Neighbor Thought He Was an HVAC Tech or Plumber Didn't Help - Burnham Gas Boiler No Heat
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- Опубліковано 31 січ 2021
- Leave the heating system to the professionals and don’t ask your neighbor to help!
In case you need a new thermocouple - here is ONE:
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And if your 6" vent damper is toast:
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Central AC Service Call - Client Heard a BANG - thought it was gunfire outside - but instead it was her central AC unit. Going into the attic where the Goodman air handler is located we found the blower motor cap dead.
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Brings back nightmares of running emergency no heat service calls in the middle of the night in a snow storm.
Then I wake up and realize I'm retired and in south Florida for the winter.
These are great videos !
@@PipeDoctor yeppers definitely brings back memories.. ha! i did it in the 90s.. here in ohio not too many boilers.. mostly gas forced air in basements, crawl spaces, or attics.. I knew if the wind started howling I was gonna get a lot of no heat calls.. most of them were re-lighting pilots cleaning and adjusting valves / replacing thermocouples.. gosh if only I had a Testo 320 back in those days!!! then I got into commercial.. so instead of being in a cold dry basement id end up on a roof of a restarunt servicing a package unit.. ha! company figured out i was good at computers so I got a cushy job getting certified on all things DDC (mid 90s).. now im in telecom..people call me that their phones dont work.. I sit in my warm house and log in with a laptop LOL.. keep doin it man.. you got the goods there! KUDOS
Ha ha , I’ve been retired 7 years as a gas utility co.service tech. I still get calls at all hours in winter. People just don’t get it that I’m not interested in working any more on the crap out there after their neighbor really screwed it up.
@@natgasf4097 ha! or they *say* its the "friend" or neighbor when come-on its usually been some DIY they didnt want to admit to
you know when homeowner picks up a tool bag and hides it right as you walk in that he has been screwin it up
But was the money good?
@@buk6708 the money was always good on calls where the DIY jacked it up.. took twice as long to fix so twice the $
People remember the guy that saves their ass in a snowstorm. That is how loyal customers are made.
@@PipeDoctor That is what Snail Mail is for...
@@walterbordett2023 - no a “free courtesy visit” is the way to handle that, it was Mike who forgot not the customer. But Mike is the one who will properly tag, can’t expect a customer to know what’s what.
Customers that attempt to fix things themselves, usually do so after a dozen of their phone calls to professionals go unanswered or ignored.
It is nice to see that there are places where a service company will actually show up.
I used to be an auto mechanic for dealerships, one thing I can say a lot of people try to fixit themselves, only to screw things up. So when it is towed in and you magically get it fixed, it makes you look like a genius, cut the people some slack, you never learn anything if you don't try, and most people are ashamed to admit that they messed it up because they will be ridiculed.
Very true. Sometimes you gotta try something and mess up so you can learn something and do it right.
Thomas Edison once said about making the lightbulb “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.”
The biggest thing is learning something and not repeating the same mistakes. Eventually you get to the point where you know when you are in over your head and ask for help.
people hate to admit they fucked up, in hopes there will not be an extra charge for their mess up...
Excellent diagnostic skills...oh yeah, the best was the infamous “invisible friend”...sure...
I was thinking the same thing haha. My suspicion was confirmed when the customer quoted the 25 millivolt spec. Mikey pipes was a true professional, though and didn't let it phase him.
Mikey Pipes! Another great video!
A little on thermocouples:
Thermocouples work due to a thermoelectric effect that occurs when two dissimilar metals are connected and the connection joint is heated. Most likely the thermocouple in this gas appliances is a copper - constantan type T thermocouple but I am not really sure right now.
The outer wire is in the form of a copper tube and inside the tube is an insulation layer covering a solid wire (most likely constantan material in this case). The end of the thermocouple in the fire is where the wires are welded together. This wire arrangement is like a coaxial cable TV cable.
When the pilot is lit it heats the welded end of the thermocouple and a small voltage is produced. (around 10-30 mV depending upon the flame temperature). This voltage is enough to energize the solenoid coil in the gas valve just enough to keep it open and maintain the pilot light gas flow when the gas appliance main valve is off. This is why you need to hold the valve pilot button down long enough so you can give the thermocouple enough time to heat up and increase its voltage output to produce just enough voltage to keep the pilot solenoid open.
Now imagine you were in a spaceship travelling to Mars or some other distant planet. You need power on the trip to call home once a day to check in with the Mrs. And see how the kids are doing. On a long trip your batteries won’t last very long…and you are too far from the sun for those solar panels to work….so what to do? Use a nuclear reactor! Believe it or not, you can make power by using arrays of thermocouples surrounding a long lasting radioactive Plutonium 238 source. The Plutonium decays naturally causing a heat-up of the thermocouples and a voltage is produced - now you can call home!
Yes the very same principle used to open your gas valve on your gas appliance at home is used to power spacecraft in distant places where batteries and solar cells no longer can function.
Michael nailed it. The thermocouple has no liquid in it. It's just 2 dis-similar metals joined at the 'bulb' that gets heated by the pilot flame that creates voltage to energize the electro-magnet that holds the pilot valve open. I pulled the magnet assembly out of a hot water tank gas valve to test thermocouples under a 'load'. Sometimes they will read OK on a meter when not connected to anything, but under a load they wont produce enough voltage to power the magnet to keep the pilot on.Generally 15mv is minimum to keep the pilot on. Keep doing what you do Mikey Pipes!
@@PipeDoctor
I have bought cheap thermocouples - from Walmart of all places - and they are still in service going on ten years or so.
The tips on the thermocouple can corrode from the constant high temperature they experience in normal operation. Then the weld between the dissimilar metals weakens or breaks, and no or too little voltage is produced.
At least that appears to be how the thermocouples (only a handful, I am not a plumber or HVAC tech) failed that I’ve replaced.
Thanks. When Mikey said there was fluid in the bulb, I was going to have to Google it.
@@blitzblutz Well, voltage produced is just like pressure produced in a saturated fluid bulb so the intention and concept was correct.
Now that's what I'm saying, thermocouples don't have fluid in them. They are dissimilar metals, generating current by friction.
30 milivolt thermocouple has been the standard since the technology was invented decades ago.
The old, "I had my friend here"...sure buddy! When the homeowner draws attention to a loose wire and says that it was like that when it was working. Sure buddy! If the guy was just honest from the beginning, this issue could have been solved in 2 minutes. Simple as, "Gee, I was desparate to get this thing running, I took off this wire but don't remember where from.
This is not just only in plumbing, 20 years im electrician and TV serviceman in central europe and it is the same thing. So first rule of well done job is: Never trust your customer. They always lie to you.
Neighbor did something but we didn't talk about it - you know, he just does DIY stuff around my house. .....I think thermocouple minimum voltage is 25mv - don't remember where I heard that...just a guess.
Charge double time=$1,200
Honest workers should be flooded with views, you did good my friend.
Ive been plumber for about half my life now, i enjoy watching these things. Im from europe, the netherlands myself. the technique is so antique. but still very similar to the most modern of boilers. the information you get out of this valuable for all plumbers! nice work
I appreciate how respectful you are to customers,even in situations like this.i do the the same,good job. You are have have more knowledge than most techs.
First of all welcome back hope you enjoyed your vacation. I have been forwarding your videos to some of our young tech’s. Good troubleshooting techniques. Will definitely help out. Keep up the quality work.
Nice video like always.
A few years ago I had the same problem with the thermo coupling.friend suggested to replace it.i took coupling to Loews,I bumped into a plumber there.he suggested to clean the coupling lightly with fine sandpaper to remove the soot that was on.i did exactly what he said.its been about 3 years & no more thermo coupling issues again.
When a homeowner says (my friend) it usually means I messed up and dont want to take the blame
I enjoy watching your videos. If I ever needed a plumber I would be definitely be calling you. I no longer live on the South Shore of Nassau. Just recently moved Upstate. It’s good to have this connection back to my Hometown roots. Keep making tour videos.
man im happy for him ,im happy you have help him even if this is your job is nice to see a bit of human empathy
Nice job
Don’t you just love when someone has a friend that thinks he came fix it.
Stay Safe
A very simple system easily diagnosed and No damm computer boards! Glad you educated the home owner.
Mike I watch both you and Steve Lav. Both are hard working, but even better you appear to be honest. That says alot in today's world. Thank you.
Good work, figured that one out in about 5 seconds, see it often especially when people don’t know what they’re doing mess with the commons. It won’t provide a signal back for that gas valve.
Man coming back from the beach to a foot of snow. Stay safe out there
Love the content. I am a new sub. I am also from LI, although I am from central Suffolk. I was thinking of getting into the trade, but my blindness/visual impairment would obviously prevent that. I have a career path I am going down though. what got me interested in the plumbing and HVAC field in the first place was that I have some family members in it and I started searching youtube when I was younger to see what everything was all about. Thanks for the great content Mike, keep it up!
Always a pleasure and informative to watch
I like people who proud at their work
lovely an other family being happy and heated
Nice video! Great job of going out in that snow to help someone out. Stay safe.
Superb job! The millivolts was in range when you measured if I remember correctly but still was malfunctioning! Well done.
I don't work on hydronics but still very interesting.
We always come when called, the unsung hero's. Thank you for saving them, they are saying yall are in for it. Stay dry and hopefully warm.
Watching some older videos beings you are on vacation. And also, thanks so much for the "Mikey Pipes" stickers. If I lived near SL, I would put one on his back bumper! 🤣
Great video. Thank You
Great job! You didn't give him to hard a time about his friend f ing up the furnace! LoL!
Thank you, super job
good video - friend removes the common... gotta love it. thank goodness for the schematic
Thermocouples generate current by friction of dissimilar metals, and have no fluid or refrigerant in them. He looks to be a victim of silly sabotage. Sometimes when it comes to friends, who needs enemies. LOL
I almost died laughing when he said "fluid". 30 years in HVAC, first time I heard about that "fluid". Refill it and your good to go. LMAO
I found it interesting also how he refered to the thermocouple as having fluid in it. However first thermocouples genterate a current frm disimmiler metals being fused together and heated to produce higher outputs. Next the test performed will not give an acurate diagnosis as only OCV ( open circuit voltage will be measured, the proper way to test thermocouple output is with a test connector installed in the circuit so the thermocouple can be checked under load. In regards to "fluid" the poster appears to be confusing a mercury flame sensor switch that was used in intermittent pilot applications before the electronic flame sensing circuits became the standard control.
@@lanesmith4422 Maybe he said that just to simplify it for the customer, sometimes it's easier. Haha. Who knows.
@@jamz4351 well he didn’t simplify, just gave wrong info.
But . . . . . I though the same thing. Besides, having to explains things while diagnosis can be a hassle.
I know this thread is 5 months old. I was going to say the same thing. Lol, liquid in the thermocouple.
great video, you made the trip out during those ny winter conditions and the troubleshooting skills were so good!!!
@@PipeDoctor that is dedication to the job and work, respect!!
Nothing like winter in the north country. That's why I went south.
Kick ass you ran that call exactly like I would. “Great mind”
Very cool how you took the time to explain, some homeowners are genuinely interested in your craft. I'm in Seaford NY, perhaps I can call on you for service in the future.
great professional work with good customer interaction 10 out of 10
I ran a no cooling new refrigerator call back 25 years ago.
The cust wanted to save the cost of having a tech install a water supply kit for an icemaker so she had a handy neighbor hook one up.
When I took the back off I saw why the refrigerator wasn't cooling. The handy neighbor had hooked a self piercing saddle valve on the suction side of the refrigerant line.
Yeah, and voided warranty to boot.
She saved 30 bucks and trashed a brand new unit.
Saddle valves don’t care what kind of pipe they are piercing, as long as the pipe is soft enough.
That's funny,I did furnace for a guy that just had a pool heater installed.They tied the new gas line into the old galvanized water pipe,guess what happened when the turned it alk back on! New water heater,new furnace ( the other one was,2 weeks old) new has stove, new gas fireplace and they replaced the brand new pool heater.Unbelievable!
25 to 30 mv
@@petersmart1999 why did the existing gas appliances need replaced? Just curious. I understand the pool heater getting flooded.
@@tycobb8621 because they were all brand new,and had water run through them,if you had water coming out of the burners of your brand new stove,or your water heater,would you not want it replaced do to their incomplete!
You can steal a pilotstat (magnetic plunger the thermocouple hold in) out of a gas valve your trashing and throw it in your tool bag as a tester. Thread the thermocouple into it and squeeze the pilotstat. You have visible proof if the thermocouple is good or not.. quick easy tester
That's old school
New school...buy a thermocouple tester!
Why
Why not just measure the mv?
@@SuperVstech much easier his way!
Used to go on rural power out calls during blizzards. We would meet up with a County V Plow who would bust the way to the farm building site. It was fun when i was young.
Love it. Your videos are like OTJ training for me.
Great video thank you
Nice chip shot call! 25 to 30 mv is thermocouple reading.Great video
New York strong. Appreciate your videos one NY hvac tech to another
I used to work with these guys who would do almost everything themselves. When I told someone I was getting a new furnace, he asked me why not install it myself. Why? Ka-boom!! That's why!
its good to have you back, saint mike to the rescued
!!!!
I have used the Watts hot water recirculating system to stop freezing pipes. Because the “not so hot” hot water gets sent back through the cold water pipe, the water is kept moving as temperature of the hot water drops - and the cold pipe gets some warmth from that not so hot water flowing in it back to the cold supply.
I was setting here screaming.... hook up the control voltage on yellow. Why was the yellow unhooked.. lol. Great job as always buddy.
Good man going out for a new customer. Thats why you're successful....
Thermocouples are two dissimilar metals that when heated produce an electrical current. I start at R & C, leave one Probe on C and work my way towards the thermostat and then back to the gas valve. That will help you find where you are losing the call for heat. Just a tip that helped me in the past maybe it'll help you as well.
Good looking out.
Sweet folks passing it forward
“He’s mechanically inclined” - anything he does goes downhill fast ;)
Good one
It's always "I got a friend who knows these stuff" that makes you spend more time on the job.
@@airmech5083 maybe he knows a guy, but he messed that one up himself, notice there was only one set of foot prints in the snow when the repairman left. I do all of my own house work, but when it comes to friends, I rarely help, I don't want to open myself up to liability.
I’m a hvac tech and I’ve heard that clients story before. He tried to fix it himself and couldn’t
not tellin: I think the best one is “I just changed my filter a week ago I don’t know how it got that dirty already” with their iced up coil
Nice job keep it up
I would have pulled out the entire pilot assembly and cleaned it to ensure that the orifice was not partially obstructed or that there was no carbine build up on the pilot assembly. Adjusted the pilot flame if necessary to ensure the top of the thermocouple is being submersed in the flame. then you can test the thermocoupling miilivoltage. Good job on noticing the common was off.
Great job
After watching this,,, i'm going to practice on my neighbors heat first... lol Great work.. thumbs up!
@@PipeDoctor its taken me 30 yrs to figure out my oil burner... i'll leave the gas for the pros. cheers!
Fuuucckkk that! We had a snow storm a few weeks back here in Texas. I had about two inches in my yard. I stayed home. No worky worky that day!
24V AC is sent through the flame rod into the flame, AC current is rectified to a DC current through the process of flame rectification. The DC microamps flows back to the gas valve through the pilot tube (ground)
Good little vid ...1st time watcher and I subscribed ...
Nice work !
Whenever my co-workers "check" an expansion tank by tapping I ask them to back it up by $5. I will then pull out a pocket pressure gauge and check it (after dumping the pressure in the system). I win more than I lose. A full tank will still give a hollow tapping sound, other times the tank will have low pressure. If it is low just change it out, you can pump it back up but chances are you will be back in a few weeks.
Great job on the troubleshoot and video.
If only the guys I work with would listen to this advice.
Yuppp, if your not testing " your guessing ".
Quote; MIKY PIPES
Just great when someone else has a go at trying to fix it . Causes even more problems. 👍👍
The best is when everything's disassembled when you get there.
Your a good man for traveling out in that shit to save his butt! That's why I moved to SC!
Thermocouple is two dissimilar metals welded together which is what creates the 15-30mV its not a fluid, That would be in some thing like an oven FSD or mechanical thermostat
I always heat up a new t couple installed in gas valve heat up with hand torch outside of burner for test old tan color valve good for not lighting
There was a problem first then the homeowner decide to try and change the thermocouple causing a second problem
Then called for help. your job mr Phelps is to find all the problems I liked watching from my living room.
They all give up and call for help at 5 pm.
I wish my furnace had been something easy like that, I spent 2 hours to diagnose that the secondary heat exchanger was corroded through, as well as blocked. I was hoping for a igniter or a roll out sensor or something. I ended up installing a new furnace, as the price for a new secondary was more than a new furnace.
Salute I'm from long island started plumbing company
What brand thermocouples do you use? It’s been about 8 years since I had one replaced on my Burnham boiler. Want to buy one for a spare and don’t want to buy a cheap one. Always amusing to watch your shows, keep up the good work!!!
Whats up Mikey P. Father and son plumbing company up on South Shore MA. Videos are great
I’m thinking your client and his friend might have the same name. Lol
Nice work Plumber Mike. After some time with my pipe doctor hat I got to say its a nice quality hat. People ask whats Pipe doctor I always tell them UA-cam guy.
Good job finding the bad fluid lol😂😂😂
nice job
I found one homeowner disconnected the ground From the electronic box His so-called neighbor Was engineer She said
When someone says "I'm an engineer " a great response is "oh, I love trains".
@@thatotherguy1 lol
Also, thermocouples do not work on friction.
Use to be a tech on long island. I hated driving to calls in a blizzard lol.
Nice fix
The pipe doctor is the master but what the hell are you talking about, a fluid in the thermocouple? I've never heard of that. It's just 2 dissimilar metals heating up and creating a current between them
"Had a friend come."
He's my right hand ____
Should test it under load of the gas valve pilot valve.
Tell me more about this fluid in that copper thing? And it makes 25 volts?
30 Millivolts produced at the dissimilar metal wire junction over the flame . Thermopile is many wire junctions producing up to 900 mv
Home owner poking around without a clue. I’m sure a “buddy” was in there. Lol
professionals know best, leave it to the professionals, Long Island New York It's nice seeing Snow
Aye sometimes you already know what the problem is but you have to do the steps so the home owner doesn’t fell like he got over charged lol for a two min job lol great video
Coming from the other side of the blue ball, is there no pre or post purge on these burners? Where I’m from it’s mandatory. We also don’t run pilot flames, it’s electronic ignition.
Hell of a time to come back from vacation to a freakin blizzard
Down in Virginia we got a few inches from the storm but you guys up north got hit pretty hard. Be safe brotha 🤘🤘🇺🇸🇺🇸
you should have a gas valve tester for testing you gas valve and millivolts draw on you gas valve to make sure it is working right, but everything other then that looks good, because at that point you are guess at that point, just like what you say "if you dont test you are guessing"
Nice man answer call in the big snowstorm
Fluid in the thermocouple?I think you are thinking of a hydraulic pilot or mercury type pilot safety with the 3 prong plug into the gas valve.You have to be careful with those because if that thin tube breaks,you will have a mercury spill.
its a bi metal that reacts when heated
You be safe out there St. Mike 😇 🔧 lol
Saint Mike?
You are a bit of a lunatic, ain’t ya? This is why I subscribed.
Great work. It's as if that boiler was sabotaged by the "Friend"???
Hey I never noticed the wrench in that star of life....LMAO
Subscribed!
26 percent here. I see you got a dump of snow. 😊✅
UA-cam University !! Amazing !! Customer know EVERYTHING...
I’m in East islip 15” snow . Be safe mike