Thanks for your RV-12 videos and for sharing your ideas on the MOSAIC topic. I am a Sport Pilot and am deep into building my own RV-12iS. I am fortunate that I am able to locally rent various LSA aircraft including RV-12iS. It's a big plus for me to regularly fly an RV-12 as I build one. I realize most Sport Pilots don't have many if any LSA renting options so I'm interested to see what the FAA comes up with to expand the LSA definition. Hopefully, there will be a big reveal at Oshkosh this year and no more delays getting this implemented.
Thank you, Jon. I will tell you, as I tell others, that I am in awe of anyone who undertakes to build a kit plane. In your case it sounds like you’re maybe well past the halfway point. I’m sure it’s a motivator to you that you can fly today what you’ll build tomorrow.
I agree with your views. The planes are the hindrance of the Sport Pilot Certificate. There just aren't very many LSA planes, and if you want to rent it, it needs to be an S-LSA which limits it even further. I wouldn't change the weight/power limits but add specific planes. Cessna 150/152, Piper Tomahawk, Grumman AA5, etc. The whole point of Sport Pilot was to fly for fun at least expand the ability to rent "something" available. I wouldn't be apposed to adding the 172 or PA28 or the like. Maybe limited to 139kts or 4cyl engines or something.
Thanks Lewthor. There certainly is a class of production aircraft with performance limitations that closely resemble those of an LSA, and hopefully the FAA will open these up to Sport Pilots.
@@rv12sg Preliminary MOSAIC rules were published. From what I could read (it's 318 pages!) in summary they changed the stall speed from 45kts to 54kts with a top 250kts. No restrictions on weight specifically, no number of seats which will open a lot more doors for renting a plane! Having 4 seats doesn't allow more passengers which I think is fair, it opens the door for bringing along a pet or "stuff". So far, the suggested change seems pretty nice! Especially for sport pilots being able to rent aircraft.
@@Lewthor I saw that too. I think this is great and far more than I expected. As a sport pilot I would be able to rent a Bonanza and fly at night. Let’s hope this passes unchallenged.
@@Lewthor Yes! I am pretty excited about the prospect of having access to renting a larger plane from time to time. The new rules are quite a bit more open than I had expected. I think many people might opt for the Sport Pilot license instead of going for the Private simply because it is cheaper and other than the 1 passenger rule approaches the same privileges as the Private has. Kudos to the FAA, because it is rare that a government authority would be so flexible.
Very exciting. What do you think this will do to aircraft values? A group of aircraft will suddenly have a larger group of people in the purchase pool for sure. Thanks for the video
I hear ya' Cody. Fact is some of the Vans kit builts will outperform most production aircraft. My hat's off to anyone who has the skill to build one. I am relegated to the low and slow LSA though. Next time I see an RV 9 fly by I'll assume it's you. 😃
I enjoy watching your RV-12 videos and completely agree. As a sport pilot, I too decided the only choice was to own my own plane. I am in the process of building an RV-12iS. I have my airspace/airport endorsements for Class D and C. I really don't see the issue with offering endorsements for specific aircraft. I believe, the single best way to increase Sport Pilot popularity is to open up the number of available aircraft.
Thanks Doug. As luck would have it, the day you finish your RV-12iS will be the day the FAA opens everything up to Sport Pilots flying normal production aircraft. But you will have the last laugh - you will have a brand new RV-12iS. They are a thrill to fly. I hope you complete yours soon.
I am ok with the operation limitations for sport pilots as they are regarding max altitude, day VFR only and controlled airspace being a log book endorsement however I do believe the max gross weight needs to almost double, max cruise speed should increase as well as stall speed. Why not include 4 seaters into the mix since weight and speed should increase? To me the added weight, horsepower and climb rates would make for a safer and easier aircraft to operate. Flying a 1,320lb aircraft in any sort of gusting winds on final feels like flying in a paper plane. But that’s just my 2 cents. Cheers
I tossed these ideas around in my head, too. The issue becomes this, I think: if we expand the scope of what a Sport Pilot can do then how is it different than the privileges of a Private Pilot? Sure, a Private Pilot can fly at night and can get IFR rated but many do not. If speeds and passenger carrying ability move up the scale, then there will be little to differentiate the two licenses. I guess we just wait and see what the FAA decides.
@@rv12sg My thoughts on those points would be that more people would be inclined to get a sport license, spending less time and money, if that's all they are looking to do. I'm working on my sport license only because I lucked into finding out it was even a thing. Several people I've talked to about it who are interested in flying only within the limitations of sport did not even know about it. Personally, beyond expanded aircraft capabilities, I would love if more things became logbook endorsements or some other option opening up further aircraft - such as complex aircraft options or even night flying. If you can prove you can do it with a CFI, why not open the air to more people through a sport license or less restrictions for a private license? My two cents as well! I would love to check out an RV-12 one of these days - they're on the short list of planes I drool over thinking about buying some day. Thanks for the videos.
2000 lbs on 115 horsepower? Think I’ll pass. Anything less than 150 horsepower wouldn’t even match your 1320lb/100hp ratio. 2000lbs. 65 knots stall. 200 hp. 4 seats. Done
Thanks Coyote for your comment. Actually I didn’t envision 2,000 lbs and 115 HP achieving 120 kts. My RV-12 doesn’t get 120 knots at its light weight and 95 HP. I proposed those specs at the max values. Who knows how that might evolve - someone might find the heavier weight to be a desirable attribute over speed. It’s all about limits. But we have to be cautious that our expectations don’t require the LSA to match what normally certificated plane can do. That is the reason I feel 115 HP is the right fit.
Your statements are contradictory tho. If the max weight is 2000 and max HP is 115 then power to weight ratio is going to be WAY lower than what you currently experience. 2000lbs on 115 HP in high density altitude sounds like an undesirable endeavor. And raising weight 680 lbs without significantly raising HP would be pretty bad. As you already point out, max speed would drop at 2000/115. It’s pretty reasonable to expect the stall speed to be much higher too. So now in your scenario stall is higher. Max speed is lower. The envelope is way smaller. Nothing about that makes sense. HP has to go up with weight. It’s a pretty basic requirement for safety I think.
@@azcoyote007 You're right. Message to my viewers: Perhaps I should have suggested a more reasonable 1500 pounds max weight. Thank you Coyote for bringing some rational thought to this.
@@rv12sg Personally I’m hoping it’s about 1600 minimum but 2000 would be fantastic. 1600 tho seems to open the space for most LSA to go full tanks, two reasonable sized occupants and luggage. My desire for 140 knots is just to meet what I think a good cross country mission speed would look like. I could make the trips I want to do in two days with 3-4 hour legs that cover some distance. Thanks for the channel! I really enjoy your content as well. If you ever need a right seater in PHX let know. Always wanted to fly in a Vans. :)
Thanks for your RV-12 videos and for sharing your ideas on the MOSAIC topic. I am a Sport Pilot and am deep into building my own RV-12iS. I am fortunate that I am able to locally rent various LSA aircraft including RV-12iS. It's a big plus for me to regularly fly an RV-12 as I build one. I realize most Sport Pilots don't have many if any LSA renting options so I'm interested to see what the FAA comes up with to expand the LSA definition. Hopefully, there will be a big reveal at Oshkosh this year and no more delays getting this implemented.
Thank you, Jon. I will tell you, as I tell others, that I am in awe of anyone who undertakes to build a kit plane. In your case it sounds like you’re maybe well past the halfway point. I’m sure it’s a motivator to you that you can fly today what you’ll build tomorrow.
I agree with your views. The planes are the hindrance of the Sport Pilot Certificate. There just aren't very many LSA planes, and if you want to rent it, it needs to be an S-LSA which limits it even further. I wouldn't change the weight/power limits but add specific planes. Cessna 150/152, Piper Tomahawk, Grumman AA5, etc. The whole point of Sport Pilot was to fly for fun at least expand the ability to rent "something" available. I wouldn't be apposed to adding the 172 or PA28 or the like. Maybe limited to 139kts or 4cyl engines or something.
Thanks Lewthor. There certainly is a class of production aircraft with performance limitations that closely resemble those of an LSA, and hopefully the FAA will open these up to Sport Pilots.
@@rv12sg Preliminary MOSAIC rules were published. From what I could read (it's 318 pages!) in summary they changed the stall speed from 45kts to 54kts with a top 250kts. No restrictions on weight specifically, no number of seats which will open a lot more doors for renting a plane! Having 4 seats doesn't allow more passengers which I think is fair, it opens the door for bringing along a pet or "stuff". So far, the suggested change seems pretty nice! Especially for sport pilots being able to rent aircraft.
@@Lewthor I saw that too. I think this is great and far more than I expected. As a sport pilot I would be able to rent a Bonanza and fly at night. Let’s hope this passes unchallenged.
@@Lewthor Yes! I am pretty excited about the prospect of having access to renting a larger plane from time to time. The new rules are quite a bit more open than I had expected. I think many people might opt for the Sport Pilot license instead of going for the Private simply because it is cheaper and other than the 1 passenger rule approaches the same privileges as the Private has. Kudos to the FAA, because it is rare that a government authority would be so flexible.
Very exciting. What do you think this will do to aircraft values? A group of aircraft will suddenly have a larger group of people in the purchase pool for sure. Thanks for the video
Let me fly an RV9 and I’ll be a happy man.
I hear ya' Cody. Fact is some of the Vans kit builts will outperform most production aircraft. My hat's off to anyone who has the skill to build one. I am relegated to the low and slow LSA though. Next time I see an RV 9 fly by I'll assume it's you. 😃
I enjoy watching your RV-12 videos and completely agree. As a sport pilot, I too decided the only choice was to own my own plane. I am in the process of building an RV-12iS. I have my airspace/airport endorsements for Class D and C. I really don't see the issue with offering endorsements for specific aircraft. I believe, the single best way to increase Sport Pilot popularity is to open up the number of available aircraft.
Thanks Doug. As luck would have it, the day you finish your RV-12iS will be the day the FAA opens everything up to Sport Pilots flying normal production aircraft. But you will have the last laugh - you will have a brand new RV-12iS. They are a thrill to fly. I hope you complete yours soon.
I am ok with the operation limitations for sport pilots as they are regarding max altitude, day VFR only and controlled airspace being a log book endorsement however I do believe the max gross weight needs to almost double, max cruise speed should increase as well as stall speed. Why not include 4 seaters into the mix since weight and speed should increase? To me the added weight, horsepower and climb rates would make for a safer and easier aircraft to operate. Flying a 1,320lb aircraft in any sort of gusting winds on final feels like flying in a paper plane. But that’s just my 2 cents. Cheers
I tossed these ideas around in my head, too. The issue becomes this, I think: if we expand the scope of what a Sport Pilot can do then how is it different than the privileges of a Private Pilot? Sure, a Private Pilot can fly at night and can get IFR rated but many do not. If speeds and passenger carrying ability move up the scale, then there will be little to differentiate the two licenses. I guess we just wait and see what the FAA decides.
@@rv12sg My thoughts on those points would be that more people would be inclined to get a sport license, spending less time and money, if that's all they are looking to do. I'm working on my sport license only because I lucked into finding out it was even a thing. Several people I've talked to about it who are interested in flying only within the limitations of sport did not even know about it. Personally, beyond expanded aircraft capabilities, I would love if more things became logbook endorsements or some other option opening up further aircraft - such as complex aircraft options or even night flying. If you can prove you can do it with a CFI, why not open the air to more people through a sport license or less restrictions for a private license? My two cents as well! I would love to check out an RV-12 one of these days - they're on the short list of planes I drool over thinking about buying some day. Thanks for the videos.
2000 lbs on 115 horsepower? Think I’ll pass. Anything less than 150 horsepower wouldn’t even match your 1320lb/100hp ratio. 2000lbs. 65 knots stall. 200 hp. 4 seats. Done
Thanks Coyote for your comment. Actually I didn’t envision 2,000 lbs and 115 HP achieving 120 kts. My RV-12 doesn’t get 120 knots at its light weight and 95 HP. I proposed those specs at the max values. Who knows how that might evolve - someone might find the heavier weight to be a desirable attribute over speed. It’s all about limits. But we have to be cautious that our expectations don’t require the LSA to match what normally certificated plane can do. That is the reason I feel 115 HP is the right fit.
Your statements are contradictory tho. If the max weight is 2000 and max HP is 115 then power to weight ratio is going to be WAY lower than what you currently experience. 2000lbs on 115 HP in high density altitude sounds like an undesirable endeavor. And raising weight 680 lbs without significantly raising HP would be pretty bad. As you already point out, max speed would drop at 2000/115. It’s pretty reasonable to expect the stall speed to be much higher too. So now in your scenario stall is higher. Max speed is lower. The envelope is way smaller. Nothing about that makes sense. HP has to go up with weight. It’s a pretty basic requirement for safety I think.
@@azcoyote007 You're right. Message to my viewers: Perhaps I should have suggested a more reasonable 1500 pounds max weight. Thank you Coyote for bringing some rational thought to this.
@@rv12sg Personally I’m hoping it’s about 1600 minimum but 2000 would be fantastic. 1600 tho seems to open the space for most LSA to go full tanks, two reasonable sized occupants and luggage. My desire for 140 knots is just to meet what I think a good cross country mission speed would look like. I could make the trips I want to do in two days with 3-4 hour legs that cover some distance. Thanks for the channel! I really enjoy your content as well. If you ever need a right seater in PHX let know. Always wanted to fly in a Vans. :)