To everyone who played FF in their childhood, who traveled to other worlds and loved their time there .. I just want to say that i see you, and im glad that we are comrades in this experience. We are very fortunate to enjoy this series in a way that wont be possible soon enough. Keep loving final fantasy ❤
@@TheOneGreatI hated 15 but after 16 I've gone back and realised the world of 15 feels significantly more alive, lived in and "real". 16's endless hallways, lack of civilisation, lack of quests outside of fetch, hunt and "talk to the local people" made it feel like the fakest videogame world ever. Also the story literally forgets bearers exist halfway through... The main point of the fucking story itself is thrown out the window for a different focus out of nowhere
@@liamace1107XV had only 2 towns the whole game tho. How does it feel more alive? Especially since all the NPC are all copy pasted with side quests only for you collect dog tags, ingredients, and catching frogs? Sorry I have to disagree with that one lol. And the bearers were forgotten about if you done the side quests.
@@Rithysak101Dont listen to the xboners (like @liamace1107 ) that throw nonsnesical criticism at the game. They just hate for the sake of hating The game lives and dies on free will and the relation of powerhungry/dependant humanity with magic and slaves. Beares are the focus point of the game.
This is why I'm beginning to truly like Japanese game design over western. Many modern western developers are afraid to implement complex concepts and symbolism into their games in fear of not reaching mass appeal, but Japanese devs understand that you can implement such things in your work and the people who have the knowledge will appreciate the concepts and symbolism, while others who might not catch them can still have a great experience regardless.
as of now, atheism & wokenism are the only "messaging" that plaguing most western games & it's definitely lack of nuances, completely in your face & rather cringe.
its funny this was exactly the same situation around 30-40 years ago , cultures have this tendency to stay in ignorant patterns/cycles over and over again
@@lucas2maziniyes you re right and i was wrong. The thing is, that in my country we associate this word normally with fantasy in stories, thats why interpreted wrong. But the word ultima is a word from my country and it means last or final.
Another thing is Mythos and Logos is the same translation for "word" and the way that the ancient Greeks saw mythos and logos, was that they were not complete opposites but two different ways to convey the truth, another thing I haven't seen anyone talk about is the image of Ifrit risen looks like Neon Genesis when Unit 01 has the wings, and the symbol that Ultima has, looks like a Sephirot
Excellent video, I'd like to see you do more on XVI as I think there's a plethora of other narrative aspects to dive into. I feel like the ending really plays into the themes of breaking away from fate, free will, choice and living/dying on your own terms. We aren't shown the outcomes of the characters, as now their fates are their own; but there's a huge tapestry of facts, subtext, symbolism and themes to pull from that allows for the player to infer and write their own ending, or fantasy, so to speak.
The philosophy used in FFXVI, it's ending, and story are what many people misinterpret. The themes are what mecha anime like Evangelion and Gurren Lagann adapted, in addition to the Sephirot(Ultima's symbol). Jungism in video games and anime fascinates me to this day, but FFXVI is the deepest game that used Jung psychology to it's fullest. FFVII on the other hand handled Gnosticism sufficiently, and FFXVI shared similar elements and main struggle with FFIX: free will. The hopes of Ultima of resurrecting his fallen race and the citizens of Valistea handling the Mothercrystals, and Clive/Joshua as the epitomy of Mythos and Logos(the persona and it's shadow), or should we say 'the Savior'.
Great video, the themes tackled in the game resonated heavily with me and I’m glad I found this video to better understand some of the symbolism I might’ve missed,
I'm so glad I'm not the only one that felt like this. 16 is also in my top FF games along with 6 and 7 and type 0 and tactics mainly due to the story. Sub earned for sure
Clive's voice opens the game, and his lines sounds very much like he's reading from a novel. The last line of the opening is, "And thus did our journey begin." The very last line of the game, also in Clive's voice, is, "Thus did our journey end." Like the last line of a novel. I believe Clive survives. We have lines from Jill shortly before the ending about the always dawn coming and Clive always coming for her. We have a line about not even the Phoenix being able to bring back the dead, mind, perhaps Ultima's spell could, given he's trying to cast raise. I don't think Clive casts Raise on Joshua though. I think that would take much more energy than he uses, and the energy seems to be fire-based, not Ultima's blue. I think he's just using Phoenix's power to make Joshua whole. All this to say, I believe Clive lives, and that we "play" the novel.
My take is that Clive survives the Ultima battle, we see this in him being still alive on the coast, but has sacrificed all his Eikonic powers to remove the Blight and Aether from the world I think, and his arm was consumed by the Curse, which means that he didn't have much time left, but it was more than likely enough to write a novel. Joshua surviving is pure speculation, we get zero evidence of that. Agree on the novel part.
@@JuliusCaesar103my take is that Clive lives but his son writes the book and they called him Joshua. A tale of his parents fight for survival and love. Clive HAS to live for it to be a complete book. Nyssa Defile was Clive and Clive only. Phoenix Gate's sole survivor was Clive aswell. The only person to live the entire thing was Clive.
I wish clive had chimed in with some narration at every point in the story when you enter a new area, like heavensward. would've been so good man, i loved the intro narration from him.
Something I only recently looked into and learned about was the the XVI tarot card, which is called “the tower”. Besides imagery and themes the tarot card has relating to FFXVI the Japanese cover of the game is really close to the card itself. Clive stepping beyond the tower(crystals) and smoke where great kings rule onto Gods territory(the floor is the final battle ground) aiming to destroy it with the powers he has been given.
Your videos are so informative, Max! I’m looking forward to playing 16 at some point, I also hope you make more videos about 16 too. I hope your hand heals soon too.
I enjoy your take on the Christian symbolism, my read was slightly different. I think the Joshua=Jesus parallel is bang on, but I think the vast majority of the game actually occurs in between the period of Resurrection and Ascension. A period of transition after which man takes responsibility for carrying out the word of God, ultimately washing away the sins of the past (in this case Ultima's magic/curse). The way I see it, Joshua is "resurrected" after the events of Phoenix gate. Clive's return to the Phoenix Gate being analogous to the Empty Tomb. Joshua is preparing his followers (the Undying) and ultimately Clive for his ascension. There are some parallels here between Mary of Magdala and Jote. I think there may also be some intended analogs between Clive and Paul. At Origin he passes his spirit into Clive as his final act, then ultimately ascends to the heavens with the message and spirit remaining on earth, effectively passing the baton to humanity. Clive then carries on his Word in the form of a book written in his name (The Word of God). As an aside, if the team decides to release a XVI-2, I could see them carrying this thread through. The next installment covering a period of "spreading the word" to the rest of the unexplored world (the Continent, the Southern Lands, etc.) and the inevitable conflict that would arise in doing so.
Wow, incredible the way such symbolism is subtly woven in. The world building and detail in this game is incredible. On the surface everything (besides the ending, I guess) is explained so explicitly and clearly, leaving no ambiguity, but then there's also all this implicit stuff going on under the surface. Also, for a game that, on the explicit surface, is so obsessed with killing God, there's a surprising amount of Christian undertones! lol
I'd love to see a deep dive into the Legend of Heroes: Trails... series starting from the beginning, though I know that's asking a lot. They have some moments of great depth, though maybe not the deepest games ever. Once you get to Trails in the Sky the 3rd, there's some good meat to consider there, though. Really in Sky SC as well.
@@diegeticfridge9167 Yeah. If anyone deserved a happy ending, it was Clive. His entire adult life, almost 20 years, he hasn't known peace. I was desperate for him to live happily ever after with Jill.
Clive narrates the beginning and ending of the game, as if reading from a book Clive also has a sidequest where he and tomes talks about Clive writing down his adventures once his mission is complete. Clive’s mission was to honor the legacy and wishes of Cid, whose name he took to complete his wish. So he took Josh’s name after honoring Cid’s legacy, and wrote to book to honor Joshua’s legacy. And at the very end when the sun rises, Jill takes a deep sigh of relief and starts smiling, as if she’s seeing something that we don’t. Probably Clive. And also, as for Joshua being alive, consider that Clive healed his body with powers of the phoenix, which already stated in game the phoenix “can heal the flesh but not the spirit” And not only that, his body doesn’t move or breathe at all after being healed. And Ifrit and Phoenix needed to be merged in order to use Raise, the resurrection spell.
droppin this here because I'm glad you made a vid on this game and I'm sure it' gonna be a good one, gonna hold on to watch it until after I get a chance to play the game for myself first. FF games are just on a special tier in my heart that I think having things spoiled for me might taint the experience for me, so because of this I wanted to leave you a note of encouragement even if I gotta withdraw my view for now. Will be revisting later and look forward to it!
I will post this comment before I watch the video. Like you Max, my favorite Final Fantasy game was FF9, hey I even named my child after Adelbert. I finished FF16 last night and that was an incredible experience but you know what, FF16 story serve as the contrast of what FF9 takes on existentialism and determinism :)
I really hope this game gets the game of the year. I lean more and more toward Asian created games because when if they decide to make a game, they make a game that makes you brainstorm and think about what the game - creators wanted to tell behind their creation. What is the 'Ultima' meaning behind it? What's its purpose? What is it saying? and other questions. Games that make you question the existence and the meaning behind certain actions and symbolism comparing them to real-life facts are what truly amazes me and attract me to be a part of it. Nowadays, for example, western games tend to avoid deep philosophical, thought-provoking questions because they FEAR that the audience will be misunderstood, misinterpret and as a result will lynch the game for its negative story telling. After all, the user was so dumb that he couldn't read the signs and or under the lines what the game's storytelling is about. FFXVI is the game of the decade which went back to _the old roots_ of asking the user through symbolism, and actions some questions that we must answer. God, I love this game! I think it's been 10 to 20 years since we last seen a game with a deeper meaning. In my opinion, _'True Games'_ - are the games that are worth playing not just for fun but for making me look through a different lens and ask questions to myself and find the answer through the game. FFXVI is one of them. 🙏 Thank you, Max Derrat for reviewing this! I hope to see more videos about FFXVI because I believe there is more to say about this game _'Hidden Messages'._
Amazing video! Feel like i could listen to these types of convos all day, how we interpret our existence through art truly has no bounds and when it’s done well it’s amazing to experience.
I think a lot of people didn’t like that ending as they wanted a definitive ending. Something they didn’t have to get all philosophical just to interpret. Unfortunately for them the Final Fantasy series has always tried to reach the philosophical. Even the very first game the heroes had to beat Garland/Chaos in order to break a time loop. That alone opens a whole can of debate that I think most players never read into! I personally like this about the series as each entry poses a different question, and I think they did it pretty well in 16! Speaking of fate and all that, I personally would love to hear about one of my favourite stories: live A Live! Definitely a game that’s ending is something all classic RPG players need to see!
Interesting, from my perspective the ending was very definitive. Clive died, resurrecting Joshua in the process and changing the fundamentals of how the world functions. He removed magic from the equation. At least that's what I got from the ending. Then again, I'm terrible at noticing subtlety. My mind works with concrete, explicit information. That's why I watch channels like this one to help me appreciate games in a deeper manner
Generally, any time you have an ambiguous ending -say in a film...the Ending isn't the point. You're supposed to struggle to figure out whether one thing or another happened, and THEN realize that's unimportant. It's not what the film is actually about.
can't watch since I haven't gotten through the game yet, but it's nice to see positive coverage for FFXVI amidst all the unhinged hate against this game, and from an actually great content creator no less 👏
First of all. I'm allways in love with your analisis and I've just finished Final Fantasy XVI on the PC and got really excited on hearing other people's tought on the game. My wife watched with me play the entire journey and we've been spenting a lot of time on ouro working breaks to discuss the story. And one of the things we discussed the most were the Christian symbolisms of the game and your video basically answered briliantly all of them. Thank you so much. I like how you tackle on limitations of material conditions in order to a human achieve free will, because if the game didn't adress those issues It would end up like a mediocre story about how you can achieve anything through the pure power of motivation like a Shonen Anime. And I think one of the best examples on the game's story showing that is through the rebels in Cid's hideout. Bringing up two authors that tackle on material anaylis: Karl Marx and Friederich Engels and their theory on materialist dialectic. Cid joins his band of rebels saying that he wanted a place where beares could be: "Free to die one their own terms" and in this world, beares are a slave laber force. Beares are the working class of this game, and as in Marx theory of the Class Strugle, beares don't have freedom. So, basically Cid's hideout as an independent faction in the game is... A Comune. If you take out the Blacksmith that upgrade your gear and the Shoopkeeper that sells you suply charging the in-world currency. All the other members of the hideout are working for the collective good of the group. And that's shown as pretty clear through the first two sidequests avaliable in the game: One of the sidequests asks you to go serve some dishes to the workes in the hideout, and the Tavernkeeper explains that everyone in the hideout earns food because everyone is colectivelly helping with their own capabilities; "From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs", everyone must be fed. The second sidequests aks you to check out on a woman that was collecting dirt in order to help an experiment that might enable to grow crops in that desolate lanD devoid of ether - Clive finds the girl and says that she can return to the safety of the hidout and finish the job, even though they were each assign to diferent functions in the comunity, everyone helps. I'm not sure if this whole marxist lens through which I've seen this part were intentional, but this game's writer Kazutoyo Maehiro is a well-known disciple of Yasumi Matsuno, a Game Designer well-known for bringing themes of Class Struggle in his games.
i congratulate you for this beautiful video! im late to this and finished the game a while ago so ill say what i remember. since Joshua was on origin i speculated that he might died despite the heal clive did on his chest. after that he see clive looking at the night sky with clear petrification signs on his hands. afflicted faster than usual. with torgal's sad howl at the moon, jill's and gav's crying in realization of clive's passing. at least that how i preserved it. as a tragic tale with a good ending!
This video makes me feel like I suddenly aged a decade. I feel like 15 just came out a bit ago, and I literally didn't even know 16 existed prior to seeing this...
This was an amazing analysis, i’m glad that a lot if the things i noticed you did as well, which meand i was not overthinking it lmao. Great video!!! ❤
Great video, also would like to add that Ultima wants to merge Mythos to achieve his ultimate goal. Another name for Ultima is Final, Mythos means Fantasy. Thus Ultima wanted to become a Final Fantasy in the end to achieve its dreams
Interesting and intriguing at the same time. After my 1st playthrough, the idea of fate and free will is came to my mind at another FF game but I could not remember clearly. However, you have reminded me it is similar as FFIX, and some other game. Knowing this made me more interest to finish the 2nd playthrough. Thanks for the video! 👍🏾
Great great video. This game's world is so rich, so dense. Ijust can't stop playing it (finishing ultimaniac now) EDIT: Loved Id's Theme from Xenogears! Another classic!
Very good video (like always) ; i have some precision to add about what Jung meant by Self (I read almost all off his work and work myself on it). The Self is the center of the psyche and can only be experience in some particular "attitude" of the psyche, it is not to be confuse as self wich can be attain throught the individuation process. The first is a center wich produce most than not "religious" experience, and the second is what we attain when we understand and differenciate what is in our own head (fonctions of the psyche notably). In most fiction the story that's been told is a reflection on the process by wich someone is actively or been forced to differenciate the world from himself, and in himself wich is what, and to what purpose ; In this game (that i have not do) the end purpose is to bring reason, that is the capacity to see wich is something and wich is an other thing with words and concepts. To better understand what Jung meant in his work it is important to read "types pscyhologique" wich is a very important book of his work ; it help to see how the psyche evolve in itself and with the world, and therefore what type of story it tells to explain and understand itself. I really love fiction in all of its form and if you want to discuss this subject i can bring some stone to the building !! Keep the good work going !! Sorry for my French (because i am one^^)
Great video have liked your other ones so was glad to see you tackled 16. Just beat it two days ago so catching up on 16 content because even if you watch spoiler free videos the UA-cam algorithm will start recommending other similar videos and jerks put huge spoilers in the thumbnail and titles. Fantastic game Creative Business Unit 3 has been on a roll.
Coming back to this video after some days, i just realized how much i love the discurse of ff16 about god and free will. I think its a concept that many people didn't get at the end of the game.
This is such a fascinating video! Thank you so much for the upload! Just to add, another reason that Joshua is linked to Jesus is the fact that he wears red clothes! In biblical paintings you often see Jesus wearing red (which can mean a multitude of things in Christianity, but most likely references martyrdom/the blood of Jesus), so there's another reason the two are linked :)
Awe ... Great video and excellent work, as always. Though I was hoping you'd have explored the symbolism of 'Magic' (in FFXVI's world context) more within this video. Magic ... it would seem, presented everyone that had it quite a burden. Not only Bearer's and Dominant's, but even the Fallen and Ultima. The more and more it was used, the more everything that _it used_ became cursed. Consider that Ultima is the 'God of humanity', the Creator ... he/they are not _the_ God though. God did not create humans here. What she created were the planets within her universe, and they are always very much considered *alive* in FF works. Made of Aether. That very same Aether that seems to be the fuel of spells. Historically ... Final Fantasy titles have often used magiteks to symbolism man's creation from and subjugation of _Nature_ . Their means to bend Reality to their will. But in XVI I believe Magic was used to represent this. Not only that ... but being that Aether = Magic and Aether = God's material to create ... in this story, Magic is very much the _will_ of the real God. So, where am I going with this ... Idolatry. Both humans and Ultima's race used magic and destroyed (or nearly) both of their worlds doing so. They both used the 'Will of God' to achieve a paradise that only God could create. But God 'shalt have no other gods before me'. Ultima's race destroying the Fallen, and almost doing so to humanity (again?) at the end of XVI had Ultima won. Clive destroying and taking the godlike eikons, before ultimately destroying Ultima. For anyone else using God's Will ... the only result will be Death, and in the case of Bearer's, they were turned to stone. Or if you think about it another way... Idols. Of false gods. Here's the punchline ... In order to break that chain, one must break free of that will of another. Magic ... had to be denounced and destroyed. That was the only way humanity or any being can break free of the true God's Will and create their own path. Ultima was not able to do so, constantly relying on magic and aether to do the things they thought to do. And as dark as slavery and subjugation of a person is, it had a silver lining. So to speak. Peoples' will evolved and developed over time to subconsciously realize that magic was not good to be doing. And what else resides within the subconscious, according to Jung? Dark emotions. That made manifest. And so... humanity suffered. And _will_ continue to suffer. Always. There is no spell to cast to fix your everyday problems. You have to fight. You have to endure God's true will. Just to survive ... because your consciousness itself makes you a God when you create your own story, and put it into a book. Just as God had done ... the Bible. EDIT: Ultima said at the end that the world was dead, a blackened husk. But when Clive destroyed, denounced, or rather _returned_ magic back to the source ... the planet was able to become 'whole' again. With God's Will restored as they intended ... the planet was able to recover and be that which God willed it to be. I'm not convinced the rebirth or resurrection is for either Clive or Joshua, but the planet herself. EDIT 2: Something else occurred to me. Could it be that Clive's choices were never his own...? Could it not be that Ultima was the foil of the one true God, and that is who went to battle? Ultima was destroying worlds, bending and breaking God's design or rather Will to do so. Clive is, after all, a vessel. That was his purpose. His design. Who is to say _what_ took hold of that ... Humanity's Will? Maybe the planet itself? Or maybe the one true God? To stop what Ultima was doing. Ultima was doing what they thought they had to do to break free of God's Will too, when you look at this way. More symbolism ... Clive's hand. The one he used to fling magic. The one he held up at the beginning and held a fireball, and at the end when that fireball faded away for his hand to become stone. The Hand of God..... And the cover art. Ifrit vs Phoenix. Is it really just to represent the first big fight of the story? Or the joining of the two at the end? Or might meant to mean Ifrit = Ultima, the destroyer of worlds and of God's Will ... With Phoenix = true God, to stop the collective of consciousness into one being and rebirth a world where individual consciousness is born from the ashes. The child that was born at the end to Edda ... is from Ash... Magic is still real though. In our Reality. Our Universe. You all may know it by another word ... *Manipulation* . Words can be woven into another's brain just right to produce a result you desire. People resent and hate this. They hate the _bearers_ of such a gift!
Magic in FF16 is very much like mako in FF7. Makes life easier, but it is killing the world. If you want to see it as something different, it is possible. But the environmental messaging is pretty clear. I think it is punctuated by the scene after the credits with the boys and their mother living in a more simple world without magic.
@@thatoneLerrydude Is this mentioned in the 'active lore' or with Tomes, or elsewhere? One thing I plan to do is talk to more NPCs during my new+ play through. The NPCs that don't have quests or anything to do with anything other than additional dialogue. There is likely good nuggets of lore info from a couple of them that otherwise would be missed entirely.
Crazy thought I just had. Now that the immediate relatives of the Phoenix-bearing bloodline are all dead, and an apparently magical child, from Ash, was just born right after Joshua's death... HMMMM it seems too convenient to be false. Edda's child is perhaps the new Dominant of the Phoenix. This fact would be in favor of determinism, as the child was already slated to be born before we knew Josh would die, therefore Josh's death was already written in fate...
It depends on your own education and intelligence. You can unga bunga this game, going to end, kill boss, and just see it as evil superior being vs humans. Or you can soak in the lore and try to understand things. Final Fantasy is accessible to all, not everyone NEEDS to attempt to figure out all things.
A lot of my thoughts mirror your points. What with Ultima being a composite being, I really think that the godlike status he has attained is why human weaknesses and the ability to overcome them are so alien to him. Because we CAN’T introspect without limits. That’s where our pain comes from, but also our ability to empathize with each other and connect. So we have the evolutionary advantage, and can memetically impart a legacy of resilience. A being like by Ultima would have no conception of that selfless connection, and probably couldn’t envision death as anything but unpleasant. With Logos as the order vs Ultima’s chaos, I think it’s safe to say that while Ultima portrays himself as omnipotent, he too fears the entropy he has created. I think the switch from referring to himself in the plural to the singular in his last moments reflects this fear. It’s the source of many promethean characters’ downfall (like Dr. Frankenstein). The conflation of pleasure (I.e. the absence of pain), with meaning. That’s the weakness of a cosmic horror type god. So far removed from humanity because they represent our own insecurities. But while Ultima believes we are doomed because he sees himself in humanity and while we can fall prey to vice, that same evolution that gives way to both reason and faith comes from picking ourselves back up and living for our own principles rather than mere self preservation. Ultima ironically gave humanity everything it needed to surpass him, and gain complete self awareness. In that way, we’re more than an imbalanced Anima, or a chaotic will to live. Due to the similarities between Clive and Ultima’s goals, I think Clive being the Logos is similar to one’s true divinity overcoming a demiurge that reflects their own limitations. Mythos to Logos.🙂
Despite the claims that FF16 is just a western game with a Japanese name slapped on it, I feel like it is very much suffused with Japanese themes. I recently heard a theory that the reason why so many japanese games, particularly jrpgs, involve fighting and killing gods is a reflection of a kind of underlying Japanese resentment against their leaders. Multiple times throughout the history of the island, their leaders promised to lead Japan into a golden era where it would be the most powerful country in the world. First with WW2 in its militaristic ambitions and then again with the economic bubble of the 80s. Both times Japan was met with miserable disappointment. The current people of Japan are living in a post-bubble era were they were never able to regain that glory in the 80s. Ever since the bubble burst, they have called the times the "Lost Decades." Combine that with a dangerously low birthrate and Japan is a society in decline. Who else is there to blame but the highest echelon of your society, who could be represented as gods? I feel like that (and certain other historical aspects like how Japan was stuck between the USSR and the USA) informed their media. And the common theme of free will might be a reflection of the fact that Japan is a very group-based society where there are certain stringent expectations placed on people starting at a very young age.
I think you're right on many points, only missing the fact that Japan's lord and emperor relationship never disappeared, it simply transformed and still exists in a different, more modern form. However, my issue is that the way that theme is done has become old and tired and overdone. It's been done to death in so many RPGs and none are exactly adding to it in any way. It's just been the same thing over and over again, and it was tired LONG before FFXVI came out.
@@ZerogunRivale When was the last time the Emperor wasn't a figurehead, though? They didn't really do anything throughout the whole Shogunate period. The military was in charge during Japan's colonialist period in the late 19th and early 20th century. After WW2, the Americans allowed him to remain, but they don't wield any real power over the modern government. I think most long-time fans of jrpgs have realized how much devs overuse the trope. It almost seems obligatory to have the final boss be some kind of evil god. I wonder if that's the case and devs feel like that's just how a jrpg is supposed to go.
@@fattiger6957 That's the thing about "cultural carryovers". Whether it be the shogun, the emperor, lords, etc., there is something about Japanese culture that has never escaped it and there is a subconscious level of fear in the society that's never gone away. I know people from Australia who have said that despite not being a penal colony for an extremely long time, the cultural effect of it has never vanished. The same could be said about the culture in West Germany vs. East Germany and it doesn't seem to be going away any time soon, unfortunately.
@@ZerogunRivale Cultures definitely have memories. The Chinese still have the memory of when their Empire was torn down by western powers. I do think there is a cultural fear in Japan of losing it's sovereignty, whether culturally or politically. I have noticed that reflected in their media, oddly enough particularly in two different Godzilla movies (Godzilla 1984 and Shin Godzilla)
I love this max thank you for taking the time to put this video together.out of curiosity have u seen EXO primal I have a theory that it was sum metaphysical meaning in it. im still working through the game but I haven't been proven wrong yet
just beat 16 a few days ago and THIS Pops up? oh hell yeah! i loved 16, so im always down for some more. cant wait for the PC version so i can gift it to my friend.
@6:45 😂 I'm extremely grateful I have the entire cross-section of knowledge required to get this joke in its full depth, because I haven't laughed like that since that episode premiered.
You really opened up my mind with this fantastic video!! Can I ask which is the book that you used to reference when you were talking about christ? 11:37 You definitely got my subscription click! Looking forward to checking out more of your content.
Considering the themes you've touched upon here, I think you'll have a FIELD DAY exploring the story of FFXIV, which was the director/producer's "first" Final Fantasy game. In particular, the story arcs of Shadowbringer and Endwalker are pertinent to what you've covered in XVI :>
Does this dude have book recomendations somewhere? Or articles? I’ve loved psychology and philosophy, but only learned it through videos, movies and games, would like to expand my mind on these topics.
man the thematic writing in this game is wholly underrated
Make a part II on XVI. There’s so much esoteric topics woven in this game.
i hope for a part II, i'm still suffering from the emotional damage because of the game ending 😭😭😭
@@AB-cr1cusame man, same.
@@AB-cr1cu emotional damage.
I'm happy with how it ended. It's more powerful in ambiguity.
To everyone who played FF in their childhood, who traveled to other worlds and loved their time there .. I just want to say that i see you, and im glad that we are comrades in this experience.
We are very fortunate to enjoy this series in a way that wont be possible soon enough.
Keep loving final fantasy ❤
I try but ever since XIII the series is on a serious decline for various reasons. XV was just bad but XVI is terrible in its own right.
@@TheOneGreatI hated 15 but after 16 I've gone back and realised the world of 15 feels significantly more alive, lived in and "real".
16's endless hallways, lack of civilisation, lack of quests outside of fetch, hunt and "talk to the local people" made it feel like the fakest videogame world ever.
Also the story literally forgets bearers exist halfway through... The main point of the fucking story itself is thrown out the window for a different focus out of nowhere
@@liamace1107XV had only 2 towns the whole game tho. How does it feel more alive? Especially since all the NPC are all copy pasted with side quests only for you collect dog tags, ingredients, and catching frogs? Sorry I have to disagree with that one lol. And the bearers were forgotten about if you done the side quests.
@@liamace1107ofc it is alive XVI world is dying. 🤡🤡
@@Rithysak101Dont listen to the xboners (like @liamace1107 ) that throw nonsnesical criticism at the game. They just hate for the sake of hating
The game lives and dies on free will and the relation of powerhungry/dependant humanity with magic and slaves. Beares are the focus point of the game.
I got up to 3:15 and boy am I excited to watch the rest once I finally beat the game!
You both mentioned the Shadow part, and I got hella interested. Hoping for your new parts of your FFXVI videos
This is why I'm beginning to truly like Japanese game design over western. Many modern western developers are afraid to implement complex concepts and symbolism into their games in fear of not reaching mass appeal, but Japanese devs understand that you can implement such things in your work and the people who have the knowledge will appreciate the concepts and symbolism, while others who might not catch them can still have a great experience regardless.
Totally agree, for me the only exception (sort of) is the God of War franchise
as of now, atheism & wokenism are the only "messaging" that plaguing most western games & it's definitely lack of nuances, completely in your face & rather cringe.
@@crozraven It's so bad, I agree.
its funny this was exactly the same situation around 30-40 years ago , cultures have this tendency to stay in ignorant patterns/cycles over and over again
@@crozraven what the fuck does wokenism mean? And what’s wrong with atheism?
Also there's another thing that Max forgot to mention:
Ultima means Last or Final;
Mythos can mean also Fantasy;
Final Fantasy
You're wrong, mythos doesnt mean fantasy lol
@@lucas2maziniyes you re right and i was wrong. The thing is, that in my country we associate this word normally with fantasy in stories, thats why interpreted wrong. But the word ultima is a word from my country and it means last or final.
Ultima means Final/Last in portuguese
@@lucas2mazini a myth is associated with fantasy. no need to include that immature "lol" at the end, like a 14 yrs old bellend.
@@lucas2mazini I'll give him the like anyway
Another thing is Mythos and Logos is the same translation for "word" and the way that the ancient Greeks saw mythos and logos, was that they were not complete opposites but two different ways to convey the truth, another thing I haven't seen anyone talk about is the image of Ifrit risen looks like Neon Genesis when Unit 01 has the wings, and the symbol that Ultima has, looks like a Sephirot
Isn't it though?
@@ShellyYum isn't it though what?
Actually I'm Greek and that's inaccurate. Mythos means legend and logos means reason and speech
@@pg5650it also means word bro
Excellent video, I'd like to see you do more on XVI as I think there's a plethora of other narrative aspects to dive into. I feel like the ending really plays into the themes of breaking away from fate, free will, choice and living/dying on your own terms. We aren't shown the outcomes of the characters, as now their fates are their own; but there's a huge tapestry of facts, subtext, symbolism and themes to pull from that allows for the player to infer and write their own ending, or fantasy, so to speak.
Yes I was hoping someone would touch on the symbolism in this game! Thank you so much!
This games just keeps getting better
Truly a masterpiece
The philosophy used in FFXVI, it's ending, and story are what many people misinterpret. The themes are what mecha anime like Evangelion and Gurren Lagann adapted, in addition to the Sephirot(Ultima's symbol). Jungism in video games and anime fascinates me to this day, but FFXVI is the deepest game that used Jung psychology to it's fullest. FFVII on the other hand handled Gnosticism sufficiently, and FFXVI shared similar elements and main struggle with FFIX: free will. The hopes of Ultima of resurrecting his fallen race and the citizens of Valistea handling the Mothercrystals, and Clive/Joshua as the epitomy of Mythos and Logos(the persona and it's shadow), or should we say 'the Savior'.
Hello, Xenogears is here.
"FFXVI is the deepest game that used Jung psychology to it's fullest" cough...cough.... Xenogears/the entire xeno franchise
@@metroidcypher Agreed.
@@metroidcypher I thinks he meant 'the deepest game that used Jung psychology to it's fullest'' of all the final fantasy, not of all video games.
Love this game, hope you cover it even more! Great video.
Great video, the themes tackled in the game resonated heavily with me and I’m glad I found this video to better understand some of the symbolism I might’ve missed,
I'm so glad I'm not the only one that felt like this. 16 is also in my top FF games along with 6 and 7 and type 0 and tactics mainly due to the story. Sub earned for sure
Clive's voice opens the game, and his lines sounds very much like he's reading from a novel. The last line of the opening is, "And thus did our journey begin." The very last line of the game, also in Clive's voice, is, "Thus did our journey end." Like the last line of a novel. I believe Clive survives. We have lines from Jill shortly before the ending about the always dawn coming and Clive always coming for her. We have a line about not even the Phoenix being able to bring back the dead, mind, perhaps Ultima's spell could, given he's trying to cast raise. I don't think Clive casts Raise on Joshua though. I think that would take much more energy than he uses, and the energy seems to be fire-based, not Ultima's blue. I think he's just using Phoenix's power to make Joshua whole.
All this to say, I believe Clive lives, and that we "play" the novel.
My take is that Clive survives the Ultima battle, we see this in him being still alive on the coast, but has sacrificed all his Eikonic powers to remove the Blight and Aether from the world I think, and his arm was consumed by the Curse, which means that he didn't have much time left, but it was more than likely enough to write a novel.
Joshua surviving is pure speculation, we get zero evidence of that. Agree on the novel part.
@@JuliusCaesar103my take is that Clive lives but his son writes the book and they called him Joshua.
A tale of his parents fight for survival and love.
Clive HAS to live for it to be a complete book. Nyssa Defile was Clive and Clive only. Phoenix Gate's sole survivor was Clive aswell. The only person to live the entire thing was Clive.
I wish clive had chimed in with some narration at every point in the story when you enter a new area, like heavensward. would've been so good man, i loved the intro narration from him.
Something I only recently looked into and learned about was the the XVI tarot card, which is called “the tower”. Besides imagery and themes the tarot card has relating to FFXVI the Japanese cover of the game is really close to the card itself.
Clive stepping beyond the tower(crystals) and smoke where great kings rule onto Gods territory(the floor is the final battle ground) aiming to destroy it with the powers he has been given.
Your videos are so informative, Max! I’m looking forward to playing 16 at some point, I also hope you make more videos about 16 too.
I hope your hand heals soon too.
I enjoy your take on the Christian symbolism, my read was slightly different. I think the Joshua=Jesus parallel is bang on, but I think the vast majority of the game actually occurs in between the period of Resurrection and Ascension. A period of transition after which man takes responsibility for carrying out the word of God, ultimately washing away the sins of the past (in this case Ultima's magic/curse).
The way I see it, Joshua is "resurrected" after the events of Phoenix gate. Clive's return to the Phoenix Gate being analogous to the Empty Tomb. Joshua is preparing his followers (the Undying) and ultimately Clive for his ascension. There are some parallels here between Mary of Magdala and Jote. I think there may also be some intended analogs between Clive and Paul. At Origin he passes his spirit into Clive as his final act, then ultimately ascends to the heavens with the message and spirit remaining on earth, effectively passing the baton to humanity. Clive then carries on his Word in the form of a book written in his name (The Word of God).
As an aside, if the team decides to release a XVI-2, I could see them carrying this thread through. The next installment covering a period of "spreading the word" to the rest of the unexplored world (the Continent, the Southern Lands, etc.) and the inevitable conflict that would arise in doing so.
Damn, that's really well thought out. Love it.
Wow, incredible the way such symbolism is subtly woven in. The world building and detail in this game is incredible. On the surface everything (besides the ending, I guess) is explained so explicitly and clearly, leaving no ambiguity, but then there's also all this implicit stuff going on under the surface.
Also, for a game that, on the explicit surface, is so obsessed with killing God, there's a surprising amount of Christian undertones! lol
I'd love to see a deep dive into the Legend of Heroes: Trails... series starting from the beginning, though I know that's asking a lot. They have some moments of great depth, though maybe not the deepest games ever. Once you get to Trails in the Sky the 3rd, there's some good meat to consider there, though. Really in Sky SC as well.
I second this I just started cold steel 2 and Im loving it so far
Yeah, I'm still playing through the series. I love the idea and world building.
The end credits song when translated heavily implies that Clive survives
We all hope so 🥲
@@diegeticfridge9167 Yeah. If anyone deserved a happy ending, it was Clive. His entire adult life, almost 20 years, he hasn't known peace. I was desperate for him to live happily ever after with Jill.
Clive narrates the beginning and ending of the game, as if reading from a book
Clive also has a sidequest where he and tomes talks about Clive writing down his adventures once his mission is complete.
Clive’s mission was to honor the legacy and wishes of Cid, whose name he took to complete his wish.
So he took Josh’s name after honoring Cid’s legacy, and wrote to book to honor Joshua’s legacy.
And at the very end when the sun rises, Jill takes a deep sigh of relief and starts smiling, as if she’s seeing something that we don’t. Probably Clive.
And also, as for Joshua being alive, consider that Clive healed his body with powers of the phoenix, which already stated in game the phoenix “can heal the flesh but not the spirit”
And not only that, his body doesn’t move or breathe at all after being healed. And Ifrit and Phoenix needed to be merged in order to use Raise, the resurrection spell.
droppin this here because I'm glad you made a vid on this game and I'm sure it' gonna be a good one, gonna hold on to watch it until after I get a chance to play the game for myself first. FF games are just on a special tier in my heart that I think having things spoiled for me might taint the experience for me, so because of this I wanted to leave you a note of encouragement even if I gotta withdraw my view for now. Will be revisting later and look forward to it!
I will post this comment before I watch the video. Like you Max, my favorite Final Fantasy game was FF9, hey I even named my child after Adelbert. I finished FF16 last night and that was an incredible experience but you know what, FF16 story serve as the contrast of what FF9 takes on existentialism and determinism :)
Someone recommended u on ff16 sub reddit as i was posting myninsights on the game as a philosophy and psychology nerd. Man, i am not disappointed.
Late comment but do you have a link?
Your humour never fails to amuse, my friend. Thank you for your wise insights.
This video demonstrates why some people thought XVI's narrative was weak. They clearly missed (or didn't understand) the symbolism.
Just finished the game & the first thing I did was search for this video I had seen on my feed.
Amazing video!
Spectacular and great analysis of the new game!
The fucking Simpsons bit killed me. Self awareness is important king. Great work as always
I really hope this game gets the game of the year. I lean more and more toward Asian created games because when if they decide to make a game, they make a game that makes you brainstorm and think about what the game - creators wanted to tell behind their creation. What is the 'Ultima' meaning behind it? What's its purpose? What is it saying? and other questions.
Games that make you question the existence and the meaning behind certain actions and symbolism comparing them to real-life facts are what truly amazes me and attract me to be a part of it.
Nowadays, for example, western games tend to avoid deep philosophical, thought-provoking questions because they FEAR that the audience will be misunderstood, misinterpret and as a result will lynch the game for its negative story telling. After all, the user was so dumb that he couldn't read the signs and or under the lines what the game's storytelling is about.
FFXVI is the game of the decade which went back to _the old roots_ of asking the user through symbolism, and actions some questions that we must answer. God, I love this game! I think it's been 10 to 20 years since we last seen a game with a deeper meaning. In my opinion, _'True Games'_ - are the games that are worth playing not just for fun but for making me look through a different lens and ask questions to myself and find the answer through the game. FFXVI is one of them. 🙏
Thank you, Max Derrat for reviewing this!
I hope to see more videos about FFXVI because I believe there is more to say about this game _'Hidden Messages'._
Amazing video! Feel like i could listen to these types of convos all day, how we interpret our existence through art truly has no bounds and when it’s done well it’s amazing to experience.
i dont have the financial capability to play the latest FFs.... glad theres content like these.... keep it up man... ❤❤❤
You had me at "My favorite Final Fantasy game is Final Fantasy IX." It's also my favorite one. 🙃 Also, I love your amazing content.
I think a lot of people didn’t like that ending as they wanted a definitive ending. Something they didn’t have to get all philosophical just to interpret. Unfortunately for them the Final Fantasy series has always tried to reach the philosophical. Even the very first game the heroes had to beat Garland/Chaos in order to break a time loop. That alone opens a whole can of debate that I think most players never read into! I personally like this about the series as each entry poses a different question, and I think they did it pretty well in 16!
Speaking of fate and all that, I personally would love to hear about one of my favourite stories: live A Live! Definitely a game that’s ending is something all classic RPG players need to see!
Interesting, from my perspective the ending was very definitive.
Clive died, resurrecting Joshua in the process and changing the fundamentals of how the world functions. He removed magic from the equation.
At least that's what I got from the ending. Then again, I'm terrible at noticing subtlety. My mind works with concrete, explicit information. That's why I watch channels like this one to help me appreciate games in a deeper manner
Generally, any time you have an ambiguous ending -say in a film...the Ending isn't the point. You're supposed to struggle to figure out whether one thing or another happened, and THEN realize that's unimportant. It's not what the film is actually about.
can't watch since I haven't gotten through the game yet, but it's nice to see positive coverage for FFXVI amidst all the unhinged hate against this game, and from an actually great content creator no less 👏
Valid criticism isn't unhinged rage, tho.
@@TheOneGreat what even is the relevance of this reply lmao
Your videos are always some of the most interesting to see.
Thanks for the shout-out Max!
Excellent video! I hope fans googling for "FFXVI Ending Explained" will find solace from your video.
this is a beautiful analysis. thanks for helping me appreciate the game’s writing more
First of all. I'm allways in love with your analisis and I've just finished Final Fantasy XVI on the PC and got really excited on hearing other people's tought on the game. My wife watched with me play the entire journey and we've been spenting a lot of time on ouro working breaks to discuss the story. And one of the things we discussed the most were the Christian symbolisms of the game and your video basically answered briliantly all of them. Thank you so much.
I like how you tackle on limitations of material conditions in order to a human achieve free will, because if the game didn't adress those issues It would end up like a mediocre story about how you can achieve anything through the pure power of motivation like a Shonen Anime.
And I think one of the best examples on the game's story showing that is through the rebels in Cid's hideout.
Bringing up two authors that tackle on material anaylis: Karl Marx and Friederich Engels and their theory on materialist dialectic. Cid joins his band of rebels saying that he wanted a place where beares could be: "Free to die one their own terms" and in this world, beares are a slave laber force. Beares are the working class of this game, and as in Marx theory of the Class Strugle, beares don't have freedom.
So, basically Cid's hideout as an independent faction in the game is...
A Comune.
If you take out the Blacksmith that upgrade your gear and the Shoopkeeper that sells you suply charging the in-world currency. All the other members of the hideout are working for the collective good of the group. And that's shown as pretty clear through the first two sidequests avaliable in the game: One of the sidequests asks you to go serve some dishes to the workes in the hideout, and the Tavernkeeper explains that everyone in the hideout earns food because everyone is colectivelly helping with their own capabilities; "From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs", everyone must be fed.
The second sidequests aks you to check out on a woman that was collecting dirt in order to help an experiment that might enable to grow crops in that desolate lanD devoid of ether - Clive finds the girl and says that she can return to the safety of the hidout and finish the job, even though they were each assign to diferent functions in the comunity, everyone helps.
I'm not sure if this whole marxist lens through which I've seen this part were intentional, but this game's writer Kazutoyo Maehiro is a well-known disciple of Yasumi Matsuno, a Game Designer well-known for bringing themes of Class Struggle in his games.
i congratulate you for this beautiful video! im late to this and finished the game a while ago so ill say what i remember. since Joshua was on origin i speculated that he might died despite the heal clive did on his chest. after that he see clive looking at the night sky with clear petrification signs on his hands. afflicted faster than usual. with torgal's sad howl at the moon, jill's and gav's crying in realization of clive's passing. at least that how i preserved it. as a tragic tale with a good ending!
Best video on FF16 I have seen, the game was way deeper than people give it credit for!
This video makes me feel like I suddenly aged a decade. I feel like 15 just came out a bit ago, and I literally didn't even know 16 existed prior to seeing this...
Great video!!
Wooow I dont have words. Yiru explanation is incredible
Been waiting for this video
Love your videos man, the scene with bart cracked me up.
What a beautiful breakdown. I adored the themes and characterisation of the game and its nice to see such an eloquent interpretation of it.
This was an amazing analysis, i’m glad that a lot if the things i noticed you did as well, which meand i was not overthinking it lmao. Great video!!! ❤
Great video, also would like to add that Ultima wants to merge Mythos to achieve his ultimate goal.
Another name for Ultima is Final, Mythos means Fantasy. Thus Ultima wanted to become a Final Fantasy in the end to achieve its dreams
I’m simple. When the first words of a video are “my favorite Final Fantasy is Final Fantasy 9” I pause the video, click like, resume.
Interesting and intriguing at the same time. After my 1st playthrough, the idea of fate and free will is came to my mind at another FF game but I could not remember clearly. However, you have reminded me it is similar as FFIX, and some other game. Knowing this made me more interest to finish the 2nd playthrough. Thanks for the video! 👍🏾
Great great video. This game's world is so rich, so dense. Ijust can't stop playing it (finishing ultimaniac now)
EDIT: Loved Id's Theme from Xenogears! Another classic!
Very good video (like always) ; i have some precision to add about what Jung meant by Self (I read almost all off his work and work myself on it). The Self is the center of the psyche and can only be experience in some particular "attitude" of the psyche, it is not to be confuse as self wich can be attain throught the individuation process.
The first is a center wich produce most than not "religious" experience, and the second is what we attain when we understand and differenciate what is in our own head (fonctions of the psyche notably). In most fiction the story that's been told is a reflection on the process by wich someone is actively or been forced to differenciate the world from himself, and in himself wich is what, and to what purpose ; In this game (that i have not do) the end purpose is to bring reason, that is the capacity to see wich is something and wich is an other thing with words and concepts.
To better understand what Jung meant in his work it is important to read "types pscyhologique" wich is a very important book of his work ; it help to see how the psyche evolve in itself and with the world, and therefore what type of story it tells to explain and understand itself.
I really love fiction in all of its form and if you want to discuss this subject i can bring some stone to the building !!
Keep the good work going !!
Sorry for my French (because i am one^^)
Thank you. Thank you for explaining this all better and more eloquently than my brain did.
i love your channel so much ❤
The "it's Carl Jung" part was just *chef's kiss* 😂 I love it
All hail new video 🎉🎉🎉
I'd like to believe Clive survived.
I'm in a bad enough place at the moment to think he died though, lol.
I was waiting for the Carl Joung mentioned at 6:50
Great video have liked your other ones so was glad to see you tackled 16. Just beat it two days ago so catching up on 16 content because even if you watch spoiler free videos the UA-cam algorithm will start recommending other similar videos and jerks put huge spoilers in the thumbnail and titles. Fantastic game Creative Business Unit 3 has been on a roll.
Coming back to this video after some days, i just realized how much i love the discurse of ff16 about god and free will.
I think its a concept that many people didn't get at the end of the game.
This is why Final Fantasy is the best video game series of all time.
The use of the Xenogears OST in this was so perfect
Wow i didn't even realize what Ultima was until watching this video. This has been very educational
Perfect way to start my day at the office 🤫
Great video!!!!! What song starts playing at 8:25?! 😮
This is such a fascinating video! Thank you so much for the upload! Just to add, another reason that Joshua is linked to Jesus is the fact that he wears red clothes! In biblical paintings you often see Jesus wearing red (which can mean a multitude of things in Christianity, but most likely references martyrdom/the blood of Jesus), so there's another reason the two are linked :)
Thoughtful analysis, thank you for sharing!
Awe ... Great video and excellent work, as always. Though I was hoping you'd have explored the symbolism of 'Magic' (in FFXVI's world context) more within this video.
Magic ... it would seem, presented everyone that had it quite a burden. Not only Bearer's and Dominant's, but even the Fallen and Ultima. The more and more it was used, the more everything that _it used_ became cursed. Consider that Ultima is the 'God of humanity', the Creator ... he/they are not _the_ God though. God did not create humans here. What she created were the planets within her universe, and they are always very much considered *alive* in FF works. Made of Aether. That very same Aether that seems to be the fuel of spells.
Historically ... Final Fantasy titles have often used magiteks to symbolism man's creation from and subjugation of _Nature_ . Their means to bend Reality to their will. But in XVI I believe Magic was used to represent this. Not only that ... but being that Aether = Magic and Aether = God's material to create ... in this story, Magic is very much the _will_ of the real God.
So, where am I going with this ... Idolatry. Both humans and Ultima's race used magic and destroyed (or nearly) both of their worlds doing so. They both used the 'Will of God' to achieve a paradise that only God could create. But God 'shalt have no other gods before me'. Ultima's race destroying the Fallen, and almost doing so to humanity (again?) at the end of XVI had Ultima won. Clive destroying and taking the godlike eikons, before ultimately destroying Ultima. For anyone else using God's Will ... the only result will be Death, and in the case of Bearer's, they were turned to stone. Or if you think about it another way... Idols. Of false gods.
Here's the punchline ... In order to break that chain, one must break free of that will of another. Magic ... had to be denounced and destroyed. That was the only way humanity or any being can break free of the true God's Will and create their own path. Ultima was not able to do so, constantly relying on magic and aether to do the things they thought to do. And as dark as slavery and subjugation of a person is, it had a silver lining. So to speak. Peoples' will evolved and developed over time to subconsciously realize that magic was not good to be doing. And what else resides within the subconscious, according to Jung? Dark emotions. That made manifest. And so... humanity suffered.
And _will_ continue to suffer. Always. There is no spell to cast to fix your everyday problems. You have to fight. You have to endure God's true will. Just to survive ... because your consciousness itself makes you a God when you create your own story, and put it into a book. Just as God had done ... the Bible.
EDIT: Ultima said at the end that the world was dead, a blackened husk. But when Clive destroyed, denounced, or rather _returned_ magic back to the source ... the planet was able to become 'whole' again. With God's Will restored as they intended ... the planet was able to recover and be that which God willed it to be. I'm not convinced the rebirth or resurrection is for either Clive or Joshua, but the planet herself.
EDIT 2: Something else occurred to me. Could it be that Clive's choices were never his own...? Could it not be that Ultima was the foil of the one true God, and that is who went to battle? Ultima was destroying worlds, bending and breaking God's design or rather Will to do so. Clive is, after all, a vessel. That was his purpose. His design. Who is to say _what_ took hold of that ... Humanity's Will? Maybe the planet itself? Or maybe the one true God? To stop what Ultima was doing. Ultima was doing what they thought they had to do to break free of God's Will too, when you look at this way.
More symbolism ... Clive's hand. The one he used to fling magic. The one he held up at the beginning and held a fireball, and at the end when that fireball faded away for his hand to become stone. The Hand of God..... And the cover art. Ifrit vs Phoenix. Is it really just to represent the first big fight of the story? Or the joining of the two at the end? Or might meant to mean Ifrit = Ultima, the destroyer of worlds and of God's Will ... With Phoenix = true God, to stop the collective of consciousness into one being and rebirth a world where individual consciousness is born from the ashes. The child that was born at the end to Edda ... is from Ash...
Magic is still real though. In our Reality. Our Universe. You all may know it by another word ... *Manipulation* . Words can be woven into another's brain just right to produce a result you desire. People resent and hate this. They hate the _bearers_ of such a gift!
Magic in FF16 is very much like mako in FF7. Makes life easier, but it is killing the world. If you want to see it as something different, it is possible. But the environmental messaging is pretty clear. I think it is punctuated by the scene after the credits with the boys and their mother living in a more simple world without magic.
To stoke the flames of your theory, there's mentions of Religious sects in the mainland of the game that worships the earth itself, the planet. Gaia.
@@thatoneLerrydude Is this mentioned in the 'active lore' or with Tomes, or elsewhere? One thing I plan to do is talk to more NPCs during my new+ play through. The NPCs that don't have quests or anything to do with anything other than additional dialogue. There is likely good nuggets of lore info from a couple of them that otherwise would be missed entirely.
Crazy thought I just had. Now that the immediate relatives of the Phoenix-bearing bloodline are all dead, and an apparently magical child, from Ash, was just born right after Joshua's death... HMMMM it seems too convenient to be false. Edda's child is perhaps the new Dominant of the Phoenix. This fact would be in favor of determinism, as the child was already slated to be born before we knew Josh would die, therefore Josh's death was already written in fate...
I came to the same conclusions as you did in this video. awesome stuff!
This video is so fucking amazing. Thank you for this.
I loved every single second of this video
Your videos are always so good!
Im blown away I had no idea the story of ff16 was this deeply complex and thought provoking
It depends on your own education and intelligence.
You can unga bunga this game, going to end, kill boss, and just see it as evil superior being vs humans.
Or you can soak in the lore and try to understand things.
Final Fantasy is accessible to all, not everyone NEEDS to attempt to figure out all things.
Gotta finish the game first before I get to enjoy this video, sir o7
Surprised there was no mention of the tree of sephiroth analog from the fallen/ultima
Oh wow didn't expect you to cover ff16. Nice!
Excellent analysis sir 🔥🙏🏻
A lot of my thoughts mirror your points. What with Ultima being a composite being, I really think that the godlike status he has attained is why human weaknesses and the ability to overcome them are so alien to him. Because we CAN’T introspect without limits. That’s where our pain comes from, but also our ability to empathize with each other and connect. So we have the evolutionary advantage, and can memetically impart a legacy of resilience. A being like by Ultima would have no conception of that selfless connection, and probably couldn’t envision death as anything but unpleasant. With Logos as the order vs Ultima’s chaos, I think it’s safe to say that while Ultima portrays himself as omnipotent, he too fears the entropy he has created. I think the switch from referring to himself in the plural to the singular in his last moments reflects this fear. It’s the source of many promethean characters’ downfall (like Dr. Frankenstein). The conflation of pleasure (I.e. the absence of pain), with meaning. That’s the weakness of a cosmic horror type god. So far removed from humanity because they represent our own insecurities. But while Ultima believes we are doomed because he sees himself in humanity and while we can fall prey to vice, that same evolution that gives way to both reason and faith comes from picking ourselves back up and living for our own principles rather than mere self preservation. Ultima ironically gave humanity everything it needed to surpass him, and gain complete self awareness. In that way, we’re more than an imbalanced Anima, or a chaotic will to live. Due to the similarities between Clive and Ultima’s goals, I think Clive being the Logos is similar to one’s true divinity overcoming a demiurge that reflects their own limitations. Mythos to Logos.🙂
Amazing, video, man! This game is amazing
Despite the claims that FF16 is just a western game with a Japanese name slapped on it, I feel like it is very much suffused with Japanese themes.
I recently heard a theory that the reason why so many japanese games, particularly jrpgs, involve fighting and killing gods is a reflection of a kind of underlying Japanese resentment against their leaders. Multiple times throughout the history of the island, their leaders promised to lead Japan into a golden era where it would be the most powerful country in the world. First with WW2 in its militaristic ambitions and then again with the economic bubble of the 80s. Both times Japan was met with miserable disappointment.
The current people of Japan are living in a post-bubble era were they were never able to regain that glory in the 80s. Ever since the bubble burst, they have called the times the "Lost Decades." Combine that with a dangerously low birthrate and Japan is a society in decline. Who else is there to blame but the highest echelon of your society, who could be represented as gods?
I feel like that (and certain other historical aspects like how Japan was stuck between the USSR and the USA) informed their media. And the common theme of free will might be a reflection of the fact that Japan is a very group-based society where there are certain stringent expectations placed on people starting at a very young age.
I think you're right on many points, only missing the fact that Japan's lord and emperor relationship never disappeared, it simply transformed and still exists in a different, more modern form. However, my issue is that the way that theme is done has become old and tired and overdone. It's been done to death in so many RPGs and none are exactly adding to it in any way. It's just been the same thing over and over again, and it was tired LONG before FFXVI came out.
@@ZerogunRivale When was the last time the Emperor wasn't a figurehead, though? They didn't really do anything throughout the whole Shogunate period. The military was in charge during Japan's colonialist period in the late 19th and early 20th century. After WW2, the Americans allowed him to remain, but they don't wield any real power over the modern government.
I think most long-time fans of jrpgs have realized how much devs overuse the trope. It almost seems obligatory to have the final boss be some kind of evil god. I wonder if that's the case and devs feel like that's just how a jrpg is supposed to go.
@@fattiger6957 That's the thing about "cultural carryovers". Whether it be the shogun, the emperor, lords, etc., there is something about Japanese culture that has never escaped it and there is a subconscious level of fear in the society that's never gone away. I know people from Australia who have said that despite not being a penal colony for an extremely long time, the cultural effect of it has never vanished. The same could be said about the culture in West Germany vs. East Germany and it doesn't seem to be going away any time soon, unfortunately.
@@ZerogunRivale Cultures definitely have memories. The Chinese still have the memory of when their Empire was torn down by western powers.
I do think there is a cultural fear in Japan of losing it's sovereignty, whether culturally or politically. I have noticed that reflected in their media, oddly enough particularly in two different Godzilla movies (Godzilla 1984 and Shin Godzilla)
Thank you for another great analysis video about FF16!
I love this max thank you for taking the time to put this video together.out of curiosity have u seen EXO primal I have a theory that it was sum metaphysical meaning in it. im still working through the game but I haven't been proven wrong yet
Amazing video
9 has always been my favorite since its release. I still play it every year or two in full
I learn so much from these videos.
The part with the simpsons fricking got me !
just beat 16 a few days ago and THIS Pops up? oh hell yeah! i loved 16, so im always down for some more. cant wait for the PC version so i can gift it to my friend.
Wonderful, thanks for such a beautiful insight 🥹
@6:45 😂 I'm extremely grateful I have the entire cross-section of knowledge required to get this joke in its full depth, because I haven't laughed like that since that episode premiered.
Beautiful video, love this game!!
can you give us your take of the wyvern tail flower and what is symbolizes?
amazing video, never got the christian symbolism but it makes a lot of sense!
You really opened up my mind with this fantastic video!! Can I ask which is the book that you used to reference when you were talking about christ? 11:37
You definitely got my subscription click! Looking forward to checking out more of your content.
I liked this game a lot! The themes about redemption struck a chord with me, idk. I liked it.
great video!
6:52 😂😂😂😂 Max will never escape Carl Jung lol
Considering the themes you've touched upon here, I think you'll have a FIELD DAY exploring the story of FFXIV, which was the director/producer's "first" Final Fantasy game.
In particular, the story arcs of Shadowbringer and Endwalker are pertinent to what you've covered in XVI :>
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Joshua Rosfield is actually an angel reaching out, he is far to precious to be incarnated on Earth
Does this dude have book recomendations somewhere? Or articles? I’ve loved psychology and philosophy, but only learned it through videos, movies and games, would like to expand my mind on these topics.