There is actually a shortcut to getting that expensive sound. Using NS10s really is a shortcut. I have difficulty imagining there to be speakers that are an upgrade on their midrange translation
I would unalive myself if I had to work on NS10s every day 😂 They can definitely help a mix translate but goddamn are they annoying to actually produce and mix on. lolol The ATCs definitely still have a much better midrange and translate insane. They translate well because the midrange is so detailed, unlike the NS10s that translate well because they're SO mid heavy that you have to scoop the piss out of everything for it to sound halfway decent on them.
@@MakePopMusic well I kind-of disagree. I have "entry level" 3-way monitors and NS10s in my studio. Their translation is miles better than my mains, but I just can't imagine that 2-3x more expensive ATCs would beat the the NS10s for translation as they are already soooo much better than my mains. I obvious get why you'd want a quality full-range system instead, but I just wanted to hop in and let people know that this type of mix quality can be achieved for a fraction of the price. Also, my NS-10s aren't simply mid-heavy, but rather really accurate due to their paper cones. Because they only reproduce the midrange, I have to disagree with them simply being mid heavy, thus leading to good translation. Rather, they are really accurate in that range instead. They might not be flat in there, but their profile just so happened to have withstood the test of time.
i don't think the difference comes generally from the speakers, i think its 3 things 1. you've had more time to audition the mix 2. remixing it gives you a new perspective 3. The listening change of the speaker (the speaker is the least effect on the result)
@@MakePopMusicI use to have Focals in my car, after 30 mins, I couldn't stand them anymore and my ears was quite fatigued. They were too bright and even harsh. I now am making my own speaker brand. ATC did sound pretty good the short time I heard them.
Sounds great. Aside from the obvious top and openness, there is just so much more good transient energy on the ATC mix. Also sounds inline with other mixers mixes done on ATCs. You can really tell in the chorus when it sonically still has somewhere to go, where the Focal mix stays pretty flat section to section.
Yeah the transient detail is wild. It feels like the song actually breathes now. I realized how much harder it is to dial in compression on monitors that have less-than-perfect midrange separation and transient response.
@@MakePopMusic Totally. I was using Focal Twin 6s for years and had the same issue. Couldn't swing the SCM25s I wanted, but KH310s I ended up getting gave me a similar kind of realization.
Because there's more transient energy, seems like more room for the vocal and the bass too as well, or snare if he wanted more into it. He has room to bring the bass another db up possibly
So, I have Focal Shape 65s matched with a Genelec sub, but for years I worked with a big old pair of Genelec 1032As matched with the same sub. I could never afford your ATCs but that's not the point. When I first got my Focals, a perfect size for my room, I spent weeks playing my favourite reference tracks, hearing details I'd never heard before, and loving them - From there, I embarked on hearing and achieving the same details in my mixes, and if I can do that, it's job done.... whatever the speakers (and I have three other cheaper pairs to check, one set up in mono.... plus the most BEAUTIFUL pair of Hifiman Arya headphones that cost more than the Focals, gulp). How does your ATC mix sound when you play it back on your Focals?
Its amazing that I can even hear the difference on my lousy laptop speakers. It really shows the sound translates to other environments, the listener doesn't need expensive monitors to appreciate it.
Miranda was saying even when she edited the video on her mac speakers she could tell a MASSIVE difference. I can hear a difference on my phone, the car, my home stereo. The thing is that the new mix translates REALLY well on EVERYTHING. Where the old mix sounded fine on most stuff, and pretty good on a few environments.
and THAT'S why midrange is the most important. Because midrange is the only thing that will be represented heavily on every single listening system no matter what it is.
Obviously there will be a difference when redoing a mix, regardless of speakers lol. But yeah especially the low end in the chorus sounds much better in the new version
What about the other 99.999999999% percent of the world who don't listen on ATC's? On my A8H's in a really well treated room the difference is NOT $9600! In fact if you volume match them it's negligible at best. A classic case of the Emperors new clothes methinks. 🤔
Midrange dominance is the natural production range of our world based on the physics we've built it around, so it will always be where most of the remedies will be needed. *When I see how much work more experienced studio gurus put into mastering, I'm encouraged but also somewhat happier I'm more focused on composing rather than this brutal labor lol.* It's a lot of work and I've avoided honing my skill in it.
@@MakePopMusic something I have heard repeatedly over the last 30 years is after you master something, the car stereo and common headphones are one of the best ways to test it because it's how majority of people listen to music.
way better seperation, the focal mix sounds a bit warmer but i really like the seperation and openess in the atc mix. Its clear that you can hear more on the atc
Maybe a small difference but nothing insane. I worked on the ATCs for 5-6 days before the cloud went up and was already telling a MASSIVE difference. Definitely an upgrade, but the cloud wasn't the issue with the Focals for me.
ATC’s seem to be working for you, that’s good. I know that 4KE plugin quite well; for guitars i find myself rolling off top end via LPF to 11k or so. Keeps some of the extra shimmer under control. Congrats on new speakers
I don't have ATC or Focal monitors, I have way cheaper stuff if anyone cares, the thing is that my room is priority so you can consider it a well treated space. Even my cheapies clearly showed me that the Focal mixes were lacking body/notation and also energy in the highs, ATC mix sounds more like a record, it sure improved your listening situation in the room you have. Congrats!
Lots of confirmation bias in this, given how you only let the Focal mix run for 2-3 seconds xD Now, if you get the upgraded and extended Focal Shape Twins, you have an adjustable eq setting in the back, to get the midrange more forward, depending on the treatment of your studio. ATC of course is going to be better, but Focals are still phenomenal.
since you give us stems at times for some of your songs can you also start doing sessions to show us how you mix/mastered it? i think it'd be really cool to show us how you achieved the sound. i mixed my own version ofc but couldn't quite tell what you did and would love to see the thought process on how you got to your final decisions.
ATC mix is very clean, the level of detail is great. I think the people who prefer the Focal mix are just missing the glue that resulted from the interaction of the low mids that have been cleaned up. The vocals seem somewhat detached from the instruments but this might be sorted once you figure out those high mids and maybe add some wetness. The mix doesn't feel quite as swimmy because there's less frequency content going to the verbs now that you cleaned stuff up.
Yeah I noticed the same thing after listening the next day. I've done a revision that kind of blends the two. Has some of the glue of the Focals but still stays separated and open. The new version ripssss but I couldn't use it in the video because I wanted it to be my genuine first go at the new monitors.
ATC definitely clearer in the mids. Just goes to show. Congrats on the new monitors….another one for my bucket list! Til then I’ll stick with my NS10s and Adam A7x’s.
There is something about good mixes that I describe as really sweet sound, as i can ''bite'' the sound with my teeth. Weird to explain but I love this sensation. The mix quality is really improved a lot.
Cool vid. Congrats on the ATCs. I agree with the other post, that the ATC mix had a better groove. I still consider myself a noob as I only work on my projects and I do not have any high end equipment. I can say this.... With each project, I am getting better at mixing and mastering. The one thing that I found that helps is using a spectrum analyzer. It seems that u either rely on your equipment or your ears for the majority of your work. I found looking at the spectrum analzyer that it would show me visually where my track was not balanced. I am actually in the market for new monitors. I have to save up about 4 years, but I will get them soon enough. Right now, I am opting for the Neumann KH150s. I think they will be a great personality fit. I am chasing mid range. Much longer story. The 310 or 420s would just be too big for my space. I think the 150s will be a perfect upgrade from what I have although I might still keep what I have as reference monitors. In either case, cool vid and happy music making. 😁
the ATC Mix overall "Tone" sounds a bit better and is a little bit cleaner, but a bit harsher and bright but with a better balance of the low end, in the other hand the Focal Mix has a better Low Mid balance and is a bit smoother in the high-mids ... the interesting thing is that the ATC Mix "Tone" sound better but the Focal is more balance in the whole spectrum listening here with Dutch & Dutch 8c aand Amphions Two15..... I think to learn the relationship between the lows and low-mids in the ATCs takes time... but congrats, feels refreshing to have new speakers, nothing cool than that in audio
I hateeee the low mids in the Focal mix. I did a revision after I filmed this though and I popped some more mids back into the new mix and it filled the little gap that was there.
I agrree, the new mix translates much better. Well defined, more depth and clarity... I would even go still further in this direction... 😉 Listening on Adam S3H... well done. 😊
The ATC mixes sound so much cleaner, more open, and dynamic. The vocals are much clearer and defined, and the overall sound is just so much more polished and professional. totally worth the investment👍🔥
IMHO, the speakers had nothing to do with your new mix. That was simply time and contemplation of the first mix. I would bet you if you had gone back to do a new mix on the same speakers after sitting with it for all this time, that you would have made the same changes. Happens to me all the time, and I have mixed on $30k Kii's to cheap Yamaha's.
Nice video! I mix on Focal twins tuned by dolby in a 7.1.4 setup. That said your ATC mix was obviously better but I feel if i had the stems I could get the old mix to match. The age old question how did they get songs to sound amazing when they didn't have all these modern options we have now...Its pretty much 95% in the ears IMHO. My next speaker I will upgrade to after namm will be PMC6-2 or pmc 8-2 they are insane.
Was checking your Focal mix on my CHEAP Mackie MR5 MK2, instantly felt that mids of instrumental are muddy, so even in good room + CHEAP speakers you can recognise your muddy mids, hence you don't realy need 10k to hear that, but if you can, why not?)) Many amazing mixes were done by people on Yamaha HS 5-8 + sub, the quality that I wouldn't believe is possible!
Old mix sounds like a rough mix compared to the new ATC mix. However the proper way to test would be do the same mix on 2 different days (with a couple of days break in between) first ATCs then Focals
I love this video! I have no doubt that you're getting a bit more clarity out of the ATCs but I am curious what you think the breakdown of the difference is the upgraded monitors versus sort of finalizing the mix, which you would have likely done anyways? I know those last little tweaks usually make all the difference for me (mixing on Shape Twins FWIW). Thanks for the channel!
I think I said it in the video but I'll reiterate. I can definitely still get a great mix on Shapes, I can just do it much easier, quicker, and more confidently on the new speakers. I can crank a mix out in a couple hours rather than a few days of back and forth.
@@MakePopMusic Ahhh I've been thinking of getting a alternative sub for mine in the mean time. Eventually do plan to get that scm70. I think the fact that the port is on the side instead of being front ported and the cabinet being small, leaves a little to be desired in low end. I feel like I have to crank them to get the bass out cause of that -6 db after 47hz. You're putting great use to them! I bet the dynaudio makes a nice 2.1 systems when used though.
@@MakePopMusic Definitely check their native versions that don't require DSP/hardware. They're every bit as good, and Pultec EQP-1 is one of the ones they made native.
I prefer the new mix for sure! The vocal is much better throughout especially in the chorus. The only thing still bothering me is the guitar. It sounds like it's too present in the mix. Maybe simply turning it down might be the trick to my ears, but the higher midrange/lower high range is what's getting in the way the most to me. The guitar isn't very intricate so I think it should be more a feel than in your face, just my opinion. I'm listening on Hedd Type 20's Mark II's.
After adjusting for the volume difference and allowing for the UA-cam factor the ATC mix sounds a bit too crisp especially on the hi hats, the Focal mix sounds better balanced although the synths could do with a touch more top as you did in the ATC mix. $9,600 difference? 😎
Insane difference! At the same turning point right now, but don’t have 10k. What good speakers would you recommend at a 5k price point? Love your content, keep on going strong! 🔥💪🏻
My main speakers Adam A7x, plus cans Sennheiser HD650, plus cans AT M50x, plus my secret weapon - plugin Realphones by dSONIQ (for imitations of laptops, cars, TVsets etc.) What can i say - new version is too bright. Old is very good, but needs some details. I think, if you will use both speakers in your workflow, then you will have no equal in mixing.
Bro! I wonder if you would do a special video, where you take people with old cheap monitors like mine (first generation Rokit G5's), and play them back in your 10k monitors and then say how bad/good it is??
Thanks for the comparison! I am considering buying either the scm25as or the Dutch and Dutch 8c’s. Thats what I have narrowed it down to. I like the idea of the updated tweeter!
@@siniswhatitis I would get ATC but you may want to also consider Genelec 8341 if you don't want to invest in a Trinnov. I think the midrange of ATC is a bit sweeter but the low end on the 8341 and coaxial design makes for a best overall experience for the money. You will not need subs and can calibrate (the kit is 230 bucks or so). I don't recommend Sonarworks at all. I currently own all 3 of these speakers (actually atc scm45) and use the Genelec as mains in a similar sized room to yours. You may want to hear them first though. I wouldn't say they sound "better" than the ATC, but they are definitely more accurate in the smallest room and mixes translate better. I learned the hard way.
@@ezrashanti thanks for the insight. I put current photo of my studio as is today. I do have a Trinnov st2. It sounds really good with the mm45s but I’m ready to climb a bit higher. In the past I have considered the genelec ones but a number of reviews talk about how shrill the high end can sound and that many preferred atc over them. I definitely like the idea of the GLM software for calibration. Can you speak to the 8c’s calibration?
@@siniswhatitis I can't see any photo, I don't really know how to actually communicate useful information on UA-cam since it's just a thread. But if you have an ST2, keep it! We actually compared glm vs st2 vs both and ended up just using st2 (multiple mix positions). I do think ATC sounds better in a way. Our room is pretty packed with furniture and gear and similar dimensions to yours but has to be sideways which is not ideal, so the more compact genelecs sitting on the meter bridge and coaxial design allowed us to scoot forward 18" vs the scm45a and get us out of the low end null, also phase coherence is very flexible with coaxial speakers, not as sensitive to moving your head around. With the SCM25 mkii (same tweeter as 45), it's a much more compact speaker than 45. 45 was the smallest that would get you the better tweeter and mid-range ATC at our time of purchase. Dutch 8C are awesome as well but I think too big. They go much louder than either of the others without clipping as well. They had not fully integrated rew correction when I was using this so I can't speak to the correction with that but at the time it was pretty rudimentary. In my opinion unless you want to get really good at measuring and trial and error, no calibration will come close to the Trinnov and the newer units don't do anything the st2 doesn't so I'd plan on using that for sure and you can consider yourself lucky you don't really have to think about the room correction aspect when purchasing speakers. Even so, genelec was the best design for our setup. So if you have a Trinnov and you are able to face the long way in your room and scoot forward as far as possible, the ATC might be great! If you want to hear extreme lows you WILL need subs (2 ideally), but the st2 can handle that and if you already have some you can just use those. It would be a tough call for me in your situation, you need to go listen to them. Where are you located?
wow you basically fixed most of the things i didnt like about your mixes in the past it's a little much in the highs but that might be a me thing. for sure has a lot more energy and clarity
Nothing beats the ATCs. Having good speakers will get you a significant amount closer to great mixes. I love mine and will never trust a mix I do on any other speakers !
No. I did sonarworks measurements but it wasn’t necessary at all. May do a trinnov eventually. And yeah. I have the sub BARELY on. Just adds some super lows to fill out the speakers a little
Thank you for the content you make! Did you add a subwoofer to the ATCs? I am currently in a big dilemma between ATC or Duch & Duch. The only thing that bothers me about the ATC is the lack of low end.
@@MakePopMusicim a cubase user since the 90s beginning also when it was just midi,im 48 but still using cubase also,some work of mine 😃 ua-cam.com/video/Mrd1SGd_Qu4/v-deo.htmlsi=XxO_DrUMX-Sy8uAk
I felt like the old mix was more glued together and the ATC mix every element is more defined but looses the glue that the Focal mix had that I really liked. The glue made it sound more professional imo.
Honestly the ATC mix was better but I'd go for something in between, the focal mix is more vibey especially in the verses thanks to the lo-mids filling it up quite well. ATC mix has much better clarity and punch thanks to a much cleaner mix overall, but certain elements feel a lil overly wide and sticks out form the mix a lil too much for my tastes.
Yeah, the final mix ended up having more of the low mids and split the difference of both! Only took a 30 minute revision session and it wsa good to go!
Yeah, so I would guess that you’re going to have a lot less upper mid range and middle mid range precision on the focal mix. It might potentially sound thinner as well, depending on how well you adapt to speakers.
I think it is too early to make comparision, I found that my ears are tuned after 3-4 weeks to new monitors. Then my mixes was almost identical to previous one, because my ears learn how to listen that nev type of sound and translate it into my mix taste. Of course that is my point of view but it would be interesting if you record 3rd episode - mix after 6 month with ATC without listening previous one and then check if it realy depend of monitors or maybe your listening habbits. After all...thx for interesting episode. All best !
to me ATC mix has more top end, sometimes that sound way better and all the things clear in that mix, but i the focal mix is better overall i mean yes sometimes somethings needs definition and clarity, but listening the song i feel something with focal , when you get used to ATC the mixes will be night and day xd...
That's fair! To me the Focal mix is distracting. it feels like it's a bit suffocated but it definitely makes the song have a much more ambient and soft vibe and if you like that, then you like it!
Does that mean that affordable monitors are a farce? If we don't have the budget for legit monitors, should we just look for regular speakers that have monitor-like qualities?
ATC's Hands Down, have the edge. I am using Adam T7V Speakers. They are OK. Looking for another pair that's a lot better quality. Thx for the review...ElectricEddie 😎
The focal mix is far more engaging. I feel much more connected to the song. The ATC mix is “great” if you want to geek over frequencies - it felt sterile and impersonal.
first person that says they like the Focal mix is getting BANNED 😂
There is actually a shortcut to getting that expensive sound.
Using NS10s really is a shortcut.
I have difficulty imagining there to be speakers that are an upgrade on their midrange translation
I would unalive myself if I had to work on NS10s every day 😂
They can definitely help a mix translate but goddamn are they annoying to actually produce and mix on. lolol
The ATCs definitely still have a much better midrange and translate insane. They translate well because the midrange is so detailed, unlike the NS10s that translate well because they're SO mid heavy that you have to scoop the piss out of everything for it to sound halfway decent on them.
@@MakePopMusic well I kind-of disagree.
I have "entry level" 3-way monitors and NS10s in my studio. Their translation is miles better than my mains, but I just can't imagine that 2-3x more expensive ATCs would beat the the NS10s for translation as they are already soooo much better than my mains.
I obvious get why you'd want a quality full-range system instead, but I just wanted to hop in and let people know that this type of mix quality can be achieved for a fraction of the price.
Also, my NS-10s aren't simply mid-heavy, but rather really accurate due to their paper cones. Because they only reproduce the midrange, I have to disagree with them simply being mid heavy, thus leading to good translation. Rather, they are really accurate in that range instead. They might not be flat in there, but their profile just so happened to have withstood the test of time.
🤣🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
i don't think the difference comes generally from the speakers, i think its 3 things
1. you've had more time to audition the mix
2. remixing it gives you a new perspective
3. The listening change of the speaker (the speaker is the least effect on the result)
The ATC mix is sooo much more groovy and alive, it's incredible
I agree! I feel like I can enjoy the music and not even really hear a "mix". It just feels like a song to me which is my goal when mixing.
@@MakePopMusicI use to have Focals in my car, after 30 mins, I couldn't stand them anymore and my ears was quite fatigued. They were too bright and even harsh. I now am making my own speaker brand. ATC did sound pretty good the short time I heard them.
Yep I agree, the newer mix sounds glued together. The older one has things sounding disconnected and competing with each other. Quite a difference!
You definitely cleaned up a lot of that congestion. Amazing what hearing the truth does for a mix :D
Absolutely. You should hear the version I revisited the next day and revised. haha
Sounds great. Aside from the obvious top and openness, there is just so much more good transient energy on the ATC mix. Also sounds inline with other mixers mixes done on ATCs. You can really tell in the chorus when it sonically still has somewhere to go, where the Focal mix stays pretty flat section to section.
Yeah the transient detail is wild. It feels like the song actually breathes now. I realized how much harder it is to dial in compression on monitors that have less-than-perfect midrange separation and transient response.
@@MakePopMusic Totally. I was using Focal Twin 6s for years and had the same issue. Couldn't swing the SCM25s I wanted, but KH310s I ended up getting gave me a similar kind of realization.
Because there's more transient energy, seems like more room for the vocal and the bass too as well, or snare if he wanted more into it. He has room to bring the bass another db up possibly
The clarity of the synths in the new mix is night and day. It really seemed ambient in the old mix.
So, I have Focal Shape 65s matched with a Genelec sub, but for years I worked with a big old pair of Genelec 1032As matched with the same sub. I could never afford your ATCs but that's not the point. When I first got my Focals, a perfect size for my room, I spent weeks playing my favourite reference tracks, hearing details I'd never heard before, and loving them - From there, I embarked on hearing and achieving the same details in my mixes, and if I can do that, it's job done.... whatever the speakers (and I have three other cheaper pairs to check, one set up in mono.... plus the most BEAUTIFUL pair of Hifiman Arya headphones that cost more than the Focals, gulp). How does your ATC mix sound when you play it back on your Focals?
It's surprising how these little moves make so much difference!
Your videos are great.
I think the clouds played a bigger part of the final mix😂
Its amazing that I can even hear the difference on my lousy laptop speakers. It really shows the sound translates to other environments, the listener doesn't need expensive monitors to appreciate it.
Miranda was saying even when she edited the video on her mac speakers she could tell a MASSIVE difference. I can hear a difference on my phone, the car, my home stereo. The thing is that the new mix translates REALLY well on EVERYTHING. Where the old mix sounded fine on most stuff, and pretty good on a few environments.
and THAT'S why midrange is the most important. Because midrange is the only thing that will be represented heavily on every single listening system no matter what it is.
Obviously there will be a difference when redoing a mix, regardless of speakers lol. But yeah especially the low end in the chorus sounds much better in the new version
the atc mix sounds like the mastered version of the focal mix. its really really impressive!
Listening on ATC SCM25's and the ATC mix has significantly more depth! Same on my very old PMC's TB2S. Great work!
What about the other 99.999999999% percent of the world who don't listen on ATC's? On my A8H's in a really well treated room the difference is NOT $9600! In fact if you volume match them it's negligible at best. A classic case of the Emperors new clothes methinks. 🤔
Midrange dominance is the natural production range of our world based on the physics we've built it around, so it will always be where most of the remedies will be needed. *When I see how much work more experienced studio gurus put into mastering, I'm encouraged but also somewhat happier I'm more focused on composing rather than this brutal labor lol.*
It's a lot of work and I've avoided honing my skill in it.
yeah, mixing and mastering isn't for everyone! Being able to understand midrange can definitely help inform a production and arrangement though!
@@MakePopMusic something I have heard repeatedly over the last 30 years is after you master something, the car stereo and common headphones are one of the best ways to test it because it's how majority of people listen to music.
way better seperation, the focal mix sounds a bit warmer but i really like the seperation and openess in the atc mix. Its clear that you can hear more on the atc
I'm wondering how much difference did the cloud over you, aside of the monitors.
I think a lot it's there too.
What are your thoughts about?
Maybe a small difference but nothing insane. I worked on the ATCs for 5-6 days before the cloud went up and was already telling a MASSIVE difference.
Definitely an upgrade, but the cloud wasn't the issue with the Focals for me.
@@MakePopMusic Lovely! Thanks 😊
ATC’s seem to be working for you, that’s good. I know that 4KE plugin quite well; for guitars i find myself rolling off top end via LPF to 11k or so.
Keeps some of the extra shimmer under control. Congrats on new speakers
Listening to your vid on some original ATC 20As. Translates great, sort of like you stetched it top to bottom.. nice. Great song too
Thank you!!
I don't have ATC or Focal monitors, I have way cheaper stuff if anyone cares, the thing is that my room is priority so you can consider it a well treated space. Even my cheapies clearly showed me that the Focal mixes were lacking body/notation and also energy in the highs, ATC mix sounds more like a record, it sure improved your listening situation in the room you have. Congrats!
Lots of confirmation bias in this, given how you only let the Focal mix run for 2-3 seconds xD Now, if you get the upgraded and extended Focal Shape Twins, you have an adjustable eq setting in the back, to get the midrange more forward, depending on the treatment of your studio. ATC of course is going to be better, but Focals are still phenomenal.
they seem so alike in the beggining but then the imaging is way better/bigger in the ATC´S, the definition and the clarity pops up
since you give us stems at times for some of your songs can you also start doing sessions to show us how you mix/mastered it? i think it'd be really cool to show us how you achieved the sound. i mixed my own version ofc but couldn't quite tell what you did and would love to see the thought process on how you got to your final decisions.
ATC mix is very clean, the level of detail is great. I think the people who prefer the Focal mix are just missing the glue that resulted from the interaction of the low mids that have been cleaned up. The vocals seem somewhat detached from the instruments but this might be sorted once you figure out those high mids and maybe add some wetness. The mix doesn't feel quite as swimmy because there's less frequency content going to the verbs now that you cleaned stuff up.
Yeah I noticed the same thing after listening the next day. I've done a revision that kind of blends the two. Has some of the glue of the Focals but still stays separated and open.
The new version ripssss but I couldn't use it in the video because I wanted it to be my genuine first go at the new monitors.
@@MakePopMusic Respect! Can't complain, made for a great video
ATC definitely clearer in the mids. Just goes to show. Congrats on the new monitors….another one for my bucket list! Til then I’ll stick with my NS10s and Adam A7x’s.
Massive difference. Also, the Dandy Del Mar crochet polo is *chefs kiss*
There is something about good mixes that I describe as really sweet sound, as i can ''bite'' the sound with my teeth. Weird to explain but I love this sensation. The mix quality is really improved a lot.
Cool vid. Congrats on the ATCs.
I agree with the other post, that the ATC mix had a better groove.
I still consider myself a noob as I only work on my projects and I do not have any high end equipment.
I can say this....
With each project, I am getting better at mixing and mastering.
The one thing that I found that helps is using a spectrum analyzer.
It seems that u either rely on your equipment or your ears for the majority of your work.
I found looking at the spectrum analzyer that it would show me visually where my track was not balanced.
I am actually in the market for new monitors.
I have to save up about 4 years, but I will get them soon enough.
Right now, I am opting for the Neumann KH150s. I think they will be a great personality fit. I am chasing mid range. Much longer story. The 310 or 420s would just be too big for my space. I think the 150s will be a perfect upgrade from what I have although I might still keep what I have as reference monitors.
In either case, cool vid and happy music making.
😁
Huge difference. I had a similar experience going from KH310s + sub to KH420s with no sub.
The monitor game is a never ending rat race. Hahaha
Super cool video, Austin! ❤🔥🙏
Man it sounds so alive with the new speakers! (listening with the same focals haha)
Can you talk more about the wide bass layer you added? How does it differ from the mono sub track?
the ATC Mix overall "Tone" sounds a bit better and is a little bit cleaner, but a bit harsher and bright but with a better balance of the low end, in the other hand the Focal Mix has a better Low Mid balance and is a bit smoother in the high-mids ... the interesting thing is that the ATC Mix "Tone" sound better but the Focal is more balance in the whole spectrum listening here with Dutch & Dutch 8c aand Amphions Two15..... I think to learn the relationship between the lows and low-mids in the ATCs takes time... but congrats, feels refreshing to have new speakers, nothing cool than that in audio
I hateeee the low mids in the Focal mix. I did a revision after I filmed this though and I popped some more mids back into the new mix and it filled the little gap that was there.
@@MakePopMusic was not about the quality of the low mid in the focal, but were in a better place than in the ATC.... was very scooped
I agrree, the new mix translates much better. Well defined, more depth and clarity... I would even go still further in this direction... 😉
Listening on Adam S3H... well done. 😊
In Matt we trust 🙏 Austin this sounds sooo good!! Congrats on the new monitors, they must be a freaking blast to listen to music through
MATT IS THE MAN!!
They're honestly soooo fun to listen to
The ATC mixes sound so much cleaner, more open, and dynamic. The vocals are much clearer and defined, and the overall sound is just so much more polished and professional. totally worth the investment👍🔥
Honestly the mix you did with the Stanley is what stood out to me the most! 🤔
when stanleys are so popular they cost more than my monitors now
@@MakePopMusic haha no kidding! 😂
Dang this video made me want to buy those ATC's for my studio. I can't really justify buying them now, but I'll start saving up.
Thank you brother
IMHO, the speakers had nothing to do with your new mix. That was simply time and contemplation of the first mix. I would bet you if you had gone back to do a new mix on the same speakers after sitting with it for all this time, that you would have made the same changes. Happens to me all the time, and I have mixed on $30k Kii's to cheap Yamaha's.
Nice video! I mix on Focal twins tuned by dolby in a 7.1.4 setup. That said your ATC mix was obviously better but I feel if i had the stems I could get the old mix to match. The age old question how did they get songs to sound amazing when they didn't have all these modern options we have now...Its pretty much 95% in the ears IMHO. My next speaker I will upgrade to after namm will be PMC6-2 or pmc 8-2 they are insane.
ATC = Natural.
Was checking your Focal mix on my CHEAP Mackie MR5 MK2, instantly felt that mids of instrumental are muddy, so even in good room + CHEAP speakers you can recognise your muddy mids, hence you don't realy need 10k to hear that, but if you can, why not?)) Many amazing mixes were done by people on Yamaha HS 5-8 + sub, the quality that I wouldn't believe is possible!
Very cool! i like the new mix so far! hey can you show how the ATC's looks like in your studio? 🔥🔥
Check our Instagram! I posted a pic!
Beyond the monitors, do you also use a subwoofer ?
Yeah. I just have the Dynaudio 18s
That’s a dope mix brother and a great song.
Old mix sounds like a rough mix compared to the new ATC mix. However the proper way to test would be do the same mix on 2 different days (with a couple of days break in between) first ATCs then Focals
How is that any different than doing them a month apart? Haha
@@MakePopMusic old mix is only one month old? If yes then you're right haha
I love this video! I have no doubt that you're getting a bit more clarity out of the ATCs but I am curious what you think the breakdown of the difference is the upgraded monitors versus sort of finalizing the mix, which you would have likely done anyways? I know those last little tweaks usually make all the difference for me (mixing on Shape Twins FWIW). Thanks for the channel!
I think I said it in the video but I'll reiterate.
I can definitely still get a great mix on Shapes, I can just do it much easier, quicker, and more confidently on the new speakers. I can crank a mix out in a couple hours rather than a few days of back and forth.
@@MakePopMusic awesome thanks for the clarification
Did you happen to get the SCM 70 Subwoofer after all or are you still rocking your old sub for the time being?
I'm on the Dynaudio 18S because I have it barelyyyy on.
@@MakePopMusic Ahhh I've been thinking of getting a alternative sub for mine in the mean time. Eventually do plan to get that scm70. I think the fact that the port is on the side instead of being front ported and the cabinet being small, leaves a little to be desired in low end. I feel like I have to crank them to get the bass out cause of that -6 db after 47hz. You're putting great use to them! I bet the dynaudio makes a nice 2.1 systems when used though.
Try the UAD versions of EQ-1 and MEQ. I love Waves stuff, but these will blow your mind, I promise. So much more detail and magic. :)
I don't rock with UAD like that. The whole "lock plugins to a physical interface that's less than stellar" is a bummer to me.
I may be getting an AudioScape EQP soon! Gonna try some physical units 👀
@@MakePopMusicBut a good number of their plugins are now also native and they are definitely worth it.
@@MakePopMusicthe UAD Pultecs are available natively now but I understand if it's a principle thing
@@MakePopMusic Definitely check their native versions that don't require DSP/hardware. They're every bit as good, and Pultec EQP-1 is one of the ones they made native.
Hi I noticed you are using the dynaudio 18s with your ATC’s is it a good pairing or a suggested pairing? Trying to find a good sub for them
I prefer the new mix for sure! The vocal is much better throughout especially in the chorus. The only thing still bothering me is the guitar. It sounds like it's too present in the mix. Maybe simply turning it down might be the trick to my ears, but the higher midrange/lower high range is what's getting in the way the most to me. The guitar isn't very intricate so I think it should be more a feel than in your face, just my opinion. I'm listening on Hedd Type 20's Mark II's.
Why did you go with the SCM25A Pro Mk2 and not the SCM45A Pro if I may ask?
I don’t really have a big enough room for them. If my room was a little bigger I would’ve done the 45s
Agreed! Totally different. ATC mix is a lot.
where does the slate VSX stand? still use it?
Did you, or are you using any room tuning software like Sonarworks?
Nope!
You’re such a talented man.
After adjusting for the volume difference and allowing for the UA-cam factor the ATC mix sounds a bit too crisp especially on the hi hats, the Focal mix sounds better balanced although the synths could do with a touch more top as you did in the ATC mix. $9,600 difference? 😎
Insane difference! At the same turning point right now, but don’t have 10k. What good speakers would you recommend at a 5k price point? Love your content, keep on going strong! 🔥💪🏻
why you didn't show the vocal chain ? 😅
I still don't love the vocal mix. Once I dial it in even more I will!
@@MakePopMusic Thanks
My main speakers Adam A7x, plus cans Sennheiser HD650, plus cans AT M50x, plus my secret weapon - plugin Realphones by dSONIQ (for imitations of laptops, cars, TVsets etc.) What can i say - new version is too bright. Old is very good, but needs some details. I think, if you will use both speakers in your workflow, then you will have no equal in mixing.
Adam's are soooo scooped so I can imagine you prefer the old mix. The old mix is super muddy and translates poorly though to me.
Wow, low end has so much more control now!
The Focal Monitors Own!
Nothing fancy. OG JBL LSR-305's and the sub. Still punch wayyyy above their weight-class.
Absolutely
dang, the ATC mix sounds so much clearer in the midrange
insane right? I was shocked. I just did a mix on them yesterday in under 2 hours that may be one of my favorite mixes I've ever done.
Bro! I wonder if you would do a special video, where you take people with old cheap monitors like mine (first generation Rokit G5's), and play them back in your 10k monitors and then say how bad/good it is??
Congratz on the ATCs 😍
Thank you!
Atc mix sounds great. Now do one vs vsx if you have those please
Thanks for the comparison! I am considering buying either the scm25as or the Dutch and Dutch 8c’s. Thats what I have narrowed it down to. I like the idea of the updated tweeter!
I've had both, how big is your room?
@@ezrashanti Hello. My room is 16’ x 10’7”
@@siniswhatitis I would get ATC but you may want to also consider Genelec 8341 if you don't want to invest in a Trinnov. I think the midrange of ATC is a bit sweeter but the low end on the 8341 and coaxial design makes for a best overall experience for the money. You will not need subs and can calibrate (the kit is 230 bucks or so). I don't recommend Sonarworks at all. I currently own all 3 of these speakers (actually atc scm45) and use the Genelec as mains in a similar sized room to yours. You may want to hear them first though. I wouldn't say they sound "better" than the ATC, but they are definitely more accurate in the smallest room and mixes translate better. I learned the hard way.
@@ezrashanti thanks for the insight. I put current photo of my studio as is today. I do have a Trinnov st2. It sounds really good with the mm45s but I’m ready to climb a bit higher. In the past I have considered the genelec ones but a number of reviews talk about how shrill the high end can sound and that many preferred atc over them. I definitely like the idea of the GLM software for calibration. Can you speak to the 8c’s calibration?
@@siniswhatitis I can't see any photo, I don't really know how to actually communicate useful information on UA-cam since it's just a thread. But if you have an ST2, keep it! We actually compared glm vs st2 vs both and ended up just using st2 (multiple mix positions). I do think ATC sounds better in a way. Our room is pretty packed with furniture and gear and similar dimensions to yours but has to be sideways which is not ideal, so the more compact genelecs sitting on the meter bridge and coaxial design allowed us to scoot forward 18" vs the scm45a and get us out of the low end null, also phase coherence is very flexible with coaxial speakers, not as sensitive to moving your head around. With the SCM25 mkii (same tweeter as 45), it's a much more compact speaker than 45. 45 was the smallest that would get you the better tweeter and mid-range ATC at our time of purchase.
Dutch 8C are awesome as well but I think too big. They go much louder than either of the others without clipping as well. They had not fully integrated rew correction when I was using this so I can't speak to the correction with that but at the time it was pretty rudimentary.
In my opinion unless you want to get really good at measuring and trial and error, no calibration will come close to the Trinnov and the newer units don't do anything the st2 doesn't so I'd plan on using that for sure and you can consider yourself lucky you don't really have to think about the room correction aspect when purchasing speakers. Even so, genelec was the best design for our setup.
So if you have a Trinnov and you are able to face the long way in your room and scoot forward as far as possible, the ATC might be great! If you want to hear extreme lows you WILL need subs (2 ideally), but the st2 can handle that and if you already have some you can just use those. It would be a tough call for me in your situation, you need to go listen to them. Where are you located?
4k Quality is amazing man
Appreciate that!!
wow you basically fixed most of the things i didnt like about your mixes in the past it's a little much in the highs but that might be a me thing. for sure has a lot more energy and clarity
nah it's definitely too bright! I went back and did a quick revision later and it came out great!
Are you using any room correction software with the new monitors? SW/DIRAC, etc?
Nope! Just straight up ATC with my Dynaudio 18s at like -8db for sub.
oof yeah, ATC vocals cut trough the mix, the highs are HD now! curious about the kick drum level (or transient) tho, anyway amazing video!
I prefer the focal mix tho, the new one is just too separate for me
Hey. Are you at NAMM this week?
Good stuff fam🎉🎉🎉
how do you feel about active JBL 708p for a mid range monitor? also I am liking the looks of Cubase I am not too comfy in Logic
Nothing beats the ATCs. Having good speakers will get you a significant amount closer to great mixes. I love mine and will never trust a mix I do on any other speakers !
random question.... What plugin/ sound do you find yourself using most out of anything in Cubase?
Do you use any room correction system? And how well does that Dynaudio subwoofer integrate with the 25s? Regards and congratulations on the channel.
No. I did sonarworks measurements but it wasn’t necessary at all. May do a trinnov eventually.
And yeah. I have the sub BARELY on. Just adds some super lows to fill out the speakers a little
Do you use Trinnov with your ATCs? Or are you planning to? Thx
Not yet but I may add one! This is just all ATCs. No sonarworkd or anything either.
Thank you for the content you make!
Did you add a subwoofer to the ATCs?
I am currently in a big dilemma between ATC or Duch & Duch. The only thing that bothers me about the ATC is the lack of low end.
I'm using the same sub from my old system. A Dynaudio 18S!
The mid range is sooo good and the sub adds just what I need
there u go Nikola, ATC low end is flabby especially in the 25's I prefer D&D and PMCs// but all is just preference
I saw in the previous chapter that there where kii monitors also,they are very expensive,did you listen to them as well against the rest?
I did! They were really cool! Not exactly what I'm looking for but INCREDIBLE monitors!
@@MakePopMusic nice,i heard them also but never against your new monitors,good choice 😃
@@MakePopMusicim a cubase user since the 90s beginning also when it was just midi,im 48 but still using cubase also,some work of mine 😃 ua-cam.com/video/Mrd1SGd_Qu4/v-deo.htmlsi=XxO_DrUMX-Sy8uAk
I felt like the old mix was more glued together and the ATC mix every element is more defined but looses the glue that the Focal mix had that I really liked. The glue made it sound more professional imo.
I added some mids back after a quick revision once this video was recorded and it glued it all back a bit. The focal mix was muddy as hell though.
@@MakePopMusic Focals did sound better, the ATC sounded tinny and wide
The ATC's really helped bring out the fidelity😃
Honestly the ATC mix was better but I'd go for something in between, the focal mix is more vibey especially in the verses thanks to the lo-mids filling it up quite well.
ATC mix has much better clarity and punch thanks to a much cleaner mix overall, but certain elements feel a lil overly wide and sticks out form the mix a lil too much for my tastes.
Yeah, the final mix ended up having more of the low mids and split the difference of both! Only took a 30 minute revision session and it wsa good to go!
ATC monitors are in a league of their own!
Night and Day bro🔥🔥
The chorus is definetely better on the ATCs, but the verse sounded better to me on the Focals.
Hi Austin, I have kind of a random question: do you still master mostly to -4 to -5 LUFS or has your philosophy changed since then?
I just crank it til it rips
@@MakePopMusiclol thanks!
Yeah, so I would guess that you’re going to have a lot less upper mid range and middle mid range precision on the focal mix. It might potentially sound thinner as well, depending on how well you adapt to speakers.
Major upgrade!
I think it is too early to make comparision, I found that my ears are tuned after 3-4 weeks to new monitors. Then my mixes was almost identical to previous one, because my ears learn how to listen that nev type of sound and translate it into my mix taste. Of course that is my point of view but it would be interesting if you record 3rd episode - mix after 6 month with ATC without listening previous one and then check if it realy depend of monitors or maybe your listening habbits.
After all...thx for interesting episode.
All best !
Will definitely be documenting my experience with studio upgrades this year!
Beautiful! What the name of song?
to me ATC mix has more top end, sometimes that sound way better and all the things clear in that mix, but i the focal mix is better overall i mean yes sometimes somethings needs definition and clarity, but listening the song i feel something with focal , when you get used to ATC the mixes will be night and day xd...
That's fair! To me the Focal mix is distracting. it feels like it's a bit suffocated but it definitely makes the song have a much more ambient and soft vibe and if you like that, then you like it!
ATCs for the win. Definitely more open. You can hear the mask come off 👌
An axiom to live by: You can't mix what you can't hear.
The same goes to low end for people with cheap monitors or no sub
What monitors would u recommend up to around 3000$ per pair?
Atc scm 12 pro passive with buckeye hypex amp for budget, or if u can afford, ATC amp. Or focal solo 6 would be my recommendations
@@shoogabooga2072 but buying passive atc would require to buy an amp which can be very expensive
Does that mean that affordable monitors are a farce? If we don't have the budget for legit monitors, should we just look for regular speakers that have monitor-like qualities?
i use the krk rokit 8 wiith a sh*t eq, trying to emulate ns10
ATC's Hands Down, have the edge. I am using Adam T7V Speakers. They are OK. Looking for another pair that's a lot better quality. Thx for the review...ElectricEddie 😎
The focal mix is far more engaging. I feel much more connected to the song. The ATC mix is “great” if you want to geek over frequencies - it felt sterile and impersonal.
Agreed.
Atc mix is dope!!