I agree with this. There are a lot of licks and phrases I love from Brecker but not the entire solo. I like to take the parts I like, understand the rhythm and chord patterns, and then think about what kinds of songs I can use them in, and also what can I add to put my own flavor into the phrase
Thats what i needed..always going so much time for one solo and never used all stuff in my playing..never thought about that from this angle..Thanks again Dave🤙🏼
I recently wrote an English essay on this topic where the prompt was "Write an essay on a topic with conflicting viewpoints." I took a very similar stance, where I find it easier and a more versatile approach to learn smaller parts of the solo and take it through the keys. I find myself fully absorbing and understanding the piece of language better as you really learn the ins and outs of the phrase. However, there are many things to learn from transcribing entire solos, namely learning prolonged phrasing and how to build a solo, use repetition, learn the harmony of a full tune, etc. I believe that both are very useful, but the first way is more efficient. Additionally, many people attempt to emulate someone's sound to the closest of their ability, emulating exact use of air, mistakes, meticulous timing, etc. However, while this contributes to a more accurate intimation of the artist, I find myself believing that focusing in the large concepts the soloist brings within a solo are more important to focus on than the meticulous nitty gritty elements. But I definitely see the value in it, as you want to think like the artist you are learning from as much as possible.
This reminds me of what hal garper said about practicing. He said that we should pick licks or lines from someone that relates to us. Well there's nothing wrong on transcribing a the whole solo. If the player wants it then why not?haha but it is more better on doing it on small bits. It saves a lot of time and we can focus on what matters other than spending an entite hour transcribing a damn solo😆. We should practice things that we like haha.
I've kind of been trying this a little bit since this video came out. I respect it, but I'm realizing that to my preferences, I think full solos, or at least moderately sized chunks of solos are better. The reason I think this is that I think it's fun to be able to play along to solos, or if one of your buddies is playing a recording that you've transcribed a solo on, it's a badass move (or asshole move, take your pick) to be able to vocally bust out the solo along with the track. I also find myself bouncing around a lot between ideas/solos/recordings/techniques. So forcing myself to slow down and really internalize one player's sound at a time seems more satisfying. I find that the ideas I remember the best are the ones I've spent the most time with and really digging into a single solo helps with that. Also on the topic of just transcribing the bits you like, I honestly feel that I like stuff on the first listen VERY rarely. If I sit down and really figure out the context, I tend to enjoy stuff a lot more. I don't think any of this is necessarily counter to what Dave is saying, but I feel like I'm realizing that it's good to take what works for other people and try it for a bit. If you like it, great! But also, be open to the idea that that way of practicing may be less beneficial or satisfying for you. And that doesn't mean that either their way or your way of practicing is "wrong". Even if the person who shared the practice tip is a great player (like Dave in this instance) I feel that the key is reflection on your own playing and practicing and constantly making little tweaks to keep a good balance of what you like and what makes the music stick in your ears long term.
Thank you for this great words of wisdom. I agree 100% Dave. I discovered this fact by accident and it has freed me from the frustrations of learning full solos and made my playing more dynamic.
I fall into the category of transcribing full solos - just sort of fell into this more than having a logical reason. It has some benefits for me - it takes me a while, so I "live" with the music longer, and record pretty constantly to try and mimic as closely as possible the inflections played. It is also kind of emotional satisfying to memorize something that long. That said, it takes an incredible amount of time, and it often gets in the way of really understanding the harmonic/rhythm detail of the parts of the music that really entranced me in the first place. I'm way too lame at really understanding and internalizing key pieces of the solo - like you describe at about 5 minutes. This is where I should focus next. Always nice to hear your viewpoints!
One thing I've been doing since the end of this spring semester has been to listen to a whole album (namely Red Garland's Piano) all the way through while sitting at the piano. I heard somebody say at a jazz fest I went to this spring that for every hour practicing, you should spend two hours listening. I'd heard songs from this album before, but I'd never listened to the whole thing. I love Red Garland's sound, so I'm planning to continue listening to it over the summer to let the sound of each member of the trio to really soak in. I'm picking up bits and pieces of the vocab, but I'm really using it as more of an ear training/listening exercise.
Paul Desmond on "My Romance", Miles Davis on "So What". Two choruses of Jesse Davis on "Gingerbread Boy" recently. Will have to leave out the double time parts and continue on selective parts.
Great video and great thoughts. I totally agree with you. I’m also in the 5 or less full solo category. Ive transcribed many lines or snippets of solos for exactly your reasons but mostly because I loved the sound of that particular line and wanted to figure it out. I think something that is missed though in the “mandatory transcription assignment in higher ed conversation” is the skill of deep listening. Listening deeply(many, many listenings) to a recording of a particular player will absolutely change your playing…maybe even more than transcribing. Feel, tone, rhythm, vibrato, air…all will be affected through deep listening. I think with apps now to help in the transcription process there may not be as much time spent listening in real time which leads to a more superficial listening and not that, “turn the lights out, put the headphones on, imagine yourself in the room or on the stage with the artist” kind of listening….
Hey Steve, I am at a stage where I can scat meaningful solo for full form over not so crazy changes and if I want to, I can transcribe myself and put it on the sax. In fact, that's how I've been making up my solos if I want to impress. I've had tonnes of listening at around 40-50k minutes per year consistently for the past few years and 99% has been jazz (e.g. bebop and stuff) lol. I think that's where I got the chance to develop the sound in my head and form lines intuitively. The thing is I have not been disciplined or diligent enough to analyse the lines I've heard from songs or the lines I've created myself and put it to different keys. So I am still pretty handicapped to improvise on the sax even though I am really hearing things at the moment. Do you think that I can give no f to all the changes/technical analysis/memorisation of licks and just have fun by playing what I hear consistently as a way to ultimately be freely expressing on the sax?
When transcribing, how important is it to write it down rather than going straight to the horn? Is there something I am missing out on by not writing it down?
Playing it on the instrument is THE most important thing. If you want to write it down to archive it, go for it! But you're not missing out by not writing it down (as long as you're also analyzing parts that you like and are working on getting them into your playing).
I like transcribing licks or phrases that I find interesting or that I like. But I’m on no level to break it apart and analyze it or to figure out how to play it in 12 keys. Or put it into something that is useful. Is that bad? So I just use it to learn how to play faster, work on my intonation etc. I’m simply trying to copy everything that I hear (or think that I hear)
So even with ear training, surely you don't need to complete each solo in full? Lots of smaller exercises of different styles, genres, instrumentation and textures is going to have an overall greater impact than getting through that 27th (or whatever) chorus of Gonsalves solo on Diminuendo and Crescendo in Blur, for example? An excerpt from Bach, a sax section soil especially the inner lines, Beethoven etc
100%! I was just saying that if you want to transcribe a BUNCH of stuff to work on transcribing, then doing a full solo would make sense. But absolutely doing small sections like I do also gets you better at it too!
I like the idea of cherry - picking phrases and lines for your personal repertoire. If you practice in 12 keys, as you suggest, that should help to retain them. How else do you preserve your hard earned transcription knowledge? I haven't yet applied myself very much to write down charts. On another note, I've had this Eddie Harris book for years titled "Jazz Cliche Capers" which has never made any sense to me. Maybe I'm ready for it now, after many years.
I agree with this. There are a lot of licks and phrases I love from Brecker but not the entire solo. I like to take the parts I like, understand the rhythm and chord patterns, and then think about what kinds of songs I can use them in, and also what can I add to put my own flavor into the phrase
Thats what i needed..always going so much time for one solo and never used all stuff in my playing..never thought about that from this angle..Thanks again Dave🤙🏼
I recently wrote an English essay on this topic where the prompt was "Write an essay on a topic with conflicting viewpoints." I took a very similar stance, where I find it easier and a more versatile approach to learn smaller parts of the solo and take it through the keys. I find myself fully absorbing and understanding the piece of language better as you really learn the ins and outs of the phrase. However, there are many things to learn from transcribing entire solos, namely learning prolonged phrasing and how to build a solo, use repetition, learn the harmony of a full tune, etc. I believe that both are very useful, but the first way is more efficient. Additionally, many people attempt to emulate someone's sound to the closest of their ability, emulating exact use of air, mistakes, meticulous timing, etc. However, while this contributes to a more accurate intimation of the artist, I find myself believing that focusing in the large concepts the soloist brings within a solo are more important to focus on than the meticulous nitty gritty elements. But I definitely see the value in it, as you want to think like the artist you are learning from as much as possible.
This reminds me of what hal garper said about practicing. He said that we should pick licks or lines from someone that relates to us. Well there's nothing wrong on transcribing a the whole solo. If the player wants it then why not?haha but it is more better on doing it on small bits. It saves a lot of time and we can focus on what matters other than spending an entite hour transcribing a damn solo😆. We should practice things that we like haha.
I've kind of been trying this a little bit since this video came out. I respect it, but I'm realizing that to my preferences, I think full solos, or at least moderately sized chunks of solos are better. The reason I think this is that I think it's fun to be able to play along to solos, or if one of your buddies is playing a recording that you've transcribed a solo on, it's a badass move (or asshole move, take your pick) to be able to vocally bust out the solo along with the track. I also find myself bouncing around a lot between ideas/solos/recordings/techniques. So forcing myself to slow down and really internalize one player's sound at a time seems more satisfying. I find that the ideas I remember the best are the ones I've spent the most time with and really digging into a single solo helps with that. Also on the topic of just transcribing the bits you like, I honestly feel that I like stuff on the first listen VERY rarely. If I sit down and really figure out the context, I tend to enjoy stuff a lot more.
I don't think any of this is necessarily counter to what Dave is saying, but I feel like I'm realizing that it's good to take what works for other people and try it for a bit. If you like it, great! But also, be open to the idea that that way of practicing may be less beneficial or satisfying for you. And that doesn't mean that either their way or your way of practicing is "wrong". Even if the person who shared the practice tip is a great player (like Dave in this instance)
I feel that the key is reflection on your own playing and practicing and constantly making little tweaks to keep a good balance of what you like and what makes the music stick in your ears long term.
Now the question is, which solos did You transcribe in full? :)
Maybe I'll get into that in another video!
Thank you for this great words of wisdom. I agree 100% Dave. I discovered this fact by accident and it has freed me from the frustrations of learning full solos and made my playing more dynamic.
Thank you for this information, it’s great
I fall into the category of transcribing full solos - just sort of fell into this more than having a logical reason. It has some benefits for me - it takes me a while, so I "live" with the music longer, and record pretty constantly to try and mimic as closely as possible the inflections played. It is also kind of emotional satisfying to memorize something that long. That said, it takes an incredible amount of time, and it often gets in the way of really understanding the harmonic/rhythm detail of the parts of the music that really entranced me in the first place. I'm way too lame at really understanding and internalizing key pieces of the solo - like you describe at about 5 minutes. This is where I should focus next. Always nice to hear your viewpoints!
One thing I've been doing since the end of this spring semester has been to listen to a whole album (namely Red Garland's Piano) all the way through while sitting at the piano. I heard somebody say at a jazz fest I went to this spring that for every hour practicing, you should spend two hours listening. I'd heard songs from this album before, but I'd never listened to the whole thing. I love Red Garland's sound, so I'm planning to continue listening to it over the summer to let the sound of each member of the trio to really soak in. I'm picking up bits and pieces of the vocab, but I'm really using it as more of an ear training/listening exercise.
This is great advice. Thanks a lot!
You are such a pro and talented musician. I love your videos. Fantastic!
Thank you so much for those kind words!
@@DavePollackYou are the best!
Paul Desmond on "My Romance", Miles Davis on "So What". Two choruses of Jesse Davis on "Gingerbread Boy" recently. Will have to leave out the double time parts and continue on selective parts.
Agreed!
🤘
Great video and great thoughts. I totally agree with you. I’m also in the 5 or less full solo category. Ive transcribed many lines or snippets of solos for exactly your reasons but mostly because I loved the sound of that particular line and wanted to figure it out. I think something that is missed though in the “mandatory transcription assignment in higher ed conversation” is the skill of deep listening. Listening deeply(many, many listenings) to a recording of a particular player will absolutely change your playing…maybe even more than transcribing. Feel, tone, rhythm, vibrato, air…all will be affected through deep listening. I think with apps now to help in the transcription process there may not be as much time spent listening in real time which leads to a more superficial listening and not that, “turn the lights out, put the headphones on, imagine yourself in the room or on the stage with the artist” kind of listening….
I love this! I absolutely agree with you, and that deep (active) listening is incredible important for development.
AMEN!!!!
Hey Steve, I am at a stage where I can scat meaningful solo for full form over not so crazy changes and if I want to, I can transcribe myself and put it on the sax. In fact, that's how I've been making up my solos if I want to impress. I've had tonnes of listening at around 40-50k minutes per year consistently for the past few years and 99% has been jazz (e.g. bebop and stuff) lol. I think that's where I got the chance to develop the sound in my head and form lines intuitively. The thing is I have not been disciplined or diligent enough to analyse the lines I've heard from songs or the lines I've created myself and put it to different keys. So I am still pretty handicapped to improvise on the sax even though I am really hearing things at the moment. Do you think that I can give no f to all the changes/technical analysis/memorisation of licks and just have fun by playing what I hear consistently as a way to ultimately be freely expressing on the sax?
When transcribing, how important is it to write it down rather than going straight to the horn? Is there something I am missing out on by not writing it down?
Playing it on the instrument is THE most important thing. If you want to write it down to archive it, go for it! But you're not missing out by not writing it down (as long as you're also analyzing parts that you like and are working on getting them into your playing).
@@DavePollack Thank you Dave!
I like transcribing licks or phrases that I find interesting or that I like. But I’m on no level to break it apart and analyze it or to figure out how to play it in 12 keys. Or put it into something that is useful. Is that bad?
So I just use it to learn how to play faster, work on my intonation etc. I’m simply trying to copy everything that I hear (or think that I hear)
So even with ear training, surely you don't need to complete each solo in full? Lots of smaller exercises of different styles, genres, instrumentation and textures is going to have an overall greater impact than getting through that 27th (or whatever) chorus of Gonsalves solo on Diminuendo and Crescendo in Blur, for example? An excerpt from Bach, a sax section soil especially the inner lines, Beethoven etc
100%! I was just saying that if you want to transcribe a BUNCH of stuff to work on transcribing, then doing a full solo would make sense. But absolutely doing small sections like I do also gets you better at it too!
I like the idea of cherry - picking phrases and lines for your personal repertoire. If you practice in 12 keys, as you suggest, that should help to retain them. How else do you preserve your hard earned transcription knowledge? I haven't yet applied myself very much to write down charts. On another note, I've had this Eddie Harris book for years titled "Jazz Cliche Capers" which has never made any sense to me. Maybe I'm ready for it now, after many years.
at 4:43 you skipped a bit too fast over your idea for a new fun series of videos "can i shoehorn this !"
👀👀
@@DavePollack lol