Is This System the NEXT STEP in 3D Printing?
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- Опубліковано 30 бер 2023
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In this video I show a concept which I thought is interesting enough to try out if it actually works. Is this the next step in 3D printing or is this a bad idea? I think it has an interesting potential which would be fun to explore further. What do you think? Ditch the plan and pickup another project or see how far we can go with this?
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Has this idea potential, or shall I ditch it altogether and move on with the next project?
its wayy too complicated. needs to look and be simpler!
Just go with the rule of cool just because its not BETTER doesn't mean its not stil FUN. Thats why delta printers are still a thing after all haha
@@jakeengland1430 - delta printers have the advantage of no Z banding from the bed moving up and down. Therefore, for the price you can get extremely high quality prints from a delta.
I love it! Please continue with this idea!
@@hayden9944 2 words, belted Z
I don’t know if it will work but the process is amazing. If you are enjoying the challenge, go for it. It’s not about it being perfect right away it’s about innovating and making it better.
This is not about making it better, it's about the view counts.
I think this system has enormous potential, would love to see how far you can push this
Thanks! I have this feeling too :D
@@properprinting this looks very promising for light gantries (with carbon rods?) and yes you should definitely carry on with the project. Towards Open source/commercial frame-robot type things? Regarding the speed-boat-race me (and the mrs) were watching and talking about engineering principals. On a core-xy printer, surely the Gantry and head need to be light but the Frame as rigid as possible regardless of weight? Some people literally bolt their frame to the nearest brick wall ;) also...
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I can see the benefit of triangles for maximum strength for the mass but could frame components be square (with internal triangular reinforcement?) for greater simplicity where weight is less critical? You'd only need 1 corner model :) xx
Everything that set us closer to a fully 3d printable 3d printer is to be considered big innovation for 3d printing. Great work!!
there's printers with 3d printed linears
I’m skeptical of the new system though if you push forward you’ll learn stuff that will enable you to make a better thing so it may be worth it anyway if you enjoy it. It definitely looks good!
Thanks and a bit of skepticism is good!
@@properprinting one of your major strengths (and the reason I think we enjoy your videos so much) is that you embrace all parts of the design process: you come up with a cool idea and get it from your brain into a real part or machine, and then you can critique your own work and feed that back into the design. Getting the whole design process right is not at all easy and yet every one of your videos shows us more of the art. Always inspiring.
@@peterspencer6442 fact-check: true!
Now, this might not be the fast printing revolution - but it could bring us closer to a stable and economic 3d printed 3d-printer frame, which I'm all for. I'd love to see you pursue this idea further!
Yes! It might become a cheaper alternative to exstrusions
Aren't extrusions already cheaper than that? It would be a different story if those blocks are injection moulded tho.
Even if this doesn't work as parts for a high-speed 3D printer, I can see this being useful as a structural component for building things like boxes and enclosures. I could see this making for a very interesting looking PC case, or as a replacement for those expensive aluminum extrusions you see on some printers (less cutting and drilling).
Hi, this is a great idea. Here in my country (Paraguay), it's really difficult to buy v-slot to make 3d printers, then you only can laser cut mdf or something like that. This idea can really have a great potential for smaller countries to promote building stuff. I would really love to see a full 3d printer frame made with this idea.
+1 Morocco ! :D
Is it 100% the only solution? No, not even close, but it is pushing design and a new approach. I think it is incredibly interesting and think there is a ton of potential here. I would say keep working on it until you hit a dead end. It is a great way to work those engineering muscles and shares a new perspective approach with the community! Great work!
Just found your channel, man this frame looks SO sick. It’s not a failure it’s a start of something great!
@@holeechitfukinfast.4900 Agreed. Whenever a new video from him pops up, I instantly turn into a 5 year old.
12:30 You look completely thrilled there! And I understand you completely: There's a satisfaction looking at your idea as something real, something you can touch, something you can use... No words for it 😁👌🏼
That little chuckle at 12:30 is exactly the reason I still keep making stuff. Things break, designs don't work out, unexpected problems out the wazoo, smacking my head at the wall for hours, days, weeks.
But at the end i have something that give me that little chuckle and suddenly the whole journey doesn't seem that bad after all.
Great idea! The tetrahedron is the most rigid structure from geometric principles. However exploring the unknown means that a few failures are to be expected and this is part of the learning process. They usually allow to generate new ideas.
Two things though:
- for smooth movements you need smooth surfaces.
- things that assemble will be heavier than something in one part as you need to generate extra loads to keep the parts together.
I'm eagerly awaiting next episode.🤩
it's awesome to see someone finally utilize the triange. i just cannot for my life find out why everyone use square tubes and stuff, when the triangle has the best strength of every simple geometry.. but i'd make it simpler, less modular, and i'd make it with only 2 smoothrods at 2 edges along the triangle. also i'd print it in one piece so you don't have to tighten the modules together. can't wait to see how you'll advance with this project
Well, it's not hard to guess, is it? People use square-everythings because it makes everything so easy to design in a CAD with a big cartesian raster. But you're right, that is not ideal. (And it's not like more sophisticated geometries would put the software to its limit!)
you have to use what is available... lightweight triangle extruded shapes are hard too find...
the other major reason people use squares in 3d printers is that triangular t-slot extrusions aren't nearly as common or available in as many sizes, therefore they're more expensive - and a truss like this would be even more expensive to mass manufacture
Yes! Watching your thought process and progression will be excellent!
Love, how it looks like! Thanks for the video!
If you went with the hollow tubing, you could thread it on the inside to provide extra support at the ends.
I definitely agree, smooth rods in the linear rail portion would definitely be better
Or, you could loctite in some threaded standoffs (like the ones used to mount PC motherboards). I'm taking my inspiration from archery arrows - hollow tube with a threaded insert epoxied into the end.
I think this is a great idea. You could build a "3d printed 3d printer" with this concept. And yeah, it looks freaking cool. Just imagine a printer built out of those. You just have to figure out a way to put a belt in there for xy and for z.... Well, you just put 4 of those rails vertical. Nice job man!
Thanks! Making a whole printer will be an interesting next step and I hope it will look like some miniature futuristic stage at a festival. I should print band members on the plate, I mean stage xD
“3D printed 3D printer” soooo… Reprap?
@@properprinting haha lol that would be so funny! I can already see the video in front of me, edited with music and lights shining from all sides 😂
@@properprinting For more inspiration I would totally look at the Rook 3D printer. It's using a printed frame. With something like this, it moves us one step closer to self replicating 3D printers in all but the nuts and bolts 😆
it is amazing how fast you have grown! Congrats! you earned it!
Keep the cool projects coming!!!
Yes, please, continue! When you ditch the thread, the printed wheels with pressed bearings should be enough for it to run smoothly. This could very well be the next iteration of reprap project. Just use 6x1mm ALU tube and tap for internal thread, and you're golden 🙂 The beauty of it lies in the minimal required tools - just tubing cutter, sandpaper and tap. This way you can eliminate the need for any saw or dremel with cutting disc...
Your tenacity with these designs is completely insane... and sincerely inspiring. Plus yes, I would love to see you make a printer out of this system, or at least a working gantry.
Definitely should try a carbon fiber tube on a micro-sized track roller.
I love the direction this is heading in as a concept. Sure it's not the most rigid frame in the world, but it's definitely a cool exploration!
So right off the bat I said to myself... Stainless Hypo-tubes instead of threaded rods. For reference, I've been a design engineer in the medical device space for the past 30+ years. As for lightening... Maybe a triangular beam that is not skeletonized but has gyroid infill, printed with one side on the build plate. That'll already make it as flat as the built plate, if it doesn't warp.
I like this subject and I think you're on point thinking about the next step in 3D printing.
As always, Awesome work!
Thanks for sharing.
Great video from real and honest development. Thank you!
Keep going with this idea, smooth hollow rods (carbon fiber, titanium or similar) with smooth bearing would make all the difference
I also had the thought, for people who want formula one levels of performance you are looking at X price range but for others who are happy with the weighted version, the price is X
How can I "...throw more Input Shaper on it..." - I want that, I need that, I love round corners :-D
Try designing the segments to use 1 threaded rod through the center. Make the end segments a little more stout or a plate of some kind to allow more torque from the single rod and connecting points for the joint. For the corners, make them interlocking and completely round or what ever mating shape you want the rollers to be. OR 2 corners interlocking and 1 corner designed to hold a hollow tube for the linear rail.
Yes! For sure don't stop this project!!👍👍👍
This is a win win for everyone. It's entertaining, there is much to be learned through this iterative design process, and it's inspiring for everyone to see someone think differently and to approach problems in this manner. I highly recommend you continue.
I would definitely like to see you pursue this idea/concept as this has great potential. It may ultimately prove to not be suited for fast 3d printing, but it will drive innovation in the industry and others that rely on motion systems.
Really cool idea, the customizable frame design seems like it'd be really useful for things like enclosures, hope you keep iterating to see where you can go with it. Another idea would be instead of trying to start from scratch and designing your own linear rail system, maybe you could look at an existing linear rail and see what the bare minimum that you could add to it to turn it into a gantry, combining the best of both worlds (a proven effective rail design and a cheap yet lightweight extrusion to attach it to).
Yes, please continue. This work is inspiring.
Well done. buddy.
The result is impressive. Really modular and very interesting, just like you told me earlier =)
I like the design! If it doesn't work out as a linear rail, I think this has potential for robotics as a frame. Similar to the currently often used aluminium extrusions.
As you already suggested, tubes instead of threaded rods might be a good alternative. If the wall thickness of the tube is thick enough, an inner thread instead of an outer thread could be used to tension the stacked modules. This has the benefit of using a smaller thread than one would need for an outer thread. (Hope this makes sense) However, the tubes then need to be shorter as the stacked modules.
I always get so pumped when I see you have a new video out!!! 🤘
Looks cool, I like that it's modular
Ideas, use the hollow steel tube:
1) at the end use a long screw and glue with J-B Weld original(or your glue of choise)
2) use one of those ball joints used in RC for the stearing, insert the side of the ball into the tube, form the tube ends to make them hug the ball, add glue if posible. The threaded side should stick out and allow you to apply tension, you can choose from steel, brass or alum.
This is my first comment ever.
I think there might be a misunderstanding with light as possible. The static parts should be as heavy as possible. Different materials should help with dampening the vibration.
Only the moving parts should be light and stiff.
True that! This reminds me of a video Tom Sanladerer once made where he filled his extrusions with sand. Maybe I can make closed segments which you can fill up xD
Yes, I always thought Tom is called SANDladerer ;) he should have left out the moving parts.
@@properprinting You can refer to X1C's implementation for inspiration. It may save you some time.
By the way, Winston Moy did the same with a Shapeoko CNC 3 years ago. You can find it on his channel.
Yes. The static structure must be able to absorb the forces generated during acceleration and deceleration. A heavier structure will reduce the magnitude of any vibration. I vaguely remember someone suggest using magnets as dampeners.
The generated force can be minimised by reducing the weight of moving parts in the first place.
Another thing to watch out for is the natural resonance frequency of the moving parts. The printer's frequencies of speed changes should not overlap with it.
Id love to see this scaled up. Doesnt seem like the best option for going fast but still could make building large printers much cheaper. For example a 500mm sized printer, would be great to see.
I would love to see you go on with this project! Well done as always.
Don’t get discouraged!
There is no innovation without frustration.
I personally enjoy watching your progress.
I love it! Please continue with this idea!
I absolutely want to see this entire process to completion! Keep going. That's a cool system!
Holy yes please continue the build it looks awsome
I would love to see you go further with this! Take this as far as you can.
YES! More Videos!! You are on the right track, for the scale look at how to make the trusses with hollow tube without becoming breakable. I believe you are on the right direction by making them like Lighting trusses.
I like the way you think completely out of the box, and try before the project dies. please don't give up
It is with great admiration that I indulge in the captivating content of your videos. Your thought processes and intricate designs are a true inspiration. As a future hobbyist, I intend to procure a 3-D printer to pursue similar creative endeavors. Therefore, I urge you to persist in your efforts, as the knowledge that you impart through your experiments will undoubtedly bear fruit in the long run. Moreover, I must add that your channel is highly entertaining, and I have subscribed with great anticipation for the forthcoming videos.
I would do this as a drop in replacement for a voron gantry. That way people can scale it up or down depending on their printers needs. I think a hollow steel tube would be best as you can then tap them and screw in standoffs. Keep going and make this a full build
You had my curiosity, now you have my attention. Keep up the work!
Criminally underated CHANEL!!!!!😢 keep up to good work.I love your content❤
I love new designs whether it works or not. Amazing video.
Love your content Jon. Always looking for a new Vid from you. Wish you would do more but always worth the wait for the gold. This again is exceptional in always, especially your offbeat humour. Fav 3d print channel, cheers from Tasmania
Love it! Very cool idea, and it would be awesome to see this concept progress into the full project you were hinting at! I wonder if a single rod down the middle would provide the necessary compression and stiffness with the 3D printed trusses providing the tension. Although, it might not allow for the smoothest of tracks for the bearings. I'd like to see your ideas for improving on this though.
I think your design is awesome! Would love to see this go further!
I would love to see you take this further,
I might suggest rather than an enclosed triangle ⛛ , an equilateral Y shape. Tubular roller shafts (rather than threaded) should give a better weight to strength ratio; the receiving cups could be much smaller, and use CA glue for bonding lengthways. Have the wide of triangle down on flat surface, apply CA to upwards facing leg 'cup', drop in tube, which could be held down with a milled jig to ensure straightness and uniformity of pressure while curing. Ends of tubes can be tapped as needed. Not sure about the rest since I am only a lowly Ender 3 V2 use, but fascinating to watch your design progression.
Yes keep going, love this channel and like your methodology.
Great video Jon! I would love to see how far you could get with this.
Nice! I’ve been thinking about something with a similar form factor but larger for long and rigid DIY CNC rails.
Keep going. The design looks great.
Very cool. Would for sure like to see more.
I'm intrigued. I'm waiting for an update on that!
Keep going it’s amazing 🤩 get the small steel rollers and the smooth rods with thread on the ends. Look forward to the next video thanks 🙏
Off course we want to see the full build!!!
Definitely would love to see more.
This is an awesome idea with excellent implementation. I think instead of buying 100% threaded rod we should try to find some smooth steel rods(think Prusa style linear rods) that can easily be threaded with a DIE. Ideally sizes that can threaded directly or by just removing the surface finish/chrome with a file/grinder/belt sander. I'm picturing some sort of bearing harness that allows you to rotate it easily to get an even finish for threading with the DIE. If it catches on I'm sure China will eventually sell cheap pre-threaded rods but until then I personally would prefer stronger smooth rods over 100% threaded. They would likely be more concentric as well.
Please continue this! I'd absolutely love to learn from what u end up doing so that I could maybe make a whole printer that's light and easy to bring around someday!
Also, it might be interesting to integrate the threaded rods for tool head movement. If you did that though I'm almost certain that you'd lose the core xy system that the voron has
This is a great video. Your CAD skills are top notch, especially the ability to make that complex corner piece printable without supports. The idea itself is great and I would love to see more of it.
Smooth titanium rods are definitely the way to go.
As far as filament goes, here are some things to things to think of.
For Stiffness, from most stiff to least, there is (Carbon Fiber Filament, HIPS, PLA, Poly Carbonate and then everything else).
For Density from lowest to highest ( Polypropylene 0.9 g/cm3, HIPS 1.03 g/cm3, ABS 1.04 g/cm3, Nylon 1.06- 1.14 g/cm3, ASA 1.07 g/cm3) and then everything else).
For Strength from strongest to weakest (PVA, Polycarbonate. Nylon, PLA, ASA, PETG and then everything else).
For Durability from most durable to least, (Nylon, Polycarb, ASA, Polypropylene, ABS, PETG, HIPS, PVA
For a part that needs to be stiff and light but not necessarily durable (Carbon Fiber Filament)
For a part that needs to be light and durable but not necessarily stiff (ASA or Nylon)
For a part that needs to be stiff and durable and light (HIPS)
You can find more material info on Simplify3d's resources page.
Yes I want to see more of this!! The best youtube videos are where the creator has expended the maximum amount of effort into a design, that ends up being a regression and worse off in every measurable way compared with an existing product! This isn't sarcasm, I enjoyed every minute of this video, and love the design despite its flaws.
This is amazing, YES continue with that design and make some changes where needed. I love the way it looks!
Good sir, I'm just here for the ride, I will appreciate watching whatever you explore. I personally won't probably make anything you do directly but things you discover along the way could be incorporated into what I do.
I love how your brain works and the determination.
Anything you do is super interesting. Just keep making videos!!!!
very cool. im super curious now. cant wait to see more. Thanks! you rock and passionate about this hobby! keep it going!
I would watch at least one more video on these trusses. They just look so cool!
YES!!!! Please continue to developed this :D
Definitely has potential! I would love to see your version of a mostly 3D printed 3D printer. I know the Mulbot and some others already exist but your design skill is just on another level
I think even if it doesn't turn out to be any better, it's still a really cool modular building system. what I would personally do is not prioritize weight, and try to focus more on improving modularity and ease of use.
modular systems are jack of all trades, unless extremely specific condition, a purpose-built system at equal cost will always perform better.
if you want to make it lighter you might want to look into topology optimization for your 3D printed segments.
Absolutely Amazing 🤩🤩🤩
This is amazing! I really hope you keep working on this. Subscribing for more of this.
You're the man! Love what you are working on. It seems to me that you are very close to a design that has the potential to take a 3d printed 3d printer to the next level. I say press on, what you're doing is really cool.
Please continue investigating this design. It is really cool.
I think the Lego 3d printer concept is really interesting and definitely worth it. Maybe you won't get the fastest or lightest or even the most precise 3D printer out there, but I think that the best of Lego is their capacity of give a lot of freedom of creation coupled with great practicality.
I think you should aim at that.
Figure it out! I'd love to se this finished!
I'd love to see how far this project can go. The original open source concept for 3D printers was to make a machine that make more machines. I think you're on the right track. It's super cool what you're doing, even if it's not the lightest setup, weight is not the only factor for printing well and with speed.
Consider using carbon fiber rods. Cheaply available online.
looks great, would like to see more on this project
I really love this modular truss design, it may not be the absolute best for a specific use case but it has a TON of potential for a general purpose building system.
I like where you are going with this. I want to start making irregular shaped and sized custom printers, and this sparks some ideas. Thanks for the video!
Hey John,
I would like to see digging in the world of speed printing.
You're doing very unique videos, which I always enjoy to watch!
Can't wait to see your other ideas/projects.
this is super cool, i'd love you do more work on it
That’s without a doubt the coolest thing I’ve seen today! Please continue with your research since I don’t have the time for it. 😢
I really like to see the iteration and discovery on this project, we never know what will you be ended up, but sure alot of learning. Good Job bro
John, you are a MAD GENIUS. I love the look of this system you have pioneered here.I see huge potential. Maybe the lighter faster result will be what you achieve, but certainly, this could be scaled up to make a very large printer. And I do mean VERY large. Like print a dashboard large. Or maybe as a gantry for a cnc router.
As for modular printer construction, this is if nothing else coolest looking thing I have seen in a good while. Love to see more.
this is without a doubt the most interesting idea ive seen in a very long time
I like this idea, but I don't think that printing them in small segments makes much sense. The printed pieces are probably heavier and less stiff as a result of being small segments. I would recommend that you create a parametric CAD version that generates some unit length printed truss (if you haven't already).
I also think that using advanced vase-mode techniques can get you maximum strength to weight ratio. I recently released some advanced vase-mode cylinders on printables for model rocketry that have built-in strengthening ribs as part of the CAD model and are printed purely in vase-mode. I can't post the link here unfortunately but the model name is "Advanced Vase-Mode Hollow Cylinders (model rocketry related)" if you search it should come up.
nice ideao, potential is here, go for it!!!
I love how the title of this vid is not clickbait at all
It's a beautiful contraption. If you make videos about it, I'll keep watching. I really enjoy your channel. The gel printing was very cool. Don't be discouraged and keep trying. Even IF you fail, the progress you have made can transfer into other projects or ideas.
great work dude