The LOST WORLD of AMAZING AUSTIN CONVERSIONS - Austin 3 Litre Downton Engineering And More!
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- In this video we explore some of the most incredible and mysterious Austin cars ever made, from the 50s - 80s these British classics and something to behold with Fast Austin 3 Litres by Downton Engineering, Austin Princesses set free with estate conversions and very weird Austin Allegro convertibles.
I have credited where possible these works are transformative.
ARonline is a great source and provided most of the images in this video; www.aronline.co.uk/
Follow me on Instagram for more cool stuff: / tomisdrivingcars - Авто та транспорт
Allegro was launches in 1973 not 1963
Misspoke there sadly! It’s up now not much I can do. But yes you are correct, 1973.
Well spotted Russ. 👍🏻😂
@@steviemac8075question is, would it have been more successful back then? 😂
@tomdrives Probably esp in the BMC era.
I was just about to say the same thing
Thanks for making this video Tom. There is no mention of the Leyland Australia Austin V8. This was a Austin 1800 which had a Leyland 4.4 V8 engine & front wheel drive set up. It was given serious consideration but was cancelled due to the costs of production. There was one prototype car built and it's current location is unknown.
That car is going in its own separate video, along with the ADO61 V8
You have just reminded me of the Marina, there was a 6 cylinder 2.6litre version too.
I had an Austin 3 Litre auto in 1976 - VOT 868H. A beautiful car, but very thirsty. I'd loved them since their launch, but I was only 21 when I had mine, and too young to really appreciate it. Power and elegance all wrapped up in a beautiful design. I also managed to find a scrap one which I used for parts when needed. Happy memories of many years ago ! Great video - thanks for sharing. Take care 🙂
Hubnut visited a collector of many Austin 3 litres in New Zealand and carried out a test drive as well...
As a 3 litre owner in Australia, very rare here as not sold here, I really enjoyed this video. Thanks Tom, top job.
Used to have a 1968 3 Litre back in the day which I thought was a great very comfortable cruiser. Very underrated it was so relaxing to drive on long distances and very reliable with loads of luggage space.
Good stuff. BL did make a hatchback version of the Princess wedge, the Ambassador. I had one. Great car, comfortable and quite lively with the 1700 O series engine and massively spacious.
Many years ago I had a Mk1 ADO16 in Old English White with red interior. Lovely thing with a Bus style steering wheel and the strip speedo.
Well done Tom. I think that's one of your best videos yet. The 3 litre was a lovely car in my view. They were also used in the carriage trade our local undertaker had a 3 litre hearse. You did well to get so many pictures of the 3 litre. I wasn't aware there was a Radford 1100.👍
Thank you! The Downton 3 Litre was something I only discovered a week or so back. What a car!
Yes, the 3 litre won an award in the day for being The Best Hearse, a dubious distinction. 😆
Just brilliant Tom. My dad worked at Castle Bromwich. He always said the members of the unions would kill BMC eventually not the unions themselves.
Late 70s I raced an 1800 landcrab hatch back as a stock car, it was fitted with a MGB engine, that took a lot of engineering skills.
Tom, thank you, as ever, great video. Always love anything 3 Litre wise! Didn't know about the Downton conversion or the Mystique!!!
Top content.
Thanks Nick, really appreciate it.
I’d love a 3 Litre myself but if I had a choice of a big exec now I’d probably go Humber Super Snipe Series III and above.
My friend had an Austin America in the late 1960s. It was fun to drive and surprisingly roomy.
A friend bought a Crayford 3 litre estate. Used to be owned by the director of Brook Bond, so we called it the flying tea chest! Nice ride, and my god! The space! Huge inside.
BL sure threw away some amazing opportunities Tom
They did Chris… it seems that’s the what they did as well as manufacture cars on the side.
Best bit of the 3 litre was the insane self levelling rear end. It meant that the car held the level the car was at WHEN YOU STARTED THE ENGINE, so that you had to leave the engine running whilst you loaded the boot, or the suspension would slump as the load went in, wnd would then stay slumped for the whole journey, taking all the movement out of the suspension. A friend of ours had one of these, or did in theory, as it spent more time in the garage than at his home address, and nobody ever seemed to really fix it, which was odd in an age where electronics were non existent.
CWD121J was originally the works ambulance at AP in Leamington Spa. I was an apprentice there and remember it well.
re: Crayford conversions
While some of Crayford’s conversions were quite clever, they tended to be loaded with tons of filler bog over raw metal with no rust prevention.
I once owned a Crayford Estate conversion of a W116 280 SE Mercedes-Benz. It had previously been the Australian runabout of the (now infamous and dead) Rolf Harris.
Superficially, the conversion looked quite good, but it used a Ford Granada tailgate, and that was where the rot set in. There was so much bog around the tailgate aperture - in parts up to an inch thick! - that the car almost fell apart in that section.
Yes, the basic 1973 Benz wasn’t brilliant for rust protection either, but it was the Crayford work that rotted the worst. All the other 15 Crayford Estate W116 Benzes that were made rotted similarly.
I eventually sold that wagon, and it found its way back to the UK for a restoration (a *huge* and ambitious job).
love the w116 i will have to look up the estate
Banger racing the old cars grave yard
My dad worked for Securicor as a chase driver for wages deliveries
He was using an ADO16 KESTREL.Running a 1.6 Coventry climax Crossflow(from what I remember) it was in light grey with a red roof.
Hillman Imps used climax engine originally from world war 2 portable fire pumps
15mpg on the original? that's in line with owning a subaru wrx sti. I had no idea fuel economy was so enriched from the 60s to the 90s.
I had a rare manual with overdrive, lucky to squeeze 20mpg out of it. Got sold as I couldn't afford to feed it! Reg was UWN 1H.
Lovely I owned a Riley Pathfinder 1957 2.6 overdrive
I had a chance to buy a second hand Austin 3 litre or a Datsun 2300 here in New Zealand in 1977.
I was advised by a mechanic I trusted that both were "orphans"...few were in the country and spares would be a nightmare.
I test drove both and was impressed by the Austin (my parents had had an 1800 so I knew how they were roomy anyway)..
and the Datsun impressed by the otherwise "optional extras" that came as standard with the car...but it had a 4 -on -the- tree column change gear shift....
So instead I bought a manual 1975 Datsun120Y saloon (B210) which I drove for 11 years and 200k kms...
which allowed me to save enough money to buy a house...
repairs and fuel consumption both being absolutely minimal.
I had the Austin 1800 LOVED IT !! Like driving a very comfortable lounge.
Top vid Tom great info on Austin conversions Princess with the hatchback conversion more practical what should have been
Thanks Neil! Yes I agree a bit of a missed opportunity there.
I have read that BL stopped the Princess from becoming a hatchback as it would steal buyers from the Rover SD1. Shortsighted as usual. The later Ambassador got the hatchback though, but alas it was too late.
There was a Austin A40 Farina convertible done by Jensen (301 BOE) & also one done by Vanden Plas which had a slide off roof, both of these vehicles are featured in Barney Sharrett's 'Baby Austins', I actually know the guy who once owned the 'Jensen' one, the hood was electric powered
To NICK B.
How amazing! I myself thought the Farina A40 DID have the appropriate lines, to do a convertible! Have you ever seen pictures of the ALLEGRO convertible? Commissioned by the car dealer, Spikins, of Twickenham. I thing only about 15 or so were made. By an amazing co-incidence there was a local Allegro meeting group, that I went along to. There someone HAD a white one, (I've just SEEN one in this film!)
And the owner had even put a VANDEN PLAS interior in!
A really informative film of some MOST significent rarities! Well done
SPEAKING of Princess and TR7 designer, Harris Mann, he is often quoted as being the Allegro's designer, and how British Leyland "betrayed" his sketches, by altering them completely. Actually, he did a sketch that was slimmer looking a bit like a 2- door hatchback Vauxhall Chevette.
But the REAL idea for the Allegro is in fact from a fibreglass version of the Mini 1000, a few years earlier. Called the OGLE SX1000. (I've been lucky to have been in the right place at the right time - and actually SAW one!)
If you've enjoyed seeing this intriguing film - you can't afford not to look up the OGLE SX1000 on the internet!😊
To TOM
I've mentioned in a comment about how the final design for the AUSTIN ALLEGRO actually came from an earlier car, the OGLE SX1000, designed by David Ogle.. YOU, of all people should enjoy looking this up on the internet and there's a good bit about it!
Man the Downton end really leaved me bitterness in my mouth
Leyland knew best.... NOT.
Quality and interesting as always
Thank you :)
That was a fantastic piece of history, well done as it gave me n me dad a blast down memory lane, the amount of research you must of compiled to get it correct, thanks as we drove most of the cars at some point in our lives from the Austin, British Leyland and Rover camps as they were easy to repair find parts and generally tinker with..... The list of vehicles is too long to mention that we had the pleasure of driving but suffice too say I wish we had kept a few as they have shot up in price to more than what the were originally sold for in the showroom or on the forecourt..... Keep up the channel as it has really entertained us both laughing about clutch changes being done in an hour on a mini or the leaf spring bushes on a Cambridge countryman swopped in 30mins a side or the king pins on the same car being greased as it was a nightmare to replace them or hydrogas suspension failure was common issue on the ambassador and my first metro which was me mum's rear suspension units giving whilst she was shopping the tails n memories came flooding back.... It's a huge shame the lost the battles with foreign car manufacturers, we still had lots of experience and enjoyment with are list and the dreaded iron oxide killed most of them as you soon learned the weaknesses they had and what or how to weld them or change panels quite often... 😉
My Uncle who was Lorry driver for the Newcastle brewries had the 1800 " Land Crab " , it was huge with front bench seat ..His family like him were , eh very large an it was the ideal Car for them.
Another great vid, It always amazed me that the 18-22 series was never launched as a hatchback, I didn’t realise it was originally intended to have one !
Your work is excellent dear boy.
Thank you!
Great work
Thank you
These videos are so interesting. I shall be going to one of the Gaydon British Motor Museum evening events regarding Longbridge prototypes on Tuesday and watching your videos has topped me up with knowledge.
I’m there as well Ben, some great stuff on show at the museum.
@tomdrives see you there. Looks a great event.
Informative video, thank you ! Would like to see something on the Humber 3 liter hemi. It seemed like an advanced motor . Was it short stroke ? How many main bearings ? Any racing pedigree ?
I always find it amazing that BL shied away from hatchbacks. The Princess and then the Ambassador was a huge mistake after the original design had one. It shows how bad management was at the time, but that is no excuses for the lack of care in assembly or the interruption of manufacturing (strikes) that did for many cars not just the AD1.
I learned to drive in those days, in an Austin 1100. It had it's strong points, but many weaknesses. I can't help be amazed that the three litre should have been offered with such glacial performance. Sixteen seconds to sixty! No wonder it wasn't popular. German executive saloons at the time came with near Downton performance as standard.
1:03 sums up all my projects 🤣
The most interesting Austin 3 Litre development was a Wolseley badged car powered by the Rover V8. At least one prototype was built but it was unfortunately not decided to put the car into production.
I’ve seen that as well… let’s just say I’ve got a video in the works.
@@tomdrives Ripper Tom, sounds intriguing.
Tom, how about researching and driving one of the Rover P4 converted to the 3.5 engine. The Rover P4 Drivers' Guild should be able to help you track down one or more.
I’ve never heard of those before, the P4 Drivers’ Guild how do I get in touch via a website or a Facebook page?
@1.20, a friend of mine had a Austin 3 litre estate, he also had a 3 litre Hearse
There was a few people I’m told that took a liking to them and collected as many as they could.
The Creech Mystique is a fascinating car. I wonder how easy it would be to create a replica?
Ah the Austin 3L Checker cab...
Tom, you have found a unique section of car reviewing that I found really enjoyable, yet may I offer some friendly advice? Your delivery is too fast and the editing brutal that gives your really impressive research an air of nervous panic. Relax and you are on your way to a great series to which I really look forward! Go for it!
Rob
Thanks Robert I do agree with you there. I’m trying to nail the dynamics of it I appreciate the feedback :)
It’s a real pity the Austin 3 Litre (which I still love) didn’t have a updated option of a Austin 3.5 Litre (alloy) V8.
This is really interesting stuff! Back in New Zealand in the mid 70s we had an amazing little car. It was a hillman Californian! It was a ragtop two door! We travelled around NZ for a while in it and i have no memory of what happened to it! I have never seen or heard of another one! So is there any history of this particular car?
Hi Tom , another great video, the reason that Bl left the 18-22 series and Austin princess as saloon only option as they didn’t want to affect sales or the newly Rover SD1 or ongoing Austin maxi .regards mark
British managers doing what they do best, managing their company into bankruptcy.
@@Dont_Gnaw_on_the_Kittythe Leyland drawing at about 4:20 sums it up quite well. It's a roundabout, but the cars are going all over the place, some the right way, some the wrong, just waiting to crash.
Very interesting, and reinfoces that the only good looking thing to come out of the Crayford factory was the Princess hatchback/estate, because it was visually unchanged from the original. They had a particular skill in making cars practical but ugly.
I had a 1952 ex AFS Austin K9 trayback with the 6 pot sheerline- went like stink but brakes were optional- happy days towing stupid manky caravans in my new age traveller days!
I was always amazed that they called the 2912cc 6 banger a 3-liter lol...Downton and David Vizzard are my hero's of yesteryear🤘
Heroes
I drove a new 2200 hls inaudible at 100mph
And super smooth much underrated car
Despite the reputation leyland made some cracking stuff when it was right there was some rubbish but it was all of the same ilk at the time from all manufacturers exception being series 1 xj6 truly brilliant 😊
I wonder what was the top speed and 0 to 60 time of the allegro? With the usual strengthening for a soft top the allegro would have been carrying a lot more weight.
Personally id love to do a bit of an Allegro “redemption” arc when my 2600 is done. Not that it really needs it in my opinion.
@@tomdrives I agree with you on that the Allegro gets a lot of bad press as did the Marina . Love them or hate them they are a rarity now because nobody wanted to save them.
Geeee a 3 litre Mini variant . What could go Wrong 🤣
My maternal grandparents had an Austin 1100 in the 1970s. If only BMC had produced a car like the Mystique!
At some point you need to do a video on the BMC range of marine diesels bet you never heard of the 948cc mini diesel ⚓🛠️🤠😜JB
What about the Austin Apache and Austin Kimberly?
Great video as ever. What about the Mini Inocennti, probably spelt that wrong😅
Poll on my main page about that, I’ll be doing a video on the Italian expedition of BL soon
I have a soft spot for the Austin 3000 because it was based on the Austin 1800 and l happen to ride in the back seat of an Austin 1800 and it was one of the most comfortable cars l have ridden in it left a lasting impression on me and that was back in the 1970s and that is why l like Austin 3000 because they were never available in Australia and found out about them through you tube a transverse 6 cylinder Austin with the Austin 1800 suspension and extended front and rear and the same size cabin and that is another thing that made the ride in the Austin 1800 so enjoyable was the space l have never riden in a Rolls Royce and with the Downton conversion would raise the Austin 3000 to a over level but alas British Leyland is no longer around
I thought the Princess also had the 1.7l E series four cylinder (we rented one with this engine in the Isle of Man in either 1977 or 78. As our family car at the time was an Austin 1800 we had a direct comparison. And afterwards replaced the 1800 with a Morris 2200.
1.8 b series & 2.2 e series then 1.7 o series I think.
My first 'legal' car was a G reg Austin 1100 British racing green, made it go a bit faster:)
Sounds like a lovely thing
Mystique & Pricess Hatch, more missed opportunites...
Excellent as ever Tom, I would be very interested in the rabbit hole that is the B M C diesel options- when you consider the fx4 being from the bmc stable ( i often worrk on 'marinised' versions in narrowboats to this day, but what other bmc offerings across the territories fell to the 'economies' of the perkins and A and B series oil burning variants, let alone the 'commodre' big block oily thug - ( didnt some SD 1 s in India succumb to such abuse ! ?
The next video will be on the British cars abroad. I do agree though the BMC diesels are rarely covered and are quite interesting
And of course the austin gypsy- that poor relation that the tin worm fancied far more than the Solihull birmabrite version - really never stood a chance, ditto the champ...
The cost, no VAT!
Also a 1947 Wolseley
The 3-litre would have been a contender if the front end was not that of a Checker.
the Creech Mistique is a genius conversion using that MGB GT hatch. its tidy, very pretty and cost effective. the Aussie market Austin-Morris Nomad with its Maxi? tailgate is untidy and ugly in comparison.
There was also a stretched limousine version of the 3 litre.
There was yes, the limos will be covered in their own video.
What happened to Ken Hunt who used to work for BMC at Longbridge , he lived in Barnt Green and had the two door prototype vanden plas and others from the factory? Does anyone know what happened to him and the cars . He must have been well in his 70’s in the 1980’s when he used to come to the car shows . He would tell stories of how he worked for free after the war with Austin so the company did not go under and his wife was used by the press department in a few photos with the cars due to her petite size to make the cars look larger.
Hopefully someone can share some light on him . Thanks
I hope someone can too, I’ll see if I can find anything as well while of course respecting people’s privacy.
The Princess Estate that was for sale was located in the Netherlands, not in Holland!
Your videos are brilliant anymore mg maestro metro and montego videos
Re the Mystique ADO 16 hatchback, there was a classic Mini conversion called a Codford that used the same MGB GT hatchback panel. Not strictly a factory conversion but interesting all the same. Also, didn't the Australians make a hatchback version of their (Morris) 1100?
Yes we had the Morris Nomad in Australia. A 5 door 1100.
That's the model I was thinking of. Once again, like the Mini, BMC Australia made a better version than the UK..
For it to be any good , it would have needed kg’s to have been removed from the rotating mass for performance , as the MGC mods
The three litre would probably have sold in Australia rather than the "freeway/cambridge"
Who designed the Austin 3litre ? “Checker” ?
Cool channel, Broseph..I’m an American, and a girl, by the way. I know, it’s weird…
My dad bought an Austin 3 litre (in dark blue) to replace the Wolseley 6/99 (light over dark blue) They were both great tow cars and swallowed up a family of 6 but even after a couple of years the 3ltr was rotting badly.
We'll composed ourstory investigation thank you
The Austin 3 litre that looked like a big 1800 was not popular, just 9992 built. I remember some being used by government ministers in Downing Street in the 1970s.
They were not Austin's but there were the Heinz 57's Wolseley Hornets convertibles (57 made) & they were given as prizes by Heinz, I think Crayford made them?
Correct yes! I covered those in another video. They tried the same with a none convertible Metro in the 90s
Daniel Richmond was not married to Bunty, wherever you got your facts from they're wrong. As far as the Austin 3 Litre, the Downton conversation was the same as for the MGC, they both used the same 3lt C series engine when new, which technically was a C series Mk 2 engine, though it has the same displacement as the original C series, the later version was slightly lighter and shorter, but had a 7 bearing crankshaft. It needed Downton's input to make these engines go, they were no where as good as the old C series lump fitted to the Healey 3000 Mk3. I used to get various parts from Downton's in the early 70's. Daniel Richmond's philosophy was making the BMC engines breath correctly by getting the air into and out of the engine as efficiently as possible, not only did it make the cars perform better but also improved fuel consumption. I currently have an MGC which has a Richard Longman head conversion, Richard is an ex employee of Downton's, he left and set up his own Motor Sport business carrying out cylinder head conversations for his legionary Mini's. When Richard left Downton he took with him Downton's cylinder head guru George Toth.!
They weren’t married correct but people referred to them as husband and wife which is well documented. I covered Richard etc in another video and will be doing a more in depth one on Downton.
I'd be very surprised if any of those conversions were produced in double figures. !! There was also a factory built 3 Litre wirh a Rover V8 (which weighed about half what a C series did...) which was apparently quite a car !
There was yes, another video will follow on that very special car.
Banger racers are the bain of the classic car world either through huberous , pigheadedness or ignorance , quite a few collectable and historically significant cars met this fate
The engine in the Austin 3 litre was not a c type. The engine had the same capacity but all components were reengineered - there were no common parts. The main objective seemed to be increased smoothness and less vibration, chiefly via a new 7 main bearing design. Unfortunately the development process lost control over the weight of the engine and of the car. This resulted in a very heavy 100% iron engine and a cumbersome thirsty car
A history of missed opportunities and being run by accountants not engineers. My father was a top designer in the late 60’s and tells many a tale about the idiotic decision above him after fantastic innovations that never got into current models on the lines or further upgrades for year on year tweaks.
There is another Torcars Princess A Russett brown 2200HLS .... Torcars took over Princess conversions when Crayford folded in 1979
Something I didn’t know, thank you for that. Question is…. Is that your Maxi in your photo?
Where does the Austin Taman and Kimberley fit into this . . . .
P.s Tom- does anyone know how many A60 estates were made, and how many A60 diesels ( bloominawful!) Were made???
I don’t! I wonder how many diesels survive?
They were perki s 4108 units also fitted to P.A crestas for taxi use... I had one in a marina estate, sold the aftermarket fog and spots for more than the car...
Only lasting 3 years, that's 3 years to long, I used to work on them, unless I could get out of it somehow.
My dad had a mini van that a fire engine hit its rear end it was written off but was still roadworthy the petrol tank was #ucked so we had an old mini saloon mot failure we took the petrol tank out of that and bolted it behind the driver seat in the mini van because the battery was ther to feed the pump no health and safety in those days we loved it and drove about the fields in it greetings from Scotland 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Thanks Ian, good to see you here again.
How can the fate of the Downton Austin 3-Litre be unknown?!
Just for future reference - it's pronounced "vanden plah". Sad to see that ambulance get banger raced, people seem to get a strange pleasure from destroying rarities
It’s not from what I’ve heard. Spoke to the British Motor Museum, they’ve verified for the British version it’s Plas
ADO 61 had an ugly front and hand-me-down doors from the Maxi and the Landcrab. If it had been styled properly as a Wolesley, with a better more upmarket dashboard, it might have made money. Austin made a similar mistake with the Ambassador, or hatchback Princess. Too little, too late.
The three litre was doomed to failure. It had no more room (except in the boot) and less performance than the Austin 2200.
The Austin Allegro was launched in May 1973, not 1963.
Correct, I managed to get my 60s and 70s mixed up!
the C series engine in the 3 litre was a extensive redesign of the C series engine with a 7 bearing crank to enable the engine to handle in excess of 200bhp, because the original C series couldn't reliably handle more than 150bhp.... They only used this engine in two cars, the 3 litre and MGC, neither had more than 150 bhp....total waste of time when BMC allegedly had no money
A crossflow head would have been nice .
Why hasn't Leyland given the Austin 3L to Innocenti? Would have been a great alternative to the Fiat 130!
If you close your eyes, and don't look at it
Oups, you can see very clearly that these are old cars.
the Austin 3litre and 1800 were ugly, ugly, but the estate conversion of the 3 ltre was acceptable, the 1100/1300, 1800 and Princess with a hatch would have been sellers, just shows how short sighted BMC/Leyland management were.
The British labour unions and the Aristocratic executives finished the British Auto industry. Now that it is long gone, I hope everyone is at bliss? A lesson for hard-headed unionists in other climes.
My father owned an Austin Westminster A110, which I believe used the same engine as the Austin 3L.
Beautiful car. Unfortunately, he left it to rot whilst serving a three year driving ban in 1967.
It was eventually towed away, to be used for 'banger racing'.
No, the Austin A110 was a different engine to the Austin 3 Litre/MGC