Spoilers for FF4: I like the idea that Golbez could be a piece of or is Azdaja that was corrupted within the 13th. This would have to make Vrtra the Cecil counterpart and there are small ties to this such as Vrtra using a paladin moveset in the trust dungeon, and both of the dragons not being from this world, similar to FF4. Im sure there might be more references to accompany the theory but it has a very solid foundation.
Aye, I can deffo see the similarities between Cecil/Golbez and Vrtra/Azdaja. I didn't make that Paladin connection, that's really cool! The outcome could also be similar to how Rydia rescues the party by unleashing her Mist Dragon on Golbez's Shadow Dragon. So like, we fight Azdaja, struggle to defeat her, then Vrtra comes in to save us by countering Azdaja and we bring her to her senses. That's of course just one possibility. Many interesting scenarios it could play out in. But I'm dreading the outcome. Somehow, I don't feel like we'll come out with 2 dragons, only one.
The problem with that is that Azdaja’s egg, along with her siblings, were born offworld on the Dragonstar before Midgardsormr came to Etheirys. It was sundered by the time he arrived with the eggs.
Pretty sure each shard has a it's own moon like the source did and they said when we defeated zodiark on the source the rest of the pieces of zodiarks on shards were destroyed. But I firmly believe golbez managed to get to his shards versions either a zodiark or hydalean and took there aether before we destroyed the source versions of them..I think golbez is trying to take as many versions of them from.other shards but is not aware that they are all destroyed now lol
>Pretty sure each shard has a it's own moon like the source did and they said when we defeated zodiark on the source the rest of the pieces of zodiarks on shards were destroyed. I checked my notes as well as looked at the cutscenes following Zodiark's defeat and I couldn't find mention of either of the points made. Is this something said by the developers in and interview or a Q&A? Or have I simply missed it? In any case, if you happen to remember the source, please do provide it so I can look into it further.
@@imacuttlefish6832 Yoshi P mentioned it in one of the lore discussions on, I think, the 6.1 live stream. They said that each shard has its own moon and the pieces of Zodiark on the shard moons disappeared when he was destroyed but that the moons themselves would still be important. The shot of what looks like him killing the watcher on the moon with the Zodiark prison in the background makes me thing that he has been to the moon, killed the 13th's watcher and devoured the piece of Zodiark. They established the effects of devouring melding personality and memory. He would have gained memory from Zodiark and the souls in him. Plus likely memory from the watcher giving him insight into the reflections. His comment on "the prison of pasivity" called back to Y'Shtola saying that same word referring to the light on the 1st (deliberate dialogue choice) and the very next line "The irony that the Blessed Damned would be our salvation" That term, "Blessed Damned" likely refers to the sin eaters. I think he's planning to invade the 1st.
@@25xxfrostxx Yoo, I like that theory a lot. Yoshida did mention he wants to involve Thancred more, and we always assumed an easy way would be to have him return to the First. If we have to go to the First to confront Golbez... well, that's a smooth transition for us to go there!
@@25xxfrostxx Ok so this 2nd reply will be really long, I hope you don't mind xD it's just me confirming the source and some idle thoughts I have on the topic. I also want to add, normally I'm not super anal about people providing sources. It's just in this one scenario, I kept getting told this by multiple people (it wasn't just here), yet no one was able to say where it came from nor could I find it out myself so it was of course bothering me more than usual. Sorry if I came across a bit blunt there. When u said 6.1, lore discussion, I immediately thought of the Q&A they did a few months after EW released. I looked up summaries of the Q&A (text), and there was no mention of it, but I went and watched the whole stream myself just to confirm and turns out people compiling the questions were just pepegas because they missed that question and a few other ones too. So it may have taken me an hour or so but I finally found the answer. ua-cam.com/video/N2TWmsce_eg/v-deo.html Here they confirm that the moons were indeed created in parallel with the sundering, and that each reflection has a moon and a slice of Zodiark. Since they specify Zodiark, we can by extension assume that if Venat created the Watcher in that very same moment, then he too would be copypasted on each moon. It's still speculation but the way that scene in 6.2 is set up, it too heavily implies that the Watcher exists on those other moons. It does not, however, give any clues as to whether or not the other parts of Zodiark dissipated when we defeated him in the source and there's some holes we can even poke at when we consider it from this point of view: - The closest parallel we have is Anima. When he was defeated, those towers sustained by his limbs disappeared. Yet, his heart remained, so not all of his body parts disappeared, so even that comparison isn't very conclusive. Additionally, with Zodiark, it's a bit more complicated because Zodiark himself is a very unique case among primals (first primal, most powerful primal, the only primal struck by sundering, the only primal that stretches across multiple shards etc) - if Zodiark's sundered limbs were linked to him in such a way that they would dissipate upon his death, then there's no reason for the rejoinings because his whole body is still connected to him - The Source and each shard have their own, separate lifestreams. So when we defeated Zodiark, his aether would slowly dissipate into the aetherial sea of the Source, but would it have any interaction with the lifestreams of the other shards? - If Zodiark's parts in the reflections dissipated when he was defeated in the Source, then how come nothing happened in the First? We saw through a handful of sidequests, the impact that Zodiark's aether releasing from the moon had on the Source, like it affecting underwater aether currents, poisoning marine life etc. Surely you would see phenomena like that in the First. Sure, he wouldnt release as much aether, cos he would be 1/7 strength of the Zodiark we killed, but the First also has all life concentrated on 10% of the planet's space. As such, if anything, Zodiark's defeat should have a way bigger impact than on the Source.
@@imacuttlefish6832 I found the mention of the parts of Zodiark on the shards. It's in the same livestream at ua-cam.com/video/N2TWmsce_eg/v-deo.html 3 hours, 17 minutes, two seconds). Hopefully the link works. I'm not sure what would have taken place on the shards when he died but I'm secretly hoping for void lopporitts. The translator, Kate, used the term "faded into oblivion" but they don't specify if that was similar to the cloud of aether on the source moon.
Did some research and Anthony Howell is the English dub voice of Fourchenault Leveilleur And Peter Beckman does Golbez This was a fun discussion though Like I said before I don't expect them to follow everything that is in 4 but I'm wondering if Zero is going to be like Kain in 4. The whole switching sides thing. I hope not because that would be a little too predictable
Spoilers for FF4:
I like the idea that Golbez could be a piece of or is Azdaja that was corrupted within the 13th. This would have to make Vrtra the Cecil counterpart and there are small ties to this such as Vrtra using a paladin moveset in the trust dungeon, and both of the dragons not being from this world, similar to FF4. Im sure there might be more references to accompany the theory but it has a very solid foundation.
Aye, I can deffo see the similarities between Cecil/Golbez and Vrtra/Azdaja. I didn't make that Paladin connection, that's really cool!
The outcome could also be similar to how Rydia rescues the party by unleashing her Mist Dragon on Golbez's Shadow Dragon. So like, we fight Azdaja, struggle to defeat her, then Vrtra comes in to save us by countering Azdaja and we bring her to her senses.
That's of course just one possibility. Many interesting scenarios it could play out in. But I'm dreading the outcome. Somehow, I don't feel like we'll come out with 2 dragons, only one.
I can totally see Golbez being Azdaja's vessel like how Varshaan is Vrtra's.
The problem with that is that Azdaja’s egg, along with her siblings, were born offworld on the Dragonstar before Midgardsormr came to Etheirys. It was sundered by the time he arrived with the eggs.
Pretty sure each shard has a it's own moon like the source did and they said when we defeated zodiark on the source the rest of the pieces of zodiarks on shards were destroyed. But I firmly believe golbez managed to get to his shards versions either a zodiark or hydalean and took there aether before we destroyed the source versions of them..I think golbez is trying to take as many versions of them from.other shards but is not aware that they are all destroyed now lol
>Pretty sure each shard has a it's own moon like the source did and they said when we defeated zodiark on the source the rest of the pieces of zodiarks on shards were destroyed.
I checked my notes as well as looked at the cutscenes following Zodiark's defeat and I couldn't find mention of either of the points made.
Is this something said by the developers in and interview or a Q&A? Or have I simply missed it? In any case, if you happen to remember the source, please do provide it so I can look into it further.
@@imacuttlefish6832 Yoshi P mentioned it in one of the lore discussions on, I think, the 6.1 live stream. They said that each shard has its own moon and the pieces of Zodiark on the shard moons disappeared when he was destroyed but that the moons themselves would still be important.
The shot of what looks like him killing the watcher on the moon with the Zodiark prison in the background makes me thing that he has been to the moon, killed the 13th's watcher and devoured the piece of Zodiark. They established the effects of devouring melding personality and memory. He would have gained memory from Zodiark and the souls in him. Plus likely memory from the watcher giving him insight into the reflections. His comment on "the prison of pasivity" called back to Y'Shtola saying that same word referring to the light on the 1st (deliberate dialogue choice) and the very next line "The irony that the Blessed Damned would be our salvation" That term, "Blessed Damned" likely refers to the sin eaters.
I think he's planning to invade the 1st.
@@25xxfrostxx Yoo, I like that theory a lot. Yoshida did mention he wants to involve Thancred more, and we always assumed an easy way would be to have him return to the First. If we have to go to the First to confront Golbez... well, that's a smooth transition for us to go there!
@@25xxfrostxx
Ok so this 2nd reply will be really long, I hope you don't mind xD it's just me confirming the source and some idle thoughts I have on the topic.
I also want to add, normally I'm not super anal about people providing sources. It's just in this one scenario, I kept getting told this by multiple people (it wasn't just here), yet no one was able to say where it came from nor could I find it out myself so it was of course bothering me more than usual. Sorry if I came across a bit blunt there.
When u said 6.1, lore discussion, I immediately thought of the Q&A they did a few months after EW released. I looked up summaries of the Q&A (text), and there was no mention of it, but I went and watched the whole stream myself just to confirm and turns out people compiling the questions were just pepegas because they missed that question and a few other ones too.
So it may have taken me an hour or so but I finally found the answer.
ua-cam.com/video/N2TWmsce_eg/v-deo.html
Here they confirm that the moons were indeed created in parallel with the sundering, and that each reflection has a moon and a slice of Zodiark. Since they specify Zodiark, we can by extension assume that if Venat created the Watcher in that very same moment, then he too would be copypasted on each moon. It's still speculation but the way that scene in 6.2 is set up, it too heavily implies that the Watcher exists on those other moons.
It does not, however, give any clues as to whether or not the other parts of Zodiark dissipated when we defeated him in the source and there's some holes we can even poke at when we consider it from this point of view:
- The closest parallel we have is Anima. When he was defeated, those towers sustained by his limbs disappeared. Yet, his heart remained, so not all of his body parts disappeared, so even that comparison isn't very conclusive. Additionally, with Zodiark, it's a bit more complicated because Zodiark himself is a very unique case among primals (first primal, most powerful primal, the only primal struck by sundering, the only primal that stretches across multiple shards etc)
- if Zodiark's sundered limbs were linked to him in such a way that they would dissipate upon his death, then there's no reason for the rejoinings because his whole body is still connected to him
- The Source and each shard have their own, separate lifestreams. So when we defeated Zodiark, his aether would slowly dissipate into the aetherial sea of the Source, but would it have any interaction with the lifestreams of the other shards?
- If Zodiark's parts in the reflections dissipated when he was defeated in the Source, then how come nothing happened in the First? We saw through a handful of sidequests, the impact that Zodiark's aether releasing from the moon had on the Source, like it affecting underwater aether currents, poisoning marine life etc. Surely you would see phenomena like that in the First. Sure, he wouldnt release as much aether, cos he would be 1/7 strength of the Zodiark we killed, but the First also has all life concentrated on 10% of the planet's space. As such, if anything, Zodiark's defeat should have a way bigger impact than on the Source.
@@imacuttlefish6832 I found the mention of the parts of Zodiark on the shards. It's in the same livestream at ua-cam.com/video/N2TWmsce_eg/v-deo.html 3 hours, 17 minutes, two seconds). Hopefully the link works.
I'm not sure what would have taken place on the shards when he died but I'm secretly hoping for void lopporitts. The translator, Kate, used the term "faded into oblivion" but they don't specify if that was similar to the cloud of aether on the source moon.
Golbez was really cool. I expected garland though for garlemald in some capacity throughout the story though.
Oh well at least we got the awesome Chaos fight in the Omega raids hahah
Did some research and Anthony Howell is the English dub voice of Fourchenault Leveilleur
And Peter Beckman does Golbez
This was a fun discussion though
Like I said before I don't expect them to follow everything that is in 4 but I'm wondering if Zero is going to be like Kain in 4. The whole switching sides thing. I hope not because that would be a little too predictable
Hehe maybe maybe