You have to understand that Eric saw how Mark St. John was treated when he got sick and they brought in Bruce.Even after Mark got better Gene and Paul had already decided they liked working with Bruce better and let Mark so when Eric got sick and they brought in Singer naturally Eric felt like he was getting the Mark St. John treatment and he was probably right..
I’m 54 which makes me a kid in the 1970’s. KISS Destroyer introduced me to KISS and I quickly got every album. I was always a Ace Frehley fan. Easily my fav band member. I remember how Eric Carr absolutely made his presence known. Such a powerful drummer. He brought the thunder!!! My favorite drummer from any band. RIP Eric Carr!
Peter Criss made a lot of disturbing comments about Mark but I find them hard to believe.More would have come out about what Peter said and it hasn’t. Peter was just pissed at Mark cause there Demo for The Keep Failed.Mark and Peter were both on heavy Drugs as well so I think the drugs played a role in Peter’s Comments. R.I.P Mark and thanks for Mark St John project it was a great EP.
Lonely is the Hunter is my favorite Kiss song ever. I just love it, always have. Just found out recently Kulick played on it and not Mark. Great song, glad you mentioned it.
Bruce Kulick = best fit for KISS Ace = most loved and influential. Vinnie and Mark = great guitarists not very good fit. Tommy= just doing what he is told...dont hate him
@@whataboutrob442 well I mena let's be honest. Ace is sloppy and always has been. WORSE now. That's why Kulick will always be #1 in my book. I just recognize that Ace got a lot of people interested in Guitar ..I'm one of them. But he's not even in the top 25 of guitarists in my opinion. Influential yes...great...No
Athelstan BastardKing it was during the animalized sessions Bruce was told by Gene and Paul “don’t cut your hair.” I don’t think they had quite settled on keeping Mark St John and wanted to have a second option, and it just happened Mark’s health condition pushed things forward the way they did. Personally, I think Bruce Kulick is the best guitarist KISS ever had (and Ace Frehley is the reason I picked up the guitar). Bruce had the perfect amount of ability and taste to play to songs, even when Gene and Paul we’re pushing him to play in styles “of the time” in the 80s. Solid player.
@@american_warrior724 your comment was overkill. I already explained Bruce Kulick played on a few tracks. It's not anyone's fault if they assume Mark played on the whole album, because Gene and Paul made a big stink about introducing him as their new guitarist as Animalized was released. Who knows how Mark would have evolved had he stayed healthy and continued playing with the group. He was no slouch, and certainly didn't suck. He was just not the right fit.
I seen the Animaize tour in KCMO. Was expecting Mark on stage. The band comes out and that's not Mark? Then later find out it's Bruce, Bob's brother. All us fans know the beginning of that story! One of my absolute favorite albums was Carnival of Souls. Loved Bruce's playing on that. The whole album was different. Definitely a departure from the KISS norm. As far as Eric Carr. He was great! Great drummer. Kinda shy but, a heart of gold. He actually called Peter and asked if he minded if he sang Beth. Come on! If that's not showing respect I don't know what is. And Ace? We all know Ace. Spaceman fits him perfect. Still love him and his music but Ace is Ace. Love him or leave him! Tommy. I just like the guy. Seems like a good dude. Get's up there and plays Ace's solos and a bit of himself without going over board and puts on a good show. Eric Singer. Excellent drummer! Better than Peter (Sorry Peter you'll alway be Catman!) not as good as Carr! But a cool guy non the less! That's my take. Paul and Gene?.............
Diamond D - theres not even any live material with MSJ n Kiss. How could u ever say that? He only played on 8 songs. or 7? He never even played on 2 songs on that pos album, Animalize. He sucked
I generally think that all Kiss guitarists have been pretty crappy , they all have their moments like No no no , rocket ride etc but then you have torpedo girl Read my body etc which wld embarrass cc deville. Ace? Well they had others play his guitar parts just shows how bad he is .
@@diamondd2778 There's only 3 or 4 songs that Ace was replaced on- and its NOT bc he couldnt play- its bc Ace didnt want to, for whatever reasons. Ace may not be a great guitarist as far as skills go, but he most definitely knew how to solo with melody, groove, n catchiness, and this is a GREAT skill that 90% of guitarists dont possess...and this makes him BETTER than Vinnie, Mark, and Bruce. In Freudian fashion, I totally forgot about Tommy lmao.. Tommy cant solo either
3:29 I do t think shredding was Vinnie’s problem onstage. From what I’ve read and heard from all members not just Gene and Paul, Vinnie had a habit of going on way too long. A single song unless it’s his solo portion of the concert doesn’t need to be 10-15 minutes long. And then like he said they’d fight onstage when they cut him short so they can finish the song and proceed with the show.
@@american_warrior724 exactly but if ace would've put music before all of the drugs and bullshit I bet he would've been the best shredder (if he wanted that) because imo he was the best at what he did and what he did has always been my favorite guitar playing ever by miles
Right on,Guys like Vinny and Mark NEVER fit stylistically in playing older Kiss material that superfast playing lacks melody and harmony,which are vital in making catchy songs IMO,too much speed is disonant IMO.Bruce and Tommy are more capable paying homage to older Kiss material and also deserve major kudos to deal w/ the egos involved,really nice guys who don't pose a threat and were more than happy making good bank,any threat perceived by Paul or Gene and you go bye-bye.
The secret of being an effective lead guitarist who can shred in a band that's not known for shred guitarists is to understand how to fit the shredding into the songs by showing restraint in how you do it.
I loved his playing and tone on Animalize. LOVED it. But Mark had no presence or character in the band. He was a dullard in interviews. Maybe that could have changed over time, but it’s said he was difficult to work with. Sounds kinda like VV….
Mark St. John use to live in an apartment on the corner of Lincoln Ave. and East St. in Anaheim Calif. I live about 1/2 mile from where he use to live.
I think of Ace and Peter were smart they would have played into the reunion for the end of the road tour. It would have gotten the fans so worked up about it that Gene and Paul would have had no choice but to stump up a heap of cash.
I saw Vinnie live by the way Eddie I heard the ace interview great yes the 70s kiss is different then 80s like any one else the new kiss have the two fans in the band they hired two kids army guys tommy and the other dood are younger then baby-boom age like the original band
Whenever I think of kiss post ace and Peter I always think a few things firstly the three main things one being the none make up showing two the guitar players like Mark and Bruce and vinnie and also the lick it up was it a coincidence that all this happend?
Paul originally told the press Mark had a "Rare Disease". He was fear mongering from the start. Paul knew he wouldn't let him stay anyways. His narration made Mark seem like a leper that was hopeless.
Mark and Vinnie were both great players.... they just wasn't the right style for Kiss. Ace Frehley and Bruce kulick were perfect for Kiss!! If I'm being totally honest with myself?... I would have to admit that Tommy Thayer is also the perfect style for Kiss. Some of the fans strictly have beef with his makeup. I think people would have loved Tommy Thayer if he had his own character
just cant play the same thing twice love when people who never strummed get enthusiastic about whos the best ....Ace is the best !!!vinnie #2 bruce#3 and creatures destroyer Revenge best records period!!!!
Like Vinnie, it doesn’t matter what kind of musician you are if you can’t work with people. Also, fast playing doesn’t mean squat. There are a thousand guys you’ve never heard of that are as good, or better, than Mark. Had he shown some humility and the ability to take direction without being an asshat, he would likely have had a longer career with Kiss.
I was at the half show. It was not a half show, it was like 3 maybe four songs, at least that's what remember.. He did one solo and it was shockingly bad. Then some other dude pops on stage. Mark, unfortunately, sucked.
Sorry each to his own but it still rubs me the wrong way to see Eric singer and Tommy Thayer in the original make-up me seen Tommy Thayer doing shock me I did not like that one bit if they would have changed the makeup in the first place I probably would still be going to kiss shows each to his own if people like it go see it if not don't
Thats what I have always said. I will take a distorted, nasty blues lick over that 'no feel' flurry of notes puking out of a guitar at 6,543 notes a second. Ace's signature licks are some of the best that I have ever heard by anyone.
Mark St. John was a poor man's Vinnie Vincent. Kiss wanted another shredder cause it was 1984, and they still wanted to be relavent. I do not know why Kiss didn't just go with Bruce Kulick instead of Mark St.John. Bruce played on a couple of tracks on Animalize, and he was a better guitarist.
So your really believe that mark St. John or anybody for that matter would get an audition for Kiss much less be hired if he couldn't play the same solo twice? Really? I think it is Stanley talking BS about another former member of Kiss
His solos in "I've Had Enough (Into The Fire)," "Under The Gun," "Thrills In The Night," "While The City Sleeps," "Get All You Can Take" & " Burn Bitch Burn 🔥" ...
Paul’s vocals were off the chart during the 80’s. And the Crazy Nights lineup was the most musically accomplished version of the band they had in my humble opinion.
Roger - I will agree that after Creatures, Paul became increasingly annoying af (too feminine). But I gotta say that Creatures, Lick it Up, and Asylum are all good, solid albums. I would agree that AFTER ASYLUM (85), 80s KISS was lame af
I'd say "Read My Body" is. A re-write of Def Leppard's "Pour Some Sugar On Me ," bragging about himself! Never should've been on *Hot In The Shade* (smh)...
You have to understand that Eric saw how Mark St. John was treated when he got sick and they brought in Bruce.Even after Mark got better Gene and Paul had already decided they liked working with Bruce better and let Mark so when Eric got sick and they brought in Singer naturally Eric felt like he was getting the Mark St. John treatment and he was probably right..
Good point.
Mark was my teacher for many years. None of you have no idea. I agree he was way overqualified for Kiss.
He called me from Madison Square Garden 15 minutes before he performed
He had tiny hands that could stretch 7 frets
His best friends were Alan holdsworth and Grover
I’m 54 which makes me a kid in the 1970’s. KISS Destroyer introduced me to KISS and I quickly got every album. I was always a Ace Frehley fan. Easily my fav band member. I remember how Eric Carr absolutely made his presence known. Such a powerful drummer. He brought the thunder!!! My favorite drummer from any band. RIP Eric Carr!
Eric Carr was absolutely amazing. When I saw Kiss live in 1988, his playing blew me away.
Ace Frehley hated wearing the makeup. He stated that on Howard Stern. Mark St John was never a KISS fan to begin with. He just took the job.
Peter Criss made a lot of disturbing comments about Mark but I find them hard to believe.More would have come out about what Peter said and it hasn’t. Peter was just pissed at Mark cause there Demo for The Keep Failed.Mark and Peter were both on heavy Drugs as well so I think the drugs played a role in Peter’s Comments. R.I.P Mark and thanks for Mark St John project it was a great EP.
Funny, Kulick played on two tracks on Animalize. Murder in high heals and lonely is the hunter
Lonely is the Hunter is my favorite Kiss song ever. I just love it, always have. Just found out recently Kulick played on it and not Mark. Great song, glad you mentioned it.
Bruce Kulick = best fit for KISS Ace = most loved and influential. Vinnie and Mark = great guitarists not very good fit. Tommy= just doing what he is told...dont hate him
I totally agree on the Tommy comment. I have no idea on his style... because he's told what to play.
Vinnie was a great fit.... Creatures and lick it up are still my two fave albums along with revenge.
But vinnie was (is) nuts... Such a shame.
Tommy is still much better than Ace. Just listen to his showcase solo. Way ahead of Ace.
@@whataboutrob442 well I mena let's be honest. Ace is sloppy and always has been. WORSE now. That's why Kulick will always be #1 in my book. I just recognize that Ace got a lot of people interested in Guitar ..I'm one of them. But he's not even in the top 25 of guitarists in my opinion. Influential yes...great...No
@Stephen Joens opinions are ok to have so have yours. I have mine. Yours means squat to me.
Without animalize kiss is done that's how important that record was
@Vincent Junio
Yes. Vinnie was gone--and Ace wasn't coming back to KISS, at that point, either.
*Lick It Up* went Gold, at the time. It didn't go Platinum until years after *Animalize* had.
I love Creatures thru Animalize. Mark St John was great. Lonely is the Hunter is a killer song.
Actually, that was Bruce Kulick who played the solo on that particular song (and Murder in Heels), not Mark.
@@thomascunningham1619 No shit? I didn't know that. Regardless, I love that song. I think the lean years for Kiss produced good material, honestly.
Athelstan BastardKing it was during the animalized sessions Bruce was told by Gene and Paul “don’t cut your hair.” I don’t think they had quite settled on keeping Mark St John and wanted to have a second option, and it just happened Mark’s health condition pushed things forward the way they did. Personally, I think Bruce Kulick is the best guitarist KISS ever had (and Ace Frehley is the reason I picked up the guitar). Bruce had the perfect amount of ability and taste to play to songs, even when Gene and Paul we’re pushing him to play in styles “of the time” in the 80s. Solid player.
lmfao, Mark didnt play on Lonely is the Hunter lol Mark sucked
@@american_warrior724 your comment was overkill. I already explained Bruce Kulick played on a few tracks. It's not anyone's fault if they assume Mark played on the whole album, because Gene and Paul made a big stink about introducing him as their new guitarist as Animalized was released. Who knows how Mark would have evolved had he stayed healthy and continued playing with the group. He was no slouch, and certainly didn't suck. He was just not the right fit.
They(KISS)knew what they were getting when they hired him and he was perfect for that time frame of 80’s shredders ala Van Halen,Lee,Lynch……
Long live the fox!!!!!!
Lots of bands would have been happy to have a KISS eighties career!
From what I've read; Mark St. John only did two partial shows and one full show with KISS.
Truth
Bruce can shred
I seen the Animaize tour in KCMO. Was expecting Mark on stage. The band comes out and that's not Mark? Then later find out it's Bruce, Bob's brother. All us fans know the beginning of that story! One of my absolute favorite albums was Carnival of Souls. Loved Bruce's playing on that. The whole album was different. Definitely a departure from the KISS norm. As far as Eric Carr. He was great! Great drummer. Kinda shy but, a heart of gold. He actually called Peter and asked if he minded if he sang Beth. Come on! If that's not showing respect I don't know what is. And Ace? We all know Ace. Spaceman fits him perfect. Still love him and his music but Ace is Ace. Love him or leave him! Tommy. I just like the guy. Seems like a good dude. Get's up there and plays Ace's solos and a bit of himself without going over board and puts on a good show. Eric Singer. Excellent drummer! Better than Peter (Sorry Peter you'll alway be Catman!) not as good as Carr! But a cool guy non the less! That's my take. Paul and Gene?.............
Carnival kicked ass.
If Eric Carr had lived, he wouldve teamed up with Bruce and worked on their own project like the Rockheads.
Mark st john was kiss best guitarist in my books. Animalize is a great album
No no no, Bruce Kulick was So perfect for KISS in the 80s it's not even funny
Diamond D - theres not even any live material with MSJ n Kiss. How could u ever say that? He only played on 8 songs. or 7? He never even played on 2 songs on that pos album, Animalize. He sucked
E VH yesss🔥🔥
I generally think that all Kiss guitarists have been pretty crappy , they all have their moments like No no no , rocket ride etc but then you have torpedo girl Read my body etc which wld embarrass cc deville. Ace? Well they had others play his guitar parts just shows how bad he is .
@@diamondd2778 There's only 3 or 4 songs that Ace was replaced on- and its NOT bc he couldnt play- its bc Ace didnt want to, for whatever reasons. Ace may not be a great guitarist as far as skills go, but he most definitely knew how to solo with melody, groove, n catchiness, and this is a GREAT skill that 90% of guitarists dont possess...and this makes him BETTER than Vinnie, Mark, and Bruce.
In Freudian fashion, I totally forgot about Tommy lmao.. Tommy cant solo either
# 2 is Bruce Kulick - IMO
R.i.p. Mark. However Bruce Kulick was So perfect for KISS in the 80s it's not even funny
Kiss never got any recognition for the pure talent in that band in the 80s.
3:29 I do t think shredding was Vinnie’s problem onstage. From what I’ve read and heard from all members not just Gene and Paul, Vinnie had a habit of going on way too long. A single song unless it’s his solo portion of the concert doesn’t need to be 10-15 minutes long. And then like he said they’d fight onstage when they cut him short so they can finish the song and proceed with the show.
It's always a pain in the ass picking up where someone else left off.
Shredding was a good fit for animalize. I am an Ace freak but I can't see animalize with Aces style.
I agree, but if Ace had still been in the band, there would be no Animalize album.
@@american_warrior724 true.
@@american_warrior724 exactly but if ace would've put music before all of the drugs and bullshit I bet he would've been the best shredder (if he wanted that) because imo he was the best at what he did and what he did has always been my favorite guitar playing ever by miles
Mark St John had a big hand in Kiss
😂😂😂
He did and f that bitch Blaze Connolly.
Mark could smoke anyone on guitar.
Right on,Guys like Vinny and Mark NEVER fit stylistically in playing older Kiss material that superfast playing lacks melody and harmony,which are vital in making catchy songs IMO,too much speed is disonant IMO.Bruce and Tommy are more capable paying homage to older Kiss material and also deserve major kudos to deal w/ the egos involved,really nice guys who don't pose a threat and were more than happy making good bank,any threat perceived by Paul or Gene and you go bye-bye.
The secret of being an effective lead guitarist who can shred in a band that's not known for shred guitarists is to understand how to fit the shredding into the songs by showing restraint in how you do it.
He was a very unique individual. Thus fit perfectly into the KISS scheme.
“Animalize” is right up there with “Creatures”.
I loved his playing and tone on Animalize. LOVED it.
But Mark had no presence or character in the band. He was a dullard in interviews. Maybe that could have changed over time, but it’s said he was difficult to work with. Sounds kinda like VV….
loved Eric Carr frienda with Loretta
Mark St. John use to live in an apartment on the corner of Lincoln Ave. and East St. in Anaheim Calif. I live about 1/2 mile from where he use to live.
I think of Ace and Peter were smart they would have played into the reunion for the end of the road tour. It would have gotten the fans so worked up about it that Gene and Paul would have had no choice but to stump up a heap of cash.
I saw Vinnie live by the way Eddie I heard the ace interview great yes the 70s kiss is different then 80s like any one else the new kiss have the two fans in the band they hired two kids army guys tommy and the other dood are younger then baby-boom age like the original band
So sad that he was a addict
Whenever I think of kiss post ace and Peter I always think a few things firstly the three main things one being the none make up showing two the guitar players like Mark and Bruce and vinnie and also the lick it up was it a coincidence that all this happend?
What the hell are you saying?
@@IAAP. what people have been saying for years my G
Paul originally told the press Mark had a "Rare Disease". He was fear mongering from the start. Paul knew he wouldn't let him stay anyways. His narration made Mark seem like a leper that was hopeless.
Mark and Vinnie never jelled with KISS. Even if he would have stayed healthy I dont think he would have lasted with the band.
Paul & Gene were too controlling at that point for either of them.
Serena went in! 😤
Best post Ace era kiss guitarwork/sound is on Anamalize_ Bruce Kulick is a dick for his embellishment on the facts about him replacing Mark St. John
Mark and Vinnie were both great players.... they just wasn't the right style for Kiss. Ace Frehley and Bruce kulick were perfect for Kiss!! If I'm being totally honest with myself?... I would have to admit that Tommy Thayer is also the perfect style for Kiss. Some of the fans strictly have beef with his makeup. I think people would have loved Tommy Thayer if he had his own character
I’m sorry, but Vinnie was shit. Horrible non musical player. Sure he could shred scales, but his solos sucked
Vinnie & Mark wanted more freedom & control over their own music & stage presences than Gene & Paul were willing to give them.
Are anyone else's ears bleeding after listening to this meth'ed out caller?
Isn’t Haylen. Not hailen ??
Van Halen
NO GREAKING WAY HE WAZZ OK BUTT FAR DROM THE BEST ACE FREHLEY BY FAR THE BEST
Isn’t it qulik. Not koolick.
Kulick
@@MrKISSFAN101
That is true . that is how bruce last name is spelled
just cant play the same thing twice love when people who never strummed get enthusiastic about whos the best ....Ace is the best !!!vinnie #2 bruce#3 and creatures destroyer Revenge best records period!!!!
Mark could & did play the same thing twice. There are *Animalize* demos that prove this, contrary to what Paul Stanley has said since.
Eddie talk so much shit, Kiss can fill an arena without Ace and peter....
Not for nothing mark St. John was too good for kiss he was a far better musician than anyone in kiss and he was light years ahead of ace.
Like Vinnie, it doesn’t matter what kind of musician you are if you can’t work with people.
Also, fast playing doesn’t mean squat. There are a thousand guys you’ve never heard of that are as good, or better, than Mark.
Had he shown some humility and the ability to take direction without being an asshat, he would likely have had a longer career with Kiss.
I was at the half show. It was not a half show, it was like 3 maybe four songs, at least that's what remember.. He did one solo and it was shockingly bad. Then some other dude pops on stage. Mark, unfortunately, sucked.
Sorry each to his own but it still rubs me the wrong way to see Eric singer and Tommy Thayer in the original make-up me seen Tommy Thayer doing shock me I did not like that one bit if they would have changed the makeup in the first place I probably would still be going to kiss shows each to his own if people like it go see it if not don't
I’m not a fan of “shredding” at all. It’s just annoying. Ace’s style is much better.
Thats what I have always said. I will take a distorted, nasty blues lick over that 'no feel' flurry of notes puking out of a guitar at 6,543 notes a second. Ace's signature licks are some of the best that I have ever heard by anyone.
Mark St. John was a poor man's Vinnie Vincent. Kiss wanted another shredder cause it was 1984, and they still wanted to be relavent. I do not know why Kiss didn't just go with Bruce Kulick instead of Mark St.John. Bruce played on a couple of tracks on Animalize, and he was a better guitarist.
Mark St. John was a guitar teacher.
His style--especially in White Tiger & afterwards--was more like Jake E. Lee's than Vinnie Vincent's.
They thought Bruce was a robot with zero stage presence, so they picked Mark, who wasn't super physical either
Oh god I had to skip to Eddie cause that woman has one of the most annoying voices I’ve ever heard! Seriously, my ears were actually hurting.
Kiss had a terrible time with St John in the studio, because he could not play the same solo more than once. He never played a Kiss concert.
Not true on both counts. That first one is Paul's later revisionism. The *Animalize* demos from that time contradict what he's said since.
@@nathanlansford1882 What? So you know more about the making of Animalize than Paul Stanley and St. John went on tour with KISS?🙄🙄
I've heard the demos that have been released & he did manage to play in three particular gigs on that tour. Bruce Kulick was also there.
Mark played half a show in Baltimore & then two shows in Poughkeepsie & Binghamton.
So your really believe that mark St. John or anybody for that matter would get an audition for Kiss much less be hired if he couldn't play the same solo twice? Really? I think it is Stanley talking BS about another former member of Kiss
I cant stand MStJohns playing on Animalize. It's horrible . That album sucks, too
Blame Paul Stanley for that.
Mark actually sounded better on some of the demos.
@@nathanlansford1882
Why blame Paul?
Gene was absent (in Hollywood) and left Paul alone.
Why not blame Paul? Gene or no Gene, Paul was the one who'd screwed up the sound of that album.
@@nathanlansford1882
First you wrote, Mark was horrible. But Paul had no better guitarrist than him.
I didn't say Mark was horrible. The person who started this comment thread was the one who'd said that. I disagreed.
Kiss are nothing but a bunch of clowns
I disagree strongly with the caller. I cant stand MStJ. Name one solo thats memorable. I'll wait. Animalize sucks, and so did Mark in Kiss
RIP
His solos in "I've Had Enough (Into The Fire)," "Under The Gun," "Thrills In The Night," "While The City Sleeps," "Get All You Can Take" & " Burn Bitch Burn 🔥" ...
The solos in I've Had Enough and Under the Gun are highly memorable.
80'S KISS WAS LAME
Paul’s vocals were off the chart during the 80’s. And the Crazy Nights lineup was the most musically accomplished version of the band they had in my humble opinion.
Philip Holmes think I had it on VHS, they did sound great 👍🏻
@Philip Holmes That concert is UA-cam. Excellent stuff
Crappy albums bar animalize
Roger - I will agree that after Creatures, Paul became increasingly annoying af (too feminine). But I gotta say that Creatures, Lick it Up, and Asylum are all good, solid albums. I would agree that AFTER ASYLUM (85), 80s KISS was lame af
Thrills In The Night from Animalize is the worst song Paul Stanley wrote.
No
I remember Let's Put the X in Sex... Pretty rotten...
@@barndude5562 Yes
Co-wrote you mean
I'd say "Read My Body" is.
A re-write of Def Leppard's "Pour Some Sugar On Me ," bragging about himself!
Never should've been on *Hot In The Shade* (smh)...