Small correction at 23:47 - 24:26: Clone Hero doesn't extend the hit window at all for EHW/fret after strumming/strum leniency (what the code refers it to). When you strum and a note cannot be hit by it (i.e no matching fret/strummed before fret) a timer is started from whatever the strum leniency amount is (its actually 84ms in CH). While that timer is ticking down, the game is withholding an overstrum for the player and waiting for the correct fret to be pressed. If the correct fret is pressed within the time, the timer is cancelled and no overstrum occurs. If the timer runs out before the correct fret is pressed then you get an overstrum. In the case of extending the back end, this isn't possible in Clone Hero. If the notes leaves the back end (70ms past the strikeline) then the note will miss, no matter the circumstances. If your strum leniency timer is active at this point, it will still tick down and you can overstrum after missing the note as well. There is only one case of "extended window" in Clone Hero, and it is still related to strumming but it's in the front end, and isn't really extending the actual hit window. The game has a secondary, smaller, value of strum leniency which is used instead if there are NO notes currently in the hit window (the whole 140ms front and back). If this is the case and you strum, the game starts the strum leniency timer with the smaller value and withholds the overstrum like usual. The difference being that if the correct fret is held as the note enters the hit window (so the exact frame it's within the 140ms window) the note will automatically hit and the strum is taken. If the correct fret is not held then the timer continues to tick down until it expires and you overstrum. That last mechanic can be abused to get perfect early hits when squeezing as you will get the hit the frame it enters the window, no earlier or later. This can make front end squeezing a little bit easier in some cases. It can also be used to get frame perfect early whammy (starting a SP sustain as early as possible will award more whammy SP than if you hit it directly on the strikeline or late).
I had no idea you get extra starpower if you hit a sustain earlier.. this gives me an idea to get a more optimal score on an on tour decades song crushcrushcrush that I could never figure out how i could get more points on! 15 years later and this is the first thing that popped into my head reading that 😂 wow I appreciate the insight on this. That is if the engine on DS games works the same as clone hero.
I SWEAR TO GOD HEARING YOU TALK ABOUT THE GH2 HOPO GLITCH WAS THE MOST FREEING EXPERIENCE OF MY LIFE. I’ve had that happen to me so many times to the point that I understood that sometimes I’d just need to back out of a song because I kept missing the same note, but I genuinely thought I was just insane and my brain was doing some muscle memory fuck shit to miss everytime, because in my head id just think ‘there’s no way that’s real’ and when I tried to look it up I didn’t find anything so I just assumed I was losing my mind. I’ve always just called them ‘ghost notes and have been assuming this was some random hyper specific mental block I have that makes me need to back out of a song for a mental reset or something. I feel so fucking vindicated right now, that shit was NOT MY FAULT
This video had the same energy as when you had to make a Powerpoint presentation in high school but you could pick any topic you wanted. Given how much nuance there is in each game's engine, I could easily see this being an extensive multi-part series.
10:10 Should be noted that in Fortnite Festival the multiplier increase is reduced from 10 notes to 8 notes. 2 note chords count as 2 notes and 3 note chords count as 3 notes (something GH and RB didn't do).
Currently emulating all the old games after having not touched them in like 15 years. Even bought a Wiitar and V3 adapter to get back into it. This series will be a huge help! Didn't even know about the strumming before fretting thing. Thanks boys.
1:50 the rule thing broke me so hard🤣 55:35 - Brasil metioned 1:12:30 - I started playing on a GH brasilian bootleg, now that explain why i feel that most game hit windows are so tight(there you can adjust the hit window in difficulty, for me it is a way better to link difficulty for those who want to play all notes even on easy) and i take forever to learn hopos, because it dont have that back there, and there was also a bass grove star power, the more you hit, it fills the star power and then release it as a star power sequence :'v , (Bootleg called Guitar idol)
Really appreciate you saying the GH1 HOPOs work differently, I see a lot of people on the GH subreddit just say they 'don't work' when they just work differently to 2 and onwards - and if memory serves even the later tutorials explain it the same way as GH1, I only found out it could be tapped by total accident when I felt I strummed super late once but kept the sustain going! It's also quite frustrating because I learned to do them the GH1 way and just assumed that's what you had to do going forward - even the descending triplets in Woman or Knights of Cydonia, I'd look at that and go 'ah, so I have to put put my fingers back on Y and B as B hits the strikeline and repeat the pull-off' and it's only recently I've learned 'no, people just tap them one by one' - even Raining Blood!
1:18:15 : Worth noting that, at least on PS4, FNF's calibration settings move the notes without moving the hit window. If you set video to 500ms, the notes will be offset, but the window will be at the top of the highway. Great fun when you have a noticeable delay and you just have to live with it for the 6 or so months the mode has been out :)
Small correction regarding the HOPO glitch in GH2 It's not enough to just miss a HOPO to get the glitch to occur. You also have to ghost fret an incorrect note at the time the HOPO crosses the strikeline.
Don't panic too much, it's actually a GOOGLE SLIDES How do I know, you may ask? I helped recoup some engine information for the later games when they were working on this presentation
57:50 small lil tidbit but you have 1 more 1x for GH at the same time 1 fewer 4x so the diff should be +50 - 200 = -150 (150 more points on GH2 style multi)
@acai28 I mean, it's just such an obscure thing, I expected it to not come up. On another note, I have noticed something rare in the older games. Sometimes, sustains are Grey after being hit. I've only seen this on actual hardware. Do you have any clue what that is?
Small correction at 23:47 - 24:26:
Clone Hero doesn't extend the hit window at all for EHW/fret after strumming/strum leniency (what the code refers it to). When you strum and a note cannot be hit by it (i.e no matching fret/strummed before fret) a timer is started from whatever the strum leniency amount is (its actually 84ms in CH). While that timer is ticking down, the game is withholding an overstrum for the player and waiting for the correct fret to be pressed. If the correct fret is pressed within the time, the timer is cancelled and no overstrum occurs. If the timer runs out before the correct fret is pressed then you get an overstrum.
In the case of extending the back end, this isn't possible in Clone Hero. If the notes leaves the back end (70ms past the strikeline) then the note will miss, no matter the circumstances. If your strum leniency timer is active at this point, it will still tick down and you can overstrum after missing the note as well.
There is only one case of "extended window" in Clone Hero, and it is still related to strumming but it's in the front end, and isn't really extending the actual hit window. The game has a secondary, smaller, value of strum leniency which is used instead if there are NO notes currently in the hit window (the whole 140ms front and back). If this is the case and you strum, the game starts the strum leniency timer with the smaller value and withholds the overstrum like usual. The difference being that if the correct fret is held as the note enters the hit window (so the exact frame it's within the 140ms window) the note will automatically hit and the strum is taken. If the correct fret is not held then the timer continues to tick down until it expires and you overstrum.
That last mechanic can be abused to get perfect early hits when squeezing as you will get the hit the frame it enters the window, no earlier or later. This can make front end squeezing a little bit easier in some cases. It can also be used to get frame perfect early whammy (starting a SP sustain as early as possible will award more whammy SP than if you hit it directly on the strikeline or late).
I had no idea you get extra starpower if you hit a sustain earlier.. this gives me an idea to get a more optimal score on an on tour decades song crushcrushcrush that I could never figure out how i could get more points on! 15 years later and this is the first thing that popped into my head reading that 😂 wow I appreciate the insight on this. That is if the engine on DS games works the same as clone hero.
Thanks guys! This is going to be SO useful to recite word for word whenever one of my friends asks me why people play on console.
I SWEAR TO GOD HEARING YOU TALK ABOUT THE GH2 HOPO GLITCH WAS THE MOST FREEING EXPERIENCE OF MY LIFE. I’ve had that happen to me so many times to the point that I understood that sometimes I’d just need to back out of a song because I kept missing the same note, but I genuinely thought I was just insane and my brain was doing some muscle memory fuck shit to miss everytime, because in my head id just think ‘there’s no way that’s real’ and when I tried to look it up I didn’t find anything so I just assumed I was losing my mind. I’ve always just called them ‘ghost notes and have been assuming this was some random hyper specific mental block I have that makes me need to back out of a song for a mental reset or something. I feel so fucking vindicated right now, that shit was NOT MY FAULT
Glad my Hangar 18 video helped u find out about the downward dawg method Alec!
This video had the same energy as when you had to make a Powerpoint presentation in high school but you could pick any topic you wanted. Given how much nuance there is in each game's engine, I could easily see this being an extensive multi-part series.
10:10 Should be noted that in Fortnite Festival the multiplier increase is reduced from 10 notes to 8 notes. 2 note chords count as 2 notes and 3 note chords count as 3 notes (something GH and RB didn't do).
Currently emulating all the old games after having not touched them in like 15 years. Even bought a Wiitar and V3 adapter to get back into it. This series will be a huge help! Didn't even know about the strumming before fretting thing. Thanks boys.
this is the moment you've all been waiting for, duuuuuh duhduhduhduhduhduhduhhhhh
Literally today I was looking for a video that explains the differences between the engines. Thank you so much for this!
1:50 the rule thing broke me so hard🤣
55:35 - Brasil metioned
1:12:30 - I started playing on a GH brasilian bootleg, now that explain why i feel that most game hit windows are so tight(there you can adjust the hit window in difficulty, for me it is a way better to link difficulty for those who want to play all notes even on easy) and i take forever to learn hopos, because it dont have that back there, and there was also a bass grove star power, the more you hit, it fills the star power and then release it as a star power sequence :'v , (Bootleg called Guitar idol)
Really appreciate you saying the GH1 HOPOs work differently, I see a lot of people on the GH subreddit just say they 'don't work' when they just work differently to 2 and onwards - and if memory serves even the later tutorials explain it the same way as GH1, I only found out it could be tapped by total accident when I felt I strummed super late once but kept the sustain going!
It's also quite frustrating because I learned to do them the GH1 way and just assumed that's what you had to do going forward - even the descending triplets in Woman or Knights of Cydonia, I'd look at that and go 'ah, so I have to put put my fingers back on Y and B as B hits the strikeline and repeat the pull-off' and it's only recently I've learned 'no, people just tap them one by one' - even Raining Blood!
this video is proof we need Moose to make the FNF tutorials
i just searched up lore hero rule 34
BIG mistake
1:18:15 : Worth noting that, at least on PS4, FNF's calibration settings move the notes without moving the hit window. If you set video to 500ms, the notes will be offset, but the window will be at the top of the highway. Great fun when you have a noticeable delay and you just have to live with it for the 6 or so months the mode has been out :)
i may be stupid
video moves notes, input moves hit window.
i love this game.
this episode is so fun this is a top three episode so far even tho i knew most of everything already u guys r the goats
Small correction regarding the HOPO glitch in GH2
It's not enough to just miss a HOPO to get the glitch to occur. You also have to ghost fret an incorrect note at the time the HOPO crosses the strikeline.
9:35 always wondered about the ropes on Wii learn something new everyday
oh god everyone panic they have a POWERPOINT
Don't panic too much, it's actually a GOOGLE SLIDES
How do I know, you may ask? I helped recoup some engine information for the later games when they were working on this presentation
Hooray! Was this my idea, or were lots of people asking for an “engine” episode?
I wanted the guitar flash's engine talk
you better add power gig to a future part istg
The whammy bar in a nutshell:
Q: Does the whammy bar give you more points?
A: Yes, but actually no. But actually yes. xD
small thing, i haven't finished the video so maybe it was mentioned, can't anchor on a chord if the note anchored is not part of the chord.
Wait what?! I've never experience the hammer on glitch in GH2. At least I can't remember it ever happening, and I've FC'ed 47/64 songs in the game
57:50 small lil tidbit but you have 1 more 1x for GH at the same time 1 fewer 4x so the diff should be +50 - 200 = -150 (150 more points on GH2 style multi)
29:05 how is that person's name spelled? I'm curious about their stuff
N O E X C E P T I O N S
Guitar Freaks mentioned!
Im shocked they actually mentioned the Dualshock changes from GH1 to the other games.
for the most part we know our shit lol
@acai28 I mean, it's just such an obscure thing, I expected it to not come up.
On another note, I have noticed something rare in the older games. Sometimes, sustains are Grey after being hit. I've only seen this on actual hardware. Do you have any clue what that is?
They brought the PowerPoint presentation 😭💀
No wayyyyy the coyote timing code is labelled as “slop” that’s too good
*starts typing on my typewriter*
Is there gonna be a test on this?
Take good notes just in case
is it bad that I like the fact that fornite festival stole the acronym from friday night here?
rule hero 34
Hasn't NTSC trogdor been FCed? I know it's only a technicality
I know its not expert so you probably don't care, but super easy in lego rock band.
hey professor? ✋
Am I early to class?
You guys gotta stop speaking at the same time lol