Vince Russo oversaw yearly growth in TNA and they were at their viewership peak when he was writing, so why would he even be in the conversation? 2011 was their highest-watched year and then as soon as he left they declined year after year.
The current product is very good I agree. A lot has gone into it over the yrs. Many steps have been taken. If they can keep progressing, who knows. I'm excited for TNA, especially next yr.
@jaibhavsar1 (Edit: I didn't catch your references the first time I read your reply, so apologies)I'm not sure if you are joking or if perhaps in your country of origin that is what it is called but in the US one of the company's quirks is that it's women's division was renamed the Knockouts around the same time as WWE changed their female division's name to Divas. TNA has kept the name as they were always taking it's women's division seriously and with respect for the most part.
Wwe called Mickie the women's champ not knockouts champ. Also, vince reportedly didn't know Mickie was the champ when they asked her to be in the rumble.
@@AndrewDaughtry The point I was tryna make was that WWE and Vince weren't trying to establish a relationship with TNA at this time. They asked Mickie cos she is a legend not cos she was TNA champ
@@NuMetalfan1996 People think because they personally didn't like his creative, it's suddenly a fact that he destroyed the comapny. As long as he's getting the viewership up (which he was) then he can be considered important to creative.
It's wild, his run at the beginning during the weekly PPV's was so bad. The idea of bringing him back, especially when doing so could kill the tv deal, was ridiculous, but Jeff Jarrett needed to be champion so he wanted Russo in
@@hitmonkey3602 He had nothing to do with killing the tv deal. That was debunked years ago by numerous sources. Why would the tv network be unhappy that the show's most successful writer was back working there? Higher ratings = more money in ad revenue for them.
What annoys me is how many people Dixie let take advantage of her, She genuinely was a fan who wanted the best for the company. Towards the end she was funding the company with her own money.
I disagree that she wanted the best for the company. To her, it had become a vanity project that was all about putting her on international television and having people say how attractive she was. The beginning of the Claire Lynch storyline is perhaps the most obvious example of this.
@@NuMetalfan1996 yeah you make it about AEW. No one mentioned it until you but you go out there show everyone how stupid you are. Dude. HE JUST SIGNED A 5 YEAR 900 MILLION DOLLAR TV DEAL! Shut up about him not knowing how to run a wrestling company!
The revolving door of Jarrett, Russo, and Bischoff is a who’s who of creative guys who undoubtedly need someone above them that can filter out their worst plans and run with the best ones if they are going to work, and Dixie Carter was just not in any way that person.
And what was WCW”s downfall?, the downfall was giving the talents creative control, and terrible booking in 1999 and 2000. That was killed WCW, nothing else.
@@Gazowen-qz5xy nah What killed WCW was their parent company did not want wrestling on their channels at the time so they decided to write it as a tax payoff. Which Vince saw the opportunity to buy it.
Surprised that they didn't mention Jim Cornette's involvement with the company. Considering that he sent that one email where he stated he would "piss on Russo's grave, even he has to be wheeled there by his girlfriend"
I love how this is the second time Russo could be shouldered with the downfall of a company but just barely wriggles out of 100% culpability. Awesome video guys! My knowledge of TNA is threadbare, so this was a cool little look into their history.
According to how online fans are toxic, tribalists and generally stupid, I am already envisioning a "Who really killed AEW?" with AEW surviving easily the next 50 years
I’ll push back on one thing: most people who watch tna watch their shows on tna+. TNA is far cheaper to follow than AEW. While it certainly doesn’t have the roster AEW has, I would argue they use their talent better.
I subscribed during slammiversary with that promo code and I agree it’s cheaper to follow for sure and much like nxt which also follow big time, all of the talent have a chance for time in the ring or a promo.
I strongly dislike Russo but it shocks me he was the lead creative mind during that great two month run before Hogan/Bischoff. It almost upsets me he was in charge of arguably my fav TNA run lolol
It'll be always be Dixie. Russo is an absolute turd with the worst ideas ever but the fact he wasn't only hired but REHIRED will forever baffle me. Hogan, Bischoff and friends were a cancer but again only allowed to take root because of Dixie.
Great fn video Luke. These historical pieces on wrestling and on the entertainment channel are things that should live on the internet forever. True passion projects that connect to those of us who also lived through these things.
Hearing how Dixie Carter and Jeff Jarrett wouldn’t let others move the company away from their ideas explains why Paul Heyman told Ariel Helwani “TNA isn’t ready” for him to take over creative. He outlined amazing ideas, but said that TNA wasn’t ready for someone like him - turns out they couldn’t bring themselves to hand over the car keys to someone who actually knew how to drive.
One of my favourite lol TNA stories was coming up to Spike and TNA’s TV rights renewal Spike had originally stated they did not want Vince Russo booking TNA. Of course they didn’t adhere to this demand, but Spike did not know of this (even if the fans could tell by the booking). Spike found out because of a Mike Johnston report because Russo emailed Johnston instead of Mike Tenay. Once Spike heard this, they decided not to renew the TV deal and thus TNA’s TV deal struggles began
This is the most minor of minor points, but I just wanted to say how much I appreciated the reference to Hamada when discussion of the Knockouts came up. I had been following her career since ARSION, so I was thrilled when she joined the roster in 2009 (and subsequently furious about the ludicrous title stripping which led to her being sidelined & eventually leaving after barely a year). Of all the victims of the Hogan-Bischoff era, she was the one that infuriated me the most. I'd always held out hope she'd make a special appearance on NXT or AEW, even if it's just to put over a champion, but thus far that hasn't happened. As she's a 26-year veteran, I'm hoping that happens sooner rather than later...
I like to imagine they've been wanting to make this video for years, but TNA's refusal to die has stopped them from doing so, so they decided "Sod it" and made it while the company was still active.
It's actually really simple. The highest PPV buy rate was Joe/Angle the first ever match at 60k. How? TNA never reached the heights that should have because the never could figure out how to properly promote PPV's TNA was getting 1 million to 2 million viewers at their peak on Spike TV, and they could only convert at the most 6 percent? Thats a huge problem.
They say Russo didn't have anything with the deal failing, but I'd argue that if he wasn't ever involved TNA would have been worth what Dixie tried to get ($24m). So not directly, no, but totally a reason they weren't that valued.
Russo was there from 2006 to 2011 and their viewership was going up every year. Their peak was in 2011 (Russo's final year). They went into decline when Prichard replaced him.
I don't think all the blame goes to her but Dixie had no business running that company or especially being in front of camera. She knew nothing of the business and made decisions that greatly impacted the company in a negative way. She's one of the main reasons I'm surprised the company didn't die before now and it's a miracle the current regime and the regime under Scott D'Amore were able to pull it back to being a respectable promotion.
Incredible video. Hogan and Bischoff's run is surreal now that you laid it all out. Took over after two all time great PPVs and spit in the faces of fans from day one. Hired both of their kids with big pushes. Made so many important TNA wrestlers lose hope.
Very good video Luke! Like you and I am TNA mark from the earlier days and having this breakdown really reminded me how it survived all the things that would have killed a normal company.
Letting Scott D'Amore go was a mistake. Yeah it's a bit better today, but I believe it would be much better if they kept him around and hired a wrestling veteran who didn't have a bloated head on his/her shoulders!
For the longest time I have blamed Hogan/Bischoff for destroying TNA. They ruined everything that made it different, buried home grown talent in favor of hogans friends. But...yeah. the bill stops with Dixie. Its her.
Really have loved this series of videos (WCW & ECW). Luke's wrestling knowledge is showcased brilliantly here. Would love to see him cover individual careers in a similar vein too this! Great stuff!
Scott D'Amore, Dutch Mantell, Jim Cornette, Jeremy Borash. Looking back on it, those were the creatives behind the stuff I remember as what got me watching during the SpikeTV era. There were some highlights, but Hogan/Biscoff was what ran me off after the loss of the 6 sided ring. I didnt know anything about behind the scenes, i wasnt smart, while I enjoyed stuff like Curry Man and Sharkboy or the Woo off, but that couldn't keep me. I didnt make it through 2011. I didnt really know why until I came back after the Final Deletion and started learning about everything. The LU cross over and merger, Rosemary, 2017 got me back into TNA and Ive tried to hype them up to people and talked about the distinct and exceptional eras and runs theyve had. OvE vs Lucha Bros, the whole Rosemary and Bunny Saga, rise of Brian Cage, Johnny Impact. The pandemic and AEW talent raid hurt them. Theyve been rebuilding with star making like Speedball and Jordynne Grace. Joe Hendry is their latest success of masterful booking. I want TNA to get to where theyre a full power promotion again and not be a WWE feeder system though the NXT stuff has been good. TNA needs eyeballs and needs a more accessible channel than AXS. I still think that if the same product was on a bigger network, it would rival AEW.
As someone who watches TNA weekly (while im at work, I'm a bartender) its really boring. Like for some reason they're simply not gonna pull the trigger on Joe Hendry. Seriously NXT treats Joe Hendry better than TNA, he's always in a damn 6 man tag match against Moose's team. I think they're pushing Santana, but its weird seeing him by himself. Matt Cordona pops up sometimes. Curt Hawkins is still in a tag team within a faction, and i honestly don't know much of the wrestlers on the roster. Its clear once WWE gets Jordynn Grace and Joe Hendry, they're gonna kick TNA to the curb, and TNA is gonna go back to like 60k views a week or something
Even as an 8 year old, i knew TNA goin to Monday night was so dumb. But i rm that first episode and i rm jumping to see Bret Hart on Raw, it was the closest it got for me to experience the WCW/WWF rivalry, but literally after that, i would just watch Raw and watch TNA the day after bc i had it recorded
I've long thought Dixie was the main reason TNA fell as far as it did. There never seemed to be much she did that benefitted the company or its standing, and it always seemed to be in a slow descent. I was completely convinced when she let AJ Styles leave, and the manner in which he left has never felt right to me. I would love to see him have one last run in TNA just to right that sour ending.
I love TNA I still watch it to this day it brought me back to wrestling after falling out of love with WWE that's where I first saw him.... The Phenomenal 1
I remember in 2004-2005 emailing Foxtel, Australia's 'cable' TV provider and asking them to get TNA. I would have been fifteen. I was such a massive fan then
I will go to my grave convinced Scott D'Amore left, or was fired because he was told they were putting together their working arrangement with WWE. He, like me, I think felt this was the new way to takeover TNA and kill it like they did with WCW. At that time, that working arraignment could have prevented AEW for getting off the ground or WWE tying up talent at TNA's expense as their new "developmental company". Scott D'Amore likely saw this as a piss-poor way to repay his efforts to keep TNA the anti-WWE. None of this happened over night, and Scott D'Amore's efforts to buy TNA was to stop this "partnership" from ruining everything he did to bring them back from the brink. He should have been allowed to take the company into the future. He earned that. But to be pushed aside to allow an untrusted group to come in and likely force their influence over his successes was too much for him to take. He either threatened to quit if it happened, or made such a stink they fired him.
When Russo, hogan, and Bischoff got there, I knew it was over. They even survived Jeff Jarrett giving himself his own company's belt early on. Still, TNA gave me Monty Brown, AJ styles, beer money, MCMG, the best American female division with phenomenal (pun intended) women from Gail Kim, Awesome Kong, and so many more.
I stopped watching TNA the day Sting got let go and when they rebranded themselves as “Impact Wrestling”. I still shake my head to this day as to why they would choose to hire Vince, Russo, Eric Bischoff, or even Hulk Hogan for that matter to give their company a boost and I also blame Dixie Carter for her decisions behind the scenes as well as well as her involvement at the time (even though I smiled when I saw Bully Ray put her through a table back in 2014)
Sadly, it all comes down to Dixie Carter. She had the greatest influence on the trajectory of TNA. She didn't know the history of the industry and kept empowering people to make poor decisions for the company with no financial fall back on them for their failures. I followed the product from 2004 to early 2015. Changing away from the 6-sided ring cost the company a lot of their identity, as they suddenly looked like every other promotion. As much as I want to hate on her time in TNA, she was also one of the creative forces that helped to shape the identity of the company in the early years; most notably in how the show looked. I have read articles from years ago about how she would spend her own money in order to help build risers for the fans and actually would paint the set herself in order to cut costs so talent could be paid in the early days. That does not excuse the costs that went out during the Hogan/Bischoff Era though. The high dollar contracts undeniably hurt the product and ultimately cost the company dearly.
I’ve always rooted for TNA. I remember being board with WWE in 2011 pre Pipe-bomb (not as good as Steiner math) and TNA was the first not WWE wrestling I found. And that’s how I learned I loved wrestling. Because it was still a car crash but the characters were more creative and did a lot of good work on TV off PPV when I couldn’t buy PPV. So seeing AJ, Joe, etc giving us free bangers was a treat for me every Thursday
Private Equity. Thats the answer. Thats the only answer. It's sadly also THE SINGLE MOST COMMON ANSWER FOR ALL GREAT PRODUCTS THAT BEGIN TO SUCK... Hedge funds are evil. It's literally in the name. They play both sides for a profit and the product is ALWAYS the cost of doing that 'business'.
Luke's become my authority on TNA. So much so that, when I watched Cultaholic's documentary on TNA, I wondered why they didn't give the assignment to Luke.
Vince Russo, among many other things, does not understand how to build up to a PPV. Ultimately though, everything comes down to Dixie. She gave the reigns over to Hulk and Eric, she kept bringing Russo back, she let AJ leave, she messed up the SpikeTV deal by being underhand about rehiring Russo.
I loved some TNA before around 2007 and was becoming more of a fan. Doxie came and kinda kept it same but in time it slowly got bad by 2011 i gave up the matches and gimmicks was going down hill... for me. I came back for matt hardys broken gimmick though that was to damn good to ignore
The top 5 people most responsible for TNA's dramatic downfall: 1. Dixie Carter 2. Vince Russo 3. Hulk Hogan & Eric Bischoff 4. Jeff Jarrett 5. Mick Foley
That Taylor Wilde story you used to talk about the Hogan era (post 2010) overspending, causing wresters to take part time jobs and her being spotted working in a sunglasses Hut when she was the knockouts champion.. That was 2008. Hogan/Bischoff were nowhere to be seen at that time. you took a story from one time period, and used it to sensationalise another.. 10/10 no notes
I remember the Kurt and Karen divorce angle with Samoa Joe feud in the back drop,it felt even then to an 11 year old boy like me that it was too fast paced a storyline 😅
In fairness, as much as Desmond Wolfe was probably a good ring technician I still have always had Jeff Hardy as mostly my favourite wrestler. And RVD/Anderson were decent then. Maybe Flair wasn't needed as much. But, those other criticisms during the Hogan/Bischoff era were clearly issues. Problem is Alvarez said it best, never learned & were just doing the dumbest things with celebrities & sounds as poorly managed as WCW was with Russo.. No wonder.. 😅🤦♂️
Well, he definitely nailed the 4 major culprits. I think if you gotta order them, it goes as follows... 1a/1b.)Bischoff & Hogan: Tweede Dumb and Tweedle Dipshit here loterally put a bullet in everything that had made TNA popular and unique until that point and shoved nursing home buddies down the viewers throat until they turned it off. 2.) Dixie: She was the dumb money who listened to the triumverate of suck that was Russo, Hogan, and Bischoff. She wasn't smart enough to know who not to listen to and killed her own Golden Goose. 3.) Russo: Despite Russo's car crash writing and garbage stories he also helped produce what was the Glory Years of TNA. While I'd never let him near any other wrestling program as long as he lives, he did less damage than the 3 people ahead of him. 4.) Jeff Jarrett: Double J deserves some blame, he deserves far less than everyone else on this list. He'll always have a blind spot for Russo, and he let the wolves in the hen house with Bischoff and Hogan. Banging your top talent's estranged wife and being sent home at a critical point in the company's transitional period sure wasn't smart. That all being said, there would be no TNA without Double J. His old school teachings paired with his eye for the future and change is top notch in the business. His ability to figure out what would set their company apart and highlight those positives was unparalleled in the 2000s.
It’s amazing it’s survived two vince Russo eras and having hulk and Eric making decisions
FACTS.
Eric didn’t make any decisions in TNA, Eric eve said TNA didn’t even want him there but Hogan wanted him.
It didn't survive. Whatever Impact Wrestling is now, is basically a new company.
Vince Russo oversaw yearly growth in TNA and they were at their viewership peak when he was writing, so why would he even be in the conversation? 2011 was their highest-watched year and then as soon as he left they declined year after year.
@@TheNextStep851 Exactly
Undisputably, it's not Scott D'Amore, he's the key reason TNA got through the pandemic era, to today
100%!
He made sure the company would survive!
TNA is that one promotion that has nine lives. Almost incredible how it evolved to stick around
And it beats AEW every week lol That show is crap
Loved TNA in 2005 to 2009, and 2012 to 2013, The current product is pretty good
Same with me😊💯❤️
I love the current product. 😊
The SpikeTV golden years. I think theres been a new golden era since the Final Deletion. The pandemic hurt them though
The current product is very good I agree. A lot has gone into it over the yrs. Many steps have been taken. If they can keep progressing, who knows. I'm excited for TNA, especially next yr.
Footnote: Mickie James also made a royal rumble appearance as the Impact Knockouts Champion a year before Jordynne Grace.
What's a Knockout, pal? She was Impact Women's Champion, damn it!!
@jaibhavsar1 (Edit: I didn't catch your references the first time I read your reply, so apologies)I'm not sure if you are joking or if perhaps in your country of origin that is what it is called but in the US one of the company's quirks is that it's women's division was renamed the Knockouts around the same time as WWE changed their female division's name to Divas. TNA has kept the name as they were always taking it's women's division seriously and with respect for the most part.
Wwe called Mickie the women's champ not knockouts champ. Also, vince reportedly didn't know Mickie was the champ when they asked her to be in the rumble.
@@muhammadHassan-kj1jy doesn't matter what Vince said that it was called and it 100% is on brand that he was unaware she was champ in another company
@@AndrewDaughtry The point I was tryna make was that WWE and Vince weren't trying to establish a relationship with TNA at this time. They asked Mickie cos she is a legend not cos she was TNA champ
The fact that Vince Russo was considered important to creative is way beyond my understanding.
Well TNA was getting their best ratings under Russo
@@NuMetalfan1996 People think because they personally didn't like his creative, it's suddenly a fact that he destroyed the comapny. As long as he's getting the viewership up (which he was) then he can be considered important to creative.
It's wild, his run at the beginning during the weekly PPV's was so bad. The idea of bringing him back, especially when doing so could kill the tv deal, was ridiculous, but Jeff Jarrett needed to be champion so he wanted Russo in
@@hitmonkey3602 He had nothing to do with killing the tv deal. That was debunked years ago by numerous sources.
Why would the tv network be unhappy that the show's most successful writer was back working there? Higher ratings = more money in ad revenue for them.
What annoys me is how many people Dixie let take advantage of her, She genuinely was a fan who wanted the best for the company. Towards the end she was funding the company with her own money.
A money mark. It’s the wrestling business
I disagree that she wanted the best for the company. To her, it had become a vanity project that was all about putting her on international television and having people say how attractive she was. The beginning of the Claire Lynch storyline is perhaps the most obvious example of this.
I know, but the problem is Dixie was unfit to run the company, much like Tony Khan with AEW,
@@NuMetalfan1996 yeah you make it about AEW. No one mentioned it until you but you go out there show everyone how stupid you are.
Dude. HE JUST SIGNED A 5 YEAR 900 MILLION DOLLAR TV DEAL! Shut up about him not knowing how to run a wrestling company!
@@robstuart8474Vince did it so what
The revolving door of Jarrett, Russo, and Bischoff is a who’s who of creative guys who undoubtedly need someone above them that can filter out their worst plans and run with the best ones if they are going to work, and Dixie Carter was just not in any way that person.
Bravo shutting down in UK. Losing the SpikeTV deal. Completely dire storylines. Pope v Wolfe for 65 Million Years straight.
The fact they lost the Spike deal due to Russo emailing Mike Johnston instead of Mike Tenay has always made me chuckle, thanks OSW
@@diabeticman2194 Watch the video - that happened, but it's not what killed the TNA deal.
Vince Russo really IS just middle-class suburbanite Vince McMahon, isn't he?
Luke you handsome and knowledgeable fool! TNA is still in business!
Dixie Carter did not know what she was doing. She learned none of the lessons from WCW’s downfall.
And what was WCW”s downfall?, the downfall was giving the talents creative control, and terrible booking in 1999 and 2000.
That was killed WCW, nothing else.
@@NuMetalfan1996what killed wcw was nwo 2000 and the fingerpoint of doom
@@Gazowen-qz5xy nah What killed WCW was their parent company did not want wrestling on their channels at the time so they decided to write it as a tax payoff. Which Vince saw the opportunity to buy it.
@thatlat5831 maybe but the nwo reform didn't help
Surprised that they didn't mention Jim Cornette's involvement with the company. Considering that he sent that one email where he stated he would "piss on Russo's grave, even he has to be wheeled there by his girlfriend"
Could you do one about Lucha underground
I love how this is the second time Russo could be shouldered with the downfall of a company but just barely wriggles out of 100% culpability.
Awesome video guys! My knowledge of TNA is threadbare, so this was a cool little look into their history.
According to how online fans are toxic, tribalists and generally stupid, I am already envisioning a "Who really killed AEW?" with AEW surviving easily the next 50 years
It would be a good video ahaha
I’ll push back on one thing: most people who watch tna watch their shows on tna+.
TNA is far cheaper to follow than AEW. While it certainly doesn’t have the roster AEW has, I would argue they use their talent better.
I subscribed during slammiversary with that promo code and I agree it’s cheaper to follow for sure and much like nxt which also follow big time, all of the talent have a chance for time in the ring or a promo.
I strongly dislike Russo but it shocks me he was the lead creative mind during that great two month run before Hogan/Bischoff. It almost upsets me he was in charge of arguably my fav TNA run lolol
Really great work. An excellent historical summary. A+
It'll be always be Dixie. Russo is an absolute turd with the worst ideas ever but the fact he wasn't only hired but REHIRED will forever baffle me. Hogan, Bischoff and friends were a cancer but again only allowed to take root because of Dixie.
Great fn video Luke. These historical pieces on wrestling and on the entertainment channel are things that should live on the internet forever. True passion projects that connect to those of us who also lived through these things.
Hearing how Dixie Carter and Jeff Jarrett wouldn’t let others move the company away from their ideas explains why Paul Heyman told Ariel Helwani “TNA isn’t ready” for him to take over creative. He outlined amazing ideas, but said that TNA wasn’t ready for someone like him - turns out they couldn’t bring themselves to hand over the car keys to someone who actually knew how to drive.
D'Amore deserves his flowers, that guy is truly the TNA/impact saviour and should have been a lifer.
I hope we get more of these , for a weekend video these have been a great edition with no news an all.
One of my favourite lol TNA stories was coming up to Spike and TNA’s TV rights renewal Spike had originally stated they did not want Vince Russo booking TNA. Of course they didn’t adhere to this demand, but Spike did not know of this (even if the fans could tell by the booking). Spike found out because of a Mike Johnston report because Russo emailed Johnston instead of Mike Tenay. Once Spike heard this, they decided not to renew the TV deal and thus TNA’s TV deal struggles began
This is the most minor of minor points, but I just wanted to say how much I appreciated the reference to Hamada when discussion of the Knockouts came up. I had been following her career since ARSION, so I was thrilled when she joined the roster in 2009 (and subsequently furious about the ludicrous title stripping which led to her being sidelined & eventually leaving after barely a year). Of all the victims of the Hogan-Bischoff era, she was the one that infuriated me the most.
I'd always held out hope she'd make a special appearance on NXT or AEW, even if it's just to put over a champion, but thus far that hasn't happened. As she's a 26-year veteran, I'm hoping that happens sooner rather than later...
That mustache... Luke is definitely planning to betray Neo and Trinity to Agent Smith.
I like to imagine they've been wanting to make this video for years, but TNA's refusal to die has stopped them from doing so, so they decided "Sod it" and made it while the company was still active.
Great video. I really enjoyed this trip down memory lane.
It's nice to see TNA getting talked about on a big wrestling youtube channel, considering it gets brushed under the carpet by everyone else
Nobody killed TNA. It's still around. Maybe this should be titled "Who Almost Killed TNA?"
I think what they meant is being the number 2 company, what knocked them off the number 2 spot
It should have been called "The Rise and Fall of TNA".
It's actually really simple. The highest PPV buy rate was Joe/Angle the first ever match at 60k. How? TNA never reached the heights that should have because the never could figure out how to properly promote PPV's TNA was getting 1 million to 2 million viewers at their peak on Spike TV, and they could only convert at the most 6 percent? Thats a huge problem.
They say Russo didn't have anything with the deal failing, but I'd argue that if he wasn't ever involved TNA would have been worth what Dixie tried to get ($24m). So not directly, no, but totally a reason they weren't that valued.
Also it's easier to make a deal with a company you didn't lie to. (Russo not being part of TNA anymore)
Ric Flair calling Desmond “The Lex Luger of the Four Horsemen” was a savage burial.
Hiring the people from the WCW was a mistake I agree Russo was the mistake I'm shocked TNA survived after him
Russo was there from 2006 to 2011 and their viewership was going up every year. Their peak was in 2011 (Russo's final year). They went into decline when Prichard replaced him.
@@TheNextStep851 ratings went up and ppvs went down, i'd say the ratings were more important to keep spike happy.
I don't think all the blame goes to her but Dixie had no business running that company or especially being in front of camera. She knew nothing of the business and made decisions that greatly impacted the company in a negative way. She's one of the main reasons I'm surprised the company didn't die before now and it's a miracle the current regime and the regime under Scott D'Amore were able to pull it back to being a respectable promotion.
Incredible video. Hogan and Bischoff's run is surreal now that you laid it all out. Took over after two all time great PPVs and spit in the faces of fans from day one. Hired both of their kids with big pushes. Made so many important TNA wrestlers lose hope.
Very good video Luke! Like you and I am TNA mark from the earlier days and having this breakdown really reminded me how it survived all the things that would have killed a normal company.
I’m sorry but how could Jeff Jarrett, who saw what Vince Russo did to WCW, and say: “yeah we need to bring him into TNA”.
Letting Scott D'Amore go was a mistake. Yeah it's a bit better today, but I believe it would be much better if they kept him around and hired a wrestling veteran who didn't have a bloated head on his/her shoulders!
To quote Jay Hunter from OSW Review:
"AND LIVED!!!"
For the longest time I have blamed Hogan/Bischoff for destroying TNA. They ruined everything that made it different, buried home grown talent in favor of hogans friends. But...yeah. the bill stops with Dixie. Its her.
Really have loved this series of videos (WCW & ECW). Luke's wrestling knowledge is showcased brilliantly here. Would love to see him cover individual careers in a similar vein too this! Great stuff!
Scott D'Amore, Dutch Mantell, Jim Cornette, Jeremy Borash. Looking back on it, those were the creatives behind the stuff I remember as what got me watching during the SpikeTV era. There were some highlights, but Hogan/Biscoff was what ran me off after the loss of the 6 sided ring. I didnt know anything about behind the scenes, i wasnt smart, while I enjoyed stuff like Curry Man and Sharkboy or the Woo off, but that couldn't keep me. I didnt make it through 2011.
I didnt really know why until I came back after the Final Deletion and started learning about everything. The LU cross over and merger, Rosemary, 2017 got me back into TNA and Ive tried to hype them up to people and talked about the distinct and exceptional eras and runs theyve had. OvE vs Lucha Bros, the whole Rosemary and Bunny Saga, rise of Brian Cage, Johnny Impact. The pandemic and AEW talent raid hurt them. Theyve been rebuilding with star making like Speedball and Jordynne Grace. Joe Hendry is their latest success of masterful booking. I want TNA to get to where theyre a full power promotion again and not be a WWE feeder system though the NXT stuff has been good. TNA needs eyeballs and needs a more accessible channel than AXS. I still think that if the same product was on a bigger network, it would rival AEW.
TNA will outlast all of us, and Russo will still be complaining that people just 'didn't see his vision'.
Hardcore fans doesn’t equate to momentum, or money.
As someone who watches TNA weekly (while im at work, I'm a bartender) its really boring. Like for some reason they're simply not gonna pull the trigger on Joe Hendry. Seriously NXT treats Joe Hendry better than TNA, he's always in a damn 6 man tag match against Moose's team. I think they're pushing Santana, but its weird seeing him by himself. Matt Cordona pops up sometimes. Curt Hawkins is still in a tag team within a faction, and i honestly don't know much of the wrestlers on the roster. Its clear once WWE gets Jordynn Grace and Joe Hendry, they're gonna kick TNA to the curb, and TNA is gonna go back to like 60k views a week or something
Even as an 8 year old, i knew TNA goin to Monday night was so dumb. But i rm that first episode and i rm jumping to see Bret Hart on Raw, it was the closest it got for me to experience the WCW/WWF rivalry, but literally after that, i would just watch Raw and watch TNA the day after bc i had it recorded
Name me a more iconic duo than Vince Russo and toilets, I'll wait
They'll never escape LOLTNA though.
The answer like a heel cutting a promo is "YOU PEOPLE"
Another great video essay!!!!
Once again, WrestleTalk puts out a masterpiece. This was fantastic! You guys keep killing it, and I can't wait for the next one!
Always love these videos ❤ thank you for the work
Love these videos and this was a good one 🙂
Big thanks to Luke and the rest of the team, you're all amazing 🙂
I honestly think that nick aldis beating Mr.TNA himself AJ Styles in the most overbooked garbage way possible is when the downfall truly started
I've long thought Dixie was the main reason TNA fell as far as it did. There never seemed to be much she did that benefitted the company or its standing, and it always seemed to be in a slow descent. I was completely convinced when she let AJ Styles leave, and the manner in which he left has never felt right to me. I would love to see him have one last run in TNA just to right that sour ending.
I love TNA I still watch it to this day it brought me back to wrestling after falling out of love with WWE that's where I first saw him.... The Phenomenal 1
38:00 is somehow the most TNA thing ever.
Who killed TNA? Oh, let’s say… Moe.
Dude... you left out the greatest TNA star of all time....... Ron Killings AKA R-Truth!!!!!!!
DIXIE CARTER
No one else, it was 100% DIXIE’s fault
I remember in 2004-2005 emailing Foxtel, Australia's 'cable' TV provider and asking them to get TNA. I would have been fifteen. I was such a massive fan then
I will go to my grave convinced Scott D'Amore left, or was fired because he was told they were putting together their working arrangement with WWE. He, like me, I think felt this was the new way to takeover TNA and kill it like they did with WCW. At that time, that working arraignment could have prevented AEW for getting off the ground or WWE tying up talent at TNA's expense as their new "developmental company". Scott D'Amore likely saw this as a piss-poor way to repay his efforts to keep TNA the anti-WWE.
None of this happened over night, and Scott D'Amore's efforts to buy TNA was to stop this "partnership" from ruining everything he did to bring them back from the brink. He should have been allowed to take the company into the future. He earned that. But to be pushed aside to allow an untrusted group to come in and likely force their influence over his successes was too much for him to take. He either threatened to quit if it happened, or made such a stink they fired him.
When Russo, hogan, and Bischoff got there, I knew it was over. They even survived Jeff Jarrett giving himself his own company's belt early on.
Still, TNA gave me Monty Brown, AJ styles, beer money, MCMG, the best American female division with phenomenal (pun intended) women from Gail Kim, Awesome Kong, and so many more.
I stopped watching TNA the day Sting got let go and when they rebranded themselves as “Impact Wrestling”. I still shake my head to this day as to why they would choose to hire Vince, Russo, Eric Bischoff, or even Hulk Hogan for that matter to give their company a boost and I also blame Dixie Carter for her decisions behind the scenes as well as well as her involvement at the time (even though I smiled when I saw Bully Ray put her through a table back in 2014)
2000s TNA is the reason I came back to wrestling, watching on Bravo was a highlight of my week!
Sadly, it all comes down to Dixie Carter. She had the greatest influence on the trajectory of TNA. She didn't know the history of the industry and kept empowering people to make poor decisions for the company with no financial fall back on them for their failures. I followed the product from 2004 to early 2015. Changing away from the 6-sided ring cost the company a lot of their identity, as they suddenly looked like every other promotion. As much as I want to hate on her time in TNA, she was also one of the creative forces that helped to shape the identity of the company in the early years; most notably in how the show looked. I have read articles from years ago about how she would spend her own money in order to help build risers for the fans and actually would paint the set herself in order to cut costs so talent could be paid in the early days. That does not excuse the costs that went out during the Hogan/Bischoff Era though. The high dollar contracts undeniably hurt the product and ultimately cost the company dearly.
I’ve always rooted for TNA. I remember being board with WWE in 2011 pre Pipe-bomb (not as good as Steiner math) and TNA was the first not WWE wrestling I found. And that’s how I learned I loved wrestling. Because it was still a car crash but the characters were more creative and did a lot of good work on TV off PPV when I couldn’t buy PPV. So seeing AJ, Joe, etc giving us free bangers was a treat for me every Thursday
Here's my take, the factors that made TNA become what it was between 2010-2018, were Dixie, Eric B, and Hogan.
I’m so excited to watch this. More like this please
Nah Booking Okada as Okato is actually hilarious
FACTS😂.
I wanted someone to make this for WAY TOO LONG!
I stopped watching TNA for the most part when Hogan and Biscoff showed up. Still loved the Rosemary stuff and the Broken universe stuff.
Private Equity. Thats the answer. Thats the only answer. It's sadly also THE SINGLE MOST COMMON ANSWER FOR ALL GREAT PRODUCTS THAT BEGIN TO SUCK... Hedge funds are evil. It's literally in the name. They play both sides for a profit and the product is ALWAYS the cost of doing that 'business'.
If in doubt, blame Dixie Carter 😅
I love Luke, that said, with the angle of the camera and the lighting..it looks like he has a uni-brow when hes talking.
I haven't been able to watch TNA since it's been on Axis TV. None of the cable providers in my area even have it as an option
Luke's become my authority on TNA. So much so that, when I watched Cultaholic's documentary on TNA, I wondered why they didn't give the assignment to Luke.
Vince Russo, among many other things, does not understand how to build up to a PPV. Ultimately though, everything comes down to Dixie. She gave the reigns over to Hulk and Eric, she kept bringing Russo back, she let AJ leave, she messed up the SpikeTV deal by being underhand about rehiring Russo.
The moustache is looking great Luke.
I loved some TNA before around 2007 and was becoming more of a fan. Doxie came and kinda kept it same but in time it slowly got bad by 2011 i gave up the matches and gimmicks was going down hill... for me. I came back for matt hardys broken gimmick though that was to damn good to ignore
Nothing can kill TNA.
Just like nothing can kill the Grimace.
One of the best videos you have made
The top 5 people most responsible for TNA's dramatic downfall:
1. Dixie Carter
2. Vince Russo
3. Hulk Hogan & Eric Bischoff
4. Jeff Jarrett
5. Mick Foley
Excellent video
this video was really well made!
That Taylor Wilde story you used to talk about the Hogan era (post 2010) overspending, causing wresters to take part time jobs and her being spotted working in a sunglasses Hut when she was the knockouts champion.. That was 2008. Hogan/Bischoff were nowhere to be seen at that time. you took a story from one time period, and used it to sensationalise another.. 10/10 no notes
I remember the Kurt and Karen divorce angle with Samoa Joe feud in the back drop,it felt even then to an 11 year old boy like me that it was too fast paced a storyline 😅
It's definitely Dixie she kept bringing back Russo and killed the TV deal not knowing how to negotiate
I remember when growing up, My Dad always referred to TNA as "Has-beens and Wannabes"
During is glory years many people referred to TNA as "WWE rejects" or "WWE landfill".
Now that's AEW's role.
Excellent video!!
Make a video on the aces and eights that was a key memory I have off tna/impact
YES, finally the video I've been secertly waiting for.
1.Dixie 2.Hogan & Bischoff 3.Russo
In fairness, as much as Desmond Wolfe was probably a good ring technician I still have always had Jeff Hardy as mostly my favourite wrestler. And RVD/Anderson were decent then. Maybe Flair wasn't needed as much. But, those other criticisms during the Hogan/Bischoff era were clearly issues. Problem is Alvarez said it best, never learned & were just doing the dumbest things with celebrities & sounds as poorly managed as WCW was with Russo.. No wonder.. 😅🤦♂️
I would love to know who booked Hogan leaving with Dixie Carter humiliating herself and the company like that. WTF were they thinking?
Well, he definitely nailed the 4 major culprits. I think if you gotta order them, it goes as follows...
1a/1b.)Bischoff & Hogan: Tweede Dumb and Tweedle Dipshit here loterally put a bullet in everything that had made TNA popular and unique until that point and shoved nursing home buddies down the viewers throat until they turned it off.
2.) Dixie: She was the dumb money who listened to the triumverate of suck that was Russo, Hogan, and Bischoff. She wasn't smart enough to know who not to listen to and killed her own Golden Goose.
3.) Russo: Despite Russo's car crash writing and garbage stories he also helped produce what was the Glory Years of TNA. While I'd never let him near any other wrestling program as long as he lives, he did less damage than the 3 people ahead of him.
4.) Jeff Jarrett: Double J deserves some blame, he deserves far less than everyone else on this list. He'll always have a blind spot for Russo, and he let the wolves in the hen house with Bischoff and Hogan. Banging your top talent's estranged wife and being sent home at a critical point in the company's transitional period sure wasn't smart. That all being said, there would be no TNA without Double J. His old school teachings paired with his eye for the future and change is top notch in the business. His ability to figure out what would set their company apart and highlight those positives was unparalleled in the 2000s.
Best thing TNA Wrestling did was their Bond for Glory tournament
That 2011 victory road killed it clare lynch story many things