5/3/1 Vs. My Current Program - VOLUME & INTENSITY
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2017
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In this video I compare volume and intensity between Jim Wendler’s 5/3/1 program and my current training program. Find out why I have made such tremendous progress since increasing volume at the correct intensity.
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"I've never seen bench press numbers this low in my entire career?"
Alright, who let him see my routine.
But then he saw mine
Now he’s a believer
Not a trace
Sounds like you suffer from Low B. You need to immediately get on the Barbell Prescription STAT! You can get on it via the video by that name of Barbell Medicine's channel, edited by Alan.
Guys, remember. If you're already on another program, say 5/3/1 and it's working well for you stay on it until it's not. That was a key point Alan made at the beginning of the video.
The best program is the one you stick to!
@@nomadbound9610 there is wisdom in this comment
He did "5/3/1 I'm not doing jack shit" which isn't even recommend by Jim. This video was hilarious
@@biesman5 why would someone make a progam that they don't recommend?
@@TheLouisianan Jim said that you should only choose that program if you are limited in time, there's no other reason to run it.
So basically if you perform a lift more often with heavier weight you gain more strength. Makes sense to me.
ok so I should max out everything seven days a week, makes sense to me.
@@BT-oj1bn Yeah that's not what he said, but keep being a dumbass it suits you well.
@@erikjlee1 He said basically if you perform a lift more often with heavier weight you gain more strength. What could be more often than seven days a week, 8? What could be heavier than your max, your max +1?
@@bithon5242 I was being facetious. Of course you need rest, but that is diametrically opposed to lifting more often.
@@BT-oj1bn I look at those doing the Bulgarian Methods/Squatting everyday, etc.
Unless you're on steroids (in which case you can get away with training less frequently than natural lifters and being generally stronger), natural lifters need more frequency.
Olympic weightlifters are a good example of this. In order to be better at the Snatch and C&J, they perform these lifts and variations often, along with High Bar Squatting and perhaps Front Squatting.
Hell, I think it was Konstatin Konstantinov (powerlifter who died recently, may he RIP) trained multiple times per day to be awesome at the lifts, including the deadlift.
Edit: after being on The Texas Method doing it 3x per week, doing Beyond 5/3/1 with Joker sets and Down sets with Pause Squats and Pause Benching 4x weekly increased my lifts.
I practice Muay Thai but also love going to the gym and I find that 5/3/1 is a good middleground for performance, I make steady progress while also not negatively affecting my main activity, I go 3 days a week and customize the template to allow for exercises that can carry over to the ring... Great video!
"Your program is not the reason you are stuck in a plateau. You are the reason." - Alan, 2015
"I was doing 5/3/1 this time last year and I wasn't making any progress." - Alan, 2017
Yeah, that shit is dissappointing.
Cggdas such is the pitfall of an all kool-aid diet.
beefsteax I'd frame that a little differently. Alan recently threw out his entire body of knowledge (he literally said to forget everything he has ever said) because he paid into someone else's club and added 10% to one lift. That's not "changing your mind," that's more like joining a new religion. There's nothing wrong with broadening your knowledge base. There is something wrong with deciding this new thing is the only thing now. I've had manybteachers in my life, and one very important thing I learned is that there are many ways to do things well. If your combat instructor says his way is the only way, he probably isn't very good. And that's sad for many of us who learned quite a bit from Alan before he decided that everything he ever thought or said is invalid, because he was already pretty accomplished. New thought in, no room for any other thought.
So you're saying you never learned anything and changed a former opinion you held 2 years ago?
OH SHIT SOMEONE LEARNED STUFF IN TWO YEARS AND CHANGE THEIR MIND OH SHIT WTF OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG
"I'm actually not even a scientist" best line of the video
Keep up the amazing content Alan. Your quality improves every time.
I just hate how people who have never read the book think that 5/3/1 means that you only do 5/3/1 sets/reps and you are done... Where are the acessory templates that have you doing 5x10 supersetting benches and pullups and presses and rows at least two times a week and hill sprints and prowler pushes on the off days? there are more than TEN different templates for acessories for different goals. 5/3/1 is just the first exercise and first 20 minutes of the 5/3/1 actual training.
True!!! Could be 5*20 push-ups or dips after press/bench.. low volume lol xD
So true. I'm doing 23 sets per session on 531. Tons of volume.
Yes but all of the accessory templates have you doing sets of 10-20.
This is completely sub optimal for strength.
5/3/1 is essentially a Hypertrophy program with a very small strength component.
Better off doing one of the templates from practical programming for strength training.
Honestly Alan: This video is kind of a let down compared to your usual standards. The 5/3/1 routine you followed is called "I'm not doing jack sh!t" in Wendler's book - and it is for people who have one or two busy/stressed weeks where they don't have time to lift properly - so he recommends doing only the 5/3/1 lifts as opposed to not lifting. The other templates have a ton of assistance exercises which are supposed to be customized to your personal needs (Wendler does have suggestions though, but if you need upper body strength you will focus on this). Some of them also include adding extra volume. (Boring but big is NOT what I am talking about - that is a body building / size building template which will at best prevent you from losing strength).
Later on in "Beyond 5/3/1" Wendler has made two main-changes: 1. If you are a higher intermediate/advanced lifter you should only deload every other cycle (so every 7 weeks) and with higher intensity than originally prescribed. 2. He introduces "joker sets". These sets are for your good days. Lets say you had to do 5 reps with 85% of your training max and got 10 reps. Then instead of stopping do another plus set with 95% - then 105% and so on until you feel like the next set will be impossible. This raises volume on all "good" days drastically.
Anyway: The original 5/3/1 does have its shortcomings - especially the original program, but you are not doing it justice. So you have found a Starting Strength coach that you like who has made you progress with a new program and that is cool. But why present your old program in such an unfair manner? It feels as if you are trying to distance yourself from everything you have done/said in the past to impress him (or the Barbell Medicine crew), and that is very unlike how I have come to "know" you through your content. To quote you on an old video reviewing programs "Every program works if you follow it properly". There is truth in that - so you have already given yourself the answer as to why it didn't work for you.
Just to make thing clear: I am glad you new program is working better for you. I am glad that you like your new coach and seem to be learning new things. I am glad that your business seems to be doing well and you keep uploading (mostly) quality content. But I sure as hell hope you wont stop staying true to yourself - that is a very slippery slope. All the best. -T
Well, Mr. Dr. Feigenbaum, MD made an article about 5/3/1 and Texas Method were he ended up kinda shitting on both, and now it looks like Allan is just making a video based on that. In the article he based his calculations on a 2009 article and just ignored everything Wendler has put out since. Kinda disappointing when he's supposed to represent a scientific sober approach.
Honestly, I think 5/3/1 with Joker sets and FSL plus proper assistance selection, looks very close to what Allan is curently doing in terms of volume and intensity. However, since neither side bothers doing any research they just end up shitting on each other. I'll agree that 5/3/1 doesn't have optimal bench frequency, but the majority of implementations are a lot better than what Allan and his masters is making them out to be.
yep this is what it is ... train under Feigenbaum, then shit on 5/3/1. I have even seen Feigenbaum troll Wendler's twitter multiple times.
I have never trolled Wendler on Twitter. One of his fanboys tweeted both of us at the same time and I replied to both, but never directly at Wendler.
You can read my article Into the Great Wide Open on 5/3/1. There is no variation of it that is still 5/3/1 that is useful. The core of the program is junk.
"The core of the program is junk", and yet you and Alan are now Starting Strength disciples, extolling the mediocrity that is Starting Strength.
How many barbells do we need to eat to get to your strength Alan pls make a video about this next
depends on how long you cook it. barbells are vegan and gluten free btw so thank you for saving the planet.
I hear raw is best with avocado smeared along the rim for extra healthy fat to gain lean muscle mass
raw lifting & raw eating. I'm focusing on gaining lean fat at the moment though.
how do you do that and where can i find the mike chang video to teach me it
5x5 but only eat 74% of each one
531 was awesome I started powerlifting with that program and loved it!
Good video Alan. I am the same as you spent years training 531 style and this year starting following Renaissance periodisation and the increase in volume and intensity is doing wonders for me
Thanks for sharing Allen. I've seen the same thing in my own training where the upper body volume needs to run at around 2X compared to lower body work to make progress.
One of the most important aspects of 5/3/1 is the accessory work though. My current routine (BBB) has you doing OHP as an accessory to BP and DL to Squat and so on...you do them at 50-60% for 5x10 reps. I also proceed to add 3-4 more accessories per day.
It's working for me (Although I'm not really advanced) and it's really fun. Your week looks like hell though. It sure as hell would be effective.
Stop scrolling, friend. I've summed up all the comments for you.
"You did 5/3/1 wrong"
"You did the old method of 5/3/1. It's better now."
"You forgot to do the 1000 reps of assistance work."
"You said something different 3 years ago."
"You should try ."
"But does 5/3/1 and is way stronger than you."
"I live in my mom's basement and have never been to the gym and get human interaction only by posting whiny crybaby comments on UA-cam."
Captain Dan priceless bro haha
well... some of those sentenses you will find under every trainingvideo on youtube :)
So pointing out that he hasn't compare the program as recommended by webdlernisnt valid criticism.....? Eh?
I want to agree with you but Wendler has literally released 2 books to specifically address the same complaints Alan has in this video.
tjwd wendler says to do BBB along side it literally adding 50 reps.
I'm sure strong lifts is on its first draft, nor is starting strength or any other widespread program.
So why not just compare the up to date info to the up to date info?
I first picked up 5/3/1 a couple of years back and even then it was old news that wendler reccomended BBB alongside it, as the article.i came across where he reccomended it wasn't exactly new.
But he doesn't look at BBB
Alan just pretends you do the bare minimum which wendler makes very clear is only really half the program. And Alan doesn't acknowledge that really.
I'm not a huge fan of wendler pre season, I got results on it with a few small tweaks, but I disliked the lack of pulling volume on it quite a lot. It's far from perfect.
Holy shit, your subs skyrocketed since I last visited your channel! Congrats man, this channel really deserves it.
Love the video format great mixture of info entertainment and simplicity
Yeah high volume on OHP and bench did the trick for me as well. Following nsuns 5/3/1 LP I finally pushed my bench over 100 kg and OHP over 70 kg and it hasn't stopped improving.
I feel like the inclusion of Joker Sets and First Set Last (or doing BBB style assistance) takes care of the problems you discussed. Would be really cool to see a follow-up video.
I was thinking the same. Besides, you have to choose wisely your secondary movements. I recomend reading 531 for PL and Beyond 531.
He did for the most part. He said the problem is the total lack of volume at the right intensity and he’s right. FSL does become a significant stressor until the 3rd week and by then the lifter is possibly already detrained. BBB 5x10 is just too low intensity. Yeah it’s hard because it’s 50 reps with low rest periods after the main work but that doesn’t make it productive. It does very little for maximal strength.
Joker sets are a good inclusion but you can’t do them until the anchors which are only the last 3 of every 9 weeks not including deload and even then there isn’t much guidance as opposed to programming singles as the main work with a specific goal in mind.
Honestly if he was doing 5/3/1 with jokers, then the "Boring but STRONG" template (10 sets of 5 at 80%TM) he would have made amazing gains. But for some reason he ran the oldest most outdated and basic version of the program designed for extremely slow but easily reciverable progress and not designed for the most efficient strength gains possible. It's sad really, because there are some extremely good 5/3/1 variations that work insanely well in the Beyond & Forever books. But the standard RPE training we see in most top USAPL lifters works amazingly good as well. Just wish people wouldn't claim 5/3/1 lacks volume/intensity when they haven't read wendlers books and tried variations that include higher volumes and intensities
@@eneserkuvan I’m the worst dude to ask about 531. I saw awful results with it and don’t recommend it for anyone unless they’ve already seen progress on it. I’m currently running the Texas Method 4 day split and think it’s awesome. If you’re into bodybuilding and powerlifting then I would ditch the overhead press or just train it as an accessory and use the extra day as more upper body work. However Texas method really isn’t a bodybuilding program in the slightest but you can definitely throw in a couple accessories if you have the recovery ability.
@@WolfgangLizana I ran 3 or 4 531 variations over the course of 4 months and saw massive strength losses. 531 is certainly not for everyone. It’s very minimal main lift work and too much accessory work. Accessory lifts should not make or break a program for a young intermediate lifter.
Fantastic video, man! I'm on my own modification of 5-3-1 with...mixed results. Before seeing this video, I was intrigued by training based on RPE...thanks for linking to The Bridge...definitely going to give it a look.
I've been doing 5/3/1 for about a year and a half, seeing great progress into an advanced stage. This video kind of misrepresents 5/3/1 by neglecting the fact that 5/3/1 uses supplementary and assistance work to add main life volume . I personally recommend first set last 5x5. FSL 5x5 will change your volume/intensity as follows using Alan's math:
5+ week - 45 reps at %65% 3+ - week 37 reps at ~68% 1+ week - 30 reps at %71%
On top of that, I would suggest some variation of your main lift for an additional heavy ~25 reps a session. (I like 4x6 or 4x8) Since Alan counted variations of the main lift in his math, it is only fair that I do as well. I won't do the intensity math on this because it depends on how intense you want it to be and this comment is getting long. But looking through my training logs I average about ~140 main lift pressing reps a week, which is still less than Alan, but not 4x less. I will note that my average intensity is still a lot lower than Alan's.
That said, I agree with Alan's points about 5/3/1 not having enough volume at sufficient intensity. But you don't need to misrepresent the program to make this case.
I agree. there are dozens of 531 variations, and Alan did the very basic vanilla variation.
Is upper body recovery as simple as... smaller muscles, less damage to recover?
You know what this means, dude? CURLS EVERY DAY BRUH.
Actually, biceps really can be trained everyday.
@@NumberOneStirlingite My elbow tendons dont agree
@@madbodhi234 yea elbow tendons cant be trained every day.
@@madbodhi234 What do you mean by elbow tendons? Tendon pain in the elbow area is almost always a triceps tendon issue.
Biceps tendinitis is most common at the shoulder origin.
Greetings from the future. Queue Rich Piana 8 hour anthem.
Damn it, Alan. Now, I have an assignment this weekend. That is to figure out what your saying.
A video on just RPE and how to incorporate it would be really fantastic Alan. I plan on getting a coach once I can afford it but I gotta do something until then. Keep on killing it man, and thanks for this good info!!
thanks for the advice about people being capable of stressing more the upper body, I plan to do a texas method but only focusing on deadlift, bench press and row on intensity day so I hit almost all my muscles with just 3 lifts following a texas method programming.
Keep making videos about intermediates dude you rock!
I thought he was saying "train on time" until today
You're not alone
Now I gotta double check, he’s saying train untamed correct?
It's a common newb untamed groupie affliction. Took me a few videos too.
For those of you who are interested in 531, be sure to buy beyond 531 which is the updated program. This book is better suited for powerlifters because there's many templates that have bench three times a week and squat three times a week. It's also a great read.
Much food for thought, Alan. Thanks and Semper Fi
Pricees
100 % true. One of the main issues with the most programmes: No difference in the upper- lower body frequency. I had absolut the same experiences. Great job Allan!
Taking an average intensity does not always make a lot of sence. Having a group of people where the one half is 20 y/o and another half with 80y/o and saying that the average age is 50 is true, but does not give is a precise image of how old the people are. Same with intensity. Squating a 1RM and afterward squatting 9 reps at 30% intensity will give you an average of 37%, 10 reps. The next week you squat 10 reps at 50%. Which day was hardest?
The first day.
I dont know a lot about 531, and never plan on doing it, and im a part of the ss "cult" myself, but doing a set of five at 83% and doing two back off sets at 5x65% will give an average of 71%, 15 reps. Lets say another person does 3 sets across of 5 reps at 72% what will cause an adaptation? The first example with the heavy set could be an example of intensity day on The Texas Method. The other one would anly serve as a light day. The light day, (mabye medium on a HLM program) the first example will proberbly cause a bigger adaptation than the second. Of cause it makes no sense to pick out single examples like this. It only makes sense to talk about one week of training, or mabye a month. But my point is that taking the average of the intensity does not always make sense.
I love you Alan, great video! Can I use this to increase my SAT score, though?
I swear you're videos gets better every week :)
This was super insightful! Thank you so much 😊
I'm too broke to afford free
Chill Out Dude Hey, no shame in that. When I was a kid we were too poor to pay attention.
@@shumardi1 I was so poor, in my neighborhood the rainbow was in black&white.
I was running 5/3/1 for a long time. I was making veeeeeery slow progress.
Now I'm running The Bridge. I'm in the 4th week and my gains sky rocketed. Everyone should try out. The first two weeks are challenging, makes you think on quitting, but then you get used to it.
so what's your review of the bridge? Or u got any better programs you've tried in the last 4 years
@@hariskhalid2323 that aged well! I've dropped it. I'm with a Powerlifting coach since 2018 and I compete through IPF here in Brazil at 120kg class. The best program is to have a coach doing the periodization for you though. Thanks for the shoutout!
This was a beatiful video, thank you.
Alan I love your videos man!
In Wendler's books there are many ways to increase the volume: such as boring but big, first set last and many other options to provide supplemental work to the base prpgram...
Isn't Boring But Big 5x10 reps with 50%? That would drastically decrease average intensity. Remember, not all volume is created equal.
How about first set last - 3x5 or 5x5 at 65%, 70% and 75% ?
Wendler's latest work/book has routines with far more supplementary volume than the original programme. 5/3/1 lifts followed by 5x10@65% or 10x5@70% or 5x5@85%.
Alan Thrall Wtf there are Many other ways to incorporate more volume In 5/3/1 ? Programmed assistance exercises for each week.
illcrosstheuniverse Yes but BBB is volume for the sake of volume. The intensity is far too sub maximal.
For a long time I had a long and complicated lifting program. I was on the ICF with extra stuff, so each day I'd be doing three or four main movements and then accessories, and other random things. After going to the gym for two years or so with this program, my mindset had moved from becoming more aesthetic to appreciating lifting heavy, so I figured I'd try a little powerlifting instead.
After doing a bunch of research on things and watching a lot of Alan's videos, I decided to try the simplest possible program. Every week I have a squat day, bench day and deadlift day. I only do that movement for the entire duration of the gym on that day at an intensity of 70 to 90%. Each week I count together my volume and try to do more next week. No rep schemes, no set amounts, just lifting. I also eat a lot and put effort into getting good sleep.
So far I've gotten to the biggest numbers I've ever seen. When I stall I'll add more variety of movements, but for now it's working pretty well.
Love the creativity. You get super points
Awesome vid Allan! Nothing speaks louder than mathematics and raw numbers!
I found the same thing Alan, increased volume and frequency are huge to boost your numbers. This is due to the neural adaptations that happen in our bodies, since the human body is lazy AF and always tries to find was to be more efficient at the tasks to spent less energy, if we set this stress often and in large quantities, is just logical that adaptations would happen faster
"My volume is so much higher now, if I discount the 50 reps @70% of the training max every day."
I am that first kind of guy (on 531 and I think it's great for me right now) but to be clear: I'm over 40. I have kids and work stress. I'm just getting back into lifting from 5 years off. I'm currently pretty overweight (see previous) and everything is in flux. So the slower progression, lighter weights, and longer recovery really works for me right now. I know full well that eventually I'll hit the end of my linear progression and I'll need to program differently.
Dude this is my first time hearing about RPE! Gonna be trying your program. 🤘
tame untrained
13:14...I'm actually not even a scientist 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Just found your channel. Great content. Well made videos
This is a good video. I made what seemed like great progress with 5/3/1 at first and have been basically stalled for a year. There was an injury in there and other stuff, but still, i should have made some progress. I'll try this stuff out. Thanks for the lead.
Been doing RPE for about 6 months now. Have seen massive results including a 55 lb squat low bar PR from 385 to 440 at 6'4, and am looking forward to see where I am at in another training cycle.
5/3/1 has changed a lot since it was first released. Beyond 5/3/1 introduced a lot of assistance templates, and these templates give extra volume for the MAIN lifts - this is what 'assistance' means in 5/3/1 - compound movements, not accessories. Also, the most recent 5/3/1 book, called 5/3/1 Forever, sells the program as a general athletic program, where it provides many templates for including lifting, assistance work, conditioning, recovery work, and athletic work. It has templates for many different kinds of athletes with different goals. A big part of the program now is periodization - there are 'leader' and 'anchor' templates, which correspond to volume and intensity blocks respectively. It even has a beginner-specific template. Wendler uses 5/3/1 to train high school athletes, similar to Juggernaut Training Systems. 5/3/1 has become more of a philosophy on how to train and a brand with many associated programs/templates; it's not just one program.
Because of the above, I think it's useless and even detrimental to make this comparison video. 5/3/1 is no longer the program that you ran (even though you didn't really run it how it was intended, with all the assistance work). As a result, you're spreading misinformation about the program, which will prevent others from learning more about the programming that Wendler has created.
I am really dissapoint in this video. Alan is one of the best fitness youtubers. alan wasnt even able to find information about program he was running for i dont know how long. He was basically running i aint doing jack shit template (official wendlers template). His data were correct. but misleading. he should change name of the video 5/3/1 I aint doing jack shit.
Can you make a video about how to start training with RPE for those of us that want to do the bridge? Thanks Alan, great content!
The Dacian Prince I've been bro lifting for 3 years, but started the Starting Strength Novice Linear Progression 3 weeks ago. I'm gonna run it as long as possible, then hop to the bridge. I'd recommend the same.
Read the e-book!
he has a new video demonstrating this
Insightful. Thank you Alan :)
Damn, I was in Sacramento last November, would've LOVED to attend.
can you do a tutorial on RPE? specifically how to utilize it effectively and how to find your numbers via spreadsheet.
nineteen twentyone That spreadsheet is from Austin and Jordan's ebook The Bridge that is available in the description for FREE
Alan, fuck the haters. Don't be upset that you have learned new things and are making insane progress. Keep up the good work, man.
Josh Richardson no one is upset he's moved on.
People are upset that he's comparing something that is NOT what webdlernisnt reccomends and calling it 531.
Compare away, but be fair.
Thanks for the number break down Alan i was considering changing programs to 531. Now i know that higher intensity and higher reps is definitely my direction, i have already lost weight on my bench (1 time a week program lol no suprise) not too sad about it as i have progressed on my squat and dead lift, but who in their rite mind wants to back pedal on any lift. Good input thats nice to hear from someone who actually trains hard we know can be a reliable source.
That's what 531 is all about Alan just can't read.
AWSOME video man!
Personally I've changed 5/3/1 with waves. Basically i do three or four waves of 5/3/1. I agree that basic 5/3/1 has too low volume
Marco Perissinotto that's it thought you're not meant to do JUST the basic 531 program.
Thank you for your time
making all of these very informative videos.
the Professor, building bigger and stronger
Americans.
could you do a video on improving recovery.
what tips can you give us.
Aside from the good data, I always watch your videos till the end waiting for the train untaaaaaamed
your current program looks pretty good. i have a question. when you know when its time for a max test(in your training program of course)? thank you.
I have just finished my "nsuns 531", I ran it for 6 months and gained 20 lbs to all 4 lifts. Remember I am an intermediate lifter, not newbie gainz, so I can't complain. I switched only because I wanted to experience other program. But I must say, 531 was not the best compared to all the program I have tried, neither the worst. And it actually works.
What’s the best?
You killed me at "cause EVERY day is chest day"
Alan, I saw this video and I’ve started the program now, 3 weeks in and I’m enjoying it, I was just wondering if this programme will help me gain size and strength, I want to get bigger and stronger, I’m guessing any lifting will make you bigger but I was just wondering if you had any thought on it or anything I can do on top of the bridge to help build size and strength?
Thanks and keep up the good work!
I supplement my wendler lifts with a variation of that lift with 4x8@65 on my 5+, 5x5@75 on my 3+ day and 6x3@85% on my 1+ day.deadlift will be straight leg, overhead would be push press, front squat would be back squat, and incline bench would be flat bench. yes I replace flat and back squat with incline and front squat. its really helped with gaining strength despite the lack of volume associated with wendler
alan once you told that the first time you followed 5/3/1, you had non-stop gains for a year...
Alan maybe you should give Beyond 5/3/1 another read
Or even the first book.
Wait until you read Forever.
Agree that the meat is in Beyond. I love Forever, though. Some of the tweaks he made to the program are great and I'm amazed at how much he does with 5/3/1.
5/3/1 sounds good on paper, but it's not that effective. It's just not enough work.
I do legs,push,pull twice every 7 days with a rest day in between each cycle. I go light on the first cycle with more reps for hypertrophy and then heavy on the second cycle for strength. Is it possible to make both strength and hypertrophy gains at the same time like this? Or am i just wasting my time. Its too early for me to tell since i just made this up and have only been using it for 4 days. I use to do push,pull,legs twice every seven days with a rest day on sunday but after almost a year of it going well i began to overtrain and noticed my deadlift and squat maintanaces were getting harder. (my diet wasnt the issue. (i squat and deadlift once a cycle)
Any reply would be cool thanks.
And Im 15 btw idk if it matters.
thank you very much for this!
Im 17 my birthday was yesterday Im 5'7 and Im 62 kg bw currently running 5/3/1 In two cycles my old deadlift 5 rep max is now my 9 rep max and my technique is also .cut better Im not strong not claiming to be but it worked for me
Benjamin X Are you sure you are an intermediate lifter?? 5/3/1 is for intermediate lifters. If you are still a novice lifter, you should be doing Starting Strength or StrongLifts 5x5, not 5/3/1.
accordingly to most weight to lifts charts Im an intermidiate lifter (my worst lift being the bench but still intermidiate ) I tried starting strenght but made no progression in the bench and dead and my squat and OHP didnt went up that much plus even if it works I found it boring and training for me is the best part of the week not enjoying it was frustrating
Benjamin X If it didn't work when you were a novice, it was your fault, not the program's. You probably didn't eat / sleep enough, so its impossible for the program to work (95% of people who said it didn't work weren't eating / sleeping enough, even if they think they did) , or you were doing other things that were interfering with your recovery (Like doing other exercices, too much cardio, changing the program). SSLP and SL 5x5 are time proven methods that work for novices every time they are performed correctly.
Wagner Bertholdo Burghausen nope I did everything as intended it worked on some lifts becuase I was not as good at them most people that have done this program usually get stucked with the same weights and I was already there when I started therefore it didnt work FOR ME you are completly right that this programs are time proven and I never tried to say they were bad or didnt work just that they didnt work FOR ME
Benjamin X Well, I mean no disrespect to you, but I think if it didn't worked for you, and it worked (and still works) for everybody else, I can only guess you were doing something wrong... probably your form weren't very good at the exercices you didn't improve, and / or you had some recovery issues...
Every novice should be able to make good progress in these programs... novices dont really need specific programs written individually for them (thats for advanced lifters / top level athletes). Mark Rippetoe is the one that says: "you are not a special snowflake". And I think this is True for novices...
Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience, brother. It was nice to chat with you. Keep training, good Luck :)
9:32 I feel you bro
Would you consider doing a video focusing on how you figure out on a given day how much weight to use in an RPE-based situation. I've been reading The Bridge and want to give it a shot, but I'm having trouble understanding how to put the ideas into practice. As always: thanks for your great content!
Hey Alan, I just started the bridge this week. The rpe still feels a bit strange but having done 5/3/1 for over a year now (without significant progress) I do seem to know my rep ranges. Not doing assistance exercises after my lifts feels also a bit weird but there's an extra day for that. Only thing i want to know is how much rest you take between sets? Because i tend to have done my training session in about 50 minutes.
Many problems with this video, your example of your squat week and the percentages you use would be for day 1 week 1 of the program, you are meant to start light and ramp up at the start of the program. Your squat 5's day 6 months into the program would be far more intense . As for volume and frequency, Wendler has addressed this many, many times. FSL, joker sets, customised assistance work etc... There is a reason this program is insanely popular.
Theoretically that would work great but realistically many lifters who are used to higher volume at a higher intensity would become detrained and see a regression as opposed to progression.
#1 I'd have to say is Conjugate/Westside.
Christopher Henry Yep. Soon people will realize that.
I love your videos. Always so humerus
brilliant video
Alan, you should be noted that the 5/3/1 people are doing nowadays is often quite different to the 5/3/1 original. You can address any of those "problems" (intensity, volume etc.) with the new programming. Just to throw an example with more intensity/volume: Building the Monolith.
Lauri Ve could you please link the new 531 please?
Nidhogg check out the Jims forum in Tnation for some quidance. For the complete method you'll need to buy the forever book or log in to his private forum.
ARGHHH I have been spinning my wheels on 5/3/1. Doing a bit more volume after the main lifts but not enough, apparently. I wish I would have seen this video 7 weeks ago... 5 weeks out from my first competition. Oh well. Always funny and informative. Not a lot of stupid filler. You rock, Alan. Thanks for the advice. Clicking on links now.
dustyutubeify 531 has low volume try candito 6week prog. for 3 cycles and after that try smolov jr. but use the 2nd cycle 1rm for smolov jr.
Thanks Erving Jim Ugsod, I will definitely look into that. First powerlifting meet ahead and my goal is to just not look totally stupid.
I did 5/3/1 for about 4 cycles a couple summers ago, although i made my own supplemental work, it boosted my main lifts by a lot. However the amrap sets are so fucking intense, now im running a 5week progression on 5x5's and slowly climbing. After this fails it'll be time to read some books and see the best way to transcend into that Intermediate/experienced programming
Hey Alan,
thank you for updating us on your progress. I'm currently at the end of SSLP with rather low stats.
I weigh 71 kg. 120 kg Deadlift (5); 125 kg Squat (5/5/3); 42 Kg Press (5/5/5); 63 kg Bench (5/5/5); 58 kg Power Clean (3/3/3/3/3)
I've stalled on the Squat and I'm having a hard time with Deadlifts and Power Cleans but I think I can still milk a couple more kilos out of my Bench and Press. Should I try "The Bridge" or just "periodize" my Squat, Deadlift and Power Clean Texas-Method-style and try to keep my pressing movements on a SS-like linear progression?
I was getting weaker by doing a program very similar to the one you’ve started. Went to a much lower intensity and volume program and have been getting dramatically stronger every workout. I guess my point is that change is good.
5/3/1 is not only the minimum sets you do. What about accessories?
I will follow 5/3/1 until I make no gains and then I will try the bridge. Looks pretty good.
He specifically mentioned he wasn't including accessories in his analysis.
He was most likely referring to dumbbell accessories lol.
Chris Adams The reason he excluded the accessory work is because it's not very specific to the barbell movements. It's different movements with different impliments at far lower intensities.
TLDR: Not all volume is equal.
Chris Adams You should ignore it if its unspecific and doesn't have much carryover. But if he did leave out barbell supplementary lifts I think thats wrong.
In Big but Boring you do 5x10 squats and so on. It has carry over. What you say is just wrong. And Alan should have talked about it more.
Sick intro Alan!
Hey man Great content as always. Thanks for cranking out new informative videos. I have been competing in Powerlifting for the last two years and my team wants to get our group together for a tuogh muder or spartan race. If I train for this race do you think I will lose some size or power? It's only a 10K I've ran a half marathon before but I was much thinner, a few years ago. Any suggestions for a spartan race? also the race is Dec 10 and the first meet is Jan 15th more or less.
I had the same results with 5/3/1. I think its a great starter program and it gets you use to lifting more from strength than bodybuilding but quickly you need to move on to a more balance and high volume program.
5/3/1 is only a core, schema - You allways can (and You should) add proper accessories, that depends on what You actually need. If You want to increase muscle mass - use "Boring But Big" protocol, if You want to increase strength - You can perform accessories in "5x5" schema. I agree with You - 5/3/1 is average program, but not because low overal volume, but because 5/3/1 is too universal - it gives to many protocols, options, variants, etc...
In my opinion, there is a paradox in 5/3/1 - to compose full program based on this schema, you need some knowledge... but if You already have this knowledge, you probably don't need 5/3/1! ;-)
" if You already have this knowledge, you probably don't need 5/3/1" finally someone gets it
Awesome content!
The minimimalist volume is great for anyone using powerlifting as a tool for other high volume sports. I'm currently training for an ironman triathlon with Alex viada's doctrine (complete human performance, a really good book!). 5,3,1 let's me pursue both my passions without massively compromising the other in terms of recovery. I do agree, if strength is your single goal, 5,3,1 is not optimal, it's safe injury-wise, but higher frequency and volume is shouldn't be underestimated.
In conclusion use a program that works for you.
Your training is very similar to the training I get through mike Tuchscherer
mike uses more volume though
Mike T is the man
Jordan was coached by Mike a one point
so on Thursday you did al lthe 4 movement ? top singles 5x5`s..total workout time 3 hours ?
Also could not find any download link for the Bridge
Love of the new intro! And the "doctor parody"!!
Looking Christ-like.
"looking"
beeing*
Alans not black
unknown dude Yes. Christ was a gay, black Jew
Or, alternatively, the vest wearing, jihadi-like look....
I typically do my 531 sets, joker set then either 3x8 for first set last or 3x5 second set last for squats, then 5x10 belt squat and if i have enough in the tank some SLDL, then on Deadlift day ill do my 531 sets , joker set if it will be clean, 3x5 first set last, or 3x8 depending on the week and how much is left in the tank. Then some SLDL followed by either a box squat or front squat. 531 bench day + 3x5 and 1xrm bench day. Feels like a shit load of volume and beats me up pretty good. Hoping to get better results out of 531 this time around, with the extra volume. Im not hugely strong by any means, 180kg squat, 200kg pull, 115kg bench. ( since last test) after 3 or 4 years of going to the gym. Sure I could have made better progress had I not wasted 2 years not really knowing what I was doing but hey, still plenty of room to progress on 531, surely
@Mike Hewson can u please elaborate a liitle bit about your 531 bench day and also your military press day.
so my 531 bench day consists of the usual 531 set, e.g on tueday I did ( and this is in kilos) 75x3, 85x3 95x4 ( would usually aim for 6 or so but was beat from deadlifts the day before. Joker set at 100kg which I did 3.
I then did 3 sets of 8 at 75 with a closer grip then finished off with a set of 60 for 15.
Instead of OHP day i am doing a secondary bench day doing 3x5 then 1 set amrap. at about 75-80%, the first3 sets are comp grip, the amrap set the width comes in.
Cant really OHP with a barbell but have been doing single arm press with dumbell to help with shitty shoulders.
@Mike Hewson , thank you so much for your reply.I am currently doing 531 with joker sets and Amrap set and 3x(5-8) FSL ,and doing 3x5 @70% + 1 set AMRAP @ 55% incline bench as assistance exercise on both military press day and bench day .Using this my military press went up but my bench got stuck.My current one rep max for military press is 60 kg and for bench is 70 kg .Can u suggest something to increase my bench?
not really, my bench sucks! hahah, just bench more, wide grip, close grip, dips help if you can do them comfortably. Dont worry about 1rm. Just keep smashing volume and getting stronger. Thats a pretty big military press considering your bench is 70kg! Id struggle to OHP 60 for sure.
You might be better suited to something like the texas method if you're relatively new to training? weekly progression might be better for you than monthly progression. Im no expert just going off my experience.
I actually prefer the texas method to 531 in terms of training style, it seems to be more rewarding in terms of you're constantly hitting PRs, 531 seems to take forever to get anywhere.
Thank u so much
great video, I came up with about the same conclusion when I did the 5/3/1 against my program, just wasn't enough.... think its a great program for those getting into the strength game. just not enough, and as a side benefit when I added more at a higher overall intensity my cardio actually got better too
maybe you should read a few of the books
Sounds like Alan found a program that is giving him the results he's looking for. That is a major deal with any lifter. Progress is tough... and sometimes you feel like nothing is working. At 49 going on 50... I realized that volume is my worst enemy... I can handle intensity but if i over do my volume... i go down hill. So i started a modified conjugate method. Good volume and intensity for me. Is it the end all program? probably not, but i am able to recover in less time while hitting new PR's... so for now... i will keep on keep'n on. Good luck Devil dog... Great Vid. Your editing skills are impressive... much different than in the beginning.
The 5/3/1 books address All this
Maybe you 5/3/1ers might just tell us normal people what is wrong with Alan's numbers instead of wanting us to buy and read 3 books + blog posts + podcasts and other shit just to "understand" a training routine in literally any comment section of a 5/3/1 critique ever.
Manuel Bergmann facts. I ran 5/3/1 for about 8-9 cycles and felt I didn’t get stronger one bit.
@@manuelbergmann9222 Alan here is really only using the very first iteration of 5/3/1 and bringing up low volume. Subsequent modifications to 5/3/1 through the 'Beyond' and 'Forever' books add things like 'first set lasts' and 'jokers', among other things. 5/3/1 is a lot more intricate than what it once was. But it's also difficult to briefly explain in a 5 minute video or a UA-cam comment, just like Alan's program as well.
Manuel Bergmann OK. What Alan is doing is disingenuous because his numbers do not reflect all the work included in the program. Those first three sets in the 5/3/1 template are the core of the program, that is true, but unless you are in a big hurry or you are really depleted by other types of training (like if you are an athlete in a different sport, in that case the bare template with 3 sets only is aptly called "I'm not doing jack shit"), you are not supposed to only do those three sets and go home. That is not what the book says, you would not need a full book if that was all of it. A lot of the information in the book are multiple templates for "assistance work" and that is where the majority of your volume comes from.
I don' want to just give out all of his stuff, but one of the templates which is publicly available on his site is called Boring but Big so since you can just google it I do not feel bad about publishing it. What that template basically consists of is following your main three sets with five sets of ten at 60% of your training max on that same lift. So that straight away takes total weekly reps from about 20 to about 70. Another one is First set last 5x5. With that template, you follow your last set with five sets of five repetitions at the weight you used for your fist 5/3/1 set, which will be 65-75% of your training max. That again takes your average weekly reps from about 20 to about 45, which is more than double.
If Alan actually ran 5/3/1, then he surely knows better. He must be aware that these templates exist and that he is supposed to use them. I find it hard to believe that someone who likes lifting this much and essentially lifts for a living would only do 3 sets of one movement per day and go home. That just does not make sense. If that indeed is what he did (which I doubt), then it is his own damn fault for doing something that Wendler specifically says is not recommended by him and that it is only useful either occasionally like if you are on the road and just want to do your main lift done in a commercial gym or if you have very little time in which case "it might work for a while". But even if he did in fact train that way whether it was for time reasons or if he was just burnt out and did not have the willpower to do more, his video is still dishonest because nobody who puts an absolute priority on strength gains would read the book and then decide to replicate that.
5/3/1 is a well established and proven program that works and is recommended by many for a good reason. To think that it is as bad as Alan says it is for such an obvious reason and yet nobody has picked up on that until Alan did, that just doesn't make sense. I have no doubt that whatever Alan's coach put together for him yields better results. It stands to reason that a program tailored precisely to an inividuals needs and goals and abilities and weaknesses would do better than a publicly available program which is of course generalized because Wendler does not know who will end up reading it.
But because of how popular the program is, it also makes it well worth it for Alan to trash it, because those 3 numbers in the title will get clicks and that is all that counts. He then misrepresents what 5/3/1 is, completely trashes it and when people who don't know any better hear him trash something that according to others is so good, it implies that his programs that he sells must be absolutely awesome, if they make 5/3/1 look bad in comparison. It is a cheap marketing trick. That's all.
@@smolkafilip If we're being honest, yes 531 today addresses these issues, but only because Jim Wendler has made countless addendums to it over the years, because the original program didn't work all that well. I wouldn't say Alan is misrepresenting what 531 is, but simply not discussing the most up to date iteration, he's going by the original template which is still what will come up first if you google it, and if you want the full detail of the program with all the variations that Wendler has added you have to read the books and filter out only what you actually need (Wendler has also written lot of "filler" content, like a gazillion different variations for specific applications that nobody will ever use the program for and which probably don't work as intended at all - don't get me started on the medicine ball throws or weight vest walks, he'd have a very hard time proving how these will make anyone stronger).
Having "been there and done that" I'd say 531 is a solid strength program if you're smart with your assistance exercises (especially by doing variations of the main lifts on the alternating days, so as to increase frequency to twice per week instead of only once) and if you use joker sets as that volume at higher intensities is very important and the base template is severely lacking in it.
When i was benching and oressing once a week and maximum intesnity each day my lress went up 10lbs and my bench went down 10lbs
Sweet shirts. I need a program to follow. I been trying to make my own and have been failing.
Hey, Alan. Are your squat days the same as your deadlifts as far as volume/intensity?