Furry Literature: The History of Anthropomorphic Animal Xenofiction
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- Anthropomoprhism, or the process of giving human traits to other creatures, objects, natural forces, or even concepts, is one of the oldest elements of our species’ collective cultural heritage, and while stories featuring anthropomorphic animals can be found as far back as the classical era, within the last century and a half, tales utilizing this approach have achieved unprecedented popularity across the globe. Here, we’ll be diving into the history of anthropomorphic animal fiction, taking a specific focus on those stories told from the perspective of their nonhuman characters.
Special thanks to the wonderfully talented Kenket (@tessgarman) for allowing me to use her artwork in the thumbnail:
tessgarman?lang=en
The end credits song is “Knife in the Coffee” by Car Seat Headrest:
• Car Seat Headrest - Kn...
If you would like to see more videos from me, please consider supporting my channel on Patreon:
/ cardinalwest
and follow me on Twitter for updates:
/ cardinal_west
And if you are interested in xenofiction of a more realistic variety, my debut novel, Winter Without End, is now available for purchase from Fenris Publishing in both ebook and paperback format:
www.fenrispublishing.com/winter
A post-apocalyptic story told through the eyes of a dog, Winter Without End follows a Labrador retriever who, after being abandoned by his human family in the aftermath of a devastating pandemic, makes an uneasy alliance with a wounded wolf in order to survive.
And lastly, three of my short stories, “Mark of the Stranger,” “The Merchant and the Martyr,” and “The Abbey of Saint Vera,” can be found in volumes 1-3 of our ongoing anthropomorphic historical fiction anthology, available here:
Volume 1 (“When the World Was Young”): makyo-ink.square.site/product...
Volume 2 (“In the Light of the Dawn”): makyo-ink.square.site/product...
Volume 3 (“The Heavens Within Our Grasp”): makyo-ink.square.site/product...
Note: Portions of this script originally appeared in my reviews for Furry Book Review.
furrybookreview.com/tag/casim...
00:00 Introduction
04:26 Origins and Early History
13:31 Modern Anthro Animal Fiction
17:38 Subgenres of Anthro Animal Fiction
21:39 Hybrid Anthro
37:49 Secret World
44:40 Secondary World
56:35 Coffeeshop Fox
01:04:00 Semi-Anthro
01:10:08 Conclusion
01:12:39 Credits - Розваги
![ОРБАН приехал к ПУТИНУ и "отчитался" о поездке в Киев 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_0ukDovOWq8/mqdefault.jpg)
Chaotic Evil: Kafka’s metamorphosis is furry literature
This might be the most toxic and cursed comment I've read in 13 years on youtube.
DELETE THIS right now
Ban this guy on every single platform
YES!!!
Why did I think they were talking about the Shindo L doujin
So I know that the cat imagery is only used to better emote the characters, but the Lackadaisy comic has been such a strong entry in a historical fiction. Both with it's dedication to 1920's historical accuracy as well as it's compelling and deep characters (That admittedly tend to get flanderized by the community, but what community doesn't do that.) it's both a strong read and strong visual representation
I need to get into the comic series, but I liked the pilot episode. I'm excited to see more episodes and content in the future for Lackadaisy.
... can they not emote humans? It is furry af
I didn't realize how broad the genera was. I liked Beastars, (in spite of some really weird scenes that took me out of the story occasionally) and Redwall was the book that got me into reading years ago. This video surly has given me many new books to add to my reading list.
My husband failed a class bc he used Beatrix Potter as a study of traditional gender roles, and the professor thought since the characters weren't "human", gender/gender roles didn’t exist among them. And this was in Yorkshire, just a stone throw away from Lake District.
Eta; clarification.
Never mind that animals have gender roles too, typically far more rigid than our own.
@@Croz89 I knew lions do, and that most males have nothing to do with the raising of offspring. Is there more to it? (Ecology is one of my special interests, so if you feel up for typing a bunch, I don't mind a deep dive)
Your husband seems to be a terrible teacher. Good that the class didn't listen.
@@candide1065 I don't think the husband was the teacher, he was a student.
@candide1065 my husband was the student but I see how I worded it badly.
The adult, mystery, graphic novel series: Blacksad, has gorgeous artwork and fits in with the “coffee shop fox category.” Definitely worth a read.
Thank you for another wonderful breakdown on different anthropomorphic literature. Your videos are always a joy to listen to.
Me watching to get good recommendations on books with anthro animals...
"Write that down. WRITE THAT DOWN."
I cannot describe how overwhelmingly pleased I am that Theodore Roosevelt appeared in a video about furry literature. Thanks, Cardinal.
Pleased to see the Ratha's Creature mention! The Named series was one of my first introductions to the genre and def paved the way for a 11 yr old kid inhaling The Rescuer's series, Redwall, NIMH, etc. For many children, anthro fiction is a great way to encourage young readers who, for one reason or another, feel less interested by human protagonists.
Redwall WAS my childhood, man. They're the books that made me a reader. To this day, the aesthetic of a rodent with a sword scratches a primal itch in my brain like almost nothing else does.
To that end, one of my personal favourite webcomics is Beyond the Western Deep, whose creators have outright admitted to being inspired by Redwall. Various video games have also scratched that itch, like Ghost of a Tale, Moss, and Small Saga. I've also quite enjoyed Death's Door (crows), Overgrowth (mostly rabbits), and Dust: An Elysian Tail. There's also Rain World, which is an odd case in that you don't play as an anthropomorphized version of any real-world animal, but the protagonist is still this sort of slug-like, sort of cat-like creature (a slugcat, if you will) that walks on two legs and uses tools.
I think rain world falls more into the category of naturalist xenofiction. The developers have spoken about how they wanted to recreate the experience of a rat in a subway. The game deliberately withholds information from the player to put them into the mindset of a wild animal.
have you heard of mouse guard? freaking great comic series
@@_D3mOnZ_F4LLinG_ Yes, that's pretty much my favourite comic series, and Davis Petersen is one of my favourite artists generally. He draws some top-quality sword mice.
@@SoranMBane YESS FINALLY I love that series so much no one knows abt it 😭
I would recommend the webcomic Tamberlane! It's also inspired by Redwall and The Secret of NIMH
I need to mention the graphic novel series “blacksad”, a coffeshop fox type book. Set in the 1950 America, it is a detective story and I enjoyed it a lot.
I love it every time you post you manage to wholeheartedly reinvigorate my thirst for reading, and for that I thank you for being one of the best creators on this site. I always wind up taking away more than I left with after watching your stuff. A true treasure.
Cardinal on his quest to read every single animal-related fiction in existence
Little fact about Reynard, in Old French (original language of the tales) he is called Renart, in Old French fox used to be called "goupil" but with the popularity of "Renart le Goupil" Renart was adopted as the vernacular name for foxes, now known to us as "renard"
If I learned French (or someone subtitled it for me), I would have watched "Moi Renart" by now. I've seen a few episodes, but it's too hard not knowing the language.
GREAT MOUSE DETECTIVE MENTIONED LETS GOOOO
But for real tho, great analysis video! Keep on making amazing content!
holy shit that intro is dope
EDIT: oh god my TBR just got so large
If Redwall doesn't get mentioned, I _will_ go on a rampage.
EULALIAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Dude, redwall was my JAM when I was 9 😁 I wanted to go to one of those Abbey feasts SO bad 😂
@@rocketfallenabsolutely spiffing, old chap! 🧐🎩
Logalogalogalogalogalogalogaloga@@rocketfallen
@@tazandalsoalastname excellent blinking idea wut wut
Lol, now you see just what a big world furry fiction is. And just the good stuff too. This doesn't even tackle non-literature masterpieces such as the visual novel "Echoes" or the indie fan animation "A Fox in Space".
I'd love to see a furry comic compilation video like this from you, but I feel like not only are there not enough SFW series out there to fill a video this long, but you'd be completely burnt out on furry fiction by the time you'd complete it XD XD XD
One of my favorite more recent works is Robert Repino's "War with No Name" series starting with "Mort(e)". It centers around animals forcibly uplifted by a colony of sentient ants after said ants have conquered the world and all but eradicated humanity. The way it explores the animals rediscovering human civilization in the absence of humanity is really intriguing.
Was wondering if that would come up! I met the author in person once and he's incredibly nice :)
I'm glad to hear that you liked "Thebe and the Angry Red Eye" its one of my favorite things I've ever done and i never hear anything about it.
I was directed to your video by Roz Gibson, whom I was surprised to hear you not mention. She's been a long time contributer to the community since the days of the early fanzines. Check out her continuing "Griffin Ranger" books, I think you will enjoy them.
*Cardinal West drops a video*
Me: "Oh what a day! WHAT A LOVELY DAY!"
Fury Road reference?
@@mr.fiction1558 WITNESS!
@@vhoro4514 "I live, I doye, I live a-gane!"
@@mr.fiction1558 "I am awaited in VALHALLA!"
Who here has been personally victimized by the film adaptation of the Guardians of Gahoole
I never read the books (though I used to have a copy of the first book), but I actually really liked the movie
Me, they mischaracterized all the characters so bad and I can’t even begin to talk about how much them conjoining st. Aggies and the pure ones into one big bad bothers me
It's a gorgeous movie but it's nothing like the books at allllll
Over time I started to mind its differences less and less. I think its bigger issue is its pretty mid, cliched storytelling, but even that isn't terribly offensive compared to other book-film adaptations.
Yes I appreciate the effort but at the same time they butchered the plot and crucial characters in the Gahoole world :(
While browsing Wikifur one night I got references to a book called The Architect of Sleep, featuring a young man mysteriously transported to a world inhabited by intelligent raccoons, and that then must pass as the pet of a princess analogue(more like ousted religious leader) as supposedly his appearance is in some way related to the plot against her. The book series was never finished, supposedly due to the reaction of the furry community to the novel written by an author that was completely unaware of it's existance. These days it is hard to get a copy of the book, but I found it reasonably amusing if you can get a hold of the copy.
Don't read it. It ended on a cliffhanger and the author refuses to finish it.
I'd recommend looking into the author Adrian Tchaikovsky, since it seems both his Dogs of War duology and Children of Time trilogy would be of interest. Neither are pure xenofiction, but include prominent Semi-anthro characters, with at least the former including them as prominent POV and main characters. The duology includes genetically-engineered war beasts, and Children of Time includes intelligent spider-aliens.
I grew up with _Wind In The Willows_ and have always loved it. There are bits of it, such as Mole's longing for his little home, can still bring tears to my eyes. The chapter with Pan, "The Piper At The Gates of Dawn" still seems like one of the most perfectly numinous portrayals of religion ever written.
I want to read every furry novel and comic one day, i want an expansive library of furry fiction that i can share with everyone.
The novel series I'm writing is a middle-grade/young adult series that's sort of a mix between secondary world and semi-anthro. It's set in a night world populated solely by diverse animals, in which the animals are limited by the biology of their real world counterparts, with the exception that every species is vegan and they can live just as long as humans. The main protagonists include a frog, a swan, a butterfly, a skunk, and young mole. These five animals are summoned to fulfill an ancient prophecy that will save their world from an evil that plagued it since the very beginning. The antagonists are these swarming creatures called Shadows who take the form of mice and bats. While they were once shut in from the rest of the world by a wall, this wall collapsed due to a failed attempt by a prior army, allowing the Shadows to roam and wreck havoc across the world, whilst they are being led by the mysterious Shadow Queen. In accordance with the prophecy, the five protagonists must utilize five of six Elemental powers in order to defeat the Shadows and their ruler, while the Shadow Queen is possession of the six Element representing darkness and is using to empower the Shadows.
In this trilogy, I tackle themes of personal growth, change, interpersonal conflict, ideological conflict, self-confidence, unity, cooperation, compromise, morality, prejudice, uncertainty, crisis of faith, disillusionment, separation, warfare, survival, death, poverty, inequality, oppression, religious belief, and much more. While I intend to aim it at younger audiences, as evidenced by this long list of themes, I also hope to make it complex and nuanced in a way that anyone of any age can understand and get invested. I personally believe that books aimed at young readers are able to tackle mature and nuanced themes, and there are plenty of examples (even famous ones) that do it just right, sometimes even better than works openly aimed at adults. I can't help but think of this quote from Walt Disney, "You’re dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway." There are plenty of stories aimed at children and young adults which even older readers can invest and get something out of, especially within the xenofiction genre, and I feel that ignoring works aimed at this audience would mean missing out on some great pieces of literature. So please, don't disregard children and young adult stories just because of the audience the media advertises them as being for.
Minor mistake at 16:58: Heat magazine was distributed by FurPlanet Productions but it was created by Sofawolf Press.
This is a great overview, thanks! I've wanted to read some good proper furry fiction, as i'm writing one myself, but its been difficult to sort between normal stories and smut, which i have no interest in. Gonna pick up at least one or two of these.
What a tremendous job you’ve accomplished here.
I am a big fan of condensation… the … well, Thomas Aquinas would be very pleased with himself, while thanking you for expanding on his art of Lists and Classifications 😅 We need these things, today. Due to the lack of bookstores, and even then. You’ve filled in the edges on several fronts. Giving fans an adventurous view of other lands to explore.
I find Guardiands of Gahoole a good adaptation on avian anthropomorphism because they realistically (while still anthro) use their talons and beaks like real birds and not the common cartoony comical use of their wings or feathers in place of hands.
always a good day when you upload, cardinal! your drive to document the history of the xenofiction genre is so inspiring. very excited to read more of these wonderful books you bring much needed light to!
I came across you channel with your Star Wars stuff but the coverage of Xenofiction is really fascinating. It's not part of what I enjoy reading or listening to, but it's still really interesting.
I'm deeply impressed by the scholarship, insight and care that you've brought to this analysis of the genre. Thank you also for the variety of reading suggestions, and I love the post-credits blooper clip!
Hey thanks for shouting out our Down the Rabbit Hole on Furries!
Thanks, that means a lot! The work you and Fred do has been among the biggest inspirations for my own channel.
I love your videos. They take me back to being 12 and adding all and any animal pov books to my tbr list on goodreads. It’s nice to know others have an interest in the xenofiction genre too :)
Articulate and comprehensive as always! As I'm working to self-publish my own (furry) book, your taxonomy really helps me to situate my work among the broader canon.
I can’t even make it past the intro without being impressed by the wondrous effort and talent you have OwO
as a huge fan of Xenofiction this video gave me a lot more reading recommendations, great video to work along side
My son (11y) loves the book series podkin one ear, about anthro rabbits. I really like it as well. It becomes clear at some point that the stories take place on earth, long after humanity has gone extinct. However, humans themselves play little part, only some of the remains of their hubris. The world building and characters are great.
Oh dang! Thank you so much for the glowing words about A Wildness of the Heart! That was really heartening to hear~
I'm not a furry (liking the Man-Kzin wars doesn't make me one) (also, I must admit that the Chanur books are quite enjoyable -- good to see that someone else has at least heard of them) (furthermore, The Book of the New Sun had some concepts that I thought were quite interesting, such as humanized animals being used as a caste of Janissary-like servant-soldiers by the Autarch of Urth (may rays of dawning light shine from his very footprints), unfortunately we don't see them much), but I found this video very insightful. Honestly, I really appreciate your efforts; I always leave your videos feeling smarter than when I went in. Thank you.
I grew up with the Redwall series! Those books practically raised me. I will throw my hat into the ring, and recommend The Book of Night With Moon series by Diane Duane, and The Nine Lives of Catseye Gomez by Simon Hawke.
Hello! I was surprised to see the number of xenofiction/anthropomorphic books I've read before were on your list. In this comment, I would like to give my brief review of some of them (not all, the comment will be VERY long), as well as others I like not on this list. (Although you might've brought them up in one of your videos.
Review
Welkin Weasels - This book series was ok for me. I kind of thought the characters were one-dimensional, and some of the lore didn't make sense sometimes ) For there were wandering golems in the book for some reason when it gave no indication there was that kind of magic system in place. I liked the character Mawk the most for some reason. I didn't continue the next series which featured the previous main character's son, who is now a detective like Sherlock.
Redwall - I enjoy Redwall, but probably only a few books. I wish that one of the books did something where it did a better job of displaying the complexity of the villains since I found them more interesting than the protagonists most of the time. My favorites are Redwall, Mattimeo, HIgh Rhulain, Salmandastron, Taggerung, and Martin the Warrior. I think by the time I read past book 9 I lost interest and zoned out.
The Builders (SPOILERS)- I kind of was disappointed with this book. The characters all kind of melded together and there wasn't that much to differentiate them (Basically all violent, somewhat alcoholic, and jaded). I liked the 'French' stoat though. They were built up to be undefeatable but then easily got one-shot in the end which kind of made it underwhelming. I didn't care for the ending either. Yet the physical characteristics and aesthetics were cool and imaginative. The book had a gritty kind of feel to it, I just felt a little disappointed about the ending.
The Dark Portal - Yes! This book was mentioned. I read this series over a bunch of times. It is aimed for middle schoolers and I was just thinking "What? Middle schoolers?" Even though it has the rats it involves, blood, gore, cannibalism, necromancy, decapitation, genocide, and skinning. So I don't know how it was categorized as a middle school book. It has a neat horror element. I like the character Oswald the most. Too bad the ending was a bit grim.
MistMantle Chronicle - yeah, this was a little too juvenile for me. I almost made it through the first book, but then lost interest.
Books I recommend
Dragon of Ash and Stars - I liked this book. It's basically like the dragon version of Black Beauty.
The Hunt for Elsewhere - One of my favorite anthropomorphic books. Even though it kind of does rush through events, I liked it and the characters were relatable.
Gregor the Overlander - I enjoyed this book. It has the main human character go into an underground world where there are other underground people as well as talking rats, bats, and insects. I liked the character Ripred in this book. It would be cool if it was made into a movie.
Nightshade City - A secret society with rats. The heroes need to save their population of highly intelligent rats who have an unnaturally long lifespan. The book explores why whey are intelligent. I liked it, but the ending of the third book, Lord of Trillium, was a little disappointing.
Animorphs - I don't know if this counts as xenofiction, but I wish this series could be made into an animated series that is able to explore the full creative conceptualizations of the action scenes and animal transformations.
Fearless - This is by Morgan L. Booth. I liked the book, even though it was a bit boring at times. It is about a wolf dog who is released on an island. it is interesting how the book characterizes him. He is a big white wolf dog who is both domesticated and wild. Which means he fits in neither world. The wolves can't communicate with him since he isn't fully wolf. He has the innocence and sweetness of a dog, but then can snap and go feral on anything at any moment. I thought it was a good premise, but the writing and delivery fell a bit flat.
Silverwing - I enjoyed this book series about bats. I didn't read the third book since it had mixed reviews about it. I actually enjoyed the not-as-popular prequel, Darkwing, more since it takes place in a prehistoric world with chiroraptors the imagined ancestor that linked pre-modern bats to modern bats. I know it is not an accurate representation of evolution, but I enjoyed it for the fiction book it is.
Song of the Summer King - it features griffins! Not featured all that much in xenofiction. I kind of don't remember it that well ,but it's worth a read.
The Sons of Masguard - This book is great if you like pirate adventures. It centers on two otters and the animal world they inhabit. it doesn't focus that much on them being animals though, but does bring up characteristics in those animals. (The wolves are huge, dogs are loyal, badgers are grumpy, etc.) My favorite character is (minor spoiler) the pastor fox who was previously a knight and an adept killer. I also like one of the otters Mckinley, who is witty and kind of like a more watered-down version of Deadpool.
Raven Quest - I liked this book and thought the raven culture that was established was interesting. I also liked the wolves in the book.
Survivors - by Erin Hunter and basically the dog version of Warrior Cats. Kind of underrated, but preferably just read the first arc since after that it goes downhill from there. There is also Bravelands, which the third arc is actually the best one. The third arc I am actually enjoying and not just reading due to association with it being an Erin Hunter book.
Doglands - I liked this book more than A Dog's Purpose, which I read around the same time. It does show animal abuse though, but I was engaged in the story.
The Spinner Prince - it is an interesting concept, but I lost interest in the second book. It did inspire me to want to write my own series with a similar concept )anthropomorphic big cats). Not to copy it, of course, but just that basic concept.
Lastly, I recommend any books by Avi. They are simple, short reads but they hold a little bit of nostalgia for me. They're for middle schoolers, but I thought they were cute. My favorite xenofiction from his The Good Dog.
I will be sure to check out some of the other books Cardinal recommended. Great video!
I recently read a book called Heaven's River. It's the 4th book in a series about the operating intelligence of a Von Neumann probe based on a brain scan of a gen x nerd. The series has a few alien species described in anthro terms, but the 4th is the one that could be considered mostly Xenofiction (though one of the subplots through the 2nd and 3rd books could be considered such as well).
In Heaven's River he stumbles upon an alien megastructure millions of miles long populated by what are more-or-less anthro platypuses who, despite living on a massive, artificially constructed world, live in a pre-industrial society. He mounts an infiltrative expedition with a remote-controlled android body meant to mimic the locals and much of the book focuses on his experience living as one of these anthro aliens.
I'm absolutely outside this fandom, but I enjoyed the video a lot. It's always fun to hear someone talk about something they know deeply.
Thank you. I might even give some of there a read!
It is shocking how many of the later novels come from fanfic or webcomic creators I read 10+ years ago.
Great to get new recommendations for my TBR list! I'm curious if you've heard of/read anything by Adrian Tchaikovsky, specifically his Children of Time and Dogs of War (unrelated to the one in your video) series. I don't think Tchaikovsky *intended* to write within this genre, but a lot of the time he's at least adjacent, and he has a pretty clear interest in exploring non-human psychology and intelligence in a lot of his work.
New Cardinal West video just dropped! Really enjoying the brief dive into furry culture ha
EDIT: would Bojack Horseman count as hybrid anthro?
One book that I found years ago is G Howells " The Human Memories" and his " Life of Riley" stories that are still on going today. It could classified as an Isekai set of full length novel.
I dunno if is going to be translated but now Brazil has Pantaikan that is about a warrior capybara fighting against evil spirits, it falls in the secondary world category but is more for small kids but the illustrations are quite nice.
This was very informative! I had never really considered the nuances of anthro xenofiction before. From your selections, it's interesting to see how they all serve as reflections of the human experience in various ways. Obviously, all art is made from a human perspective, but I'm now compelled to read some of these stories which sound very emotionally resonant.
Regarding works you didn't mention, I'd recently heard about a comic called "Scurry." I think it falls more under naturalistic xenofiction, but nonetheless, it follows a group of mice who have to navigate a setting uncharacteristically devoid of humans with very limited understanding of why the world is the way it is. Admittedly, I can't speak to its quality, as I haven't yet read it either, but figured I'd just give it a mention to engage.
Absolutely beautiful work! I’m glad to have been introduced to these authors and plan to at least check out A Wildness In The Heart
I missed your video essays so much!
I recommend Dream of Aveire, by Kris Schnee. It's a sci-fi novel set in a utopian, post-scarcity O'Neil cylinder run by a god-like AI that, as a sort of cultural art project, built a society where taking on anthro forms though genetic engineering is the expected norm. The novel follows a young rabbit woman as she navigates the culture clash when her home encounters a less advanced human society facing disaster.
I'm a bit biased in the book's favor, since the setting was based on some worldbuilding I came up with for a story I commissioned from the author, which he rewrote into the novel with my permission- but I do think it holds up as a fun adventure story with a very unique premise.
Watts Martin's Kismet is also very good. It's another sci-fi novel featuring furry transhumanism- in this case, the "totemics" are people who become anthros for quasi-religious reasons. The novel follows an anthro rat woman born from formerly human totemic parents, who has to flee back to the place she was born to escape a mega-corporation, and then grapple with her past there.
Can't say I'm all that interested in anything explicitly furry-related.
For whatever it's worth, though, I know a lot of people who are, and sent this to them.
I would like to mention the works of Elyne Mitchell. Admittedly I have never read The Silver Brumby (somehow) but I have read all the rest of the series. Silver Brumbies of the South is the one I prefer. To me they have a dreamlike quality that is hard to describe.
Also, I'd recommend the Freelance Familiars series by Daniel Potter. It's about a mild-mannered librarian in an urban fantasy setting who is permanently transformed into a cougar and has to navigate the violent intrigues of wizards, witches and a mafia-like Talking Animal Union. The books suffer from overly frenetic pacing- the plot of the 6-book series could probably have been stretched into 15-20 novels and felt more naturally paced. But despite that flaw, I still found them all extremely enjoyable to read. The author is also very much a furry, and includes lot of stuff from the subculture.
Vaguely similar is the The Price of Thorns by Tim Susman, which is about a trans-man thief who is changed permanently into a weasel in a fantasy setting that reads like a clever blend of the Brothers Grimm and 1001 Nights.
The author Phil Geusz has also written a variety of novels about people transformed into anthros and animals.
This "former human" subgenre of furry fiction is smaller than the ones you've described in the video, but also very much a thing.
While not exactly literature, I’m still trying to figure out which category a franchise like “Sonic the Hedgehog” would technically fall under. It’s like a weird combination of Hybrid Anthro, Secondary World, and Coffeeshop Fox- with occasional glimpses of the Semi-Anthro genre whenever normal animals are depicted.
Have you read Cordwainer Smith's stories (and/or same universe novel Norstrilia)? There's a lot going on in the stories but one of the strong running threads is the animal-based "underpeople" who struggle to achieve spiritual and political equality with people.
One of my favorite authors -- love all of Smith's stories.
yo cardinal west what do you think of the planet of the apes movies?
Do you think you'd do a video on the science fiction of Cordwainer Smith? While the animal-derived Underpeople are engineered to look exactly like humans (Particularly if they're meant to be sexy women) I think it is an interesting exploration of humanity's relationship to the animal kingdom in the future
Loved this Video! Very informative and gave me lots of New Books to read 😊
Currently reading The Named Series and am obsessed with it 🤩
I really enjoyed this. Very in depth. I'd love to see you make one focused on transformation literature. A theme that often runs adjacent to anthro literature. Human becoming something non human or other.
A fave of mine in that genre is the The Fangs of K'aath duology by Pauli Kidd.
You mentioned so many, but I think you didn't mention the graphic novel Scurry by Mac Smith, which you can read for free on the series website. I haven't read it yet, but it's on my list. Post-apocalyptic, I believe, featuring mice and other animals after humans have disappeared.
There are so many good furry books, like Scars of the Golden Dancer, The Winter game and Camouflage.
For those outside the fandom, it's worth pointing out that the content of many romance novels by fandom authors, particularly the "Coffeeshop Fox" genre, are reflective of the fandom's gender balance and dominant sexualities, and not those of society at large. In other words, you're mostly going to find MLM romance, so if that's not your jam, you're probably going to struggle to find anything that appeals to you.
Also, that credit music feels straight out of a Wes Anderson film.
What? Fandom's gender balance and dominant sexualities, are those of society at large. If you look at most non furry queer books, most of them are MLM romance books.
I don't see why MLM romance couldn't be appreciated by people who aren't MLM unless they had weird opinions about gay people. Romance is romance.
@@ElizabethLazuli Well, when it comes to romance, I find people generally tend to prefer something that aligns with their sexuality, especially if it's a bit explicit in places.
@@ElizabethLazulithere are a lot of people with weird ideas about the gays, so OP is saying this to protect the community from people who would read and get offended. Not every fandom site has a great tagging system, so it does still happen that people get three quarters of the way through a fic before realizing it has MLM romantic content. When the reader has weird opinions about the gays, this tends to result in them harassing the author. It's better for the community as a whole if the number of those people who even bother to interact with the authors is kept to a minimum.
I will also point out that some people have trauma surrounding romance and sexuality, which can be linked to specific relationship arrangements. While I think most people can read about a relationship that isn't like theirs and enjoy it, it's also reasonable to warn people what kind of relationships will be in the content they're reading. Just as an example: some Sapphics don't like reading about any character who pursues men, simply because it triggers their anxieties and traumas around being told they "haven't found a good man yet" and ruder variations thereof. They might really prefer a WLW relationship, but if the canon work in question doesn't have a lot of female characters they might be open to reading a male protagonist as long as he's pursuing only women. Which, a lot of fics can look like they're going to be MLW for dozens of chapters before the author pulls some twist. While this is not usually an issue on the better fanfic sites because those have tags, so people are forewarned about the MLM content, it can still happen on the sites that aren't really designed for fanfic (or because people refuse to tag their fics properly in the name of "avoiding spoilers"😤).
Now, back in the day the term "coffeeshop" pretty much exclusively guaranteed there would be gay romance. If the protagonist was male, it would always be MLM, if the protagonist was female it would always be WLW: there were very very few exceptions to this. However, nowadays there's been a movement away from romantic content in these stories (not a bad thing), so one can't simply assume that the protagonist and the cute barista are in fact going to be the main couple or that there will even be a main couple. This leads to a lot of confusion over what to expect from a story labeled with this term. Older fandom people sometimes get offended when younger readers complain that there's too much romance or the romance was a type they weren't expecting, because they feel like the expectation that the story's main romance will be same sex is built into the term "coffeeshop". Younger readers and writers find this attitude confusing, because they don't know the history of coffeeshop fics in the queer community. Coffeeshop AUs and fanfics were a big part of the queer community in the 2000s, for much the same reason why cottagecore is now: a lot of rom-coms in that era took place wholly or partially in coffeeshops, so these fics were a way to normalize queer relationships. Kids could read about a bland protagonist of their gender falling in love with a cute barista of their preferred gender, and feel like they were normal: because that's what the straights were doing (according to Hollywood). But, post-Marriage Equality, that reason for the Coffeeshop AU to exist is not really as relevant anymore (it's not irrelevant of course, there's a huge urban/rural cultural divide still). This is what a lot of the older queers who think they shouldn't need to warn people about the content of their fics don't appreciate. Nowadays, Coffeeshop AUs are just as likely to end with the protagonist in a polycule with people of multiple genders or with the lead characters settling on a different kind of relationship, or with one or both lead characters transitioning (one of the reasons you can have a fic that seems to be MLW which turns out to be MLM in the last act). So if there's a blanket assumption within a particular fandom that coffeeshop stories will have MLM content it's considerate to warn people upfront so they can avoid those stories if they have trauma surrounding romance or sex with men.
@@sophiejones3554I would argue that even if a heterosexual reader is perfectly fine with homosexual relationships and has no moral objection to them (as is generally the case nowadays), they might find homosexual erotica a bit much to read, it's not necessarily about trauma. It's really the same with any other pornography, and of course it goes the other way as well. Not all of the coffeeshop stuff is explicit of course, but quite a lot of it is, at least in places.
HELL YEAH XENOFICTION VIDEO
What is the name of that story that you mentioned at 50:10? I tried finding it on my own online, but am having trouble. Can you clarify that more by also telling the author's name and when it came out?
And remember there isn't a section where a furry is defined as "someone that regularly consumes antropomorphic porn"
Because all of the definitions do it.
Yeah. The thing I don't like about furry fandom is that it's the only fandom that's based around a sexual fetish. By all means people, be into what you're into in your private life. And yeah, there's Rule 34 for everything. But, unlike any other fandom, the mainstream furrry fandom IS the Rule 34 side of the fandom, and the lack of privacy and personal boundaries just doesn't make for a healthy community.
@@TheCaptain610 Mainstream fandom isn't inherently sexual. Many popular furry artists are sfw, like Kenket, 0laffson, Ilya Royz, and CaraidArt. The only different furry and other groups is that furry don't pretend that nsfw side doesn't exit. I found furry to be not any worse than any other group when comes to boundaries.
@@TheCaptain610 The furry fandom like the video said started as just people that like anthro characters and anime, and then it became sexual like any fandom, and isn't interesting that the furry fandom that the vast majority is made by queer people gets this label of hyper sexual while you can rarely find a non-indie sexual content from said fandom? Meanwhile anime fandom fetish/sexual content is far superior than the furry fandom and nobody says anything while you can easily buy and watch multiple ecchi and hentai series made by big publishers, even ones that touch in taboos subjects.
Also anime fandom is much worse in the boundaries remember the ahegao jackets that people used around children? And as an artist furries tend to respect more boundaries than other groups every time asking if is ok to share stuff even non sexual stuff.
@@TheDoomBlueShell On two separate occasions, nearly a decade apart, I attempted to interact with the periphery of the furry fandom, as I do enjoy anthro characters in fiction. It's not all or even most of what I consume, but it's something I enjoy, and on these two occasions, I felt inspired to create content featuring anthro characters and share it online. I accepted that it would attract furries, but I did my best to give them the benefit of the doubt and avoid judging them.
Both times, the very first people who messaged me sent unsolicited porn, even after I explicitly said no, and tried to manipulate me into writing/drawing pornographic material that I explicitly said I was uncomfortable with multiple times. Even the ones who didn't try to get me to make erotic content acted like they had a right to know about my private sexuality, claiming that I was "hiding things" or that I had an "unhealthy aversion to sex" for wanting to keep it private. The ones who didn't actively stick their noses in my private business were still easily led cowards who would lie about, dismiss, or make excuses for cases involving sexual assault and grooming because it would have social consequences for them. There were even two individuals who overlooked illustrated CP when it turned out a friend of theirs was into it.
There were people who, on the surface, would pay lip service to concepts like consent and boundaries, but that all went out the window the second they felt like saying, sending or doing something inappropriate. On a third occasion just this month, I dipped my toe into making an account strictly for sharing art only. It wasn't on a furry platform, and it was just my work in general, not strictly or even mostly anthro stuff. The first DM I got was unsolicited furry foot fetish content, which had nothing to do with the content I was making.
Virtually every comment I got on my work, even when it had zero sexual content, was sexual in nature. Even if they just said something like, "this character is so hot." But I also got far more graphic comments, with people requesting commissions that were either flat-out porn of children's cartoon characters or "shipping" art which, let's be real, is just sexualizing cartoons in a less overtly squicky way. "I'll draw everything leading up to the sex, I'll draw them making out, I'll draw them crawling into bed together, but just so long as we don't show graphic penetration, it's all totally innocent, tee-hee-hee, you're misinterpreting my work!"
No one was interested in the actual content of the media. It was all either "wow, look how sexy this character is," or, "I want to have sex with this character," or "tee-hee-hee, I just want to see these characters pinching each other's asses and making out, but I'd never dream of sexualizing them -- or making content that has anything to do with the characters as presented in the actual show."
When I've interacted with comic book or horror movie fandom, people were actually interested in talking about the director's choices, an interesting piece of characterization, the storytelling or artistic techniques, etc. . . . even the ones who also dabbled in shipping art or whatever. In furry fandom, the media in question only exists to provide these people with anthro characters to sexualize. The fetish was what attracted them. If you made the same material with human characters or talking appliances or talking fast food items instead of talking animals, it would hold no interest for them. Not even in what Cardinal West calls the Coffee Shop Fox subgenre, where it's just a superficial aesthetic choice.
As for the "queer" element of the fandom, most of the people I'm talking about were heterosexual. Not that this behavior is acceptable from LGBT people either (I'm really sick of people using that as a shield). I didn't interact with many people who were same-sex attracted, though ironically, the only person who wasn't a coward and was willing to speak common sense was trans and in a same-sex relationship. This person was strictly a FurAffinity user, however. In general, this person found social media to be toxic, and had no interest in gaining a following -- which is a sign of someone with good values IMO.
Anime fandom is just as bad, but I think that's because there's a lot of overlap with furry fandom. The furry/cartoon/anime fandoms are so adjacent to each other as to be almost indistinguishable. If you're really into one, you're usually also into the others.
Are there normal furries who are just into anthro animals for totally wholesome reasons? Of course. Are there furries who have an interest in the erotic content but aren't completely inappropriate freaks about it? Of course. Sometimes, there are even furries like Cardinal West who are genuinely interested in this stuff for its literary and cultural value. But they're part of the problem too, because despite what @mech653 said, they DO ignore the unhealthy aspects of the fandom.
Furries have the reputation they do for a reason. The problems in furry fandom are obvious to anyone on the outside or periphery looking in. But the "normal" furries still look the other way to maintain the status quo, because they'd risk losing the niche they carved out for themselves if they questioned this stuff. The sad reality is that if you want to make anthro content, you have to either put your blinders on or make a definitive choice to cut off what would be a sizable portion of your audience. Or in many cases, your only audience. Media like Bojak Horseman or Watership Down -- works with mainstream appeal for adults and normies -- are rare. And the reputation of furry fandom is only making them rarer.
@@TheCaptain610 It's not based around a fetish. The video above literally goes into the roots of the furry community. Obviously there's an adult side to the community too, but there's nothing wrong with that anyway.
Have you heard of the Quintaglio Ascension Trilogy?
So where do fanfics like recursion error and finding balance stand in those categories?
For those who don’t know about those stories recursion error is about a teen named sorun gets pulled into the Archie sonic universe. The second story finding balance is where a human dies and ends up in the world of kung fu panda.
You really deserve more views, I absolutely love your videos. I'll see if I can get your book :)
I just recently started the Gergor the overlander books but really like the anthros in that book series
Pretty good video!!!
I know rick griffin was mentioned here but one of his more recent works id reccomend would be ani-droids. Basically its about furry androids and rob9t sentience. Its a deeply emotional story and i would highly recommend people check it out if you like stories about robots. Its super well written the characters are amazing and again the story is very emotional too.
My wallet hates your videos- I learn about so many interesting books that I want to read!!
Shoutout to Stan Sakai's Usagi Yojimbo as some earlier anthro animal work, started in 1984!
oh my god, you mentioned Cherryh and The Builders novella. I am so happy.
also I am so gonna the Winterset Hollow book to read.
if their is some things I could suggest that could be added into this the most likely be not a book but a video game called "Night Of The Rabbit" published by Daedalic Entertainment that you might like in ether the hybrid or secret world category.
if their is a book you might want to look into. have you heard of "Memoirs of a Porcupine By Alain Mabanckou " ? . its not in any of the above but it is xenofiction from the perspective of a porcupine who is a magical animal conjured up by a human.
This video just so happened to appear in my
recommendations and 'thank you'. I admit I haven't read as much anthro-fiction as I
would've wanted (I did read Beastars. It was
very messy in places, but still great.) but I'm
personally working on a couple works of
anthro animal fiction 'or related too' that I
picture are going to run the gambit of being
universally controversial, but they're on
subjects I personally really, really needed to
be explored. The first one is a series I'm
calling Scale-born, of witch is about anthro
lizards who are like Native American's/
Celts who are living in a world suppressed by
Indo-European Catholic-like bears who are
'on the most part' wrong to mistreat and
brutalize the lizard characters on the premise
that their the offspring of their devil 'Saurus'
while the Scale-born themselves think they
were blessed by an evolutionary blessing
from their goddess Zubara (Named after
that fallen lady lizard general in Pearls of Lutra) who they revere among other things.
My issue is not only is my proposed series
Waaay not for kids, it paying homage to George RR Martin and Kentaro Miura (Along
with refs to C.S Lewis, Tolkien, and Richard
Adams to varying extents.) the very fact that its about lizard people could get it into the hot
water due to how certain circles view such
characters (Its the crap about Reptilian aliens.
I don't buy into that nonsense at all.) could make it incredibly hard to pitch, even if I find the mythology/prose and trauma really quite
beautiful. The other one while only in its early
stages is an Egyptian Mythology story that
actually follows Set/Seth as the main protagonist with his appearing offspring Anpu
AKA Anubis as an secondary lead. While I know its meant to show Set in his younger more innocent days as an champion of light
for Ra, much like the subject of Lizard People
I fret said character is too universally despised (Especially with that latest Doctor
Who episode coming out. Yikes.) for people
to rationalize that he was ever anything other
than the God of evil. The point of the book is
to show that good vs. evil struggle and to be
an father/son story of sorts, the reader not
only seeing the best and worst days, the evil
and good for Egypt and its gods both, shedding light on obscure facts and diving
into the horror that it very may entail. The thing was...I was triggered into writing by
both Brian Jacques and Rick Riordan both,
for the first author I feel failed at capturing
what medieval Europe really was, and at
times overly vilified/mispresented reptiles
even calling amphibians reptiles basically
every time (Don't get me started on the
'vermin' talks.) the later was...me just flat
being triggered by how Rick Riordan chose
to portray Set and Anubis. Within Kane Chronicles, one he just made an absolute
satanic monster with next to zilch redeeming
quality's (I personally believe readers should
be much more afraid of Sekhmet.) and while
Anubis wasn't evil like allot of story's do he
made him an basic pedophile flirting with an
13/14 year old girl even allowing that ship to
set sail, so you can see how I got incensed. Part of what Rick did I thought right was him
applying that it was actions of Osiris and Isis
that caused Set to do the wrong that he did
even admitting that Osiris has demon minions
in the form of 'Shezmu the lion demon god'
but Rick applied that Set was just born evil
declaring his true name 'Evil Day' when it really should be 'New Day' since he was the
one originally brining the light back from Apophisis's shadow. I know Egypt was crazy
wacky with its animal headed gods, but I
loved that whole idea of blending man with
the forces of nature that that embodied, and
while that probably makes me an furry, I just
shrug that off and say 'whatever'. (I never even knew the Greeks did an Animal Fantasy epic of their own. That's really Interesting!)
Does Jasper Fforde's 'The Constant Rabbit' fit in this category?
4:27 you’re an author with Fenris that’s so cool 😭
A correction: Coffeeshop Fox stories are actually used quite often in children's literature, particularly those aimed at younger readers, i.e., Marc Brown, Rosemary Wells, and Kevin Henkes, among others. Also, you forgot to mention that sometimes the characters in those types of stories don't even acknowledge that the characters are animals.
FINALLY THE REDWALL MENTION IVE BEEN WAITING FOR
I know my day will be great, when Cardinal drops a video. Absolute legend!
Coffeeshop Fox not including Maus? I know, graphic novel, but still good!!
Funny this should pop up, as I just cracked opened Johnathan Livingston Seagull and am about halfway through it now.
YESSSSS IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS..
technically speaking "furry" is more so for the fans who identify with the community than with the actual characters. it just happens to be that it revolves around a specific character type, being anthropomorphic animals, so the label gets applied there too. but whenever an argument comes up i usually try to push for the term to refer to the hardcore fans and not the characters as there are instances of some people including the artists and authors of specific works not wanting their characters to be called "furries". and also there are fans of such content that don't want to be referred to as "furry" as well. and really it was originally meant to be a self identifying label for the community and people active within it.
overall it's actually only so much used to refer to the characters when people want "oh i wanna see some books and movies with furries in it" versus all the other works that don't have anthropomorphic characters. but then when ya go for indepth look at anthro characters you will find there are a lot of different categories for "furry" characters usually with more proper terminologies
Context clues usually clear up what definition of "furry" somebody is using. Trust me, I used to get annoyed whenever people would refer to anthro characters as "furries", but it really does not matter.
@@ElizabethLazuli ya i know it doesnt matter. i was just saying that there are people out there that will try to argue about it anyways and that's what i was actually "getting annoyed" about.
@@ElizabethLazuli also there are people out there that don't understand context clues
This video is fantastic. Thank you for making such a thorough deep-dive into furry literature.
yippie i immediately recognised the Beastars music used
Welp looks like i'm off to update my "Want to Read" list once again
Great job! Another fantastic video :)
Can you please do a video on Song of the Sea?
I know that this video is about furry literature but what are your opinions on furry videogames like Biomutant, Beyond Good And Evil, Sonic The Hedgehog, etc.?
I recommend the Wings of Fire series. Its a decent young adult series with dragons.
Would you please explain the economics of story-writing?
I wonder if you've ever read Destroyer men series which is basically alternative history/ secondary World Xeno fiction
A while ago, I accidentally came upon an anthromorphic series called Chakats Den. It's about taur like felines. Some are modified to have both genders and humanoids. Their species was created by modification of the DNA of big cats. They have advanced space technology. Humans live amongst Them & some have an interspecies relationship.
I've always wondered what you would think of the webcomic Nature of Nature's Art. It's a strange series of stories set in a universe where animals have slowly been developing an independent, inter-species society out in the wilds. I think it would be something that interested you very much, or at the least you'd have something interesting to say about it.
I think probably I'd reccommend starting with the story "Emancipation," as it is the earliest on the diagetic timeline, though my favorite will always be the first story published, "10%+". If you like interesting philosophical debates, cool kung fu fight scenes, and animal-based worldbuilding.... give it a look! If nothing else, it'll give you something to think about.
as a amateur writer, I myself take inspiration to this, and the films I enjoy.