Second hand models better than today's faulty offerings? Princess and Merchant Navy Classes
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- Welcome to this double service video featuring these lovely locomotives from years gone by.
Like me many are fed up with paying huge prices for new locomotives only to find they have multiple faults or fall apart, its heart breaking and due to silly limited edition runs, sending back the loco means no replacement.
All is not lost however, if you look to the golden period of ‘new’ Hornby that being 2000 to 2007 the locomotives from those days, even all these years later are built with superior attention to quality and performance.
But they might just need a good service to get them back to full power.
NB it seems that R3617 the Merchant Navy may well be a 2018 not 2007 release, it was listed as 2007 and priced accordingly, Seems I got much more of a bargain then????
Music:
Music, Magic Scout, Cottages Creative Commons Attribution licence (reuse allowed)
Kevin MacLeod
"Northern Glade" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
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Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International license.
Jacques Lochet violin and synthesizer, Wikimedia Commons
#modelrailways #modelrailroad #modeltrains
WOW I am so pleased with the success of this video, in it's short life it's had more views than 90% of my other videos, thank you so much. Please do check out my other films.
And why not Mike I expect , a lot got great tips from a excellent video.
Love this to bits.
This is engineering.
Should be taught in every high school in the UK.
Wonderful stuff.
Hi Billy, very kind of you, take care
i know this video isn't about particular manufacturers but i'd like to say that for years I was a Lima fan but...then, by mistake, I bought what must be quite an old Backhmann and wow, it was so smooth and quiet by comparison, I never realised that model locos could be that good.
Hi, I'm still a big Lima fan and have a service guide that will get them running nearly as smooth as a Bachmann
What can i say ? Nothing more than that in my opinion yourself and Barry produce the most informative, relaxing and honest videos on 2 rail 00 gauge on youtube . I also like your choices of background music . It adds to the overall atmosphere . I always look forward to them so cheers again !
Hi David, I am so grateful for this comment, a large effort goes into every film I make so it's great to read you enjoy it.
That slow running Merchant Navy on it's back. What a beautiful motion.
Hi John, yes agree fully
Agree with both Barrie and yourself on the benefits of selective hand purchases. I've never bought a new loco - much prefer 2nd hand, stripping down, cleaning, lubricating, extra pick ups if needed and back onto the rails. Get a sense of satisfaction rather than what appears to be the frustration of buying new and getting problems from day 1. Keep the videos coming 👍
Hi David, many thanks, I agree its so good to get them going again
I think it’s a little bit of a generalisation to say the older models are better than newer faulty models . I agree that Hornby locos from Clan Line probably to about 2012 are pretty good . You can probably relate these to Sandra Kan who made these models for Hornby . It was only when Sanda Kan imploded and Hornby had to look for other manufacturers that things really deteriorated . And you can see that today . The factories that make the current Princesses and probably the latest Unrebuilt Merchant Navies look to be very good , while the one producing the A2/2 clearly isn’t . But of course we don’t know which is which , so quality is variable . I do think we have probably peaked in quality /value for money in that 2000-2010 period , but not exclusively . There are still some good models out there eg J15, J36 , D16, B12 .
One of the major issues as well is the shade of green being used . Clearly the green on your Princess is far superior to the latest A2/2 or A2/3 but again I wonder if that’s down to individual factories interpretation and Hornby failure to ensure proper QC.
The green looks very sickly on the Thompson A2/2's.
Hi Russel, its a question not a statement, however I think for me all my newer models have had some issue or another where as the older ones seem to need a little TLC and off they go. The Models from Hornby for example were at their finest standard with regards to assembly and operation. At the end of the day the customer can't chose the factory, Hornby do that and we then suffer. Thanks for watching, always good to hear both sides
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited thanks Mike . Not a question of sides really as we all just like locos that work well. Your Princess does look good . I’ve got the BR Crimson one and my original 1971 Princess Elizabeth !
@@russellbenton2987 1971, how wonderful!
hi there,great video, yes i agree with you and Barry, new hornby locos are not what they should be due to clown activity at hornby,second hand locos i have found are better, just got hold of a Wrenn 08 diesel like new, under fifty pounds runs perfect, we need Wrenn back again,
Well said! Loved Wrenn, will you be filming your 08 in action?
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited hi will try soon, take care what you buy.
Great buys. I bought 2 Hawksworth counties and a castle from this period secondhand all quality items and perfect. My new star class came with 3 bits fallen off sent it back the replacement arrived with 1 bit fallen off which I stuck back on. It's horrible getting a faulty 🚂 loco.
Cheers Paul, it's very sad
I have a princess from around 2003 and it runs great. A little consistency when going backwards, but besides that I love it
Thanks, same year as mine then :)
I found the stiff point on one of my loco's chassis was caused by a slightly bent connecting rod, it wasn't apparent until it was in bit's. Since these models are made in China at breakneck speed with limited quality control a full strip down, inspection and rebuild usually works wonders. Thanks for the upload. Subbed.
Thank you very kindly
Hornby lubrication ! Their lubrication appears more suited to protecting their models from the salty atmosphere while bobbing around on the high seas inside an ISO container, which could be constantly exposed to the elements on the journey from Hong Kong to Thamesport (Kent) !!!
I remove all their gunge (which requires a complete strip down of the model) and replace it with Fleischmann/Mobil oil which is designed especially for model railway locomotives, so has a suitable viscosity.
Sounds like a worthwhile exercise if at bit annoying lol
The two chassis seen (Hornby Princess & Merchant Navy classes) from this era, DO have a niggly design fault. This is the method of motor mounting. The problem being that the front end of the motor was not clamped precisely in place. The black tacky stuff used, is not strong enough. As a result the front end of the motor can rise just enough to partially disengage from the primary cog, and in the process start stripping or even splitting that cog. The same also applied to the rebuilt West Country/Battle of Britain models up until around 2012/3, when a modification corrected the fault on all these chassis. As I have a number of the SR Pacifics with this fault, I found the quickest and easiest solution was to add a little packing on top of the motor to fill the tiny space between the motor and bodyshell above !!!
Hi, have to say I've never come across this issue. Surely I can't have been lucky lol. I'll have a look next time I service one. Potentially a nasty fault then.
2 lovely models, thanks for showing us.
Cheers Chris
I've got a dozen or so West Country, B of B and Merchant Navies. All run so very well, all second hand. All pre 2010 I would say, some were quite cheap, but some not so. They seem to hold their value quite well down here in Oz. Great vid Mike, picked up a few handy tips. Thanks mate.
Hi Steven, thanks very much indeed, glad to help. Yes they are lovely locos
I only buy second hand... it's the best of both worlds.. a great item at a totally reasonable price and usually run in. Some lovely locos there.. well done.
Couldn't agree more! Thanks 👍
I think the latest locos are a disgusting price, when you see the faults, they come with. I expect it is the lubricant has got a bit thick.
Thanks Duncan, not cheap for sure
Some of these manufacturers couldn't give a darn about the hobby, they're seeing where the hobbyists breaking point is and staying just shy of it.
It's disgusting for sure!
@@jimmyduncan7650 It does feel like that sometimes for sure, but check out the Hornby Merchant Navy videos on my channel, almost faultless!
Great job Mike really interesting & informative. I tend to be abit nervous of disassembling these newer Locos I'm OK with the old Ringfield, but worry about these I'll just have to grasp the nettle and have a go. Good to hear you echoing what Barrie Davis has said and good to hear that you seem to share the same views.
Many thanks Paul, yes it can be daunting, Just make sure you have good space, light and take your time. Good luck
The M N is the model, which got me re-invigorated into modelling again and I still don't have one even though they are a wonderful model.
Hi Don, quite a few good ones about
Gorgeous locos! I have been buying older older US Athearn and even Tycos, more toys than not, locomotives from the 70s refurbishing and repainting. Lots of fun trying to get the old things operation but not paying more than $30 with shipping for most part. They are no where near as nice as your older hornby’s but still enjoying the work. cheers and all the best.
Thanks very much, yeah older is better it seems
The merchant navy is definitely the 2018 issue - new style box and wires to tender which had an rrp of 169.99!
The princess looks great too although... I have recently purchased the new princess royal and it's quite something!
Hi, many thanks, Its odd, it has flanged pony wheels that swivel like the 2000-2007 models had but yes I agree it looks far newer than the given 2007. Either way it's lovely
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited the merchant navy still uses the original 2000's tooling with the swivel as opposed to the fixed design cartazzi truck that the west country and b.o.b's were fitted with upon release. 👍
Great video and good job on those locomotives. They look excellent running around the layout. Thanks for sharing. Roy.
Cheers Roy, thanks for watching
Hi again Mike i took your advice a lubricated my N15 King Arthur and run her in at 30% on my gauge master controller then up to 60% with no issues. So i decided to do the same to my Princess Royal & Elizabeth locos both are the same loco with new numbers / nameplates to produce Princess Royal....i also fitted round buffers. Many Thanks for the advice its worth cleaning the old lubrication out and hopefully keeping them in tip top running condition.
Top work Andy, should give years of good service
Little late to the party, playing catchup again - Thanks for this excellent "workbench video" - Very informative, appreciate it!
Thanks Anthony, so glad you enjoyed it
Gorgeous 🤩
Thank you! Cheers!
Hi Mike. The Merchant Navy is actually a recent item in the Hornby catalogue - it was announced for the 2018 catalogue, item # R3617. Something I had been wondering about it is what coupling it uses at the rear. I could see in photos from retailers that it carried a large tension lock with the long hook, unusual for a rebuilt MN class made in recent times. It looks like all other rebuilt MNs made after 2003-2004 (when they became DCC ready) added a NEM pocket on the tender.
However, thanks to this video, I see this R3617 uses the old Dapol-style push-fit coupling. Looking around, I now notice that the type of tender this rebuilt MN has probably simply never had its chassis upgraded - all the rebuilt MNs Hornby has made from around 2003 - onwards use a different type of tender. Strange how they've never updated the coupling fitting on this specific tender; all other "main range" models that had the Dapol push-fit coupling have long gained NEM pockets.
Hi Jon, many thanks. Very interesting you saying the Merchant Navy is a recent model, I looked on www.hornbyguide.com/ to get the dates and it came back 2007, however if you are right I got one heck of a bargain then lol This has thrown me a bit. Thanks for watching
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited that particular one that you have there is definitely the second issue of the e.d.l. from 2018. 👌
Retail was 169.99!
Brilliant video Mike, both yourself and Barrie have hit the nail on the head regarding the 2nd hand market from about 2003. I personally won’t buy another new Hornsby or Bachmann loco unless I get it from my local model shop where I can see it run first. They are producing some absolute garbage at the moment and expecting us to pay through the nose for it!
Thanks Colin, sad but true, I've not had any issues with Bachmann so far
Bang on mate utter garbage
Yes.. have just sent a note to Barrie about the rubbish coming out of China.. so far Hornby is top of the list and Hejan is now catching up!
Hi Ian, yes it's all very sad really, don't want either company to have trouble really
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited I saw the trouble you had with your Britannia class. I love the hobby only having returned to it a few years ago but I don't want to waste my money on locos that I have to rebuild straight out f the box! I have an engineering background so I don't mind tinkering with them when they are old like me! Hey .. keep up the good work I love the sound tracks. I work on the railway (SWR) and I am guessing you worked on the Southern region/NSE/SWT? Bye for now off to play trains.
@@iangasson6165 Hi Ian, many thanks indeed. Yes it is a pain, I really think we need to buy from shops that can test and examine the loco before we buy! I have half an idea that a lot of trouble comes from them being thrown around in the post! Yes I am on Southern, few more years to go lol
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited So right on your last point, I've bought many steam models in perfect condition only to receive them inadequately packed an damaged in the post.
Great video thanks for sharing
You are most welcome 🤗
Great video Mike and you are at last getting the recognition you deserve. The Hornby rebuilt Merchant Navy is IMO the best model they have ever produced and as we know it literally saved the company. I have three of the new unrebuilt Merchant Navies and they are all running well and appear to be of good quality so no complaints there, as others have noted the BR green livery on the A2/2 is absymal. Doesn't Simon Kohler or his cohorts ever look at the finished product ?! Bargains on british Ebay ? Never seen one yet ! All the best
Stewart
Hi Stewart, that is very kind of you to say and yes I really hope I have turned a corner. Yes I am afraid I have pre-ordered one of the war time black rebuild MNs Sam's trains did a review and looks like the mechanism is really good so fingers crossed. Take care. Mike
Thanks Mike. I’m an avid BD fan too. Altho I run DCC I fully understand those who don’t like it. There’s room for both systems . I’ve got lots of Hornby 4-6-2s which will have the same set up. They must be dry too. Fitting decoders is a story in itself ! My Hornby M7 is going to be cannibalised for spares as it can’t pull the skin off a rice pudding and being replaced by a Bachmann E4 tank. Really informative and more please maybe diesels ? Thanks
Hi Alan, many thanks indeed, surprised to hear about your M7 I have several and all very capable. The E4 is lovely however. Yes it's been steam all the way recently, diesels are coming soon
Alan have you seen this film I made? might be right up your street ua-cam.com/video/n87ICoyaEzY/v-deo.html @Alan Traish
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited thanks Mike very interesting . You haven’t got the Bachmann L&Y tank have you? I’ve got a problem putting the bogie/pony wheel pick ups and springs back the right way.
Thank you
Just had to watch this again Mike , there’s just something nice about seeing nice dc running and those two are beautiful. Ps I’ve not got either. Hmm methinks maybe 👌😎 fred
Glad you enjoyed it, Cheers Fred, yeah go on they are lovely :)
Very very nice think ill be looking to buy either one of these more so the merchant navy love the wheels
Hi Ashly, thanks very much, good luck
Fully agree . I only buy 2nd have ! NEVER brand new
Thanks Jason
I think that the Princess just needs a bit of a clean, oil and running in. Then she should run nice and smooth.
Thanks, did you watch to the end?
Hi, Yes I did watch it to the end. of the video. You have got yourself 2 real bargains there.
great video all my locos are secondhand mainly bachmann all ready run in ,all around 10yrs old all in mint condition the price of s/h is getting out of hand on ebay and got bitten there so i buy from rails or hampshire models also if your looking for new old stock at old prices hereford models is worth a look i got a new old stock hornby dcc ready class 73 my only new loco for £60 including post if memory serves me right keep the repair vids coming exellent
Thanks very much Keith, yes sadly the prices are going up all over
Great video - the Merchant Navy Class loco Elder Dempster Lines was introduced by Hornby in 2018 not 2007 - keep up the good work.
Hi Barry, helpful to know thanks
Nice work. Yes, I agree about the modern fixed pony trucks - they're not realistic or functional. I feel that the Hornby Merchant Navy is a more refined model than the old Wrenn one I used to own (some may not agree!).
Hi James thanks very much. I agree on the refinement but the Wrenn stuff has such character!
I can tell you the non swivelling back axel for the pony truck is at least prototypical on certain pacifics. Gresley's pacifics were fixed and had a side shifting cartazzi axle. The other companies pacifics I can't say. Hornby's newer locos do have a bit of side shift, but you'd have to have shallow curves to fit the flanged wheel for it to look correct. It looks wrong having a gap between cab and pony truck and how much it swings out on older designs. I suppose it is a design compromise. Neither system is perfect for modelling. I may have a slight preference for the newer fixed mode, but both have their faults.
Hi mike just subscribed to your channel, I think if a loco is serviced correctly then it pays dividends in the long term. I agree with you about modern Hornby steam locos having reduced quality and increased prices, these cheap 3 pole motors should never have been used, such as the P2/Duke Of Gloucester, keep up the good work!
Many thanks Andy and big welcome to the channel, hope you will find lots to watch.
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited Thanks for the reply Mike,getting a lot out of your channel!
Very interesting and useful video. The cost of new locos are getting a bit silly for the quality you get.
Yes, true! glad you found this helpful.
I only buy second hand nowadays, partly because the older models are much more robust and fairly easy to repair. Also I'm an odd-bod who works in 12mm gauge, HOm, OO12 and 5.5 mm gauge, so it's basically old second hand or nothing! Point ius, those 60 year old mechs will take the abuse I give them in a rebuild!
Agree fully with your views
Hello Mike, excellent video ,thinking of getting a N15. are they any better than the S15? had one which self destructed after a month .thought you might know as you had S15 problems as well . Keep up the good work.-Regards RICHARD.
Hi Richard, sadly no idea on the N15s :(
The long arm looks like it's assembled in reversed to me.
The long arm?
@ModelRailwaysUnlimited The longest crank rod arm if that's the right name, compared to the photo, it looks backwards to me, but I could be wrong.
@@PeckhamHall I'll have a look
What do you call the electrical leads / device that you attach to the wheels to power up while servicing ?
Hi Scott, those are Crocodile Clips, thanks for watching
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited what is powering them ?
@@scottmcneil1150 Hi Scott, a feed from my Gaugemster Model W controller.
I think it's the luck of the draw. I've bought some really good bargains second-hand on Ebay. But I've also bought some complete duds. Most I can, like you, rectify faults and improve performance. Others I've just had to put down to experience.
Very true!
Great video. Love the Merchant Navy. Wondered what make and magnification strength the headset is? Would like to get one. My eyes aren't as strong for close work these days.
Many thanks, its this one www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07T4KPYN2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Many thanks for the link.
Mike, this is the first video of yours that I've seen and it's so helpful. Keep up the good work. Can I just ask, as a matter of interest, what do use for dissolving/cleaning away old grease and oil?
Welcome David, I hope you will have a look at some of my other films. Very kind comments. I use IPA for the gears and bearings and WD40 Contact Cleaner on commutator, brushes and pick ups.
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited I will do. That's great: thanks. Must remember that for IPA you don't mean the beer :-D
Very nice job of fixing on those 2 models Mike. By the way, can you please tell me which lubricant is the best for the brass worm drive on some models which have it in their mechanisms because I do not know which 1 is the correct type. Plus, can you please provide a link to get the particular lubricant for brass worm drives.
Thanks. Labelle 106 is good for gears, it's really a case of finding who has the best deal on it. If you want an oil for almost everything else looks at Labelle 108.
Thank you for the recommendations Mike, I will take a look into both of them.
Good luck, very good safe lubes, they make a white grease as well that's Labelle 106, sorry so above you need 102 for gears and 108 for all else. 106 is great for modern diesel gears
merchant navy class are superb loco's second only to the Adams radial
Hi Paul, I must say I do love them :)
Hi Mike, Thanks for sharing your maintenance and restoration work on these locos. I love the Merchant Navy Class with these boxpok wheels. Looks robust and elegant at the same time. I admit to have mixed feelings about second hand locos. It's a win or loose and I experienced both. Although there are a lot of problems with recent new locos there are also very good ones. The new Hornby Class 8P 'Merchant Navy' 4-6-2 35024 "East Asiatic Company" is a winner as is the beautiful little J15 and the reliable smooth running K1 (even with the 3-pole motor !). Could it be that there are different in China
Could it be that there are different manufactures in China with different levels of production quality ?
Cheers, Filip
Hi Filip, glad it was of interest! Must say as a Southern man the MN wins lol Take care. Mike
I suppose so, just not trustworthy
They are lovely locos an absolute bargain.😁
Thanks, yes they are, we'll pleased
I mainly prefer second hand older ones, got lots of Mainline Railways locos
Good stuff some of then
Is there a product code for that tool you used to remove the Speedo cable?
Can't recall but it's the Hornby crank pin tool
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited thank you
I've seen that issue with the piston rods on many models, often wondered if it would be worth buying a length of thin wall brass tube, if suitable diameters could be found. Drilling out the cylinders to accept the tube OD and bushing it that way.?
One detail that has always annoyed me on the Princess is the shape of the pony truck, sure they could have done better.
Hi Nigel, you know I thought about doing that here lol it might well work
Where do you buy these 2nd hand locos?
Hi David, carefully on ebay, do a search for what you are after, look at the sellers reputation and trust nothing under 98% then take a CAREFUL look at the photos and read the description. If refunds are not accepted, ignore and look else where.
Thank you for this video. It's amazing. Are you keeping these locos or you selling them on
Thanks very much Tom, no they become part of my fleet :)
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited nice. I would love to have the merchant navy in my fleet
Great job again Mike , that’s what I had to replace on my Arthur class Sir Sagamore. regards Fred ps have sent you an email Mike
Cheers Fred. Take care
Hi Mike - do you have any tips / tricks / advise for successfully adding the front steps to the Merchant Navy? I tried it once and ended up doing more harm than good so haven’t attempted it since. Otherwise, another very useful workbench video as I learned a lot - thanks for taking the time to put it together.
Hi Neil, most kind of you. OH they really are a pain, tweezers, hold your breath, tiny spot of good Super Glue oh and prayers, that may help to :)
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited Thanks Mike - I’ll add a glass of wine to the list too in case of success - or not. Either way I’ll be prepared lol. Cheers!
RT models sell cast metal steps for these locos for about £3.99 for a loco set. These are very robust and won't snap or detach unlike the Hornby variants.
Hope this assists !
@@carlinemark5331 Thank you for the tip, I’ll check them out!
I agree with you in that the older models were better and cheaper, £ for £... The manufacturers haven't got the same dedication to quality, or VFM, these days...it's all about money, money, money and appeasing the shareholders! It's the same with supermarkets and food suppliers! Welcome to rip-off Britain!
Whole country is a tory made mess. Let's hope the national strike brings about change
I find it rather weird that your Princess Royal engine bears the name of a Duchess. The Princess Coronation or Duchess Class engines are larger in size and have smoke deflectors.
images.app.goo.gl/KuzDGTdHMHQZ5rfD6
The emphasis now seems to be “produce as many niche variants before someone else does” rather than “make fewer, make them better”. The newer Hornby steam locos are crud. The electrical pickup systems would be laughable if they weren’t so eye wateringly expensive.
Hornby Rocket - colour of the coaches doesn’t match the loco.
Hornby Princess - Awful awful pickup system.
Class 71 - DCC Ready but no room for a decoder unless you use a tiny decoder like a Lais, and that’s a right squeeze. Lovely model but again, no thought gone in to it.
Hello Kim, yes there are many sad things, I suppose we need to look at the Hornby Terriers and Rustons which are great models
Merchant navy being re built in eastleight now
Excellent news
I worked their on diesels and wagons,stva car transporters
100 ton Murco tankers nuclear wagons
Now no longer working due to terminal illness
@@user-os6lz4sz1o ! Very sorry to hear that
If this is the place to make a statement, I'll no longer buy new models from either Hornby or Bachmann, not just on account of the price, which is extortionate (OK, so I grew up in the 50's and 60's - and still think in their prices) but on account of the poor press so many are getting. Either shoddily built and shouldn't have been let out of the factory, or built from materials having limited lifespans and too many over-delicate parts which break or fall apart, with no replacement parts being available. The gross over-sophistication of the products and their poor reputation are killing the hobby.
Hi John, that is an understandable position to take! It's also very sad. I have purchased some new models that have been excellent.
I think that the British steam locomotives are better than the U.S.
I have run Hornby Dublo 3/2rail most of my life I wont touch the moden chinese crap ever
Thanks glad you enjoyed
What's with all this "she" business when talking about locos? I thought only ships were "she" !
hahah nope, most locos are 'she's' as well :)