Sacred and Desecrated Objects
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
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I had a good friend who turned her life over to God, and she brought my buddy and me dozens and dozens of cassettes of metal bands and such and told us to keep them, burn them, sell them, whatever we wanted to do with them. She said they were telling her to live her life in certain ways while God's word was telling her very different things, and she did not want them around her any longer. My bud and I weren't going to keep them, nor pass them on to others to be corrupted by them, so we torched them out back. The squealing of the plastics burning was eerie, but satisfying as well.
Recycling would also work.
I did the same thing 50 years ago but now I listen to the old songs on you tube.
When I was young (6th grade approx) we moved to a new home that when I would reach the top of the stairs I would get scared and feel like I had to run away from the master bedroom which was to the right at the top of the stairs. After a bit we found out that a witch had previously lived in the home with 5 other families at one time ( it was an old English Tudor home built back in the 1800’s and had 3 stories that were finished).
My parents, I found out later, felt the same thing as this was their bedroom and they had our pastor and church come and bless the house. He prayed in the bedroom and a demon left and went out of the master bedroom window..he said he saw it leave.
Well outside this window down in our courtyard, there was a lovely area that had a pond that I loved to take care of. I cleaned it yearly and had fish in it, etc. After this thing was cast out of the home I felt that it never left as in the center of the pond (left by the previous owners) was a fountain which was a Buddha statue and the water would go up into the statue and come out of the top of its hat. After the house cleaning nothing would survive in the pond and you could feel that it was different, unsettling when you got near it. We moved away so to this day I can’t say whatever happened to it but my mother told me that when we were leaving for the last time, she felt / saw the “thing” go back into the house.
What an interesting story
These things are not just symbols or representations. They are not just promises or examples. They are manifestations of God’s energies and His holiness on display in the physical world.
These things are at minimum reflections or echoes of God’s presence in that object or body (in the case of the remains of God’s holy saints). But God’s energies and presence is there. This is why this object heal the faithful or curse and kill the unworthy. All of it comes down to the essence energy distinction of God, which shapes Christology, which then shapes eschatology. If one does not properly understand the presence of God and His energies, one cannot but err in the other areas.
I had an experience nearly twenty years ago now that I just recently wrote a book about (I won't name my book because I'm not trying to advertise here) that completely changed my theology on this. I took care of a very sick friend who turned out to be demonically possessed. It brought on a violent haunting that lasted nearly two years. I never believed in Holy objects. I always thought it was a symbolic thing that would help activate a person's faith but I saw anointing oil, prayer cloths, and crosses have a powerful and even physical effect on this person. I actually was so amazed by what I saw that I did an experiment and prayed over the bottle of ketchup in the refrigerator while they slept one day and never told them. From that time on they wouldn't touch it and asked me to get a new bottle claiming that the old bottle was really scratchy now. I led this person to Christ and got them pastoral help as well but the haunting, though less intense, still continued. It finally ended when they told me about a comforter they owned and had kept rolled up in their closet. Every time they slept with it they would be bitten or scratched and they were now thinking that maybe it should be gotten rid of. I contacted someone online and asked what the best way to dispose of it might be and they offered for me to send it to them and they would do it for me. As soon as I got that thing out of the house ALL activity ceased immediately. It never returned. I now believe that which is holy and that which is profane can be attached to objects but that which is dedicated to Jesus Christ is WAY more powerful. Great show. Look forward to part 2.
The "pike" is a road .
Down the road.
Down the pike.
Hey guys :) Love the show. It was actually Hezekiah who destroyed the bronze serpent.
_“Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, _*_we know that an idol is nothing in the world,_*_ and that there is no other God but one” (I Cor. 8:4)._ Maranatha!
Good discussion.
Note: Human nature LOVES icons... this includes statues, crosses (as jewelry), even clothing like pope's hat and clerical collars.
Wrong. That’s not reflective of human nature but of God’s nature manifest in specific ways in His material creation. These are not arbitrary objects without purpose or reason but the energies of God at work in the material world.
Read about the essence energy distinction to better understand the logical extent of how God - not man or “human nature” - uses various things in the material world as images, icons, or precise reflections of that which is holy or heavenly.
There are countless biblical examples of this ranging from the countenance of Moses’ face after beholding the glory of God on Mt. Sinai to the bones of Elisha raising a man from the dead. Even the serpent Moses raised up in the wilderness was such an example, and what’s more, that example tells the cautionary tale of when man goes too far in honoring and venerating the things of God by turning them into actual idols. This however does not undermine the God’s power manifested through relics and icons but merely provides a helpful boundary for God’s people to adhere to so they know when they’ve gone too far.
@@aaronwolf4211 Neither Moses face nor Elijah's bones are external adornments!
My point is simply Biblical, not philosophical.
God's Word is not 'wrong'...
1 Peter 3: 3&4
"Do not let your adornment be merely outward-arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine appare- rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God."
@@aaronwolf4211 God performing a miracle through an object was not done for the purpose of sending the message that the use of relics when the 2nd commandment clearly forbids the use of worship aids of any kind. God does not contradict His own laws.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 You're right. He doesn't. But it means you might not quite understand them. Do you understand the cultural, historical, and linguistic meaning and purpose of the 2nd commandment? Probably not, since your overly simplistic view completely contradicts the entire structure of tabernacle and temple worship. Such objects are not sources of worship or items to be worshipped. They are tools of worship which point to the One True God and/or they are objects imbued with the energy or presence of the One True God. This is not difficult too understand but reformed theology can't make sense of such a view because they lack the appropriate context.
@@eswn1816 Which Word? The Torah? Luther's canon? One of the multiple 4th century proto-canons? Who do you think selected and organized the Scriptures you are using today to defend an improper interpretation? You think you are engaging in a biblical debate but you are really just quote mining Scripture verses to suit the tradition you've been taught, which is "The Bible is self-interpretive...except all the things that my reformed pastor teaches which never existed in Christianity prior to the 1500s." So why do you think your interpretation of 1 Peter is even in reference to the issue at hand?
I went to Egypt about 20 years ago and while there, purchased a couple of papyrus pieces painted with various iconic scenes. I legitimately only viewed them as art pieces based on history, so i had no qualms about getting them...so much so, that they both ended up being rather "religious" in their content. One was the judgment scene where the heart of the deceased is weighed against the feather of truth (straight out of the book of the dead). Another was a really beautifully colored picture of Maat....and the guy at the store wrote my name in hieroglyphics under it. I wasn't exactly comfortable with that but didn't say anything 🤦♀️
I kept them both for years but never got around to actually displaying them. They just sat in my desk drawerd under some heavy books and binders.
I don't remember at what point I started to feel convicted about having them, but I justified it to myself that they weren't being displayed/they cost money/they're beautiful pieces of art etc. I never experienced any kind of oppression that I can pinpoint, not of a supernatural nature at least, although I wondered more than once whether my name being written on the one piece envoked anything...it was a specific picture of her with her wings out, which was symbolic of her protection....so the guy at the store had basically literally put me under her protection by writing my name under her. Double 🤦♀️🤦♀️!
But a few years ago, probably after reading or listening to something on the subject, I finally decided they had to go, so I burned them. I felt kind of relieved after the fact, but since I can't say that I experienced anything supernatural related to them, I tend to think my relief was more in the unburdening that occurs when we are obedient.
Josh wearing the shirt that Miller has on in almost every photo of him online. I assume to test the sacred item theory.
😂
Love this show - thanks for all your hard work! Next episode you guys should totally look at the “holy water” used in Numbers 5:17-22 in the test for adultery
Love you guys! I watch your stuff all the time. I appreciate everything you all are doing. Not trying to be nit picky or anything. Just wanted to point out. When Michael was talking about the 10:40 mark it’s probably just a slip of the tongue but it was actually King Hezekiah that destroyed the bronze serpent not Gideon. Just for clarity it’s in 2 Kings 18:4. Just for reference. Again love you guys!
In episode 2 can you talk about holy water and crosses? My husband and I recently came across some holy water and I didn’t have a good way of explaining it to the kids. I didn’t want to say that the water is blessed and you can use it like a charm, nor would I say it was exactly just superstition, as that seemed to discredit praying for blessings over a project, situation or meal, as opposed to exclusively praying for blessings over a person.
Excellent episode! Would love it if you guys got into Eastern Orthodox iconography and if praying to paintings/ statues of Jesus is the same as idolatry?
Great episode. Looking forward to hearing about Roman Catholic relics and Anglican respect for saints and saint art.
There are no sacred objects
just people who tell you they are sacred.
Enjoy the game.
That venerating the dead
The Holy Hanky of Antioch. Sounds like something from Monty Python. The concept of 'annointing' is sometimes viewed as some sort of holy substance amongst some charismatics.
The closest thing I can think of personally is I bought a game that came with fake tarot cards based off the characters. But I didn't think twice about destroying those cards.
Great episode.
Thank you😊!
Good job great show
I hope y'all talk about the catholic teaching that Mary is the new ark.
Mary is the new Ark? Your kidding right ?
@@lw8981 not kidding. It is an intriguing concept though. Not that I believe it, necessarily. I think it would be interesting to hear their thoughts on it. 🤷♀️
We are only able to give a plan liminary groundwork for the subject. We will be doing apart two next week, that will probably cover some of those other objects in Jewish Christian and Catholic traditiona
@@marsherrmadd5380 Mike Winger covered it before on a video about Catholic Marian typology. Just in case you were looking for something on it in the meantime.
@@littleboots9800 thanks! Good to know.
Dudes...it's an all of the above situation.
The blessed items are magical but divorced from obedience to God and His purpose they are cursed.
Likewise many cursed things are magically empowered by demonic forces, but must be burned if we are obedient to Jesus.
No. No sacred objects. Only Yah is holy. No point in watching the rest of this episode.
You know you can be interested in the theology of others whilst not believing it yourself.
So when God calls the Holy of Holies the “Holy of Holies” you’re telling me that space was not actually Holy?
@@watchmanbob1317 you ignored the question. You said their is no sacred objects, but the scriptures say otherwise. So was the Holy of Holies actually a Holy and Sacred space?
Or in the Incarnation when the Son took on Human Nature did His Human nature not become Holy by virtue of it being United with His divinity?
@@watchmanbob1317 so you said there was no sacred or holy objects and now you say there are holy and sacred objects. 👍🏻 That this only extends to faithful Saints in the NT is your pre supposition that is ahistorical and unbiblical. The Orthodox Church (The Church that compiled and preserved the scriptures) for 2000 years has had miracle working Icons and relics etcc to this day.
Did you ever watch a video where Mike Todd used spit. Can’t remember what the sermon was on but this came to mind when you use the term spit 🫣