Why Didn't Tifa Tell The Truth? - A Psychoanalysis of Tifa Lockhart [Final Fantasy 7 / FF7 Remake]
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- Why Did Tifa Lie to Cloud in Kalm?
#finalfantasy7remake #finalfantasy7 #tifa #tifalockhart
Why did Tifa hide the truth in Kalm? In this video essay, I want to explore that question by doing a deep dive into the mind of Tifa Lockhart from Final Fantasy 7. I intend to use evidence from Final Fantasy 7, Final Fantasy 7 Remake and the trailer for Final Fantasy Rebirth and relate them with real world psychological concepts. By doing so, I hope to shed light on this question.
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Works Cited:
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This next section is just me trying to psychoanalyze the mind of youtube, so pay it no mind.
Tifa, full name Tifa Lockhart, aka tifa ff7, tifa remake, tifa ff7 remake, final fantasy tifa, ff7 remake tifa and ff7 tifa, This psychoanalysis of final fantasy 7 tifa uses evidence from Final Fantasy 7, Final Fantasy 7 Remake and Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth. It explains why did Tifa lie to Cloud, Cloud Strife, cloud and tifa deep dive. Cloud tifa scenes. FFVII Remake. - Ігри
![Why Cloud LIED About Zack - A Psychoanalysis of Cloud Strife [Final Fantasy 7]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/273WHfe9d_U/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why Cloud LIED About Zack - A Psychoanalysis of Cloud Strife [Final Fantasy 7]](/img/tr.png)
Probably just didn't want to break Cloud's psyche any worse. She knew what he was saying didn't exactly match up, but chose not to pry, for the sake of his own psyche.
That definitely played a factor, but to say that she felt certain of how things went down, after all the trauma she went through, is overselling it. She clearly doubted herself to some degree.
yeah that's literally what happened in the north crater when sephiroth spills the truth,,,,and she still doesn't say anything lmao
She was also obviously shocked over the fact that what he said was 98% accurate of what she herself remembered (the 2% being that Cloud was not there).
This makes the final Omnislash on Sephiroth that much more satisfying. He destroyed Cloud's life in every conceivable way. It's only fair to return the favor.
Also remember that the last thing Tifa saw before losing consciousness was actually Cloud, so even in her memories the idea that Cloud was actually there should sound vaguely right.
That's a really great point! Thanks for bringing it up
Wasn’t she unconscious? I don’t remember.
she was unconscious@@vulfreyde
@@Daga15correction, she was going in and out of conciousness but the pain made it impossible for her to recall anything
Wasn't it explained in-game (original FF7) that part of the reason Tifa didn't acknowledge the faults in Cloud's memories was because Jenova (and her cells) can both read & alter a person's memories? On top of the whole ability to transform into other people to deceive them, like when Sephiroth regained the Black Materia by transforming into one of the party members & tricking the holder of the Black Materia to hand it over, or tricking the scientists at Shinra who discovered her that she was one of the ancients, because she read their minds & knew that that's what they were searching for.
Thank you for your analysis. While it would have been ideal for tifa to have been more forward and honest about her memories, it makes sense she was doubting herself and was running away from it cause she doesn't want to deal with the pain of losing everything all over again. She lost her mom at the age of 8, lost her father at 16 and almost died herself, her town got burned to the ground and she had to survive on her own with nothing from her childhood to support her except for the training she got from zengen. This is why I loved her resolution scene where she cries cause she actually embraces her emotions and let's them out. And I also loved how in the sewers, aerith asks tifa how *she* is doing emotionally. I love the remake for incorporating these scenes to flesh out the characters so we can relate to them
I say it is inaccurate to say Cloud lied. As far as he was concerned, he was telling the truth, and it was partly true. He was there at the incident, but he believed he had Zack’s role.
Good analysis, I think you are spot on. I do think that conflict avoidance and worrying for Cloud's psyche also played a role, but she was definitely uncertain about her memories.
But one major reason I think you should've mentioned isn't just memory distrust, but straight up memory loss. In Neibelheim she was gravely injured. Her martial arts instructor helped her escape Shinra and got her to Midgar, but she was effectively comatose for about a month. That could definitely result in some short term memory loss around the event. And that fogginess, along with Cloud clearly knowing things that by her account he shouldn't know, it would feed into this cycle of self-doubt.
6:47 Her name IS Lockhart for a reason
This made me laugh. Great joke 😂
While I get that during traumatic events you can lose peripheral details, I disagree that this had an effect on the entire Nibelheim event and Tifa’s recollection of it. It would only have affected the Nibelheim incident (aka the traumatic parts). Tifa would have at least remembered whether Cloud was there due to her feelings for him being present within those memories, especially since his party had been in Nibelheim for a while before Sephiroth went berserk. Sephiroth was in the mansion basement presumably for days prior to the incident itself reading logs about the Jenova project which eventually caused him to snap (there are several flashes of scenes of him reading in different parts of the library with varying sizes of book stacks which connote a lapse of time and Cloud also states "not once did the lights in the basement go out"). Tifa would have also had to have had stirred feelings in re-encountering Cloud when his party first met her as their tour guide as they reunited after two years (had that actually happened but Cloud hid behind his helmet) and she also had guided the entire party up Mt. Nibel and back even before Sephiroth locked himself in the basement for days prior to the incident as well. All of those things well preceded the traumatic event itself and shouldn't have been entirely overshadowed by the Nibelheim incident. In fact, Tifa would have been elated to see Soldier Cloud come back to Nibelheim (had that happened) and it would have left a significant impression on her and would have become a strong memory because it preceded and was separated enough from the traumatic event itself and would be highly meaningful to her (both things that would significantly increase the chances of it being a stored memory). On the flip side, she would have remembered the disappointment of Cloud not being in the group because she was highly anticipating him. Therefore the Nibelheim incident shouldn’t have overshadowed her perception/recollection of whether Cloud was at Nibelheim because it was not all trauma the whole time and her recollection of her feelings would have also been an indicator because they should be strong reactions to him being/not being present.
I think Tifa, like Cloud, has a weak sense of self (she seems to base her identity on her external relationships) and sadly they both reinforced a false feedback loop. Cloud wanted to impress Tifa as kids and his way of doing that was to become a Soldier and he seemed to have no other aspirations. Tifa was the popular girl but kept losing friends as they moved away (causing her to lose her sense of self) so she put hope in a continued connection with Cloud when he said he was leaving and in his goal to become a Soldier through their promise. This is when the Ultimanias say her adoration for him grew (during the lifestream sequence in the OG, Cloud says he thought Tifa would never come to the well where the promise occurred because he thought Tifa hated him and Tifa later says she thought about Cloud a lot after he left). I think her need to have Cloud around doubled after the incident as the sole connection to her past but the only thing they had in common at the time they reunited in Midgar was the Soldier promise (Tifa didn't know that Cloud was actually there during the incident at that time so it’s not a mutual commonality).
I think the promise for Tifa signified stability, a positive connection to the past, and the prospect of being saved should another traumatic event like Nibelheim occur so she was accepting of Cloud’s Soldier persona because she didn’t really know him well despite not realizing it on her part when they met in Midgar. Once Cloud recounts things in Kalm, she doesn’t want to think about the discrepancy/push him on it due to the avoidance and rosy retrospection you mentioned. But it was also likely a very emotional moment for Tifa to learn that he was also a survivor of the incident and could relate to her trauma, thus her need to ‘not stir the pot’ so as not to possibly push him away. Whereas for Cloud, the promise represents his failure and weakness because he failed to become a Soldier and to save Tifa in Nibelheim. Upon seeing Tifa in Midgar, Cloud constructed himself (with the influence of his already tangled memories and the mind-altering experimentation he had undergone) to be the Soldier they both fantasized him to be which also helped him minimize and avoid his shame for his perceived failures while at the same time having ‘common ground’ with Tifa.
Thank you for the detailed feedback, it was well written and I enjoyed reading another perspective!
I think there might of been some confusion with my analysis, perhaps I presented it poorly. The periphal details that I believe were lost refer to the details the details of little importance to Tifa, such as Zack.
You are correct the statement that not all of Tifa's memories of Nibelheim were impacted. Tifa does have some recollection of the incident but also suffers from memory distrust syndrome. As you suggested, Tifa has a weak sense of self and research shows hat those have a weak sense of self are more prone to memory distrust syndrome due to being more prone to suggestibility. You were right on the mark with that.
So my argument essentially boils down to Tifa rembering some events of Nibelheim but being unsure of her memory due to her fading consciousness, memory distrust and suggestibility. This paired with forgetting key periphal details made her unsure if her memories were 100% true.
You are spot on with Cloud and Tifa having an emotional link and Tifa's hesitation to push him away.
This was a very interesting read and a great analysis! Thanks again for sharing your perspective.
Brilliant video this. I love digging into the psychology behind the characters. Can't wait to watch your future videos
amazing video! i've forever held those things as the reasons why tifa never said the truth, and there's so much layered trauma in her psyche that even those reasons have more things to peel apart. thanks for this little essay!
In remake they show what Cloud does whenever he's confronted with the truth: He recognised one of the enforcer, that recognised him aswell. His response was to run and refuse to acknowledge it.
Heavily implying he would have done the same had Tifa dug to deep. Not to mention that Sephiroth made him pick a fight with her in Kalm just as she obviously was going to attempt to bring up the truth to him.
Great use of real world examples to illustrate what’s going on with these characters! Something else to explore might be why Reeve continues to work through Cait Sith rather than joining the party in person.
Another thing that would be interesting is why Zidane doesn’t remember his past in Ff9. This plot point is similar to rue’s in Threads of Fate and Goku’s in Dragonball/Dragonball Z.
Those are great ideas! I haven't played 9 myself but always been meaning to. That idea might just be the extra incentive I need to get it done. Thanks again for the feed back!
i've been watching your psychological videos about ff7 for hours now, i've played this back on 1998, saw a LOT of theories and stuff about the game characters through the years, but these videos of you... jesus mary and joseph! all of it (ff7 events) makes so much sense now! you are a genius! thank you! : D
Very interesting! I would add that Tifa was literally in a coma for a month after Nibelheim and that she and Cloud were close as little kids, it was after her mom died that they became more distant, due to her father's dislike of him. Those are factors as well I think.
Actually in Lifestream sequence scene, Tifa remembers that the day her mom died was the first time ever Cloud came to her room. And then she remembers even though they were neighbours she didn't knew him that well. Which means they were not friends before her mom died. And her father blaming him for her fall from Mount nibel has nothing to do with them becoming distant.
@@sudeepkamble1253 Tifa does say that in the Lifestream sequence, but it's also stated in Trace of Two Pasts that when Cloud and Tifa were younger, they used to play together a lot and Tifa's mother complimented him to Tifa and made her blush while Brian scowled. It's likely that Brian didn't allow any boys into Tifa's room and he was just too distracted by the funeral on that day.
Another thing that Trace of Two Pasts reveals is that Tifa was in a coma after the Mount Nibel incident, and that the other boys laid all the blame on Cloud, and Cloud agreed, taking all the blame on himself in an attempt to protect Tifa. Due to her head injury and the falling coma, Tifa has no memory of that day but knows Cloud well enough to know that that doesn't sound like him, but since even Cloud claims he was responsible, she has nothing to back up her feelings. I feel that also lays the groundwork for her doubting her own memories.
@@sudeepkamble1253 Isn't that a line from the OG a bad translation anyway? Cloud actually doesn't come into her room in that scene, so saying that was the first time he came into her room doesn't make sense. Not to mention the OG is full of bad translations.
But definitely Trace of Two Pasts is more reliable, since it's come out more recently.
@@lluviathewolfgirl That LS sequence line from OG was accurate translation. Tifa also says "Now that you mentioned, I don't recall you ever being in my room."
And, in the new novel, even though Tifa thinks that the reason Cloud became distant from her has something to do with that day her mom died, she also recalls that he had stopped talking to her since way before that and she don't remember why! This only confirms her confused memories.
Thank you! I always wondered this! Great video
Hey, thank you I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
i cant wait to see our main man cloud break down and how they will handle it graphically. it was one of the most interesting things in the original and i had no idea it happened til a few years ago
I just randomly found this video and sincerely, it is a CRIME that this channel has fewer than 50 subs!
Thank you for the support! Humbled by the feedback and appreciate you all
In FF7 Rebirth, after the flashbacks in Kalm, Tifa tells Aerith that Cloud was never in Neibelheim during the flashbacks. Or so I thought.
And she doubts herself because Aerith makes the point of mentioning the whispers took memories from her and Red, so Tifa then quietly says "maybe that's why".
Makes so much sense! Thanks for the lesson :)
Great video
Thank you very much for this!
Wow, jet another deep lore of my beloved game character . Can You make a video of.... Sephiroth psychoanalysis ? 😉😀❤👍👍👋
Hey thanks for your comment and support! Sephiroth is definitely on my list of characters I want to analyze so I'll definitely be getting around to him at some point!
Tifa want to Cloud's real story not the mad up story. We see in chapter 3 tifa was asking cloud after you left the village she meant story in midgar
I think she was trying to protect him if she had told him the truth. It would have made things bad, but I think she Should have told them.
I really like to see a video about Sephiroth.
I'm working on a video of him right now. Please check it out when it drops!
She didn't lie, she just stay quiet, because she remember the same things Cloud narrate only that Cloud was not around in her memories, only that he was! but she didn't know...
It was later said in the game that Jenova and Mako poisoning had a effect on the brain to make people believe things that were not real, and also influence those around them, like Cloud believing he was Zack and Sefirot believing Jenova was his mother and willingly finish what she came here to do as the calamity from the sky like the Cetra call her. Tifa knew Cloud was not who he claim to be from the start but wanted to believe it and Jenova had it easy to influence her thoughts once she was in close proximity to him (there is even a scene in the game when Cloud meet Tifa in Sector seven slums for the first time and we see she was being influence by Jenova to believe Cloud) Tifa was the one who help Cloud recall who he truly was later on after he and she fell into the life-stream, i think this only was possible after Cloud gave the black materia to Sephirot as one of his "clones" because Jenova didn't keep him under her influence.
Lies of omission are still lies.
@@HenshinFanatic Tifa was under Jenova's coercion to keep quiet. She was physically unable to say anything.
@@Fugazity That's not true about her being physically unable to say anything. In the lifestream sequence Tifa says: "I've been hiding it for some time, afraid that if I told you... something terrible might happen. But, I'm not going to hide anything anymore. You weren't here. Cloud did not come to Nibelheim five years ago." Obviously Tifa didn't know he was there at that point in the story (it's revealed to her shortly after) but she hid her recollection from Cloud after he recounted his version in Kalm to Avalanche and Tifa admits as much.
@@xfairfaeriex Fear is a powerful inhibitor.
@Lau_chyan Did you play the original game? for what you say, i doubt it...
TL/DR
Don't blame that on Tifa, he was mental broken the minute he got mako poisoning, Jenova was the one who recover him form that state so to become her puppet.
Once he serve her purpose (give the black materia to Sephirot) jenova dispose of him which make him reverse to his original mako poisoning mind break state. In any case was Tifa who took him out that state. Tifa was also influenced by jenova to keep quiet.
I played the original game right back in 1997. And I never understand why people criticized Tifa for not telling the truth until late of the game. Seriously I may have done the same if I were her in that situation.
It's easy to criticize someone's decision or view, especially if that is a fictional character. However, if we were in the shoes of that person/character, what people disagree may actually make a lot of sense, even though we may still disagree with their judgement or actions.
I think a lot of this is relevant, but it's also important to remember that it's a game and a fictional story populated with fictional characters. There are limits to which real psychology can explain the characters' behaviors and mental states throughout the story, because none of them are subject to real causality.
Around 4:05 you start to say that Tifa isn't sure of her own memories after being presented with Cloud's messed up narrative, but that's not it at all. She explains her reasoning clearly in OG7, when she says she knew there were things about him that seemed off, things he shouldn't have known that he did, things he should know that he didn't, that his recollection was different from her memory of what really happened 5 years ago. She didn't know what to make of it, she was confused, and didn't know how to confront it. She had lost so much already, and one day out of the blue appeared a long-lost piece of her past. She was afraid to lose him again, so rather than reacting impulsively to the inconsistencies, she just kept telling herself that if she gave it time, she'd figure it out or it would work itself out. She does say something along the lines of "I'm just not sure of myself," but that's not the same as saying "I don't trust my own memories," it's instead perfectly in-line with the rest of the narrative of the game saying that she wasn't confident in how to handle the situation, she was afraid of making a mistake and losing someone.
So she was avoiding the problem deliberately & hopefully. This FF7 scenario was not a case of Tifa distrusting her own memories or being uncertain because Cloud told the story differently. She knew very well that his telling was incorrect, she just didn't know how to deal with it.
You see this playing out in Rebirth frequently as she tests him with questions to see if he's the real deal, if he really remembers the same Nibelheim that she remembers. He even eventually starts to recognize that they're tests. It may be easy to confuse what is actually her gentle and somewhat insecure approach, with an insecurity about herself and her own memories, but that's not the same, and it's not what's happening here in FF7.
Tifa didn't forget Zack, not even a tiny bit. Her denial about that in OG7 when the party meet's Zack's parents in Gongaga is paper-thin. When they revisit Cloud's memories in the lifestream, she encourages him to remember who Zack was, and as he remembers, she affirms it. She knew it was Zack all along. She didn't want Sephiroth to show the photo that was taken because she knew Zack was going to be in it, not Cloud.
It is true that she's puzzled by why Cloud knows so much about things he shouldn't, but this doesn't add up to mistrust in her own memories, it adds up to mystery and confusion about Cloud, and an uncertainty on her part about what to do in response to that. Her decision not to confront it was about putting off the problem and trying to keep the peace, out of fear of losing someone thought long-gone that she'd only kind of recently gotten back.
The bit in OG7 where she says her childhood memories weren't all made up is her response to Sephiroth's claim that none of it was her fault, that Jenova created her memories during the fabrication of Cloud. That's not about memory distrust syndrome, again, sometimes you have to see the story before you rather than the annals of psychology arcana that might be an explainer for real people in a similar situation. The game's story wasn't written by a psychologist, and the characters aren't real, so real psychology applies only to the limited extent to which the authors are aware of the principles and bake it in. That is to say, in fairly basic, layman-relatable ways.
7:00 is full of very similar kinds of unwarranted assumptions too. Yeah, it provides a rationale for its conclusions, but the rationale is loaded by presumptions that are not identified as presumptions (e.g. attacking Sephiroth after he killed her father and burned her town is a response that perhaps needs no explanation, but the author presumes it as evidence of avoiding thinking, even though she's thinking about it and speaking aloud about it the entire time), so it lends itself to unjustified confidence in the statements and conclusions.
The avoidance thing does finally touch on a legitimate aspect of this whole thing, which was explicitly stated in the OG, but that doesn't have to be established by building up an image of her as an avoidant character, an argument largely predicated on unwarranted assumptions; not every behavior has to be part of a larger pattern of behavior, they can also be circumstantial; So instead, apply Occam's razor - it's a really weird situation to be in, she's never been in a situation like it or heard of anything like it, and she doesn't understand and can't explain what's going on. She's not sure what the consequences will be if she confronts it directly. It's reasonable to be reluctant to react, when you're presented with the bizarre. So she waits it out, hoping that time will provide an answer.
the funny thing is, i dont think even the developers dove this deeply when they were coming up with the scenarios lol, it seems more like coincidence and speculation from fans. who really knows
I see what you did there with the thumbnail 👀
Nice video. The only thing I'd push back on is the Rebirth trailer. Traces of Two Pasts shows Tifa telling the team that what Cloud said happen is exactly what happened. If she had pushed back with Cloud in Kalm, I don't necessarily see her saying that unless they had a private convo about it. And it doesn't make sense to me that Cloud would accuse Tifa of being an imposter that early. He has no idea about Jenova's abilities, puppets, all that stuff at this point so it would be a weird thing for Cloud or Tifa to jump to the conclusion that she isn't real so early on.
That dialogue makes more sense to me in Northern Crater when Sephiroth is saying his version of the Nibelheim incident and trying to convince Cloud that he and/or she aren't real. Remember Sephiroth impersonates Tifa around that time as well, so maybe he's trying to convince Cloud that she's really not who she says she is.
But anyway great video, very interesting stuff and I love how you break down the psychology!
Hey thank you for your insight! I didn't think of that. I figured it might have been an extension of the kalm scene where Tifa pulls Cloud aside and asks how injured she was. But youve made excellent points in your post and I can definitely see it being at the Crater as well!
I think the line still holds in showing Tifa's distrust in her memory and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out in Rebirth.
Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks again for your comment!
@@vgology Oh I definitely agree that Tifa is unsure of her own memories. Have you read Traces of Two Pasts? Definitely worth reading through if you haven't, I can send you the translated book.
But yeah great video, definitely got me thinking and I love how you layer psychology into it. Cloud's mental illness is what really drove me to his character as a kid, his emotional and mental struggles. Always found that fascinating and I love Tifa so nice to see someone give this perspective! Great video.
@@StygianStilettosGamer That would be great! I haven't been able to read the translated copy. Thanks! You can try posting here in the comments, hopefully youtube doesn't remove it. You can also send it to the email listed on my channel. Thanks again!
Hmmm... Interesting 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
My biggest beef with FF7 is the seeming insistence of Square that the damaged relationship between Cloud and Tifa is not only good but should be encouraged. In my own experience, a relationship scarred by tragedy (especially of this particular magnitude) tends to end up toxic because, instead of healing from the tragedy, the two end up feeding into each others' hurt and end up codependent.
It's one of the reasons why I like Tifa's interactions with Marlene so much in AC and Remake, because those seem to be the few times she's genuinely happy and fulfilled - she's experiencing a present that isn't tainted by her past.
Of course, I'm no psychologist, so take it with a grain of salt.
@Lau_chyan Hm, I'll have to look that interview up. I'd definitely be curious to get his take.
@Lau_chyan Actually, Nomura says that Cloud and Tifa were happy after the events of OG, what triggered Cloud's trauma again after 2 years, in Advent Children, is:
1- Elmyra telling Cloud to deliver flowers in Aerith's church, since Cloud hasn't visited it since the end of OG, so his feelings of guilt start to haunt him again.
2- him thinking he didn't deserve a happy life with Tifa and the kids.
Nomura said that the more Cloud feels happy with his family and the more he's scared to lose them, because of he still thinks he's not gonna be able to protect them and that he's gonna be the reason of their sufference if he stays beside them, so he leaves... trying to bare everything by himself, avoiding everyone and trying to find a cure for his and Denzel's Geostigma.
Even if thats the case in a real life(which by the way nothing is absolute in human behaviour and there are case and cases), in this fantasy game that a bond between two persons can survive and overcome tragedy doesn't sound too unrealistic, it has a more intimate taste of victory. The thing is, and this is my personal view, the writers didn't portrayed this very well at the end of AC, thats why I don't like its end very much and I think it needs not to be the end of the story.
Yes it was glorious
Keep the smart tone jokes their funny
I just want good things for Cloud and especially Tifa. Is that so wrong? ;_;
Cloud: i took your orthopedi-
Tifa: no you didn't! Or... Did you?... Omg you.... You took it. YES GUYS HE TOOK IT
Lol love the pun
I believe one of the reason why Tifa didn't confront Cloud with the truth is because she herself was afraid of finding out the truth. Cloud had promised her that once he becomes a soldier he will return to her and rescue her from her binds. That means her "childhood dream" had partially came true. But if she finds out Cloud is not Cloud, then her dream will come to an end. She was a afraid of this.
And most importantly, she was afraid that she may find out that Cloud is a completely different person than how she always imagined him. Which ultimately came to be true.
In a way, Tifa too, was living in an illusion. The proof of this is the "date scene" with her. Despite of knowing that there is something seriously wrong with Cloud, right from the beginning, instead of trying to fix him, she tries to confess her love to the "Fake Cloud", And the fake Cloud is exactly like how she always dreamt/fantasized about him.
Why is this comment about Tifa totally the opposite of how her character actually is?
Tifa's dream was for her to stay next to Cloud and support him.
That's why she made him promise he would have come back to save her. She didn't really want him to save her, she just wanted to make him promise he would have come back to her to stay by her side.
Because she loves him, she wouldn't be that selfish to hide things from Cloud just for that reason, which also doesn't make sense, since she is actually the one who ends up saving him and since she trained in martial arts, just so that she could handle herself and could have protected her loved ones (thinking about showing off to Cloud and to make him proud of her for being independent.. even in Remake she refuses his help when she's going to audition at Corneo's mansion, so if it was as you said she would convince Cloud to be her savior, but that is not what Tifa wants, because she prefers to have Cloud being safe, even if she has to be in trouble all alone).
Tifa cares more about Cloud than about herself... she was afraid to tell him because first, her memories of the incident were blurry, second, because Cloud's story didn't add up with hers and it made her doubt about her own remaining memories too, third, because she didn't want Cloud to have a panic attack or a breakdown after recalling traumatic experiences (that Cloud is trying to shut down, exactly to protect himself) and fourth, because she didn't know how to handle the situation and how to help Cloud, being traumatized and doubtful herself (while she also had to think about the Planet and about protecting/keeping all her friends safe)
Also, it's a trait of Tifa's character to love Cloud for who he really is, she has loved him since they were children.
In Remake she also mentions how he's changed, she even told him he was scaring her when he wanted to kill Johnny, because his real self was kind and he would have never done that. She also mentioned how his eyes changed, since she remembers they were full of innocence, enthusiasm and hope, when he was a child, while now she notices they are cold and distant.
The way some people project Aerith's character features onto Tifa...
Since Aerith is the actual one who is in an illusion, liking fake Cloud because he reminds her of her first love and not knowing who he is for real, while Tifa tries so hard to bring the real Cloud back (that's literally one of the most famous things about Tifa's character...helping Cloud taking back his real self in the Lifestream).
So I don't know where you got that description from, but other than the fact that it makes her sound like a person she isn't, it's also all the opposite of how Tifa treats and behaves towards Cloud.
Maybe, I wasn't able to explain what I actually wanted to say. What I really wanted to say in my previous comment was, everything I said about Tifa, was about her subconscious feelings/ thoughts. Just like Cloud, Tifa too, has "inner conflict".
Let me explain...
Its true that the grown-up Tifa is mature and had already realised that it was childish of her to have asked Cloud to make that promise when they were kids. But despite of that, subconsciously, OR, a part of her mind, is still stuck in that fantasy. "This part of her" still fancies the thought of being rescued by her hero. (In OG, it was heavily implied that Tifa's idea of asking Cloud to make that promise had originated from Tifa's childhood fantasy about "heroes". In Og Promise scene she says :- "I want to experience this atleast once in my life".)
Also, subconsciously, she knows that she didn't know Cloud that well and they were never "close childhood friends".
In the Remake also, there are several evidences. One example:-
1- In a scene from Remake she tells Cloud that she feels trapped. M-Ultimania says that Tifa was disappointed here that Cloud didn't remembered their promise.
2-Later in another scene, Cloud, after remembering their Promise, tells her that he remembers it and if she wants to talk he will listen. Here, Tifa' reaction was....."Ehh... this is NOT what I had in mind when I put that on you, back then."
If you compare both these scenes, Tifa's reaction/feelings in both scenes are completely CONTRADICTORY to each other.
There are actually more evidences like this in the Remake
So whole point is to say, apart from the reason that Tifa was worried about Cloud's mental health, all of her inner conflicts, are also an IMPORTANT reason why she lied the whole time.
@@sudeepkamble1253 She never thought that them making that promise was childish and she never regretted it.
She hung onto that promise until the end and that's how she can always stay next to him and save him from Sephiroth and Jenova's control.
It was never a childish promise for them. It's what makes Cloud and Tifa survive and hang on to their hopes, it's what makes them believe in each other despite everything that happens around them.
The localization says "I want to experience it at least once", but in Japanese Tifa is asking Cloud if he would want to experience being a hero once. The question is referred to him.
The localization failed twice to convey the meaning, but it's not surprising, since there have been many errors in translation since OG.
And again, Tifa never fantasized about Cloud being her savior. The promise was an excuse to stay next to him and during the game, it becomes a vow on her part to protect Cloud instead and to do everything she can to help him.
About their closeness, Nojima, in the novel called "Traces Of Two Pasts", says that Tifa and Cloud used to play together and used to be close when they were kids. They only drifted apart after Tifa's mother passed away and both Tifa and Cloud fell from mount Nibel.
Tifa is sad that Cloud didn't get her hint, but then he finally remembered, as the Ultimania says, "unprompted" and when he told her about it, she said that Cloud saving her was not what she had in mind when making that promise...since as I said before the reason is that she wanted to keep him close (Cloud is the one instead who lives into this fantasy, so that he can protect Tifa and be her hero for her).
Her inner conflicts are her fears, that Cloud would fall sick once she tells him what she knows, her doubts about her own memories, after her version of the Nibelheim incident seemed different from Cloud's.
Tifa never lied... she concealed and that's different. Her reasons for doing that were still purely out of love and care.
Tifa feared she would have lost real Cloud (the one that she has loved since childhood) and in Remake she feared he became a killing machine without feelings, while what she wanted for him was just to be happy, hopeful, to take back the innocence he lost.
Because Tifa doesn't want fake Cloud, she doesn't want Cloud to suffer, she doesn't want him to be completely detached from himself and from the people who love him.
She doesn't want him to fake someone he is not, because she has always loved him and wanted him for who he really is.
The game guides, Nojima and the game itself, say that Tifa is the only one who always stays beside Cloud, the only one who knows his true self and the only one who believed in him, despite him not believing in himself. She's the one who helped him accept himself in all his flaws and qualities, she is his rock, there to be strong for him when he's weak and helpless.
As I said, the way you got to those conclusions and your view of Tifa are far from how her character really is and I think you should inform yourself better on the matter before putting out your opinions.
It would be especially good if you could read the game guides (of both OG and Remake) and the book about Aerith and Tifa's backgrounds.
It would be amazing if you could possibly refrain from twisting Tifa's character, making her seem like some selfish person that she never was, in a comment section that is trying to make an opinion of her, based on facts and not suppositions.
@@laurajanco2i You are telling me that my opinions are based on supposition and not facts, but you don't look any different to me. For me, your "facts" are still, just "your personal OPINIONS".
1 - You pointed out the mistranslation. But you didn't provided translation of the full dialogue - In Og Tifa says-- "If I am ever in trouble, my hero will come and rescue me."
After this line, IF she is asking Cloud -- "Do you wants to experience being a hero once?". If you take into account the context of the entire dialogue, it still points out towards HER desire of "being saved by her hero". Bcoz it's her idea, coming out of her imaginations. Which means its still heavily implies her "childhood fantasy".
If you disagree, then.... Do you know what's the original japnese version of the line -- "If I am ever in trouble, my hero will come and rescue me."??
Otherwise, what you are saying is, Its not a childhood fantasy but instead the kid Tifa is deliberately trying to bind/trap Cloud in an obligation bcoz she wants to be with him, bcoz she loves him.
Wow!! What a take. And you think this doesn't makes her look selfish?
Anyways, I don't agree with you that Tifa asks Cloud to make that promise bcoz she always wants to be with him. I guess, your take is based on one point mentioned in "Traces of 2 pasts" where it says "She fell in love with Cloud, which is the kind of love where she wants to be with him." ??
But I think in "Traces" its clearly implied that she comes to this realisation right AFTER the Promise scene.
3 - In "Traces" its true that it's mentioned that T&C used to play together a lot when they were much younger and they use to go back and forth in their houses. But what "Traces" is not telling us is that the stories of Tifa's past we got to know from Traces, also contains parts of Tifa's confused memories. For example:-
Og LS sequence dialogues:-- Tifa :- "Now that u mentioned, I don't recall you ever being in my room".
Cloud :- "I use to look in your room only from outside.".
These LS sequence dialogues doesn't align with whats mentioned in Traces that they use to go back and forth in their houses.
4 - In the Remake scene, you are saying she is only giving a "hint" to Cloud to remember the promise? If you remember in that scene, Tifa was Really Upset and was really feeling like she's "Trapped". At that point, she was not really in the minset to test Cloud's memories by giving him hints and faking that she feels trapped.
You said I am twisting Tifa's character? The way I see it, your interpretation of Tifa makes her look selfish right from her childhood.
@@sudeepkamble1253 I didn't give you any opinion. I literally stated what's in the games, the Ultimanias and the books.
I'm describing Tifa the way she is described by SE, while you're literally trying to make of her someone that she isn't and saying she hid things from Cloud because of her selfish desires.
Tifa even hates Soldier, so she wouldn't want Cloud just because of that.
Also...from your latter comment, it really shows how much you dislike Tifa, since those who know her and love her would never call her selfish.
Tifa said that she's "trapped (in a pinch)", that's the hint, she said that because that's what she told him the day of the promise...
She was upset because she just had a discussion with Avalanche. Nothing to do with Cloud and her talk with him...
Be more inventive the next time you make a take, maybe it will sound more convincing.
Tifa in the promise says the same thing she says in Remake:
"make a promise, when you're famous, if I'm trapped (in a pinch), you'll come and rescue me"
"don't you want to experience once to appear and help me?",
Cloud: "all right, I promise"
Here there's also a thing called consent and mutuality.
And no, she didn't want to "tie Cloud down", she just wanted to spend more time with him, the same way you want to do with someone you love.
Nothing different from what Aerith says to Zack, before he goes on a mission and eventually dies...
Cloud joined Shinra because he wanted to impress Tifa and never told her his motivations.
As you said, they were children, they are also introverted and cannot express their feelings.
If Cloud didn't want to do it he could have just said "no"... but he was the one who asked her out and he also was the one who was trying to impress her.
Call Tifa selfish how you want, but Cloud felt fulfilled that night.
She would have been proud for his success and for all the time she spent in Nibelheim she watched the news everyday to see if there were news about him. When Zack got to Nibelheim with Cloud and Sephiroth, Tifa was there asking everyone for Cloud's whereabouts.
She has been afraid for all the time that he would be gone for good because in Soldier he could also lose his life, but she never gave up hoping.
She waited for his return for seven years, always being loyal to her love for him, rejecting everyone who used to court her, because she just had Cloud in her heart.
Is this her being selfish to you?
People, including the developers, always praise Tifa because of her selflessness and her care, but what do you do?
Act as if she was the villain in Cloud's life...if you think that's credible, then suit yourself, but stop commenting stuff like this. It's insulting to people's intelligence.
You also said:
"Cloud :- "I use to look in your room only from outside."
These LS sequence dialogues doesn't align with whats mentioned in Traces that they use to go back and forth in their houses."
1- this is after Tifa's mother died, if you played the game you would see Tifa crying in her house while Cloud is outside of her window trying to see what's up with her.
2- are you saying Nojima doesn't know his own story?
3- ToTP doesn't state they used to go back and forth from their houses. They used to play outside, since there was never any talk with their parents and Tifa's father didn't want guys to be next to her or at home.
What is an opinion? Me describing how much Tifa did for Cloud in the game until the end in the Lifestream, or you suggesting that her intentions towards Cloud were selfish?
In my case, I know the plot, in your case, it seems like you're trying to make Tifa pass for someone who she isn't and anyone who has played will know that what I'm saying is 100% what they can see in the story.
You can stop here, because I don't tolerate people who talk shit about Tifa, without even knowing her.
You call her selfish? Your problem...
The developers knew what they were doing when they wrote her story and designed her and they definitely didn't want for people to have negative opinions on their characters, as long as they didn't deserve it.
I'm tired of the Tifa hate and mischaracterization...
The mistakes made in this gameplay...
She got 2 big secrets I’m tryna find out nahwhatimsayin
Great video