My grandparents were Eddie and Mina Smith Sherman...she played well into her 90th year I would tell people about her tales of Eddie, William Morris , their travels and bookings movies and records and until the internet almost no one ever believed me She raised me until I was 13
Well Cathleen....to have grandparents like that, associated with the best girl band in musical history......you must feel proud and rightly so. The mystery is why only one film was ever made of this astonishing Band!
My grandmother, Peggy Price, played the sousaphone and the bass in this orchestra and later in The Fourteen Bricktops. I think it included many of the same members, with Bobbie Grice conducting.
The cellist, Adelheid Liefeld was my grandmother. She studied music at the University of Chicago but women were not hired in orchestras at that time (with the exception of harpists). After playing with the Ingenues, she married and moved to Winnipeg, where she played cello in the Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra.
Two of my great aunts were Ingenues: Grace and Genevieve Brown. I have lots of old clippings that they collected on their journey around the world with Ziegfeld.
So thankful this amazing piece of our musical heritage and history is preserved. To many, this era was the golden age of Jazz and popular music. Seeing/hearing these incredible musicians, it's hard to argue against it.😊
I am drummer just to have a disiplin skill, play at a this level and time with the comforts we have today,, to see how feminism is embarrassing now with todays women's grievances ,,,
The information provided by subtitle is perfectly done. Thank you whoever! What an amazing act. The accordion performance of Rain must have been amazing to hear first hand. Thanks again.
Thank you for uploading this. It really made my day. What a wonderful piece of history to share, such a rare gem in terms of footage depicting women of the past banding together in the arts to make something wonderful. I'm sure it happened a lot more than we even know. It's so quirky and fun and full of life.Makes me wonder about the rest of the story, how they came together and what happened to them after the band disbanded.
Thank you for the post and the annotations. I too have questions, based on my little bit of research, as to the identity of both the harpist and the cellist, and who the leader was (Frances Gorton, possibly?). That notwithstanding, as a multi-instrumentalist I am enormously impressed with these players. It's sad (but not surprising in view of what is currently being peddled as entertainment) that their talents and memory have been consigned to near-oblivion. How many of today's "artists" possess even the tiniest fraction of these womens' abilities?
I agree that it's sad we don't know a lot about this group and that they are incredibly impressive. There's such a spread of diverse ability in one space and all of them being female is a real early feminist stance perhaps.
Amusing to hear Irving Berlin's 'Shakin' the Blues Away' in this strict-tempo banjo rendition. Now watch Ann Miller in 'Easter Parade' for the hot version. Two kinds of liberated lady.
Thanks for taking the trouble to research this. As you say, not much is known about them but at least a bit more is now, and rightly so as they were very extremely talented musicians.
The recording of Chloe is a fascinating curiosity, possesing what the Adelaide Advertiser called in 1929, 'a delicious naivety'. I'd never heard it before your post but what a gem.There's something curiously whimsical about the Ingenues version which defeats time, and brings the song, with all of its quaintness, into our age. There has never been anything like them since! Thanks for the post.
Thank, you, for the post and the annotations. If I get more information on the band, I'll share with you. Perhaps you'd like to receive some material about their tour in Brazil. So write me: iovismaximus@hotmail.com. Regards.
Thanks so much for posting names of some of the musicians....Have viewed this video so many times from others just to listen and view such an historical band now from past years.....
Why would they refer to the sousaphone as an instrument of the past? They are still widely used by marching bands throughout the US and I'm sure they have been for at least the last 80 years. I played one in grade school 50 years ago until a regular tuba was available. The sousaphone was designed for the marching band because it could rest on the shoulder. Otherwise, the tuba has a better sound.
Compare this rendition of Tiger Rag with the version by Charles Dormberger and his Orchestra recorded on May 10, 1927 and issued on Victor 20647. It's obviously the same (stock?) arrangement, with a few added features, including a "scat vocal effect".
Spot on James; thanks for pointing me there...the arrangement is the same, right to the final clarinet solo!....and it shows just how good The Fabulous Ingenues were!
I wonder if Ingenues 2017 could ever be put together? Perhaps not multi-instrumentists, but there would be nothing like them around......and I believe they would have an audience.
Nicely put Unmusica. The identity of the Ingenues remains, mostly, a mystery. This film survives to tell us something of the delight they must have brought to millions, in an age when you had to be good to shine.Today a group like the Ingenues would be impossible; no one wants to play anything other than the guitar...... result ?; burgeoning pop mediocrity riddled with 'The Emporer's New Clothes' syndrome.
Oh Ingenues, oh Ingenues, have you seen Ingenues, the music band of 20 wimen, they had bodded hairstyles folks adored so, and a musicality folks admired even more so, Ingenues, oh Ingenues the multi instrumentality band, Oh Ingenues the queens of music of them all, On their back front was a sousaphone, In the next row was a kazoo, and they performed like an instrumental choir, on banjo and piano accordion, you can enjoy the good old day with Ingenues. La la la la la la La la la la la la They can give you a perspective of 1920s music, if you make a search on youtube, for free you can see a great potpourri, and get some minutes of enjoyment. La la la la la la La la la la la la Oh Ingenues, oh Ingenues, have you seen Ingenues.
I have an especial interest on the harpist. Are you sure that she is Pat Hurley? Wouldn't she be Marguerite O'Neal (aka Marguerite Lichtie). I found some information on Pat Hurley, and, according to the site, she was 16 y.o. in 1936. Is it possible? Let's keep in touch. Regards.
In October 1926 Eddie Sherman, who managed the newly formed band, nearly died after being beaten up by angry electricians at a Chicago theater. He had hired a non-union man. The Ingenues and he survived. William Morris, the rising talent agency, signed them and they broke through in the 1927 edition of the Ziegfeld Follies, which featured them in his biggest finale yet. That led to two world tours and dates at major venues such as the Palace, NYC. Numbers fluctuated from 13 to 25 and they were seen as several bands in one, including dancers and singers. Their act could run up to 30 mins. Once they filled in as bill-toppers for Eddie Cantor, one of vaudeville's biggest draws, and even in the Depression they could get $2,500 pw. The novelty of all-female outfits waned, and matrimony depleted their ranks. They disbanded in 1937.
Thanks for that priceless gen. Would something like the Ingenues be possible today?......probably not, given that music styles change with each generation....but they have their place in history.
@@Firebrand55 Remember how unusual all-girl rock bands were until well into the Seventies. I would say popular music underwent a regression as far as opportunities for female musicians were concerned once the electric began to oust the acoustic.
@@esmeephillips5888 Amongst the first girl groups were Goldie & the Gingerbreads, 1964, followed by The Pleasure Seekers with Suzi Quatro, 1968, pioneers in their own right. Check out YT for other girl bands of yesteryear, e.g. Phil Spitalny and his Musical Queens, et seq.
@@Firebrand55 The ones I remember making a stir c. 1971 were Fanny. Chicks with guitars! And a rude name! But there was more of an air of novelty about them than about the Coquettes or the Hour of Charm- rightly so on the recorded evidence. And no battles of the rock bands to settle the question. Girl groups to most record buyers meant vocalizers such as the Supremes, Vandellas, Gladys Mitchell, Shangri Las, Ronettes etc. There were no Viola Smiths to challenge the Moons and Bonhams as she challenged Rich or Krupa. I see this as part of the general pullback from the salience of women in pop culture which set in after WW2. The symbol of this in film was the exaltation of simpering, wiggling child-women such as Monroe instead of commanding presences such as Garbo, Davis and Stanwyck. Women went to movies less after the war. As the audience shrank it became more male. Action movies supplanted musicals (another genre full of female stars) and heavier amplified sounds were favored over the melodic orchestral versatility in which girl bands excelled. Mind you, compared with today's Autotune and rap even the 1970s look like a paradise for women.
The interesting thing is ....why are there no girl bands around today?......maybe the cost of the instruments, or the fading of big band music. A band like the Ingenues today would rake in millions at the box office!
Your info may be correct Marcello; my sources are few and somewhat vague.There is a programme from an Adalaide concert identifying the girls but is indistinct,(Wikipedia entry, The Ingenues.) On balance your source sounds stronger so I'll alter the annotation in the film. Thanks very much.If I find out more I'll let you know. If anyone has any further info on the Fabulous Ingenues I'd love to hear it. The search for the Ingenues goes on!
In the first row, third from the left is Mina smith. She was a concert violinist and was brought in as a special featured act for the Ingenues; that's why at that time, she didn't know their regular routine songs and had to fake it.
@@prairiefirebandjoliet7224 ...and was the prettiest "Ingenue" by a good stretch! I did notice that she was faking (I'm a violinist) but didn't know the background...thanks!
if you mean the dark brunette that is Mina Smith..Juliliard...not a mime just could never sit still she is the one who arranged the violins and refinements....
@@prairiefirebandjoliet7224 In June 1930 the 20-member Ingenues played the Palace, a vaudeville house in Chicago. Their set topped the bill, running for 35 minutes, including a 'toe dancer'. Variety's reviewer, 'Loop', wrote that Mina Smith's only contribution was one classical piece, yet she was billed as a special attraction. 'Girls are shy on comedy and rather technical.' He judged that without a leader they were stronger on musicianship than showmanship, with 'lack of snap'. A later notice of this show said that Mina was advertized as 'Europe's Loveliest Concert Violiniste'.
This appears, if I am not mistaken, in better focus, at ua-cam.com/video/ULjmHqPU-Pg/v-deo.html The film above and its annotations are fascinating tho.
I don't know, especially given the overall poor garbage that passes for cinema today...with some exceptions....but there would seem to be a lot of stories about these women and this band that would make an excellent film. Maybe I'll try writing a film 'treatment'.
My grandparents were Eddie and Mina Smith Sherman...she played well into her 90th year I would tell people about her tales of Eddie, William Morris , their travels and bookings movies and records and until the internet almost no one ever believed me She raised me until I was 13
Well Cathleen....to have grandparents like that, associated with the best girl band in musical history......you must feel proud and rightly so. The mystery is why only one film was ever made of this astonishing Band!
@@Firebrand55 there were three made in Sao Paulo and at least two in LA/Hollywood
My grandmother, Peggy Price, played the sousaphone and the bass in this orchestra and later in The Fourteen Bricktops. I think it included many of the same members, with Bobbie Grice conducting.
The cellist, Adelheid Liefeld was my grandmother. She studied music at the University of Chicago but women were not hired in orchestras at that time (with the exception of harpists). After playing with the Ingenues, she married and moved to Winnipeg, where she played cello in the Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra.
I've gotten my first 5 String Cello
Thank you for sharing that!
Thank U for sharing !
Your Granny is an absolute legend.
Two of my great aunts were Ingenues: Grace and Genevieve Brown. I have lots of old clippings that they collected on their journey around the world with Ziegfeld.
that's exhalent nice with all the silly hang ups of today,,, Australia ..
I just love seeing this. My grandmother is Alice Pleis and she married my grandfather, the "manager and electrician" for the ingenues, Ray Fabing.
what kind of manager? my grandfather, Edward G. Sherman was the manager and booking agent he traveled with them around the world
My grandfather, a manager also Eddie Sherman
So thankful this amazing piece of our musical heritage and history is preserved. To many, this era was the golden age of Jazz and popular music. Seeing/hearing these incredible musicians, it's hard to argue against it.😊
My Great Aunt Lucy Westgate played flute and sax in the Orchestra. She was from Rhinelander, Wisconsin.
WOW! This needs to be made into a film. The kind of women's "liberation" a real man can totally embrace!
I am drummer just to have a disiplin skill, play at a this level and time with the comforts we have today,, to see how feminism is embarrassing now with todays women's grievances ,,,
Surely it *has* been made into a film!
in those generations it was necessity that created the liberation work ethic and personal morals not slogans and sign just hard persistence
The information provided by subtitle is perfectly done. Thank you whoever! What an amazing act. The accordion performance of Rain must have been amazing to hear first hand. Thanks again.
So much emotion, so beautiful, gentle music that we need at the present.. Thanks
This was a wonderful tribute to an incredible musical entourage!
The best musicians on youtube or anywhere else. WOW
Thank you for uploading this. It really made my day. What a wonderful piece of history to share, such a rare gem in terms of footage depicting women of the past banding together in the arts to make something wonderful. I'm sure it happened a lot more than we even know. It's so quirky and fun and full of life.Makes me wonder about the rest of the story, how they came together and what happened to them after the band disbanded.
Great on-screen notes and photos! I saw this short some years ago and it became one of my favorites. Thanks for the information on them.
Thank you for the post and the annotations. I too have questions, based on my little bit of research, as to the identity of both the harpist and the cellist, and who the leader was (Frances Gorton, possibly?). That notwithstanding, as a multi-instrumentalist I am enormously impressed with these players. It's sad (but not surprising in view of what is currently being peddled as entertainment) that their talents and memory have been consigned to near-oblivion. How many of today's "artists" possess even the tiniest fraction of these womens' abilities?
I agree that it's sad we don't know a lot about this group and that they are incredibly impressive. There's such a spread of diverse ability in one space and all of them being female is a real early feminist stance perhaps.
Since the featured accodionist has the name "Frances" on her accordion, that may be Frances Gorton.
Amusing to hear Irving Berlin's 'Shakin' the Blues Away' in this strict-tempo banjo rendition. Now watch Ann Miller in 'Easter Parade' for the hot version. Two kinds of liberated lady.
Thanks for taking the trouble to research this. As you say, not much is known about them but at least a bit more is now, and rightly so as they were very extremely talented musicians.
The recording of Chloe is a fascinating curiosity, possesing what the Adelaide Advertiser called in 1929, 'a delicious naivety'. I'd never heard it before your post but what a gem.There's something curiously whimsical about the Ingenues version which defeats time, and brings the song, with all of its quaintness, into our age.
There has never been anything like them since! Thanks for the post.
Thank, you, for the post and the annotations. If I get more information on the band, I'll share with you. Perhaps you'd like to receive some material about their tour in Brazil. So write me: iovismaximus@hotmail.com. Regards.
They were really fabulous!!
Thanks so much for posting names of some of the musicians....Have viewed this video so many times from others just to listen and view such an historical band now from past years.....
Why would they refer to the sousaphone as an instrument of the past? They are still widely used by marching bands throughout the US and I'm sure they have been for at least the last 80 years. I played one in grade school 50 years ago until a regular tuba was available. The sousaphone was designed for the marching band because it could rest on the shoulder. Otherwise, the tuba has a better sound.
There was clearly only one ironclad rule in the Ingenues: unless a banjo was one of your instruments, you were out.
Compare this rendition of Tiger Rag with the version by Charles Dormberger and his Orchestra recorded on May 10, 1927 and issued on Victor 20647. It's obviously the same (stock?) arrangement, with a few added features, including a "scat vocal effect".
Spot on James; thanks for pointing me there...the arrangement is the same, right to the final clarinet solo!....and it shows just how good The Fabulous Ingenues were!
great musican and great musicians. wish there were a few more hundred clips like this.
I wonder if Ingenues 2017 could ever be put together? Perhaps not multi-instrumentists, but there would be nothing like them around......and I believe they would have an audience.
@@Firebrand55 A reviewer in 1930 wrote that Eddie Sherman would be lucky to get his investment back bc he must have spent a fortune on instruments.
Nicely put Unmusica. The identity of the Ingenues remains, mostly, a mystery. This film survives to tell us something of the delight they must have brought to millions, in an age when you had to be good to shine.Today a group like the Ingenues would be impossible; no one wants to play anything other than the guitar...... result ?; burgeoning pop mediocrity riddled with 'The Emporer's New Clothes' syndrome.
if you review many of these site you can accumulate many of the names and some music education behind them
Bassoon solo
Big fan.... what's the banjo tune? I'd like to see the sheet music. ..asked then read. Comments. Lol
The net rules!!
Very impressed.
Oh Ingenues, oh Ingenues,
have you seen Ingenues,
the music band of 20 wimen,
they had bodded hairstyles folks adored so,
and a musicality folks admired even more so,
Ingenues, oh Ingenues the multi instrumentality band,
Oh Ingenues the queens of music of them all,
On their back front was a sousaphone,
In the next row was a kazoo,
and they performed like an instrumental choir,
on banjo and piano accordion,
you can enjoy the good old day with Ingenues.
La la la la la la
La la la la la la
They can give you a perspective of 1920s music,
if you make a search on youtube,
for free you can see a great potpourri,
and get some minutes of enjoyment.
La la la la la la
La la la la la la
Oh Ingenues, oh Ingenues,
have you seen Ingenues.
Wonderful! Thank you!
I have an especial interest on the harpist. Are you sure that she is Pat Hurley? Wouldn't she be Marguerite O'Neal (aka Marguerite Lichtie). I found some information on Pat Hurley, and, according to the site, she was 16 y.o. in 1936. Is it possible? Let's keep in touch. Regards.
This is the closest thing to Heaven on Earth!!!
They sound amazing!
In October 1926 Eddie Sherman, who managed the newly formed band, nearly died after being beaten up by angry electricians at a Chicago theater. He had hired a non-union man.
The Ingenues and he survived. William Morris, the rising talent agency, signed them and they broke through in the 1927 edition of the Ziegfeld Follies, which featured them in his biggest finale yet. That led to two world tours and dates at major venues such as the Palace, NYC.
Numbers fluctuated from 13 to 25 and they were seen as several bands in one, including dancers and singers. Their act could run up to 30 mins. Once they filled in as bill-toppers for Eddie Cantor, one of vaudeville's biggest draws, and even in the Depression they could get $2,500 pw.
The novelty of all-female outfits waned, and matrimony depleted their ranks. They disbanded in 1937.
Thanks for that priceless gen. Would something like the Ingenues be possible today?......probably not, given that music styles change with each generation....but they have their place in history.
@@Firebrand55 Remember how unusual all-girl rock bands were until well into the Seventies. I would say popular music underwent a regression as far as opportunities for female musicians were concerned once the electric began to oust the acoustic.
@@esmeephillips5888 Amongst the first girl groups were Goldie & the Gingerbreads, 1964, followed by The Pleasure Seekers with Suzi Quatro, 1968, pioneers in their own right. Check out YT for other girl bands of yesteryear, e.g. Phil Spitalny and his Musical Queens, et seq.
@@Firebrand55 The ones I remember making a stir c. 1971 were Fanny. Chicks with guitars! And a rude name! But there was more of an air of novelty about them than about the Coquettes or the Hour of Charm- rightly so on the recorded evidence. And no battles of the rock bands to settle the question.
Girl groups to most record buyers meant vocalizers such as the Supremes, Vandellas, Gladys Mitchell, Shangri Las, Ronettes etc. There were no Viola Smiths to challenge the Moons and Bonhams as she challenged Rich or Krupa.
I see this as part of the general pullback from the salience of women in pop culture which set in after WW2. The symbol of this in film was the exaltation of simpering, wiggling child-women such as Monroe instead of commanding presences such as Garbo, Davis and Stanwyck. Women went to movies less after the war. As the audience shrank it became more male. Action movies supplanted musicals (another genre full of female stars) and heavier amplified sounds were favored over the melodic orchestral versatility in which girl bands excelled.
Mind you, compared with today's Autotune and rap even the 1970s look like a paradise for women.
Buenísimo video
What songs were they playing? They were all Multi-Instrumentalists just like me.
And no music sheet in sight! Amazing!
@UC9q2HOfs_NXGa4bywlghG4g
They were all Multi-Instrumentalists just like me.
què lindo serìa hacer un documental o pelìcula sobre ellas.
Now I know what my Mother listened to when she was 14.
The interesting thing is ....why are there no girl bands around today?......maybe the cost of the instruments, or the fading of big band music. A band like the Ingenues today would rake in millions at the box office!
I would pay a $1,000 a seat in a nightclub to listen to these girls play, WOW!
Your info may be correct Marcello; my sources are few and somewhat vague.There is a programme from an Adalaide concert identifying the girls but is indistinct,(Wikipedia entry, The Ingenues.) On balance your source sounds stronger so I'll alter the annotation in the film. Thanks very much.If I find out more I'll let you know. If anyone has any further info on the Fabulous Ingenues I'd love to hear it. The search for the Ingenues goes on!
If you'll pay close attention, the violinist on the far right is not playing at all, only miming what the others are doing.
In the first row, third from the left is Mina smith. She was a concert violinist and was brought in as a special featured act for the Ingenues; that's why at that time, she didn't know their regular routine songs and had to fake it.
@@prairiefirebandjoliet7224 ...and was the prettiest "Ingenue" by a good stretch! I did notice that she was faking (I'm a violinist) but didn't know the background...thanks!
if you mean the dark brunette that is Mina Smith..Juliliard...not a mime just could never sit still she is the one who arranged the violins and refinements....
@@cathleenhunzeker1344 (I'm now JazzVictrola) Well she was a genius!
@@prairiefirebandjoliet7224 In June 1930 the 20-member Ingenues played the Palace, a vaudeville house in Chicago. Their set topped the bill, running for 35 minutes, including a 'toe dancer'. Variety's reviewer, 'Loop', wrote that Mina Smith's only contribution was one classical piece, yet she was billed as a special attraction. 'Girls are shy on comedy and rather technical.' He judged that without a leader they were stronger on musicianship than showmanship, with 'lack of snap'.
A later notice of this show said that Mina was advertized as 'Europe's Loveliest Concert Violiniste'.
A somewhat better quality of the "Tiger Rag" scene can be seen here: ua-cam.com/video/Y-V_tyXNW_M/v-deo.html
Fine
This appears, if I am not mistaken, in better focus, at ua-cam.com/video/ULjmHqPU-Pg/v-deo.html The film above and its annotations are fascinating tho.
I don't know, especially given the overall poor garbage that passes for cinema today...with some exceptions....but there would seem to be a lot of stories about these women and this band that would make an excellent film. Maybe I'll try writing a film 'treatment'.
LASTIMA QUE L VIDEO NO SE VE NÍTIDO PARA MIRARAR BIEN SUS CARAS A SI TOD ME GUSTO TODAS TOCAN DIFRENTE INSTRUMENTO
Where is all the "Talented women" of hollywood?
unsure this group is out of Chicago mainly
How about having this film AI-upgraded to Color 4K 60fps?
Great idea Rick.The colour upgrading of old films om YT is improving rapidly....but whoto contact?
Their Wikipedia page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ingenues