Thanks Dale. I was struggling with my 75 DT125. I followed this video, step by step and we have spark! Never would have considered disabling the advance. Great video
You are the man! I bought a restored 69 AT1 and I can't get it to start. There is spark and fuel is getting into the cylinder. It backfired a time or 2. I removed the carb to verify no clogged jets too. New plug and fresh nonethanol 90 octane gasoline. I guess the only thing left to check is the timing and points gap. Owners manual offers no assistance. Thank you for this video.
Great instructional video Dale. I was looking at my manual for our 1972 AT1 125, it appears that almost all these models are 1.8 or 2.0 mm prior to TDC. My boys and I will be doing this soon, however we don't have a buzz box. But I am thinking my Fluke multi meter will work fine on continuity / tone to complete the process? I was wondering what kind of spark plug adapter you have for your Dial indicator, let me know the part # when you get time. Thanks!
Hi Taylor, its great you guys are working on that project as a family. Yes, your Fluke will do just fine. My dial indicator adapter is many years old, don't even remember who makes it, Motion Pro maybe. I do remember that it was too small for my dial indicator, and I had to bore it out to fit my gauge. Think I had to drill and tap for the set screws too, I don't know, can't remember. But it fits the spark plug hole good. I struggled with a O-ring type gauge holder for years...it would move and mess up my measurement. This one works great.
analog multi-meter works good if you don't have a light/buzz box.( i made a DIy buzz box bought a 9v buzzer off fleabay and a metal altoid cough crop box for sound ,2 wires and alligator clips).
You bet, have used an old multimeter many times, I have seen plans to build one very similar to yours somewhere, it doesn't really take anything fancy, I got mine years ago and just like working with it. I see them for sale these days around 65 bucks. Wow! makes the altoid box method seem worth looking in to.
Hey David, that is its formal name. They may be called Ignition timing buzz box. You can pick them up from Speed and Sport in California. Just tell them you what a Buzz box they will know. Settings are on and off. You tube doesn't lend itself to pictures in the comments as far as I know.
Man, I can't remember, think it has a 9-volt battery. You can use a meter, but it works different, and is a challenge, it has been a long time since I used one, it's better to just use a 12-volt light bulb. I have some other videos where I made a light bulb with a wire soldered on the end and just ground to the case. It works great.
I have never heard you mention timing and modern fuels. Here in Tucson I really only have access to 91 octane ethanol fuel. Should I be retarding the timing on my vintage 2 strokes to account for this? I think the RD400 manual said 2.3 and the CS5 is 1.8. Thanks.
You are right, don't think I have ever addressed the fuel. Here in Montana, we still have non ethanol premium 91 octane fuel, so that is what I use. Guess we are a little spoiled not having to deal with ethanol. I hate to recommend timing changes because even with the non-ethanol fuel that we have, it is of course much different than it was in the 70's when lead was used to prevent detonation, and of course the entire formula is much different than 50 years ago. I have to go back to the tried-and-true method of setting timing at recommend value and performing a plug test. Then changing the timing accordingly. This is a labor and time-consuming process but the only accurate way to determine if your engine is running at its peak. I know this is not what you were hoping for, but there is no magic wand or formula to replace the good ole plug test that I am aware of.
@ No worries. I have 87 octane non ethanol here but it is 45 minutes away. I have been experimenting with removing ethanol as that is a pretty straight forward process. That has been fairly successful and we also have AV gas. It is one of those topics that doesn’t get discussed much and the information seems to be all over the place like the Yamalube 2R the powersports dealer sold me because it was the best 2 stroke oil despite me telling them it was for an RD60, RD400, CS5 and T250 - all with the injector pumps installed. It doesn’t say anywhere that 2R is premix only, but I have a suspicion it is. As far as the timing on the CS, the manual says 1.8 and I timed to 1.75 which was about as close as I could get on that particular morning. She seems to be running alright. Hopefully the 2R didn’t do any damage because these pistons are nearly impossible to find. Thanks again for all the information. Do you have a patreon or anything?
I am not familiar with the 2R oil, I use the 2S and I use it in injector and premix applications with no problems. I assume maybe that 2R is a racing oil, is that right? I'm still old school and continue to use Castor bean oil for my premix racing applications, can't give up what works. No, I don't use any of that patreon stuff.
@ After some research, my understanding is the 2S is a replacement for 2 older 2 stroke oils and is injector compatible. The 2R is a full synthetic oil for higher performance (compression) “race” bikes and designed to be pre mixed 50:1. My initial thinking was if it was that good of an oil, it was only slightly more per quart and seeing as you can go like 500 miles on a quart, what’s the harm? As an added bonus it is supposed to be really low fouling. When I bench tested my pump it was in spec for volume after 100 strokes per cylinder at idle and WOT and thought everything was good to go. I looked at it a bit more critically and realized there is a slight difference in viscosity and stiction. My theory, and it’s just that is with the way this pump operates, it should have no issues with pumping, but because of the way it draws in fluid through a metered hole when it retracts it might not be able to bring in the fluid fast enough. It looked fine on the bench, but I was not rotating the pump as fast as the engine will be at 8,500 rpm. I considered setting up a stepper motor and repeating the test but decided that the 2S is likely superior to 50 years ago an oil and I would leave well enough alone. Everyone’s mileage may vary, but that has been my result. Thanks as always Dale.
Hi Robert, I do take on some side work, mostly in the winter, Im in Montana so Im enjoying being outdoors now, winters are more for indoor work and side jobs. What are you needing done? You can contact me at dsweger@bresnan.net
I'm not sure I have ever heard that...is that true? It has a new one on it, well maybe 4 years old, but only less than 100 miles ago. They say the worst thing for electrical components is setting unused....
Thanks Dale. I was struggling with my 75 DT125. I followed this video, step by step and we have spark! Never would have considered disabling the advance. Great video
Glad it was some help Tom, I appreciate you watching.
Best video and explaination of how to set points timing…thks!
Thanks Phil, that means a lot to me. Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
Just restored a 1974 DT125 I bought in a box. This video made it happen......Running now! Thanks a bunch!
Hey Ronda, glad to hear it. Its always nice to know these videos have helped someone.
You are the man! I bought a restored 69 AT1 and I can't get it to start. There is spark and fuel is getting into the cylinder. It backfired a time or 2. I removed the carb to verify no clogged jets too. New plug and fresh nonethanol 90 octane gasoline. I guess the only thing left to check is the timing and points gap. Owners manual offers no assistance. Thank you for this video.
Thank you, it does sound like timing to me. Best of luck!
Great tutorial Dale. That's a very sweet running bike, starts readily on the dynastarter.
Best wishes, Dean.
They are really nice bikes, not big on performance but great for what they were designed for.
amazing engineering for the days so much that could move or break but seldom ever does.
Yes they are reliable for the most part, made better then than now....all that plastic now.
great job dale sounds sweet
Thanks Mark, they are sweet running machines.
Thanks Dale, great info!
Thanks Jeff, trying to keep it real. And real useful.
nice info and vid.
Thank you very much and thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
Great instructional video Dale. I was looking at my manual for our 1972 AT1 125, it appears that almost all these models are 1.8 or 2.0 mm prior to TDC. My boys and I will be doing this soon, however we don't have a buzz box. But I am thinking my Fluke multi meter will work fine on continuity / tone to complete the process? I was wondering what kind of spark plug adapter you have for your Dial indicator, let me know the part # when you get time. Thanks!
Hi Taylor, its great you guys are working on that project as a family. Yes, your Fluke will do just fine. My dial indicator adapter is many years old, don't even remember who makes it, Motion Pro maybe. I do remember that it was too small for my dial indicator, and I had to bore it out to fit my gauge. Think I had to drill and tap for the set screws too, I don't know, can't remember. But it fits the spark plug hole good. I struggled with a O-ring type gauge holder for years...it would move and mess up my measurement. This one works great.
analog multi-meter works good if you don't have a light/buzz box.( i made a DIy buzz box bought a 9v buzzer off fleabay and a metal altoid cough crop box for sound ,2 wires and alligator clips).
You bet, have used an old multimeter many times, I have seen plans to build one very similar to yours somewhere, it doesn't really take anything fancy, I got mine years ago and just like working with it. I see them for sale these days around 65 bucks. Wow! makes the altoid box method seem worth looking in to.
Question, what is the formal name for the buzz box, and what brand and settings do you use ? A pic would be great f you possibly could please?!
Hey David, that is its formal name. They may be called Ignition timing buzz box. You can pick them up from Speed and Sport in California. Just tell them you what a Buzz box they will know. Settings are on and off. You tube doesn't lend itself to pictures in the comments as far as I know.
Thank you!
What voltage is the buzz box? 12 volts? If so, can I use a meter instead? (set the dial to DC volts)?
Man, I can't remember, think it has a 9-volt battery. You can use a meter, but it works different, and is a challenge, it has been a long time since I used one, it's better to just use a 12-volt light bulb. I have some other videos where I made a light bulb with a wire soldered on the end and just ground to the case. It works great.
do you know if this procedure applies for a Yamaha 125 1976 DT ?
I have not done any work on the DT series, but I believe they are the same.
I have never heard you mention timing and modern fuels. Here in Tucson I really only have access to 91 octane ethanol fuel. Should I be retarding the timing on my vintage 2 strokes to account for this? I think the RD400 manual said 2.3 and the CS5 is 1.8. Thanks.
You are right, don't think I have ever addressed the fuel. Here in Montana, we still have non ethanol premium 91 octane fuel, so that is what I use. Guess we are a little spoiled not having to deal with ethanol. I hate to recommend timing changes because even with the non-ethanol fuel that we have, it is of course much different than it was in the 70's when lead was used to prevent detonation, and of course the entire formula is much different than 50 years ago. I have to go back to the tried-and-true method of setting timing at recommend value and performing a plug test. Then changing the timing accordingly. This is a labor and time-consuming process but the only accurate way to determine if your engine is running at its peak. I know this is not what you were hoping for, but there is no magic wand or formula to replace the good ole plug test that I am aware of.
@ No worries. I have 87 octane non ethanol here but it is 45 minutes away. I have been experimenting with removing ethanol as that is a pretty straight forward process. That has been fairly successful and we also have AV gas. It is one of those topics that doesn’t get discussed much and the information seems to be all over the place like the Yamalube 2R the powersports dealer sold me because it was the best 2 stroke oil despite me telling them it was for an RD60, RD400, CS5 and T250 - all with the injector pumps installed. It doesn’t say anywhere that 2R is premix only, but I have a suspicion it is. As far as the timing on the CS, the manual says 1.8 and I timed to 1.75 which was about as close as I could get on that particular morning. She seems to be running alright. Hopefully the 2R didn’t do any damage because these pistons are nearly impossible to find. Thanks again for all the information. Do you have a patreon or anything?
I am not familiar with the 2R oil, I use the 2S and I use it in injector and premix applications with no problems. I assume maybe that 2R is a racing oil, is that right? I'm still old school and continue to use Castor bean oil for my premix racing applications, can't give up what works. No, I don't use any of that patreon stuff.
@ After some research, my understanding is the 2S is a replacement for 2 older 2 stroke oils and is injector compatible. The 2R is a full synthetic oil for higher performance (compression) “race” bikes and designed to be pre mixed 50:1. My initial thinking was if it was that good of an oil, it was only slightly more per quart and seeing as you can go like 500 miles on a quart, what’s the harm? As an added bonus it is supposed to be really low fouling. When I bench tested my pump it was in spec for volume after 100 strokes per cylinder at idle and WOT and thought everything was good to go. I looked at it a bit more critically and realized there is a slight difference in viscosity and stiction. My theory, and it’s just that is with the way this pump operates, it should have no issues with pumping, but because of the way it draws in fluid through a metered hole when it retracts it might not be able to bring in the fluid fast enough. It looked fine on the bench, but I was not rotating the pump as fast as the engine will be at 8,500 rpm. I considered setting up a stepper motor and repeating the test but decided that the 2S is likely superior to 50 years ago an oil and I would leave well enough alone. Everyone’s mileage may vary, but that has been my result. Thanks as always Dale.
👌👍
Thanks buddy, appreciate you hanging out with me in the shop!
Hello, I’m wondering if you could help me out. I have one of these. I’m not sure what I’m doing.
Sure thing, send me an email and we can discuss your issue. dsweger@bresnan.net
just noticed the cool twist off fuel petcock.
Yeah try to find one of those little cups...near impossible. If water sets in them long it eats right through the aluminum.
Dale are you in the States?
Do you do paid work, like on a Suzuki Ts400?
Hi Robert, I do take on some side work, mostly in the winter, Im in Montana so Im enjoying being outdoors now, winters are more for indoor work and side jobs. What are you needing done? You can contact me at dsweger@bresnan.net
points spitting sparks is that a weak condenser?
I'm not sure I have ever heard that...is that true? It has a new one on it, well maybe 4 years old, but only less than 100 miles ago. They say the worst thing for electrical components is setting unused....
@@montana2strokeracer think i got the condenser sparking issue from Kevin.
if i remember his thinking the condenser is designed to keep the electricity under control so as not to fry the points
Sparky points usually is a weak condensor.
@@frankdillon6127 Yes you are correct.
what can i say! 3:02AM Sunday! my favorite subject electric black magic!
Ok Frank, glad to see you have arrived.
I had two Yamaha Enduros, I never knew any of them had electric start.
Yes, only the AT1, AT2, and AT3 models, they were the 125cc models.
0830, Sunday, London time. Second!
Wow, doing good Dean, way ahead of Frank.
First
Top of the heap again, way to go Cain.