Articulated, Double-Decker, or the Original? A Guide to Bus Selection
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
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We often talk about buses like they're a single thing, but there are actually a myriad of different types and builds of buses, each perfect for operating on different types of routes. Let's dive in & take a deeper look!
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Ticketing makes a massive difference to the quality of a bus service too. Here in the UK (outside London), you can have off-bus ticketing with an app/smartcard, but a lot of people still buy their ticket from the driver. At peak times this hugely increases the dwell time at stops. On my local route, I have counted up as much as 10 minutes of dwell time over a 20 minute journey!
Put a vending machine behind the driver seat for on vehicle purchases instead!
I agree. I once used an airport bus from a French airport to get into the city of the same name. The ticket selling process took so long that the bus left a good 10 mins late despite being at the stop in plenty of time for an on-time departure.
@@1121494 The trouble is, that doesn't help the kind of passenger who doesn't want to deal with machines and just wants to hand their money to a person.
@@jimhearsonwriter They've got to learn to fucking deal with it, honestly! It's really not that hard, and it makes transport more reliable for everyone.
@@jimhearsonwriter There should be a counter then outside of the bus, or it should only be off peak
Two related comments from my British perspective. Firstly, outside London, British double decks USUALLY have only one doorway. That leads to very long stop dwell times, up to two minutes!
Secondly, except in very large cities such as London or Hong Kong, most urban bus journeys are only about ten to fifteen minutes in duration. These short distance passengers often prefer to stand downstairs even though there are vacant seats upstairs. Worse still. in British cities where there is only one door on the bus, these standees tend to congregate at the FRONT of the bus, often at the foot of the staircase to the top deck. This hinders rapid boarding, and also makes it very difficult (and slow) when passengers want to get OFF the bus.
We used to have double doors in Edinburgh, then they went, and now we have them back. We also have distinct double deckers for the airport routes with more luggage space, and intended for a lot of people to go to the end of the line.
How the hell did anyone think a single door bus was a good idea
@@austriankangaroo
In the days of a once a day bus service one door was perfect.
I grew up with enter at the front, move to the back, exit at the rear door.
Now we have wheelchair/stroller ramps deployment and bike racks on the front to slow things down. But yes, we have more doors.
@@austriankangaroo It made more sense when buses had conductors. You just got on the bus, the bus took off and the conductor came around and issued tickets. I'm old enough to remember the complaints about 'one-man buses' when they were first introduced in the UK.
At least in industrialized countries, roads are flat and generally in good condition, which as it turns out, is a key requirement for DD buses to work properly.
Last year, a fleet of double deckers were shipped to Santiago, Chile. Turns out that because of the general state of the streets, which are mostly dirt roads and cobblestones paved over and over, which means uneven pathways and frequent potholes (to avoid saying craters). In just one month, a type of buses a lot of people wanted not only became extremely unpopular, but the axles and suspensions greatly deteriorated as if they had been used for years.
“…buses, those rubber-tyred workhorses of the transit world.”
Mmm yes, loving the love for the underrated bus!
Overrated
@@Secretlyanothername *sad bus driver noises*
Thank you for your bus driving service!
Articulated buses have an ace up their sleeve: you can ride the joint! It's usually the most comfortable spot on the bus aside from actual seats, and on top of that you get to watch the bus stretch and bend around you. When I was a kid, I'd ride the joint just for the fun of it. Now I'm in my 40s and I still do. ;-)
BTW, all buses in Warsaw have the door at the back, which means regular buses have three doors, and articulated buses have four. As a passenger I can't imagine it any other way.
Depends on the design of the joint! Sometimes I find it pretty uncomfortable, sometimes its amazing (such as the space inefficient but fun to sit in seat in joint design)!
in my city some buses actually have 4 seats in the joint!
good frequent and reliable bus service is the back bone of all transit agencies
More the veins or?
@@tilmanarchivar8945 I concur
5:47 A small local bus company in Sweden bought a used Neoplan Jumbocruiser many years ago. It was used as schoolbus! I met it every morning on my way to work on a small 2-lane country road. It was big and you could feel the draft from it 😅
I think those things are worth a lot of money today
Wow, I have never seen one in person but I assume it was . . . intimidating
5:00 True. In Bern, several routes running through the old city and the center - not exactly known for overly wide and "accomodating" streets - operate double-articulated trolley busses.
Those are rather large HESS lightTram 25DC models with a capacity of 220 passengers and 5 doors. They manage even in the late-medieval street layout of the old city. With their double-articulation, they are surprisingly agile.
São Paulo has bi-articulated and very large (21 m+) articulated buses going around in “self-built neighborhoods” (favelas) with narrow streets and sharp bends. It mostly works just fine, the issue is only in very sharp inclines.
Yeah, driving them is either easier than I think or those drivers are F1 level
Yes, something similar here in Zurich. A particularly funny thing is the location of the bus stop for trolleybus lines 31 & 33 at Central. The bus stop is located uphill directly behind a tight curve on the inside of the corner. The double-articulated buses therefore not only have to take a tight curve, they also have to turn into a bus stop bay directly afterwards.
London actually tried bendy buses. It didn't go well. Accidents went up, they couldn't turn tight bends and they blocked junctions. I do find it interesting though how Paris, Amsterdam and Berlin make them work just fine and they shun double decker buses. And yet all those cities make double decker trains work and we can't! I know the reason for that (historical due to bridge heights), but it still find it amusing (I know, I'm such a nerd. lol).
Articulated buses worked fine on sinuous routes in Leeds and historic streets in York (we don’t talk about the ftr, which had the bend in the wrong place - normal bandies have pretty much the same swept path as a rigid bus)
UK really needs to get a grip on having multiple doors. It seems out of the ordinary where we are one of the only countries to use one door buses (and double deckers)
Fare dogging is the problem I think, it's easier with three door buses
@@Peter-mj6lz yes its a problem, but I would accept spending a little more money on fare evasion for faster boarding and better service. Think, we have trains and trams with multiple doors. In that case, the driver may still check tickets and if it's a problem, its up to them to risk being fined by an RPO (revenue protection officer) since the driver cannot get out the cab and intervene/tell them to leave. That is done almost everywhere but not UK. RPOs are not really a thing for UK buses due to their single door nature, but at the cost of a slower boarding time.
@@Peter-mj6lz Could you just increase the fines to compensate for that? My city increased the fine from 60 to 100 Euros and can use the proof of payment system that just lets you hop into the tram/bus with no interference.
@@Peter-mj6lz My trainers tell every new driver "you are a bus driver, your job is to drive the bus safely, you are not a fare collector". When I service a stop, if I'm concerned someone'll jump on my back doors I simply open the back to alight my riders, then close my back doors and open the front to board new riders.
Even if I park my bus at a stop and wander off, nearly everyone pays. I'll stand back where I'm not obvious and pretty much everyone taps their card.
If someone needs a free ride, I'll simply give them a free ride. Supervision doesn't care if I give someone a free ride, and management tells us that we should "educate" nonpaying riders. I'm not willing to hassle a poor person over a matter of $3.
People are way more likely to jump on my back doors if I'm driving a free shuttle for an event. They want to skip the line for the bus. Those people I hassle.
@@Ruzzky_Bly4t I drive a bus in Ontario. There is practically no fare evasion. Even if I open my doors and walk away almost everyone pays. And the people who don't have money to pay will almost always ask just for a free ride (operator discretion, I almost always say yes. Everyone is welcome on my bus.).
I don't think there's even a fine for riders who don't pay. I have a button on my computer I can press to request a supervisor to come down and deal with "fare disputes" but I've never had to use it.
@4:37 I agree, the tiny, narrow single lane roads of the US could never fit an articulated bus!
Unthinkable!
For such a small city, we have over 4000 double decker buses in Hong Kong. Most routes can and will run double decker buses regardless of type of service, whilst single decker buses are typically deployed on routes with road limitations (height restrictions, tight bends, etc.). We have just gotten used to the double decker, though sometimes it is a pain on commuter routes where people refuse to use the upstairs as they’re getting off soon, thus causing a blockage.
That's part of why I usually prefer minibus over double deckers.
There are like 7mn people in HK. That is not a small city.
WTH is a big city for you? New Delhi? Tokyo?
@@c.n.i7105 It is the 48th largest city on Earth. There are about 10k cities on Earth.
@@DAndyLord i think they meant small as in geographically small, thus very dense
Newcastle, UK. We used to have loads of Leyland Nationals - some of you will recognise these as the original body-shells for the Class 141 & 142 Pacer to boot - and Leyland Atlanteans kicking about, but Stagecoach now, mostly have Alexander Dennis coachwork and chassis.
All of their fleet have single doors, curb-side, left.
Years back the PTE had Atlanteans & some Scania's with the additional door, but these were locked off then panelled over before all got scrapped (or sold to collectors).
Not entirely sure what Arriva and Go Ahead all have, but these days, even Arriva's buses up to Berwick-upon-Tweed, are service buses & not coaches with a under-seat-floor boot so it makes taking bikes and buggies up there a nightmare.
Newcastle to Hexham, on Stagecoach, again, a standard service bus.
Essentially, the NE's bus providers are going down the North American model & damn the passengers for many journeys taken. Although, I do have to say, our buses often have USB charger ports. Handy for the 22 from Silverlink to Throckley - which is easily over 60 mins.
Same for Go Ahead Northern, Newcastle to Bishop Auckland.
Seeing Manchester and much of Yorkshire going for bus franchising, I really hope Newcastle and the wider region opts for the same. I have only used the metro a couple times as I live in the south but was really impressed by the infrastructure of the bus interchanges at many metro stations. Would truly be fantastic to see much more integration in terms of ticketing and timetables as bus deregulation seems to have cut off the transport modes completely. The types of buses used for services would surely be held to higher standards and much more accessible under public control which I think this video alludes to. Two door buses need to be the standard for double deckers outside of London. Also can't speak for the others but I am convinced Arriva don't care about the service they run anywhere in the country. I live in a town 2 miles north of the London boundary and increasingly the service from Arriva turns up as a 16 seat minibus as apparently their normal buses keep breaking down. Naturally as its an urban area, the bus fills up after half a dozen stops as its only every 20 minutes (no services after 7PM) which is not enough for the area, if the bus even turns up at all, its very poor. And the council has the cheek to wonder why nearly everyone drives after cutting half the services years ago!
Brian Souter (owner of Stagecoach) used to also own Alexander Dennis. They sold it to NFI Group and took shares in that company in exchange for it.
That's why Stagecoach uses Alexander Dennis buses.
@@aaronsmith9209 We are to have a mayoral election on the 2nd of May which will unify Newcastle, Sunderland, County Durham, Northumberland and more under one mayor.
Two candidates have in their mayoral manifestos that they will introduce a franchising system similar to London and Manchester, with less hurdles thanks to Labour's Transport Secretary Louise Haigh's support.
I really do hope it happens too.
Hey! I think Canadian buses are often pretty good - at least most have bike racks!
Here in Brazil, a few capitals have articulated/bi-articulated buses. More specifically, in São Paulo, we have exclusive lanes everywhere and the fleet is almost entirely articulated/bi-articulated buses of up to 28 meters long. They carry almost 9 million passengers daily 😮😅
I drive an articulated bus. I was driving it as a free shuttle to an event. I had over 100 people on my bus. It took me 80 seconds to go from 0 to 60kmh. I was so glad nobody tested my ability to go from 60 to 0kmh. They are actually really fun to drive.
I'd love to see more become electric!
@@DAndyLord But hard I assume!
@@RMTransit THB in most respects they're only slightly more difficult than a regular 40'.
Another type of bus not mentioned here was one that I used a lot when I previously lived in Hong Kong -- the minibus. These typically seat 16 passengers and run fixed routes between a transit hub (ie, metro station with many bus stops, or a bus stop where many people take bus transfers) and a destination that is popular for a particular type of commuter, but not suitable for most transit riders. Examples of these could include destinations such as a university or a large residential complex that might be 10 mins ride from a transit hub, but it would not make sense for any of the other buses to make 10 min detours in each direction to pick up and drop off a limited number of passengers. The minibus ends up being a sort of shuttle bus shuttling passengers from the transit hub to the destination.
These are very handy and convenient, and do not delay the travel time for the other passengers.
Though in countries with higher labor costs it may not
make sense from a financial perspective
@@dootyminnozezelochi2257 Or it might actually make more sense in those cases.
US tends to use that size range of buses for paratransit service, door to door service for the disabled. Maybe also for route-deviation buses, a flexible service I learned about recently.
@@mindstalk I live in the US myself and am aware how the US uses that kind of bus. My point was that I strongly believe they can use it for other purposes as well, such as those I suggested, and help reduce travel time on the regular bus services while increasing accessibility (and hence ridership) overall. There is no reason why it must be limited to the services you mentioned.
The US does have some express shuttle services from park and ride lots to metro stations. However, these tend to be limited to rush hour and do not obviate the need for residents to own cars. Also, the park and ride lots tend not to be destinations in themselves apart from serving as a place to store your car.
There's also consideration regarding route profile. The most frequent bus route in my city actually uses regular solo buses. Originally it was because one of the termini required reversing into a side street. They've managed to squeeze in a loop, but some of the turns are still to tough. Also, introducing double-deckers into a city that already has trams can be tough if wires can't be set high enough.
For sure, just not being able to fit a certain vehicle type is a good way to ensure you won't use it!
An example from New Jersey is that I've noticed that despite NJT running a fleet of several hundred articulated buses, they never make an appearance at the George Washington Bridge Bus Station. To the best of my belief, this is because the sawtooth design of the boarding area uses up too much of the tight space for articulated buses to be able to load and unload without obstructing the road leading outside. Reversing out of the gates would also be quite a maneuver. Thus, most routes departing from the bus station use 40-foot long NABI buses that are about a decade old, though some less important routes use coach buses. And in that case, loading and unloading can be a really painful process. But despite these restrictions, the bus station still manages to handle thousands of travelers every day on a (mostly) punctual basis. Though I still think the rear doors could be used more when they are there.
Here the operator tried 15m three-axle busses for school bus lines, however those had problems with the tight corners in the small villages. By now they are all replaced by 18m articulated busses, which can do the same corners as a normal 12/13m bus.
This is a good summary Reece - thank you. In the UK we also have smaller single-deck buses used in suburbs and rural routes with narrow roads (yes - even in London too!).
I'm pretty sure he knows that lol
@@henreereeman8529 I don't know. I don't think 'rural routes' are a thing in the USA/Canada! :o)
I have to know…how did you find 3 articulated busses turning uninterrupted at a left turn? That’s gotta be even rarer than a total eclipse!
Good vid as always, keep up the good work!
Taking a double-Decker bus every morning I can tell you it's really a treat. I have an especially pretty route to work and even though it's only about ten-minutes I always sit up top for the view.
You missed two types of buses:
The 12m buses with 4 doors, 2 between the axles and 2 outside the axles.
The other type is the ones with a not-curbside door for use on BRT lite services where some stops are on a median and some not
There is no clear standard for doors on buses here in Brazil. In Rio de Janeiro, most buses have two doors, but some have the second door in the middle and others at the back, depending on the company. It's also common to find buses with three doors, the third of which is exclusively for wheelchair users. We have articulated buses, but only on the BRT corridors. Other cities can use articulated buses outside the BRT as well. In the past, it was common for some buses to have only one door in the metropolitan area of Rio de Janeiro, but today this is restricted to "executive" standard intercity buses.
Great, concise video that explains everything perfectly.
I think the 7-8 minute format is perfect for these types of videos
I agree with both your points.
5:49 It's the nuclear-powered bus from the 1976 hit comedy "The Big Bus"!
Oslo follows exact same model you suggested! To make onboard faster there is no ticket check and rather they do random check! So for regular commuters you just buy a monthly pass on phone and forget about it.
5:14 It isn't totally true that no canadian cities uses articulated buses. Quebec City actually uses this type of bus on their "metrobus" lines which are lines designed for high volume and include less stops. I appreciated the video, very informative!
A bus driver in my home of Zurich told me that it's actually easier to drive the double-articulated trolleybuses than their single-articulated variants. This is because the rear axle of the double-articulated ones isn't fixed in place, but also stears to the right and left to assist with turns. So "limited road width" isn't even a valid excuse when you're already using articulated buses.
PostAuto in Switzerland sometimes uses city buses (low floor, not exactly comfortable seats, three doors, layout optimised for more standing room) on rural lines or even express routes. They really aren't suitable and it's annoying.
In London you can't really use articulated buses. Not only can you probably not do the manoeuvring they can do with the double-deckers (e.g. they can turn their wheels so much that it feels like the back of the bus is barely moving and the front just moves sideways) but you have to get on at the first door. They tried articulated buses where people can get on anywhere but it just lead to people not paying.
There is another option you didn't mention: Buses with trailers. They offer almost as much space as a double-articulated bus, are probably cheaper and easier to maintain (these articulating things don't look cheap at least) and you can leave the trailer in the garage when you don't expect many passengers.
London abandoned bendy buses because of safety concerns. Pedestrians and cyclists were getting injured at corners.
Lie. Its just BoJo who wanted his New Routemasters which are alot worse in terms of reliability 🤣, The safety concern is just a scam he is selling.
@@Mgameing123 That seems more likely. Amsterdam is CRAMMED with cyclists, so much that it is seen as an "automobile hell" for anyone who isn't used to that level of amount of cyclists. But, in and around Amsterdam most buses are articulated (bendy), and never heard of an incident with bikes because of the bends
@@richardvanderlaak826 Different road design to London though.
@@Mgameing123 not a lie at all, manchester scrapped there bendy buses too, they are death traps and unreliable, the uk has been scrapping its bendy buses for the last decade, barely any exist in service
For some reason, I don't even believe that... But it's an interesting perspective.
Nice one ! There's also Low-Entry buses which are sometimes built on a citybus basis (the Citaro LE for example), sometimes on a coach basis (the Crossway LE, S416LE, MAN Lion's Intercity LE). They are usually 12m/40ft long so shorter than the 3-axle 15m coach-bus you talked about, have the front part of the bus up to the 2nd door being low-floor and the rest at the back being high-floor, usually 2-to-3 steps higher. They can have both citybus or coach seats (I've seen and used both), and are usually used for suburban routes that links hubs in cities to suburban villages and have frequent stops. They usually have 2 doors although a 3rd door option exists. And then there's suburban articulated buses, which have 3 doors and more seats than the usual articulated bus. They do the same type of service as the low-entry buses but for more crowded routes. And just like LE buses you have both citybus and coach-style seats available for them. A great example is the Citaro GÜ.
Boston resident here, the MBTA definitely operates articulated buses! We have them on the "Silver Line" (a totally real BRT system, definitely not just buses painted gray), and on high-capacity regular bus routes.
Thanks for the vid. I had never thought about this before! Here in Melbourne we have many types of tram (articulated, low floor, and old) but only one type of bus!
Nice essay Reece. Always good.
Dwell time
I do think double decker is a problem in Hong Kong as policy makers just put double decker in express route because there is more ridership than capacity, or add in double decker as additional buses during peak hours.
As a result, it's just slow in peak hours with people not willing to go upstairs yet blocking the stairways during peak hours, people are jam packed next to the driver for the 8 minute ride while there are free seats upstairs. Worse of all, dwell time is also higher as the bus driver shout at riders to get them go upstairs
Imo the best kind of bus is the one that actually shows up according to the timetabled time. I write this having been forced to walk home yesterday evening after waiting for a bus for 20 minutes that didn't show up. Even when I reached home it still didn't appear and the stop is right outside my house. Every time I've used a bus I've always had a lousy experience, would much rather take the train, cycle or drive just because I can expect to actually get to my destination in a reasonable amount of time.
Even though there is a stop outside my door, the buses (on weekends especially) are so bad that I often end up walking near a mile to the closest reliable stop. I feel you.
Brighton & Hove (UK) used articulated single deck buses on one of the "Metro" routes, between the city centre and Universities. It didn't go well, with notably excessive accident numbers involving pedestrians or bicycles. They lasted around five years here.
I don't think there's anything especially bad about either the buses, our pedestrians, or cyclists. The issues come down to appalling road design, with not even any real consistency in any aspect. What look to be straight, fairly commodious roads can, courtesy of minor road junctions, are too often notorious accident blackspots. And yes ... we have our share of "stroads" in the most inappropriate settings.
I do wish UK authorities would take a leaf out of the guidelines employed by Dutch highways officials. Application of well thought out practice, rather than the inconsistent approach within individual authorities - let alone adjacent authorities - would make life so much more pleasant all round .... and enable transit to perform closer to optimum performance.
The series of turns from the Brighton Academy stop towards Stony Mere Way is already difficult enough for regular-length buses. For the bendy buses it was an absolute goddamn nightmare, especially if there was oncoming traffic.
I would love it if you could provide some evidence of the “notably excessive accident numbers” though. Some road junctions along Lewes Road are indeed truly horrible like you say (and the left-turn lane that crosses over the bike “path” at the Coldean Lane junction is simply a middle finger to cyclists), but I don’t see how a bendy bus increases the risks of getting hit? Surely regular buses suffer from the same problems when it comes to cyclist and pedestrian safety?
@@KasabianFan44The contention is based on (a) local traffic and news reports and (b) personal observation and (c) reported justifications for road improvements (too often, more just another bright idea to add to the existing mess, the dangerous mini roundabout in Goldsone Villas being a case in point) but your question is a fair one and deserves a properly referenced reply, which I'm afraid I don't have to hand. The numbers HAVE to be there, somewhere.
Lewes Road, virtually anywhere south of The Avenue I'd agree can be awful (except Vogue Gyratory, which, like the entire route between there and Seven Dials/ Dyke Road is sodding awful). I can't imagine trying to get to Fiveways from either Lewes Rd or Bear Rd is a particularly safe exercise.
The penny pinching when the A27 bypass was built (lack of sensible junction with A270) adversely affects traffic levels within the city, with incompatible east-west traffic flows competing with north-south on rat-runs either side of the A270.
The western end of Portland Road is a constant accident waiting to happen, due in the main to parking issues causing reduced visibility at the many minor road intersections. The last serious proposal I'm aware of was the pointless idea to reduce speed to 20mph on this thoroughfare. When I challenged the logic of the scheme, which left New Church Road at 30mph, I received a ridiculous reply bleating on about 'schools on Portland Road', ignoring the fact that there are just as many on New Church Road, with just as little thought given to the effects of rat-running down side roads. Nor did that half-brained scheme address the actual problem of sighting on Portland Road.
And don't get me started on the level crossing in Boundary Road, which regularly causes tailbacks affecting both the A259 and A270 as well as putting the entirety of the Portslade shopping area into gridlock. Any alterations here would be massively intrusive and seriously costly, altering the entire character of the whole area.
I only experienced the Brighton bendy buses for a brief period, about 2.5 yrs before their withdrawal. From my first hand experience I didn't witness accidents caused by the buses, although I admit that different days/times will exhibit different results.
Personally I think the lack of turns along Lewes Road between Falmer and Elm Grove/The Level made them a decent enough fit for that route, although as you said in another comment they weren't great up by Sussex Uni. But the tight streets in most of Brighton does explain why they weren't appropriate for other routes.
There are quite a few bus routes in montreal that really need articulated busses but for some reason dont have them. Sometimes when waiting for the 51 after school i have to let 2 or 3 busses go by because there isnt enough room for everyone to fit. hoping the stm notices that they need to have more articulated busses sometime soon.
In cities with snow and ice, one of the problems with articulated buses is finding a model that won't jackknife in these conditions. These actually exist (like the now-gone Neoplan dual-mode buses that the MBTA had for the Silver Line Waterfront lines in Boston, that had rear AND middle wheels powered), but all of the articulated models they have obtained since then had only rear driving wheels(*), which will worsen any bend in the articulation when the road is very slippery -- this proved to be true even for some articulated buses that they got that were advertised as being tested in Winnipeg.
(*)The very latest articulated buses might be better, but they have been delivered after the last time we had severe winter weather, so that remains to be seen. No info yet on whether they have both rear and middle wheels powered like the now-extinct Neoplan dual-modes.
A good summary. Another element to consider is the street layout. London has a medieval street pattern which makes articulated buses unsuitable. Ticketing seems to be the issue. In Bristol, England we are slowly, ever so slowly, moving towards tap on tap cards off which should speed things up. A second door does help at stops, nicely illustrated with the Singapore bus at 2.38. However if not properly policed people will try to enter by the second door to avoid paying.
Having lived in cities with articulated buses are widely used main routes, it blows my mind that London does not have any. There are some high traffic bus routes where so much time is wasted by people getting on/off the bus, especially because TfL removed card readers in the midddle/rear door since COVID
It might sounds dumb, but what do you think about double deckers trams? They are in use in Hong-Kong and I've heard that Strasbourg (France) might be wanting to use modern double deckers trams. It could be a good system on express routes with on demand stops (kinda like on a tram-trains system).
the thing with trams is that there's much less downsides to lenghtening them compared to busses so the longer dwell times of double decker trams matter more
Here in Montreal we have city buses that are for the most part all the same, though slightly different based on when they were oredered, we have articulated buses for some express routes that allow boarding at all of their doors, not just the front, and Exo buses that are more regional and have more seating. I think for the most part the ARTM and STM have the right kind of bus in the right role. As for payment and speed of boarding, hopefully in the next year it will change to mobile device, smart watch or credit/debit card payment.
Oh-oh, you forgot the mini bus. That means you should get some punishment.
And that could be making another video about the financial viability of rural and/or small village public transit.
Or about informal public transit like they have on the Caribbean Islands and if it should be transformed to more formal transit.
Or school bus systems or continental long distance bus lines.
In Czech Republic we have a 12 meter normal bus but with a 4 doors! Its bigger articulated brother has 5 doors. It is from manufacturer SOR Libchavy (SOR NB 12 & SOR NB 18). This busses are very useful for crowded lines thru the city where a lot of people are getting on and off the bus on every stop.
In my local area, all the buses are standard single-deck. The fleet have a mix of single front-door only and a front & middle door configuration. Only a small number of EVs. About 60% of the operator’s fleet are 15 or more years old. At least we have 100% of scheduled service being wheelchair accessible.
In a town that’s about 20 minutes drive away from me, they fall just outside of the region where the city’s buses operate. Their local operator still does cash-only fares and customers purchase the paper ticket at the time of boarding. Even on their route that goes through my area.
In the NL buses are owned by the transport franchise provider that provides the services. Usually these buses are taken over when the franchise swaps and new ones are brought in. This also gives the multitude of different types that you can get.
We should make some triple decker double articulated buses in the us.
London tried articulated (or bendy) buses a while back, and while they were very nice to ride in, they were not at all popular with other road users, particularly pedestrians and cyclists.
They were later sent to Malta, where they were equally unpopular, and are now rotting in a Maltese scrapyard. I guess there aren't many drive-on-the-left countries were they would be wanted.
In the UK, the long-distance National Express and Citylink (in Scotland) routes are mostly single decker coaches, with some double decker on really busy routes like the Oxford Tube. For local routes, they tend to start with a mini-bus, make it bigger all the way up to double decker if demand requires it, then start increasing frequency.
What frequency do they start out with?
Opening: "It's pretty obvious that you wouldn't use intercity trains on a subway"
Sydney City Circle: all double decker trains
Russia: all Siemens Desiro
Buenos Aires City Government: uuuuuuummmmmmmm about that,
(For extra fun, these CAF trains we got from Madrid had fucking asbestos in them!!)
i think this is a good study for trains too! double decks for reigonal express, single decks with more doors for local stopping, and original smaller trains/buses for secondary and smaller routes!
While a double decker bus is great for city streets and highways, they're you're worst nightmare on rural roads, which are much better suited to coach style busses. And yet, Dublin bus runs the same model of bus through the winding hill roads of the far north of the county as it does throughout the city centre. There's poor ride quality, and then there's rolling over country backroads on a double decker bus as overhanging trees constantly smack the windows
An intersting thing is that articulated buses are able to handle tighter turns. I grew up in Beijing. The articulated 16m buses are able to operate on some of the narrow streets, while the 12m non-articulated buses are not.
What I most can't stand is using NovaBus Suburban models (looking at you, Vancouver) on highway routes, which are best to use coach buses. GoTransit double deck buses are my personal favourite for regional-scale routes.
I find it interesting that double-decker buses seem to be more common (as a percentage of bus fleets) in North American than in continental europe. Here, if a city has a double decker bus, that's a big deal and highly unusual, and basically only Berlin has significant numbers of them (and even those numbers have drastically declined over the past twenty years).
It seems to tie into market forces. In continental Europe, every double-decker bus is a specialty vehicle you need to buy from a specialty bus builder. You can get them, but the big brands (Daimler, MAN, Solaris, VDL, Iveco, Scania and so on) all don't offer LHD double-decker buses in their regular ranges. If your garage is already full of Mercedes and MAN spare parts, then buying an articulated bus from them is a no-brainer, but getting one from Alexander Dennis, who barely sell buses here and have less in the way of support networks, is not as straightforward.
Alexander Dennis appears to be much better set up in North America. Or all transit buses there are specialty vehicles anyway. Probably a combination of both.
MAN Lion's City DD looks at you
@@erkinalp Yeah, but isn't that the exception that proves the rule? A special series designed and built only for Berlin (yes a few went elsewhere, but I think overall that was like a dozen), together with Berlin. They built them until Berlin had a full set and then stopped. It's not a specialty maker, but it is a specialty product.
@@dda40x By common in North America do you mean Canada and Mexico? I've never seen them in public transit in the US, though private coach companies may use them. Agencies using federal money must buy American, and I've read the US doesn't have any manufacturers of double deckers. Articulated all the way.
In Istanbul, we are currently testing tri articulated busses with 4 segments, pretty useless for most but actually makes a lot of sense for the needs of the Metrobüs system!
Yeah that one needs to be transformed into a heavy rapid transit system
bit of a shame the jumbocruiser never went anywhere
but i guess if you need a bus that big its either a very niche route or you need to build a light rail
Interesting perspective. Here in Denmark though the largest transit agency, Movia, is standardizing to an absurd degree though. The new norm is 12m 2 double doors, and a pure yellow livery. 3 doors only for extra long buses or extra high demand/high priority routes.
Youll see the exact same bus types used for a local feeder bus, or a 35 mile long express route.
I learned to appreciate our EU Buses 🚌 thanks to you and the kinda interesting buses in Japan they are just completely different and obviously I can't sit there with 1,85m.
I had never considered the coach seating nature for the top floor of a double-decker, but I have been curious as to how much the larger cross-section of a double-decker affects its fuel consumption compared to "shorter" buses, especially at highway speeds where most routes in Vancouver have double-deckers.
I liked the part about diversity of fleet versus logistics. I feel it fits with the proposed gondola to SFU in Vancouver, which I feel might be too niche, specific, unique, or novel to integrate with a larger system (not to mention safety concerns).
Also, have you made a video looking at accessibly of transit for people with mobility challenges?
Honestly if you need a bi articulated bus then you need a tram. Double Deckers and articulated buses can have simular boarding times if you can only enter at the front door because double deckers with double stairways can actually reduce dwell times significantly!
Not necessarily for the first point you make, some cities can't afford trams so bi-articulated buses work great for them. For the next point though I totally agree. That's why I always preferred all-door boarding
No
It’s a shame that Sydney is moving away from articulated and focusing solely on double deckers. It seems short sighted, and when our buses are allocated to a certain route like a draw out of a hat EVERY day, it starts making even less sense.
When you combine this with the fact that 90% of Sydney's fleet is 70% low-floor buses instead of fully low-floor, it starts to look like we're very far behind. Sydney does a lot of transit right, but the buses still need work.
I've got a question. If the weakest point of double-decker articulated buses is the loading and unloading times, wouldn't that still make them suitable for express routes just from point A to point B? I'm asking because Lima Peru's BRT is collapsing and mere articulated buses can't keep up with demand. There's a point to point 10 kilometer route and a 21 km route, which are the most demanded at peak hours, would double decker articulates work there?
I would like to note that in Berlin, even though buses always have at least three doors, nearly everyone just uses the middle one 😅
Part of it is that there is really almost no space next to the driver at the front and everyone is always scared that the driver won't actually open the front and back doors at a stop. It's not always a given.
What I will say though is that no matter what issues we have here, nothing makes me appreciate having a variety of bus models in service than one a route normally run with double deckers is replaced with a regularly sized bus with only two doors. That is a special kind of transport hell.
Articulated busses are best just cause one of the common nicknames is "accordion bus", i wanna see more accordions on the road please 🪗
In île de France (Paris Region), they are adding double decker buses on some noctilien lines (night buses) and some express lines (with less stops). I hope this will be extended to other express lines and night buses.
Articulated and bi-articulated e-busses would be pretty cool in the US and England, but of course with all-door boarding (four or five doors). Greetings from Switzerland! :)
The MTA tried out double decker express buses for a route between midtown and Staten Island via New Jersey. They had to source out a bus short enough to fit into the Lincoln tunnel (and even then the bus had to drop it’s suspension like a low rider for extra clearance). The pilot program ran for a while a few years ago, but they never ordered more of these busses, I can’t find when it ended but it seemed to be a flop.
Fare collection is key. Too many services require boarding through the front door only to pay or have their card validated.
One-door boarding is a cardinal sin of bus operation, due to how much it slows down operation.
On-board fare collection is totally outdated and out of the question for any reasonable 21st century bus service.
In Warsaw even the regular, non-articulated bused have 3 doors. Only the smallest of the buses have 2 doors and articulated ones use 4 doors.
Can you make a video about the Francis Scott Key bridge collapse situation and how is it going to affect buses in the Baltimore Maryland area?
Double-decker articulated buses exist? How on earth does that possibly work?
There's a service that I use regularly from Sydney's North Shore to the City, which is fairly busy (especially during peak periods), and where the choice of bus type appears to be totally random. I'm writing this on Wednesday evening and so far this week we have had:
Monday - Double Deck 3 axle (2 doors)
Tuesday - Articulated single deck 3 axle (3 doors)
Wednesday - Standard single deck 2 axle (2 doors)
It's not uncommon for them to use a standard single deckj with just the one door either!
I am pretty disappointed that you didn't even mention trolleybuses
I have heard Edmonton might be restricted by what it can have by contract with New Flyer for most of the fleet except for a few Electric buses. Not to mention there is low clearance for a busy downtown Edmonton bridge. However an East Edmonton suburb does run double decker buses into Edmonton.
Double decker supremacy
So who else read Articulated-Double-Decker the first time they saw the title?
What a horrifying thought
I have now got to the cursed reality near the end of the video.
imagine if that actually existed
@@LouisChang-le7xoit does
I don't think any example of the neoplan jumbo cruiser still exist
Bus stop infrastructure is a key Ingredient. The infrastructure at Bus stop suitable for the vehicles used So, passenger amenities at the bus stop across the world is such a mixed bag of uncomfortable infrastructure.
I Live on what is now, a now Bendy bus route in Western Sydney But it still has single bus length bus stops If the bus doesn't fit the stop lay-bys then you have to Jump out of the Bus! Using a mixture of double decker's and bendy buses of this high frequency cross region route. It's a capacity issue. Seats that are fit for purpose.
Missing in the equation is Ticketing. Yes in one of your previous videos the subject of Ticketing is one of the keys. Tap and go allows for quicker dwell times at stops, Time ticketing and distance ticketing all have a result.
i think Kraków does this nicely it has a platera of different bus models, starting from very short like 6m buses all the way to 18m articulated, the city has some hills and i really tight corners so bi-articated could maybe work on 1 or 2 lines, but we have 13 long buses working the suburban routes that connect to the trams at the outskirts, tbh i think mist european cities are a good example of this🎉
This is something OC Transpo needs to pay more attention to. Quite often I find myself on a completely overcrowded articulated (or heaven forbid a 40-foot) bus that everyone floods off at one or two stops. Double decker buses would make far more sense, and yet I see them being used on routes with one or two riders.
The LA metro orangle line is planning on using bi-articulated busses soon, or as my brother and I like to call them, Trip-aritcs
OFF TOPIC: I noticed deferences in the amount of advertising on the business. Some busses in the United States are like rolling billboards inside and out. The busses in Switzerland didn’t seem to have any on the outside at all. These differences are not just associated with public transit. The United States seems to have advertising everywhere, even on the floors of grocery stores.
How big a funding source is advertising for public transit?
I remember my first trip on the Montreal metro, and realizing there was no advertising inside the trains. Very exotic compared to the US cities I'd been in.
@@mindstalk All the adverts in the United States are like thousands of little coercions. No one can be on guard to them all day, every day. They seep into people’s unconscious in an emotional way. Frankly, their cumulative effects should be considered an abuse. Places without them are more relaxing, in addition to other factors.
I wouldn't call the 3-axle buses here in Finland low-floor coaches. True, the seating arrangement is quite dense like on a coach with little room for standing. However, the seats themselves on the suburban routes are typically the same kind of barebones seats you'd find on a city bus. Sometimes the seats might be softer, especially on the more rural routes, but I'd say even then the seats aren't as comfortable as on a good coach. On top of that, you have the ride quality which just can't be as comfortable with the suspension of a low-entry bus as on a coach, and the engine which is a smaller city bus model rather than a larger, more powerful coach bus model, and the gearbox is typically a planetary drive automatic like on a city bus rather than an automated manual like on a coach.
Also, it should be noted that the 3-axle buses are always low-entry models, so the floor is only low between the first two sets of doors. Behind the middle door there will be a couple steps, and the floor rises towards the rear, as otherwise you'd lose too many seats to the rear wheel wells, making the third axle pointless.
i wish they would add a tap to pay on our rear doors over here. that would speed things up sooo much
In North America it probably doesn’t matter since we board from the front anyways. Here in dc some busses have a second fare box but they are deactivated and boarding is from the front.
Here in inner Greater Paris.Bendies with 4 doors and ordinary biomethane with 3.Bendy grossly overloaded as many ordinary lines.
You should do an explainer on Melbourne's tram network
And you forget to mention micro-minibuses, used in narrow roads.
For instance in Spain exists the Line 16 in Santander, used to communicate a high dense part of the city but with a quite high slopes or the M1-M2 in Madrid in the narrow city center.
What do you think about the new DD electric Trailerbus with 1,000 km range.
5:48 don't have to tell me of the risks of double-decker articulated buses: I've seen the documentary 'The Big Bus' before
Unfortunately in the UK it is increasingly common for unsuitable single door buses to be used on popular routes (to deter fare evasion) and for service levels to be reduced to the bare minimum (most buses round here don't run past 6pm or on Sundays). If it wasn't for the Government's £2 scheme, I reckon the UK bus industry (outside London) would be nearly dead.
I would agree with the general drift of what you are saying. But in the few British cities where the bus service is good, the £2 single fare has not had much impact as most passengers already have season tickets or passes. In Nottingham, where i live, the manager of Nottingham City Transport openly says that the £2 fare has had little impact. I think he would say something very different if he managed buses in a rural area such as Lincolnshire or North Yorkshire.
Nottingham seems to be an exception as it's by far the largest city covered by the scheme with a municipal bus system. I've found it's been more successful near me (In Luton) where bus services are privatised, badly regulated and have been subject to substantial cuts in recent years.
@@thameslinkrail4038 I would agree that Luton is very different from Nottingham. I was born and brought up in Hitchin, and I notice that Stagecoach have just extended the Bedford to Hitchin routes to Stevenage. I suspect that they are hoping for a lot of new £2 passengers travelling to the shops in Stevenage, or to the large hospital on the Hitchin side of Stevenage.
Man I wish OC Transpo placed an order for the 3-door twin-staircase Alexander Dennis Enviro500 MMC ran by SG Bus but with LHD market characteristics.
What about double decker AND articulated buses?
Do NOT bring berlin up as a boog example of this. It is not. There is a route I travel every day, the 222. A few years ago, it had double decker buses. The line was increadibly chill and there was always seats left to take. Now, double deckers arent anymore in service on the line, and quite often I just cant get into the bus. Because its basically at max capacity.
What do you think about the new DD electric Trailerbus with range of 1,000 km
I would have loved to know what you think about small buses! You know, the ones that only have capacity for 10 to 20 people.
At 6:25, that's not Toronto, it's Mississauga. 😁
I would also perfer reduced noise level on bus.
A quiet engine, no bus TV constantly playing ads(yes that exsits in our city bus fleet)
For the double decker articulated Neoplan true it did not go well back then (few units saw the day of light in the 1975-1992 timeframe) and I will dare to say that maybe, just maybe it's worth to revisit the idea (just like what Polish Autosan is doing right now with ultra weird looking electric buss that have battery/engine unit past as articulated attachment. If you see the picture of it you'll know what I mean. Weird but it might actually work out.) Also you forgot busses with passenger trailers. Yes such things are a thing. And yes they are falling out of favor (say they were present in Poland until 1997, and still can be seen in Germany and Switzerland but are also disappearing.) Such combos might be useful on routes that see the spikes of ridership during peak hours but otherwise do not have passenger numbers that would call for articulated/bendy bus or double decker one
Very informative and stuff I (perhaps stupidly) never would have considered before. However would be interested to hear why it is that double decker buses are only found in limited places. Surely it can’t be that most cities across the world are littered with really low bridges?
You shouldnt use an intercity train for your subway, but sydney proves, you can, if you're dumb enough.
Does Sydney currently use intercity trains for its subway? The system seems very reminiscent of the Zurich S-Bahn to me
@@illiiilli24601 it has double deckers running at a 3 minute headway.
Or you can use the Siemens Desiro for both intercity and subway operation, and everything in-between.
Articulated Double Decker Bus-Trolly Rapid Transit. No I will not elaborate.