Hot Bluing Video
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- Before ANY ONE ELSE!!!!!!!!!! decides to tell me what I'm doing wrong with maintaining temperature control - READ THIS!
Black Oxide Temperature - Since water boils at 212F at sea level and the operating temperature of Oxiblak is 290-295F, black oxide salts must be added to the bath to raise its boiling temperature. To understand how the amount of salts in a solution affects the boiling point, you must understand that adding salts to the solution makes it stronger and denser. Denser liquids have higher boiling points. Adding water to the solution lowers the density and, therefore, lowers the solution boiling point.
When the boiling point is correct, the solution concentration is correct.
Oxiblak has a recommended operating temperature of 290-295F. The black oxide operating temperature is not controlled by the heat source, it is controlled by the combination of the heat source and the concentration of chemicals in the solution. Never try to obtain the proper operating temperature of a black oxide bath by adjusting the tank's heating system up or down. The heat source should be set for the day at a gentle rolling boil - then you can maintain the proper operating
temperature with the additions of salts or water. For example, if your solution is boiling at 275F, you must add black oxide salts to your tank which will result in a denser solution and raise the boiling point. If your solution is boiling at 290F, you must add room temperature water to the tank to
create a thinner solution which will lower the boiling point.
Boiling Point - The boiling point of a black oxide bath is indicated by a slight eruption in one corner or along the sidewall of the tank. This slight eruption along with the proper operating temperature indicates that blackening is occurring. A black oxide tank can be heated to the proper operating temperature but without this boiling action - blackening will not occur
2:34 "It's like Alien blood, I'm serious." - *He's not joking folks.* Bluing salts are PH lvl 14 and has to be at a rolling boil - when I went to gunsmithing school we basically wore full body rubber condoms. Rubber gloves all the way to the armpits, long rubber apron all the way to our boots and protective blast shields over our heads and faces. Even directly inhaling the fumes can put you on a respirator for the rest of your life. Bluing salts are nothing to play with unless you know what you're doing.
That's interesting. Did you enjoy the school? I would love to do something like that.
@@fukcg00gle95 If you're looking to do it for your own enjoyment, certainly. If you're intent on doing it towards the goal of making your own custom firearms or starting a business in firearms - I'd recommend against. We're currently on a downward slope and I foresee us losing our rights either this administration or the next one. Be it by illegal means or no.
I loved going to school, I enjoyed the work, I had a lot of fun with the people I went to school with: but under the current circumstances, I couldn't possible in good conscious recommend someone else do so towards the goal of employment or career - when that would constitute an enormous investment and the career opportunities seem tenuous.
@Daniel If you're hot salt bluing in a tank like that: you should really have a full ventilation system because even the fumes coming off the tank are caustic. Beyond that, wearing a forced air unit with filter would probably work, or a double fan set up so the entire thing operates in a wind tunnel which points out a door.
There are plenty of bluing alternatives which, may not be as fast - but will produce equal (and better) results. I.E. rust bluing. The whole reason the gun industry switched to hot salt was simply production speed. It's cheaper than electro plating, faster than rust bluing, far easier than color case hardening: however, each of those offer superior protection to hot salt bluing.
If you're doing small scale stuff, just a garage shop or maybe a small low order threshold business: I recommend nitre bluing, rust bluing, electroless nickel plating, phosphate or even some of the spray on options which can really produce quite good results with practice. If you want to be slick about it, and I mean popped collar pink polo shirt and dark sunglasses circa 1986 slick - for blade work, you can nitre blue - as part of - your temper cycling.
Good evening. What materials are used in dye in detail? How much is the amount of articles to some and water quantity ??
"It's like Alien blood..." HA! Game over man, game over!!!
Liked watching the craftsmanship, and pride in your work; too little of both.
to soak iron, or metal, how long, and how much the temperature that is needed,, and any chemical that is in use
Lovely work there. I'm loving all these metallurgy videos. I've been working with so many more types of steel lately, and I wouldn't be as far along as I am if it weren't for the generous community of UA-cam. Thanks for the upload.
B bpg%
Could you perhaps tell me what the bluing salts consist of exactly? I'm out in South Africa and not all these products are available here directly.
I truly do not know the chemicals involved. Some companies make this a proprietary secret. Some serious internet searches should be able to help you discover this.
@@KarlBAndersen thanks for the reply. I'll have a chat with a few local gunsmiths in the area. Perhaps they'd be willing to let me in their recipes....
Now I know why I need to send my gun parts to a bluing service.
That's beautiful! After seeing how it comes out of the hot blueing I think I might have that done to my Junglas.
What state are you in
Do you buy a commercial mix of bluing salts or do you mix your own ?
I would like to make a set up like yours. What kind of steel is the tank made of? I have access to some mild steel sheet, but I know there is a very small amount of copper in it.
Thanks
Seth
Copper can potentially neutralize your salts, so be careful. I bought my tanks from the salt supplier - Brownells - who refer to the tanks as "black iron".
I'm ON IT! I have done it at higher temp no water!
I like this better!
Any residual crystal can be heated off with torch and can add to the affect or soaked off in HOT water also helping dry with hot metal.
Biol in TSP 1st and it cleans Very well!
Nice! Seems like few people got blue these days. Love the contrast!
Seems like you passed that science class and a lot more, beautiful work and tells us why they're so expensive retail... Great work Sir...
I want to sell my father's old bluing tanks, but they are rusty in places. Will that adversely effect the bluing process?
No.
Please can you tell me about the formula or material to make exellent solution .
Were do you buy the blueing salts and were can I go to learn a little more before I try blueing gun are knives because it really sounds like you no what you are doing I thank you for all the help I can get
You cab buy your salts numerous places. One place is Brownell's. The salts come with very specific direction on their use. They also have technicians you can call for trouble-shooting questions. Learn by doing.
That’s really nice
I wanna ask question can i mix that salt ??? I am in the Middle East now and that stuff not available here???
I believe you can, but I do not know the chemistry of it.
Karl Andersen
Thanks for replying
I wish if I found it to repainting my hunting shotgun
sami mohamad
www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/caustic-hot-blue.13837/
Thanks for the video, funny it seems counterintuitive to add water to increase boiling. So what are the blueing salts? I have an heirloom gun that needs blueing, thanks again
Adding water does not "increase boiling". When adding water you are simply replacing the water that has boiled away. As the water leaves the mixture it, the mixture becomes heavier and it takes more heat to make it boil, which increases the boiling temperature. By replacing the water as it boils away, you are maintaining the boiling temperature which is critical.
I have no idea the recipe of the salts. It's a special mixture and I just buy it. I'll let the professionals make it.
Karl Andersen I don’t want to make it just know where I can buy/what’s the brand name so I can look it up, yep that’s what I meant increase boiling by decreasing the boiling temperature by adding water thanks again, very informative video
@@justinkemeter Brownells - Oxynate #7.
What salt or solution do you use, i guess sodium nitrite and sodium hydroxide.
I buy pre-manufactured salts and do not know the ingredients.
@@KarlBAndersen yes I do agree that's far more better mixtures of solution in pre- manufactured salts. salute to you. Which brand do you use please let me know sir 👍👍
@@akumamer I use 2 different ones.. Oxynate #7 from Brownells and Oxi-Black from Du-Lite. They both perform well.
where do you get these kinds of salts?
www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/caustic-hot-blue.13837/
Awesome blade, I wonder how much are they?
That video was eight years ago. Today a knife made from some Damascus like that would run $700+
Does this effect the temper of the blade and change its hardness?
No. The temps do not exceed 300 degrees. Too cool to effect anything.
When I tell you, you'll feel foolish like I did when I first figured it out.
Rather than go from a liquid immediately to an explosive gas, make it solid first!
Ice cubes.
Drop in ice cubes one at a time to adjust specific gravity.
By the time they go from solid to liquid, they immediately begin absorbing salts and it is much less violent.
Excellent! A true Master craftsman at work. Very well done! Thank you for sharing.
are you the same Anderson that's on bladegallery? I can't remember if you were at the mka show in 2011, If so, I always find your blades attractive when I'm looking for new ideas. thank you for this video! Mike Ball.
Mike, I don't think I have ever had a knife on Blade Gallery. And I've never been to the MKA show. Sorry, buddy.
What kind of solutions you use in this tank.plz tell me
I do not know the chemicals
www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/metal-bluing/bluing-salts/oxynate-no-7-prod1066.aspx
@@KarlBAndersen thanks bro
Wow man, that's gorgeous, That damascus kind of has an aztec looking pattern. Thanks for showing the process.
WD-40 is water displacing oil. Could you use that?
It's a different animal than what is used. It might work. I'll continue to use the prescribed oil. I have two gallons of WD40 in the shop. But it won't go near my hot-bluing process.
@@KarlBAndersen Which oil would you recommend? I have a 1956 Marlin LeverMatic I'd like to do. Not a valuable rifle but I like shooting it and it is unique enough that I think it deserves to be taken care of. I bought it off the "sad sack" pile and cleaned it up so it is "OK" but now I'd like to go a bit further and rust blue it. Any advise is appreciated. Thanks
@@richmcintyre1178 I use the Water Displacing oil from Brownell's.
It’s so sad that there aren’t many guys still doing this kind of work, so much mass produced import goods, it really hurts guys like this who hand make everything in their workshop and make absolutely stunning products. Anyways, thanks for taking the time to show us your work, the finished product is absolutely beautiful... now if I can just find someone to hot blue my sks....
Well if everyone didnt want everything for nothing guys like this would be more available but everyone want something for nothing so order from over seas , now look how thats working out , made in china means something else now doesnt it , lets see how many people will continue to support china now , ive aalways tryed to keep my money in my country and only buy from over seas when nobody here makes what i need , unfortunately most things dont get made in our countries because companies only care about profits not quality or keeping our country self reliant . Now we just got cought with our pants down and are getting spanked hard , time to keep our business in house dont you think .....
Really nice demonstration and great to visit your channel seeing you are still making knives and sharing with us all. Lance & Patrick.
Is there any chance of the Salts in the tank to cause Rust on metal in other parts of the shop just by sitting out in the open?
I thought that they had to be cleaned up and in a container?
It's not a good idea to leave the container open. I made a cover for the tanks and keep them closed when not in use.
Why not just buy deionized or RO water?
I use RO water now. Look at the year of the video.
People ask me why? Because I enjoy bluing! 😄 As bunkers as that sounds, I can relate 👍 Man all those tanks, I just wanna come over for some steam inhalation to open my sinuses! Thoroughly enjoyed the video, educational and entertaining 👍 thank you very much.
That's a really nice knife profile!
What are the ingredients of this mixture
I do not know. I buy it already made.
Snow,,,. Interesting. there's minerals in snow, dust too. It's often called poor farmer's fertilizer because of the minerals,. How does the RO water compare to snow melt?
Can you use distilled water ?
No you must use snow or else it won’t work, how else would you get water that’s been evaporated and condensed again?
justin Thomas 😂😂😂 I see what you did there. Bravo. 😂😂
How this work is carried out
Alien blood and gnats breath? Yeeeeeeehaaaaw, I love it! God bless you and this great video.
Looks good after the sanding, but I really liked the look of it just being plain blued too.
Is there any danger of the hot temperatures mess with your temper on the blade
Nope. 192 F is not hot enough to effect anything.
I had a business doing this for years on commercial parts. When you get the tank cooking it took about two minutes to do a knife at gun barrel. The prettiest piece we would do would be mirror polished steel. Nice job.
Thankyou for sharing! You are a fine teacher and covered all the bases
What happens to the finish if the water is allowed to evaporate causing the temperature to increase?
That's a knife! Nice!
I'm sorry for not answering this in a timely manner - the steel becomes awfully discolored and is not desirable.
Beautiful blade. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
yes, I also looked Brownells and saw "black iron" I talked to everyone and the black iron is the most generic term ever used. It describes black paint to unpainted steel. What I think it means in this situation is a high iron content, but i do not know.
thanks
seth
I assure you there is no paint involved. The bluing salts are very fragile and can be neutralized easily. Think of "Black Pipe" you get in the hardware store. It is low alloy steel that has a black iron oxide - raw iron - on the surface. This ensures there are no potential neutralizing alloys coming in contact with the salts.
A honored as I am to have you ask - I simply would not have the time for any extra projects until later this coming Summer.
What do you use to clean off the gnat's breath?
Nuns farts
whats chemical used in hot bluing i have a pistol i wand to colour my pistol in home i dont know this process plz
I do not know what the chemicals are. I buy the product from Brownells
potassium nitrite and sodium hydroxide Very nasty stuff, I wouldn't do it unless you know exactly what your doing.
I do. I don't drink it.
What lathe is that in the background?
That's a tough question, right there.
thanks. i been looking up plans. very beautiful knives you make, I only been making about a year. It never gets old
your tank is not big enough the water will evaporate you will not easily maintain the temp, also the salt solution is too close to the top of the tank if your not constantly monitoring it it will flow over the top of the tank
Dude!! I've been using that EXACT set-up for 15 years!!!!!!! The salt doesn't boil over. The tank is plenty large for that size burner. I could use a smaller tank. Jeeze. Watch the video - is it boiling over? No.
Sir, your work is amazing at true piece of art, thank you for sharing.
Good video .
Thank you.
Davie Crockette
Karl you're an artist.
Very interesting
That’s just WD-40 right?
No. Water Displacing oil. www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/post-finish-surface-protection/1-gallon-sku082057128-1086-3913.aspx
nice video man
Snow is full of dirt particles. Distilled water is much cleaner.
That's why you only take the snow off the top. By that time the air has basically been "scrubbed" free of particles. That said, particles of "dirt" would have no ill effect on the bluing process. Distilled water can be very harmful if it is distilled in anything NOT glass. Copper tubing used in the distillation process can literally neutralize the salts. Look at my results. I've been hot-bluing for 2 decades. The results speak for themselves. www.andersenforge.com
I'm glad I was able to help.
Thanks again for the very interesting and informative video.
You got simple thermometer with 5 degree hash marks and 2 simple propane burners and you're boiling off water so you have to add cold water all the time and you make claims that you maintain temperature within 1 degree! You can't even read thermometer in one degree so how would you even know you're off by one degree? Get electric heating element and PID controller (cheap to build one) and you have much greater chance to actually maintain that.
And why snow? Any water stored for any period of time will grow algae how do you not notice that especially snow that could have been easily contaminated. Why not just buy few gallons of distilled water from your grocery store?
You need to take a closer look at that thermometer smart ass. It's a calibrated gunsmithing thermometer from Brownells. They run about 50 bucks. And your foolish comments show you know little about maintaining a constant temp in a brine solution with the water continually vaporizing. You missed the point where the water temp must be controlled AT A BOIL! If it's boiling the water is constantly vaporizing and LEAVING the mixture thus raising the boiling temp. The water must be replaced. I get tired of you peple who don't do caustic bluing suggesting they can tell me how to do something I've done for 20+ years " 6) TEMPERATURE CONTROL OFTHE BLUING SOLUTION - The single most common cause of trouble for the beginning gun bluer is
not understanding the absolute importance of maintaining temperature control - and how to do it.
If you fully understand the principle of “supersaturation” described
above, you will see that as the temperature of the Bluing Solution rises above 292° F., it can be brought down by adding water. If the
temperature is too low (below 292° F.), it can be raised back up to 292° F. by allowing water to boil out of the Bluing Solution or by adding
more Bluing Salts to the Bluing Solution. In other words, the key to temperature control in the Bluing Solution is to closely monitor the
temperature and add water or Bluing Salts, or let water boil out to maintain the optimum operating conditions of a vigorous, rolling boil
at 292° F.
Because the Bluing Solution operates at a vigorous boil, which creates a lot of steam, it is constantly losing a lot of water, and the
temperature will consistently rise - unless you frequently add water to the Bluing Solution to replace the water being boiled away and lost from the solution. . Therefore, ADD WATER FREQUENTLY TO
THE BLUING SOLUTION. If you do not, the temperature will rise, the Bluing Solution will go out of the correct chemical balance to turn
the guns blue-black, and will instead , at the higher temperatures, turn the parts red, or shades of red.
DO NOT: Do Not ever try to control the operating temperature of your Bluing Solution by just turning the heat source up or down.
Black Oxide Temperature - Since water boils at 212F at sea level and the operating temperature of Oxiblak is 290-295F,
black oxide salts must be added to the bath to raise its boiling temperature. To understand how the amount of salts in a solution
affects the boiling point, you must understand that adding salts to the solution makes it stronger and denser. Denser liquidshave
higher boiling points. Adding water to the solution lowers the density and, therefore, lowers the solution boiling point.
When the boiling point is correct, the solution concentration is correct.
Oxiblak has a recommended operating temperature of 290-295F. The black oxide operating temperature is not controlled
solely by the heat source, it is controlled by the combination of the heat source and the concentration of chemicals in the
solution. Never try to obtain the proper operating temperature of a black oxide bath by adjusting the tank's heating systemup or
down. The heat source should be set for the day at a gentle rolling boil - then you can maintain the proper operating
temperature with the additions of salts or water. For example, if your solution is boiling at 275F, you must add black oxide salts to your tank which will result in a denser
solution and raise the boiling point. If your solution is boiling at 290F, you must add room temperature water to the tank to
create a thinner solution which will lower the boiling point.
Boiling Point - The boiling point of a black oxide bath is indicated by a slight eruption in one corner or along the sidewall of
the tank. This slight eruption along with the proper operating temperature indicates that blackening is occurring. A black
oxide tank can be heated to the proper operating temperature but without this boiling action - blackening will not occur
@@KarlBAndersen You mean the bluing thermometer (not gunsmithing) from Brownell's that's actually rebranded Tel-Tru? Is your definition of "calibrated" because it has fat black mark that occupied at least 5 degrees worth of space? Brownell description says nothing about "calibrated" but that's not the point, you missed my point - the thermometer does not have 1 degree hasmarks! So you're claims of maintaining to 1 degree is nothing but exaggeration! Stick a digital thermometer and you will see the temperature fluctuate way more than one degree!
I said the same thing that you are just repeating now about adding more water to replace vaporized one, no need to repeat I understood perfectly from the video my point was that by adding more water which is in the ice cube form as you wrote in comments and keeping it all within 1 degree is once again a bogus claim that you can't proof because you don't have accurate tools to measure your solution to a 1 degree - that's all I am saying - nothing more. I am sure you know your bluing I am not doubting your skills for a second.
@@KarlBAndersen Why are you telling me all this? I never questioned any of this and I never said its wrong or doubt it, you're reading too much into it without actually paying attention to what I was saying.
@@DimaProk Because you're suggesting to use a PID controller to control heat. If you think that's how the temp is controlled then you don't understand the process. That's why I'm telling you all this. I shared the info from two different bluing supply companies so you can learn something.
love that blade and hot bluing. what kind of vice is that
I can only assume you are referring to the knife vise?
It's basically just a round pipe inside another round pipe.
I made mine but just search for "pipe vise".
That sir, is a work of art.
Gorgeous knife!
My heart bleeds for you table saw.
That video was 7 or 8 years ago. I'm still using the same table saw. She lived.
I've never seen a powermatic so disrespected.
I really like the clean work area you keep.
Thank you, so much. The only thing that matters is what happens inside the tank.
@@KarlBAndersen You'd never make it in a union shop. We have all of our work areas clean and orderly. It makes for a safer work environment and helps achieve consecutive days without a work loss injury.
@@texassportsman5880 Big difference between working in a union shop and working in a part time one-man garage. I'd "make it" in a union shop just fine.
@@texassportsman5880 And that place was almost a decade a go. I have a dedicated work shop now. Don't miss the point of the video. I've been working in shops since 1968.
beautiful work!
Simple green and hot water.
That's badass, sir.
It's fun!
Thanks buddy keep up the awesome videos
Love the video and detailed information
awesome work,, could I pay you to blue some reloading dies,, I have always wanted them blued,,
Just trying to get through this life in one piece!!
Çok eskiden motosiklet zincirlerini borik asitli yağda kaynatırlarmış. Eski motosiklet tamircisi anlatmıştı. Dayanıklı olsun diye.
(Görmedim duydum)
nice blade. too good to use.
Buy from Brownells.
Brownell's gun smithing supply.
It's an older 6" Atlas.
Thanks for sharing!
You are correct.
Awesome video
km
Straight up knife porn that is right there!
Affirmative!
Very nice
Not bad, eh?!!
awesome!
damps must be healthy
Damps?
@@KarlBAndersen fumes
@@thieFdown It's water and salt...so water vapor. I'm usually in the other room while it's bluing.
@@KarlBAndersen oh wow, how much salt per unit water do you use? I tought it was some kind of acid you used...
@@thieFdown It's not just "salt" they are "bluing salts" that fall into the chemical salt family. They do not create "fumes" as they don't convert into a gas. Any of the salts in the tank can only come out in the water as it leaves in a vapor. That said - they are VERY!! caustic and would be unhealthy if breathed.
Good
It is not Damascus it is folded steel there is a huge difference.
I did no folding whatsoever. You need to watch this for a little education son: ua-cam.com/video/ISSGL4Ns2qw/v-deo.html
@@KarlBAndersen it’s still not Damascus
@@ChickenPermissionOG How much of this steel have you made?
@@ChickenPermissionOG It's 100% DAMASCUS.
@@KarlBAndersen You're a fraud Damascus has not been made since 1750 and anyone who knew how it was made is dead.
??
??