A few people have asked me how they can support the channel and the work I do on here, I don’t have memberships or a Patreon or any donation buttons etc but I have thought I do drink a lot of coffee during the week researching these videos.. so I’ve decided to create a buy me a coffee page where you can send a small amount to keep me caffeinated during my research! Linked here: www.buymeacoffee.com/tomisdriving
proud owner of a 1981 2300 . done over 150,000 miles last owner had it 42 years I’ve had it 3 months and love it ! Good to see someone doing this as I’ve been thinking about tweaking mine . Also have a p5b coupe undergoing restoration
There is no getting around it. The SD1 was spot on with the 3.5 litre V8. Any other smaller engines just could not compete. If not for build quality the mighty SD1 3500 would have been so much better than it was.
We did a 2600 back in the early 90s as a track day car for a customer. Using a very similar set up to what you have got. Using a luminition electronic ignition lucas oil cooled coil and a pretty aggressive cam shaft made by kent it was making 240 bhp at wheels. Cooling needed to be vastly uprated and he soon found the rear diff did not like it. Dont know where you are. I am in lincolnshire but would be happy to donate some time to help if you are not a million miles away.
I think you mean final drive, DIFF’S never had a problem ever, if you ever knew what a diff was like most people don’t derrr 😅 Did it have a front diff? Derrr?. Do you actually know what a DIFF is? So many people don’t. A final drive is a gear reduction and turns the drive through 90 degrees. There you go! The differential varies the drive to the inner and outer wheels on cornering! Simples! 😅
@@paulallen6915 It is still incorrect terminology, A final drive which is what it is, primarily a GEAR reduction, then turns the drive 90 degrees. The differential action is a MINOR function. That is what I was taught as an apprentice and at technical college, where I passed my national craftsman exam and technicians certificate. What qualifications do you have? Calling it a diff is incorrect!
@@goffthomas2554 I have a City & Guilds in mechanical engineering for four years and a master tech certificate from Ford. The qualifications are a moot point. People say hoover, but we know its a vacuum. Its just easier than the long winded version. Lock the diff and get it on a greasy road and tell me it's a minor function. The only time I have referred to a final drive was on a planetary type drive on Cat motor scrapers and earth movers.
My uncle had a sd 2600 back in 1991 and let me have a go. I was newly passed my test and was driving a mini 850. My god did that car move and so comfy ❤
In 1977, I attended a Leyland course on Sprints and Stags in Coventry. At that time, BL were testing a new car intended for release called the Lynx and I'm fairly sure the 2600 was referred to as the Lynx engine and was the power unit in the new car. It was being driven around the midlands with a box over it to disguise it and at that time, BL seemed to be pleased with the tests so far. I seem to remember that the cam lobes at the back of the head (No.6) were prone to breaking off between the two rear caps. I always thought the SD1, especially the V8, was a lovely car to drive fast and felt a lot more stable and safer in corners than the P6 but it never felt as good build and quality wise as the P6. The other thing I'll never forget is when a small group of us managed to sneak into one of the design drawing rooms and saw a drawing on a board for a TR8 2+2. We got caught and I thought we were going to be slung of off the course. Two guys from the plant went absolutely crazy at us but luckily, one of our group had the nerve to say to them "So which one of you forgot to lock the door, then?" and they calmed down a bit then. Fun times.
I had a 2600 in the early 80s and found it an interesting drive as despite the odd starting problem I found the car a good drive especially with the slightly vintage feel from the gear box .
I never came across a troublesome 2600. I liked it a lot. I only got to drive them occasionally (company fleet) but one thing I did notice was what sweetheart the SD1 2600 was to drive on snow and ice. So smooth and controllable and a perfect complement to the long-nosed axle rear which allowed good traction but which could be overwhelmed by the V8's brutality.
I had a pair of side-draught Weber 40 DCOEs on my 2-litre full-rally-engined Fiat 131 - it was bonkers! You'll almost certainly need to get it on a dyno to get them jetted right, and invest in a set of vacuum gauges to keep them balanced. But the result - with the right cam - will have you grinning like a loon all day long! |Brakes and suspension will need to be upgraded next. Looking forward to seeing the progress...
You've just reminded me of my old 1.6 twin-cam mirafiori (spelling?). Used as a rallycross car in the late 80's & at the time I had free access to AvGas, so ran it 50/50 with pump fuel. Omg that thing used to rev like crazy, well past the red line!
@@wirdy1 - Yes! My 4-door Supermirafiori 1600TC began unmodified, but I too fell in love with that wonderful engine and decided I wanted more! I found a tuning company which ralleyed Fiats and they offered seriously breathed-on versions of either the 1800 TC or the 2000. I figured that because the Mirafiori Sport used the 2000 I’d go for that, but my, it was an animal! I later thought that less stroke and more revs could have been better for what was a daily driver, but I decided to accommodate the mad vibrations for the sake of the sheer power! It broke 2 competition clutches and 3 diffs, and I once had an indicated 140 mph out of it! It was also very thirsty and noisy, but I loved it!
Good feature, this was the last of the modern era OHC engines fully developed by BL / Triumph (okay the later ‘O’ series was an upgraded OHC ‘B’ series) and overall it was a success despite the power strangulation and daft cheapening like giving the base 2300 s a 4-speed gearbox. The Triumph 2000 / 2500 range with its old pushrod 6 could have been made for another year or so before their delayed replacement by the SD1 6 cyl models (kits were sent to Australia / New Zealand for a while) but the decision to retool the Canley factory for TR7s had been made. And the ‘O’ series of course later went into the SD1 to reinvent the “Rover 2000” model. A friend worked as an apprentice mechanic in a Chester Leyland franchise, he said that doing the valve clearances was very tricky, I think there was similarity to the Dolomite Sprint setup.
When I started my first job as an engineer at Hoborn Eaton after leaving Uni in '79 I was fascinated by BMW's. With my first paycheck I bought an E12 528i auto on the never never. Well, everyone in managment at Hobourn drove Rover SD1's, that was the car that said you had arrived at the top, at least where I worked. On the first day driving my BMW into the works car park our chief executive was parking up his Blue SD1 Vitesse and watched me park. He came over to me and put his arm around me and I will never forget his words ' You're not going to get very far here driving a kraut wagon you know, get yourself a Rover, this German crap is never going to catch on.'
Had a 2600se was a good car just service regularly, gave engine a light overhaul and gas flowed head alot of material removed around exhaust valve guide as was very restricted at this point . Still had standard carbs and exhaust just tuned mixture and found it had power when revv'd past 4,000rpm where before it just revv'd up to red line also did 32mpg on trip from Swindon to Leeds to work for the week .
I had a 2600S as a company car for and it was very reliable. When it was due for change I bought it for my dad who ran it for years afterwards. The only issue he had was the ignition but it was an easy fix.
My dad had a 2600 manual, custard yellow, in launch year 1976 (R reg). Curiously, it had all round electric windows but no power steering and even at over 4 turns lock to lock was still heavy, especially manoeuvring / parking. I liked the car, but not as much as the dark blue Triumph 2.5 PI Mk II auto (P reg) it replaced - I absolutely loved that car!
Thanks, I had a 2600 rover in the early 80s as a company car, it did over 100000 miles and I do not recall any real problems, maybe the engine had been partially sorted by then. It was quick enough but nothing special,very spacious and comfortable, but the back end bounced around a bit if you were too enthusiastic.
I have owned 8 BL cars and it angers me how the mainstream press slatted their cars in the day.just look at any classic car show now and see how many have survived or been restored. I have seen many metro MK1 and Allegro cars in great unrestored condition and being used as everyday transport.
My brother owned a Marina pickup, bare bones, no frills. Did over 300,000 miles with absolutely no issues. Perhaps South-African made BL was better quality than Pommie-built?
I remember a holiday with my parents around 1983 to Austria we rolled behind a German registered 3500 Vdp SD 1 with our ‚76 Citroen CX2200 Pallas . The 3500 pulled up the Kassel mountain very easy we walked behind with much throttle, downhill we came up and my dad showed me how you get the 200 kmh behind the lens although the Citroen was only known to go 182 kmh somehow the cream yellow Rover with the elderly lady had disappeared because it drove around at 130 kmh/82 miles constantly..
You're doing a brilliant job Tom, really got me into all of the BL, Rover, MG Rover history, of which I had little previous knowledge. I was born and brought up 4 miles from Longbridge 76 years ago, and most of my relatives, neighbours, schoolfiends etc. worked theres, so it's in the blood really. Half of me finds the fall of MG Rover intensely depressing and the other half finds it extremely interesting. I'm at present mid way through Mike Gould's book about Rover, and it contains so much relevant content that, when I've finished it, I think I'm going to have to go back to the beginning. Keep it going mate, essentially viewing. Congrats about saving the prototypes too.👍👍
I loved the 2.6 engine... Had a couple- including an auto- which curiously went like stink- more so than the manual ! Well maintained- a nice, smooth lump...
Had a few of these through my works in the late seventies and early eighties with head gasket issues. Due to over heating the heads would warp badly. So badly in fact, that if they were just re-faced, the camshafts would bind in the journals when the head was re-fitted to the block. To overcome this it was vital that they were re-faced on a vertical milling machine, once the head was pulled down flat to the mill bed, to ensure the cam journals stayed inline.
Very interesting vid. My mate had a 2600 many years ago and I thought it was great. I like straight 6's they are inherently smoother and balance than a V8 generally. It does make sense that they realised that a newly designed 2.6 would outpace a lazy American V8 so I think its logical that they nobbled these engines. I did a bit of work on a Triumph 2000 engines years ago, and what surprised me was how tiny and narrow the big ends were. Not much engineering margin there..
I served my time on those back in the 80s, The only problem with the cylinder heads was the oil restrictor in the cylinder block. It was designed with a one-way valve to retain some oil in the cylinder head. But used to carbon up very easily usually down to incorrect service intervals usually by the owner after a while, as a routine, we used to remove the pin out of the middle of the restrictor. After that, there were no more issues with them. They were a good engine. But a bit of a pain in the arse to set up on the bench, using all the individual shims taking the cam carrier on and off repeatedly
I owned one in the late 80's and had a string of problems with it including pulling up to a set of traffic lights after a 200 mile drive only to find it had a major misfire. It was only running properly on 2 cylinders because 4 cam lobes were completely round. I had to rebuilt the top end on the street to drive the 200 miles home using parts from a scrap yard. Also had issues with the wiring loom causing it not to start. I had to wire in a new ballast resistor. All in all, you putting a lot of work into a flawed engine. IE. It uses ONE cam lobe to operate BOTH the inlet and the exhaust valves so the valve timing will always be a compromise.
Tom, that’s a great project. I owned a 2600 for years and have an NG kit car with the 2600 engine but with a triple carb conversion. It was tuned on a dyno to get the SU needles set up. Still have the dyno sheet……somewhere! The tubular manifold should make a big difference. Thanks for sharing your project passion.
I'd be looking for a bump in compression if your going down the route of an upgraded camshaft. Matched to a good flowing head, itll really wake it up. If your not to bothered about originalty, id go wasted spark igntion only ecu control using some thing like a Mondeo v6 coilpack with appropriate leads.
I had a 4 cylinder 2 litre SD1 (Y reg) in the late 80s that I unfortunately wrote off running into the back of a Saab 900. So I bought a 2300 B reg. I was always a bit disappointed that the performance wasn’t greatly better and it had a gentle aroma of cigarettes and curry. I drove it well past 100,000 miles before I replaced it with an 820Si which was fantastic in comparison.
The few I came into contact with in the 80s had oil leak issues at the rear of the rocker shafts where they exited the head casting . If neglected for the service interval this could lead to low oil levels . My fix was to use a fibre washer under a steel repair washer and a bolt into the pre tapped hole already in the shaft to seal the shaft to head mating surface . Removal of the oil feed ball valve restrictor to,the head replacing with a fixed orifice would be a good move too . Rover metallurgy is excellent and this engine with its super strong bottom end screams turbocharger(s) injection & ITBs if the cylinder head issues can be resolved .
Your video is informative enough, mate. I think, the 2600 is nerfed by someone on BL's management because the Triumph design didn't accepted, because, you know, previous Chairman, Sir Donald Stokes, is a Triumph bloke. So maybe there's a hate in ex Triumph blokes that instead of Triumph, BL choose Rover. But, I love the SD1s, even though where I live, Indonesia, we don't even have SD1. I love it first time when I see Jeremy Clarkson drive a 3500 SD1 on Top Gear's British Leyland Challenge. It was in the Covid period, 2020. Then I start to search about the SD1s, and then knowing there is a 2300 and 2600 even the 3900. I just wanted to have at least one of each series of the SD1 here in Indonesia.
My Dad bought a Rover 2300 in 1979 it blew a cam cover gasket on its drive home from the dealership ! But i actually don't recall many engine issues after that (metal moth was another story though )
Just found your channel and looking forward to your build. I had a 2300 company car 1978-1980, had to return it as I moved abroad. The 2600 was above my pay grade! I remember it fondly as comfortable to drive, nice manual and clutch, and spacious but I had to reverse the driver seat mounts to suit my 6’4” frame, (which introduced me to the then new use of Torx fasteners). What it could have become with fuel injection, which was on my next Volvo.
I owned several SD1 2300/2600 both bought as scrap in the eighties . Cam belt snapped,take the head off ,two new valves, correct shims, new cam belt, allsorted with a Haynes manual. One of em is still on the DVLA register (sorned)
I had a 2.6 SDI auto and had no mechanical problems whatsoever. The real problem I had was when a Cavalier driver's foot slipped off the clutch and nigh on demolished the back end. His insurance paid for the repairs and as soon as it was done I sold it and bought a 5 Series BMW. That too was a six cylinder but it appeared smoother than the SDI. I sold the BMW when I was given a company Sierra. Now that was crap.
My dad used to have an SD1 2600. The car was quite OK. The only problem he had with it was a blown head gasket, turning the car into a kind of steam locomotive.
I had a 2300 and later a 2600 never had a problem with them. There was a guy in the SD1 club who took one out to 2900 if memory serves me right it was bored out and he used pistons and rings from a Volvo 260 v6
I was in the motor trade from 1978 until1995. My experience of triumph 4 and 6 cylinder engines was that the crankshafts were always weak. Not enough or big enough main bearings. Also the crank thrust bearings were weak. You heard a strange noise when you pushed the clutch down. Sometimes the block was so damaged it was not possible to fit new thrusts. The 2000/2500 were a nice mooth engine, but the Pi was a disaster in both saloon and TR6. Many people took off the injection and put back a pair of SU's. As for Dolomites, in particular the Sprint, that was another problematic engine. They really went well and were fun to drive, but you could not keep a head gasket on them. B. L. Abingdon competitions ran them with Tony Pond? at the helm. I replaced several dolly sprint head gaskets. Lousy job since the engine was at an angle you could not get the head off without removing the head studs. It was always a big problem to get them to unscrew from the block, as they corroded in the aluminium head. We used to hang the weight of the car on the head, nuts removed, and doused in WD40 and very often overnight the head would loosen and slide up the studs,sometimes not though. Then you struggled with it any which way until it came off. In the end when we had one to do we would go to Abingdon competition department at the old MG works and buy a competition head gasket and replacement studs. The studs differed from the originals which were coarse theaded both ends in that the top end had fine threads. The tightening torque and pattern was different. I must say I never did another sprint head job once the Abingdon kit was fitted. I don't know where anyone would get that kit now. Ah happy days.
The SD1 was before my time so I never really saw many on the road growing up,now after watching this video I’m intrigued and I’ve subscribed for more content,cheers fella happy new year to ya 👍😉💪
My Dad inherited my great aunt’s Rover 2600. I believe it was on as ‘S’ plate. She bought it new and I remember wondering how she drove it. It was heavy; heavy clutch and steering. I drove it when I was about 20 (30 years ago). It was mustard-coloured. I wonder if it still exists.
Excellent idea. Everyone likes an underdog. Why not go with a fuel injection inlet manifold with modern coil packs? A modern ECU such a Haltech ECU will mean you can work with modern parts and have ultimate control for tuning. It may be more expensive but it will guarantee you'll have the best Rover 6 cylinder EVER (until someone does it better)
Here in Australia, there was a car, that came, factory, with triple 40mm DCOE Weber's, and it produced 302 bhp, from 265 cubic inches- volumetric efficiency of 114%, roughly. I also played, a lot, with a Toyota M-S, in my youth, which was a 120 cubic inch straight six, SOHC, with twin two-barrel Aisin carbs, it produced 139bhp, factory, once again, well above 100%v.e. Not quite sure what it produced, after I endowed it with six 1&1/4" SU's, and an MSD, but, in a 1050kg car, it did low 11-second quarter-miles. Basically, mate, I wish you luck, as I have been having success with oddball engines, since I tinkered with my Austin Freeways' engine, when I was 12.
I reckon its a fantastic project & due to health issues hope I'm around to see it completed. Back in 80's /90s was in used car trade & all models passed through my hands at sometime or other. Have always been a Rover guy at heart, right since my 1st P6 after passing my driving test at the tender age of 17. Never really had any problems with any of the SD1's. Its always been a disappointment to me how the British motoring journalists have always eager to soil the reputation of BL , Rover, MGR etc right up to the end. Head gaskets on K series is typical example. Vauxhall, Peugeot Fiat were all equally weak. In fact personal experience of a certain Tigra put me off vauxhall for life. I wish you well in this project. This particular Rover was strangled from birth. Its great that there's young guy's like yourself Tom that are prepared to prove it.
@tomdrives You're welcome Tom. I really am pleased that there's a few people like yourself. I think you see pretty much the same as myself. Like the Princess couldn't have a hatch because of damage to Maxi sales. (Just one example, I could give you many) You're doing a brilliant job of educating younger generations of what we had & how we lost it. Like I said in my original comment I hope I'm still around to see the fruits of your labour with this particular car.
My rover SD1 did over 95k miles before head work required. The triumph 6 cylinder in the TR5,TR6 was an entirely different performing engine I had both.
I had 2600 in the 90s and we used to run an oil designed for diesel engines as it contains a detergent to stop the oil ways clogging, the thing that puzzles me is why rover were so wedded to the v8 it's not the star people seam to think giving only 160 ish HP from 3.5 ltr when you got 140 HP from a four pot 2ltr Dolly sprint engine
Don’t forget to drill a hole in the spare wheel well to let out all the water. When I worked on these in the early 80s I’ve seen grown men cry tying to adjust the valance clearances after a head rebuild. You need lots of shims and go easy on the RTV sealant the major cause of failure after rebuilding. 10 thou inlet 12 thou exhaust.
Reading through the comments regarding this engines 'suspect dropped liner issues'....get in touch with 'Lee from 'Barum Engines' in Barnstaple North Devon. He is a specialist in fitting top hat liners & machining to the now very old Cosworth YB block... This would be your fix forever on your engine👌.
I often daydream of the SD1 and what it could have been with a organised union, good build quality and perhaps just borrow a small cube Buick V6 like they did the V8. A shrunken SD1 to compete with cortina with a dolly engine also could have been a world beater. If only 🤷🏻♂️
Had a 2600 auto, positive was an engine with basic electrics and carbs, non of the modern electrics and emission devices. Negative for me was the adjustment of the valve clearance was a nightmare. If I remember mpg was about 35. The car could have been a winner if it wasn’t for poor materials used in the build, and an absolutely abysmal front suspension design. Poor bushings etc. They can’t have been that good, as I haven’t seen one on the road for years.
For a good starting point, you're going to see some good gains with port matching the cyl head to the ex and int manifolds, and some decent manifolding which you have to start with. The key is going to be In the detail of dialing it in, having fitted the hardware even with the stock cam and compression ratio of 9.2:1. Carbs are going to need rebuilding before fitting, then setting up on a rolling road to get the fuelling right. I'm not sure exactly what the stock advance curve is, but be very worthwhile seeing what it should be stock and what yours is giving. You're going to need region of 28 ish degrees total advance. If the stock setup is as poor as I believe go straight to a 3d programmable ignition system. You ought to get close to 160hp / 200nm without opening it up. Good luck
100% correct. Thanks a lot for the insight. Apparently this ran 190BHP rolling road with no other modifications but the head is getting ported as you mentioned. The aim is to eliminate all of the problems the engine had when it was released.
@@tomdrives you'll want in the region of 10.5:1, some porting, and a fairly juicy cam to see that kind of output, which won't end up being very street drivable due to the symmetrical cam design. You want to head in the direction of manners & torque than max power.
BL should have just modernised their A, B and C-type engines. The Japanese versions of these engines (Datsun) were excellent. Better quality, more power and better fuel economy.
They did with the A&B series. They being the A+ and the O,M,T-series. The C was too heavy for anything except a truck. Maybe the E6 could have been used in the SD1 but did it was designed to be an engine with the gearbox in the sump. It didn't do the 4-cyl R-series much good by fitting an end on gearbox. Thinking about it, between Rover and Triumph they had far too many engine designs to do the same job, and should have worked together and developed different sized engines to share between all models. Politics and Unions got in the way.
I had a 2600 vdp which had it's issues. It had electric everything but buttons fired off the dash into the rear seats due to bulbs melting out the posts holding the button faces. Fiberoptic cables on the gear indication. My kids thought it was from star trek!
Great idea and interested to see how you do. I had a SAH tuned triumph 2000 with extraction manifold it went like a rocket but fuel vaporized when stationary and not easy to start to start as the engine bay was so hot. Get a good oil cooler and larger core radiator.
My cousin bought a used SD1 in the late 80s/early 90s when I was a kid - can’t recall if it was a 2300 or 2600 but it was an automatic in gold and had comfy seats - I recall my old man being super critical of it being an automatic (he’s always hated them!) and he was right as it was a lemon - probably as my cousin got it as a “bargain” 😮😂
They had their problems but they seemed pretty decent if regularly maintained - the police used quite a number of them alongside the 3.5 litre. They were fairly detuned in standard guise - presumably to as they would fairly comfortably produce similar outputs to the v8 - incidentally, also in a fairly low state of tune
I had one when they were new. A truly fantastic car with such a superb quiet engine, in my opinion it was a better car than the V8. Did ove 180,000 trouble free miles in it.
Question. Why the multiple images of the P76. Re the P76. the ohs 2.6 was okay, but the 4.4 was awesome. Sad to say as a young guy I broke four of them. My mate after driving his P76 and taking a photo of a 'Kornigsegg One' was told there are more Kornigsegg's in the UK than Leyland P76's.
Definitely make another video once you have done all of your modifications. It would be great to prove others wrong it is always the ultimate goal in life.
Can't wait to see how she runs, and looks. Lotsa luck to you, hope it goes super smooth. I bet it'll be beastly. What hp do you expect. I subscribed thats about all i can do at this point but i hope it helps.
Youre a brave young man. The old Rover SDI was absolute 'shite' (it's a motor trade term) and the reason why I have grey hair. The built quality was beyond rubbish, even the paint didn't stick to the bodywork and would become detached when the factory grease was steamed off prior to PDI. Don't forget to clean or replace that horrible little non return oil valve in the top of the block ! I've subscribed so I can see your progress, NOT to say 'I told you so'. Honestly, the SDI destroyed ROVER, it was such a crap car. Anyway, good luck, you're gonna need it. With my sincere respects.
I fully agree, bad workmanship, poor equity control, and the whole of the motor industry. Controlled by the communist unions. 'Out brothers out' because the teacups had vertical instead of horizontal stripes. No pride in the job. Even Jaguar engines were dropping valve seats, absolutely unheard of ! Cars built between 1976 & 1979 were always regarded as to be avoided. Incidentally, just a point I picked up on in your video, 'British Leyland' was created by the Thatcher government, which was elected in late 1979 with Sir Michael Edwards being appointed as CEO. Not in the late 1960s. I think that before then it was called BMC. I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong.
thought you would have to buy a new cam off rimmers and have it reground. the problem is going to be getting lift and timing right. interested in cam details. suppose it should be a high torque cam. look forward to a progress report.
My father and our garage mechanic did alter the some of the bits you mentioned abd the car ran much nicer it should have had fuel injection there was no need for the v8 thst straight was much better. And with the correct changes 170 bhp plus would have been possible
How can you have the six cylinder on exactly half of 303,345 cars? Did they make two half cars with an inline 3 and a V4, or did they make one seven-cylinder frankenstein?
Other than normal service stuff, the only fault I remember having to deal with on a 2.3 or 2.6 was a porus inlet port, which was welded up rather badly by a local engineering mob. Looked awful, worked OK though.
I had a 2600SE and the top end got tappety, fitted a V8. V8 Engine came complete with a car which only had one small exhaust box instead of the usual 3... You could hear it several blocks away. Replaced with an 825i which was bonkers fast at the time, another auto which would spin its wheels in 2nd if you floored it and reach almost 70mph in 2nd. 135mph allegedly approx 5000rpm? red lined at 7000rpm?
If you decide to go with a V8, go with the V8 that was in the Jensen Interceptor. There's no replacement for displacement when the motor in question is Chrysler's 440 CID (7.2 litre) Big Block V8 with a 4-bbl carburetor on top.
Weight is the issue with a BB Chrysler..a small block chevy has been done to sd1s in the past..I have one with a modified v8 rover...if I was going to install another engine..I'd go for a buick v6 turbo....from a grand national...very tunable engine..big power and as far as I know is 3.8ltr ..availability would be the issue...tuning parts wouldn't be...
@@feydespiel. Here's one for you: if you want to spend the money upgrading a motor, go with a caddy 500. All the displacement you want in an engine that only weighs 60# more than a Chevy 350. #1 issue with the caddy is the valve train. These motors so not like revving past 4000 rpm, but the torque these motors produce (especially the 70 model year(550 lb.ft) is nuts. Turbo this motor, and you'll easily get the torque like a Cummins 6.7 Turbo diesel
Had a 2.6 in the 1980s. Had to have the top end rebuilt twice due to oill starvation. A plastic valve in the head blocked but didn't know until the second time. Did not happen again. But was a good engine to drive being manual.
BL and Landrover screwed themselves by keeping old engine tech far to long. Even in the 1960's they should have licenced the Chevy 250cc and tuned that up, while developing better engines both 4 and 6 cylinder. Landrover survived despite the British automotive senior management attempts to eff it up and starve them of cash.
Triumph was designated to use the 2.5 block because they were not allowed to cast a new black,,,,, for financial reasons, for the 2500 replacements. When they were allowed for new block castings, dimensions made the bore/stroke capability able to go just over 3 liter for future upgrades. The standard hp design criteria was for at least 150hp, which they made with the 2600 version. Spen got control of design for the merger for rover/triumph and the 2600 was restricted to 135hp so it was restricted to less than the antiquated 3500 v8. Triumph also was trialing a sprint head for the p166 with factory hp of 200hp. Why Spen settled for the 3500 v8 instead of the 4.4 v8 is beyond reason, but probably economic as the 70's fuel crisis. ps when rebuilding your motor, get it balanced and blue printed, the heads gas flowed. Don't go too much for porting as the larger the ports, the lower the gas speed which may give a few maximum hp but lower torque in the mid range. Torque makes the engine more usable.
Considering the company had one of the most reliable V8 engines on the market the management of the day were much more interested in keeping their own little empires rather than producing profitable & reliable vehicles for the company! Knocking two cylinders of the V8 to produce a V6 would have been a simple change as it would keep all the good qualities of the V8 in an engine of 2.6 liters! that could have a reliable 125 BHP! The weight reduction over the Cast iron straight 6 would be significant and have had better weight balance! Similarly with the Triumph 2000 mk2 shell, TR7 & Stag should have been fitted with the V8 rover engine from the start rather than them making a complete hash of their own V8 engine! VW/AUDI took note and all their different makes and models all have the same set of engines in them!
In fact it was a spot on engine Need to look at rover sports Dont for get rove maucfactured for RR Rover was a power house and full of tech they were very advanced thats why BMW brought them if the poxy accountan did forec lean they would have never shutdown
If the engine had been perfect, the rest of the car was still made entirely of rust (in about 1 year), and assembled by - well - people who literally hated their management and employers. I was there. I watched them rot like Alka Seltzers. Great hope turning to great tragedy, in front of everyone. They were apocalyptically badly made. And it will always be a deeply sad period in the deeply sad demise of Britain’s car industry.
A few people have asked me how they can support the channel and the work I do on here, I don’t have memberships or a Patreon or any donation buttons etc but I have thought I do drink a lot of coffee during the week researching these videos.. so I’ve decided to create a buy me a coffee page where you can send a small amount to keep me caffeinated during my research!
Linked here: www.buymeacoffee.com/tomisdriving
proud owner of a 1981 2300 . done over 150,000 miles last owner had it 42 years I’ve had it 3 months and love it ! Good to see someone doing this as I’ve been thinking about tweaking mine . Also have a p5b coupe undergoing restoration
There is no getting around it. The SD1 was spot on with the 3.5 litre V8. Any other smaller engines just could not compete. If not for build quality the mighty SD1 3500 would have been so much better than it was.
We did a 2600 back in the early 90s as a track day car for a customer. Using a very similar set up to what you have got. Using a luminition electronic ignition lucas oil cooled coil and a pretty aggressive cam shaft made by kent it was making 240 bhp at wheels.
Cooling needed to be vastly uprated and he soon found the rear diff did not like it.
Dont know where you are. I am in lincolnshire but would be happy to donate some time to help if you are not a million miles away.
I think you mean final drive, DIFF’S never had a problem ever, if you ever knew what a diff was like most people don’t derrr 😅 Did it have a front diff? Derrr?.
Do you actually know what a DIFF is?
So many people don’t.
A final drive is a gear reduction and turns the drive through 90 degrees. There you go! The differential varies the drive to the inner and outer wheels on cornering! Simples! 😅
@@goffthomas2554 everyone I have ever known call them diffs. We know its purpose.
@@paulallen6915 It is still incorrect terminology, A final drive which is what it is, primarily a GEAR reduction, then turns the drive 90 degrees. The differential action is a MINOR function. That is what I was taught as an apprentice and at technical college, where I passed my national craftsman exam and technicians certificate. What qualifications do you have? Calling it a diff is incorrect!
@@goffthomas2554 I have a City & Guilds in mechanical engineering for four years and a master tech certificate from Ford. The qualifications are a moot point.
People say hoover, but we know its a vacuum. Its just easier than the long winded version. Lock the diff and get it on a greasy road and tell me it's a minor function.
The only time I have referred to a final drive was on a planetary type drive on Cat motor scrapers and earth movers.
@@paulallen6915 master tech in ford big deal I served my apprenticeship with a Rolls Royce dealership. A diff is not a final drive period
My uncle had a sd 2600 back in 1991 and let me have a go. I was newly passed my test and was driving a mini 850. My god did that car move and so comfy ❤
i had a couple of 2.6's. loved em. took one to Spain and back. averaged 20 mpg. awesome
I had a 3500SE when they were just a used car and it was the best car I ever owned. Good luck with your dream car and keep the updates coming.
I was given a 2600 in the early 80's with a blown head gasket.
It was simple to work on and drove beautifully.
In 1977, I attended a Leyland course on Sprints and Stags in Coventry. At that time, BL were testing a new car intended for release called the Lynx and I'm fairly sure the 2600 was referred to as the Lynx engine and was the power unit in the new car. It was being driven around the midlands with a box over it to disguise it and at that time, BL seemed to be pleased with the tests so far. I seem to remember that the cam lobes at the back of the head (No.6) were prone to breaking off between the two rear caps. I always thought the SD1, especially the V8, was a lovely car to drive fast and felt a lot more stable and safer in corners than the P6 but it never felt as good build and quality wise as the P6. The other thing I'll never forget is when a small group of us managed to sneak into one of the design drawing rooms and saw a drawing on a board for a TR8 2+2. We got caught and I thought we were going to be slung of off the course. Two guys from the plant went absolutely crazy at us but luckily, one of our group had the nerve to say to them "So which one of you forgot to lock the door, then?" and they calmed down a bit then. Fun times.
I do believe that the TR8 2 plus 2 was the Lynx.
I had a 2600 in the early 80s and found it an interesting drive as despite the odd starting problem I found the car a good drive especially with the slightly vintage feel from the gear box .
I never came across a troublesome 2600. I liked it a lot. I only got to drive them occasionally (company fleet) but one thing I did notice was what sweetheart the SD1 2600 was to drive on snow and ice. So smooth and controllable and a perfect complement to the long-nosed axle rear which allowed good traction but which could be overwhelmed by the V8's brutality.
I had a pair of side-draught Weber 40 DCOEs on my 2-litre full-rally-engined Fiat 131 - it was bonkers! You'll almost certainly need to get it on a dyno to get them jetted right, and invest in a set of vacuum gauges to keep them balanced. But the result - with the right cam - will have you grinning like a loon all day long! |Brakes and suspension will need to be upgraded next. Looking forward to seeing the progress...
You've just reminded me of my old 1.6 twin-cam mirafiori (spelling?). Used as a rallycross car in the late 80's & at the time I had free access to AvGas, so ran it 50/50 with pump fuel. Omg that thing used to rev like crazy, well past the red line!
@@wirdy1 - Yes! My 4-door Supermirafiori 1600TC began unmodified, but I too fell in love with that wonderful engine and decided I wanted more! I found a tuning company which ralleyed Fiats and they offered seriously breathed-on versions of either the 1800 TC or the 2000. I figured that because the Mirafiori Sport used the 2000 I’d go for that, but my, it was an animal! I later thought that less stroke and more revs could have been better for what was a daily driver, but I decided to accommodate the mad vibrations for the sake of the sheer power! It broke 2 competition clutches and 3 diffs, and I once had an indicated 140 mph out of it! It was also very thirsty and noisy, but I loved it!
Good feature, this was the last of the modern era OHC engines fully developed by BL / Triumph (okay the later ‘O’ series was an upgraded OHC ‘B’ series) and overall it was a success despite the power strangulation and daft cheapening like giving the base 2300 s a 4-speed gearbox. The Triumph 2000 / 2500 range with its old pushrod 6 could have been made for another year or so before their delayed replacement by the SD1 6 cyl models (kits were sent to Australia / New Zealand for a while) but the decision to retool the Canley factory for TR7s had been made. And the ‘O’ series of course later went into the SD1 to reinvent the “Rover 2000” model.
A friend worked as an apprentice mechanic in a Chester Leyland franchise, he said that doing the valve clearances was very tricky, I think there was similarity to the Dolomite Sprint setup.
When I started my first job as an engineer at Hoborn Eaton after leaving Uni in '79 I was fascinated by BMW's. With my first paycheck I bought an E12 528i auto on the never never. Well, everyone in managment at Hobourn drove Rover SD1's, that was the car that said you had arrived at the top, at least where I worked. On the first day driving my BMW into the works car park our chief executive was parking up his Blue SD1 Vitesse and watched me park. He came over to me and put his arm around me and I will never forget his words ' You're not going to get very far here driving a kraut wagon you know, get yourself a Rover, this German crap is never going to catch on.'
Had a 2600se was a good car just service regularly, gave engine a light overhaul and gas flowed head alot of material removed around exhaust valve guide as was very restricted at this point . Still had standard carbs and exhaust just tuned mixture and found it had power when revv'd past 4,000rpm where before it just revv'd up to red line also did 32mpg on trip from Swindon to Leeds to work for the week .
I had a 2600S as a company car for and it was very reliable. When it was due for change I bought it for my dad who ran it for years afterwards. The only issue he had was the ignition but it was an easy fix.
My dad had a 2600 manual, custard yellow, in launch year 1976 (R reg). Curiously, it had all round electric windows but no power steering and even at over 4 turns lock to lock was still heavy, especially manoeuvring / parking.
I liked the car, but not as much as the dark blue Triumph 2.5 PI Mk II auto (P reg) it replaced - I absolutely loved that car!
I had a Triumph 2.5 PI MK II overdrive as well in the past ... It was my BEST CAR EVER !!
@@robferwerda4376
It was a beautiful, stylish car inside and out!
I had a sd1 2600 had head skimmed race valves. Gearbox done loved that car only car I would have today if I had room
Thanks, I had a 2600 rover in the early 80s as a company car, it did over 100000 miles and I do not recall any real problems, maybe the engine had been partially sorted by then. It was quick enough but nothing special,very spacious and comfortable, but the back end bounced around a bit if you were too enthusiastic.
136BHP sadly though because of the neutering it was a bit gutless over 4000 RPM. Even in my short drives i noticed that.
@@tomdrives That is almost the same HP rating as my old 3l v6 capri I had back in my single days.
I have owned 8 BL cars and it angers me how the mainstream press slatted their cars in the day.just look at any classic car show now and see how many have survived or been restored. I have seen many metro MK1 and Allegro cars in great unrestored condition and being used as everyday transport.
My brother owned a Marina pickup, bare bones, no frills. Did over 300,000 miles with absolutely no issues. Perhaps South-African made BL was better quality than Pommie-built?
I remember a holiday with my parents around 1983 to Austria we rolled behind a German registered 3500 Vdp SD 1 with our ‚76 Citroen CX2200 Pallas . The 3500 pulled up the Kassel mountain very easy we walked behind with much throttle, downhill we came up and my dad showed me how you get the 200 kmh behind the lens although the Citroen was only known to go 182 kmh somehow the cream yellow Rover with the elderly lady had disappeared because it drove around at 130 kmh/82 miles constantly..
great story, two of my dream cars
Owned 3x 3500 in the 80's-90's. Fabulous cars. Always veered away from the 2600 personally due to perceived oil starvation issues.
It’s not the worst engine they made, because the truly unfit-for-purpose Triumph Stag existed.
Tom, don't listen to others, always go your own way.
Good luck, just subscribed.
Thanks Michael!
You're doing a brilliant job Tom, really got me into all of the BL, Rover, MG Rover history, of which I had little previous knowledge. I was born and brought up 4 miles from Longbridge 76 years ago, and most of my relatives, neighbours, schoolfiends etc. worked theres, so it's in the blood really. Half of me finds the fall of MG Rover intensely depressing and the other half finds it extremely interesting. I'm at present mid way through Mike Gould's book about Rover, and it contains so much relevant content that, when I've finished it, I think I'm going to have to go back to the beginning. Keep it going mate, essentially viewing. Congrats about saving the prototypes too.👍👍
I loved the 2.6 engine... Had a couple- including an auto- which curiously went like stink- more so than the manual !
Well maintained- a nice, smooth lump...
Had a few of these through my works in the late seventies and early eighties with head gasket issues. Due to over heating the heads would warp badly. So badly in fact, that if they were just re-faced, the camshafts would bind in the journals when the head was re-fitted to the block. To overcome this it was vital that they were re-faced on a vertical milling machine, once the head was pulled down flat to the mill bed, to ensure the cam journals stayed inline.
Very interesting vid. My mate had a 2600 many years ago and I thought it was great. I like straight 6's they are inherently smoother and balance than a V8 generally. It does make sense that they realised that a newly designed 2.6 would outpace a lazy American V8 so I think its logical that they nobbled these engines. I did a bit of work on a Triumph 2000 engines years ago, and what surprised me was how tiny and narrow the big ends were. Not much engineering margin there..
I served my time on those back in the 80s, The only problem with the cylinder heads was the oil restrictor in the cylinder block. It was designed with a one-way valve to retain some oil in the cylinder head. But used to carbon up very easily usually down to incorrect service intervals usually by the owner after a while, as a routine, we used to remove the pin out of the middle of the restrictor. After that, there were no more issues with them. They were a good engine. But a bit of a pain in the arse to set up on the bench, using all the individual shims taking the cam carrier on and off repeatedly
I owned one in the late 80's and had a string of problems with it including pulling up to a set of traffic lights after a 200 mile drive only to find it had a major misfire. It was only running properly on 2 cylinders because 4 cam lobes were completely round. I had to rebuilt the top end on the street to drive the 200 miles home using parts from a scrap yard.
Also had issues with the wiring loom causing it not to start. I had to wire in a new ballast resistor.
All in all, you putting a lot of work into a flawed engine. IE. It uses ONE cam lobe to operate BOTH the inlet and the exhaust valves so the valve timing will always be a compromise.
Tom, that’s a great project. I owned a 2600 for years and have an NG kit car with the 2600 engine but with a triple carb conversion. It was tuned on a dyno to get the SU needles set up. Still have the dyno sheet……somewhere! The tubular manifold should make a big difference. Thanks for sharing your project passion.
I'd be looking for a bump in compression if your going down the route of an upgraded camshaft. Matched to a good flowing head, itll really wake it up. If your not to bothered about originalty, id go wasted spark igntion only ecu control using some thing like a Mondeo v6 coilpack with appropriate leads.
Wrote my original comment during the first quarter of the video, those engine parts look huge! Good luck with the project and Merry Christmas!
I had a 4 cylinder 2 litre SD1 (Y reg) in the late 80s that I unfortunately wrote off running into the back of a Saab 900. So I bought a 2300 B reg. I was always a bit disappointed that the performance wasn’t greatly better and it had a gentle aroma of cigarettes and curry. I drove it well past 100,000 miles before I replaced it with an 820Si which was fantastic in comparison.
The few I came into contact with in the 80s had oil leak issues at the rear of the rocker shafts where they exited the head casting . If neglected for the service interval this could lead to low oil levels . My fix was to use a fibre washer under a steel repair washer and a bolt into the pre tapped hole already in the shaft to seal the shaft to head mating surface . Removal of the oil feed ball valve restrictor to,the head replacing with a fixed orifice would be a good move too . Rover metallurgy is excellent and this engine with its super strong bottom end screams turbocharger(s) injection & ITBs if the cylinder head issues can be resolved .
Your video is informative enough, mate. I think, the 2600 is nerfed by someone on BL's management because the Triumph design didn't accepted, because, you know, previous Chairman, Sir Donald Stokes, is a Triumph bloke. So maybe there's a hate in ex Triumph blokes that instead of Triumph, BL choose Rover.
But, I love the SD1s, even though where I live, Indonesia, we don't even have SD1. I love it first time when I see Jeremy Clarkson drive a 3500 SD1 on Top Gear's British Leyland Challenge. It was in the Covid period, 2020. Then I start to search about the SD1s, and then knowing there is a 2300 and 2600 even the 3900.
I just wanted to have at least one of each series of the SD1 here in Indonesia.
My Dad bought a Rover 2300 in 1979 it blew a cam cover gasket on its drive home from the dealership ! But i actually don't recall many engine issues after that (metal moth was another story though )
Just found your channel and looking forward to your build. I had a 2300 company car 1978-1980, had to return it as I moved abroad. The 2600 was above my pay grade! I remember it fondly as comfortable to drive, nice manual and clutch, and spacious but I had to reverse the driver seat mounts to suit my 6’4” frame, (which introduced me to the then new use of Torx fasteners). What it could have become with fuel injection, which was on my next Volvo.
Go for it. A Vitesse 2600 would be really great to see.
Good to hear Tom I had a 2.6VDP back in the day and always thought it could do more. Go for it fella i will be watching 👍
I owned several SD1 2300/2600 both bought as scrap in the eighties . Cam belt snapped,take the head off ,two new valves, correct shims, new cam belt, allsorted with a Haynes manual. One of em is still on the DVLA register (sorned)
My dad ran his 2300 on Rotella 30 all its life and it was a clean engine and never let us down.
I’m excited for the build. 👏👏👏👏
Same here Nick, it’s one I’ve always wanted to do.
I had a 2.6 SDI auto and had no mechanical problems whatsoever. The real problem I had was when a Cavalier driver's foot slipped off the clutch and nigh on demolished the back end.
His insurance paid for the repairs and as soon as it was done I sold it and bought a 5 Series BMW. That too was a six cylinder but it appeared smoother than the SDI. I sold the BMW when I was given a company Sierra. Now that was crap.
Good luck with developing the Rover - hope it turns out lots of fun..
My dad used to have an SD1 2600. The car was quite OK. The only problem he had with it was a blown head gasket, turning the car into a kind of steam locomotive.
I had a 2300 and later a 2600 never had a problem with them. There was a guy in the SD1 club who took one out to 2900 if memory serves me right it was bored out and he used pistons and rings from a Volvo 260 v6
Had a 2600 SE. With the carbs set up right it was a dream to drive. I Was told the Cast block was originally designed for a 6 cylinder truck engine
I was in the motor trade from 1978 until1995. My experience of triumph 4 and 6 cylinder engines was that the crankshafts were always weak.
Not enough or big enough main bearings. Also the crank thrust bearings were weak. You heard a strange noise when you pushed the clutch down. Sometimes the block was so damaged it was not possible to fit new thrusts. The 2000/2500 were a nice mooth engine, but the Pi was a disaster in both saloon and TR6. Many people took off the injection and put back a pair of SU's. As for Dolomites, in particular the Sprint, that was another problematic engine. They really went well and were fun to drive, but you could not keep a head gasket on them.
B. L. Abingdon competitions ran them with Tony Pond? at the helm. I replaced several dolly sprint head gaskets. Lousy job since the engine was at an angle you could not get the head off without removing the head studs. It was always a big problem to get them to unscrew from the block, as they corroded in the aluminium head. We used to hang the weight of the car on the head, nuts removed, and doused in WD40 and very often overnight the head would loosen and slide up the studs,sometimes not though. Then you struggled with it any which way until it came off. In the end when we had one to do we would go to Abingdon competition department at the old MG works and buy a competition head gasket and replacement studs. The studs differed from the originals which were coarse theaded both ends in that the top end had fine threads. The tightening torque and pattern was different. I must say I never did another sprint head job once the Abingdon kit was fitted. I don't know where anyone would get that kit now. Ah happy days.
The SD1 was before my time so I never really saw many on the road growing up,now after watching this video I’m intrigued and I’ve subscribed for more content,cheers fella happy new year to ya 👍😉💪
My Dad inherited my great aunt’s Rover 2600. I believe it was on as ‘S’ plate. She bought it new and I remember wondering how she drove it. It was heavy; heavy clutch and steering. I drove it when I was about 20 (30 years ago). It was mustard-coloured. I wonder if it still exists.
Excellent idea. Everyone likes an underdog. Why not go with a fuel injection inlet manifold with modern coil packs? A modern ECU such a Haltech ECU will mean you can work with modern parts and have ultimate control for tuning. It may be more expensive but it will guarantee you'll have the best Rover 6 cylinder EVER (until someone does it better)
Here in Australia, there was a car, that came, factory, with triple 40mm DCOE Weber's, and it produced 302 bhp, from 265 cubic inches- volumetric efficiency of 114%, roughly.
I also played, a lot, with a Toyota M-S, in my youth, which was a 120 cubic inch straight six, SOHC, with twin two-barrel Aisin carbs, it produced 139bhp, factory, once again, well above 100%v.e. Not quite sure what it produced, after I endowed it with six 1&1/4" SU's, and an MSD, but, in a 1050kg car, it did low 11-second quarter-miles.
Basically, mate, I wish you luck, as I have been having success with oddball engines, since I tinkered with my Austin Freeways' engine, when I was 12.
Export models featured the triumph 2600 engine rather that the rover 2600 engine and the rover 2600 engine was also used in the “Rover Freight”
Had two SD1’s in the ‘90’s both were 2.6, never had any trouble with either of them.
Great project, I'll be following. Happy New year!
I reckon its a fantastic project & due to health issues hope I'm around to see it completed. Back in 80's /90s was in used car trade & all models passed through my hands at sometime or other. Have always been a Rover guy at heart, right since my 1st P6 after passing my driving test at the tender age of 17. Never really had any problems with any of the SD1's. Its always been a disappointment to me how the British motoring journalists have always eager to soil the reputation of BL , Rover, MGR etc right up to the end. Head gaskets on K series is typical example. Vauxhall, Peugeot Fiat were all equally weak. In fact personal experience of a certain Tigra put me off vauxhall for life.
I wish you well in this project. This particular Rover was strangled from birth. Its great that there's young guy's like yourself Tom that are prepared to prove it.
Thank you Nick, I really appreciate the comment. Still in progress at the moment with a lot of parts bought.
@tomdrives
You're welcome Tom. I really am pleased that there's a few people like yourself. I think you see pretty much the same as myself.
Like the Princess couldn't have a hatch because of damage to Maxi sales. (Just one example, I could give you many)
You're doing a brilliant job of educating younger generations of what we had & how we lost it.
Like I said in my original comment I hope I'm still around to see the fruits of your labour with this particular car.
My rover SD1 did over 95k miles before head work required. The triumph 6 cylinder in the TR5,TR6 was an entirely different performing engine I had both.
I had both 2300 and 2600 sd1's with no problems, great engines, super smooth and plenty of tourque.
I had 2600 in the 90s and we used to run an oil designed for diesel engines as it contains a detergent to stop the oil ways clogging, the thing that puzzles me is why rover were so wedded to the v8 it's not the star people seam to think giving only 160 ish HP from 3.5 ltr when you got 140 HP from a four pot 2ltr Dolly sprint engine
cant wait to see the car running with the new mods, got me excited now
Don’t forget to drill a hole in the spare wheel well to let out all the water.
When I worked on these in the early 80s I’ve seen grown men cry tying to adjust the valance clearances after a head rebuild.
You need lots of shims and go easy on the RTV sealant the major cause of failure after rebuilding. 10 thou inlet 12 thou exhaust.
Reading through the comments regarding this engines 'suspect dropped liner issues'....get in touch with 'Lee from 'Barum Engines' in Barnstaple North Devon. He is a specialist in fitting top hat liners & machining to the now very old Cosworth YB block...
This would be your fix forever on your engine👌.
Good luck with the project Tom. Very interesting and I like your approach of making it the best it should have been for the road. New subscriber.
I often daydream of the SD1 and what it could have been with a organised union, good build quality and perhaps just borrow a small cube Buick V6 like they did the V8.
A shrunken SD1 to compete with cortina with a dolly engine also could have been a world beater. If only 🤷🏻♂️
Had a 2600 auto, positive was an engine with basic electrics and carbs, non of the modern electrics and emission devices. Negative for me was the adjustment of the valve clearance was a nightmare. If I remember mpg was about 35. The car could have been a winner if it wasn’t for poor materials used in the build, and an absolutely abysmal front suspension design. Poor bushings etc. They can’t have been that good, as I haven’t seen one on the road for years.
For a good starting point, you're going to see some good gains with port matching the cyl head to the ex and int manifolds, and some decent manifolding which you have to start with. The key is going to be In the detail of dialing it in, having fitted the hardware even with the stock cam and compression ratio of 9.2:1. Carbs are going to need rebuilding before fitting, then setting up on a rolling road to get the fuelling right. I'm not sure exactly what the stock advance curve is, but be very worthwhile seeing what it should be stock and what yours is giving. You're going to need region of 28 ish degrees total advance. If the stock setup is as poor as I believe go straight to a 3d programmable ignition system. You ought to get close to 160hp / 200nm without opening it up. Good luck
100% correct. Thanks a lot for the insight. Apparently this ran 190BHP rolling road with no other modifications but the head is getting ported as you mentioned. The aim is to eliminate all of the problems the engine had when it was released.
@@tomdrives you'll want in the region of 10.5:1, some porting, and a fairly juicy cam to see that kind of output, which won't end up being very street drivable due to the symmetrical cam design. You want to head in the direction of manners & torque than max power.
BL should have just modernised their A, B and C-type engines. The Japanese versions of these engines (Datsun) were excellent. Better quality, more power and better fuel economy.
They did with the A&B series. They being the A+ and the O,M,T-series. The C was too heavy for anything except a truck. Maybe the E6 could have been used in the SD1 but did it was designed to be an engine with the gearbox in the sump. It didn't do the 4-cyl R-series much good by fitting an end on gearbox. Thinking about it, between Rover and Triumph they had far too many engine designs to do the same job, and should have worked together and developed different sized engines to share between all models. Politics and Unions got in the way.
Really like your idea.
Can you go to dyno for power runs before and after.
Yes I’ll be doing that
I had a 2600 vdp which had it's issues. It had electric everything but buttons fired off the dash into the rear seats due to bulbs melting out the posts holding the button faces. Fiberoptic cables on the gear indication. My kids thought it was from star trek!
Great idea and interested to see how you do. I had a SAH tuned triumph 2000 with extraction manifold it went like a rocket but fuel vaporized when stationary and not easy to start to start as the engine bay was so hot.
Get a good oil cooler and larger core radiator.
Love your project, exciting times.
My cousin bought a used SD1 in the late 80s/early 90s when I was a kid - can’t recall if it was a 2300 or 2600 but it was an automatic in gold and had comfy seats - I recall my old man being super critical of it being an automatic (he’s always hated them!) and he was right as it was a lemon - probably as my cousin got it as a “bargain” 😮😂
I had an SD1 but it was the 3500. Great car to drive but build quality was dire! I look forward to seeing you tune up your 2600, should be good!
All cars in the 70s had bad build quality. All french cars,italian,american and yes german too.
They had their problems but they seemed pretty decent if regularly maintained - the police used quite a number of them alongside the 3.5 litre. They were fairly detuned in standard guise - presumably to as they would fairly comfortably produce similar outputs to the v8 - incidentally, also in a fairly low state of tune
V8 please. Beautiful engine.
I had one when they were new. A truly fantastic car with such a superb quiet engine, in my opinion it was a better car than the V8. Did ove 180,000 trouble free miles in it.
Question. Why the multiple images of the P76. Re the P76. the ohs 2.6 was okay, but the 4.4 was awesome. Sad to say as a young guy I broke four of them. My mate after driving his P76 and taking a photo of a 'Kornigsegg One' was told there are more Kornigsegg's in the UK than Leyland P76's.
The 2600 probably was a decent engine but fuel consumption was the same or actually worse (urban driving) than the V8.
Definitely make another video once you have done all of your modifications. It would be great to prove others wrong it is always the ultimate goal in life.
I will be Tim, it’ll be a series on the channel.
The 6 was never sold in Australia, SD1 V8 had enough problems here!
Can't wait to see how she runs, and looks. Lotsa luck to you, hope it goes super smooth. I bet it'll be beastly. What hp do you expect. I subscribed thats about all i can do at this point but i hope it helps.
Youre a brave young man. The old Rover SDI was absolute 'shite' (it's a motor trade term) and the reason why I have grey hair. The built quality was beyond rubbish, even the paint didn't stick to the bodywork and would become detached when the factory grease was steamed off prior to PDI.
Don't forget to clean or replace that horrible little non return oil valve in the top of the block !
I've subscribed so I can see your progress, NOT to say 'I told you so'.
Honestly, the SDI destroyed ROVER, it was such a crap car.
Anyway, good luck, you're gonna need it.
With my sincere respects.
Without a doubt the poor workmanship of the 77-81 models ruined their reputation but there was more at play.
Whot load shit frist one not to good mk2 was as good as any car in 80s u talk shit
I fully agree, bad workmanship, poor equity control, and the whole of the motor industry. Controlled by the communist unions. 'Out brothers out' because the teacups had vertical instead of horizontal stripes. No pride in the job. Even Jaguar engines were dropping valve seats, absolutely unheard of !
Cars built between 1976 & 1979 were always regarded as to be avoided. Incidentally, just a point I picked up on in your video, 'British Leyland' was created by the Thatcher government, which was elected in late 1979 with Sir Michael Edwards being appointed as CEO. Not in the late 1960s. I think that before then it was called BMC. I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong.
thought you would have to buy a new cam off rimmers and have it reground. the problem is going to be getting lift and timing right. interested in cam details. suppose it should be a high torque cam. look forward to a progress report.
My father and our garage mechanic did alter the some of the bits you mentioned abd the car ran much nicer it should have had fuel injection there was no need for the v8 thst straight was much better. And with the correct changes 170 bhp plus would have been possible
How can you have the six cylinder on exactly half of 303,345 cars? Did they make two half cars with an inline 3 and a V4, or did they make one seven-cylinder frankenstein?
i didnt even know these had a 6cly option !
Other than normal service stuff, the only fault I remember having to deal with on a 2.3 or 2.6 was a porus inlet port, which was welded up rather badly by a local engineering mob. Looked awful, worked OK though.
I had a 2600SE and the top end got tappety, fitted a V8. V8 Engine came complete with a car which only had one small exhaust box instead of the usual 3... You could hear it several blocks away.
Replaced with an 825i which was bonkers fast at the time, another auto which would spin its wheels in 2nd if you floored it and reach almost 70mph in 2nd.
135mph allegedly approx 5000rpm? red lined at 7000rpm?
Look forward to seeing how she performs after the updates.. 200 plus BHP?
I remember when these were new, and at the time the 2600 was thought to be better than either the 3500 or the 2300.
If you decide to go with a V8, go with the V8 that was in the Jensen Interceptor. There's no replacement for displacement when the motor in question is Chrysler's 440 CID (7.2 litre) Big Block V8 with a 4-bbl carburetor on top.
Weight is the issue with a BB Chrysler..a small block chevy has been done to sd1s in the past..I have one with a modified v8 rover...if I was going to install another engine..I'd go for a buick v6 turbo....from a grand national...very tunable engine..big power and as far as I know is 3.8ltr ..availability would be the issue...tuning parts wouldn't be...
@@feydespiel. Here's one for you: if you want to spend the money upgrading a motor, go with a caddy 500. All the displacement you want in an engine that only weighs 60# more than a Chevy 350.
#1 issue with the caddy is the valve train. These motors so not like revving past 4000 rpm, but the torque these motors produce (especially the 70 model year(550 lb.ft) is nuts. Turbo this motor, and you'll easily get the torque like a Cummins 6.7 Turbo diesel
Had a 2.6 in the 1980s. Had to have the top end rebuilt twice due to oill starvation. A plastic valve in the head blocked but didn't know until the second time. Did not happen again. But was a good engine to drive being manual.
BL and Landrover screwed themselves by keeping old engine tech far to long. Even in the 1960's they should have licenced the Chevy 250cc and tuned that up, while developing better engines both 4 and 6 cylinder. Landrover survived despite the British automotive senior management attempts to eff it up and starve them of cash.
Triumph was designated to use the 2.5 block because they were not allowed to cast a new black,,,,, for financial reasons, for the 2500 replacements.
When they were allowed for new block castings, dimensions made the bore/stroke capability able to go just over 3 liter for future upgrades.
The standard hp design criteria was for at least 150hp, which they made with the 2600 version.
Spen got control of design for the merger for rover/triumph and the 2600 was restricted to 135hp so it was restricted to less than the antiquated 3500 v8.
Triumph also was trialing a sprint head for the p166 with factory hp of 200hp.
Why Spen settled for the 3500 v8 instead of the 4.4 v8 is beyond reason, but probably economic as the 70's fuel crisis.
ps when rebuilding your motor, get it balanced and blue printed, the heads gas flowed.
Don't go too much for porting as the larger the ports, the lower the gas speed which may give a few maximum hp but lower torque in the mid range.
Torque makes the engine more usable.
Considering the company had one of the most reliable V8 engines on the market the management of the day were much more interested in keeping their own little empires rather than producing profitable & reliable vehicles for the company! Knocking two cylinders of the V8 to produce a V6 would have been a simple change as it would keep all the good qualities of the V8 in an engine of 2.6 liters! that could have a reliable 125 BHP! The weight reduction over the Cast iron straight 6 would be significant and have had better weight balance! Similarly with the Triumph 2000 mk2 shell, TR7 & Stag should have been fitted with the V8 rover engine from the start rather than them making a complete hash of their own V8 engine! VW/AUDI took note and all their different makes and models all have the same set of engines in them!
Ive never owned a British car, tell me, are they hard to push?
Well this one was I’ve pushed many. Funnily enough I see a lot more Japanese and German cars on the side of the road though.
You're kicking a$$ of late! Well done!!
Thanks Luke! Appreciate you being here
In fact it was a spot on engine
Need to look at rover sports
Dont for get rove maucfactured for RR
Rover was a power house and full of tech they were very advanced thats why BMW brought them if the poxy accountan did forec lean they would have never shutdown
If the engine had been perfect, the rest of the car was still made entirely of rust (in about 1 year), and assembled by - well - people who literally hated their management and employers.
I was there. I watched them rot like Alka Seltzers. Great hope turning to great tragedy, in front of everyone. They were apocalyptically badly made. And it will always be a deeply sad period in the deeply sad demise of Britain’s car industry.