Checkout part 1 at ua-cam.com/video/PaaylvdM8X4/v-deo.html Support the channel on at patreon.com/resurrected or buy a model at cgtrader.com/loststarships - also accepting 3d commissions - preferably for space/scifi/ or even marine-based projects! - Find my email and contact in my main channel description!
I really like your videos I appreciate that you take the time and thought in to them and give them the better quality. It's always worth the wait. And I have looked for an email but I can't find an email for your contact I've checked the UA-cam page and I can't find one or a link for contact. I'd love to see if I could hire you for a dream video project on a vessel of my own design. For a scifi universe I've designed.
A battle breakdown and analysis of the battle of chintoka would be not only an amazing spectacular experience of a video it could be in multiple parts would be a big project I know because of the nuclear of ships and orbital batteries but one hell of a video series
I still remember seeing at a drive in the Mohave desert of all places visiting family friends who lived there. And yes pushing 50 I still need out on all this crap.
In submarine terms, what Khan did when he turned the ship around and nearly collides with Enterprise is called a "Crazy Ivan." Russian subs used to do this all the time. It was like a high stakes game of "chicken."
Also you may recall the confusing nature of tiller orders (turning the rudder hard to port would require ordering the helm turned hard to starboard). I fear if I were a captain I would on occasion have to resort to saying “The side with the red light” and “The side with the green light”. :D
You got port and starboard mixed up. The Reliant's PORT nacelle was destroyed, not the STARBOARD one. Port = Left side / Starboard = Right side. An interesting history on where these names came from. Ships were built with the main gangway plank or cargo hold opening on the left side, hence this was the side they always came into port to transfer cargo and passengers. The Enterprise's main gangway hatch is on the PORT edge of the main saucer section. The main wheel house or rudder wheel was always offset slightly to the right of the main sailing mast. The "wheel" was also known as the "star" because of it's distinctive shape with radial spokes. Thus, that side of the ship was known as "star-board." Even on modern aircraft carriers the "bridge" or "island" is always on the "starboard" side of the flight deck. On aircraft with two front seats, the pilot's seat is always on the right or "starboard" side.
Most side by side seating in aircraft the pilot sits on the left side of the plane, and if you have two most have the command pilot or captain sits on the left. Or at least on the aircraft I have been in, from military cargo planes, Army helicopters, and civilian airliners. I have never seen a loan pilot or command pilot on the right. But that is civilian, Army and Air Force... could be different in the Navy. The tourist seat in the A-37 was on the right as the pilot was on the left.
@@resurrectedstarships Also when the RELIANT fired her warning shot with a torpedo your graphics shows the torpedo veering off to port rather than passing the starboard support pylon as in the movie. One tactic that Kahn doesn’t employ was to take out the impulse engines before the ENTERPRISE entered the nebula. One torpedo would have weakened the shields but a second one would have broken through and destroy the impulse engines….that’s the tactic I would have used.
US aircraft pilot from the port side (left). I couldn't say if its different for Commonwealth nations, like how they drive cars on the left side of the road (UK) rather than the right (US).
These breakdowns show just how much detail went into the Wrath of Khan's two fights. It's also one of the last films in the franchise to feature the inspiration for Star Trek; submarine fights. A cat and mouse chase that can make either ship the predator or the prey. The film from beginning to end is just a masterclass of how to have a consistent story. Despite being 40 years old, it holds up extremely well.
Jvstice, you're saying that the inspiration for Star Trek was submarine fights? I have never heard that before. What I have read before is that Star Trek was pitched to the network as "Wagon Train to the stars" because westerns were very popular at the time.
@@pike100 I think he means the combat aspect of TOS and TNG trek. As many of the original cast and crew were in fact WW2 Veterans and used a lot of the tactics from that conflict.
Interestingly, there is only one publicly acknowledged instance of one submerged submarine destroying another submerged submarine in combat. In February, 1945 off the coast of Norway, HMS Venturer under the command of Lt. James Stuart Launders defeating U-864 commanded by korvettenkapitan Ralf-Reimar Wolfram.
I like how there’s a sense of tightness to this battle. There’s a very real possibility they’ll run into one another, so Khan’s Crazy Ivan is more insane than most think. Also, while Khan’s thinking is two-dimensional, it’s the same flaw he had back in Space Seed. He’s superior in intellect, but inexperienced in his new arena. He’s used to thinking in terms of armies and battleships, not starships. Of weak modern humans, not the “evolved humans” of TOS. I’ve always assumed that Genesis was made from regula 1, but I could be wrong. My only real evidence is that it’s possible the reason it failed was because the Genesis Chamber within caused a feedback loop with the larger detonation. The Chamber itself wasn’t unstable, after all.
I figured the instability is it was both deployed sooner than anyone was ready for with none of the calibrations made FOR a deployment (likely wanting to input every variable for target mass, star luminocity, etc etc,) so the device jsut.... 'winged it' as it were when trying to make the nebula into something life compatible. And so sped up stellar evolution by a billion years. Which is why the planet itself broke apart. It was on an accelerated clock. By the time I saw next gen go int othe treaty of algernon? The coin dropped. Why wouldthe federation aggree to such a lopsided treaty? Everyone else feared their homeworlds would be targeted by cloaked ships with genesis devices. So 'we' give up all development of Genesis and outright outlaw any further research into proto-matter based technology and our neighbors suddenly view the federation as being far less of a risky neighbor.
Yes i think your right reliants radiation could of mutated the protomatter and made it so uncontrollable that must of caused the new genesis to blow to pieces
Nice work. What's brilliant about this movie is that it uses this universe to play in and battle in. The Enterprise uses the Nebula as a means to level the playing field and working technology to simple terms--captain to captain, ship to ship, battle conditions. Khan has always bragged about his superior abilities because he was part of the Eugenics War, but in truth it is Kirk who outsmarts him--genetics gives Khan an advantage in strength and speed, but it is Kirk's experience as a captain that beats Khan and his crew helps him. And, perhaps most importantly, his XO helps him the most and Kirk trusts him and follows his observation, meanwhile Khan only trusts himself, Joaquin is abandoned. Checkmate to Kirk and the Enterprise.
Sadly though... the nebula was BS. The only way this would have worked is if they flew into the cloud layer of a Gas Giant. There is no such thing as a nebula that you could "hide" in,... and Star Trek continued to make this mistake for ages. It wouldn't be until the Deep Space Nine episode "Starship Down" that this would finally be done properly.
Agreed Kahn’s “Explain to them!” is equivalent to ordering a shot across the bow. Kahn is an egotistical masochistic megalomaniac. It is not enough just to destroy the Enterprise and go on to do whatever he wills, which would have been the intelligent choice. He must dominate, inflicting as much pain, humiliation and suffering as possible, which is his undoing!
Warning shot? What kind of warning? Khan intended to destroy the Enterprise no matter what. Warning shots only work when you actually don't want to destroy the target but threaten to do so if certain circumstances are acchieved.
Showing how Kirk was always fighting against a stronger opponent is a point that I believe a lot of people miss about the story in "The Wrath of Kahn."
15:09 I agree that Kirk didn't outright destroy the Reliant due to how close they were and the risk of releasing anti-matter into the surroundings. That was immediate death or crippling the Enterprise at best. Letting the Genisis device countdown gave the crew time to somehow get warp power back online, which we know works in the end due to Spock's solution to a no-win scenario. Amazing how much this movie can be analyzed so many years later.
One of the best damn space battles in cinema gets one of the best damn breakdowns. good video sir! To quote Bones at the end; "He's really not dead, as long as we remember him..." I was a kid when I saw this in theaters. My cousin who was a HUGE Trekkie took us all to see it. Her and I were in tears when Spock died, and admittedly I still get misty when that scene comes.
The Mutara Nebula may have a pulsar at its center. One exterior shot shows a bright flickering light - not a discharge, but an area of thinner gases that allowed light momentarily from the pulsar to shine through. This also may be the unmentioned ‘sun’ that lit the surface of the newborn Genesis planet (the novelization mentions that the Genesis device also provided a small sun to warm and light the new world-but credibility is strained paper thin already, so I don’t accept the premise. The Marcus’s said they were going to reconfigure worlds in already established solar systems. No mention was made of providing a star as well. Why would they? Their intent was to reconfigure uninhabited planets that already had stars).
I know the books aren't considered canon but from what I remember the Genesis Device was actually successful. What went wrong was there was not enough matter in the Nebula to make a planet and a star for the planet. Star Fleet told the galaxy the device was no good in order to suppress it (along with destroying all data about it) because even though the scientists were making it to make life easier for everyone plenty of people in the Federation and other empires like the Klingons also saw it for what it was: A perfect weapon. Wipe out your enemy and terraform his planet so you can live on it. The novel was Star Trek The Next Generation: Genesis Wave (2000)
Phenomenal analysis. You have made me reassess so many things about this movie. I love the idea that it was Khan vs. Spock at its core. It really was Spock's Kobayashi Maru.
Thank you so much for caring about this movie to take the time for this project. This is probably the greatest battle scene in all of science fiction. Great job. My younger brother passed away three years ago, he and I loved this movie since it came out. He would have loved this video. P.S. Khan's buddy was named Joakim, like Joakim Noah who played for the Chicago Bulls
9:20 - We actually do see the torpedo miss the Enterprise. It passes within meters of the secondary hull and the turbulence from its engines causes the ship to shutter.
OMFG! HAHAHAHA! Forty years I've always thought Scotty said, "a fuses short" or "the fuses short" but you're right he actually says "a few shots sir" in response. I opened the movie and went right to that scene and put on the captions. Right there in writing. "A few shots sir." Now I can also hear it clear as day as well. Amazing. Great video as well. Keep it up. Edit: The torpedo Khan fires before the nebula misses. It flies past the pylon and under the saucer of the ship. Why does Enterprise shake? Movie stuff to provide atmosphere for the viewer. But if you want to play the technobabble game you can say the torp pushing into the nebula caused waves to shake the Enterprise.
Love TWoK, just love it. Great breakdown. I always assumed, even as a kid, that Regula is what gets terraformed into Genesis. I was shocked when I got older to learn there isn't a clear consensus on this.
I managed to catch a re-escreening of WoK at a local cinema for its anniversary, and My God, the effects still hold up, beautiful!! And framing the fight like two old sailing ships of war was inspired.
Lol. I got to do this as well. young dude brought his girlfriend who had never seen the movie. I waited till the earwig scene and looked over to see her squirming in her seat and her boyfriend watching her reaction.
This movie still stands up as one of the best sci fi movies ever made and with some of the best military tactical battle sequences ever put on film. Ricardo Montalban is superb portraying the villain Khan, who is as obsessed with Admiral Kirk as Captain Ahab is with Moby Dick.
I love that since Kirk and Khan never share a room and all their interactions are via viewscreen, William Shatner and Ricardo Montaban never met during filming and their respective scenes were shot several months apart. All that amazing dialogue? Done vs a script lady.
For years I never knew that when Spock says "Sauce for the goose" he's saying the early version of "What's good for the goose is good for the gander"; it's such an interesting character moment for alien science guy Spock to reference a centuries-old earth idiom
Loved the analysis of this battle. Still is probably the best battle in sci fi. Often imitated looking you Titan Shrike duel from Picard season 3. The sheer tension of it all. Edge of your seat boredom so to speak broken by moments of sheer terror. It really did feel so real as far as the cat and mouse game.
This is outstanding. I have been a Trekkie for over 30 years and have been creatively active for most of that time, either doing 3D work, organizing conventions and so forth. I have to say that this is by far THE best battle simulation from any Star Trek, movie or series, that I have seen. The 3D is very nice, the audio is excellent, as well as the commentary. I know from own experience how time consuming these multi-discipline projects are, but this was clearly a time well spent for you. This was a pure joy to watch, thank you.
Joaquin was more then just Khan's number one, he was his son. Born from Lt. Marla McGivers, Khans wife, who left the Enterprise in Space Seed to be with Khan.
@@parallax3d How do you know he wasn't 15? He is the son of a genetically engineered super human. Puberty probably hit like a ton of bricks at 10 years old for him.
@@parallax3d I always read that Kirk was supposed to be 52 in TWOK. As he was 32 in the 2nd season of TOS, that would be 20 years later. Joaquin and David were supposed to be reflections of each other, like Kirk and Khan were of each other: both of them with a "perfect blonde haired, blue eyed son", but where one had his son his whole life, Kirk never did. When Kirk hears about David, he wants to be a father, but David wants nothing to do with him. Joaquin tries to fill in where his mother was (to talk reason), but since Khan takes him for granted, he doesn't really listen. I figured Joaquin was Khan's son (even back when I was 12 and saw it 1982) simply because only Khan's son would be able to get away with questioning Khan's orders in front of their people.
@@EVAUnit4A I don't think so. I do believe he was his son. He was too young to be any of the original 72 super humans from the Botany Bay. Joaquin was likely named in honor of the Joaquin from Space Seed who likely died soon after they were marooned. Khan said the Ceti eel killed 20 of his people.
@@pepperVenge 'If it's not on-screen, it doesn't count.' _Aside from_ casting a different actor for the movie (which I do not know why that happened), there is no evidence within either "Space Seed" or _The Wrath of Khan_ to suggest there are two different characters named "Joachim".
correction: The bridge shot to the Reliant actually connected. However, there is an outer shell layer over the bridge inner shell which houses a significant amount of equipment and mechanical spaces, which took the hit, combined with hitting on the very edge of the bridge structure.
It was brought up by Spock about repairs to the Enterprise after Kirk,Saavik,Bones,Chekov,Carol and David were rescued as Spock stated that they were able to restore partial main power in 2 hours as apparently most of the Enterprise's systems including the turbolifts were inoperative below C Deck and they had to use the Jefferies tubes to get upto the bridge.
Another nebula seen in Star Trek was the Paulson Nebula seen in the TNG Season 3 episode 'Best of Both Worlds Part 2' which looks just like the Mutara Nebula and Ensign Wesley Crusher stated 'The Field is getting too dense' and there was another nebula mentioned in the Star Trek Voyager episode 'Flashback' where the U.S.S. Excelsior tried to sneak into Klingon space in order to rescue Kirk and McCoy but ended up encountering a Klingon K'Tinga Class BattleCruiser under the command of Kang an old adversary of Kirk.
The one thing that is obviously missing in the movie is what Khan plans to do with the Genesis device. Since he demanded from Kirk all data and materiel one might get the idea that he already has a plan for it. I can imagine that either he just plans use it to either find himself a suitable planet and terraform it, disregarding any lifeforms that are upon it or he might even go after Earth since he had been kicked from that planet and since by then he already would've finished off Kirk it was time to finish off Earth as well and take possession of earth in it's new form, not knowing that even that new "Earth" would destroy itself shortly afterwards.
"We tried it once your way, Khan -- are you game for a rematch?" Geez, now I need to watch it again! I never pieced together that Khan didn't realize Kirk was on the Enterprise again right before they were entering the nebula. Really nice work on all of these, it's magical hearing the "buzzsaw" ST2 phasers again! Do you know why they never used ship phasers in the remaining TOS movies? Was alwas curious. I love how your tactical graphics tie into the GUI they had in ST2 also, sure that took some serious effort.
Thank you - well I think the reason might have been is that ILM did not work on anything past ST3 - so it was harder for the other studios to get the phasers right. Its even hard for me using blender 3d, and thanks for the superthanks!
@@resurrectedstarships of course, keep up the sweet videos! That makes total sense too with the switch from ILM too. Well you nailed them here plus the classic flickers spider leg photons ;)
Also in the Star Trek films that ultimately came to release Star Trek 3 could have used them but do to the style of story the only ship encounter was before the films climax. Then Star Trek 6 in the final battle. The other two films didn't even have occasion to use Phasers given the scripts used. This may have been by design given Roddenberry still had quite a bit to say so it's possible because Roddenberry's style was more sci fi and less action based.
Did Khan’s torpedo, prior to the nebula, miss? Scotty says the shields were up at that point (energizer bypassed like a Christmas tree) and the ship shakes from an impact that a miss couldn’t have caused. Could be the nebula but we get a scene showing the entry later. So I’d say the torpedo hit the shields near the aft left nacelle pylon.
The torp missed. We see it fly by the pylon and under the saucer section. Why does the ship shake? Movie stuff. Also Scotty says nothing about shields being up. Kirk asks him if the ship can make it to the Nebula and Scotty's response: "The energizer's bypassed like a Christmas tree so don't give me too many bumps."
Haha for Kahn! Despite all the chances he had to destroy Kirk, He was only able to get out one more hit on the enterprise in the nebula! And it didn't do anything but damage one torpedo room... Kirk then returned fire killing Kahn son Joshuam! So much for the superior intellect!
it actually passes by the ship and appears to detonate either just before the ship or directly under the saucer, possibly because they didn't really know how to depict the torpedo going off without hitting something.
I'd also heard it as "a few shorts, sir." I assumed that was a reference to the overall power. That they could manage a few short shots, and not a long continuous barrage. We know that phasers can fire long continuous beams from the series. But here, they fire a relatively short salvo.
Kahn fought like a surface Navy Ahab. Kirk and Spock with years of space fighting fought like a sub driver. They took advantage of steath by elements and 3D warfare. Still the best battle in all Star Trek. Now starfighter and B5 uses a more airforce based fight though B5 combines Navy and Airforce methods in space, with a touch of marine at times.
You did a fantastic job..both episodes.! "2-DIMENSIONAL TACTICS", fighter pilots, and submarine commanders still fail to get over, today, in real combat, however, the visceral nature of their environments and fights..force most to adapt..usually, or you hear of the failings..in more than merely fine works of fiction.
"... YOURS ISsssaa SUPERIOR!!" Truly Superior Tactical rendition of this "space battle"....A CLASSIC in Star Trek lore. With a few minor/Major goofs, I give Your video a 9.7/10, due to previous comments of "starboard" nacelle shot-off and way the re-encounter of ENTERPRISE and RELIANT engagement at Mutara where the torpedo goes left instead of passing right, under the starboard nacelle strut of ENTERPRISE. BUT, other-than-those...a TRUE Work of ART. You, 'Resurrected Starships', are Truly talented!!! Your Graphics, narration, and ability of putting this together .......... there is Really No Words, except .... "KHAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!" A B I G Sci-Fi fan....Anything Sci-Fi, I'm watchin!!
I hadn't considered the idea that the nebula they went into was specifically the stellar nursery part of a nebula, but it makes sense. Terminology changes over time, so perhaps 'nebula' has by the 23rd century become a narrower term than it's used as today, and 'Mutara' was the name given that specific stellar nursery in a larger cloud with a different name.
We do see the torpedo graze Enterprise and then a cut to the interior showing everyone being shaken by its effects. In the novelization, Reliant strafes Enterprise several times with her phasers, but Enterprise's shields repel them.
Beautiful work on the videos! The ships look perfect. As far as what the Genesis Effect did, I always believed the new Genesis Planet was the terraformed Regula planetoid. In the nebula fight, the large flickering mass behind Reliant seemed to be a dead star, either neutron or a pulsar, and Genesis stabilized it to shine on the newly terraformed Regula. I just assumed that Genesis was powerful but not magical. It couldn't conjure up the matter to create a planet and a star. Just my two cents. Thanks for the videos!
at 11:54 you show the enterprise staying straight while khan turns around, if you look in the movie, as Khan orders, "AFT TORPEDOES: FIRE!" you will notice Enterprise int he background is turning hard to starboard, changing her position.
That was absolutely amazing! I'm only 34 but ST II and III were my intro to trek at age 7. And my favorite trek media. Thanks for this!! And please keep em coming.. man that last shot of firing Spocks coffin down to genesis . The way you framed that shot. Goosebumps!!
Slight correction: Planetary nebulas aren't a result of a Super-nova, rather the ejection of the outer shell of a main-sequence star that underwent a red giant phase. This means, no stellar remnant of the neuron star or black hole type and the mother star is still alive, that is fusing elements at this point. Port = left.
@@3Rayfire i'm sorry, i probably didn't express my thoughts concisely enough. I was referring to use of the term planetary nebula. It was mentioned in the video, that those are results of supernovae, while IRL they aren't. I didn't mean that they wouldn't have a nearby star for the planet to revolve around to. You do make a good point though. IRL Tau Ceti is a star that is extremely similar to our own sun Sol. That would mean it's way too young to shedding it's outer layers. So it's another argument against the nebula being planetary.
Doing everything by yourself...that comment is what made me decide to subscribe to your channel...I don't do it often...only when I'm truly impressed with a channel do I subscribe....and I im truly impressed with what you do...and I love the "Id be Dead Inside" comment
Great video, good sir! One small point, however. At 9:19 you mention the torpedo Khan launched at the Enterprise as she was trying to make for the Nebula. That torpedo wasn't intended to hit the Enterprise; it was a warning shot. Recall the scene: Khan's second in command says that they will loose the Enterprise if they enter the Nebula. Khan replies "Explain it to them!" The torpedo is fired and it passes close by the Enterprise, a fact that Savic comments on. Kirk then assures her: "They just don't want us going in there." Khan wanted to engage the Enterprise on his own terms, out in clear space. That torpedo was effectively saying "HEY! Get back here and fight me!"
Excellent! I would love to see you do a tactical breakdown of the "The Best Of Both Worlds, Part I" From the Borg Cube intercepting the Enterprise-D up to the point where the Enterprise-D flees the Paulson Nebula and the Borg seize the ship and capture Picard and then proceed to Earth. That would be so cool. Plus if you created those models I would so buy them. :D
Great breakdown. You make a really great point when you say that this over 40 year old movie's visual effects still look good. The fans are still taking about this battle... meanwhile all the pew pews of modern trek just looks foolish.
It really comes through how much the writers and director wanted all of this to make sense tactically and visually. This movie has the best space battles for a good reason. They aren't even very long sequences, but there's so much packed into them, and it all just makes sense and plays out logically.
I think it was Meyers who said he toured a modern US submarine before directing this movie? This would explain the ambiance. Thanks so much for the superthanks!
So... about the results of the Genesis detonation. I'm on Team "It Formed a Planet." I like the idea that one of the major components of the device is transporter technology -- breaking down matter to energy, but then filling it into a new pattern to convert it to organic matter. The graphic sequence that Kirk and crew watch implies that it just sweeps the surface but I like the idea that what the device does is envelop the entire planet, doing things through the core to guarantee that you have a life-giving planet. Things like making sure it has an aligned magnetic field for example. If the "pattern maker" inside the device can "design" an entire planet, it does suddenly make sense how it can cause a planet to spring from nowhere. (Probably something the Marcus'es would have theorized but weren't intent on making part of their test detonation.) Just to get all topical, maybe the device basically had machine learning embedded in it. Basically, Genesis was an AI-generated planet :D Making a sun is a bridge too far for me, in my mind there's just a star / protostar at the center of the Mutara. I loved this sequence of videos. There were honestly some points where I got confused whether I was looking at frames from the movie or at the work you did! Brilliant job.
Wanted to echo a bit of what others have said. First a tremendous job with your simulations and videos. They are first rate. As to the Genesis planet - the novel isn't Canon (is anything anymore, lol) - but it essentially describes that the Genesis devise was still in proof of concept phase. Carol's proposal vid says that even in phase 3 it was still a prototype. In TWoK and TSfS novels, David talks about how many things they'd programmed into the matrix that they'd deactivated for testing purposes. He speaks of lifeforms like flying dragons they'd put in, whimsical things, that had been deactivated to allow the matrix to form at a simpler proof level. He wondered how much of the main operational programming Khan- in messing with the machinery - activated back into the matrix. One of his ongoing thoughts is half expecting to see his dragons tho they were just an "easter egg" in the code. David said that one reason why Genesis was unstable was that the AI - for lack of a better term - that directed matrix formation was forced into a full system terraform when it was only set up for a existing planet proof of concept test. That is - the AI was expecting to terraform an existing dead planet. But the groundwork had been laid in the code to create an entire star system, it just wasn't complete or turned on yet. But it found itself inside a nebula without a planet or a star. So it interpreted its instructions the best it could and thus used the deactivated programming that still existed in the system to force the creation of a star and planet as if it were a full system terraform. A fully operational full power set of matrix code was used - but it only had a proof of concept test amount of power to work with. Genesis was underpowered for what it tried to do. So the Genesis AI built what it was capable of - except the matrix was set up with the wrong set of initial conditions. It was expecting a dead but fully formed planet to work with but it had gas and dust without even a star. So the creation was incomplete. That's why the protomatter was unstable in the planet but the new Genesis star was stable. It took so much energy and computation power out of the matrix to form the star properly when it wasn't set up to do that yet, that the planet was incomplete and unstable. That was not what he was hoping for or expected. David said Genesis was a success beyond anyone's dreams considering what it had done with the material it had, bad initial conditions, no scientific control etc. And that's why it had to end. He understood the dangers of weaponizing the tech when it was properly set up when it did this with essentially a misfire. Which is why he led everyone to believe it was a failure.
I like that you added this epic battle had two, "yes, only two," starships. A lesson for today where no movie set in space can be "epic" without hundreds of CGI ships firing thousands of torpedoes to a point it's all meaningless. It's the same as how Kirk and Khan are never once in the same room at the same time in this movie. There was no need for Kirk and Khan to have a martial arts fist fight at the end, or break out conveniently placed swords, and then Kirk escapes seconds before Khan dies a horrible death. Indeed, Khan dies believing the Enterprise won't escape and never sees it warp away at the last second. That could never be allowed in a movie today; Khan would have to see Kirk escape and scream "KIIIIIIIRRRRRRRK!" or similar schlock.
A great breakdown and I also love you highlighting the message of the film in the year. I am much the same way for the passing of Spock it is a tear jerker for me too probably more in my adult life than as a kid because hardly a day goes by in which I'm not watching not only something Star Trek but having read the extended universe along with Nimoy's books, and to see Spock go through the trials of his life it really hits home even though he tried to be Vulcan his reaction much like the Galileo Seven ending was a human response in the end.
Our shields are dropping. Well raise them! I can’t! Kirk orders, “Fire!” I love the dialogue too. Learn why things work on a starship. Now you know where the concept of Remote Desktop for computers or Sidecar came from
God, Jefferies did an awesome job with the OG enterprise and what an amazing update they made it with the Conny refit. I grew up on TNG, but I always gushed over the Refit whenever the movies where on TV.
Good two part videos. By the way we did see Reliant fire a torpedo as they were chasing the Enterprise into the Mutara Nebula. Joachim said, "If they go in there we'll loose them." Khan says, "Explain it to them." Joachim gives the order to fire and the Reliant does fire the torpedo but it barely misses them.
It is interesting that the sound of the phasers is different, if you look up the trailer for Star Trek 2 they sound a lot more like searing lightning bolts than the pew pew noise that they ended up using in the final cut of the movie.
An additional possibility for detecting the approach of the USS Reliant by the USS Enterprise could be some sort of atmospheric ducting of the Reliant's active sensor transmissions. It is very common for certain frequencies of RF energy (particularly shortwave) to bounce of ionized gasses, or perhaps even be scattered off the nebula itself. In this case, since the Enterprise is running with the Reliant in pursuit, the reliant would be actively and passively scanning for any sign of Kirk and the crew while the Eterprise would be only passively scanning. Meaning she would not be broadcasting her location to Reliant. Even if operating silent (say under EMCON) the passive sensor receivers on Enterprise would be able to detect the increase in the signal intensity of Reliant's sensors as she approached. With sensitive enough receivers and an super discrete filter to eliminate enough noise you could get a measurable increase in signal intensity indicating a closing plot, which would only tell you that Reliant is getting closer; it would not give accurate direction to the source without line of sight due to the irregularity of the scattered signals. This is probably the most likely solution, I would think.
My sister took me to see this on July 4th, 1982. I called her this year in July to remind her that we saw this movie 42 years ago and asked if she felt old now.
12:17 Minor detail to note here, in the actual movie itself, the phaser shot doesn't just hit close to the Reliant's bridge, it flat out scrapes the bridge module itself and rips out a good chunk of the airlock section just behind it.
You made a great point. It was Captain Spock who made all the right calls and saved his ship. Even the big Kirk prefix command moment, Spock already had it planned out.
"Sporadic energy readings, portside aft. Could be an Impulse Power turn." - Spock. They were definitely following anomalous sensor readings to find the Reliant. amusingly, Khan's people just stared at the viewscreens. Also, Khan created that lightshow: watch the scene again and you'll see it specifically originates from the Impulse Engines.
A brilliant review of STTWOK. Unlike all the other films, director Nicholas Meyer really brought a sense of naval warfare and drama that helps make this one of the best (if not the best) in the series. FWIW, years ago I read the official novelization to Star Trek III. In that they specifically stated that the Genesis device transformed the gaseous matter of the nebula to create both the Genesis planet and the star it revolved around. It never explained why (maybe there's an "add star" option menu on the device 😅). I believe that in the novel both the planet and its sun were unstable and ended up blowing up.
The non-canon novelisation of TSFS goes into detail on how the Genesis Planet was formed. It was created out of the Mutara Nebula along with the star. It also has an extensive "prologue": The Enterprise returns to Regula 1 to meet with the Grissom, pick up the corpses from Space Lab and retrieve the Genesis data storage from the cave. This is where the problems with Genesis first become apparent with intoxicating vines overgrowing the cave and Saavik and David acting strange because of these.
Think the analysis on a stellar nursery is correct, however when the Genesis device detonates I believe it speeds up the formation of the stellar material. It likely does destroy Regula 1, and the moon it has, due to the subspace shock wave that it emitted. The Enterprise even at wrap barely gets clear of the shock wave as you can see the rings of the shock wave that are still forming ahead of the Enterprise through subspace. A subspace blast is also shown or talked about in two different movies besides Star Trek 2. Those movies are Star Trek 6, The Undiscovered Country, and JJ's Star Trek with the destruction of Romulus.
The Wrath of Khan novelization explicitly states that the Enterprise was making use of the Regula I space station to relay telemetry to Enterprise on the planetoid's far side.
like to mention, great vids, but one a few key details left out by not going off of official documents, is the fact that reliant's phasers were hooked directly into the warp core's main power, which is why they were unable to fire after the first attack during the interception. This detail also explains why the damage shown on the display when spock was describing the damage after the first hit during the interception attack showed damage on both sides of the engineering hull, Reliant's phasers were powerful enough due to drawing directly from the warp core that it literally would be able to tear STRAIGHT THROUGH the hull of an unshielded vessel from one side to the other! Just putting some notes out there, great videos tho!
Incredible effect - how did you make the NGC 1976 Orion nebula 3D? I also disagree that the nebula is a stellar nursery. The density and shield-disabling effects of the nebula I think are consistent with a pulsar wind nebula. Such nebulae are denser, which may cause the drag shown to deccelerate Enterprise (although this is still too pronounced) and would contain concerning amounts of radiation (due to the pulsar) that could theoretically interfere with starship shields. We do see a pulsar-like effect in the film. There is a pulsating light that is eclipsed by Reliant, obscuring its visibility from the audience until it emergences and strikes Enterprise's port torpedo bay. (You reference this yourself as a "light show".) What you are describing by what you think Spock means when he says they are entering the nebula, is potentially either of a bok globule, or cometary knot. We can reason that this nebula is a few light years from the star Alpha Ceti (Ceti Alpha?), interestingly close to Omicron Ceti (featured in TOS: This Side of Paradise and TNG: Conspiracy). It is doubtful that Enterprise could have arrived here, departing from Earth in days, but ignoring the speed discrepancies, the nearest pulsar would still be hundreds of light years distant (potentially PSR J0108+1431). There is a useful catalogue of pulsar wind nebulae: www.physics.mcgill.ca/~pulsar/pwncat.html And it can be used in conjunction with the ATNF pulsar catalogue for more detailed information: www.atnf.csiro.au/research/pulsar/psrcat/ From what I recall, there was no likely candidate, but I was not expecting much.
He made a slight mistake there as it wasn't the Reliant's starboard nacelle that was sheered off by the Enterprise's torpedo strike it was the port nacelle.
A thought. I have, on an occasion or two, had Yellow Alert explained to me as a time when energy was shunted into the ship's defensive systems. This would also include cycling phaser capacitors and inducers, located near the turrets. So there's a possibility that Scotty's comments about having "a few shots" came from Kirk's yellow alert order, which would have primed the ship's phasers for their first shots if they wound up in a dogfight. I'm not sure if battery power alone would have been enough. I do agree in either case that the Enterprise was barely manuverable enough and didn't have enough offensive armament left to do more damage in the counterattack.
The missed torpedo was from range, but wasn't a wild shot. It was either meant to be a warning, or meant to hit Port nacelle pylon or the "neck", its plainly visible. Keep in mind even without main power, 1701 refit phasers are still a match for reliant which still has main power. WOK was the first time we see the hero ship badly beaten and in a subsequent movie, destroyed. The fallen hero.
Checkout part 1 at ua-cam.com/video/PaaylvdM8X4/v-deo.html
Support the channel on at patreon.com/resurrected
or buy a model at cgtrader.com/loststarships - also accepting 3d commissions - preferably for space/scifi/ or even marine-based projects! - Find my email and contact in my main channel description!
Could you do a tactical analysis on the battle above the Genesis planet from Star Trek III between the Enterprise and the Klingon Bird of Prey.
I really like your videos I appreciate that you take the time and thought in to them and give them the better quality. It's always worth the wait. And I have looked for an email but I can't find an email for your contact I've checked the UA-cam page and I can't find one or a link for contact. I'd love to see if I could hire you for a dream video project on a vessel of my own design. For a scifi universe I've designed.
shoot me a message at loststarships@gmail.com and let me know what you have in mind! @@jaredcolon4535
Tactical analysis of the Battle of Kitomer from the Undiscovered Country??? Bringing it full circle from the episode Balance of Terror.
A battle breakdown and analysis of the battle of chintoka would be not only an amazing spectacular experience of a video it could be in multiple parts would be a big project I know because of the nuclear of ships and orbital batteries but one hell of a video series
You know, it’s been 42 years since Star Trek 2 came out and we’re still talking about The Battle of the Mutara Nebula. We’re not nerdy. Not at all.
Nope . Thats my story and I am sticking to it . :)
We’re not nerds we’re geeks, we have a healthy love for proper science fiction storytelling and the possibility of strategic space exploration/combat.
I still remember seeing at a drive in the Mohave desert of all places visiting family friends who lived there. And yes pushing 50 I still need out on all this crap.
41 years, 5 months, and 21 days actually. How's that for nerdy?
It’s only logical
In submarine terms, what Khan did when he turned the ship around and nearly collides with Enterprise is called a "Crazy Ivan." Russian subs used to do this all the time. It was like a high stakes game of "chicken."
Ahh yes, the hunt for red october vibes.
They really did that . Russian captains.
"You arrogant ass. You've killed US!"
@@shanenolan5625 I know, it's clearing (the) baffles to check whats behind You. First time in a movie was in red october.
@@redFractionR3D ironically, TWOK was released two years *before* The Hunt for Red October first hit bookshop shelves
Port engine nacelle. Not starboard.
Your work is still 10/10. Thank you.
an easy mixup to do, still do that on occasion though
He's just reading a report from one of the Enterprise cadet crew who got it backwards. 😂
Also you may recall the confusing nature of tiller orders (turning the rudder hard to port would require ordering the helm turned hard to starboard). I fear if I were a captain I would on occasion have to resort to saying “The side with the red light” and “The side with the green light”. :D
You got port and starboard mixed up. The Reliant's PORT nacelle was destroyed, not the STARBOARD one. Port = Left side / Starboard = Right side. An interesting history on where these names came from. Ships were built with the main gangway plank or cargo hold opening on the left side, hence this was the side they always came into port to transfer cargo and passengers. The Enterprise's main gangway hatch is on the PORT edge of the main saucer section. The main wheel house or rudder wheel was always offset slightly to the right of the main sailing mast. The "wheel" was also known as the "star" because of it's distinctive shape with radial spokes. Thus, that side of the ship was known as "star-board." Even on modern aircraft carriers the "bridge" or "island" is always on the "starboard" side of the flight deck. On aircraft with two front seats, the pilot's seat is always on the right or "starboard" side.
Tis possible i could have made a mistake!
Most side by side seating in aircraft the pilot sits on the left side of the plane, and if you have two most have the command pilot or captain sits on the left. Or at least on the aircraft I have been in, from military cargo planes, Army helicopters, and civilian airliners. I have never seen a loan pilot or command pilot on the right. But that is civilian, Army and Air Force... could be different in the Navy. The tourist seat in the A-37 was on the right as the pilot was on the left.
@@resurrectedstarships Also when the RELIANT fired her warning shot with a torpedo your graphics shows the torpedo veering off to port rather than passing the starboard support pylon as in the movie.
One tactic that Kahn doesn’t employ was to take out the impulse engines before the ENTERPRISE entered the nebula. One torpedo would have weakened the shields but a second one would have broken through and destroy the impulse engines….that’s the tactic I would have used.
US aircraft pilot from the port side (left). I couldn't say if its different for Commonwealth nations, like how they drive cars on the left side of the road (UK) rather than the right (US).
Port is left in the royal Air force too.
I like to remember it as port and left having the same amount of letters
These breakdowns show just how much detail went into the Wrath of Khan's two fights. It's also one of the last films in the franchise to feature the inspiration for Star Trek; submarine fights. A cat and mouse chase that can make either ship the predator or the prey.
The film from beginning to end is just a masterclass of how to have a consistent story. Despite being 40 years old, it holds up extremely well.
Jvstice, you're saying that the inspiration for Star Trek was submarine fights? I have never heard that before. What I have read before is that Star Trek was pitched to the network as "Wagon Train to the stars" because westerns were very popular at the time.
@@pike100 I think he means the combat aspect of TOS and TNG trek. As many of the original cast and crew were in fact WW2 Veterans and used a lot of the tactics from that conflict.
Interestingly, there is only one publicly acknowledged instance of one submerged submarine destroying another submerged submarine in combat. In February, 1945
off the coast of Norway, HMS Venturer under the command of Lt. James Stuart Launders defeating U-864 commanded by korvettenkapitan Ralf-Reimar Wolfram.
I'd argue that The Undiscovered Country includes a "submarine fight", although it's very much more a submarine versus surface vessel fight.
1:20 You're a one man army. Blender and similar programmes aren't particularly user friendly so props to you.
In the novel, Spock explains that the Enterprise’s sensors are still down, but Regula One’s are fully functional.
The fact that you can do all this via Blender is just amazing. It's been awesome watching your skills grow across the 3d vfx pipeline
Thank you! I still have a lot to learn about being efficient. But I prefer to learn something new with every project. Thanks again, so helpful!
I like how there’s a sense of tightness to this battle. There’s a very real possibility they’ll run into one another, so Khan’s Crazy Ivan is more insane than most think.
Also, while Khan’s thinking is two-dimensional, it’s the same flaw he had back in Space Seed. He’s superior in intellect, but inexperienced in his new arena. He’s used to thinking in terms of armies and battleships, not starships. Of weak modern humans, not the “evolved humans” of TOS.
I’ve always assumed that Genesis was made from regula 1, but I could be wrong. My only real evidence is that it’s possible the reason it failed was because the Genesis Chamber within caused a feedback loop with the larger detonation. The Chamber itself wasn’t unstable, after all.
I figured the instability is it was both deployed sooner than anyone was ready for with none of the calibrations made FOR a deployment (likely wanting to input every variable for target mass, star luminocity, etc etc,) so the device jsut.... 'winged it' as it were when trying to make the nebula into something life compatible.
And so sped up stellar evolution by a billion years. Which is why the planet itself broke apart. It was on an accelerated clock. By the time I saw next gen go int othe treaty of algernon? The coin dropped. Why wouldthe federation aggree to such a lopsided treaty?
Everyone else feared their homeworlds would be targeted by cloaked ships with genesis devices. So 'we' give up all development of Genesis and outright outlaw any further research into proto-matter based technology and our neighbors suddenly view the federation as being far less of a risky neighbor.
Yes i think your right reliants radiation could of mutated the protomatter and made it so uncontrollable that must of caused the new genesis to blow to pieces
Nice work. What's brilliant about this movie is that it uses this universe to play in and battle in. The Enterprise uses the Nebula as a means to level the playing field and working technology to simple terms--captain to captain, ship to ship, battle conditions. Khan has always bragged about his superior abilities because he was part of the Eugenics War, but in truth it is Kirk who outsmarts him--genetics gives Khan an advantage in strength and speed, but it is Kirk's experience as a captain that beats Khan and his crew helps him. And, perhaps most importantly, his XO helps him the most and Kirk trusts him and follows his observation, meanwhile Khan only trusts himself, Joaquin is abandoned. Checkmate to Kirk and the Enterprise.
Sadly though... the nebula was BS. The only way this would have worked is if they flew into the cloud layer of a Gas Giant. There is no such thing as a nebula that you could "hide" in,... and Star Trek continued to make this mistake for ages. It wouldn't be until the Deep Space Nine episode "Starship Down" that this would finally be done properly.
A brilliant analysis of one of Sci-fi's greatest ship duels. Well done
9:17 Khan was firing a warning shot.
Agreed Kahn’s “Explain to them!” is equivalent to ordering a shot across the bow. Kahn is an egotistical masochistic megalomaniac. It is not enough just to destroy the Enterprise and go on to do whatever he wills, which would have been the intelligent choice. He must dominate, inflicting as much pain, humiliation and suffering as possible, which is his undoing!
@@parallax3d
"That was close"
"They just don't want us to go in there."
I always found it funny that Joachim and Kirk both speak fluent torpedo.
Warning shot? What kind of warning? Khan intended to destroy the Enterprise no matter what. Warning shots only work when you actually don't want to destroy the target but threaten to do so if certain circumstances are acchieved.
Showing how Kirk was always fighting against a stronger opponent is a point that I believe a lot of people miss about the story in "The Wrath of Kahn."
15:09 I agree that Kirk didn't outright destroy the Reliant due to how close they were and the risk of releasing anti-matter into the surroundings. That was immediate death or crippling the Enterprise at best. Letting the Genisis device countdown gave the crew time to somehow get warp power back online, which we know works in the end due to Spock's solution to a no-win scenario. Amazing how much this movie can be analyzed so many years later.
One of the best damn space battles in cinema gets one of the best damn breakdowns. good video sir! To quote Bones at the end; "He's really not dead, as long as we remember him..." I was a kid when I saw this in theaters. My cousin who was a HUGE Trekkie took us all to see it. Her and I were in tears when Spock died, and admittedly I still get misty when that scene comes.
The Mutara Nebula may have a pulsar at its center. One exterior shot shows a bright flickering light - not a discharge, but an area of thinner gases that allowed light momentarily from the pulsar to shine through. This also may be the unmentioned ‘sun’ that lit the surface of the newborn Genesis planet (the novelization mentions that the Genesis device also provided a small sun to warm and light the new world-but credibility is strained paper thin already, so I don’t accept the premise. The Marcus’s said they were going to reconfigure worlds in already established solar systems. No mention was made of providing a star as well. Why would they? Their intent was to reconfigure uninhabited planets that already had stars).
That nebula you've created looks absolutely gorgeous 11/10
I know the books aren't considered canon but from what I remember the Genesis Device was actually successful. What went wrong was there was not enough matter in the Nebula to make a planet and a star for the planet. Star Fleet told the galaxy the device was no good in order to suppress it (along with destroying all data about it) because even though the scientists were making it to make life easier for everyone plenty of people in the Federation and other empires like the Klingons also saw it for what it was: A perfect weapon. Wipe out your enemy and terraform his planet so you can live on it. The novel was Star Trek The Next Generation: Genesis Wave (2000)
I thought it didn't work because the David Marcus used unstable matter to create it, causing the terraformed planet to quickly destabilize.
Phenomenal analysis. You have made me reassess so many things about this movie. I love the idea that it was Khan vs. Spock at its core. It really was Spock's Kobayashi Maru.
Yes it was! thank you so much for the superthanks!
Thank you so much for caring about this movie to take the time for this project. This is probably the greatest battle scene in all of science fiction. Great job. My younger brother passed away three years ago, he and I loved this movie since it came out. He would have loved this video. P.S. Khan's buddy was named Joakim, like Joakim Noah who played for the Chicago Bulls
9:20 - We actually do see the torpedo miss the Enterprise. It passes within meters of the secondary hull and the turbulence from its engines causes the ship to shutter.
Maybe is exploded close by
@@esecallum A close proximity explosion would have caused additional damage to the Enterprise, which is not reported.
@@BammerD depends on how close it exploded or just caused turbulence
OMFG! HAHAHAHA! Forty years I've always thought Scotty said, "a fuses short" or "the fuses short" but you're right he actually says "a few shots sir" in response. I opened the movie and went right to that scene and put on the captions. Right there in writing. "A few shots sir." Now I can also hear it clear as day as well. Amazing. Great video as well. Keep it up.
Edit: The torpedo Khan fires before the nebula misses. It flies past the pylon and under the saucer of the ship. Why does Enterprise shake? Movie stuff to provide atmosphere for the viewer. But if you want to play the technobabble game you can say the torp pushing into the nebula caused waves to shake the Enterprise.
Love TWoK, just love it. Great breakdown.
I always assumed, even as a kid, that Regula is what gets terraformed into Genesis. I was shocked when I got older to learn there isn't a clear consensus on this.
I managed to catch a re-escreening of WoK at a local cinema for its anniversary, and My God, the effects still hold up, beautiful!! And framing the fight like two old sailing ships of war was inspired.
I completely agree, it was amazing to watch in the theater recently. I nearly cheered when Khan's first attack happened but no one else was lol
Lol. I got to do this as well. young dude brought his girlfriend who had never seen the movie. I waited till the earwig scene and looked over to see her squirming in her seat and her boyfriend watching her reaction.
ILM's work always stands the test of time.
This movie still stands up as one of the best sci fi movies ever made and with some of the best military tactical battle sequences ever put on film. Ricardo Montalban is superb portraying the villain Khan, who is as obsessed with Admiral Kirk as Captain Ahab is with Moby Dick.
I love that since Kirk and Khan never share a room and all their interactions are via viewscreen, William Shatner and Ricardo Montaban never met during filming and their respective scenes were shot several months apart. All that amazing dialogue? Done vs a script lady.
For years I never knew that when Spock says "Sauce for the goose" he's saying the early version of "What's good for the goose is good for the gander"; it's such an interesting character moment for alien science guy Spock to reference a centuries-old earth idiom
He just learned it from his delightfully human mother.
Loved the analysis of this battle. Still is probably the best battle in sci fi. Often imitated looking you Titan Shrike duel from Picard season 3. The sheer tension of it all. Edge of your seat boredom so to speak broken by moments of sheer terror. It really did feel so real as far as the cat and mouse game.
This is outstanding.
I have been a Trekkie for over 30 years and have been creatively active for most of that time, either doing 3D work, organizing conventions and so forth. I have to say that this is by far THE best battle simulation from any Star Trek, movie or series, that I have seen. The 3D is very nice, the audio is excellent, as well as the commentary. I know from own experience how time consuming these multi-discipline projects are, but this was clearly a time well spent for you. This was a pure joy to watch, thank you.
Joaquin was more then just Khan's number one, he was his son. Born from Lt. Marla McGivers, Khans wife, who left the Enterprise in Space Seed to be with Khan.
@@parallax3d How do you know he wasn't 15? He is the son of a genetically engineered super human. Puberty probably hit like a ton of bricks at 10 years old for him.
@@parallax3d I always read that Kirk was supposed to be 52 in TWOK. As he was 32 in the 2nd season of TOS, that would be 20 years later. Joaquin and David were supposed to be reflections of each other, like Kirk and Khan were of each other: both of them with a "perfect blonde haired, blue eyed son", but where one had his son his whole life, Kirk never did. When Kirk hears about David, he wants to be a father, but David wants nothing to do with him. Joaquin tries to fill in where his mother was (to talk reason), but since Khan takes him for granted, he doesn't really listen.
I figured Joaquin was Khan's son (even back when I was 12 and saw it 1982) simply because only Khan's son would be able to get away with questioning Khan's orders in front of their people.
Umm... no, he wasn't. Joachim was specifically named in "Space Seed" (although portrayed by a different actor, compared to the movie).
@@EVAUnit4A I don't think so. I do believe he was his son. He was too young to be any of the original 72 super humans from the Botany Bay. Joaquin was likely named in honor of the Joaquin from Space Seed who likely died soon after they were marooned. Khan said the Ceti eel killed 20 of his people.
@@pepperVenge
'If it's not on-screen, it doesn't count.'
_Aside from_ casting a different actor for the movie (which I do not know why that happened), there is no evidence within either "Space Seed" or _The Wrath of Khan_ to suggest there are two different characters named "Joachim".
My license plate is KHAAAAN.
I am not joking.
correction: The bridge shot to the Reliant actually connected. However, there is an outer shell layer over the bridge inner shell which houses a significant amount of equipment and mechanical spaces, which took the hit, combined with hitting on the very edge of the bridge structure.
It was brought up by Spock about repairs to the Enterprise after Kirk,Saavik,Bones,Chekov,Carol and David were rescued as Spock stated that they were able to restore partial main power in 2 hours as apparently most of the Enterprise's systems including the turbolifts were inoperative below C Deck and they had to use the Jefferies tubes to get upto the bridge.
Another nebula seen in Star Trek was the Paulson Nebula seen in the TNG Season 3 episode 'Best of Both Worlds Part 2' which looks just like the Mutara Nebula and Ensign Wesley Crusher stated 'The Field is getting too dense' and there was another nebula mentioned in the Star Trek Voyager episode 'Flashback' where the U.S.S. Excelsior tried to sneak into Klingon space in order to rescue Kirk and McCoy but ended up encountering a Klingon K'Tinga Class BattleCruiser under the command of Kang an old adversary of Kirk.
The one thing that is obviously missing in the movie is what Khan plans to do with the Genesis device. Since he demanded from Kirk all data and materiel one might get the idea that he already has a plan for it.
I can imagine that either he just plans use it to either find himself a suitable planet and terraform it, disregarding any lifeforms that are upon it or he might even go after Earth since he had been kicked from that planet and since by then he already would've finished off Kirk it was time to finish off Earth as well and take possession of earth in it's new form, not knowing that even that new "Earth" would destroy itself shortly afterwards.
"We tried it once your way, Khan -- are you game for a rematch?"
Geez, now I need to watch it again!
I never pieced together that Khan didn't realize Kirk was on the Enterprise again right before they were entering the nebula. Really nice work on all of these, it's magical hearing the "buzzsaw" ST2 phasers again! Do you know why they never used ship phasers in the remaining TOS movies? Was alwas curious. I love how your tactical graphics tie into the GUI they had in ST2 also, sure that took some serious effort.
Thank you - well I think the reason might have been is that ILM did not work on anything past ST3 - so it was harder for the other studios to get the phasers right. Its even hard for me using blender 3d, and thanks for the superthanks!
@@resurrectedstarships of course, keep up the sweet videos! That makes total sense too with the switch from ILM too. Well you nailed them here plus the classic flickers spider leg photons ;)
Also in the Star Trek films that ultimately came to release Star Trek 3 could have used them but do to the style of story the only ship encounter was before the films climax. Then Star Trek 6 in the final battle. The other two films didn't even have occasion to use Phasers given the scripts used. This may have been by design given Roddenberry still had quite a bit to say so it's possible because Roddenberry's style was more sci fi and less action based.
Did Khan’s torpedo, prior to the nebula, miss? Scotty says the shields were up at that point (energizer bypassed like a Christmas tree) and the ship shakes from an impact that a miss couldn’t have caused. Could be the nebula but we get a scene showing the entry later. So I’d say the torpedo hit the shields near the aft left nacelle pylon.
The torp missed. We see it fly by the pylon and under the saucer section. Why does the ship shake? Movie stuff. Also Scotty says nothing about shields being up. Kirk asks him if the ship can make it to the Nebula and Scotty's response: "The energizer's bypassed like a Christmas tree so don't give me too many bumps."
I assumed it missed on purpose - Kahn's "explain it to them" sounds like he wanted a warning shot
Haha for Kahn!
Despite all the chances he had to destroy Kirk,
He was only able to get out one more hit on the enterprise in the nebula!
And it didn't do anything but damage one torpedo room...
Kirk then returned fire killing Kahn son Joshuam!
So much for the superior intellect!
@MatthewCaunsfield I whole-heartedly agree with you, Matthew. 👍
it actually passes by the ship and appears to detonate either just before the ship or directly under the saucer, possibly because they didn't really know how to depict the torpedo going off without hitting something.
I was only expecting the excellent battle analysis; your brief yet deep comments on the film itself took things to a whole other level:)
I guess Khan wanted Kirk to die slowly because he could have beamed him onto the Reliant. Awesome video!
I'd also heard it as "a few shorts, sir." I assumed that was a reference to the overall power. That they could manage a few short shots, and not a long continuous barrage.
We know that phasers can fire long continuous beams from the series. But here, they fire a relatively short salvo.
I've always liked that Chekov -after going through all the crap with the eel- gets to be the one to blast the hell out of the Reliant.
That thought never occurred to me until now. Makes perfect sense when you think about it.
Kahn fought like a surface Navy Ahab. Kirk and Spock with years of space fighting fought like a sub driver. They took advantage of steath by elements and 3D warfare. Still the best battle in all Star Trek. Now starfighter and B5 uses a more airforce based fight though B5 combines Navy and Airforce methods in space, with a touch of marine at times.
You did a fantastic job..both episodes.! "2-DIMENSIONAL TACTICS", fighter pilots, and submarine commanders still fail to get over, today, in real combat, however, the visceral nature of their environments and fights..force most to adapt..usually, or you hear of the failings..in more than merely fine works of fiction.
"... YOURS ISsssaa SUPERIOR!!"
Truly Superior Tactical rendition of this "space battle"....A CLASSIC in Star Trek lore.
With a few minor/Major goofs, I give Your video a 9.7/10, due to previous comments of "starboard" nacelle shot-off and way the re-encounter of ENTERPRISE and RELIANT engagement at Mutara where the torpedo goes left instead of passing right, under the starboard nacelle strut of ENTERPRISE.
BUT, other-than-those...a TRUE Work of ART. You, 'Resurrected Starships', are Truly talented!!! Your Graphics, narration, and ability of putting this together .......... there is Really No Words, except .... "KHAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!"
A B I G Sci-Fi fan....Anything Sci-Fi, I'm watchin!!
This is what UA-cam was made for. Thank you for this post. May God bless you for it.
I hadn't considered the idea that the nebula they went into was specifically the stellar nursery part of a nebula, but it makes sense. Terminology changes over time, so perhaps 'nebula' has by the 23rd century become a narrower term than it's used as today, and 'Mutara' was the name given that specific stellar nursery in a larger cloud with a different name.
We do see the torpedo graze Enterprise and then a cut to the interior showing everyone being shaken by its effects. In the novelization, Reliant strafes Enterprise several times with her phasers, but Enterprise's shields repel them.
Beautiful work on the videos! The ships look perfect. As far as what the Genesis Effect did, I always believed the new Genesis Planet was the terraformed Regula planetoid. In the nebula fight, the large flickering mass behind Reliant seemed to be a dead star, either neutron or a pulsar, and Genesis stabilized it to shine on the newly terraformed Regula. I just assumed that Genesis was powerful but not magical. It couldn't conjure up the matter to create a planet and a star. Just my two cents. Thanks for the videos!
I've seen a ton of Star Trek channels on UA-cam, but yours stood out and is very well done. Excellent work, kind sir, you've earned a sub today.
I always thought that the torpedo fired before entering the nebula was a warning shot.
It was…. After all Kahn did say “Explain it to them.”
Otherwise it would have been a very deadly explanation! 😁
@@anthonylowder6687But Khan was gonna destroy the Enterprise anyway and they knew it. So how was it a warning shot?
at 11:54 you show the enterprise staying straight while khan turns around, if you look in the movie, as Khan orders, "AFT TORPEDOES: FIRE!" you will notice Enterprise int he background is turning hard to starboard, changing her position.
That was absolutely amazing! I'm only 34 but ST II and III were my intro to trek at age 7. And my favorite trek media. Thanks for this!! And please keep em coming.. man that last shot of firing Spocks coffin down to genesis . The way you framed that shot. Goosebumps!!
From an old FASA gamer, thanks for breathing new life into a nostalgic classic .
Sorry to pull on your nostalgia but I was awed by FASA Trek as a kid. :)
Slight correction:
Planetary nebulas aren't a result of a Super-nova, rather the ejection of the outer shell of a main-sequence star that underwent a red giant phase. This means, no stellar remnant of the neuron star or black hole type and the mother star is still alive, that is fusing elements at this point.
Port = left.
Wait, there would still be a white dwarf remaining. Which would honestly be even more ideal for Genesis to orbit.
@@3Rayfire i'm sorry, i probably didn't express my thoughts concisely enough. I was referring to use of the term planetary nebula. It was mentioned in the video, that those are results of supernovae, while IRL they aren't. I didn't mean that they wouldn't have a nearby star for the planet to revolve around to.
You do make a good point though. IRL Tau Ceti is a star that is extremely similar to our own sun Sol. That would mean it's way too young to shedding it's outer layers. So it's another argument against the nebula being planetary.
Doing everything by yourself...that comment is what made me decide to subscribe to your channel...I don't do it often...only when I'm truly impressed with a channel do I subscribe....and I im truly impressed with what you do...and I love the "Id be Dead Inside" comment
I love watching your growth with this channel - you have some excellent talent..
Great video, good sir! One small point, however. At 9:19 you mention the torpedo Khan launched at the Enterprise as she was trying to make for the Nebula. That torpedo wasn't intended to hit the Enterprise; it was a warning shot. Recall the scene: Khan's second in command says that they will loose the Enterprise if they enter the Nebula. Khan replies "Explain it to them!" The torpedo is fired and it passes close by the Enterprise, a fact that Savic comments on. Kirk then assures her: "They just don't want us going in there." Khan wanted to engage the Enterprise on his own terms, out in clear space. That torpedo was effectively saying "HEY! Get back here and fight me!"
Bro,
You should start a series with these graphics.
I LOVE THIS!!!
Been watching since last year and loved it all.
Excellent! I would love to see you do a tactical breakdown of the "The Best Of Both Worlds, Part I" From the Borg Cube intercepting the Enterprise-D up to the point where the Enterprise-D flees the Paulson Nebula and the Borg seize the ship and capture Picard and then proceed to Earth. That would be so cool. Plus if you created those models I would so buy them. :D
Great breakdown. You make a really great point when you say that this over 40 year old movie's visual effects still look good. The fans are still taking about this battle... meanwhile all the pew pews of modern trek just looks foolish.
Great graphics, the best of any breakdown of my most favourite space battle.
It really comes through how much the writers and director wanted all of this to make sense tactically and visually. This movie has the best space battles for a good reason. They aren't even very long sequences, but there's so much packed into them, and it all just makes sense and plays out logically.
I think it was Meyers who said he toured a modern US submarine before directing this movie? This would explain the ambiance. Thanks so much for the superthanks!
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who wondered about the confusion between "a few shots, sir" and "a few short, sir."
In context, both make sense.
So... about the results of the Genesis detonation. I'm on Team "It Formed a Planet." I like the idea that one of the major components of the device is transporter technology -- breaking down matter to energy, but then filling it into a new pattern to convert it to organic matter.
The graphic sequence that Kirk and crew watch implies that it just sweeps the surface but I like the idea that what the device does is envelop the entire planet, doing things through the core to guarantee that you have a life-giving planet. Things like making sure it has an aligned magnetic field for example. If the "pattern maker" inside the device can "design" an entire planet, it does suddenly make sense how it can cause a planet to spring from nowhere. (Probably something the Marcus'es would have theorized but weren't intent on making part of their test detonation.)
Just to get all topical, maybe the device basically had machine learning embedded in it. Basically, Genesis was an AI-generated planet :D Making a sun is a bridge too far for me, in my mind there's just a star / protostar at the center of the Mutara.
I loved this sequence of videos. There were honestly some points where I got confused whether I was looking at frames from the movie or at the work you did! Brilliant job.
You should do the battle in ST6 between the Enterprise-A, The Excelsior, and General Chang's Bird of Prey.
Wanted to echo a bit of what others have said. First a tremendous job with your simulations and videos. They are first rate.
As to the Genesis planet - the novel isn't Canon (is anything anymore, lol) - but it essentially describes that the Genesis devise was still in proof of concept phase. Carol's proposal vid says that even in phase 3 it was still a prototype.
In TWoK and TSfS novels, David talks about how many things they'd programmed into the matrix that they'd deactivated for testing purposes. He speaks of lifeforms like flying dragons they'd put in, whimsical things, that had been deactivated to allow the matrix to form at a simpler proof level. He wondered how much of the main operational programming Khan- in messing with the machinery - activated back into the matrix. One of his ongoing thoughts is half expecting to see his dragons tho they were just an "easter egg" in the code.
David said that one reason why Genesis was unstable was that the AI - for lack of a better term - that directed matrix formation was forced into a full system terraform when it was only set up for a existing planet proof of concept test. That is - the AI was expecting to terraform an existing dead planet. But the groundwork had been laid in the code to create an entire star system, it just wasn't complete or turned on yet.
But it found itself inside a nebula without a planet or a star. So it interpreted its instructions the best it could and thus used the deactivated programming that still existed in the system to force the creation of a star and planet as if it were a full system terraform. A fully operational full power set of matrix code was used - but it only had a proof of concept test amount of power to work with. Genesis was underpowered for what it tried to do.
So the Genesis AI built what it was capable of - except the matrix was set up with the wrong set of initial conditions. It was expecting a dead but fully formed planet to work with but it had gas and dust without even a star. So the creation was incomplete. That's why the protomatter was unstable in the planet but the new Genesis star was stable. It took so much energy and computation power out of the matrix to form the star properly when it wasn't set up to do that yet, that the planet was incomplete and unstable. That was not what he was hoping for or expected. David said Genesis was a success beyond anyone's dreams considering what it had done with the material it had, bad initial conditions, no scientific control etc. And that's why it had to end. He understood the dangers of weaponizing the tech when it was properly set up when it did this with essentially a misfire. Which is why he led everyone to believe it was a failure.
Fantastic work! This remains my favorite movie of all time. You do it justice.
This is gonna be awesome!
I like that you added this epic battle had two, "yes, only two," starships. A lesson for today where no movie set in space can be "epic" without hundreds of CGI ships firing thousands of torpedoes to a point it's all meaningless. It's the same as how Kirk and Khan are never once in the same room at the same time in this movie. There was no need for Kirk and Khan to have a martial arts fist fight at the end, or break out conveniently placed swords, and then Kirk escapes seconds before Khan dies a horrible death. Indeed, Khan dies believing the Enterprise won't escape and never sees it warp away at the last second. That could never be allowed in a movie today; Khan would have to see Kirk escape and scream "KIIIIIIIRRRRRRRK!" or similar schlock.
A great breakdown and I also love you highlighting the message of the film in the year. I am much the same way for the passing of Spock it is a tear jerker for me too probably more in my adult life than as a kid because hardly a day goes by in which I'm not watching not only something Star Trek but having read the extended universe along with Nimoy's books, and to see Spock go through the trials of his life it really hits home even though he tried to be Vulcan his reaction much like the Galileo Seven ending was a human response in the end.
Our shields are dropping. Well raise them! I can’t! Kirk orders, “Fire!” I love the dialogue too. Learn why things work on a starship. Now you know where the concept of Remote Desktop for computers or Sidecar came from
God, Jefferies did an awesome job with the OG enterprise and what an amazing update they made it with the Conny refit. I grew up on TNG, but I always gushed over the Refit whenever the movies where on TV.
Good two part videos. By the way we did see Reliant fire a torpedo as they were chasing the Enterprise into the Mutara Nebula. Joachim said, "If they go in there we'll loose them." Khan says, "Explain it to them." Joachim gives the order to fire and the Reliant does fire the torpedo but it barely misses them.
Planetary Nebula - Galileo Seven. Pulsar, and conditions that render the Enterprise unable to easily detect the course and location of the Galileo.
This is great! I often re-create this battle in Starfleet Command Orion Pirates. It's a tough battle given the damage the Enterprise was inflicted.
Love your videos thank you so much for making them
It is interesting that the sound of the phasers is different, if you look up the trailer for Star Trek 2 they sound a lot more like searing lightning bolts than the pew pew noise that they ended up using in the final cut of the movie.
In the trailer and the extended cut shown on ABC the phasers use the sound of the blaster sfx from Star Wars.
An additional possibility for detecting the approach of the USS Reliant by the USS Enterprise could be some sort of atmospheric ducting of the Reliant's active sensor transmissions. It is very common for certain frequencies of RF energy (particularly shortwave) to bounce of ionized gasses, or perhaps even be scattered off the nebula itself. In this case, since the Enterprise is running with the Reliant in pursuit, the reliant would be actively and passively scanning for any sign of Kirk and the crew while the Eterprise would be only passively scanning. Meaning she would not be broadcasting her location to Reliant. Even if operating silent (say under EMCON) the passive sensor receivers on Enterprise would be able to detect the increase in the signal intensity of Reliant's sensors as she approached. With sensitive enough receivers and an super discrete filter to eliminate enough noise you could get a measurable increase in signal intensity indicating a closing plot, which would only tell you that Reliant is getting closer; it would not give accurate direction to the source without line of sight due to the irregularity of the scattered signals. This is probably the most likely solution, I would think.
Well done! An underrated channel to say the least.
My sister took me to see this on July 4th, 1982. I called her this year in July to remind her that we saw this movie 42 years ago and asked if she felt old now.
12:17 Minor detail to note here, in the actual movie itself, the phaser shot doesn't just hit close to the Reliant's bridge, it flat out scrapes the bridge module itself and rips out a good chunk of the airlock section just behind it.
I think this is the best video that you’ve ever done. Also, the ending was amazing with what you said.
You made a great point. It was Captain Spock who made all the right calls and saved his ship. Even the big Kirk prefix command moment, Spock already had it planned out.
A captain is only as good as his staff officers.
Also this is one of many reasons why kirk goes hell for leather to try reviving his friend.
"Sporadic energy readings, portside aft. Could be an Impulse Power turn." - Spock.
They were definitely following anomalous sensor readings to find the Reliant. amusingly, Khan's people just stared at the viewscreens. Also, Khan created that lightshow: watch the scene again and you'll see it specifically originates from the Impulse Engines.
Thanks for the excellent coverage and the quality of the production. Definitely accurate to what Star Trek II depicted.
I thought you missed that Z-Axis maneuver, that was the game changer for the enterprise, well done sir.
A brilliant review of STTWOK. Unlike all the other films, director Nicholas Meyer really brought a sense of naval warfare and drama that helps make this one of the best (if not the best) in the series.
FWIW, years ago I read the official novelization to Star Trek III. In that they specifically stated that the Genesis device transformed the gaseous matter of the nebula to create both the Genesis planet and the star it revolved around. It never explained why (maybe there's an "add star" option menu on the device 😅). I believe that in the novel both the planet and its sun were unstable and ended up blowing up.
The non-canon novelisation of TSFS goes into detail on how the Genesis Planet was formed.
It was created out of the Mutara Nebula along with the star.
It also has an extensive "prologue":
The Enterprise returns to Regula 1 to meet with the Grissom, pick up the corpses from Space Lab and retrieve the Genesis data storage from the cave. This is where the problems with Genesis first become apparent with intoxicating vines overgrowing the cave and Saavik and David acting strange because of these.
I found your channel today and I'm really impressed with your work. Congratulations.
The way this video was made, had me feeling like this was an actual naval battle that took place in the cosmos. 🖖
Think the analysis on a stellar nursery is correct, however when the Genesis device detonates I believe it speeds up the formation of the stellar material. It likely does destroy Regula 1, and the moon it has, due to the subspace shock wave that it emitted. The Enterprise even at wrap barely gets clear of the shock wave as you can see the rings of the shock wave that are still forming ahead of the Enterprise through subspace. A subspace blast is also shown or talked about in two different movies besides Star Trek 2. Those movies are Star Trek 6, The Undiscovered Country, and JJ's Star Trek with the destruction of Romulus.
The Wrath of Khan novelization explicitly states that the Enterprise was making use of the Regula I space station to relay telemetry to Enterprise on the planetoid's far side.
I'm delighted anytime to see the Enterprise refit, just a gorgeous ship
like to mention, great vids, but one a few key details left out by not going off of official documents, is the fact that reliant's phasers were hooked directly into the warp core's main power, which is why they were unable to fire after the first attack during the interception. This detail also explains why the damage shown on the display when spock was describing the damage after the first hit during the interception attack showed damage on both sides of the engineering hull, Reliant's phasers were powerful enough due to drawing directly from the warp core that it literally would be able to tear STRAIGHT THROUGH the hull of an unshielded vessel from one side to the other! Just putting some notes out there, great videos tho!
Incredible effect - how did you make the NGC 1976 Orion nebula 3D? I also disagree that the nebula is a stellar nursery. The density and shield-disabling effects of the nebula I think are consistent with a pulsar wind nebula. Such nebulae are denser, which may cause the drag shown to deccelerate Enterprise (although this is still too pronounced) and would contain concerning amounts of radiation (due to the pulsar) that could theoretically interfere with starship shields.
We do see a pulsar-like effect in the film. There is a pulsating light that is eclipsed by Reliant, obscuring its visibility from the audience until it emergences and strikes Enterprise's port torpedo bay. (You reference this yourself as a "light show".)
What you are describing by what you think Spock means when he says they are entering the nebula, is potentially either of a bok globule, or cometary knot.
We can reason that this nebula is a few light years from the star Alpha Ceti (Ceti Alpha?), interestingly close to Omicron Ceti (featured in TOS: This Side of Paradise and TNG: Conspiracy). It is doubtful that Enterprise could have arrived here, departing from Earth in days, but ignoring the speed discrepancies, the nearest pulsar would still be hundreds of light years distant (potentially PSR J0108+1431).
There is a useful catalogue of pulsar wind nebulae: www.physics.mcgill.ca/~pulsar/pwncat.html
And it can be used in conjunction with the ATNF pulsar catalogue for more detailed information: www.atnf.csiro.au/research/pulsar/psrcat/
From what I recall, there was no likely candidate, but I was not expecting much.
Enjoyed your analysis my friend of this classic battle one of my favorites. Well done
He made a slight mistake there as it wasn't the Reliant's starboard nacelle that was sheered off by the Enterprise's torpedo strike it was the port nacelle.
Depends on whether your are looking from the front or back.
A thought. I have, on an occasion or two, had Yellow Alert explained to me as a time when energy was shunted into the ship's defensive systems. This would also include cycling phaser capacitors and inducers, located near the turrets. So there's a possibility that Scotty's comments about having "a few shots" came from Kirk's yellow alert order, which would have primed the ship's phasers for their first shots if they wound up in a dogfight. I'm not sure if battery power alone would have been enough. I do agree in either case that the Enterprise was barely manuverable enough and didn't have enough offensive armament left to do more damage in the counterattack.
Great job on the show.
Really enjoyed the short about how you make the videos.
Thanks
The missed torpedo was from range, but wasn't a wild shot. It was either meant to be a warning, or meant to hit Port nacelle pylon or the "neck", its plainly visible.
Keep in mind even without main power, 1701 refit phasers are still a match for reliant which still has main power. WOK was the first time we see the hero ship badly beaten and in a subsequent movie, destroyed. The fallen hero.