I put a VS on my Pontiac based on this test. The torque from my motor gets me launched, then hold on. When the boost hits, she’s gone with much better traction on 275’s...Thanks Richard, you nailed it...
That was excellent. I’m pointing folks to this video for the AR explanation that no one seems to grasp most of the time. Superior content as always a Richard! That’s why your channel is my favorite engine channel.
Excellent test Richard!! Thanks for doing it. Interesting comparing this test to a test of yours from a month or two ago with the GT45. It didn’t fare all that badly in comparison but was definitely tapped out by 800 HP where these turbos both have some room left.
Just so happens, I am buying the v s. Reason being as I will be a rookie street racer on the streets and it won't come in as hard off the bottom so that should help me easier to tune for traction. That's my reasoning anywhere. I picked the v s out on summit racing and just happened to run into this video. Thanks so much richard. If you could happen to provide the proper cam for a five point three in springs, As well as blow off valve that would be awesome. It's a big ask but you probably already have it written down. Love the videos keep it going.
Would love to see the same test with a full exhaust to determine the true relationship between the exhaust housing ratios. An equal down stream restriction to enable a better comparison of how each exhaust ratio handles restriction. Not everyone runs a 4" out of the front guard. Cheers
I knew he had done some t6 testing. I sifted thru to the end and richard said the back pressure was lower than boost the entire time on the t6 s475 and 4.great. ua-cam.com/video/14NC8qXiPus/v-deo.html
I like the change in hotside AR. They both look sized about right for this combo. It's not very often I see a direct comparison between two roughly equivalent turbo with one this drastically different. Brake dynos, which I am assuming yours is, can really change the load in. Holding the engine to 300r/s is also a little unrealistic for as installed but gives comparable results. Thanks for this test, this was nice to see...finally someone that understands what turbine AR is actually for.
Hey Richard, again.....you have answered a question with some really good info on turbos. For a guy with a daily driver work truck that just needs more towing power, the BORG is the answer! Boost comes in sooner, lower rpm, fuel mileage doesn't suffer.....win/win for the contractor daily driver work truck!!!
Nice! Just a suggestion, but how about a turbo air filter test? We’ve seen test of things post-turbo, how about pre-turbo? Open vs cone filter vs paper filter vs turbo-guard..
Engine masters did it . Its not free content though its motor trend on demand . The new filter are bad ass hardly and hp loss and theu have different levels of filtration from just a screen to full street filter all were impressive
Wish the s475 had the T4 1.25 housing on it. Too bad I’m not closer to you Richard. I’d let you borrow mine. You’ve been killing it with these test. Keep it up man.
Love the knowledge Richard, keep the informative videos coming, I'm going to take all of this information on turbos and apply it to my Dodge Charger R/T, I also purchased your book from Car Tech SA 418
This is a test of housing versus a test of the complete turbochargers. I bet if you took a BW S475 with the matching AR's as the VX the curves would be within 10 horsepower of the VX. Very interesting test but more about the how back pressure Vs boost pressure and how it relates to AR than about comparing turbo brands. Funny I was reading about this very topic earlier today.
Don't forget to measurement compressor outlet temperature to be able to draw conclusions regarding the compressor efficiency. Pretty important when you are comparing two turbos. :)
This is probably the straight turbine wheel inducer blade sx400 right? Great video. It shows how getting the right turbine housing for your app will work.
I think the boost response is coming from the drastic difference in A/R size. If the VSR turbo had the .96 AR like on mine it would have an equal boost response as the borg warner
Great info as always. I’ve seen several people explain what turbo back pressure is and what causes it, but I can’t find anything on how to control or minimize it. Any help would be greatly appreciated……
Tests like this can give people an idea of which direction to go. Based on this test I’d want a smaller exhaust housing. Daily driven truck that sees zero time at the track and very little time anywhere near the limiter.
I would like to see more low boost response turbo tests. I'm building a stock 5.3l TC78 setup hoping that the smaller F1-68 wheel will give me better response below the 3k area. On a long distance towing truck it will make a world of difference to have that down low boost.
Great test, thanks in just getting my head wind this stuff esp. the hot side sizing... being that I have a stage one equivalent a smaller AR wooing work better., sbc m and I don't need high dollar precision turbos either, borg or summit even e bay gt45 with 67ar hot side, is fun when things come together
In this case, 100% I'd go with the s475 no doubt. The curve it produced was fantastic and would be a lot of fun to drive. The response on the street should be extremely good.
These were T4s. Id love to see what the s475 1.1 83mm T6 can do. Thats what we are using and theres not much info out there because everyone uses the 1.32ar.
Hi Richard, great video! I learn so much from all your dyno tests and video's comparing all the different cams, heads, turbos etc on a LS motor. I just got a 6.0 junk yard engine with good Gen IV rods, a cam bearing came out when trying to swap in a sloppy stage II cam. Anyways I put new rings n bearings n cam bearings, valve job etc and added sloppy stage II cam n pac 1218 springs. Going twin turbo's street strip 72 nova with turbo 400, 3200 lbs race weight 3.42 gears. From seeing all your videos, if this 6.0 blows up, I will just swap in a 5.3 junk yard motor, swap over the sloppy stage II cam and springs, open up the ring gaps, add my same turbos injectors etc and let her rip! Lol My question would be great to compare a pair of the famed S366 borg warner twins to for example VS racing cast 66/73 twins for they said about 1000 to 1200 hp on a 6.0 or 5.3. The twin borg warners have pushed lots of 3200 lbs race weight cars into the 8s but cost about 650 a piece. The VS racing 66/73s cost about 700 for the pair. I would love to see a similar comparison for twins VS racing 66/73's or similar to the borgs twin S366s. Are the S 366's that much more powerful etc? My car is 80% street, 20% strip runs, no trans brake foot braking runs into the 9s or ideally 5s in the eighth is my goal. Im kind of cloning Robs 74 orange nova build SPPTV on you tube 74 orange nova street strip car except I have 6.0 with turbo 400 and he has aluminum 5.3 with twin S366s and glide. He ran 9.78 in quarter on 9 lbs boost pump gas tune with pump gas and loves it! I will run e85 at 15 to 18 lbs max to help save motor but will love to 9s and drive on the street on 9 lbs with e85. Of course both cars have air to air intercoolers What are your thoughts? Of going budget twins VS racing vs pricier s366 borgs for twins? Im going twins cause I dont weld and twins for me are easier to set up with cheap ebay shorty turbo headers etc and how they look, more throttle response thru wider power band on street and still fast at strip. I want my cake n eat it too for a true street/strip car! Lol Thank you so much for all your help, advice and influence from your great videos! Regards, Robert Broderick Hemet, Ca.
Better test would have been to use two motors and the two turbos. That way you can see what the ar does by the size of the motor. You have a 4.8 with both turbos and a 6.0 with both turbos. That way when you hear about a properly sized turbo you can point to where That shows up in power and back pressure. Love the videos!
Awsome and interesting video! What would change if tested on a lq4? And what would be a good size vs turbo for a lq4, 600-900hp. Street car. In a 67 impala.
Another great video RH, appreciate all your hard work. I'd love to see a video where you show the changes variable cam control can have on boost response/ power curves. It's be something for a Coyote I reckon. Show maybe 10 degrees intake advance incrementally to Maximum. Then 10 degrees exhaust retard incrementally, and maybe the behaviour with both changing together followed by optimised vs no control. Would be interesting to see the effect of increasing overlap varying in effectiveness as back pressure increases.
@@richardholdener1727 Naturally, but would be interesting to see the changes as cam angle changes. Changes in VE, how dynamic compression gets changed, overlap effects etc.
Can you do a test on cams with relativity the same duration but different lobe separation then just different intake center lines? Just to show how and where it changes the power cures. Thanks
Probably would depend on the application. Drag racing, with a converter that stalls above 4k, the response down low means nothing. On a daily driver it might.
This wasn't really about the turbo manufacturer as much as the AR of the two turbos. I agree though I would like to see a battle of the turbo event where all the turbos are equal on both hot and cold side.
The Precision turbo would always make more power AND spool quicker than a comparable Garrett turbo. This has been proven hundreds of times already. Although, the Garrett Turbo will last longer than the Precision Turbo. Then the Borg Warner Turbos will last longer than both and make similar power figures as the Garrett, with a few hundred rpm longer spool time.
We need a way to see how well a turbo spools on a particular combo. Since we could actually see that vs racing turbo come up onto boost, how about a back to back test with a narrow lsa cam to see if we can make it spool earlier? On the same note, couldnt boost builder/launch control be tested the same way to simulate coming up on the trans brake? This could really help folks with converter sizing, etc.
Depends on what you are trying to achieve! The freer flowing VS turbo is always going to make a bigger power number, regardless of the engine you put it on... But not a huge difference. So the question becomes - which do you value more for your application: More response, or an extra chunk of power at the top end? Don't forget this would only matter if you had specific top end power goals, because both those turbos will make 1000hp on a 4.8, 5.3, 5.7, 6.0, 6.2 or 7.0! Personally, I'd choose the S475 for any application where 750-800hp was going to be "sufficient" and I'd just up the boost a little on the S475.
Awesome test Richard! I love the small form of the 7875 VS Racing turbo. I would love to see what happens if this turbo was rear or mid mounted on a 6.0L. You would lose some response being rear mounted but the 6.0 would increase the back pressure quite a bit with it's additional 1.2L. Instant response with a 6.0L can actually be more of a hindrance than a help anyway, especially with a manual trans. Great stuff Richard, thanks for all your efforts.
What really matters in being the major boost characteristics and power difference between two turbos, are the blade surface, here obviously they have the same blade surface area despite the design being different, VSracing comp. wheel has bigger hub, the weight of the wheels, especially the turbine wheel, and the cm3 area of the exhaust housing, the a/r of the housing not so much. People wrongly compare A/Rs, when they should be comparing cm3 areas. The tendency for comparing A/Rs derives form the fact that two i.e T4 housings with the different A/Rs have different cm3 areas, but it is not always the case as different manufacturing companies of a T4 may have different cm3 areas on the same A/R. Also the cm3 area of a T3 of an X A/R is not the same as a T4 of the same A/R. The bigger the cm3 of an ex. housing the less power down low, the more power at the top end, the smaller, the opposite. Always use the right cm3 area exhaust housing and a/r for your engine capacity/setup, and for the intended purpose of your built. Excellent comparison and video as all the videos you post.
Would really have liked to see both of them pushed a bit harder. Been trying to decide next upgrade. Have a maxed out gen1 7875 making more wheel hp than this one but is absolutely out of steam on my setup @ 22psi. Looking hard at the gen2 but don't know if it is a big enough jump.
I've heard of pullers or land speed racers using ice water to cool their intercoolers. Have you ever seen anyone try or have you ever thought of trying dry ice and isopropyl alcohol? This combo is pretty common on rotary evaporation systems in the synthetic chemistry labs and if I remember correctly is circa -90 degrees Celsius so it would give quite a bit cooler intake charge versus ice water.
Looking to run a vsr 78/75 1.25ar on my pickup truck but my manifold its a traditional t4 and the turbo is a t4 divided, will that work? Help me please if you can
Could you do a video on the variant of the ls2. The y76, tips and tricks for increase all around efficiency, hp/tq. Problems with the DoD cams vs DoD delete with aftermarket cams.
I'd say unless you're racing with a high stall converter, the better response would be more than worth the 20hp (2.5% isn't much). Just like the last test, that BOV is not working at all.
Richard, I wonder, Boost, timing being equal, would it be better to get small twins say 58mm or similar or a single 87mm or similar turbo? Love the content, who won the cam? #ineedacam LOL
Was that the 83mm turbine wheel? I'd be curious to see what the "box" S475 does (1.32/87mm T6 turbine) does. This is definitely a budget turbo face off. As you found out the T4s in these are somewhat under turbined compared to their T6 cousins. You wanna see an interesting comparison dig up a TV8101 or a TV8513. Legit old school stuff that'd make either of these look super fast.
Could you dyno two identical turbos, but with the only difference being the a/r ratio? Like a s480 with 1.15, verses 1.32 verses 1.52. At least they are easier than cam changes.
Teaching me so much about what I've pondered about with every video! 🙏
I don't know Jack about turbo's, but I'm learning. Keep up the good work. You're pushing me to build a tire killer.
That zip tie and cap on the steam vent is the real mvp.👍🏻
I put a VS on my Pontiac based on this test. The torque from my motor gets me launched, then hold on. When the boost hits, she’s gone with much better traction on 275’s...Thanks Richard, you nailed it...
Love your 4.8 tests
Great video. This is exactly why I so enjoy your content.
Thanks again Richard, once again we come away with more knowledge.
I have been waiting for this for a long time!
Either way, what a sweet Hellcat killer! Great to see someone finally directly compare two compressors on the same mule, and graph & explain.
I like diff turbo testing. Great video Sir.
That was excellent. I’m pointing folks to this video for the AR explanation that no one seems to grasp most of the time. Superior content as always a Richard! That’s why your channel is my favorite engine channel.
Love the Richard holdener documenting all this
Excellent test Richard!! Thanks for doing it.
Interesting comparing this test to a test of yours from a month or two ago with the GT45. It didn’t fare all that badly in comparison but was definitely tapped out by 800 HP where these turbos both have some room left.
On this little LR4 it seems like maybe a 1.15 A/R would strike a nice balance between response and power. Great comparision Richard!
Turbine wheel design plays a part as well though. A wheel with good response tends to sacrifice flow up top even with a bigger housing.
Just so happens, I am buying the v s. Reason being as I will be a rookie street racer on the streets and it won't come in as hard off the bottom so that should help me easier to tune for traction. That's my reasoning anywhere. I picked the v s out on summit racing and just happened to run into this video. Thanks so much richard. If you could happen to provide the proper cam for a five point three in springs, As well as blow off valve that would be awesome. It's a big ask but you probably already have it written down. Love the videos keep it going.
Would love to see the same test with a full exhaust to determine the true relationship between the exhaust housing ratios. An equal down stream restriction to enable a better comparison of how each exhaust ratio handles restriction. Not everyone runs a 4" out of the front guard.
Cheers
One more vote for a t4 vs t6 test. VS being a budget turbo I was really hoping this test would be 7875 vs the Summit S475.
Me to. Now that this test is done, the t6 1.32 75mm needs to be tested against the gen 2 7875 on the same 4.8
I knew he had done some t6 testing. I sifted thru to the end and richard said the back pressure was lower than boost the entire time on the t6 s475 and 4.great. ua-cam.com/video/14NC8qXiPus/v-deo.html
@@95GTSpeedDemon idk why you would put a 1.32 t6 on a 4.8. The 1.10 T6 s475 is perfect on my 5.3
I've been waiting for this! Would love to see this same test on a rec port 6L. Brave man with that laptop battery lol
Ian M me too! Do the sloppy cam test followed by these two turbos on the 6.0. That’s want we all really want. 😆
a 6.0L just adds back pressure
@@richardholdener1727 Does that make it more responsive on a 6.0 than the 4.8 then?
@@richardholdener1727 So you would have to up the AR on the same turbos for similar power curves to account for increased airflow on a 6.0... correct?
@@richardholdener1727 that's true, should make more power on less boost because air flow is airflow and boost is a measure of restriction.
This is great stuff i have been having headaches over which 1 to buy, which is going on my gen 4 LS 6.0 has answered the question
Great work again Richard! Exactly what I like to see. Thanks.
Love the video! 💪🏻 the back pressure graphs really put it into perspective
I like the change in hotside AR. They both look sized about right for this combo. It's not very often I see a direct comparison between two roughly equivalent turbo with one this drastically different. Brake dynos, which I am assuming yours is, can really change the load in. Holding the engine to 300r/s is also a little unrealistic for as installed but gives comparable results. Thanks for this test, this was nice to see...finally someone that understands what turbine AR is actually for.
Excellent video!
Thanks Richard.
Hey Richard, again.....you have answered a question with some really good info on turbos. For a guy with a daily driver work truck that just needs more towing power, the BORG is the answer! Boost comes in sooner, lower rpm, fuel mileage doesn't suffer.....win/win for the contractor daily driver work truck!!!
Yup can attest to that, have a 5.3 S475 T4 1.10 A/R comes on really quick 2500rpm almost full boost makes for a very fun daily driver .
He says it's a/r1.0 in the video. Did he miss speak? I am looking for a turbo that lights by 2500 just like this but can't find the s475 in at 1.0
@@timisaiah9010 He did say 1.0, the S475 can be had from 0.90 to 1.25 A/R, just google "S475 1.0" it'll show up.
How about comparing a pair of GT35 turbos against a bigger single?
Pretty sure he already has, go look through his videos
That’s a great explanation on the AR!! I now have a better understanding what that number means!!! Thank you!!
Nice! Just a suggestion, but how about a turbo air filter test? We’ve seen test of things post-turbo, how about pre-turbo? Open vs cone filter vs paper filter vs turbo-guard..
ayeyo_drizzy yea good idea
I've got a centrifugal supercharger and would like to see this test too. Less restriction is better, but how much! Keep up the good work, Rich!
Engine masters did it . Its not free content though its motor trend on demand . The new filter are bad ass hardly and hp loss and theu have different levels of filtration from just a screen to full street filter all were impressive
Wish the s475 had the T4 1.25 housing on it. Too bad I’m not closer to you Richard. I’d let you borrow mine. You’ve been killing it with these test. Keep it up man.
Awesome test! I feel like it's a good comparison as these would be two turbos that the guys would be considering for the same build.
Love to see a small cam and big turbo vs big cam and small turbo test. probably pointless but would be fun. Keep testing!
Love the knowledge Richard, keep the informative videos coming, I'm going to take all of this information on turbos and apply it to my Dodge Charger R/T, I also purchased your book from Car Tech SA 418
This is a test of housing versus a test of the complete turbochargers. I bet if you took a BW S475 with the matching AR's as the VX the curves would be within 10 horsepower of the VX. Very interesting test but more about the how back pressure Vs boost pressure and how it relates to AR than about comparing turbo brands. Funny I was reading about this very topic earlier today.
Awesome thanks for the best work...
Don't forget to measurement compressor outlet temperature to be able to draw conclusions regarding the compressor efficiency. Pretty important when you are comparing two turbos. :)
Be cool to see a test on ar ratios, boost and back pressure curves.
This is probably the straight turbine wheel inducer blade sx400 right? Great video. It shows how getting the right turbine housing for your app will work.
I think the boost response is coming from the drastic difference in A/R size. If the VSR turbo had the .96 AR like on mine it would have an equal boost response as the borg warner
I would like to see that precision 76/75 with the .96 ar thrown in there to see the low end response and the back pressure it as.
This upload is a classic
Great info as always. I’ve seen several people explain what turbo back pressure is and what causes it, but I can’t find anything on how to control or minimize it. Any help would be greatly appreciated……
turbo sizing vs na power output and (displacement)
Tests like this can give people an idea of which direction to go. Based on this test I’d want a smaller exhaust housing. Daily driven truck that sees zero time at the track and very little time anywhere near the limiter.
I’m with the other guys here .. Max out that VS racing turbo on a modified rec port 6.0 please .. Love the videos 🤘
the 6.0L just adds back pressure
Richard im about to use the gen2 7875 with 1.25ar on an ls3.am I going to have back pressure issue?
I would like to see more low boost response turbo tests. I'm building a stock 5.3l TC78 setup hoping that the smaller F1-68 wheel will give me better response below the 3k area. On a long distance towing truck it will make a world of difference to have that down low boost.
Instant thumbs up just because of the title
Great test, thanks in just getting my head wind this stuff esp. the hot side sizing... being that I have a stage one equivalent a smaller AR wooing work better., sbc m and I don't need high dollar precision turbos either, borg or summit even e bay gt45 with 67ar hot side, is fun when things come together
In this case, 100% I'd go with the s475 no doubt. The curve it produced was fantastic and would be a lot of fun to drive. The response on the street should be extremely good.
Exhaust flow into and out of the turbo dictate turbo performance. It's the pressure differential that matters.
Holy smokes, I'm glad I read your comment! I don't think I'd of ever thunk of that by myself!
These were T4s.
Id love to see what the s475 1.1 83mm T6 can do.
Thats what we are using and theres not much info out there because everyone uses the 1.32ar.
Thanks for taking the time to test for us. Youre a precious resource for go fast guys🤣😉🤦♂️
Would love the spec run down on the full setup so I can build the same thing please 👍🏻
Cool info thanks Richard
Nice test. I'd like to see more turbo difference testing!
Fantastic scientific analyses. Mr. Holdner, could you consider doing a 1970s big block junkyard shootout with old truck turbos?
Hi Richard, great video! I learn so much from all your dyno tests and video's comparing all the different cams, heads, turbos etc on a LS motor.
I just got a 6.0 junk yard engine with good Gen IV rods, a cam bearing came out when trying to swap in a sloppy stage II cam. Anyways I put new rings n bearings n cam bearings, valve job etc and added sloppy stage II cam n pac 1218 springs. Going twin turbo's street strip 72 nova with turbo 400, 3200 lbs race weight 3.42 gears. From seeing all your videos, if this 6.0 blows up, I will just swap in a 5.3 junk yard motor, swap over the sloppy stage II cam and springs, open up the ring gaps, add my same turbos injectors etc and let her rip! Lol
My question would be great to compare a pair of the famed S366 borg warner twins to for example VS racing cast 66/73 twins for they said about 1000 to 1200 hp on a 6.0 or 5.3.
The twin borg warners have pushed lots of 3200 lbs race weight cars into the 8s but cost about 650 a piece. The VS racing 66/73s cost about 700 for the pair.
I would love to see a similar comparison for twins VS racing 66/73's or similar to the borgs twin S366s. Are the S 366's that much more powerful etc?
My car is 80% street, 20% strip runs, no trans brake foot braking runs into the 9s or ideally 5s in the eighth is my goal. Im kind of cloning Robs 74 orange nova build SPPTV on you tube 74 orange nova street strip car except I have 6.0 with turbo 400 and he has aluminum 5.3 with twin S366s and glide. He ran 9.78 in quarter on 9 lbs boost pump gas tune with pump gas and loves it! I will run e85 at 15 to 18 lbs max to help save motor but will love to 9s and drive on the street on 9 lbs with e85. Of course both cars have air to air intercoolers
What are your thoughts? Of going budget twins VS racing vs pricier s366 borgs for twins? Im going twins cause I dont weld and twins for me are easier to set up with cheap ebay shorty turbo headers etc and how they look, more throttle response thru wider power band on street and still fast at strip. I want my cake n eat it too for a true street/strip car! Lol Thank you so much for all your help, advice and influence from your great videos!
Regards, Robert Broderick Hemet, Ca.
Next generation Star Trek reference is fire!
glad someone caught it
TNG and VOY both my favorite series.
Better test would have been to use two motors and the two turbos. That way you can see what the ar does by the size of the motor.
You have a 4.8 with both turbos and a 6.0 with both turbos. That way when you hear about a properly sized turbo you can point to where That shows up in power and back pressure.
Love the videos!
Awsome and interesting video! What would change if tested on a lq4? And what would be a good size vs turbo for a lq4, 600-900hp. Street car. In a 67 impala.
I'm glad i bought the gen 1 vsracing 7875 .96 AR for a 5.3
torque of a diesel?
Have you installed it yet?, how do yu like it?
You can interchange those housings and swap around for another test and see if they reverse.
Another great video RH, appreciate all your hard work.
I'd love to see a video where you show the changes variable cam control can have on boost response/ power curves. It's be something for a Coyote I reckon. Show maybe 10 degrees intake advance incrementally to Maximum. Then 10 degrees exhaust retard incrementally, and maybe the behaviour with both changing together followed by optimised vs no control.
Would be interesting to see the effect of increasing overlap varying in effectiveness as back pressure increases.
if it adds power NA-then it adds boost response
@@richardholdener1727
Naturally, but would be interesting to see the changes as cam angle changes. Changes in VE, how dynamic compression gets changed, overlap effects etc.
Thanks! Great comparison
Can you do a test on cams with relativity the same duration but different lobe separation then just different intake center lines? Just to show how and where it changes the power cures. Thanks
I think he did one a while back, check out the older vids
@@awd_pirate1946 i think he did as well.
VS racing turbo on 6.0. Should respond good on the low end being bigger than a 4.8 and choke up less than the 475 does on the 4.8. Sounds good to me.
Love to see the 4.7 L dodge was going to put the supercharger on it but might just do a turbo
Great video, thanks for sharing. I'd love to know when the wastegate cracked open for each.
Its almost 200hp difference at 3000rpm, that would more than make up for the drop off at the top
Probably would depend on the application. Drag racing, with a converter that stalls above 4k, the response down low means nothing. On a daily driver it might.
Dont know anyone who is wot at 3k in any other gear but 1st.. cool for the street tho
Moon Tuned
?????
Why don’t you go wot at 3krpm in other gears???
Turbo on highway speed.
Full throttle in top gear.
Your missing out. Try it sometime.
4K converter in a turbo car is awful loosey goosey unless you have an extremely small motor that doesn’t make any torque to spool the turbo IMO
78freewheeler 4k is pretty common on SBE small block turbo cars
Makes me wonder what would happen if you used a summit stage 4 turbo cam on that Borg Warner to see how it would change the graphs.
it would not be good on a 4.8L
As is often the case, a turbo more responsive at low RPM is more restrictive at high RPM.
Hi….I have Always been curious why you don’t use the boost control thru the Holley ecu?
I SHOULD
I want more boost! More!
I would love to see a Garrett vs. Precision dyno throwdown
This wasn't really about the turbo manufacturer as much as the AR of the two turbos. I agree though I would like to see a battle of the turbo event where all the turbos are equal on both hot and cold side.
The Precision turbo would always make more power AND spool quicker than a comparable Garrett turbo. This has been proven hundreds of times already. Although, the Garrett Turbo will last longer than the Precision Turbo. Then the Borg Warner Turbos will last longer than both and make similar power figures as the Garrett, with a few hundred rpm longer spool time.
We need a way to see how well a turbo spools on a particular combo. Since we could actually see that vs racing turbo come up onto boost, how about a back to back test with a narrow lsa cam to see if we can make it spool earlier? On the same note, couldnt boost builder/launch control be tested the same way to simulate coming up on the trans brake? This could really help folks with converter sizing, etc.
So the VS would possibly work better on a 5.3, 5.7, 6.0,? Where the S475 would be more at home on the 4.8/5.3. ?¿??, while they both do it!
Depends on what you are trying to achieve! The freer flowing VS turbo is always going to make a bigger power number, regardless of the engine you put it on... But not a huge difference. So the question becomes - which do you value more for your application: More response, or an extra chunk of power at the top end? Don't forget this would only matter if you had specific top end power goals, because both those turbos will make 1000hp on a 4.8, 5.3, 5.7, 6.0, 6.2 or 7.0! Personally, I'd choose the S475 for any application where 750-800hp was going to be "sufficient" and I'd just up the boost a little on the S475.
Awesome test Richard! I love the small form of the 7875 VS Racing turbo. I would love to see what happens if this turbo was rear or mid mounted on a 6.0L. You would lose some response being rear mounted but the 6.0 would increase the back pressure quite a bit with it's additional 1.2L. Instant response with a 6.0L can actually be more of a hindrance than a help anyway, especially with a manual trans. Great stuff Richard, thanks for all your efforts.
I am late, but can you do a budget turbo LS build? GT45 maybe?
Interesting how horsepower and torque cross at 5252rpm and it looks like boost and back pressure do the same thing at least on this test interesting.
Richard, you guys must have a whole lotta fun stuff at Westech!
What really matters in being the major boost characteristics and power difference between two turbos, are the blade surface, here obviously they have the same blade surface area despite the design being different, VSracing comp. wheel has bigger hub, the weight of the wheels, especially the turbine wheel, and the cm3 area of the exhaust housing, the a/r of the housing not so much. People wrongly compare A/Rs, when they should be comparing cm3 areas. The tendency for comparing A/Rs derives form the fact that two i.e T4 housings with the different A/Rs have different cm3 areas, but it is not always the case as different manufacturing companies of a T4 may have different cm3 areas on the same A/R. Also the cm3 area of a T3 of an X A/R is not the same as a T4 of the same A/R. The bigger the cm3 of an ex. housing the less power down low, the more power at the top end, the smaller, the opposite. Always use the right cm3 area exhaust housing and a/r for your engine capacity/setup, and for the intended purpose of your built. Excellent comparison and video as all the videos you post.
Would really have liked to see both of them pushed a bit harder. Been trying to decide next upgrade. Have a maxed out gen1 7875 making more wheel hp than this one but is absolutely out of steam on my setup @ 22psi. Looking hard at the gen2 but don't know if it is a big enough jump.
its 100 hp extra for the gen 2
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks. Been hearing that. Think that extra exhaust housing would help out above 5500 with the gate pinned? :)
That 7875 gen2 is what I am putting on my 351 junkyard motor build
What was ignition timing set at, and what percentage ethanol? What was the target afr?
AF was 11.5:1 (not closed loop), we ran pump E85 (never checked %), timing was 13-19 degrees through the rpm range
I've heard of pullers or land speed racers using ice water to cool their intercoolers. Have you ever seen anyone try or have you ever thought of trying dry ice and isopropyl alcohol? This combo is pretty common on rotary evaporation systems in the synthetic chemistry labs and if I remember correctly is circa -90 degrees Celsius so it would give quite a bit cooler intake charge versus ice water.
i would like to see u test a compound turbo setup like they do on diesels, i have herd of people doing this to gas engines.
Already done ua-cam.com/video/s0zkOk-LDS4/v-deo.html
I'd love to see the gen 3 billet 78/75 from vs compared to the gen 2 version. Looking to upgrade from the ebay gt45
It all goes down to application. Are drag racing or are you pulling a heavy load? Do want the response up high or do you need it at low rpm.
Looking to run a vsr 78/75 1.25ar on my pickup truck but my manifold its a traditional t4 and the turbo is a t4 divided, will that work? Help me please if you can
Great test Richard, seems like two Borg Warner turbos would be fun lol
How do you choose a turbo?
Could you do a video on the variant of the ls2. The y76, tips and tricks for increase all around efficiency, hp/tq. Problems with the DoD cams vs DoD delete with aftermarket cams.
I'd say unless you're racing with a high stall converter, the better response would be more than worth the 20hp (2.5% isn't much).
Just like the last test, that BOV is not working at all.
Hydrocarbon82 don’t need it anyways
Is the VS racing turbo you are using a ball bearing model?
Richard, I wonder, Boost, timing being equal, would it be better to get small twins say 58mm or similar or a single 87mm or similar turbo? Love the content, who won the cam? #ineedacam LOL
I need to pick
Side note: can't believe that the Holley HP doesn't have closed loop boost control on board.
It does-we didn't use it
@@richardholdener1727 I guess since you also test a lot of carb turbo setups. having a stand alone boost control system makes sense
Bro is the David Goggins or mods motors and testing
I am on the fence about a vsgen2 or the summit racing T6. I am a little worried the T6 won't spool on a 5.3 with a 3500 stall converter.
Do you ever sell any turbos you have laying around I thought about putting one on my 390 fe stroke motor or I have a 6.2 l 94
just buy cheap new ones
You should do this test with a T6S475, $600 turbo
I RAN THE SUMMIT VERSION OF THAT
Was that the 83mm turbine wheel? I'd be curious to see what the "box" S475 does (1.32/87mm T6 turbine) does. This is definitely a budget turbo face off. As you found out the T4s in these are somewhat under turbined compared to their T6 cousins.
You wanna see an interesting comparison dig up a TV8101 or a TV8513. Legit old school stuff that'd make either of these look super fast.
Could you dyno two identical turbos, but with the only difference being the a/r ratio? Like a s480 with 1.15, verses 1.32 verses 1.52. At least they are easier than cam changes.
So in all your testing is there a power or spool time difference with different size intake charge pipe diameter.
that video is up
@Richard Holdener got a link. I am subscribed to ur channel but you got tons of videos and we appreciate all of em
Absolutely