I don't think it's an issue to be able to switch race after map vetos. The ability to play several races at that level is a skill and players should be able to utilize all of their skills imo.
also, this is how fighting games are played. if you lose you may switch characters. no big deal. maybe reynor's going to set a new precedent where if you don't like how a matchup is, "just" learn another race. takes skill
Exactly absolute Chad move. In other eSports people can change characters between matches. Heck some of the team ones will have drafting between rounds. I applaud Reynor for doing what most can't!
Exactly what I was thinking. . I could see Blizzard setting a rule like "In a series - If you switch off of a race you cannot switch back to that race in that series." But I don't think its needed.
StarCraft is a game of skill and strategy - being skilled enough to have a back up race or strategic enough to be able to sire up your weaknesses through the expression of that skill seems to be the very heart of the game - a massive investment of time and practice went into the new skill set he has gained and I think he deserves to be rewarded for his versatility not limits because - it makes the game more skill testing for others
I think it's an interesting point you made about map vetos but to be honest, if a player has the ability to play several races, I think they should be allowed to. Considering how difficult it is to master one race to the top level, I can only applaud a player who can master more than one. Plus the only way to get better against the best with your off race, is to play against the best with your off race. Practice can only teach you so much without the adrenaline of tournament play, you won't truly know how good you are. At some point, provided the player gets good enough, then the race won't be considered an off race. Really enjoyed this series, thank you for posting.
When u were talking about Reynor picking up Terran at the start of the video , i had a mental image of Reynor standing on a podium and holding 3 trophies by himself . Made me laugh a bit !
If a player is capable of pulling out a race swap in the middle of a series, they should be allowed to. Over the years the skill level of professional SC2 has gone up and I think this is another new unexplored layer of skill level, it is very exciting.
Race swapping is a whole new level of skillcheck. Starcraft2 is a competition between players, not between Starcraft races. Players should be able to bring all the skills they have honed to the match. It will ultimately make the players even more skilled, and brings a new meta to the game. What's not to love about that?
As a random player since sc1 myself, I feel you get to pick between random or a specific race. At least for a series, tournament wide you can change races.
Reynor playing 2 races in a tournament is like a pool player using their off-hand in certain situations. When shit gets tight, sometimes you gotta do it.
36:42 The first time Lowko did this I got a chuckle, but now I'm just amazed at the consistency that players have exactly 69 workers and Lowko's ability to catch it and say 'nice'
I don't see any problem with the race switch because it's really a self balancing system, it's highly unlikely that one player is equally as powerful with all the races, so this is reduced to a strategical choice to make: either you play with your main race in a bad map or you play your off race in a good map . It adds a layer of complexity to the game that makes it even more fun to watch.
Lowko - love your stuff! Volcanic soil is usually really dark, not so much red. Red is more clay-like. Trust me, im Canadian and i've never been to Hawaii
Scarlett sometimes switches race just for fun (to prottos), and she has donde it in the middle of a series in a tournament as well, pretty sure she did it last year.
Love the versatility. I think morale is the entire point. He doesn't like ZvZ, so he plays something he enjoys. Because he's having more fun, he's more engaged, more focused, and overall just in a better mood. That translates to better practice and more wins, as well as this switch when need be. Like Rocky fighting left handed. Same reason I play shooters with a controller, I just care more.
30 years ago I was in Korea they had Internet cafe where you had classes of StarCraft 1 I was a tekken tag player but I was baffled by the determination those guys had towards video gaming
I'm pretty sure TheLittleOne used to play as random during the first years of SC2. He had to be very aggressive and the best macro players could slap him down but he had good success for a while. The advantage was that he knew what race he was before the opponent so he could spend the first few minutes building an attack while they couldn't know what defense they should be building.
Race switching - I agree, no issue. Adds a little more complexity to the meta between players. I like it. Additionally - "LiquidLowko" does have a nice ring to it.
Switching is and should stay fine to do especially at this level. To use a sports analogy a switch hitter can go from right to left handed at any time. I think it adds to their ability as professionals
Being able to switch race mid series should be allowed because that demands the player actually be good at both races, otherwise they would be eliminated early in the tournament. It shouldn't matter much for the opponent because they eventually have to play all races on all maps
Funny that you mention skipping the natural shield battery. On the Harstem's road to rank 1 yesterday he skipped it and then got ling flooded then lost. It was an off day and very hot, but maybe it is a kink in the armor for toss players.
I don't see any issue with off racing mid-tournament or even mid-series, as long as the first game is played using the declared race, or there is no race declared at all before the start of the tournament. Switching race in between games gives such a small advantage for such a massive disadvantage that I can't see a reasonable case for banning it, as long as the opponent is informed before the game starts. I could see how race switching might be used as disguised match fixing, but honestly there are plenty other ways that could potentially be done that are harder to spot.
In tournaments you should be able to pick any race (or random) at any point. Some may complain about it, but it would make it better for the fans. Not to mention there wouldn't even be a concern in 99.9% of the games. So if someone wants to risk it; let them have fun, and let the viewers enjoy the games!! *Lowko: currently you can only switch if you haven't won a game in the series yet. Once you get a win you are stuck with it.*
It would require a deeper analysis, but so far i see no issue with switching races. It's based on skills, no exploits. And "nothing" stops his opponents from doing the same.
If I look at them, the sped up animations of banelings are really funny to me for some reason Also great moment of soundtrack appreciation, very nice c:
I like to think it gives a more variable game state, allowing people to switch up their tactics vs other opponents. May set up pros to practice all 3 races just like pros in League of Legends practice many different champions
i like to imagine raynor standing on the podium, getting a gold medal, then stepping down to have the silver too. or to find out which race is his better one, him playing on 2 computers the same time, against himself
Raynor's gonna become the Mick Foley of Starcraft. He just has to learn Terran next. Context for non-wrestling fans - Mick Foley was a wrestler who had three different ring personas: Cactus Jack, Mankind, and Dude Love. He wrestled under all of three names at overlapping points, and even entering the 1998 Royal Rumble three times, which each persona being considered a separate entry. Eventually he was just billed as himself because that was easier.
Would be cool if people switch race more often, if they choose to play multiple they have an additional way of countering other players expected play style, more importantly would make interesting games to watch. I'm sure a lot would still choose to only play one even if it became more common because they are better at it and that is an advantage in a sense but then they could have to go up against someone that plays much more unpredictably which is a different advantage.
Switching races mid series should be allowed so long as each player decides prior to each match which race to lock in before being notified what their opponent has locked in. Imagine "rock, paper scissors" with both players waiting to reveal their hand till they see what the other picks, it's to prevent that. Being able to play multiple races at a high level is a massive accomplishment so it should not be punished but instead embraced, also adds another dynamic to the ultra high level.
I like being able to switch races, but I do think there are potential issues that could come up. if Reynor played against a Terran who wanted to switch to zerg vs zerg then there could be this awkward moment where do we play ZvT? ZvZ? ZvP? TvP? it would need to be clear how to resolve such scenarios i think.
The title sounds spicy!! Can't wait to see these Upd: lowko literally says that this is going to be spicy in the first 10 seconds of the video xd what a coincidence
I think it would be confusing if both can change races and if we imagine bo5 or bo7 and they change everytime for different race for taking the races good sides in different matches. But also it would be cool and entertaiming and as many others here have said: it needs a lot of skill to use the change and win. I don't rly have one simple answer for the question lol. Trying to figure do I agree it to being fair or not to be able to change.
If you want to know who is the best, then the best should be able to handle their opponent switching races midway through a series or do the same themselves and come out on top when their opponent could not.
Reynor : Stop whining. Protoss is as good as any other race at pro level, you just need to know how to play it. I'll show the world. Also Reynor : Alright 0-2, time to ditch that troll race and play an actual solid race i can consistently win with.
I’ve been watching Lowko for around 6 years now and I have to say, he never disappoints 🙏 I just want to thank you Lowko for all of your content, I have learned a lot about StarCraft 2 because of you, and I also got into it because of you. TY TY
I would say allow the race swaps, but make it so that the player has to declare if he’s swapping during the breather between games. This is to prevent someone potentially abusing his opponent’s inattentiveness during the game set up and pretend to play one race when he intends to sneakily to switch to another. Have it be declared and out of the open so nobody can attempt or claim cheap shots.
I want to see a tournament with Best Of Nine, where each combination of races is played. To make it more interesting the scoring could be adjusted to include +1 for winning with primary race (normal), +2 for winning with off race, and -1 for losing with primary race.
In mixed martial arts, you can fight with any number of techniques. Just because you are a black belt in Brazilian jujitsu, doesn't mean you can't show up to the fight and use Muay Thai or Box the hell out of the other guy. You should be able to showcase and use any and all skills you have acquired.
17:39 It's not a problem. Pro's should be allowed to switch without consequences. They handicap themself and force the opponent to scout early. It's still in favor of the opponent. So no problem.
@@marlonsolis2272 why random? like it's hard enough to master 1 races well enough to be top 10, how hard would it be to master 2 races. if you go random you'd have to master 3 races. if the map advantage for races is so huge that you can't beat someone's off race then something's wrong. i think this match kind of proved it. as reynor's off race got stomped on and he had to switch back to his zerg.
So long as the enemy player sees what you play, I would have no problem with players being able to swap mid series. I do think swapping is a bad idea though, there is no doubt you would play best on your main race
I don't think it's an issue to be able to switch race after map vetos. The ability to play several races at that level is a skill and players should be able to utilize all of their skills imo.
also, this is how fighting games are played. if you lose you may switch characters. no big deal. maybe reynor's going to set a new precedent where if you don't like how a matchup is, "just" learn another race. takes skill
Exactly absolute Chad move. In other eSports people can change characters between matches. Heck some of the team ones will have drafting between rounds. I applaud Reynor for doing what most can't!
Is it allowed though? I heard some tournaments dont allow mid-series race swaps because players can avoid specific matchups.
Exactly what I was thinking. . I could see Blizzard setting a rule like "In a series - If you switch off of a race you cannot switch back to that race in that series." But I don't think its needed.
@@TheMagicgenius not sure blizzard sets tournament rules these days. fighting games set the precedent and I think most tournaments allow it
Reynor switching from Protoss to Zerg mid series is like Inigo Montoya grinning and saying, "I am not left-handed."
Who the fuck is inigo Montoya
my name is inigo Montoya...you killed my father...prepare to die
@@mitoroskokoros589 Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
Haha, very good, very good.
PS: if you dont know, who Inigo Montoya is, you are missing BIIIIG time.
@@mitoroskokoros589 watch the Princess Bride. It's a classic. You won't regret it.
Around 20:29...
LowKo: "Let me take a sip of water, one sec--"
Zerg Building: "SLORP GURGLE"
he is a zerg himself !!
Lmfao this was hilarious to go back and watch. Nice catch
I really thought the timing was deliberate. It was just too perfect not to be.
This is a game of skill. If somebody can play two+ more races then let them do it. More fun for me anyway >:D
StarCraft is a game of skill and strategy - being skilled enough to have a back up race or strategic enough to be able to sire up your weaknesses through the expression of that skill seems to be the very heart of the game - a massive investment of time and practice went into the new skill set he has gained and I think he deserves to be rewarded for his versatility not limits because - it makes the game more skill testing for others
I think it's an interesting point you made about map vetos but to be honest, if a player has the ability to play several races, I think they should be allowed to.
Considering how difficult it is to master one race to the top level, I can only applaud a player who can master more than one.
Plus the only way to get better against the best with your off race, is to play against the best with your off race. Practice can only teach you so much without the adrenaline of tournament play, you won't truly know how good you are.
At some point, provided the player gets good enough, then the race won't be considered an off race.
Really enjoyed this series, thank you for posting.
When u were talking about Reynor picking up Terran at the start of the video , i had a mental image of Reynor standing on a podium and holding 3 trophies by himself . Made me laugh a bit !
If Reynor was number one, two and three would you only have to beat him to go from number 4 to 1?
@@13g0man the word "only" is doing some really heavy lifting there 🤣
If a player is capable of pulling out a race swap in the middle of a series, they should be allowed to. Over the years the skill level of professional SC2 has gone up and I think this is another new unexplored layer of skill level, it is very exciting.
i remember learning the bunker rush from LiquidTLO way back in the day. like minimum 10 years ago lol
i feel old now
Lowko forgets Scarlett vs DRG game 2 at MLG Anaheim. Unless he doesn’t consider that a premier tournament.
Ah, you're right! I didn't think MLG Anaheim was a premier tournament, but indeed it was. That was back in 2014.
@@LowkoTV also TLO from back in the day.
@@LowkoTV Dam I remember that Scarlett switch. The power of Protoss
Race swapping is a whole new level of skillcheck. Starcraft2 is a competition between players, not between Starcraft races. Players should be able to bring all the skills they have honed to the match. It will ultimately make the players even more skilled, and brings a new meta to the game. What's not to love about that?
This Reminds Me Of The Times Scarlet Went From The Queen Of Blades To The Queen Of Psyblades Mid Series Some Years Ago.
This Is So Jarring That I Have No Idea How You Manage It.
@@alfo149 It's A Tic I Developed Because My Keyboard Lacks A Caps-Lock Key So I Almost Do It Out Of Reflex.
*King
Man i love how consistent this channel is :)
this game was like Reynor saying "i wasn't even at 100% of my power"
If you're good enough to play more than one race at the top competitive level, you've earned the right to switch whenever you want in tournaments.
Random Player since SC1, my vote is you can switch all you want whenever you want to. The 3D chess of the matchups makes it way more fun
As a random player since sc1 myself, I feel you get to pick between random or a specific race. At least for a series, tournament wide you can change races.
Imagine he masters Terran too. If he's feeling extra confident he can just set race to random. That's extra mental damage if he bodies his opponent
Also the ability to do any opening strat, and making them have to hard scout. I've been waiting for someone to do this for ages.
Reynor playing 2 races in a tournament is like a pool player using their off-hand in certain situations. When shit gets tight, sometimes you gotta do it.
36:42 The first time Lowko did this I got a chuckle, but now I'm just amazed at the consistency that players have exactly 69 workers and Lowko's ability to catch it and say 'nice'
I don't see any problem with the race switch because it's really a self balancing system, it's highly unlikely that one player is equally as powerful with all the races, so this is reduced to a strategical choice to make: either you play with your main race in a bad map or you play your off race in a good map . It adds a layer of complexity to the game that makes it even more fun to watch.
I think it's truly the skill cap of SC2. Mastering and/or playing all races in a world championship setting.
Lowko - love your stuff! Volcanic soil is usually really dark, not so much red. Red is more clay-like. Trust me, im Canadian and i've never been to Hawaii
Scarlett sometimes switches race just for fun (to prottos), and she has donde it in the middle of a series in a tournament as well, pretty sure she did it last year.
Love the versatility. I think morale is the entire point. He doesn't like ZvZ, so he plays something he enjoys. Because he's having more fun, he's more engaged, more focused, and overall just in a better mood. That translates to better practice and more wins, as well as this switch when need be. Like Rocky fighting left handed.
Same reason I play shooters with a controller, I just care more.
I hope I'm not the only Braddah from Hawaii who tunes in to Lowko!!!!!!!!
Shootouts to da 808!
30 years ago I was in Korea they had Internet cafe where you had classes of StarCraft 1 I was a tekken tag player but I was baffled by the determination those guys had towards video gaming
Haha the big bro move of taking first and second in Italy cracked me up! imagine though he does do Terran hahaha
Lowko says "I'm gonna take a sip of water one sec"
Queen goes *squelch*.
I'm like, jeezus Lowko, is your throat OK?
Made me laugh.
You just made sunday so much better
I'm pretty sure TheLittleOne used to play as random during the first years of SC2. He had to be very aggressive and the best macro players could slap him down but he had good success for a while. The advantage was that he knew what race he was before the opponent so he could spend the first few minutes building an attack while they couldn't know what defense they should be building.
39:40 what you doing lowko xD "looking at zerg vs zerg" you mean admiring an overlord lol
7:03 Reynor accidentally (?) lifts his own stalkers.
Damn, I watched Harstem's interview with Reynor just before watching this and he actually spoiled the result :D
Race switching - I agree, no issue. Adds a little more complexity to the meta between players. I like it.
Additionally - "LiquidLowko" does have a nice ring to it.
I love how you knowing Reynor got denied to swap race in a tournament, you immediately post it.
Swift response
Switching is and should stay fine to do especially at this level. To use a sports analogy a switch hitter can go from right to left handed at any time. I think it adds to their ability as professionals
Being able to switch race mid series should be allowed because that demands the player actually be good at both races, otherwise they would be eliminated early in the tournament. It shouldn't matter much for the opponent because they eventually have to play all races on all maps
Funny that you mention skipping the natural shield battery. On the Harstem's road to rank 1 yesterday he skipped it and then got ling flooded then lost. It was an off day and very hot, but maybe it is a kink in the armor for toss players.
I don't see any issue with off racing mid-tournament or even mid-series, as long as the first game is played using the declared race, or there is no race declared at all before the start of the tournament. Switching race in between games gives such a small advantage for such a massive disadvantage that I can't see a reasonable case for banning it, as long as the opponent is informed before the game starts.
I could see how race switching might be used as disguised match fixing, but honestly there are plenty other ways that could potentially be done that are harder to spot.
That's self burn at 27:17 :D
In tournaments you should be able to pick any race (or random) at any point. Some may complain about it, but it would make it better for the fans. Not to mention there wouldn't even be a concern in 99.9% of the games. So if someone wants to risk it; let them have fun, and let the viewers enjoy the games!!
*Lowko: currently you can only switch if you haven't won a game in the series yet. Once you get a win you are stuck with it.*
It would require a deeper analysis, but so far i see no issue with switching races. It's based on skills, no exploits. And "nothing" stops his opponents from doing the same.
You're using some GSL-level jokes on us there with the roomba one
If I look at them, the sped up animations of banelings are really funny to me for some reason
Also great moment of soundtrack appreciation, very nice c:
how are you so amazing at commentating these games! haha! best out there!
If they are good enough to switch I think it adds another layer to the strategy. Go for it!
I like to think it gives a more variable game state, allowing people to switch up their tactics vs other opponents. May set up pros to practice all 3 races just like pros in League of Legends practice many different champions
I Remember scarlett playing protoss against zerg sometime aswell
Game #1 was wild. Elazer (Z) just came out swinging with those nydus worms.
As someone who also has never seen Hawaii, I can confirm that’s exactly what I think it looks like too
i like to imagine raynor standing on the podium, getting a gold medal, then stepping down to have the silver too. or to find out which race is his better one, him playing on 2 computers the same time, against himself
Lowko, please, we all know the red lines on tropical sacrifice is clearly a river of beans.
Raynor's gonna become the Mick Foley of Starcraft. He just has to learn Terran next.
Context for non-wrestling fans - Mick Foley was a wrestler who had three different ring personas: Cactus Jack, Mankind, and Dude Love. He wrestled under all of three names at overlapping points, and even entering the 1998 Royal Rumble three times, which each persona being considered a separate entry. Eventually he was just billed as himself because that was easier.
I feel like I remember way back, Idra got pissed off and picked random in the third game of a match in a tournament, but I could be wrong.
Would be cool if people switch race more often, if they choose to play multiple they have an additional way of countering other players expected play style, more importantly would make interesting games to watch. I'm sure a lot would still choose to only play one even if it became more common because they are better at it and that is an advantage in a sense but then they could have to go up against someone that plays much more unpredictably which is a different advantage.
28:12 Lowko is a human! 😉
This map mos def has aztecs or myan vibes, which ever did lots of human sacrifices, like the mel gibson movie, Apocalypto
okay that first game was nasty.
Switching races mid series should be allowed so long as each player decides prior to each match which race to lock in before being notified what their opponent has locked in.
Imagine "rock, paper scissors" with both players waiting to reveal their hand till they see what the other picks, it's to prevent that.
Being able to play multiple races at a high level is a massive accomplishment so it should not be punished but instead embraced, also adds another dynamic to the ultra high level.
Nice drama top shelf
The guys name is Reynor and he doesn't seem to wanna touch Terran. Gotta love it 🤣
Can someone tell me where do I find the music Lowko uses in the background? Pls?
What makes "a premier tournament" ? I remember Scarlett vs DRG back like... a long time ago at an MLG where she race swapped to toss and won.
If you are good enough to play more than one race at tournament level, you should be allowed to. You earned it.
40:00 Again Lowko.. Nothing comes close to the Zerg themes of SC1.. 😉😋
I like being able to switch races, but I do think there are potential issues that could come up. if Reynor played against a Terran who wanted to switch to zerg vs zerg then there could be this awkward moment where do we play ZvT? ZvZ? ZvP? TvP? it would need to be clear how to resolve such scenarios i think.
The title sounds spicy!! Can't wait to see these
Upd: lowko literally says that this is going to be spicy in the first 10 seconds of the video xd what a coincidence
The coolest thing is when a player choose random race!
Lowko having cast qualifiers before: “I don’t think they actually cast those…”
28:02 from Lowko to Goreko
From now on I refering to tropical sacrifice only as Hawaii
The best Starcraft 2 song is Last Stand. It's not even close.
i think its fine just adds a new thing to have to think about
i never thought changing race during games should be an issue considering you can pick random. is this not part of the game especially competitive ?
Scarlett done it once)
Its an extra Troll that depends on a person's flexibility I can't wait till they both change races mid match
Of course it should be allowed to switch races. Partly because it's the ultimate BM. =P
"Oh, I'm playing you? I don't even need to use my main race."
Uh bold move mister Reynor
Imo the race you sign up with is what you have to play
I think it would be confusing if both can change races and if we imagine bo5 or bo7 and they change everytime for different race for taking the races good sides in different matches. But also it would be cool and entertaiming and as many others here have said: it needs a lot of skill to use the change and win. I don't rly have one simple answer for the question lol. Trying to figure do I agree it to being fair or not to be able to change.
Didn't Scarlett switch to protoss during a best of 3 about 5 years ago and win using blink stalker all in?
If you want to know who is the best, then the best should be able to handle their opponent switching races midway through a series or do the same themselves and come out on top when their opponent could not.
Reynor : Stop whining. Protoss is as good as any other race at pro level, you just need to know how to play it. I'll show the world.
Also Reynor : Alright 0-2, time to ditch that troll race and play an actual solid race i can consistently win with.
If elazer goes +1 attack and reynor goes +1 carapace the upgrades cancel each other out, do they?
No strategy game music will ever surpass Red Alert (2) ost.
I’ve been watching Lowko for around 6 years now and I have to say, he never disappoints 🙏
I just want to thank you Lowko for all of your content, I have learned a lot about StarCraft 2 because of you, and I also got into it because of you. TY TY
I would say allow the race swaps, but make it so that the player has to declare if he’s swapping during the breather between games.
This is to prevent someone potentially abusing his opponent’s inattentiveness during the game set up and pretend to play one race when he intends to sneakily to switch to another. Have it be declared and out of the open so nobody can attempt or claim cheap shots.
I want to see a tournament with Best Of Nine, where each combination of races is played. To make it more interesting the scoring could be adjusted to include +1 for winning with primary race (normal), +2 for winning with off race, and -1 for losing with primary race.
In mixed martial arts, you can fight with any number of techniques. Just because you are a black belt in Brazilian jujitsu, doesn't mean you can't show up to the fight and use Muay Thai or Box the hell out of the other guy. You should be able to showcase and use any and all skills you have acquired.
I think its oxidated iron the orange thing on floor of that map.
I think if your opponent changes race, you should be able to change your map vetos. That seems like a fair compromise.
Loll For a second I was thinking reynor pause to go pee. Never thought Pp means ''Pause please'' I took it for Peepee instead XD
17:39 It's not a problem. Pro's should be allowed to switch without consequences. They handicap themself and force the opponent to scout early. It's still in favor of the opponent. So no problem.
if you're skilled enough to play multiple races at the top level, you should be able to get the advantage of surprise with it.
Yeah, but then you should picm random, not just whatever tickles your fancy
@@marlonsolis2272 why random? like it's hard enough to master 1 races well enough to be top 10, how hard would it be to master 2 races. if you go random you'd have to master 3 races. if the map advantage for races is so huge that you can't beat someone's off race then something's wrong. i think this match kind of proved it. as reynor's off race got stomped on and he had to switch back to his zerg.
46:24 that's what she said jokes don't work in the 'married, trying to have kids context' :p
no issue
the real deal is the chrono icon
Maybe after race switch, allow oponent to switch map vetos?
So long as the enemy player sees what you play, I would have no problem with players being able to swap mid series. I do think swapping is a bad idea though, there is no doubt you would play best on your main race
Theres no discussion it should be allowed. There shouldnt be any assumption just play better then your opponent and you shouldnt have a problem