were demonstrating why Rodney had all of her main guns forward. A Royal Navy battleship's job was not to flee from the enemy, but to pursue and destroy them. it's the enemy that's meant to flee, and thus needs guns that can point backward.
@@georgesoros6415 John Keegan, in his book “The Price of Admiralty,” pointed out that many of the British officers at Jutland could trace their bloodlines to officers who had served under Nelson, and farther back in some cases.
@@RedXlV I believe the three turrets forward design was to reduce the weight of the armoured box, covering turrets, magazines, and engineering spaces, and thereby fit into the Washington Naval Treaty limits. Drach shows somewhere a previous design with three such turrets foeward and two aft.
I have no doubt that Rodney was able to make 25 knots in her dash to find Bismarck, or that she nearly flogged her machinery to pieces doing it. Chaps like young Nesbitt are the reason the RN had instances such as this happen. I hope he was looked after with a gong or two for his efforts.
gongs are meaningless, you can't eat them. Giving returning heros a roof, a job and some support was all that many desired. Far too many killed themselves after demob, Scotland for instance saw a 20% increase in male suicides starting from around 1947 and then dropped back by circa 1949 to the previous levels (Full demob didn't end until Easter 1946)
I have heard something about this story. The story I heard that when the Bismarck sank, the Captain of the Rodney sent his congratulations to someone who was most responsible for the incredible speed the engines were able to maintain only to be told that this man had finally passed out. The story of the HMS Rodney should be featured more prominently in the story of the pursuit of the Bismarck.
Upon completion my old carrier (Forrestal class) was designed for 36 knots. 35 years and multiple refits later we managed 32 for a 6 hour full power run. And yes, external cooling of several components was required. Amazing feeling of accomplishment from what would be her last set of work ups.
I like that the specs released to public on the nuclear ships is "at least" 33 knots. With how overengineered reactors are I wonder what the true max speed is, but I suspect it's limited by cavitation at the propellers.
@@TheJuggtroncavitation is only a problem when accelerating from low speed. The limit is actually the turbines. The reactors will produce much more steam than the engines can use.
HMS Rodney! I have a big soft spot for the old Rodbox. A prime example of going to war with the Navy that you have, rather than the Navy you want, to slightly twist a phrase. Even then, despite her age and condition, she and her crew did their duty in the best tradition of the Royal Navy. They sure don't build 'em like that anymore.
Seems like many RN ships ran on rage. Something inexplicably always happens. Running faster than expected? Enemy torpedoes failing for no reason? Front fell off? No problems, keep going.
That's the problem with this account. She could probably hit 21 on a good day. Additional nearly 20% of speed would require a huge power increase. The relationship is not linear. It's still a great story.
@@kurtpena5462 You forget all the talk about how much investment the Royal Navy made in underwater hull design, they designed the class to be able to run fast on little power compared to other battleships. And that hull was designed to do 23 knots with less power than other similar-sized battleships. Drachinifel explained it quite well. Rodney did almost 24 knots during sea trails, and sea trail speed tests are used within the specified safe zone of a boiler on light ship, a well-designed hull like the Nelson class will not be that affected by being fully loaded. that she hit close to 25 knots when they went over the designed safe zone of the boilers, here rated power at 45k hp was probably hitting above 50k hp when they pushed here. But we also have to take into account that HMS Rodney was quite light-loaded when she went after Biscmark, she was only loaded with AP rounds since she was originally on her way to USA for repairs and thus didn't need HE for shore bombardment, which saves here several hundreds of tones alone. To give an idea, a Steamship has relief valves (safety valves) just like steam trains have. on a steamship, they are set at 110%, 120%, and 130% of operating pressure, and you can bypass 10s and 20s, and run your turbine at about 125% of "normal operating pressure" it is when you take it over the 130% mark, things can get interesting and you really need to know your engine. So for example a 300psi plant can feed 375PSI to the turbines, or like some aircraft carriers that had a 1200psi plant, could run at 1500psi. That is the difference between, safe max operation pressure/speed. and absolute max redline pressure/speed
This is a masterful presentation! What a relief to hear an account that is illuminated by insight into the actual practical conditions of running a ship, rather than the regurgitated wisdom of secondhand narratives!
"Ride the 130's!" (Like the RMS Carpathia that fateful night she "bent on" 17 knots!!) A steam ship has Relief Valves (Safety Valves) at 110%, 120%, and 130% of Operating Pressure. You can Bypass the "10s and 20s" and run your Turbines at about 125% of "Normal Operating Pressure". Assuming a 300 "pound plant" this means that a ship would be feeding 375psi to her Main Turbines! (Or on the USS Saratoga (CV-60) that had a 1,200 PSI plant could run at 1,500 PSI...
@@TimMeinschein-j4s on an Adams class(1250 'normal') I saw more than 1400 several times, usually that was when we HAD TO BE SOMEWHERE, and duct tape every steam Guage outside the engine rooms would grow duct tape. Funny thing is, the snipes could TELL YOU what were asking their plant to do. We came out of edge of a hurricane to POINT YANKEE (the standing fuel point outside Norfolk. A helo clocked us at 29.5 knots through the water (three weeks before a shipyard period, without USN (NATO, only) maintenance for a YEAR!)
You've mentioned before that the Nelson Class had an efficient hull form. Thank you for providing some additional explanation and context to this. I'm preaching to the choir but more of our british naval engineering should have been preserved!
My dad served on the Rodney at time of the engagement with the Bismarck........ He saw some shit go down during his service, 32 years in the Royal Navy. Like all of these old matlows, they never tell you very much. I was always very proud of you Dad. I grew up to become an Army Commando.
My father-in-law, an engineer, spoke of Rodney in awed terms. Of men who served their apprenticeships building her, her engineering, armour, and her guns. They are all gone now, the men of my father-in-law's generation, the men who built the Rodney's and that fought for our futures. They left us a peaceful world that we have squandered, and soon our grandchildren will fight and die again. If only we had paid more attention to the cost they paid, our father's, we may have been better husbands to the future. Thanks for the history Drachinfel. We said we would remember, but, alas we forgot.
Very interesting topic, Drach! I particularly enjoyed the many photos of the ship from various angles, which revealed its very unique profile from many angles which I had never seen before. Thank you from Cleveland, Ohio!
My Grandfather was on the Rodney, and on these days mentioned, he was a petty officer, and in the engine room, was a stoker on previous ships, i have all his log books and paperwork to reflect this, so i bet he was extremely busy !
Q. How fast did HMS _Rodney_ go when chasing _Bismarck_ ? A. Very fast - speeded along with the righteous fury of all the Royal Navy ships past and present... Out to avenge the _Hood_ as tradition demanded. If a ship could speak, I imagine _Rodney_ making it to the final fight panting, puffing and throwing sparks from her seams to shout at _Bismarck_ "Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee"
I found it quite interesting. i. e., Standard Drachinifel, superlative for others.
Місяць тому+6
Having worked inside boilers on short turn around, I can personally attest to the heat. Each of us who went in had a rope tied to us in case we passed out and we were limited to 10 minutes per trip in with a 30 minute break and lots of water! On one occasion, the outside temperature was over 100 degrees, and when I came out of the boiler, I was shivering due to the difference in ambient temperature. (This was not a boiler on a ship, but an industrial boiler). I cannot even imagine having to roll or plug a tube under those conditions. We usually had at least 24 hours cool down time on the boiler, in the case of Rodney, sounds like we are talking an hour or less cool down. Simply incredible!
Scotty was my hero. I desperately wanted to enlist in the US Navy and become an engineer. Sadly, thanks to the ridiculous height/weight charts they were still using in the late '80s, at 6' 1" I had to be under 236 pounds to enlist. FYI I lettered in track & field at 245-250. Managed to diet and exercise myself down to 240 while I was training hard to be ready for basic training, but after that my weight went UP as I lost fat and gained muscle. FML.
Rodney's captain to his engineering chief: "Right. Bismarck's sunk Hood, and Admiralty has told me we're to make sure she sinks too. Now, *you* are going to do whatever it takes to make sure we get there to make that happen. Am I understood?"
Crawling into a boiler! As a midshipman, I was sent into a destroyer’s boiler to scrape the tubes after it had been cooling for at least 24 hours. There was also an “elephant trunk” blower. Hint: it wasn’t cool!
I'm a Yank and I always wanted to build a model of a Nelson-class ship, they looked so cool. How they ever made 25knots defies belief to me. Seems like the bow would just jump out of the water going that fast even with the armament up front. That being said I believe it's totally possible as Royal Navy captains knew how to handle big ships. Not sure if it's true but I always heard Rodney's guns polished off the Bismarck and KGV was basically backing her up. Great video. If only Willis Lee could have handled an RN battleship...
I've been hoping for a video like this, I've had many debates over Rodney's speed and now I can just send them here since Uncle Drach always explains things better than me
37 year Marine Engineer here. When It comes to the propulsion plant on a ship. There is what they are designed to do, what they can do, and what you can GET them to do! These three things are drastically different based on how good your engineers are. Hats off to her crew that made her go "So incredibly fast that stuff fell off"
Ex U.S. Navy Boiler tech here. Doing matinence on the boilers, like cleaning firesides of the casings and cleaning the water tubes was nasty enough even after the plant had been shut down for over a day. I can't even imagine entering the firebox to repair split or leaking tubes while underway, and entering the firebox after just a short time offline!!
"The Rodney is not old; no one would call her old. She has a bluff bow, lovely lines. She's a fine seabird: weatherly, stiff and fast... very fast, if she's well handled. No, she's not old; she's in her prime." - Some descendant of Captain Jack Aubrey
@@anglonorse2943 No worries, I'm just...disconcerted...that I did not spot it when writing the comment. I will now go and join the defaulters at eight bells.
Wake up babe, ship lore man dropped new lore Edit after watching the video: didnt know I had this question ever come to my mind, but oh boi am I glad you answered it nonetheless. Peak video as always
Your car analogy is interesting. When you started down that road I thought of my days racing in SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) over 25 years ago. Back then one of the most popular cars was the 1st gen RX7. As they got to the end of their life they got "looser", more rev happy and you could twist them just a little harder. How some of those cars past the sound check is past me. Back then from what I was told (I ran a Toyota MR2, then an Opel GT if FP) you had at most a weekend left in the motor before they fell off to nothing. You could tell by the sound a "new" engine vs one that was on its way out.
I ran my Series 2 RX7 in Targa Tasmania 1993 for 5 days with every gear change when the red line buzzer went off at 7000. 30 years later the engine is still running sweetly.
@@gregscally5119 I never drove one, just what the guys told me. In SCCA Improved Touring did not allow for many engine changes, Production is very different. Back then people called the engines $14k hand grenades. Just pure race cars and they all got rebuilds twice per season, and if you made the Runoffs you would do it again before that. None of these would go one year let alone 30.
That recounting of the engineers cooling overheated components reminds me of the old movie "You're in the Navy Now", where the crew were brutalising the entire power plant to meet the acceptance speed for the Patrol Craft they called "USS Teakettle". It was all fiction; or nearly all, for there was an experimental steam turbine PC.
kind of reminds me of rms Carpathia who's design topspeed was 15.5 knots with a service speed of 14kts but on her mad dash to titanic she got up to 17.5 knots due to having every stoker on board working boilers and all steam being solely used by the engines
@@AtomSmasher-l4b The safety valves are set at 110%, 120%, and 130% usually, and you can bypass 110 and 120 and run at 125%. 130%... well you need to know your engine, like your own pocket... a 300psi boiler delivering 375psi to the turbine. Or like on USS Saratoga CV60, 1200psi plant, producing 1500psi... basically a mini-nuke is something goes wrong
It is always good to see a well researched, fact based presentation. Well done, you. Too many "experts" cherry pick facts out of context and present as Gospel.
Born USN RAISED USN, USN Vet... the book says that a dhip CAN go so fast... when the steel starts flying engineers can/WILL find knots in their pocket! U.S.S. Samul B. Roberts (DE-413), Chief Engineer called her captain to inform him thst if he did not SLOW DOWN they would blow the engines out the bottom of the ship (his pit log (speedometer) said she was doing OVER 31 knots (on a DESIGNED speed of 29 knots). The Captains response? 'DO NOT BOTHER ME I AM ENGAGING A DIVISION OF CRUISERS!'
Consider instrument error a strong possibility. This is part of what is measured precisely during sea trials. You've owned cars with speedometers that didn't read correctly, I'm sure.
@@kurtpena5462 I do agree but a scared SNIPE (engineer) WILL find a few more turns, a little more pressure in that boiler, that 102(plus) percent pitch on variable pitch prop.
Great video. I have learnt all about the destruction of the Bismark, but normally this centres around the battle with the Hood and the subsequent attacks by aircraft. Loved all the detail about the Nelson's underwater design and speed efficiencies, really interesting thank you.
I had the privilege of hearing Dalrymple -Hamilton describe his pursuit of Bismark and he confirmed ringing more speed out of her than she was designed for! ( Incidentally he was at that time the highest ranking officer in the Royal Navy although at the time in reserve!)
Its worth mentioning that the crew in the engineering spaces, considering how pissed they were about losing the Hood, would have been doing absolutely everything possible to catch the Bismarck. They were highly motivated.
HOLY HELL. . . doing "hot" repairs on a boiler while the ship were underway is bad enough. Doing it while the boiler is merely in hot layup, just had the fire secured, and it's still at or near enough to operating pressure so that once you're done it will be back producing steam within a short time? Scouse Nesbit had great big brass ones. Covered in asbestos. And if he didn't get some kind of award there was something horribly wrong there. And all this overheating? It's happening in the frigging NORTH ATLANTIC. In May. My ship would have issues with engineroom overheating, but that was in the Caribbean, in the summer months. Not comparable AT ALL.
The Niagara Class steam locomotives were used 6 days a week. Men in asbestos suits went into the fireboxes to make repairs so they could do the maintenance one the 7th day. The boilers were kept hot, they just dropped the fires. Even by 1940s safety standards, this was viewed as nearly insane.
There is a Kipling short story called "the ship that found herself" about how all the bits a ship are just bits , with their own voice and story. One day, under the stress of a storm, all the bits start working together and the ship ends up with one harmonious voice telling its own story. I wonder what Rodneys story was as she thundered onwards under full power?
Many years ago we had an employee have a heart attack. We put him in the back of our new ford transit van (1975 V4) and boot'ed it to the hospital. We were in top gear foot to the floor screaming. That engine had a knock in it after that 1 drive.
The Nelsons are just the homeliest of all the battleships of the interwar period. Just like the designers were told, “work on the front part first and then go home until we get more money….”
Maybe even more "work on the killing things part first and we will figure out aesthetics later" and they never had the tonnage for later. Not the ship you want to be at fleet review, but whenever they were asked to do battleship things they did them superlatively.
As someone who has read about the First and only mission of the Bismarck, I never knew much of the British vessels that partook in the battle, outside of name and general class details. Frankly, hearing the tale of the HMS Rodney's engineering crew felt like it was ripped right out of Star Trek. The heroic feet they pulled off was nothing short of a miracle. It really makes those similar tales in Star Trek much more believable.
HMS Rodney feels like the kind of ship that Nelson's ghost would design: never run, charge at any opportunity, and bring as many guns as you can to every broadside.
Using the hull speed formula of 1.34 times the square root of water line length in feet, Rodney’s hull speed is around 35 knots depending on number used for waterline length (overall vs length between perpendiculars). 25 knots is well below her hull speed so it is entirely believable that a few thousand extra shaft horsepower wrung out of the plant would give you an extra 2-3 knots. Entirely agree with the submarine nuke’s comment above on the prowess of her snipes.
I don't doubt that she would have been limited by her theoretical hull shape. Hull growth and distorted hull plates would reduce that limit. By how much??? She was a bit of a bucket of bolts and would have been limited by other factors such as her goofy boilers and things like worn out or failed pumps and the like. How much power would be required to hit 20, 21, 22... knots? She was only rated at 45,000 SHP.
i still think an updated powerplant such as the French high pressure engines in Richelieu could throw a Nelson class up to 27knts , which is terrifying and hilarious. imagine swapping a QE or R class with an upgraded Rodney in a historical scenario ...
Excellent! My grandfather served in the US Navy in WW1 abord the Armored Crusier USS Colorado (changed to Pueblo) They mostly did convoy duty but since the ship had many of her secondary ^" guns removed and much of the coal had been burned at the end of the crossing, he stated the ship could do 24 knots with the wind behind them and even more with a favorable current. The slightly larger Tennessee was recorded as reaching 30 knots once in the caribbean. (maybe) Since Rodney put the "pedal to the metal," had certainly burned off alot of fuel and, if the wind and current were favorable, adding another 10% is possible for a short period.
Adding to the rather thorough development. Rodney was designed to 23 knots in tropical water. In colder water, her condensers would be more effective giving greater exhaust vacuum and more power.
I always imagined Rodney roaring into battle doing 25kts, unleashing devastating, full broadsides, and dodging incoming salvos with the agility of a destroyer.... then going limp at the end of it all.
I still think Rodney and Nelson are the best looking battleships ever built, by any navy! .... they were the Page 3 girls of battleships ... all the action up front! 😁
that's a weird way to spell Kongo but I'll admit, there's a certain unconventional appeal to the Nelson class's lines. Dunkerque did them better, though - if you're gonna do alt, you gotta commit.
Excellent work, Drach. I really don't understand why it's so hard for people to accept this course of events and the associated performance figures. Honestly, any straight reading of the matter will make this sequence of events perfectly clear to anyone literate and with a basic understanding of what these ships were.
More curious to know what speed did Hood reach when approaching bismarck. Because we know that the prince of wales reached 29.5 , but based on descriptions from the POW crew, Hood was increasing the gap, what means that it had to be running at at least 30, more likely 31. By 1941 Hood was usually hard pressed to go above 28.5 due to machinery issues, but generally after an overhaul/refit, it could still reach 31 as i did in 1940. Pretty sure that when running at bismarck the last concern was with the machinery. During it's trials Hood got to 32 knots, around 152000 shp but the machinery by design had at least 10% safety margin (as described in the manufacturer documentation). In addition Hood and POW had been running at 27-28 knots for hours , what is far from an economic speed, and therefore, Hood started combat with probably half tanks, so lighter. It had already lost about 1500 with some weight saving measures in the months before. So assuming Hood was going for broke in the last minutes , and considerably lighter than normal , what kind of speed could be achieved?
Nice - good point. Hood even though sunk did achieve it's goal in the BoDS, by inflicting damage on the Bismark (with POW). Bismark failed to achieve it's goals at BoDS as it didn't avoid damage. Could perhaps say those boys didn't die in vain, although at a terrible cost. cheers
Lots of sensible engineering stuff in here. Peak / occasional running above "full load" is often doable so long as the equipment is watched carefully, hot bits are cooled and there is an opportunity to repair afterwards. Trials ratings for WW1 Battlecruisers show lots of suh examples. It's also worth making the point that turbines will run continuously at high loads in a way that the pre-dreadnoughts' reciprocating engines never could; so the operational difference on a long run was much greater than the 3 knots speed difference which a recip could only hit on a "sprint" basis.
Hey, you never run a car harder then when you know you're gonna pull the engine anyway. The first thing that came to mind was my favorite image from one of the alternate history vids of the USS Texas blasting columns of fire and boiler components out of her stacks because she wasn't about to miss a good fight. I so totally could see that.
Priceless. Thanks much for the great documentary... and the laffs... oh Lord... one after the other... those regarding exceeding a boilers' tolerances and its potential effects gave me stomach cramps from the laffing. Much welcomed indeed. Have an awesome weekend Drach.
Many years ago I read a detailed account of Rodney chase in that account I remember it stating it exceeded 23 knots and at one point communication between it and KG5 was "Afraid your 18 knots is faster than mine" - since power goes up exponentially I would have thought 25 knots to be an absolute max with favourable winds for the Rodney Queen Anne bridge structure was almost a sail
Pinned post for Q&A :)
Hello Drach, on many pre-dreadnaught and dreadnaught era battleships - there is a lattice walkway that wraps around the stern of the vessel. It is usually more ornately designed than other elements of the ship. What was this walkway for? Is it for officers? It looks like a holdover design element from classic age of sail ships when officers were quartered in the stern on their ships. What is piece of engineering and why were they gotten rid of?
In your opinion, what is the most overlooked class of battleships? I mean their achievements and/or contributions to their navy?
Would the subsequent RN capital ship hull form designs have been evolutions of the Nelsons' or was the technology moving at a speed where the hull forms would have beeen started again, from first principles?
Would Rodney's more speed orinantated hull form have made increasing the ship's rated top speed easier in any hypothetical modernisation they might have received? I find it very interesting that their origin as G3/N3 successors influenced them that much and would like to know more about this.
I remember reading a book by Ludovic Kennedy - 'crew pouring bottles of olive oil into overheating shaft bearings'. So not normal power output then?
Also, ISTR she had crates of spares for re-fit as deck cargo. And mention of USN senior officer as passenger, D-H invites him into Committee to discuss possible actions.
Perhaps the Admiralty kept it confidential at the time and after?
Retired USN submariner, 1977 to 97, Machinist Mate in the Naval Nuclear Power Program.
That whole episode speaks volumes about the professionalism, knowledge, and experience of Rodney's Engineering crew. It took a well-trained crew, who knew their plant well, and just how far they could push it - especially given the overall condition of the machinery - without causing a catastrophic failure - and still managing to keep the ship operational afterwards.
During my 20 years in the engine room on submarines, there were times when we had to make repairs that normally would have required the services of a shore facility - but because we had good people that knew their job, we were able to pull it off.
Your analogy with a car engine is spot on. If you don't stress your machinery when it isn't necessary, it will be capable of going above and beyond, and holding together, when it IS necessary.
My respect to the Engineering crew of the Rodney. They were good lads and good engineers, none better.
Many lay ppl don't understand the importance of engineers & mechanics in war. If it doesn't move its just a pill box. If the driver is rough on the gear then someone has to work alot more to keep it running.
What boats?
"Haze Gray and Underway"!
If you were in the Atlantic '78 to '80 I may have helped track you...
@@TimMeinschein-j4s got to play around on a tin can I presume?
Did you ever serve with Captain Toti?
HMS Rodney's captain in Clarckson's voice: POWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRR
Unlimited Power!
THE SPEEEEEEEEEED!!!
WHAT A MACHIIIIIINE!!!!
In the shakesperian style. Horsepower! Horsepower! My kingdom for some horsepower.
*_Ramming speed_* !
It's not a Battleship. It's a Jaaaaaaaaaaag.
My dad was stoker petty officer on H. M. S. Rodney from April 1939 until Feb 1943. He mention that they had the engines going flat out whilst chasing the Bismark but no mention of people collapsing from heat exhaustion, though it might have happened. He said that after the action the deck plates were buckled from the recoil of the guns and the guns had to be resleeved. After leaving the Rodney he joined the light cruiser H. M. S. Jamaica and was on her when they sank the Scharnhorst.
Wow, I love hearing the personal accounts from people and their descendants that add such intimate detail to the epic events of our history that still affect our lives to this day.
Those guys were real men. o7
DA ..............Pop was a real Fighting Sailor..........like my childhood neighbor Chief Hancock USN !!!!!
I hope Scouse Nesbitt got some commendation.
It was the rowers who got heat exhaustion.
Rodney's machine spirits were greatly angered and demanded blood!!!
Praise be the Omnissiah, avenger of the Hood! Praise be the Motive Force, the engine of vengeance!
Blood?
That sounds a bid...heretical, guardsman.
*cocks bolter
Probably where the idea to put that poor chap from Liverpool into the boilers came from!
@@JayVeeEss36
16:09 In the popular table-top wargame WARHAMMER 40,000 there is an elite unit called 'Terminators'. They wear Tactical Dreadnought Armour. The in-universe history for that armour says that it's design was based on suits worn by maintenance crews for Plasma-reactors, that would go into the reactors to fix them WHILE THEY WERE STILL RUNNING!
I wonder if the story of poor Scouse Nesbit was the inspiration for that bit of lore!
The Emperor Protects!
I certainly hope that at some point the Chief Engineer spoke to the Captain through the voice tube to tell him in a Scottish accent "We can't keep up this speed much longer Captain. She's going to blow."
Pretty sure when the Captain asked for 23 knots, that same Engineer said, "Aye, and a wee bit more."
"'ahm givin' 'er all she's got cap'n, I jus' canna push 'eh any furtha"
The dilithium crystals were degrading. 😮
Captain: How much speed can you give me for the next one and a half hour?
Chief Engineer: 23 knots sir!
Captain: Could you give me 24?
Chief Engineer: I think i can do 25 sir.
Captain Kirk: Well just turn the bloody engines off. We're in a vacuum !
To quote Captain Hikaru Sulu: "Fly Her Apart Then!"
Lovely quote! Shame we never got much hint of Captain Sulu's further adventures on the U S S Excelsior (except that one look back by Tuvok on _Voyager_ ).
I am so happy to know it’s not only my mind that went there.
That show was always modeled on the Navy. How many times in history did men make wind, sail, and machinery do the impossible?
I love that line in Star Trek 6.
Excellent Captain and an elite crew sailing and fighting their ship beyond expectations. RN at its best.
Nelson Class BB Design Paper(HMS Rodney): “Maximum Speed is 23 knots”
Capt. Hamilton and British Crews: “Nuh Uh☝🏻🗿”
The target for ramming may be far away but who said that ramming speed can't be used to reach it?
Captain Dalrymple-Hamilton.*
Crews: "Was"
“That’s a suggestion… they have to put that on there.”
When the oil tanker lifts her skirts, she can run.
One of my favourite books as a kid was "Pursuit Sinking of the Bismarck" or something like that by Ludovik Kennedy?? The book described how Rodney basically maintained Radio Silence during that time and the Admiralty had no idea where Rodney was until she showed up at the perfect time and place.
Your memory is very close. Pursuit: The Sinking of the "Bismarck" and indeed by Ludovic Kennedy
I have a copy on the shelf beside me, and it remains one of my favourite naval books. Check out also Kennedy's book on Tirpitz - "Menace", if you can find a copy.
There's a section in 'Pursuit' where Tovey asks Rodney what is her best speed. The response was 22 knots, so KGV made this speed. A little later Rodney signalled "Your 22 knots are slightly faster than ours" upon which KGV slowed a little so that Rodney could keep station.
Back in the 70's I worked for a company that converted coal/coke fired industrial boilers to run on oil and/or gas. These boilers ran at nowhere near the pressure of warship boilers so I think we can assume they did not get as hot.
Having been in the fire tubes of these boilers after they had been shut down and cooling for several days, I can tell you that were still too hot to be tolerated for more than a few minutes. .
Scouse Nesbitt deserved a medal and a pension !
That's exactly what I thought- and a statue near the Pier Head I suggest. Maybe someone could suggest it to the City Council- I don't live in Liverpool.
Scouse used to wrap himself in wet sacks before entering the boiler, in addition to the fire hoses spraying water on him , after capping the tube he would receive a double tot of rum and a WEEKS EXTRA WAGE. Cheers
If you ignore any superheating, you should be able to check steam tables for how much hotter the boiling point is
@tomjones7593 unfortunately they have turned against anything military and seek out any way to ignore or be reviled by any heroic actions. Statue of Ken Dodd, Villa black, the beatles but scouse Nesbitt, No !
The top speed of The Rodney was 25 knots
She was originally designed as a twelve gun ship with more powerful engines but the terms but treaty terms meant that her superstuture was moved back and the rear turret was moved forward the rear end was so what stunted
The fact that Bismarck's violent disassembly of HMS Hood resulted in HMS Rodney's crew to running her engines to death to catch Bismarck and then virtually shaking the ship to bits with the violence of repeatedly firing her own massive guns is one of the best parts of this story.
If I’m not mistaken the toilets shattered when Rodney fired a 9 gun broadside
@@Historyguy-xu5ht Every single lightbulb on the main deck shattered. People have argued with me over this, but I personally believe the stress it put the hull under is why Rodney suffered panting later in the war. Basically, she damn-near broke her back repeatedly firing her guns. If you think about it, the Nelson-class was a relatively small hull with very large guns grouped close together. The design might have been more durable with a conventional A, B, X turret layout instead of A, B, C.
@@SigurdStormhandI'm not sure about that. Rodney's design has all the main guns roughly near the centre of the ship which is the strongest part and the widest and most buoyant. A conventional A,B,X layout puts a lot of strain on the ship because turrets are heavy and there is less displacement at the narrower ends of the ship to support them. Also the stresses from firing would be acting on a weaker part of the ship.
HMS Revenge steaming to intercept Bismark had she broken out towards the convoy lanes despite the ods is pretty good too.
@@philiphumphrey1548 Only X turret is roughly in the centre of the ship (also, why is it X, RN?), the stresses of firing the guns are actually concentrated forward, not amidships. In a more conventional design the amidships would be reinforced by the presence of the superstructure, and the shock of the main guns firing would be more distributed throughout the hull.
HMS Rodney and her crew represented what I associate with the Royal Navy. Bismarck was a clear and present danger. HMS Rodney did what was necessary to meet that danger.
They were demonstrating why Rodney had all of her main guns forward. A Royal Navy battleship's job was not to flee from the enemy, but to pursue and destroy them. it's the enemy that's meant to flee, and thus needs guns that can point backward.
And that is why Britannia ruled the waves for so very long. The men. And the attitude.
@@georgesoros6415 John Keegan, in his book “The Price of Admiralty,” pointed out that many of the British officers at Jutland could trace their bloodlines to officers who had served under Nelson, and farther back in some cases.
@@RedXlVI often hear this about the Nelsons. Problem is, only 2 turrets can aim when chasing.
@@RedXlV I believe the three turrets forward design was to reduce the weight of the armoured box, covering turrets, magazines, and engineering spaces, and thereby fit into the Washington Naval Treaty limits.
Drach shows somewhere a previous design with three such turrets foeward and two aft.
I have no doubt that Rodney was able to make 25 knots in her dash to find Bismarck, or that she nearly flogged her machinery to pieces doing it.
Chaps like young Nesbitt are the reason the RN had instances such as this happen. I hope he was looked after with a gong or two for his efforts.
gongs are meaningless, you can't eat them. Giving returning heros a roof, a job and some support was all that many desired. Far too many killed themselves after demob, Scotland for instance saw a 20% increase in male suicides starting from around 1947 and then dropped back by circa 1949 to the previous levels (Full demob didn't end until Easter 1946)
I must admit, this is one topic I have hoped Drach would cover. Thanks Drach
I have heard something about this story. The story I heard that when the Bismarck sank, the Captain of the Rodney sent his congratulations to someone who was most responsible for the incredible speed the engines were able to maintain only to be told that this man had finally passed out. The story of the HMS Rodney should be featured more prominently in the story of the pursuit of the Bismarck.
Upon completion my old carrier (Forrestal class) was designed for 36 knots. 35 years and multiple refits later we managed 32 for a 6 hour full power run. And yes, external cooling of several components was required. Amazing feeling of accomplishment from what would be her last set of work ups.
I like that the specs released to public on the nuclear ships is "at least" 33 knots. With how overengineered reactors are I wonder what the true max speed is, but I suspect it's limited by cavitation at the propellers.
@@TheJuggtroncavitation is only a problem when accelerating from low speed. The limit is actually the turbines. The reactors will produce much more steam than the engines can use.
@@FaustoTheBoozehound Finna turn those steam turbines into steam powered jet engines lmao
@@TheJuggtroncould be confidential info top speed
@@Eric-kn4yn Oh its definitely confidential. They list the same top speed for pretty much every nuclear powered ship.
HMS Rodney! I have a big soft spot for the old Rodbox. A prime example of going to war with the Navy that you have, rather than the Navy you want, to slightly twist a phrase. Even then, despite her age and condition, she and her crew did their duty in the best tradition of the Royal Navy. They sure don't build 'em like that anymore.
Rodney's engines were fueled by the raw anger and might of Royal Navy when she learned Hood died.
Seems like many RN ships ran on rage. Something inexplicably always happens. Running faster than expected? Enemy torpedoes failing for no reason? Front fell off? No problems, keep going.
That's the problem with this account. She could probably hit 21 on a good day. Additional nearly 20% of speed would require a huge power increase. The relationship is not linear.
It's still a great story.
HMS Rodney top speed 21 Knots on a good day. Top speed of 25 knots on a bad day, pending blood sacrifice of a fellow warship.
@@kurtpena5462 You forget all the talk about how much investment the Royal Navy made in underwater hull design, they designed the class to be able to run fast on little power compared to other battleships. And that hull was designed to do 23 knots with less power than other similar-sized battleships. Drachinifel explained it quite well. Rodney did almost 24 knots during sea trails, and sea trail speed tests are used within the specified safe zone of a boiler on light ship, a well-designed hull like the Nelson class will not be that affected by being fully loaded. that she hit close to 25 knots when they went over the designed safe zone of the boilers, here rated power at 45k hp was probably hitting above 50k hp when they pushed here.
But we also have to take into account that HMS Rodney was quite light-loaded when she went after Biscmark, she was only loaded with AP rounds since she was originally on her way to USA for repairs and thus didn't need HE for shore bombardment, which saves here several hundreds of tones alone.
To give an idea, a Steamship has relief valves (safety valves) just like steam trains have. on a steamship, they are set at 110%, 120%, and 130% of operating pressure, and you can bypass 10s and 20s, and run your turbine at about 125% of "normal operating pressure" it is when you take it over the 130% mark, things can get interesting and you really need to know your engine. So for example a 300psi plant can feed 375PSI to the turbines, or like some aircraft carriers that had a 1200psi plant, could run at 1500psi.
That is the difference between, safe max operation pressure/speed. and absolute max redline pressure/speed
This is a masterful presentation! What a relief to hear an account that is illuminated by insight into the actual practical conditions of running a ship, rather than the regurgitated wisdom of secondhand narratives!
"Ride the 130's!" (Like the RMS Carpathia that fateful night she "bent on" 17 knots!!)
A steam ship has Relief Valves (Safety Valves) at 110%, 120%, and 130% of Operating Pressure. You can Bypass the "10s and 20s" and run your Turbines at about 125% of "Normal Operating Pressure".
Assuming a 300 "pound plant" this means that a ship would be feeding 375psi to her Main Turbines! (Or on the USS Saratoga (CV-60) that had a 1,200 PSI plant could run at 1,500 PSI...
"She'll blow up!"
"Let her blow!!!!!"
@@jlvfr You still have a Relief (Safety) Valve... Just got to be tad more careful when increasing the fuel feed!
@@TimMeinschein-j4s safety?! pah! :D
But won't the Dilithium crystals crack?
@@TimMeinschein-j4s on an Adams class(1250 'normal') I saw more than 1400 several times, usually that was when we HAD TO BE SOMEWHERE, and duct tape every steam Guage outside the engine rooms would grow duct tape. Funny thing is, the snipes could TELL YOU what were asking their plant to do. We came out of edge of a hurricane to POINT YANKEE (the standing fuel point outside Norfolk. A helo clocked us at 29.5 knots through the water (three weeks before a shipyard period, without USN (NATO, only) maintenance for a YEAR!)
Can I just say these mini tutorials for square space make me want to make a digital portfolio with them
But do you also play raid shadow legends and eat factor meals 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You've mentioned before that the Nelson Class had an efficient hull form. Thank you for providing some additional explanation and context to this. I'm preaching to the choir but more of our british naval engineering should have been preserved!
My dad served on the Rodney at time of the engagement with the Bismarck........ He saw some shit go down during his service, 32 years in the Royal Navy. Like all of these old matlows, they never tell you very much. I was always very proud of you Dad. I grew up to become an Army Commando.
My father-in-law, an engineer, spoke of Rodney in awed terms. Of men who served their apprenticeships building her, her engineering, armour, and her guns. They are all gone now, the men of my father-in-law's generation, the men who built the Rodney's and that fought for our futures. They left us a peaceful world that we have squandered, and soon our grandchildren will fight and die again. If only we had paid more attention to the cost they paid, our father's, we may have been better husbands to the future. Thanks for the history Drachinfel. We said we would remember, but, alas we forgot.
@@davidarchibald50 Only certain people forgot. Freedom is only ever one generation away from being lost, be ready to fight.
17:08 I hope Mr. Nesbit got a medal (or better) for his efforts!
Can’t wait for the ‘Rodney’s Run’ episode if someone makes a Sink the Bismarck mini series. 😊
Very interesting topic, Drach! I particularly enjoyed the many photos of the ship from various angles, which revealed its very unique profile from many angles which I had never seen before. Thank you from Cleveland, Ohio!
The Chief Engineer deserves to be known by name for his work.
My Grandfather was on the Rodney, and on these days mentioned, he was a petty officer, and in the engine room, was a stoker on previous ships, i have all his log books and paperwork to reflect this, so i bet he was extremely busy !
"Captain, engineer reports 105 percent on the reactor possible, but not recommended."
Dalrymple-Hamilton: "Go to 105 percent on the reactor"
"Captain, where are we going?" "We're going to kill an enemy, Vasily. We're going to kill Lütjens."
Q. How fast did HMS _Rodney_ go when chasing _Bismarck_ ?
A. Very fast - speeded along with the righteous fury of all the Royal Navy ships past and present... Out to avenge the _Hood_ as tradition demanded.
If a ship could speak, I imagine _Rodney_ making it to the final fight panting, puffing and throwing sparks from her seams to shout at _Bismarck_ "Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee"
I see that you are a Melville fan.
Like Shakespeare, Melville is better in the original Klingon.
@@nmccw3245 I thought it was kahn who liked that quote.
My key takeaway, a liverpudlian mechanic sank the bismark! Get in there lad, quite literally!
I can't wait to watch this video! Thank you Drachinifel!
I found it quite interesting. i. e., Standard Drachinifel, superlative for others.
Having worked inside boilers on short turn around, I can personally attest to the heat. Each of us who went in had a rope tied to us in case we passed out and we were limited to 10 minutes per trip in with a 30 minute break and lots of water! On one occasion, the outside temperature was over 100 degrees, and when I came out of the boiler, I was shivering due to the difference in ambient temperature. (This was not a boiler on a ship, but an industrial boiler). I cannot even imagine having to roll or plug a tube under those conditions. We usually had at least 24 hours cool down time on the boiler, in the case of Rodney, sounds like we are talking an hour or less cool down. Simply incredible!
They do get hot!
As Scotty from Star Trek said. "All engineers are more conservative on paper."
Scotty was my hero. I desperately wanted to enlist in the US Navy and become an engineer.
Sadly, thanks to the ridiculous height/weight charts they were still using in the late '80s, at 6' 1" I had to be under 236 pounds to enlist. FYI I lettered in track & field at 245-250. Managed to diet and exercise myself down to 240 while I was training hard to be ready for basic training, but after that my weight went UP as I lost fat and gained muscle. FML.
The Omnissaih clearly favored Engineseer Scouse on that day.
That was fascinating, and a much more detailed explanation of what I had always thought happened with Rodney that I had ever thought I would find.
Rodney's captain to his engineering chief: "Right. Bismarck's sunk Hood, and Admiralty has told me we're to make sure she sinks too. Now, *you* are going to do whatever it takes to make sure we get there to make that happen. Am I understood?"
And Rodney was listening and thought to herself "Time to show them my stuff."
"England expects every man to do his duty!"
Engineer: "Sir, she'll fly apart!"
Captain: "FLY HER APART THEN!"
@@chrismaverick9828 😁😁😁😁😁
Crawling into a boiler! As a midshipman, I was sent into a destroyer’s boiler to scrape the tubes after it had been cooling for at least 24 hours. There was also an “elephant trunk” blower. Hint: it wasn’t cool!
Rodney: "You can be whatever you want. I, for example, identify myself as a fast battleship!"
I always wanted to be a Queen Elizabeth class when I grew up.
Kongo: funny, because I do too!!! 😅
@@andrewmcalister3462 QE was 23 so Nelson isn't far off
I think this is the first time I listened to/watched a Drach video that came out the same day 😂
I'm a Yank and I always wanted to build a model of a Nelson-class ship, they looked so cool. How they ever made 25knots defies belief to me. Seems like the bow would just jump out of the water going that fast even with the armament up front. That being said I believe it's totally possible as Royal Navy captains knew how to handle big ships. Not sure if it's true but I always heard Rodney's guns polished off the Bismarck and KGV was basically backing her up. Great video. If only Willis Lee could have handled an RN battleship...
Now just imagine it doing a wheelie with hotrod V8 noises
I've been hoping for a video like this, I've had many debates over Rodney's speed and now I can just send them here since Uncle Drach always explains things better than me
37 year Marine Engineer here. When It comes to the propulsion plant on a ship. There is what they are designed to do, what they can do, and what you can GET them to do! These three things are drastically different based on how good your engineers are. Hats off to her crew that made her go "So incredibly fast that stuff fell off"
Rodney was always my favourite ship, such a sexy design having 3 batteries at all at the front
Ex U.S. Navy Boiler tech here. Doing matinence on the boilers, like cleaning firesides of the casings and cleaning the water tubes was nasty enough even after the plant had been shut down for over a day. I can't even imagine entering the firebox to repair split or leaking tubes while underway, and entering the firebox after just a short time offline!!
I’ve literally grown up with the story of the Bismarck, and I’m still learning new things about it! Amazing video!
"The Rodney is not old; no one would call her old. She has a bluff bow, lovely lines. She's a fine seabird: weatherly, stiff and fast... very fast, if she's well handled. No, she's not old; she's in her prime." - Some descendant of Captain Jack Aubrey
Ahem, descendant surely?
@@anglonorse2943 ...damnit.
@@TomFynn Sorry, but, love the O'Brian reference
@@anglonorse2943 No worries, I'm just...disconcerted...that I did not spot it when writing the comment. I will now go and join the defaulters at eight bells.
@@TomFynn No rum ration for you!
I know Rodney is named after an Admiral, but all I can think of is Rodney Trotter from Only Fools and Horses or as Trigger would call it HMS Dave.
Wake up babe, ship lore man dropped new lore
Edit after watching the video: didnt know I had this question ever come to my mind, but oh boi am I glad you answered it nonetheless. Peak video as always
From HMS Warspite. To: RN Admiralty: I am loaning my Plot Armor to HMS Rodney's machine spaces for 24 hours.
Best Regards, WS.
She actually hit that record speed on a downhill.
And tailwind and flattened ears😂
@@peterkoch3777thanks to both of you for the laugh 🤣
@@peterkoch3777
Pub in sight
It can't have been downhill coz everyun knoes the erthh is flat
@@stuartburton1167 good point! 😇😁
Your car analogy is interesting. When you started down that road I thought of my days racing in SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) over 25 years ago. Back then one of the most popular cars was the 1st gen RX7. As they got to the end of their life they got "looser", more rev happy and you could twist them just a little harder. How some of those cars past the sound check is past me. Back then from what I was told (I ran a Toyota MR2, then an Opel GT if FP) you had at most a weekend left in the motor before they fell off to nothing. You could tell by the sound a "new" engine vs one that was on its way out.
I ran my Series 2 RX7 in Targa Tasmania 1993 for 5 days with every gear change when the red line buzzer went off at 7000. 30 years later the engine is still running sweetly.
@@gregscally5119 I never drove one, just what the guys told me. In SCCA Improved Touring did not allow for many engine changes, Production is very different. Back then people called the engines $14k hand grenades. Just pure race cars and they all got rebuilds twice per season, and if you made the Runoffs you would do it again before that. None of these would go one year let alone 30.
@@gregscally5119 my son's RX-8 is just nudging 300,000km. Definitely tired, but still starts ok and runs well.
Loved my “83 RX-7 GSL with its stock 12A. It was my university car and served me without fail until I sold it in ‘91.
That recounting of the engineers cooling overheated components reminds me of the old movie "You're in the Navy Now", where the crew were brutalising the entire power plant to meet the acceptance speed for the Patrol Craft they called "USS Teakettle". It was all fiction; or nearly all, for there was an experimental steam turbine PC.
kind of reminds me of rms Carpathia who's design topspeed was 15.5 knots with a service speed of 14kts but on her mad dash to titanic she got up to 17.5 knots due to having every stoker on board working boilers and all steam being solely used by the engines
Didn't they also do some seriously forbidden things like isolating the safety valves to run at a higher pressure?
AND all that by sailing through an icefield!!!!
@@AtomSmasher-l4b The safety valves are set at 110%, 120%, and 130% usually, and you can bypass 110 and 120 and run at 125%. 130%... well you need to know your engine, like your own pocket...
a 300psi boiler delivering 375psi to the turbine. Or like on USS Saratoga CV60, 1200psi plant, producing 1500psi... basically a mini-nuke is something goes wrong
Excellent video! The photos of HMS Rodney are superb.
Lago di Garda is one of the most beautiful places I have ever seen… enjoy it Drach!
It is always good to see a well researched, fact based presentation. Well done, you.
Too many "experts" cherry pick facts out of context and present as Gospel.
THAT was a HEROIC Effort .....from the Machinery Crew !!! wow
One almost believes in avenging spirits- Hood had three cancelled sister ships, one of which was called Rodney
Born USN RAISED USN, USN Vet... the book says that a dhip CAN go so fast... when the steel starts flying engineers can/WILL find knots in their pocket!
U.S.S. Samul B. Roberts (DE-413), Chief Engineer called her captain to inform him thst if he did not SLOW DOWN they would blow the engines out the bottom of the ship (his pit log (speedometer) said she was doing OVER 31 knots (on a DESIGNED speed of 29 knots). The Captains response? 'DO NOT BOTHER ME I AM ENGAGING A DIVISION OF CRUISERS!'
Consider instrument error a strong possibility.
This is part of what is measured precisely during sea trials.
You've owned cars with speedometers that didn't read correctly, I'm sure.
@@kurtpena5462 I do agree but a scared SNIPE (engineer) WILL find a few more turns, a little more pressure in that boiler, that 102(plus) percent pitch on variable pitch prop.
Great video. I have learnt all about the destruction of the Bismark, but normally this centres around the battle with the Hood and the subsequent attacks by aircraft. Loved all the detail about the Nelson's underwater design and speed efficiencies, really interesting thank you.
"SSPPEEED AND PPPOOOOWWWEEERRR" words of a wise man
I had the privilege of hearing Dalrymple -Hamilton describe his pursuit of Bismark and he confirmed ringing more speed out of her than she was designed for! ( Incidentally he was at that time the highest ranking officer in the Royal Navy although at the time in reserve!)
Its worth mentioning that the crew in the engineering spaces, considering how pissed they were about losing the Hood, would have been doing absolutely everything possible to catch the Bismarck. They were highly motivated.
HOLY HELL. . . doing "hot" repairs on a boiler while the ship were underway is bad enough. Doing it while the boiler is merely in hot layup, just had the fire secured, and it's still at or near enough to operating pressure so that once you're done it will be back producing steam within a short time?
Scouse Nesbit had great big brass ones. Covered in asbestos. And if he didn't get some kind of award there was something horribly wrong there.
And all this overheating? It's happening in the frigging NORTH ATLANTIC. In May.
My ship would have issues with engineroom overheating, but that was in the Caribbean, in the summer months. Not comparable AT ALL.
The Niagara Class steam locomotives were used 6 days a week. Men in asbestos suits went into the fireboxes to make repairs so they could do the maintenance one the 7th day. The boilers were kept hot, they just dropped the fires. Even by 1940s safety standards, this was viewed as nearly insane.
There is a Kipling short story called "the ship that found herself" about how all the bits a ship are just bits , with their own voice and story. One day, under the stress of a storm, all the bits start working together and the ship ends up with one harmonious voice telling its own story.
I wonder what Rodneys story was as she thundered onwards under full power?
I commented on another video once, " I love when, in stories like this, inanimate objects develop a personality."
Like King Theoden and the Rohirim "DEATH!"
@@jefferyindorf699 No. King Theoden later became Captain of RMS Titanic.
It would probably be incoherent screeching something like AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Many years ago we had an employee have a heart attack. We put him in the back of our new ford transit van (1975 V4) and boot'ed it to the hospital. We were in top gear foot to the floor screaming. That engine had a knock in it after that 1 drive.
The Nelsons are just the homeliest of all the battleships of the interwar period. Just like the designers were told, “work on the front part first and then go home until we get more money….”
I like how they look
They remind me of a Pacific Rim line,
"Heaviest and oldest Jaeger in the service, but make no mistake mister Becket, she's a brutal war machine"
Maybe even more "work on the killing things part first and we will figure out aesthetics later" and they never had the tonnage for later. Not the ship you want to be at fleet review, but whenever they were asked to do battleship things they did them superlatively.
@isaacdoggart4879 You, sir, mean the "killy bits" and "shooty bits," right?
@@isaacdoggart4879no argument there
As someone who has read about the First and only mission of the Bismarck, I never knew much of the British vessels that partook in the battle, outside of name and general class details. Frankly, hearing the tale of the HMS Rodney's engineering crew felt like it was ripped right out of Star Trek. The heroic feet they pulled off was nothing short of a miracle. It really makes those similar tales in Star Trek much more believable.
The men in the engineering rooms aboard Rodney that day, probably got as close to the fires of hell than anyone in recorded history before or since
I think, just maybe, the crew of the USS Franklin were quite a bit closer...
Idk I reckon the blokes on the Hood were a bit toasty for some time
HMS Rodney was always one of my favorite battleships, especially since it is my namesake.
Your first name is HMS?
Weird.
@@Katy_Jones 🤣😂
I get that a lot.
I thought it was Dave!.🤔🤔
Captain: "We need a volunteer to climb into a hot boiler to make repairs. Scouse, you're up!" 😅
Scouse: Aye Captain. But when you open up on the Nazis, you tell them who got you here.
So glad i work the night shft, so I can enjoy this first thing in the morning before I go to bed
While days sorts out your mess.
@@zopEnglandzip I found it like that. 1st's and 2nd's have beef and I just work there
HMS Rodney feels like the kind of ship that Nelson's ghost would design: never run, charge at any opportunity, and bring as many guns as you can to every broadside.
Fantastic documentary, covering my favourite battleship, when Britain had a real navy real ships and brave men
Using the hull speed formula of 1.34 times the square root of water line length in feet, Rodney’s hull speed is around 35 knots depending on number used for waterline length (overall vs length between perpendiculars). 25 knots is well below her hull speed so it is entirely believable that a few thousand extra shaft horsepower wrung out of the plant would give you an extra 2-3 knots. Entirely agree with the submarine nuke’s comment above on the prowess of her snipes.
I don't doubt that she would have been limited by her theoretical hull shape. Hull growth and distorted hull plates would reduce that limit. By how much???
She was a bit of a bucket of bolts and would have been limited by other factors such as her goofy boilers and things like worn out or failed pumps and the like.
How much power would be required to hit 20, 21, 22... knots? She was only rated at 45,000 SHP.
As always, your thorough analysis is greatly appreciated!
i still think an updated powerplant such as the French high pressure engines in Richelieu could throw a Nelson class up to 27knts , which is terrifying and hilarious.
imagine swapping a QE or R class with an upgraded Rodney in a historical scenario ...
Imagine those boilers in Warspite 😂
@@duanetapp1280 speed wasn't her problem, a thicker deck and all or nothing armour upgrade would be good though.
Just put Iowa's engine and maybe she could do 30knots 😅
@@jayvee8502 she, ships are always 'she' not he 👍
@@tonyfranklin8306 ok edited. Forgot ships are always addressed as she.
Excellent! My grandfather served in the US Navy in WW1 abord the Armored Crusier USS Colorado (changed to Pueblo) They mostly did convoy duty but since the ship had many of her secondary ^" guns removed and much of the coal had been burned at the end of the crossing, he stated the ship could do 24 knots with the wind behind them and even more with a favorable current. The slightly larger Tennessee was recorded as reaching 30 knots once in the caribbean. (maybe) Since Rodney put the "pedal to the metal," had certainly burned off alot of fuel and, if the wind and current were favorable, adding another 10% is possible for a short period.
Adding to the rather thorough development. Rodney was designed to 23 knots in tropical water. In colder water, her condensers would be more effective giving greater exhaust vacuum and more power.
To hold such machinery, so finely in the palms of their hands is pure engineering interpretational genius workmanship. These men deserve a Beer.
Critics: Drach is a false wizard! He got something wrong!
Drach: I cast “Facts!” Prepare to meet god.
Excellent choice of photos on this channel.
I always imagined Rodney roaring into battle doing 25kts, unleashing devastating, full broadsides, and dodging incoming salvos with the agility of a destroyer.... then going limp at the end of it all.
I still think Rodney and Nelson are the best looking battleships ever built, by any navy! .... they were the Page 3 girls of battleships ... all the action up front! 😁
You may be in a fairly small club there....
that's a weird way to spell Kongo but I'll admit, there's a certain unconventional appeal to the Nelson class's lines. Dunkerque did them better, though - if you're gonna do alt, you gotta commit.
Excellent work, Drach.
I really don't understand why it's so hard for people to accept this course of events and the associated performance figures. Honestly, any straight reading of the matter will make this sequence of events perfectly clear to anyone literate and with a basic understanding of what these ships were.
More curious to know what speed did Hood reach when approaching bismarck. Because we know that the prince of wales reached 29.5 , but based on descriptions from the POW crew, Hood was increasing the gap, what means that it had to be running at at least 30, more likely 31. By 1941 Hood was usually hard pressed to go above 28.5 due to machinery issues, but generally after an overhaul/refit, it could still reach 31 as i did in 1940. Pretty sure that when running at bismarck the last concern was with the machinery. During it's trials Hood got to 32 knots, around 152000 shp but the machinery by design had at least 10% safety margin (as described in the manufacturer documentation). In addition Hood and POW had been running at 27-28 knots for hours , what is far from an economic speed, and therefore, Hood started combat with probably half tanks, so lighter. It had already lost about 1500 with some weight saving measures in the months before. So assuming Hood was going for broke in the last minutes , and considerably lighter than normal , what kind of speed could be achieved?
Nice - good point. Hood even though sunk did achieve it's goal in the BoDS, by inflicting damage on the Bismark (with POW). Bismark failed to achieve it's goals at BoDS as it didn't avoid damage. Could perhaps say those boys didn't die in vain, although at a terrible cost. cheers
Hello Drach, your videos are always the highlight of my day.
This wasn't getting Rodney into gun range of Bismarck. This would be punch in the face range.
Lots of sensible engineering stuff in here. Peak / occasional running above "full load" is often doable so long as the equipment is watched carefully, hot bits are cooled and there is an opportunity to repair afterwards. Trials ratings for WW1 Battlecruisers show lots of suh examples.
It's also worth making the point that turbines will run continuously at high loads in a way that the pre-dreadnoughts' reciprocating engines never could; so the operational difference on a long run was much greater than the 3 knots speed difference which a recip could only hit on a "sprint" basis.
Years ago I asked a Drydock question about this. Delighted to get an exapnded treatment.
This is a peek Drachinifel video and I am all for it.
Or even a peak Drach video
Incidentally, New Jersey in 1968 clocked 35 knots; her designed speed is 33
New Jersey had just been reactivated prior to this run. She had a clean hull and was at the lightest she'd ever be.
@@lonnyyoung4285 So what you're saying is a Clean, lightly loaded Rodney would have done 33 🤩
@@dragonbutt No. He didn't mention Rodney at all.
That was one of your best Drach!
Sounds like Scouse deserved a bravery award for climbing inside a live steam engine.
George VI should have kissed him on the lips for that effort
Definitely one of my favorites Haven’t been able to find your channel for over six to eight months. I wish I could subscribe
Hey, you never run a car harder then when you know you're gonna pull the engine anyway. The first thing that came to mind was my favorite image from one of the alternate history vids of the USS Texas blasting columns of fire and boiler components out of her stacks because she wasn't about to miss a good fight. I so totally could see that.
This rule does not apply to hire cars, company cars or "borrowed without the owner's consent" cars......
Priceless. Thanks much for the great documentary... and the laffs... oh Lord... one after the other... those regarding exceeding a boilers' tolerances and its potential effects gave me stomach cramps from the laffing. Much welcomed indeed. Have an awesome weekend Drach.
Many years ago I read a detailed account of Rodney chase in that account I remember it stating it exceeded 23 knots and at one point communication between it and KG5 was "Afraid your 18 knots is faster than mine" - since power goes up exponentially I would have thought 25 knots to be an absolute max with favourable winds for the Rodney Queen Anne bridge structure was almost a sail
If it was Kennedy's book 'Pursuit...' my memory says D-H "I'm afraid your 22 knots is faster than mine"
@@brucewilliams1892 I can't remember the book it was really thick with a navy blue cover with many pages - I loned it someone and never got it back