Blazingly FAST 25 gigabit Over Network! - Synology 3400d Review ft. Kioxia PM7 SAS SSDs
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- Опубліковано 3 кві 2024
- Grab hold your wallets, and maybe lock'em down cause you'll be wanting to spend it after watching this video!
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Music: "Earth Bound" by Slynk
Edited by Autumn - Наука та технологія
Took CCNA classes in community college (4 semesters of it) as electives for my gen ed. I now have two mellanox switches. 1 managed 32 port 40g qsfp and one 8 port 40g qsfp. PITA to find the firmware to get the modules connecting lol
If you're talking about the Mellanox VPI switches that default to Infiniband, there are guides out there to upgrade to ethernet capability, but after mucking around with it for a while I just bought a "license" from a guy on ebay. It was under $50 and to me it was worth it to avoid the headache. I've been using my SX6036 for a couple of years now with zero problems.
Edit: I saw a post that now seems to have been deleted talking about the actual QSFP modules. I can't speak for all of the Mellanox switches, but mine is very accommodating as far as brands go. I'm using QSFP DAC cables in my rack instead of module&fiber, but same compatibility should apply. I've used "generic" branded cables, Mellanox, Dell and I believe I have some Cisco that worked as well. Basically all the ones I've tried have worked, but it's always good to start with something on the HCL to eliminate the unknowns when you're troubleshooting.
4:15 "8GBps or.... (mentally does 8*8) 32Gbps"... errr haha
Yes, which would be 64, not 32. 😂
@@Derek.Iverson you'll only get about 40 anyways because of overhead on each lane.
@@Derek.Iverson Off by less than a power of ten, basically correct 😀
@@kevinerbs2778 I find that hard to believe. Can you back that up with sources?
Here's why I doubt your statement:
USB 3.x Gen 1 → 8/10 bits available for data; 2/10 bits reserved for protocol; 20% overhead
USB 3.x Gen 2 → 128/132 bits available for data; 4/132 bits reserved for protocol; ≈3% overhead
According to your statement, "you'll only get about 40 anyways because of overhead on each lane":
40 ÷ 64 = 0.625 = 5/8
-PCIe Gen 4¹ → 5/8 bits available for data; 3/8 bits reserved for protocol; 37.5% overhead-
I had no idea USB Gen 2 had so little overhead compared to PCIe Gen 4. Right? Why use PCIe Gen 4 instead of USB Gen 2? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Here's the real overhead:
PCIe Gen 4¹ → 128/130 bits available for data; 2/130 bits reserved for protocol; 1.54% overhead
Here's my _correction_ of your statement: "you'll only get [63] anyways because of overhead on each lane."
btw- You make it sound like the overhead compounds with each lane. It doesn't. Even if it did, 1.0154⁸ - 1 = 13% (not 37.5%).
128 ÷ 130 = 98.46% = (128×number_of_lanes) ÷ (130×number_of_lanes) → the number_of_lanes cancel out
¹ According to *Rambus* :
*The PCI Express (PCIe) 4.0 protocol has some encoding overhead, but it's 98.46% efficient, resulting in an actual bandwidth of 63 GB/s. This is due to the 128b/130b encoding scheme, which has an overhead penalty of less than 2%.*
@nster3 I can't believe they didn't pin or heart your comment. Can you? :-)
Honey.... I need a bigger stack of Benjamins, there's another piece of tech calling my name. 😂
I'm totally calling my boss tomorrow. Before you ask, my boss is not my wife (even if it feels that way sometimes!) ;)
That 25Gb switch shortage on the second hand market seems to be a very recent thing, I've been upgrading my network infrastructure for the past year and you could find a bunch 25Gb switches around the 800 euro/usd mark (i forget which i checked at the time), and for the past few months all of those switches have been bought and there has been a lack of new switches coming in at that price point. Let's hope some large datacentre somewhere upgrades to 56Gb as that seems to slowly be becoming a thing.
It was nice to hear you include some information about Hyper-V and iSCSI.
Great report , in terms of of supervisor performance, have tested proxmox in contrast w/VMW future plans ? It might be an opportunity to see what are the alternatives for an upcoming video, especially in context of using this type of gear.
This model of Synology kinda leans towards Dell PowerScale type of use case, granted not in same level of use cases or price range.
The other Tailscale thing that doesn’t work on Synology is “accept-routes” if you’re doing advanced LAN subnet linking via another device. The Synology Tailscale client can’t do it. Shrug.
5:00 This topic of NVME dual pathing got me thinking about the Dell PowerStore T line which does Active/Active NVME storage. I wonder how they are communicating with all the NVME drives from both nodes.
9:57 screen recording scrolling flicker. I'd bet money you're on Wayland 😂
It's actually finally getting fixed! Explicit sync has been merged on most DE's. Just need the various distros to push out the updates
@@REALfreaky what about all of the flickering in all the applications, hover tooltips?
I just upgraded to a bonded 2x10Gbps Intel controller between my workstation and my server. I've tried hard with a lot of configurations, but I can't get anything over 16gbps between my systems (RAM disk to RAM disk). I'm using 5000 series AMD CPUs between each, so it's modern hardware. Who knows? I couldn't saturate 16Gbps if I wanted either ,so meh.
Man, I just upgraded my network to 10GB... 💸💸
Time for some Connectx-4's! :D
Someone from the local hackerspace found 40 and 100 Gbps QSFP "pluggables" for $10 and $12 respectively at a local electronics (literal) market, just last weekend. No idea what truck those fell off, but hey!
You know what you have to do..
I thought it was magic just replacing one of my old 8 port 1 GbE switches with an 8 port 2.5 GbE switch.
Still deciding on getting a 5 Gb or 10 Gb ethernet card. Or just getting a mobo that has 2.5 Gbit native.
Man Level1 videos have absolutely the best music - don't think we aren't noticing
Putting the NAS in nasty.
I actually wanted to grab one of these for some FC tests and labs to some Cisco MDS switches, maybe try some FCoE etc, just for cert and lan experience. Problem is the total noise, heat and power use for 4 switches (2 nexus, 2 MDS) starts to get insane for a home environment.
Either way, a lovely machine! Even having a nice HA LDAP box is totally worth it. But the noise....😂 I can't wait until these things advance to the point of 30 dBm or less!
Thanks for the review 👍
Man, I was already pretty happy with the old RS3617xs+ with 10Gb links and iSCSI mpio.... somehow I missed synology making dual-controller units.
Really nice video 👍
4:34 -- yes, SAS dual porting as distinct from SATA.
14:12 -- iSCSI ❤. However unless clustered, iSCSI direct to a workstation in most homelabs is limited to that single workstation for practical purposes. With clustered clients using iSCSI, SAN comes to mind. Worth the home experimentation and *fun* though.
Kindest regards, neighbours and friends.
Thx 4 being there 😊
Hey wendell, you said want to post video about wrx90e / north XL build..im still waiting for it..
Is there a NAS with the hot-pluggable capabilities on which I can use open-source software?
As always enjoyed the video! Little sad the 3020 couldn't hold its own against it, love those boxes. I guess ultimately its held back by the lower SKU CPU and limited memory bandwidth to differentiate it from its peers and lower the price point.
A bit of an off-topic: is there any way to run a vdi with windows on a proxmox server, preferably with free solutions?
Ahh I wish I could get my hands on one of those. For a variety of reasons, we use a much slower model and spinning drives. At least the model finally has a 10G interface now. I like DSM.
Played with a Synology DS920 that a consultant spec'd but never used... It kept reaching out to Turkey, so I unplugged it from my network.
Would a connect x4 work in with 4 pcie lanes (i only need 1 port to work at full speed)
I bought a SAS HDD by accident, bc it was such a good price. But I'm looking to put it into an externally powered enclosure to backup my pc periodically, a do-it-yourself external hdd backup product.
However, I cannot find an enclosure that is under $100 that will work with SAS interface, then output to SATA or USB 3.0. Any suggestions?
Little different than the ugreen crap everyone else is shilling this week.
God I hate Ugreen so much
Total garby
The non "apple channel" reviews I've seen all call the ugreen mediocre at best. Which to be fair to the Apple people, they used to trash hardware with non-existent storage, so I can't really blame them for getting excited... 😅
@@KiraSlithugreen is somewhat known in the power brick, USB Cable and USB NIC sphere, but they're certainly unproven in the storage host market. Most of the channels I've watched have been optimistic about the future but realistic about their performance now and not ignoring faults, like the PCIe switching being suboptimal iirc.
@@IanBPPK I'm not saying the brand is bad, there's no need to get that defensive. Most of my USB3 extensions are ugreen, 2 of which have lasted me 5 years already. I'm just saying the NAS is mediocre, and a lot of the strong hype is coming from channels that don't really have any experience with good hardware.
@@KiraSlith Apple user here who never heard of ugreen before. My NASes are Synology. 🤔
@Level1Techs You failed to mention it's not active-active, it has some delays in failover. What were your results on vmware multi node cluster with HA/DRS when one path is down with ISCSI round robin enabled?
I have a UC3200 which is active/active but doesn’t run the normal synology os with all the normal apps, it’s only for storage. Mine is running back end storage for MS SQL high availability clustering with MPIO enabled, if you have less aware applications using the shared IP it took about 4 seconds for that to fail over on node failure in testing (physically unplugging the controller from the chassis as the fault)
Yeah I have a 1821+ and a 1621+ and neither have Synology drives in them. Same with the m.2 cache drives, 10GB NICs, and upgraded the RAM to 32GB and 16GB respectively with 3rd parties. The run (for well over 2 years) great!
13:40 another note about SMB MultiChannel - if you enable LACP/Port Aggregation on your NICs, SMB MultiChannel will be unavailable. Many people will opt for Aggregation over MultiChannel
Most of my network stuff is small and private, almost cozy. The equipment is still interesting just because of how far back in generations it's possible to go before the upgrades no longer help. Onboard 1GbE is fine for most of my HDD jobs but dual 10GbE SFP hits in all the right places and is a wonderful security against bad modems that kick everything off the network during an Internet outage. Nothing I have is new or durable enough to invest in anything more. Maybe the day I retire this Ryzen box.
Scsi makes so much sense for redundancy and reliability, makes sense why its used instead of sata and nvme.
Yo you should check out the UC3400 from Synology! Also need to make them come out with a 2.5" drive bay only version! imagine 24 drives in a HA 2u SAN that is crazy!
so I get that virtualizing a router is "forbidden," but I have not only that but a "forbidden" NAS on my proxmox box that I've had set up for quite some time, all on AMD on a Aorus X570 board... I also managed to get traffic shaping and failover set up on pfSense CE (virtually), as well as a Shinobi server running about 10 4k cameras.
am i doing it wrong?
Absolutely. There's dual 2.5Gbe micro pcs for like $140 that can likely handle your WAN connection with opnsense for 5 watts. I used to run a virtual router but only because the devices weren't up to par and dual 2.5Gbe
What is this meme at 9:52 that flashes on by lol
Good old Fischer Price!
meehhh can get my MT27500 ConnectX-3 or NetXtreme II BCM57800 (both 10 Gigabit) & a file manger to show 1.1GB/s... over 30m of copper!, sure it started at 3...what was the limit? HDD write?
some iperf tests would have been nice..anyhoo always nice to see a lvl1 tech vid
...but ACTUAL measured performance would have been welcomed when we are ment to be focused on the 25 part of it all....
Edit: NB... not one of the 14 thumbs down folks... can't wait for "links" with friends later 💋
Is NAS singular and plural like deer, or is it NASs or NAS's...
It's different than other NASAs?
Oh OK , How about application?
100GbE Intel Ethernet Network Adapter E810 CQDA2T maybe worth a look. FYI - you’d need about 46,451 bananas stacked on top of each other to reach the height of Mount Everest!
Just run the patch that adds the drives to the supported list, makes them all good again
For the scenario where you don't have the build in dual High Availability - don't you still need two identical Synology servers? Their documentation says this:
"Implementation of Synology High Availability requires two identical Synology servers to act as active and passive servers."
the two controllers in the SA3400D are considered identical servers, its high availablity in one box
@@user-pn5hl4es6b 21:01 I'm referring to this statement referring to where you can have two cabinets, one high performance and one with mechanical drives. I might have misunderstood, but it's only possible to do hyper backup and similar , for High Availability feature both devices must be identical
@@DanielWillen you are correct, HA needs identical devices. so identical ram, drives and NIC, this might have been wrong in the snipit in the video as a Synology HA requires the same type of drives.
you Do know that we mere mortals will only get near that stuff 20 years from now when it is sold on ebay for pennies on the bit coin... right....
Dat Nas
But Can It Run Crysis?
(plugs in 10/100 PCI card) "whats that metal plug thing on his ethernet cord?"
4:07 *Then you've got NVMe-which for PCIe Gen four is **_eight gigabytes per second._** Or (4-second pause) thirty-two gigabit.*
8 GB/s × 8 b(its)/B(yte) = 64 Gbps. But, PCIe Gen 4×4 ≈4 GB/s → 4 GB/s × 8 b(its)/B(yte) = 32 Gbps.
Did Wendell _miscalculate?_ Or (4-second pause) did Wendell _misspeak_ - as Wendell is prone to do? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Wendell is sure religious about Windows. Took him 17 seconds to start complaining. Mellanox ConnectX-4 25Gbe cards work great in all my Windows machines and my Mac Pro.
I'd rather have an iX Systems X10 or X20 for the price/spec ratio of this thing.
TLDR: This 20000€ server gives you 25 gigabit transfer speeds via network
Products: (1) Synology SA3400D (12) kioxia PM7-V SAS SSD
Nah, I still call it Plug And Pray...
You could run mcafee on your nas....don't do that.
Casually dropping 2-3 giga on the table for all to see .
NASty
And how much is this? $10k. Much better buying a dell rackmount and putting nvme in it, could probably afford 100gig. Synology software is good though!
Bloody Ubuntu in the background WHAT THE HELL
Spinning rust huh, well I’ve seen more rust on SSD than HDD internals
Until relatively recently magnetic media literally used micropatterned iron oxide as the magnetically active material.
1gbit here 😂😂😂😂😂😂
politics is the best form of Planned Non-Parenthood.
Who would pay $10k for that, what a joke 😂
Any "enterprise" pays this much for a fraggin' switch... 1 gig may be slightly cheaper in 2024, but even if, just slightly.
And if you consider this can be a highly available server of some unimportant stuff which used to live on an vmware cluster...
And even if you're not looking for a HA place to put your VMs in, it's cheap as potatoes where I'm from!
And it even has Xeons? No one ever got fired for buying Xeons!
This is the kind of thing that some companies (or, more precisely, employees like myself) enslaved by the Distinguished Architects are looking for... I know I'm looking for hardware that my Distinguished Architects would ummm... "certify". This Xeon-based small box sounds like a cheat code to super cheap iSCSI SAN, so we'd suddenly get a SAN in auxiliary locations (like colocation at a stock exchange, where we don't have SAN and the Distinguished Architects need months of convincing that 4 servers (with Xeons, of course) in a configuration able to pick up work within 1 minute is good enough "HA").
Stuff like this may just be a game changer for those fuckers with concrete inside their skulls. Believe me, it's CHEAP, too cheap to convince those morons that it can do anything reliably, not to mention anything they have on their checklists. But hey, it's Xeon, this actually heightens my chances!
Enterprise grade ... LOOOL. Never buy syno for any important enterprise level stuff. Home toy - with a hefty price tag. Best to keep the fingers away from syno.