What's Holding Back This Premed With Great Stats? | Application Renovation (S2 E5)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Today we're looking at the med school application of a premed who did a great job as a student but still hasn't been accepted (as of the time of recording). He also has a ton of great extracurriculars. So what went wrong? Was it his personal statement? Or what?
We edit all of your premed essays! Use code IGSTORY at checkout - store.medicals...
Looking for guidance on your med school application? Our expert premed advisors offer one-on-one support to help you succeed. If you're applying this cycle, consider our packages of 6, 10, 20, or 40 hours to review your application, edit your personal statement, strategize for secondaries, and prepare for interviews. Schedule a consult call to see which package is best for you: mshq.as.me/con...
store.medicals...
We also offer single-session advising in 30-minute and 1-hour increments. store.medicals...
Planning to apply in a future cycle? Our pathway advising pairs you with a dedicated advisor to keep you on track. Use code IGSTORY to save at checkout! store.medicals...
If you find this video helpful, be sure to subscribe, hit that notification bell, and check out all our Meded Media podcasts at premedpodcasts.com.
To be featured on Application Renovation, fill out the application at ApplicationReno....
Our student applied to 33 MD medical schools and had a total of four interviews at the time of the recording. Let's dive in and see what's going on.
He applied on the very first day AMCAS was open, so that's good.
His GPA and MCAT are solid. GPA was 3.81 cumulative, with a 3.75 science GPA. He took the MCAT three times actually, getting a 512, 515, and 517 MCAT score. His thought process with retaking the MCAT was to raise his CARS section score up from a 124. He did get it up to 128 by his third attempt.
Activities section: We talk about how to story-tell for his research, tutoring, and scribing, along with what exact hours to list for his ongoing activities. We talk about how he missed the opportunity to show who he is through his EC descriptions.
Personal statement: His personal statement was really creative, but this led me to feel lost at times. The major theme in his PS seems to be human connection. But I'm still left wondering why he wants to be a doctor specifically. Reading his personal statement also makes me wonder how he might have struggled with interview questions about why medicine.
We talk a bit about his school list and how many medical schools to apply to, along with some details about getting his letters of rec gathered if he needs to reapply.
Overall this is a great case study for other premeds to learn from because it shows that you're not just your stats. Even with a great MCAT and GPA, you need to be able to tell your story and convey to medical schools why this is really what you want to do!
For more episodes of Application Renovation, check out the playlist at applicationreno....
Perhaps we should give this student a break; it must be painful to work as hard as he did only to be rejected from 33 medical schools. Also, he was extremely brave to be interviewed about this open wound, so if you're reading through the comments, my dude, great work and hope you're not too disheartened.
He is unfortunate because his race
100%. This guy is hard working, ambitious, and persistent (took the MCAT 3x after a 512 lol, and each time increased his score). If he wants to, he's going to be a doctor, end of story. Just has to fix the little things.
Exactly. Takes a lot of courage to do this. I learned a lot from this video
@@hughjanus8676 Imagine if he was an overweight female minority. Whoa who said that?
I'd be honest his personal statement is trash ! There is nothing to do with his race
My heart jumped a little when he said “first class you got an A- which is a red flag” wha- “just kidding”
Wow this guy has incredible courage to get his app critiqued like this. Harsh feedback, but I'm sure he'll do great next cycle!
I was able to work with him in his volunteering activities and he was one of the nicest guys! I genuinely think he will get into med school and I wish him the best of luck!
He seems like a great guy.
I applied with a 3.71 and 507 (2nd try, improved from 503) to 5 schools. My primary application was marked complete in early September, and I sent in secondaries in late-October. I received 1 interview and 1 acceptance to an M.D. school. This is was my first time applying.
I graduated with a B.S. in Neuroscience (major) from a top 100 university (as ranked by US News), I'm Asian (I know this seems to matter to admissions), I'm not a re-applicant, and I don't have any institutional action or legal record. I toured at only one school (the one I got into), and sent in no letters of interest. I applied after taking a gap year following undergrad. I worked as a medical scribe and volunteered at a surgical center during this time. Other notable extracurriculars: participated in two medical research projects (one clinical, and one laboratory) ~1000 hours, volunteering (both clinical and non-clinical) ~500 hours , shadowing (three different specialties) ~250 hours , and was the president and founder of two student clubs. My school does not offer a committee letter; I sent in 5 LOR's (one from both research projects, and 3 from professors).
Potential Red Flags:
My GPA took a sharp dive during my last semester of undergrad (went from a 3.83 to 3.71). Last semester GPA: 2.73.
I had no publications to show for my time in research.
I took on average 13.5 credits a semester.
My MCAT score is ~4 points below average for M.D. schools, and about 6 points below average for Asian marticulants into M.D. school.
I was a late applicant.
My secondary application essays (imo) were mediocre and were sent in after the recommended time (you should send the application within 4 weeks from receiving your secondary, I sent mine in 6-8 weeks after.)
Things I did well:
GPA is decent (had many 3.9+ semesters, and one sub 3.0 semester)
sGPA was 3.5+
MCAT retake showed a 4 point improvement.
Personal Statement was well written and had a good theme/reason for why medicine.
I killed the interview (an interviewer contacted me and told me I had one of the best interviews on my date- out of 50 other interviewees).
My personal statement, LORs, and work and activities section were definitely the reason I got an interview. Also, it was not so much the type of activities I included, but how I wrote about them. I avoided writing about my EC's in a matter of fact way, and instead tried to paint a small story of how it was to be a part of the experience and what I learned from it. I was also very careful not to say anything too negative in my application (whether it was about me or others). After this cycle, I can say definitively that MCAT and GPA are not major determinants of whether you get into medical school. I think after a 3.5 & 505, your EC's, LORs, and essays are the biggest factors. Also, I would recommend touring all your in-state schools! Like I said above, the school I interviewed at was the only school I toured at.
Please don't get discouraged, no matter how you think your application looks. If you are genuine person, and have a real passion for going into medicine, it will shine through.
If anyone has any questions, I would be happy to help!
Emperor Mouse Thank you for sharing this. Two questions: when exactly did you tour the school? Was it before applying? After your interview? Also, what tips do you have for a good interview?
how was interview
How can one practice interviewing to get result like yours?
This is so extremely encouraging, so thank you for this comment!
Second Vanessa's question. What did you do to kill your interviews?
though his PS is subpar, I really don't think its terrible. The fact that he got 4 interviews and didn't admitted into any tells you that the interview is probably the issue, not his primary app
Mitali Sarkar My thoughts exactly
School choice list was a big factor
4 interviews out of 50+ schools... No, it is clearly a pre-interview issue.
@@AlR-db2mm What's with you ripping on this dude on multiple posts. Is it because he has a better application than you ever will?
Everyone knows CA is the toughest state and likely 20 out of those 50 shouldn't even have been on there.
4 interviews is more than what 90% of applicants get so I don't think his pre-interview application was lethal or anything.
Bodybuilder X I am just telling my opinion and I am not obligated to deliver nice opinions here. Okay?
About 10 minutes into the video and I honestly do not see the "cockiness" or "arrogance" or "better than DR Gray attitude" other people have pointed out. He has a strong gaze and "sharp" eyes but I do not sense any arrogance from his at least not yet
Yeah I agree- I think people might be confusing his strong gaze for an arrogant vibe
I don't see the cockiness or arrogance either, he actually seems engaged and willing to laugh at himself and his own app mistakes.
renny honestly same I feel like Dr. Gray was unfairly critical of him. He’s usually a lot more gentle with his guests. Made him sound stupid and didn’t really give the guest the chance to explain himself
@@oliverko103 could be racism lol. i m serious.
Yea most intelligent people have intense eyes and people mistake it with the eyes that narcissists have.
I entered the application cycle knowing what my weak points were, and I applied to schools according to that. Did I get into the most prestigious school? No, but it’s a good school and I’m thrilled! I think that’s important for people to realize. A doctor, is a doctor is a doctor!!!!!
So true. People forget how lucky they are to get in anywhere.
Why do they call it prestigious then
Anthony Thomas probably using MSAR and applying to schools that have a small percentage of admitted students that have research it you didn’t do it, or low gpa schools if that’s what you have
Congrats Rakin Areef!!
hey I went to this school with this guy, he was a Student Advisor for me. if you see this just wanna say you were a great NSA! good luck applying man, I'll be going through this process in a couple years 😥
For the person who told him to write, “green light at the end of the docks” I got that reference
Gatsby was pretty pretentious, eh?
Even if you get the reference, it doesn't make sense though...
The green light symbolizes money, the american dream, and his love of daisy...not tears?
@@johnalexandersapp5854 But couldn't it also represent Gatsby's desire, goal, and dream, which was Daisy? I didn't finish the video yet, just curious
Ha Ha, you are they 5 percent that remembers everything they read. Seriously though that was a mess of a personal statement. I got to read a few PS of students that got accepted and that is not it. You can write PS in different ways but it always has to answer why medicine.
I’m an admitted/prospective student and I have to say the best advice I ever had was from a current M3 who said to treat the application just as seriously as your GPA or MCAT. I worked on my personal statement for a couple months before I had my final draft.
Great advice.
@I love cracklins of course. I did also get feedback/guidance throughout the process
@I love cracklins in addition to application advising companies, ask medical students to review your personal statement. I would avoid actual doctors or writing centers. Doctors are too far removed from this process and writing centers will help you improve your writing but not the “message” of your ps.
Hey I know this dude! So awesome seeing him apply for med school, I know he'll make a great doctor. I worked with him over the summer in college and though I wouldn't say we got close, every interaction I've ever had with his was positive! He's a cool dude so if anyone is wondering if he's snobby or anything, I would have to say he isn't. Just my two cents!
Do you know if he got in ?!
If anyone needs a case in point example of how quickly medical school applications becomes an arms race of expensive opportunities to gain admission. Taking the MCAT three times, with concurrent undergraduate students is not financially realistic for many students, throw in a MCAT prep course and 30+ primaries and secondaries and I would guess this costs 5-6 grand before any interview costs. Please don't take this comment as a personal indictment of the student in the video, this is the admissions game everyone plays and he is a great applicant stats wise. When we see so few minorities and individuals of lower SES status in Medicine and then wonder why medicine is such a homogenous group of individuals it's important to think about what resources an individual has to achieve their success in the context of their application. Again not a personal indictment of the student, I know nothing of his background but this video is a great example of how expensive this process is. Best of luck to the student reapplying.
@@tde2019 The MCAT alone is 320 dollars, having all these volunteer opportunities and clinical experience isn't very realistic for someone who works 40hours a week to survive. So his stats are insane compare to someone who doesn't have his income. 56 hours a week in volunteer/clinical experience?
Spot on!! It’s absurd the amount of money that some people pay just for exam prep, exam fees, application fees and interview expenses. That’s before any acceptances and med school tuition. So many mid-low SES talk themselves out of the race before they even start due to this burden alone.
Students!!! If you think you might qualify for the AAMC Financial Assistance Program (FAP) apply early and take advantage of the fee waivers.
Excellent points.
Too bad he is not black or latino , would be easier for him to get in because they are always looking for under represent groups in medical. school. Sorry to say but they can be picky about Asian and Indian canadiates because there is always see I many qualified candidates from that group of people!!!! They just use the great technical skill, no social skill excuse but if his application are the same be and his name was Tyrone no problem .
Financial barriers to applications is not a problem that holds people of low SES back. The financial fee waiver is readily given to those who apply and have financial need. It’s very simple application.
He really bombed his statement essay. I feel bad because it seems like he was determined to check the whole pre-med list. But he didn’t have the sentimental story behind his work
The sentiment part really annoys me-this man is clearly qualified and really wants to become a physician. Having a personality is important but in my opinion at the end of the day most doctors like surgeons their job is to fix you up not what a therapist or a family doctor or would do, treat and comfort you. Telling a “story” and trying to be sentimental is just flowery bullshit that’s unnecessary in my opinion.
@kevin
The sentimental part is just as important as the education. It no use to anyone if you’re smart but lack kindness, compassion, empathy, good listening and communication skills, etc. those other attributes are what make great physicians great. Any person applying to medical school is generally very smart above
the average person but it takes more than education. I’d rather have a 3.3-3.5 compassionate physician than a cold 3.8-4.0 physician. These are people’s lives you’re dealing with so yes telling your story matters and what you learned from the human connection.
@@Lex2034-f7y True true. But this all assumes that someone who doesn't know how to write or tell a story is by default not a compassionate and kind person. That the bad personal statement further indicates bad listening and communication skills... It does not add up that way, at least not in my book.
John Najjar it’s definitely the best way to determine it for now though. Telling a story is the easiest thing, it’s literally just you talking about something your passionate about, something you love etc. If you can write a million essays on class assigned books but can’t write a couple about your life and what motivates you then i don’t think you’re as compassionate and empathetic as you think. Those traits are overestimated in oneself a lot of the times
Idk if I could take this level of feedback omg. savage.
The great gatsby line killed me
The student is really brave!
Personal statement was 100% the nail in the coffin. He's trying so hard to impress people that he can't connect with anybody. This is the guy whose winning at impressing all his pre-med friends but losing at impressing schools. Be yourself - if you're having trouble getting in touch with what that even means because of the pre-med rat race then your homework is to get in touch with that. Once that's in order your essays and interviews will go smoothly. I see a lot of myself in this guy when I was applying. It definitely held me back. His on-paper resume/app are way more impressive just gotta stop getting in the way of your own success.
true but look at those schools that he applied to!
Lmao pre-med rat race .. good one
"Premed rat race" very true. It's hard to think about this stuff when your studying 24/7. I have the same problem. I know I want to be a physician but I don't know how to put it into words.
@@thefenerbahcesk4156 just put down "hey assho, I WANT TO BE A PHYSICIAN. GET THAT FUKIN SHIT IN YOUR HEAD BEACH". cheer lol
If you're really passionate about going into medicine, then this level of advice is exactly what you're looking for. You need someone to meticulously rip apart your app and tell it like it is. Otherwise, you wind up reapplying and making the same mistakes twice. The sting of this feedback hurts for about a day, then it subsides and you can make the right changes that will lead to an acceptance.
My head wouldn’t fit through the door if I ever scored a 515. Everyone and their mom would have to know I’d scored a 515 on only my second try.
😂😂
I love you
Oreoluwa Oladimeji hey Ore
Vigrey Munds Hey Ayo! 😅
Lmao
Shit man really tore into his personal statement lol
Abduallah elsayed Somebody dig this man a grave
Dude threw in an obscure reference to Great Gatsby that was suggested by a friend 😂. Didn’t set it up well
100% agree with personal statement. I had a 3.5 GPA and a 24 MCAT (old MCAT new would be ~498) and got into my top choice MD school AND was the first student admitted to my class (no waitlisting or anything). I also killed it at the interview.
FYI: your scores really don't mean crap. I did horrible on my MCAT but killed it at my USMLE Step 1. Most schools know this, so they focus on your character and life experiences more.
Will of iron. Go man, go! Lol.
Really? Thats a blessing man. You did good.
what med school is it
After finishing this video, I wish this guy takes a couple months to go travel somewhere, get a job at Jamba Juice, become a dog-sitter or something and write about it in his application. It will bring out his "human" side a lot more and allow me to "connect" with him.
I feel like the key is find a school that fits your strengths, so for example they are school that only care on taking the best of the best 3.8-4.0 high MCAT and others don’t care because they care more about you as a person
Doesn't exist
yeah anyone can achieve these scores with hard core study and there are millions of people who have that but they need to separate you as well from other people.
@@sandyanderson5698 He could have easily gotten into most DO schools with this application, but I assume he felt "too superior to stoop so low" and would rather waste an entire year of his life doing nothing instead of attending a DO program. Let me tell you, a year is a very long time to be doing nothing when all you want to do is start med school (which takes 7+ years).
Another good note to take from this, is that interview practice can help tremendously. Think of the interviewer like a patient. You dont want to be nervous or stiff when answering in the interview. When i hear a dry response, i assume the other person is tired. This applicant looks like hes been through some trauma. The question is, can he bounce back and handle another patient after watching one die? I would tell him, "you are not finished yet. Someone out there is going to need you, your care, your expertise. They need you emotionally, intellectually, and physically. So keep going"
As a 520 MCAT (on 2nd try)/ 4.0 GPA student, this was super helpful since I hope to avoid the same mistakes!!! Like a lot of premed students, it's really easy to commit to many activities/experiences due to pressure to "do more" without taking the time to think about why you are doing it and what is motivating you toward your goals. This was an eye-opener that I should spend some time making sure I can articulate what excites me about becoming a doctor and why those experiences were important to me rather than coming across as impersonal and like "application-padding".
Congrats on those great stats! It is good that you are spending time on the application as well! This video seems to give great advice! I am also trying to avoid those pitfalls with my application! Good luck!
He worked really hard, I hope he gets in eventually
I was browsing youtube today and this video popped up under my suggested videos to watch which I am super thankful that it did because I found it to be extremely useful as a premed student who will be applying to medical school next year!! I learned so much from this video and most importantly, the fact that your story matters. I think personally I know why I want to be a doctor but struggle to articulate and show that I want to be a doctor (a problem you point out at the very beginning of the video). I went back to watch the first episode of this season because I just couldn't stop lol and will be watching the episodes from last season and listen to your podcast from now on. You are such an amazing doctor and human being!! Keep up the awesome work and help premed students achieve their dreams! Thank you Dr. Gray!
This is why personal statements/interviews are important. I mean, I'm proof- 513 and a 3.3 GPA and I applied to one med school and got in on my first try.
Tony Stark congrats and good job stopping Thanos
You're Tony stark how do you have a 3.3 GPA
congrats! are you MD or DO?
Angela Tran I’m in a MD course.
@@tylerbrooke98 Are you Asian?
A lot of good feedback from Dr. Gray. The student’s stats are AMAZING but like Dr. Gray said “If you are going into that interview without knowing why you want to become a doctor, then that’s all they need to know to reject you.” The personal statement and comments also reflected more on the applicant than the actual application. Overall, very informative video. Thank you Dr. Gray and to the premed student who was brave enough to do this video.
This critique was AMAZING! Such detail analyzing what the reader is looking for vs what the premed thinks is required of their experience. After watching a few of these i think a lot of applicants go through a dehumanizing change while grinding the knowledge in. When this happens, we have a tendency to want to express that "by the book" image instead of the real side. This is going to help future applicants remember to keep it real and wear their heart on their sleeve a little bit. The experience to gain knowledge is important of course, but there are so many things books can't teach us. Compassion, sincerity, joy, and emotion has to come from within. Its a note of character that stands out most sometimes. Im willing to bet that the "not so good scores" that get in, are on behalf of character
I had a similar situation. 3.75 GPA from UMich, 522 MCAT, 3 quality publications, 6 letters, hundreds of volunteer hours, and more. Took me 4 years of nothing but rejections before I finally managed to squeak off the waitlist at a tiny in-state school.
Joseph F. What was wrong with ur app? Doesn’t make sense why it took that long ur app looked good!
@@mianyewtube2078 That's a complicated question. The short answer is that I'm not really sure.
A better answer, though, is that I didn't do a very good job of "telling my story" on my first application, and that held me back. From that point forward, I was a re-applicant, and my sense is that the bar, which is already very high, is raised every year that you're reapplying. Admissions offices are faced with THOUSANDS of applications, and the job is essentially to find reasons to throw out like 90% of them. When someone's already been rejected for the past 1, 2, or 3 years, I can see how it'd be easy to sort of assume that the schools before you did their due diligence and chose to reject, so that probably predisposes them to assume that there's something undesirable in the application, even if it is immediately obvious.
So the moral of the story, is to do your best to get it right the first time!
@@jsphfullmer1 That's just not fair. I'm sorry to hear it. Glad you are in at the end of the day!
Dr. Gray, I think a resource that could prove very helpful to a lot of us pre-meds is a webpage in which mission statements and other crucial information regarding what each school is looking for is compiled. Just a thought. Thanks for all you are doing for this community!
secondaryapps(DOT)com has that individualized for each school with their secondary application questions and their mission statements as well.
MSAR is that resource. It’s a AAMC product that helps with school research.
We have fewer doctors than any other nation in the world, and yet we still make the med school process hard and impossible. And now doctors and nurses are dying if they continue to die who will help the rest of us. Its time for medical school to open more spots.
That’s a completely false statement you are making there
@@Agtsmirnoff Her statement is wrong, but the US is ranked behind a lot of countries in physicians per capita. This source says the US is 52nd in physicians per capita: www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Health/Physicians/Per-1,000-people. Honestly, the only way more spots open is if residency funding is increased, medical regulations decrease, or physicians just make a lot less.
@@user-zl4ch7ux2n Decreasing the pay of physicians would equate to less doctors. It is rewarding to become a doctor, and those years of hardwork come with a sacrifice. Bad idea
@@brianyi2995 Germany has more doctors per capita than the US and their doctors make less on average than US physicians. Their cost of medical school is also significantly lower. So saying less pay of attending physicians equals less doctors is untrue. I don't want to see people lose pay, but I'm just giving potential solutions to the US doctor shortage.
@@brianyi2995 Read this article: www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/10/25/doctors-salaries-pay-disparities-000557/
I think this guy's weakness was that he tried to put way too many hours to impress the reviewers, which is why he didn't get any interviews. I mean, c'mon, his stats are pretty decent with a high MCAT and GPA. His extracurriculars should be too, but it's obvious he tried too hard to impress the schools. He did nothing else except clinical work and volunteering, he needs to show his personality.
Another thing that went wrong is he completely missed the mark with his Most Meaningful Experience essays. When he marked an experience as Most Meaningful, he ignored the 700 character description and described it as if he were describing any other experience, which is not what the Most Meaningful Experiences are for.
I really appreciate this video!
I was wondering if you could go over the applications of accepted medical students?
so that we could see and learn from accepted applications?
It’s coming at some point! Gotta cool name for it? I like Application Renovation for these.
@@MedicalSchoolHQ Application Analysis
Medical School Headquarters Application Aspirations?
I applied to all 4 of my state schools and got in with a 512 mcat and a 3.97 GPA. The reason he did not get in was purely because his personal statement was terrible. He seems like a smart kid who will get in this next cycle but let this be a learning experience! Great feedback on his PS. He will nail it this time around
Just curious what were you ECs? I have same GPA as you and am wondering if my lack of experiences will hold me back. I don’t have much leadership experience at all. I am taking this year off though and am planning on getting more volunteering experience and potentially a leadership position at my current job
Sierra R I think if you have a few high quality EC you will be fine. My main was being a floor trainer Scribe for several years working in 3 different specialities. I did have some leadership with my community service groups and I was a tutor for several years at my Saturday school. I was not asked about any of my leadership at any of my interviews. I think people with high gpa already come off as intelligent enough to handle the course work but need to prove to the admission committee that the want to be a doctor. That doesn’t necessarily mean you need leadership but just wanting to show you want to learn about medicine and care of others. For me this was continued scribing for several years and volunteering work. At all my interviews they always started off with why medicine and tell me about yourself. At my top state school they focused almost entirely on what my hobbies are since med school is challenging and students need hobbies to help them get through it. They even did ask me about my GPA and wanted me to explain how I could transition to medical school given I had never had any issues with coursework and overcoming academic challenges. Every school is different but these are the ones that mine focused on!
Nasir Notta Thank you for such an in-depth answer! I’m also a scribe in an ER for the past year and will continue for the next two years. I also peer tutored during undergrad for two years, I didn’t realize tutoring counts as leadership so that makes me feel a bit better. That’s interesting that they asked you about your GPA during interviews, did most schools ask about that? Thank you again for your help!
@@sierrar458 I think it depends on the school. Some schools actually interview without knowing your full states. They have another admission member interview you blind so its there when you talk about what you have done. Most of mine were actually like that. However, my top state school was very particular on grilling me my course work. I majored in exercise science so they were asking me why i chose the major and if I wanted to help others why I chose medicine instead of something like PT. From my experience, the more competitive schools will have a lot of students with high GPA and MCAT so it really goes into how you can prove you want to be a doctor the best way. In total that interview was 2 hours long. Leadership can help your app of course but continue working on scribing for many years and even working in different departments helps sent you apart since most scribes work for a few months to check a box and never have any more experience past that. Hope this helps shed some light on what some of my med schools were looking for! I also live in an SEC state if that helps!
Nasir Notta thanks so much for your replies, they’re very helpful! Best of luck to you in med school :)
REALLY great points. Very courageous of the applicant also to submit his application for review in the open internet.
I'm currently a freshman in college and this is so helpful. Thank you for doing this!!
Accepted to upper/mid tier MD school- Just get some decent extra curriculars done and don't lie about your hours like this kid did. Also, answer the question about why you want to practice medicine in the personal statement don't be overly cliché like this kid was. High gpa, good/ unique extra curriculars, good rec letters, good mcat and don't mess up on the interview you should be good to go!
You're a great student. Congratulations. I'm confident that you'll get into medical school, if you haven't already done so.
Aside from a revision on the PS, there doesn't seem to be a lot of breathe/diversity on the extra circulars.
Sports / music / hobbies - anything that might show admin that you aren't just high GPA/MCAT + hospital experience.
Did they incorporate more piano stuff in college and beyond?
Also, should have gotten someone on actual med committees to read the PS & critique. Perhaps the PI could have made some introductions on the applicants behalf.
Since this way 3 years ago, does anyone know how this student is doing? Did he end up making it to medical school? I’d love to see a video reconnecting with old application renovation students and seeing how they’ve been doing since reapplying
As far as the personal statement is concerned, he did not really think it through. He could have focused more on wanting to become a physician and ha it flow. It just kind of jumped from one activity he did to another. 30 secondaries? Sorry, but I kind of want to see how he wrote those. I am a pre-health mentor and I know crafting a personal statement takes time. I hope he did not rush it all. If he did, the essay will surely show it.
For those of you saying that he could have been selected if he was not Asian, he could have put no race and this or something similar would have certainly happened.
yep, the essay was kinda terrible ngl
Damn, you really grilled this student. He seems super nice and hard working. I hope he got in
If he had 4 interviews and 0 acceptance then the interviews could be the problem
That's true! Plus I think if the interview was anything like his personal statement, I can see why he wasn't accepted. The personal statement just seemed so stale and cold and robotic. Hopefully he got some good tips he'll learn from Dr. Gray.
It really depends. If he got on 3-4 waitlists out of 4 total interviews, then the interview is likely not the problem. He just had bad luck
It could be about when he submitted it!
Good point!
you forgot the elephant in the room...racism is the obstable here lol
Really brave and sweet student, all the best to him!
PS- Just to clarify, @MedicalSchoolHeadquarters...the med schools are looking for a story in the *description* of the activities? Is it because the duties will be described in the resume?
Imagine getting a 3.8 GPA and 517+ MCAT and not getting into one medical schoool.
Joe Burreaux ... I would be pissed.
Thats because med school isn't just about the stats. Its about everything else you did (volunteer, shadow, intern) and what you learned from that. What you learn there cannot be taught by even the best textbook in the world. Show the med school what u learned there, and kids with even lower gpas and mcat scores will be accepted. we want humans as doctors, not robots who can memorize a 1000 page textbook.
@@sarahjames927 You can imagine how I feel having not gotten in with a 523 and 3.97!
That’s 20% of all applicants with those stats
@@sebucwerd Did you sleep during your interview? How is that even possible.
I felt like I was getting ripped apart too. Sheesh lmfao
Update: he got accepted
I work at UCI! There is no unit 63 and there is no room 45😂. Our burn ICU is in unit 54 and the rooms start from 21 to 32. There is no room #45.
Big yikes 😂
damn
Actually i work there too and you could not be any more wrong
ackshually i also wurk there and u r wrong lmao xDx xDD
fifaplayer1000 our ICU is 21-32 and east of our hospital is 21-35. You clearly don’t work here.
Such a good video, really helpful in figuring out how to write my personal statement! Could you go over a good example of a personal statement? :)
From an Asian American who applied last cycle (4.0, 521) and still had trouble getting into top schools, here's my take of what are his biggest problems
1. He's an Asian male from California. Triple whammy right there. You're already in a deep hole.
2. The personal statement is disjointed and doesn't answer the question. It tries to be cute and clever, but just comes off as being unfocused and naive.
3. If you're reading this, "Student" from the video, when Dr. Ryan chats with you and I watch you speak, I feel uncomfortable. I get the feeling that you are cocky and think of yourself to be better than who you're talking to. Keep in mind: I got that feeling through watching a video of you. I can imagine if I were to interview you in person, that kind of feeling would come across even more.
- Here's the thing, you HAVE worked hard, yes. But, you are another disposable Asian male that medical schools, to be honest, don't really care about. Schools are all about increasing their diversity quotas, sure, but not of you. They want to increase URM numbers, not ORM numbers. You have to row against the current. Rewrite everything, activity descriptions, personal statements, maybe secondaries. Find new people, professionals, to review these for you.
How did your cycle turn out when you applied?
@@user-zl4ch7ux2n I was accepted to a lower-ranked school, and waitlisted at a T5.
Went to the lower-ranked school and now an MS1. Yea life would probably be easier if I got into the T5, but the cards aren't always dealt that way.
@@CXY96 I'm sorry to hear that man. That's kinda rough for someone with great stats like yours. I hope you're enjoying the med school that you're at and hopefully you get into a top ranked residency!
@@user-zl4ch7ux2n Thanks man, I appreciate your kind words. Not sure if you're in the process of applying or thinking about applying, but best of luck to you!
Yeah defintely because "diversity" means that you just get in because of you race. So not because of your GPA and MCAT scores.
To be less "robotic" or "mechanical" as others say, perhaps the guy just needs to find his passion. Medicine is a part of that passion, but I'm talking about the source of the drive that makes him want to go down that path and not want to turn back. And also, play around with more hobbies or go travel, something that'll bring out his character, expression, and personality more. When we have a better concept and understanding of who we are as people, everything else we do, including interviews and personal statements, tend to fall into place more naturally.
Maybe the flaw was trying to Explain all the Hrs of Volunteering, Shadowing, ext.... in the interview. Maybe it came off as a bit dishonest. I dont know much but just with a quick eye, I cant imagine someone putting in SO many hrs.
I completely understand this statement, but on the other hand there ARE people who actually put this work in and it can look like "fluffing". Just to use myself as an example I have 2 kids (ages 1 and 3), go to school full time (3.95 gpa, with 16+ credit hours per semester at a 4 year accredited institution), work 40 hours a week at one job, and 10-20 on weekends at another, and am also involved with a research project (only 2 mornings of the week). I maybe average 3-5 hours asleep, and I dont do all of these things because I want to per say (some of it to support my family), but it is definitely possible! It's a bit daunting to put all of that down though, for the exact reason this guy says (not that he's wrong, I know if I read an application like this I would think the exact same thing).
We also have to remember that this isnt necessarily Monday - Friday. Weekends count too. So its not that impossible to spend 60 hours a week doing something
@@yasmanybaez477 60 hrs a week, plus regular school load, plus sleeping time, plus all the rest of 1000000 hrs of volunteer, exct. lol okay good luck with that. Dr called him out for a reason lol. he just whent soft cuz of the camera
RegularJoe doctor mentioned he graduated then did those hours
@@yasmanybaez477 Yes we know, I gusse Dr.Ryans suspicion is less than your expert point of view!! Thanks expert.
Hey Dr. Gray, you mentioned the thing about UC Riverside was focusing heavily on accepting students who want to serve "inland" students. How can we find specifically find out information like this about other medical schools, especially if it doesn't seem to be clearly stated in their mission statement?
MSAR can be helpful. If you look at UC riverside specifically, last cycle they accepted ZERO out of state applicants, which gives you a big hint that they only want local students who are willing to stay local.
this man is hilarious in the most eloquent way
This video was amazing. Thank you for all these incredible contend.
Yeah. 3.99gpa 523 mcat and a veteran. Cant seem to get in
Wait are you serious?
Either you got that GPA from a diploma mill or you forgot to mention you were a veteran. No way you didn't get in wth, what'd you do?
Guys, I'm positive this guy is just joking.
Yeah sarcasism. For veterans its a bit more simple. We are not viewed as nerds...
Absolutely a lie
hats off to you for doing this. I hope you hear good news soon!!!!
Checked his major and that’s exactly the major I applied for transfer at UCLA maybe I will go to davis lol. On a serious note as a psych major I’m kinda appalled he didn’t know how to write a good statement. And glad this guy can give great feedback could have saved the time and go to a pre-health advisor. Also wait.. this guy didn’t go to his professors for letters of recommendations that mostly likely hurt him over everything else. I hope he kept good working relations with those professors college is all about networking, those professors being able to vouch for you goes very far.
Hi really hate that and how Dr. Gray told him he's too ambitious. It's a common technique teachers use with Asian students to explain why they don't qualify for things. Applying as an Asian is extremely competitive due to the large applicant pool. He has great stats, which would allow him to apply to those top schools. After reviewing the personal statement, Dr. Gray could have simply said something along the lines of "The weaknesses in your personal statement would make it hard to be a stand out applying to those schools" which would have gotten the point across. I'm not so much microanalyzing this video, but pointing out a common theme I've noticed in my own experience and other Asian applicants getting feedback applying for any kind of opportunity.
I just got a "recommend with reservation" by my committee today. Even after 54 credits of a postbac with A's in each of those classes. Scared if I should submit with that letter tho...
Did they provide a reason for the reservation?
@@kristengibbons6616 they said it was inconsistency in my grades.. from my undergrad. I basically reinvented myself but I guess it wasn't enough for their committee (3.19 to a 3.44 with a 4.0 DYI postbac ) :(
Blue Q If I were you I would NOT use that letter from the committee. Luckily, through Interfolio you can see which school sees what. Some may be the committee letter, others may see other letters that are not committee letters.
It is $48 per year but totally worth it.
Unless the med school you're applying to requires a committee letter, then you could probably use apply with individual recommendation letters and avoid that mess. I've heard of people who applied without a committee letter and got into med school. I would definitely check out the school websites requirements and maybe even call some admissions offices to ask about their requirements.
Hey, I am a current medical student. Please take what I say with a grain of salt, but here is what I have heard. From my understanding, it is not absolutely necessary to submit that letter. I remember how my TA told me how he got accepted into Northwestern's Medical school (Fienberg) and they asked him why he did not have a committee letter (since our school offered it), he apparently said "I did not think I needed one." He also ended up getting accepted there.
I want to hear where he is now in this application cycle
Dr. Gray's critique of this guy's PS is freaking hilarious.
Really enjoying these feedback by dr. Gray. Lookin forward to get mine reviewed when ready and I know it will be one of these critique that will make the audience laugh lol
He seems very interlligent and his stats are amazing but the personal statement was terrible .. It’s hard to believe he wrote this
savage but true, lmao. simple is often better (than this example at least). they spend 2 minutes skimming our PS's, so know your audience. =]
the personal statement strikes again
“Tell me the story of little Timmy” 🤣🤣
you laugh but this is important. my mom grills me on this, she is right. Always right!
His personal statement was too weak.
Still trying to figure out how getting bit by a lab mouse "resonates" with people LOL
LMFAOOO
David G same 😂
David G Well i guess it shows that you had fun doing research and it wasn’t just some check list activity. Idk
Because some of us can relate to that unfortunately 🙃
Lol you don’t have to work in a lab to have fun hearing a story about an experiment going awry and causing you to struggle in a ridiculous circumstance. The novelty is what would make it a fun story ... how many people can say they got bit by a lab mouse?
@MedicalSchoolHeadquarters or anyone else
A question about @10:20:
When you put the future date of expected activity, do you also include the hour you expect to do, or do you only include hours that you have already done? I wanted to make sure haha
I feel conflicted about the research advice. For those trying to become physician scientists, wouldn't it be good to note down all your responsibilities in the 700ch? If we had more space that would be great for a story, but if you had significant contributions that stand out relative to typical interns, wouldn't describing those show a lot about you?
It's astonishing to me that he was not able to get in with those stats. I'm definitely thinking that the personal statement and the interviews were the issues! I feel really bad that he applied to 33 with no acceptances! I am applying to 22, so it makes me want to add more schools to my list, even though that would not help me very much! I hope he takes your advice and fixes his application and interview issues!
I applied with a 3.71 and 507 (2nd try, improved from 503) to 5 schools. My primary application was marked complete in early September, and I sent in secondaries in late-October. I received 1 interview and 1 acceptance to an M.D. school. This is was my first time applying.
I graduated with a B.S. in Neuroscience (major) from a top 100 university (as ranked by US News), I'm Asian (I know this seems to matter to admissions), I'm not a re-applicant, and I don't have any institutional action or legal record. I toured at only one school (the one I got into), and sent in no letters of interest. I applied after taking a gap year following undergrad. I worked as a medical scribe and volunteered at a surgical center during this time. Other notable extracurriculars: participated in two medical research projects (one clinical, and one laboratory) ~1000 hours, volunteering (both clinical and non-clinical) ~500 hours , shadowing (three different specialties) ~250 hours , and was the president and founder of two student clubs. My school does not offer a committee letter; I sent in 5 LOR's (one from both research projects, and 3 from professors).
Potential Red Flags:
My GPA took a sharp dive during my last semester of undergrad (went from a 3.83 to 3.71). Last semester GPA: 2.73.
I had no publications to show for my time in research.
My MCAT score is ~4 points below average for M.D. schools, and about 6 points below average for Asian marticulants into M.D. school.
I was a late applicant.
My secondary application essays were very mediocre and were sent in after the recommended time (you should send the application within 4 weeks from receiving your secondary, I sent mine in 6-8 weeks after.)
Things I did well:
GPA is decent (had many 3.9+ semesters, and one sub 3.0 semester)
sGPA was 3.5+
MCAT retake showed a 4 point improvement.
Personal Statement was well written and had a good theme/reason for why medicine.
Absolutely killed the interview
My personal statement, LORs, and work and activities section were definitely the reason I got an interview. Also, it was not so much the type of activities I included but how I wrote about them.
I also went in to my interview (which was conducted as a MMI), really well prepared. I'd be happy to share my resources if you want.
Let me know if you have any questions or need any advice!
As a Dual Enrolled high school senior sealing off an associate’s degree & high school diploma, what can be recommended to me in my journey to medicine?
Focus on grades. Get experiences to make sure you’re sure you want to be a doc!
He worked hard, he deserves to get it.
I'm surprised he didn't get his personal statement read by a ton of people because that easily could have been fixed.
i must say that i have met people who got in with below 3.0 and less than a 500 mcat. it really really really depends on how genuine you sound. THIS GUY SEEMS AWESOME THOUGH! i feel like dr. gray was a bit too harsh but i dont think he meant it that way. this guy will get in for sure! he seems so so kind!
Why didn't Dr. Gray comment on the fact he did not utilize the 700 characters "experience description" for each of his most meaningful experiences? That is a lot of space to write and leave an impression. That was likely a big red flag.
Hello! I was recently just accepted and my stats were quite low - i’d love to talk about my story if it would help somebody along the way!
U got a discord
What were your stats if you don't mind me asking? I'm applying this cycle and I feel like my stats are too low and I won't get in anywhere
So for hours, we are able to put hours that we PLAN on completing? This would be a great relief with current volunteering and clinical experience that I have scheduled for a while.
3.44 gpa 493 MCAT didn’t apply for 2 years will retake MCAT this summer and apply
What did you do to strengthen your application to compensate for the GPA? Just wondering
You need to do some SMP or post bacc. Your GPA and MCAT is shyte
Look into osteopathic schools. You will get in no problem
@@sunnydays405 I am a research assistant at medical school research lab, I am currently doing a scribe position for free clinic and I've done research in undergraduate and volunteered at a hospital for 60 hours, I was a patient companion for ~1 semester.
@@jays5926 I am trying to get in osteopathic schools actually, but I am gonna retake the mcat. I did pretty good in the bio and chemistry but did just terrible in the cars and psy&soc
@@siroomar4711 Use the Reddit MCAT site and the Khan Academy Psych Sociology notes in the sidebar. Make sure to do a lot of timed practice tests and thoroughly review your content weaknesses. If you mix in practice material from third party tests and AAMC then you will see your score increase over 500 for sure. I was able to raise my mcat by 12 points with these methods.
Hi I'm 13 I am not in med school but just in middle school I look the steps of becoming a doctor like I'm in med school and all this hard work will pay off when I get in residency. I want to become a Radiologist wish me good luck thanks everyone have a great early 2021 thx
Could you make a video about applicants with a Ph.D. in STEM and things they should highlight in their application? Looking to enroll after I finish grad school in 2022.
That'll be cool to see. I have a classmate that did his PhD in immunology prior to starting med school. The biggest hurdle you'll have to get over is:
1) how did you figure out you wanted to do medicine?
2) why wasn't your PhD enough?
3) did you do any clinica/clinical-related activities while in grad school?
I think if you can clearly explain those points of conjectures in your application, your PhD should actually help you a lot. You'll go into a med school program older, more mature, proving that you can stay committed for a solid period of time and can perform on a graduate level successfully. The cards are in your favor if you play them right.
DaKuawnDoesScience All fair questions. To be honest, I knew I wanted to do medicine before I started grad school, but my journey leading up to that was....rough. I realized that this would be a better path for me (albeit, ac longer one), as my goal is to become a physician-scientist and engage in pathology-driven biomarker research. I don’t have clinical experience; rather, my research is in proteomics/metabolomics with the intent of developing novel biotherapeutic initiatives that can be used in a clinical setting. A bit of a long shot, but my hope is to convey a story that shows my passion for wanting to practice benchtop to bedside medicine.
@@willgazlay5711 , I can empathize with the physician-scientist desire (being that I am currently an MD/PhD student 😂). I think as long as you are upfront and honest you should be fine! Many of the best physician-scientists that I have met trained in the same way that you have. And tbh the time spent doing things the way you are isn't that big of a difference. I would just make sure you get some level of clinical exposure because when I was applying, lack of shadowing hours raised a lot of red flags where some schools questioned my desire to become a physician, but acknowledged my passion for science due to my extensive research portfolio.
@@DaKuawn Thank you so much for your words of advice! It's honestly hard to find people who have gone through both tracks (neither is easy) who can provide a more comprehensive perspective so it's refreshing to finally hear from someone going through the process. I've been trying to get involved with clinical research to incorporate into my dissertation, but I go to school in Boston and all the hospitals are in bed with the likes of Harvard, Tufts, and MIT. I cannot say that I blame them, but it certainly makes it more challenging to build that clinical portfolio that I'm sure will raise the red flags you experienced when I go to apply. Praying that I keep my GPA high enough and crush the MCAT so that they gloss over that section when reading my application lol
@@willgazlay5711 , 100%. There aren't a lot of physician scientists, but it's amazing that once you break in, it's like you magically gain access to them by the dozens. They definitely aren't going to gloss over that aspect of your application, so if you don't happen to at least get a few hours before applying just be upfront and honest about the difficulty in setting up those opportunities (maybe ask your PI/advisor for some connects to the hospital).
1)Even if you can't work it into your dissertation work, having 3 hours in the clinic once or twice per month will make a HUGE difference.
2) of you can't get the shadowing hours, you should try to maintain volunteering hours in anything you enjoy. If you are able to show any level of giving without receiving, med school loves seeing that you are able to sacrifice for others.
I really hope you take the MCAT seriously, it can be a beast of a test if not studied for properly (I would even suggest investing in a prep course if you can afford it). Obviously, you're very intelligent because you ate finishing up your PhD. I really hope to see you succeed man! Good luck.
When he said "You got an A-, that's a red flag", my heart crashed through the floor, that hit too close to home💀😂
Ha
Did he only apply to Ivy Leagues or top ranked schools? Bc if he did, they can’t take everyone. I’m sure everyone applying to top schools regardless of race have top tier scores like him. It doesn’t seem like the rest of his application can set him apart from them. There are so many great med schools in this country, not everyone has to go to a top 30 school. Maybe if he wasn’t too picky, it would have worked out.
Good luck to him! Hope he gets in.
Dr. Gray what camera/camcorder are you using as webcam? It looks great!
If I had to make any guesses. It seems like this guy might have had parents who pushed him to become a doctor, and now he doesn’t really have a meaningful reason to become one. He knows he’s smart, and he really set the bar high, but he can’t forget that admissions committees from these top tier schools are intelligent enough to sniff out fluff. I’m not trying to be mean to the man, but I hope this guy achieves his true dreams, and I mean TRUE passions, not anyone else’s, whatever it may be.
Something that kind of struck me was at 28:20 when he said, "If I were to do this again", and "work on my personal statement a little more". This came off kinda arrogant like he wasn't really listening to the advice. If it was just bad wording on his end (which we all do) and not being arrogant, it sounds like he doesn't actually want to be a physician. Especially reading the descriptions and personal statement it comes off like he did all this research, healthcare experience, and hours just to do it for the sake of doing it. Obviously I dont know him, and he is objectivity smart. He can get into a really good medical school if he wants if he works on the personal stuff.
How was he arrogant? He listened to him and said that wanted to work more on personal statements which gray was saying that all the time
Does this show reveal where he applied? Because the narrative changes completely if he applied to ivy league medical schools
Stats are solid but not exceptional and I agree that his personal statement lacks that message that makes him unique and also makes you feel that this person will make a great doctor.
*MEAN COMMENT*
Awesome Video!Thank you Dr.Gray. I love the content !
As a ucla student this makes me nervous lol
You will be okay. Just keep working hard!
How can you find out what schools are specifically looking for in a student?
Are those numbers of hours the average/norm? If so I'm screwed 😔
MegaKhas nah 3.8 and 517 are good numbers, average is like 3.6 and 505, but those numbers are definitely achievable with hard work. I have similar stats to this dude and I never thought I would be able to but I just kept good Study habits. Don’t be intimidated!
@@boblee14 I think he means the number of volunteer and clinical hours.
No way, I think the average community service and research hours that were published by AAMC were way lower. I think the hours don't matter as much as your description of the activities and what you got out of them. If you do a 1000 hours volunteering somewhere but don't have any specific stories to talk about, then you will be worse off than someone with 100 hours volunteering that has better stories.
how do you find the schools' mission to know if it fits you?
Look at their website and speak to current and former students
google MSAR
The schools website, MSAR subscription on AAMC, and the school specific SDN interview feedback.
If you are slightly above the average GPA/MCAT score, you're in the same pool as those with perfect GPA's/MCAT scores. Everything falls onto the application (and eventually interview) after that. Agree?
He should have taken his personal statement to the writing center in his school. So much hard work and so poorly written personal statement.
Writing center is a poor place to get feedback on a personal statement. They're for essay assignments.
@@cloudtheavegner1000 It would've at least been better than what he has now. He didn't even answer the question
@@cloudtheavegner1000 they could have helped with structure
As I read that personal story where "why medicine?" was written...
Should have just paid attention instead of asking "what is he trying to say?".
...
Right there, at the end "I wish I could have done more" and THAT is why he is in medicine. ...Yes, y'all are busy. But seriously? Why.
does your high school gpa really matter and make a difference? As long as your college GPA and mcat scores are amazing.
Carolyn Ridder med schools don’t ask for your high school gpa at all
He seems like a rlly sweet guy
He's Asian... the bar for Asians is extremely high and med schools are biased against them. The statistics are black and white, (two groups who find it much easier to get into med school btw)
While that may be true, his personal statement was mediocre and lacked purpose so being Asian is not an excuse as to why he got rejected after 4 interviews. He probably lacks interpersonal skills and probably came off as arrogant to the interviewers.