Discussing Power Creep in Honkai: Star Rail and some opinions about where the game is going. Socials: Discord: / discord Twitter: x.com/_fl2ur_ #hsr #honkaistarrail
Powercreep in HSR is significantly higher than Genshin. I love firefly, so I paid my way to C2 + signature lightcone and she trivializes content for me. Ironically, just before that, I got Acheron and thought I'll never switch her out for SU because she is just so convenient to use. But they changed how SU works so I don't even need to use Acheron. lol But I still use my queen Jingliu.
as a 3+ years old genshin player I can say that I have never felt that I have to get that character or I'm doomed. People clear abyss 12 with ganyu or yoims to this day just fine And hsr.. if you don't have specific or new shiny character you suck. Hsr just forces you to pull a shit ton of characters and it is not like "without x char it will be hard but doable" it is like "you get x character or you get fucked". You can get Acheron and FF and brute force MOC but you still will suck in PF because it wants completely different chars which often perform way worse in other gamemodes. And illusion mode just sucks anyway
The worst part is, you CAN clear content with old characters. However, most people don’t have an idea of the amount of effort and resources you gotta pump into those old characters for them to even be viable, especially compared to the new characters. An old character and their team has to be at their peak investment to be even slightly comparable to a new character in their average investment, and that’s the problem with HSR’s powercreep that anyone that says “powercreep is not real because you can clear content with old characters” completely misses. Not even mentioning that, in order for an old dps character to be viable, you need the new broken supports since the old supports aren’t enough. Powercreep in this game doesn’t just fall on dps characters, it falls even worse on support characters.
Thankfully PF has herta/himeko destroying it, generally can get a team together with one/both of those that does 40k points for like 90% of PF variations. (You do need to have some variation of ruan/robin/sparkle though) Then you can slap together some garbage for 20k on the other side
I hate when someone says that "oh why do you care, its just a few extra jades". It's not about the rewards, it's about getting the full experience as a player, the way the game is intended to be experienced. If you're locked out of that just because you didn't pull for the new shiny character it's an issue. But players will eventually catch on and they will ask themselves "whats the point of grinding for hours or spending hundreads of dollars for a character just for them to be replaced a few months down the road". The characters are just too expensive for it to be okay that they just keep moving the goalpost in favor of whoever is the new release.
How I see this, Acheron is the breakpoint of the ''Chen alter era''(inflexion point of arknights powercreep) when they start shamelessly introducing new cashgrab units
@@memento6947 Even tho my favorite character was getting an alter(Jessica) I stopped before typhoon because I didn't wanna keep going on that scale, but my favorite character of Star Rail (xueyi) was never an option bc this Game feels unplayable for 4*s so I don't care that much,but yeah Xiaofen will be single target acheron, in 2months we'll have another unit that powercreeps her and over and over, noone can beat the fastest powercreep as Hanya(she was viable for 7days)
@@karuy988 honkai series has been notorious for the powercreep. i was thinking and i am surprised how genshin is better in terms of powercreeping. yes, they might be little stingy about the in-game rewards but at least they handle this matter way better.
Місяць тому
@@memento6947That and the fact that they made some 1.0 4 stars characters ridiculously strong and some of them are a core part of some teams (I'm talking about C6 4 stars and C0 5 stars level of investment here). I will take off field pyro that powercreep Xiangling in term of of pyro application any day tho (seriously the best off field pyro app we have are Xiangling and freaking Nahida + Pyro although that would make burning a lot less relevant so I guess that why it never happened yet)
i usually only pull for characters i like and right now even with an acheron with her sig LC and with pretty good stats im still suffering in end game cuz of the inflated hp on these enemies, it honestly pisses me off sometimes because back then, in 1.6 or 2.0 i could clear MoC or PF without any issues, skipped jade? boom, PF is insanely hard, skipped firefly? good luck ever clearing MoC again. i invested a lot into my IL too and he cant even keep up anymore as his damage compared to the newer characters is just not cutting it. i already gave up on MoC because of this a long time ago though. but it isnt fun anymore to use my fav dpses like clara or seele who i've mained since 1.0. but the new yunli did make clara's playstyle more fun which was what i enjoyed about clara, just sitting back and countering all the time. still though, imo your concerns are valid.
Ppl complaining that endgame content is so easy - they do hp inflation. Then ppl complaining why is endgame content so tough and struggle. Hm.. i feel so sad for them dealing with all of the wants of the entire community😢
@@chllwthlln2295 Oh come on now, stop defending the company. The HP inflation rate is absurd and you'd have to be blind to not see it. In March of this year, around 37000 damage was enough to dispatch a single trash mob in Pure Fiction. Now, in the latest refresh, a single soda dog enemy has 60000 health. And the next Pure Fiction after that is set to have soda dogs with 78000 health each. The rate of powercreep is astronomical for a game where leveling a single unit takes a very significant amount of time.
Earned a sub for keeping it real. Came to HSR recently (about 2 months ago now) and coming from other games like Limbus Company, Arknights, Girls Frontline, Kancolle, etc The powercreep in HSR is actually unreal. It's fast. Like it's insane to think that Gepard was once considered a premier sustain unit and then you compare hm to Fu Xuan, or, god forbid, Aventurine, and you can see why nobody wants to use him anymore. It's not just shield units either. It's EVERY role in this game. Bailu was considered amazing at launch, now you look at the upcoming Lingsha who basically just does everything Bailu does, plus more damage, more frequent heals, cleanses, and what do they actually lose to Bailu? A one time rez? Yeah Imma keep it real, the rez isn't outdoing all the other stuff Lingsha can just do as a base. EVen Feixiao. So good that she immediately toped tierlists. I have her. Everytime when I play her (like all the time) I'm forced to ask myself "okay she does assloads of damage, great. But did she REALLY need type-agnostic break on her ultimate to make her good?" and the answer is no. She just has that because of ?????? reasons. I've seen the defense that "well HSR is a gacha so the new character always needs to be better than previous characters" and that's a bad defense and it literally isn't even true. Best example, Limbus Company straight up doesn't have powercreep. Kits get more expansive, by a huge degree, too. But Rabbit Heathcliff, a day 1 ID, is still a top 3 unit. Nclair, a month 1 unit, is still top 5. You can have a gacha and avoid powercreep if you design your game with futureproofing in mind, sadly, HSR failed to do so. The main issue is that it stems from the games relative simplicity. Units have gotten more tools to their kits but they've never really become harder of easier to use. So the only real way to make them stand apart is to just feature creep the hell out of roles. Like Lingsha can straight up be built as a sub DPS for AOE damage. And she's an Abundance unit.
Good talk, I agree with this video. I'm someone that started in earnest during the original Kafka banner and just returned back to the game a few weeks ago after around a four-month hiatus. This latest Pure Fiction refresh really opened my eyes. It's genuinely dreadful to play with the dinos that have beefy toughness and the inflated HP pools of enemies are ridiculous. I checked the in-game lineup tool to see what people are using to fully clear it and quite literally 95%+ used Robin for one side. If not Robin then there was a near 100% chance of either Acheron or Firefly being used on side 1 or 2 respectively. My fully maxed out Serval with premium supports just simply does not clear anymore, even with full lightning weakness. Hoyo really just made Robin the single most broken unit in the entire game. She folds the game in half and makes all content exponentially easier because of how overtuned she is and how disgustingly effective the 100% teamwide action advance of her ult is. All of the 0-cyclers are playing around Robin's ult nowadays because it's so broken. Oh and she does significant damage herself because everything else she does just wasn't enough. And now content is being balanced around her. I was already aware of how egregious the character checks were before I returned to the game but I didn't expect character checks to actually become mandatory instead of just making it easier to full clear. I will play a while longer and see, and will also be keeping an extremely close and very critical eye on future characters and their subsequent beta versions. If this disgusting powercreep shows no signs of slowing down then I'll just drop the game entirely because endgame is all the reason I play the game for in the first place.
Good video, especially for a first attempt. When it comes to powercreep, characters getting stronger and stronger is inevitable, but what irritates me is how the content is so absurdly biased in favor of the new characters that if you don't have them or a character that works in a similar way, you're fighting a uphill battle. It's one thing for the new character to have an advantage to sell better and another for him to practically unlock easy mode and trivialize the content and I know this because as soon as I got Firefly *Apocalypse Shadow* became a joke with me just not getting all the stars because I don't have Ruam Mei
i used to chase "meta" at first, but then i realised i didn't enjoy playing star rail like that. i want to use my favourite characters so i started investing in them more and i accepted the fact that i won't clear everything and that's fine
my main problem with powercreep is how quickly it happens like every dps gets at most a few patches before they’re powercrept already (like not even a year) and at some point you feel forced to pull for newer units even if u don’t like them. the game is forcing u to pull for all types of units because if you don’t they’ll make a new gameplay mode that needs those units and you’ll probably suffer without them.. “just don’t do it” then what’s the point? hsr isn’t open world and we barely get any events and the story is doable in a few hours then it’s just 40 days of nothing until the next update. don’t get me started on how most dps units need their lcs or e1/e2 to also be good so it’s not just get e0s0 characters it’s get e0s1 and if possible go for e1/2s1 it’s getting ridiculous even as a low spender i can’t keep up
Thank you for talking about this issue. I'm a 4 year Genshin veteran myself and just recently I was able to clear Abyss 12 without problems with my C6 Noelle - I would talk about my Imaginarium Theatre experience as well but it's not as relevant - the point is, I can clear Genshin Endgame with my favorite characters just fine. I don't even have Arleccino or Neuvilette! I went into HSR with the same expectations, "If I build a team comp that caters around the enemies and buffs provided in this season, I'm sure I'll beat it if I don't have skill issue", that's what I thought. After Firefly released, I started to notice that this is not the case. I'm struggling a lot in endgame content just because I don't have Acheron, Robin or Firefly. I main Qingque and Kafka, and both are irrelevant in the current break meta. I feel forced to pull for Feixiao, but I won't give in. At least I'll try to. All the people/content creators who clear MoC etc. with only 4 star characters are my saviors because they give me hope that I do NOT need the new shiny OP support or dps. I just need to invest more recources into the characters that I own. Once those people can't beat the hardest content in the game with F2P characters, that's when I may drop the endgame content entirely because there's just no use. I won't pull for characters that I don't even want 😭
These games are all about the characters - while it's definitely frustrating sometimes that the favorites can't clear as well as others, at least there's always going to be some content that you can play them in(sim universe for example) to have fun with. Stick with the ones you want to play, don't give in 💪
Good comment. I love HSR and still do, but that is diminishing by the day. IMO the game was at its most fun around release all the way up until the release of version 2.0. They've added some significant QOL upgrades since but when it comes to balancing, everything has gone out of whack. Before version 2.0, you genuinely could consistently clear all the endgame with units that were invested well enough. Just about any unit worked really, that's why that notion sticks around nowadays. It used to be true, but no longer is, it just takes a long time for the public opinion to change. Acheron was the catalyst for all of this. She lit the great bonfire of powercreep and most units since have just been adding fuel to the fire. Robin most specifically is the single most overpowered and overtuned character in the entire game. She supersedes every single support that came before her in every single scenario with the sole exceptions being a full break effect team, DHIL team or Acheron < E2 teams. But in every single other scenario she effortlessly beats other supports. Even Sparkle, who is supposed to be THE limited hyper carry support, gets dunked on by Robin. And it's not getting better, in fact it may even be accelerating. In March of this year, around 37000 damage was enough to dispatch a trash mob in floor 4 of Pure Fiction. In the current refresh, a single soda dog enemy has around 60000 health. And from what has been shown in the beta versions, the next Pure Fiction refresh is set to have soda dogs with 78000 health each. I have a fully invested Serval with premium supports and for the first time she was not able to clear a side with full lightning weakness. 24500 points (out of 30000) was the absolute best I could get. Endgame is the reason I play long-term and level my units. But if the powercreep continues unabated then I will quit sooner or later. I will be keeping a very close eye on Sunday and his subsequent beta versions. If they genuinely make him "Robin-tier" in terms of buffs and just as, or even more broken than her, then I will know that this game's powercreep issues will only get exponentially worse.
Don't force yourself and don't pull for Neuvilette. He is first on the powercrept map. I play star rail from beginning now as a new player and if I don't level up the world or something I can always clear main missions. The spiral abyss, towers of challenge and other crap things are just for bored people. They don't contain any story and are cash grab content. I don't respect 36* players more than others, because it's just a game. Even more I have them for no life's who do the trash content. Yes Spiral Abyss is A TRASH, and they are using it as replacement for real content like archon quest. If you 36* you are trash in homeless vagrant.
I'll say what i always say about powercreep in gachas, as long as content is doable without said powercreep and theres no direct competition between players(pvp or score based raids with much better rewards for higher places), then i'm fine with it, let whales have fun with their new toys, right now in HSR, that remains true, ive seen people using some of the wildest shit to clear moc/pf/AS, including dan heng(the 4 star) main dps, i can confidently say ive seen almost every character, except arlan(rip), being used by someone to clear endgame stuff.
guess what, someone made arlan zero cycle clear video for moc 12 lol. But putting that thing aside, it's the feeling of how the new units are more fun to play and have better synergy with each other compared to older (hypercarry) that make people freak out... imo.
Everything being doable is a reach. Most of those 4 stars are at E6 and have some really good relics. Where the newest DPS can be strong without the farm of crazy relic stats ,also supports like Robin and Ruan Mei are a game changer. Also its heavy rng based to win with 4* or outdated DPS characters.
Honestly the thing is that basically all stages below 10 on moc are just clearable with even older units is what I’ve realized. But it’s just that 11 and 12 have such overturned enemies you really really need the new shiny dps or else you won’t make it
And superbreak was most definitely the turning point where shit got blown out the park. And honestly I don’t see a way on how we can return to the previous state of how things were unless the devs just nerf superbreak somehow.
I WAS LITERALLY THINKING ABOUT THIS MYSELF. I got both firefly and acheron and they're really strong but it feels so disappointing not being able to use blade and jing liu in moc's and stuff. I pulled for both of them same reason as you, I thought they were cool asf and pulled for them. It just feels pointless to use them in moc when i can use firefly and acheron for it instead. I did read that one really long comment and I do believe there is a need for some sort of hp support that can buff blade. All in all what I'll say is ig we'll just have to be a little more patient if we wanna see those old dps's shine in the spotlight again. I could be coping on that idk. Until then ig we just have to go with this meta. (P.S im not the brightest when it comes to meta discussions and what not so do forgive me if there's anything that made you question "is this guy fr")
Some points 1st. For why Jingliu and Blade fell off,its more because of them by design and not really because of power creep, like Jingliu have so many self buffs but with bad scalings that if some one with better scalings is out,its very easy to out damage Jingliu and Blade because there just no support that works for his gimmick. Most if not all units are made with a very large weakness so whoever is meta is often down to which is the easiest to circumvent like Firefly just need to dodge weakness lock enemies or Acheron need debuffs teamates while Blade need HP buffs supports (there are none) or Jingliu needs a lot of % dmg(which is somewhat rare) because she's self sufficient with crit and atk, while someone like Jing Yuan who basically works with everything under the sun gets better every patch (he's not meta but he can still catch up) 2nd. Its not really the dps that breaks the game, its the support and what dps works well with which support will decides who will be meta. For example the current best support are Ruan Mei and Robin and the reason why Break and Fua teams are so good rn is because they synergizes with those support (Acheron is Acheron ignore that) meanwhile HyperCrit had Sparkle which isnt as good as the 2 above which is why someone like DHIL fell off 3rd. MoC gets inflated HP counts is only partly because of power creep, its also because people just have more built unit, a Jing Yuan's 10 stack Lightning Lord used to only deal like 30-40k dmg but now a properly built JY with that exact team from 1.0 can now hit for like 100-150k because the units got better relics etc and while powercreep is still the major factor for HP inflation, players getting better at the game also contributed to this 4th. As for why there isnt a strictly single target mode for Hunt unit, of the currently limited hunts half of them need some trash mob to reach their full potential (Seele and Boot) and Topaz has been more less relegated into a support for followup than a true carry 5th. As for why super break is in the game, just ask yourself does any unit build break effect before it, like its in the game so there are more variety in the game options, albeit they are too strong for what its worth but still variety is good 6th. MoC doesnt have HP increase that drastically if its doubled after 1 year thats like 8% increase each month which isnt the worst, it'll took like 2-3 month to have them inflated enough that you'll need whole another cycle to win. Assuming your you took like 6 total cycle to clear 1 MoC, it will take an entire year for your DPS to truly fell off assuming no new relics sets or new support release that helps with clearing MoC In no way im defending powercreep but currently Hoyo is expanding the game with content catered to the new stuff like MoC's memory turbulence. While blatant, its not as bad as like "if i use A it'll be the same as im slamming my head to a wall" after a few months Side note: you mentioned FGO and why you dont feel power creep in that game is very simple,Castoria release during 5th anniversary touched the ceiling of power which means its impossible to go further anymore
Hey, I appreciate the long reply! Just some quick thoughts on my own - 2. Totally agree that supports are part of the problem, but imo you also need to look at which DPS work best with those supports - The supports themselves are mostly universal, so if DPS A works better than DPS B(Ratio/Topaz making better use of Robin than someone like Imbibitor Dan heng is a good example), then I'd say that's a problem in itself. 3 & 6. Definitely true that we as players have gotten stronger since 1.0, but I feel since moc12 has released, I can't say it's been to a massive extent unless you've been specifically farming for one character(or got lucky with relic drops). Also, I really only expect the MOC hp to increase further in the next few patches, which is concerning. 5. Break wasn't an amazing stat before, but it was utilized in niche scenarios depending on the player's state in the game(break is relatively strong early game, you could look at Lily Aquina's older videos to see that) but also with certain character's kits like Ruan Mei. Remember - Ruan was released in 1.6 before superbreak was added. They just as easily could've made a dps back then that scaled on BE instead. Lastly, yeah castoria is giga busted, but the game is entirely clearable without her - a content creator in the fgo space(Honako Green) even made his channel around clearing with 1-3 stars only. In terms of how this relates to HSR, as mentioned in @singleplayer9773 's comment below though, its feels less fun to use older hypercarry units in HSR, whereas it doesn't really in FGO. Thanks again for the response, always fun to talk about this stuff!
Jingliu has insane scalings, ie acheron has around 1600% after all her buffs while jingliu has about 700% from her enhanced. The real problem is because she can't stack buffs like for example if you use bronya her bis partner you only buff 1 of 2 turns which makes her have very inconsistent damage.
@@fl2ur Yeah. FGO surprisingly keep powercreep in check well, despite Servants kit only comprise of buffs and debuffs. Well, it's also helps that Servants get direct buffs and the traits and class system make niches extremely powerful. Like top DPS Servants is not gonna brute force through class disadvantage. And weaker Servants can outclass top Servants if class and trait lineup.
i debated the Jingliu conundrum myself recently given has the problem of soo much inflated stats while hitting like a wet noodle scalings wise. it worked back in 1.4 cuz we didnt have the means to inflate any dps stats like that externally but now her weak multipliers show how do we fix that? simple GIVE HER A SHENHE if you play genshin you know what i mean (also ironic cuz she ice hehe) give her a support that adds additional external scaling to her instead of a plethora of buffs that get watered down by her insane self buffs. have them build like only attack and then let her share a % of that as flat dmg to jingliu where she can multiply that flat dmg with her insane stats instead of trying to make her awful multipliers better with even more busted supports that end up buffing everyone else instead
Yea it’s like Robin. It’s why FUA Teams are so lucky to have a support that increase their damage without being reduced by the DPSs own multipliers. 100k dmg FUA? Here’s Robin adding her own attack to your attack so you get from 3k Atk to 5.5k ATK so now go do 130k dmg, and also, here’s an unscaled bonus damage that adds flat 15k to everyone’s attacks! Robin is insane
I just started HSR like one week ago. I have really looked into the power creep issue, because I don't want to get stuck in the story. I don't care about end-game or whatever the Abyss is called in HSR. If I am only doing the story and side quests, do I really need to chase META? Genuinely curious. The concern comes from me joining the game for characters I like: Blade, Kafka, Silver Wolf, Ruan Mei, Firefly, Dan Heng, Himeko, and March 7 because I like them. But I don't want to think that by the end of the year, none of these characters are going to be strong enough to actually clear the story. I don't want to have to only pull for META characters - I got on that train for Genshin and have since gotten off it because I have way more fun playing playing who I like. I guess I'm hoping HSR isn't the same.
Hey, thanks for watching the video! I'd say that while there's definitely power creep, the "average" player would probably still be able to clear some of the end game content, even on auto. In my opinion, most of the "need to get" characters are ones that support your favorites, like getting sparkle for Dan Heng IL/Jing Yuan or Ruan Mei for Firefly. Just because Character A does 2x the damage of Character B doesn't mean you're forced to get them if you don't do the content that requires that level of damage(end game/abyss). Any character can clear the base story content as long as you invest enough in them, and if you don't want to learn how to play the characters(like, you're just here for story) then auto can take care of that for you. That's just my opinions though - Hope you enjoy your time playing HSR, it's a fun ride!
@@fl2ur I really appreciate the feedback. It's helping me navigate a stacked banner like the current one: Feixiao, Robin, Kafka and Black Swan... oof. :P I landed on Robin as the more universal support for my teams.
How was the game? I pulled Yunli and I struggled to get past the story, had to literally stop the game and farm traces. After Feixiao and Robin not even a little bit.
@@IgnasV So far so good. Like you, I've had to stop and farm at level 40, 50 and now 60. The issue isn't that I have "bad" characters, it's that I wasn't building them enough - so, my original concern hasn't come true yet. Even some of the new META characters like Sparkle and Lingsha who are on my account, don't necessarily help earlier on - in fact unless you level them right away, I don't have access to their bosses yet. Moreover, I currently do not have a team capable of defeating Lingsha's farming boss - that T-Rex thing. :P I've been patient and it's been rewarding so far knowing I can clear with the characters I have once they're built a little. I am however going to stop ascending my equilibrium level so I can make sure the characters I like are strong enough for what lies ahead.
the things that I don't use or only very rarely bronya, dr ratio, yanqing, topaz, himeko, clara, welt, fu xuan, jingliu, robin and yunli but she didn't get to shine yet due to not being build and I'm F2P still somehow but I'm super lucky on the other side
Honestly I feel like the only thing that helps break the cycle of power creep really is high vertical investment. The game evolves in a way that leaves E0 5 stars behind eventually, but not E2 or above. I have a friend that still plays Seele but that’s only because she’s E6. Similarly how committing to making a strong DoT team will take you far. Kinda sucks it’s like that unfortunately.
The thing is. All modes are made for the strongest character in HSR. Hoyo puts effort in making buffs and mechanics of the enemies but in the end everything is just easily beated by the TOP DPS and Supports independent of the fight. Example: - Aventurine Boss came it out and he's destruction/ BURST erudition benefit Boss and Hunt counter, his mechanics was pretty good in punish Hunt until Boothill came and now Feixiao. Why, just why the mechanics are not followed!? Boothill just obliterate the tenacity bar of Aventurine and Feixiao too, they just insta kill him giving a fuck to "mechanics". And this type of mechanics are also really ridiculous, like, need more niche ones, normally is: "Better destruction/Worse Nihility" but if is just this, obviously the powercreep will corrupt, need more like: "High amount of Hits + Erudition/ Hunt + Nuke". Making the viable type of characters for each challenge more diverse and niche will make less powercreep because Acheron/FF/Boothill are not universal usable.
Worst powrcreeps I've ever experienced. Atleast Mlynar and Chenalter took a year to have someone get close to their power, Junao still one of the best buster looper. On this game, literally just 1-3 patches. It's like watching your favorite gacha getting slaughtered by devs themselves before your eyes.
it's not just endgame getting harder. it's also even story getting harder. Good luck defeating Aventurine or Sunday with sustains that released before Fu Xuan. And since you mentioned leaks, I also wanna add these two leaks that supports your point: 1) they are gonna release Tingyun again. And her kit is just Harmony mc powercrept. There is literally nothing else in her kit. It's same example you give in video with Gallaghar. 2) they are gonna release new enemy for endgame that has 500 speed. And that boss have mechanic that you need to attack twice as much than him or else you are not gonna defeat him easily. You gain 1 stack per attack, he gains 2 stack per attack and he always attack 2 time at least. And don't forget 500 speed part. The only thing that beats this mechanic is Aventurine + Feixio. There is literally no other character that beats his mechanic. Good luck beating him. And btw, Feixio is the only current that can 0 cycle that boss with same investment at best teams. Firefly is 1 cycle and Archeron is 2 cycle. 3) let me add salt to your wounds. You already told that they introduced Superbreak and it overused, you must use that mechanic and all characters that use that mechanic are absolute beast compared to older characters, right? They are gonna introduce new meta in 3.x and this cycle gonna repeat itself. And boy, according to leaks, 3 of 4 character gonna be destruction. This powercrept not even funny anymore.
True lol, I had to farm traces for a week to beat Aventurine and that's with me having Yunli. After getting Robin and Feixiao the story wasn't hard anymore, despite them not being built at the time. Ooohh, if TingYun superbreak is coming I might want to consider Lingsha. Luckly for me I haven't experienced my units getting powercrept yet, but I probably will within a few months.
Interesting to hear your thoughts on power creep! I'm going to use Dan Heng IL for endgame content until the end of the game. If there ever comes a time where I can't anymore, then I'll quit. I will be grabbing his e2 on his rerun, and any good supports that have synergy with him. Currently, his team is clearing everything but pure fiction no problem (since he's not really meant for PF). I am pretty lucky that I like both Acheron and Firefly though, so I usually have a second strong team.
I play genshin sice day one and I still use Klee monopyro for fun to clear abyss 12. Meanwhile in HSR I love JingYuan/JingLiu/Seele but it's so hard to make it work, yeah, you can make it work, you can 0 cycle moc 12 with even Yanqing... if you have an specific character with 167 speed with x set that will only be useful on that specific fight and your yanqing needs x speed with a Sparkle with 162 speed and no healer to buff as much damage as you can and hit the Yanqing FUA freeze and your Robin needs to take at least 2 hits from the enemy so she gets enough energy to use ultimate........ It's some crazy stuff... yeah that's for 0 cycle, but the normal clear is still as bad.
At this point they will need to give an upgrade to those old units,because nobody will summon for them on their rerun. Something like awaking or skill/talent upgrades .
I tjink it would be cool if they made a new gamemode that’s like “house of memories” or whatever where there’s like a section for a select meta, like you cna only use 1.0 characters in one, only 1.0-2.0 characters in the next, and so on so on
Im a day 1 player that quit around 1.2 after losing a 50/50 and now I came back on 2.4. My account level was already 65 so now the content difficulty has increased so much I can barely clear early floors of MoC. The game is actually so unfun trying to brute force everything with seele and jing yuan. Did 1 ten pull when I came back on jade (clueless) and bricked my account. It feels like it'd be better to start from scratch than grind to keep up at this rate. Took a year off genshin at the same time and could still 36 star the abyss although it was definetly harder, but difference in difficulty is staggering.
If it makes it a bit better, Jade is very good in Pure Fiction - MoC isn't everything. That said, nothing wrong with restarting if that's what will make you feel better in terms of making progress.
@@averagemilkconsumer The only ones I struggled as new player were Cocolia, Yanqing and Aventurine, interesting that you the ones that were hard were the opposite ones. To be fair almost losing feels so much better, winning at last hit hp remaining is so satisfying. Especially with epic music like I did with Cocolia.
Yeah, i hate it. Especially since aventurine its just gone downhill. So many enemies nowadays just onehit any carry thats not 100% hp, even with fu xuan you sometimes have to perma skill to sustain your team with ults. My main team is DoT and its just rough, you either bring the exact counters to the enemies or you wont get max stars, especially those new bosses like Sam or aventurine, you cant just bring any high investment team, you have to bring the exact counters or heavy meta like ff or Acheron. After all that comes the fact that the buffs just ignore half the characters. You get super break, follow-up and ultimate, dot buff is super rare and mostly only in pure fiction. Especially in the new game mode bringing dot is just int, even with ruan mei, you can't break fast enough, and when you do, you dont deal any burst dmg in the down window. Acheron, ff and feixiao at E0 all do the same dmg as an E2 jingliu. With their benefit being they either ignore gimmicks or simple have so much break efficiency in their kit for break enemies permanently. Forget Seele.....she is just worse everywhere. And the problem is, they can hardly even undo this with new units.....any support that pushes characters like blade and jingliu back to the same level, is either so broken that the already broken characters can abuse them as well, or be too niche to really be worth it over just getting more eidolons. So the only way they can undo it at this point is to do a balance patch to buff all aged units, and stop with the gimmick mechanics that artificially make them even worse. We all know hoyo will never do that though.....at least feixiao can make use of my seele LC :/
I think its good to have hard content. But its the feeling of gameplay and the long forced metas. I dont care if I miss the last star because I use units I like...but when the enemies and mechanics of the fight force my units to not be played like they should...its frustrating. Make enemies broken...but remove artifical effects and other stuff that makes your units displeasing to use because they cant function proberly. And yeah...I skipped Ruan Mei, Adventurine, Acheron, Firefly, Robin and Boothill on purpose. I refuse to feel forced to play something I dont like...and break for example feels terrible...your team does everything once an enemy is broken...but does close to nothing before that happens...it just feels wrong and badly designed.
I started playing at the beginning of 2.0, so I was able to kind of dodge the misfortune of watching older units get benched, and even then I also got affected by the increase in powercreep because I couldn't get Firefly and without a single fire character at hand that Cocolia in Apoc was literally impossible to clear in level 3. Another thing people don't mention much regarding powercreep are the Lightcones. You either get the character's signature because it is too busted not to, a gacha one BUT only at S5 for it to compete, or you get screwed because the free choices are trash/you only get one. Being forced to play Acheron with Fermata feels like you're just straight up losing half of her potential damage. And don't even get me started on the Harmony ones. At this point I accepted it's just not worth to invest too much of my time in this game seeing the direction the devs are taking. I'm content with just clearing MoC at 34 and PF at 11 even if it means I'm losing out on rewards. Thankfully that also frees me from the pressure of pulling for meta units like Feixiao, and instead focus on getting characters I actually enjoy, like Kafka or Fu Xuan.
I am not disagreeing with the video but i feel like the dpses can still be used to clear content like I have used DHIL from 1.3 to now and he has cleared almost every moc and every AS for me
First of all, just wanted to say I think you have good potential for content if you keep up interesting/highly contentious topics like this. Now, with that out of the way, I'm gonna get critical of your opinion. It is a gacha game, ALL gacha games have some degree of powercreep, even if it's less than HSR, they all have it. GI had a lot of "mistake" characters, particularly in the 4* slots that lost Hoyo TONS of money. BUT, in general, GI is not a game where the vast majority of players care about endgame and meta. It's a game about collecting your favorite characters and exploring w some cool lore. HSR is a turn-based game, meaning strategy is much more at the forefront, even for more casual gamers. Most of us played Pokemon and we know that even tho it is simple, there's a lot of depth there, just like HSR. So, in order to see new units and new strategies, power must come with that. And tbh, it's really not that extreme. Jingliu can still be used, same with Blade, same with Seele. It just requires good supports and higher relic quality than when they first released. And let's take Yunli as the closest example we have gotten to a character that has truly powercrept someone else, being Clara. Clara is still usable, just not as good as Yunli. Everyone thought Sparkle was just a better Bronya, but Bronya still has plenty of comps where she's favored over Sparkle, for example Boothill teams. The worst limited DPS in the game being Jingyuan, according to most ppl, can still clear MoC12. And if when 3.0 comes out and it comes to the point where we truly do have a unit that is just a better Bronya, then that's fine to me because that took over 2 years to get there. Next thing, and you're guilty of this like most ppl, "Hunt is bad because it's single target in a 2+ enemy game." No, just no. Dr. Ratio during his release, Boothill and now Feixiao have proven time and time again. Having a strong single target DPS is great to deal with elites and now AS bosses. They melt their toughness bars and take less turns OR are more synergistic with a team around them to have multiple DPS doing damage and killing the enemy. Firefly is not better than Boothill. Acheron is not better than Feixiao. These are just incorrect takes made by the community at large. They are typically harder to play, but they clear just as fast as Destruction and Erudition units in MoC and AS content. Lastly, you talk about this perceived problem, but don't really have a take on how you would like to see it fixed, so you're kind of just bitching and haven't gotten beyond that step. If you think there is a problem, tell us how you would fix it or what you like to see changed. Sorry for the yap, but I think it's good criticism for an early days CC like yourself.
@nikonFB1988 Hey, I appreciate the long response The point of this video, while it mightve come across as bitching, was mostly just a "get my thoughts out there" type video. It was just a simple rant about how I felt/feel about the state of the game and the fact that using my favorites isn't as viable as it once was. Yes, powercreep is normal in gacha games, but the extent and speed that it's happening at for hsr is where the issue lies. While characters are still usable, being "usable" isn't really that fun when you look at how other units that might not be a favorite can clear much easier simply because hoyo decided to give them a better designed kit. If you're interested, I do have other videos that I've made since this one where I do actually talk about my experience in other gacha games and give some of my thoughts as to how things can be different when compared to hsr. They're more like discussion videos than this one, which was definitely more ranty. The "Should characters be buffed" video is one example, and the video I uploaded just yesterday is another. Appreciate the feedback, always looking to improve 🫡
i have a more casual approach to HSR, i feel like chasing the meta in this game is quite tiresome. i just enjoy the story and chase after my own goals.
Tbh its not about the dps characters but the supports and its very obvious. If you have all the supports you are good to go. If i could go back in time I wouldn't get Acheron and FF cause its not worth it, I would rather just get Robin E1 + Ruan Mei E1 its not even close in terms of value tbh.
I just know, the moment im not even longer avalible to full clear any endgame content, 1 single time im droping the game. Im playing from 1st day, and barely have 2 limited lightcones (seele and fuxuan, yeah, almost like barely have just 1 and 0 in AS) and mising 12 characters(and no dupes) i got luck and got acheron out of nowhere, and she hard carry me a long time even though i dont give a sheet about her(she ruin my pity....) But dang, the game powercreep + buffs in AS become just soo freaking absurdly opresive for me, that seems like soon is not gonna make any sense keep playing into this each time deeper hp ocean, where only the newest characters can have a go and be usefull.... And yet, you gotta pray againt rng to dont get stuns in 5 random strikes(cocolia) in a row or an AoE attack that can take almost half you team life, and, may or may not stun your entire team out of nowhere each turn(idk who the hell though those 💩 bosses mechanics were something even closer to be "fun" to play againts) ...
Dang SW become soo useless that in this AS devs dont even code his implant right, and you can implant imaginary weakness in the enemies when they already have imaginary weakness....😂😂😂
JUST MY OPINION! these "powercreep talk" is pointless first of all since the start of gacha games powercreep is already there because it's the only way they can earn money and if it's not feel free to tell in what way a gacha game can earn money consistently for a gacha game to prolong its service, and before someone says why im here when i said it's pointless talking about powercreep i just want to see the perspective other towards powercreep. and if you say powercreep in hsr is so bad omg you haven't seen the true powercreep in other gacha games
This.. They haven't play gacha games with crazy power creep.. I actually like hoyo ways of doing it.. I've played Final Fantasy Brave Exvius for the longest time.. BUT.. That game has crazy powercreep, and extremely awful way of farming.. But still thriving.. Nowadays, if you use the of 5 stars, you won't be able to even deal dmg without getting one shot..
Great video and sub too! Yeah this game is so P2W (or be incredibly lucky) if you actually want to 100% every content there is and it can be quite frustrating but as you said maybe the last jades isn’t that worth it lol
Genshin would say otherwise. Took 3 years for the game to actually increase the power of top units with Fontaine. Even then it wasnt so high to where past metas "fell off" completely
And yet Genshin's year1 fourstars are still ones of the comfiest characters to clear endgame. They have their specialties, XQ for interrupt resist and high hydro app, XL for heavily pyro-demanding fights, bennett and so on. Literally different here where you use Arlan and Hook and it's instantly cope. Atleast Serval is famous of her bouncing BA and being an ult spammer, but on fights where you need those, they require ST damage which is her very weakness.
When you have an opinion on something, I've always believed it's better to speak up - and this is my way of doing so. It's not really any different than someone saying "I think it sucks that we don't have a room in the astral express to decorate" in a survey.
It's like either c6 your favorite character, or good luck using them in the end game in the future. I had to bend and get Jade and Firefly, because I've hit a wall in the endgame content. I didn't completely got them blind. Himeko wasn't build yet, and I had best team for Firefly already, she can also add her own fire weakness. Jade also works with Blade(cope) and Hetra, and I needed a quantum unit, because I didn't had any. I don't regret pulling them now, because I did complete fan fiction, moc and apocalyptic shadow, so i see this as a investment of a sort.. but the fact that I was planing on skipping them in the beginning, and now expecting them to be useless down the line, kinda erks me. If you don't plan well, you might end up being stuck in a long run.
@maxwellfolina8358 It still is. Being able to use a weaker unit doesn't mean there's a lack of challenge, just that the options you have are more varied. For example, one of my favorites is a 3* unit. While I could clear a difficult stage in less turns with a 5* unit, if I develop a strategy then I can clear with that 3* because I invested more in them using the in game items. It might take 1-2 more turns because the 5* has better skills, but that 1-2 turns isn't enough to make or break any kind of clear
arknights will forever be the only gacha game I know where powercreep really isn't an issue, as it doesn't have any timer-based endgame. There is a timer? Fuck that shit immediately. As soon as there is timer, there is a dps ceiling. Wherever there is a dps ceiling, there is this stupid never-ending cycle of new characters doing more and more damage. If your only way to introduce difficulty into the game is bloating the stats, your game is poorly designed garbage. It might have the best story, best music, but I'm talking about game design.
I'm sure you don't intend, but your wording really gives off "the content is impossible" without these new powercrept characters. I'm a new player, just dipping my toes into the start of hardcore content and I've being following guides and learning alot from 4 star only guides and yes they can clear the highest. It for sure isn't impossible, but sure is harder lol. Won't deny it trivializes content, but it's all up the player to decide how to play, you could still be using your beloved characters you talked about in the latest content if you really tried, but you've simply decided that you don't want to, for whatever reason be it lazyness/convenience idk. If there was content that was downright impossible 100% without 5stars is when I'd start calling it a piece of shit game. But, it's not? atleast from what I've seen when looking up guides...
Hey, appreciate the reply with your thoughts! I wouldnt say that the content is impossible for those characters(yet), but my point was more that older units don't feel as fun to use - yes you can brute force clear with most units but when the game is being designed around the newer units it makes the older ones seem out of place in comparison without an extreme amount of investment. For example, Gallagher pre super break was considered budget Luocha, but now that super break is out he's considered one of the more premium sustains because of how much he does for that style of composition, whereas Luocha basically just offers sustain and not much else that's frequently useful. Hope that helps explain my point a bit better.
No, there was no reason other than Mihoyo wanting those units to be strong. Developer favoritism always creeps into gachas, but even then those units will get power crept eventually. You mentioned modes which helped older units in other gachas feel better, but you failed to remember that none of those modes existed in the first 2 years of any of those games. Power creep IS absolutely necessary because the monetization requires reasons for players to pull new units. It might seem like a terrible thing, but that's what you have to accept when you're playing a gacha. It's designed from the ground up for you to keep pulling. Give it time and Mihoyo will release more content that will pull on other units and you'll have more opportunities to play with your favorite.
I fully realize those modes weren't in the game at launch, but in my opinion those modes were made for players to use different units - Pure fiction in HSR is a prominent example, where Erudition characters like Himeko/Herta shined, and now they're making PF only units like Jade specifically for that mode. Are those modes made out of the goodwill for the players to use different units? I wouldn't say so, but it still benefits players that want to use those characters that would be more niche otherwise.
Just as a quick add-on to that, you could say that HSR having PF goes against my point that powercreep is a problem, because mihoyo is doing the same things those other games are doing - but it's less about the having the mode itself and more what they do with it. In HSR's case they're releasing character A who is directly stronger than character B for the mode they're meant for, while for example FGO has extra limiting factors like team cost that drives the player towards using different, non expensive units.
I'll be fr, powercreep is not that strong in this game lol. Characters take a literal year to fall off and in gacha nature its very normal that the new character is guaranteed better than the last and characters to kinda age out after 6 months except for a few game defining ones. Also with how much jades we get you should have some meta relevant characters to easily clear most of endgame unless you havent summoned for whatever reason since 1.4 and sit on 1000+ pulls. Every single character that came out in 2024 is still incredibly good and can carry you so there has to be at least some of them that you like and can use if you are desperate enough to need to 36 star MoC every time. Someone like blade with the supports that dropped in 2024 can still easily let you get over 25 stars to get a majority of the rewards while being over a year old which definetely isnt bad. It sounds more like you want these characters to be the best dps until the game shuts down which is just plain unrealistic and would be insanely boring like how genshin is now after 4 years.
I don't want the characters to be the best dps until the game shuts down, and that wasn't my point - my point was that they don't have to be "aged out" after 6 months. If Mihoyo didn't make Character A directly stronger than character B, and instead offered more unique modifiers or modes that those older characters to shine in, then it wouldn't really be a problem. Think of how stale 'special' MoC modifiers have gotten, it's usually "do x thing and then there will be a burst of y damage". If we had more unique modifiers like PF or AS that incentivize using different characters because the buff for that cycle is good for them, then that would be more fun overall, like for example "doing x thing increases HP" which coud mean using sustains like Fu Xuan over Aventurine or dps like Blade over acheron/etc. Or other modifiers like adding a "cost" to using units which would encourage players to use lower rarity units as the cost may be lower.
@@fl2ur except what you say just straight up isnt true. Literally last MoC had the action advance trotter, before that in 2.0 we had a buff that straigh up increased DoT and before that Dr. Ratios MoC inflicted random debuffs. MoC buffs arent stale and not helpful to characters its just they dont help the specific characters you like, mainly cause those characters bring nothing to the table when it comes to unique playstyles really. Someone like DHIL came out around the same time but aged much better as he was built around a gimmick that let him be buffed in the future. Jingliu just had damage multipliers and besides that shes an absolute 0 so no wonder she didnt age well. Shes just a hyper boring character design wise. Blade may have some hope in terms of a dedicated max hp support but his gimmick just doesnt work with MoC buffs. Increasing max hp as a moc buff would make the whole thing just easier for everybody and not specifically him. Him an Jingliu are just cursed with bad non futureproof designs and thats why they died off unlike Topaz or Kafka.
@kevinm7927 2.3 MoC: do follow up attacks, burst of damage 2.2 MoC: kill trotter, gain attack & action advance Previous MoC: Do an attack, get energy Previous MoC: Do an attack, burst of damage Previous MoC: DoT trotter Previous MoC: Attack, get a burst of damage So while yes, not all of them are "get a burst of damage", there's still a solid amount that are, the rest are mostly generic buffs outside of the specific 2.3 MoC that wants followups. To be clear, I think the current one wanting followups is good, because that encourages using certain units people might not otherwise. I just wish it was the same case for other units. When was the last time you used Serval for example - an moc buffing erudition units would be more interesting imo!
@@fl2ur I mean thats what pure fiction is for. Its the mode for erudition cause MoC isnt suited for those units. Serval I dont use mainly cause she, like JL and Blade, is a character with no value besides damage which a billion units (even 5* units like JY on release) do better than her. Although I still run somebody like asta or yukong cause those units actually have something unique to them that helps in certain teamcomps. You just gotta accept that the one dimension boring statstick characters are obviously gonna age like shit when all they provide is statstick value that can easily be replaced.
7:49 The game isn't cooked, it's your perspective lmao. This video contains several points that are simply incorrect, and your approach to powercreep is misguided.
I want a game mode where as we progress more we giving enemy buff like a inverse blessing in Simulated universe. Meanwhile our character do not get debuff or buff.
![Rappa BREAKS Into Our Account [Honkai: Star Rail Erudition Only]](/img/n.gif)
Powercreep in HSR is significantly higher than Genshin. I love firefly, so I paid my way to C2 + signature lightcone and she trivializes content for me. Ironically, just before that, I got Acheron and thought I'll never switch her out for SU because she is just so convenient to use. But they changed how SU works so I don't even need to use Acheron. lol
But I still use my queen Jingliu.
as a 3+ years old genshin player I can say that I have never felt that I have to get that character or I'm doomed. People clear abyss 12 with ganyu or yoims to this day just fine
And hsr.. if you don't have specific or new shiny character you suck. Hsr just forces you to pull a shit ton of characters and it is not like "without x char it will be hard but doable" it is like "you get x character or you get fucked". You can get Acheron and FF and brute force MOC but you still will suck in PF because it wants completely different chars which often perform way worse in other gamemodes. And illusion mode just sucks anyway
The worst part is, you CAN clear content with old characters. However, most people don’t have an idea of the amount of effort and resources you gotta pump into those old characters for them to even be viable, especially compared to the new characters. An old character and their team has to be at their peak investment to be even slightly comparable to a new character in their average investment, and that’s the problem with HSR’s powercreep that anyone that says “powercreep is not real because you can clear content with old characters” completely misses.
Not even mentioning that, in order for an old dps character to be viable, you need the new broken supports since the old supports aren’t enough. Powercreep in this game doesn’t just fall on dps characters, it falls even worse on support characters.
Thankfully PF has herta/himeko destroying it, generally can get a team together with one/both of those that does 40k points for like 90% of PF variations. (You do need to have some variation of ruan/robin/sparkle though)
Then you can slap together some garbage for 20k on the other side
I haven't clear 36* for year. That saves me a lot time at the cost of only some primos
I hate when someone says that "oh why do you care, its just a few extra jades". It's not about the rewards, it's about getting the full experience as a player, the way the game is intended to be experienced. If you're locked out of that just because you didn't pull for the new shiny character it's an issue. But players will eventually catch on and they will ask themselves "whats the point of grinding for hours or spending hundreads of dollars for a character just for them to be replaced a few months down the road". The characters are just too expensive for it to be okay that they just keep moving the goalpost in favor of whoever is the new release.
How I see this, Acheron is the breakpoint of the ''Chen alter era''(inflexion point of arknights powercreep) when they start shamelessly introducing new cashgrab units
now they released wisadel and people stop complaining because they know the developer didnt really care
@@memento6947 Even tho my favorite character was getting an alter(Jessica) I stopped before typhoon because I didn't wanna keep going on that scale, but my favorite character of Star Rail (xueyi) was never an option bc this Game feels unplayable for 4*s so I don't care that much,but yeah Xiaofen will be single target acheron, in 2months we'll have another unit that powercreeps her and over and over, noone can beat the fastest powercreep as Hanya(she was viable for 7days)
@@karuy988 honkai series has been notorious for the powercreep. i was thinking and i am surprised how genshin is better in terms of powercreeping. yes, they might be little stingy about the in-game rewards but at least they handle this matter way better.
@@memento6947That and the fact that they made some 1.0 4 stars characters ridiculously strong and some of them are a core part of some teams (I'm talking about C6 4 stars and C0 5 stars level of investment here).
I will take off field pyro that powercreep Xiangling in term of of pyro application any day tho (seriously the best off field pyro app we have are Xiangling and freaking Nahida + Pyro although that would make burning a lot less relevant so I guess that why it never happened yet)
i usually only pull for characters i like and right now even with an acheron with her sig LC and with pretty good stats im still suffering in end game cuz of the inflated hp on these enemies, it honestly pisses me off sometimes because back then, in 1.6 or 2.0 i could clear MoC or PF without any issues, skipped jade? boom, PF is insanely hard, skipped firefly? good luck ever clearing MoC again. i invested a lot into my IL too and he cant even keep up anymore as his damage compared to the newer characters is just not cutting it. i already gave up on MoC because of this a long time ago though. but it isnt fun anymore to use my fav dpses like clara or seele who i've mained since 1.0. but the new yunli did make clara's playstyle more fun which was what i enjoyed about clara, just sitting back and countering all the time. still though, imo your concerns are valid.
Ppl complaining that endgame content is so easy - they do hp inflation. Then ppl complaining why is endgame content so tough and struggle. Hm.. i feel so sad for them dealing with all of the wants of the entire community😢
@@chllwthlln2295 Oh come on now, stop defending the company. The HP inflation rate is absurd and you'd have to be blind to not see it. In March of this year, around 37000 damage was enough to dispatch a single trash mob in Pure Fiction. Now, in the latest refresh, a single soda dog enemy has 60000 health. And the next Pure Fiction after that is set to have soda dogs with 78000 health each.
The rate of powercreep is astronomical for a game where leveling a single unit takes a very significant amount of time.
Earned a sub for keeping it real.
Came to HSR recently (about 2 months ago now) and coming from other games like Limbus Company, Arknights, Girls Frontline, Kancolle, etc
The powercreep in HSR is actually unreal. It's fast. Like it's insane to think that Gepard was once considered a premier sustain unit and then you compare hm to Fu Xuan, or, god forbid, Aventurine, and you can see why nobody wants to use him anymore.
It's not just shield units either. It's EVERY role in this game. Bailu was considered amazing at launch, now you look at the upcoming Lingsha who basically just does everything Bailu does, plus more damage, more frequent heals, cleanses, and what do they actually lose to Bailu? A one time rez? Yeah Imma keep it real, the rez isn't outdoing all the other stuff Lingsha can just do as a base.
EVen Feixiao. So good that she immediately toped tierlists. I have her. Everytime when I play her (like all the time) I'm forced to ask myself "okay she does assloads of damage, great. But did she REALLY need type-agnostic break on her ultimate to make her good?" and the answer is no. She just has that because of ?????? reasons.
I've seen the defense that "well HSR is a gacha so the new character always needs to be better than previous characters" and that's a bad defense and it literally isn't even true. Best example, Limbus Company straight up doesn't have powercreep. Kits get more expansive, by a huge degree, too. But Rabbit Heathcliff, a day 1 ID, is still a top 3 unit. Nclair, a month 1 unit, is still top 5. You can have a gacha and avoid powercreep if you design your game with futureproofing in mind, sadly, HSR failed to do so.
The main issue is that it stems from the games relative simplicity. Units have gotten more tools to their kits but they've never really become harder of easier to use. So the only real way to make them stand apart is to just feature creep the hell out of roles. Like Lingsha can straight up be built as a sub DPS for AOE damage. And she's an Abundance unit.
Good talk, I agree with this video. I'm someone that started in earnest during the original Kafka banner and just returned back to the game a few weeks ago after around a four-month hiatus.
This latest Pure Fiction refresh really opened my eyes. It's genuinely dreadful to play with the dinos that have beefy toughness and the inflated HP pools of enemies are ridiculous. I checked the in-game lineup tool to see what people are using to fully clear it and quite literally 95%+ used Robin for one side. If not Robin then there was a near 100% chance of either Acheron or Firefly being used on side 1 or 2 respectively. My fully maxed out Serval with premium supports just simply does not clear anymore, even with full lightning weakness.
Hoyo really just made Robin the single most broken unit in the entire game. She folds the game in half and makes all content exponentially easier because of how overtuned she is and how disgustingly effective the 100% teamwide action advance of her ult is. All of the 0-cyclers are playing around Robin's ult nowadays because it's so broken. Oh and she does significant damage herself because everything else she does just wasn't enough.
And now content is being balanced around her. I was already aware of how egregious the character checks were before I returned to the game but I didn't expect character checks to actually become mandatory instead of just making it easier to full clear. I will play a while longer and see, and will also be keeping an extremely close and very critical eye on future characters and their subsequent beta versions. If this disgusting powercreep shows no signs of slowing down then I'll just drop the game entirely because endgame is all the reason I play the game for in the first place.
Good video, especially for a first attempt.
When it comes to powercreep, characters getting stronger and stronger is inevitable, but what irritates me is how the content is so absurdly biased in favor of the new characters that if you don't have them or a character that works in a similar way, you're fighting a uphill battle.
It's one thing for the new character to have an advantage to sell better and another for him to practically unlock easy mode and trivialize the content and I know this because as soon as I got Firefly *Apocalypse Shadow* became a joke with me just not getting all the stars because I don't have Ruam Mei
i used to chase "meta" at first, but then i realised i didn't enjoy playing star rail like that. i want to use my favourite characters so i started investing in them more and i accepted the fact that i won't clear everything and that's fine
my main problem with powercreep is how quickly it happens like every dps gets at most a few patches before they’re powercrept already (like not even a year) and at some point you feel forced to pull for newer units even if u don’t like them. the game is forcing u to pull for all types of units because if you don’t they’ll make a new gameplay mode that needs those units and you’ll probably suffer without them.. “just don’t do it” then what’s the point? hsr isn’t open world and we barely get any events and the story is doable in a few hours then it’s just 40 days of nothing until the next update. don’t get me started on how most dps units need their lcs or e1/e2 to also be good so it’s not just get e0s0 characters it’s get e0s1 and if possible go for e1/2s1 it’s getting ridiculous even as a low spender i can’t keep up
Thank you for talking about this issue. I'm a 4 year Genshin veteran myself and just recently I was able to clear Abyss 12 without problems with my C6 Noelle - I would talk about my Imaginarium Theatre experience as well but it's not as relevant - the point is, I can clear Genshin Endgame with my favorite characters just fine. I don't even have Arleccino or Neuvilette!
I went into HSR with the same expectations, "If I build a team comp that caters around the enemies and buffs provided in this season, I'm sure I'll beat it if I don't have skill issue", that's what I thought. After Firefly released, I started to notice that this is not the case. I'm struggling a lot in endgame content just because I don't have Acheron, Robin or Firefly. I main Qingque and Kafka, and both are irrelevant in the current break meta. I feel forced to pull for Feixiao, but I won't give in. At least I'll try to.
All the people/content creators who clear MoC etc. with only 4 star characters are my saviors because they give me hope that I do NOT need the new shiny OP support or dps. I just need to invest more recources into the characters that I own.
Once those people can't beat the hardest content in the game with F2P characters, that's when I may drop the endgame content entirely because there's just no use. I won't pull for characters that I don't even want 😭
These games are all about the characters - while it's definitely frustrating sometimes that the favorites can't clear as well as others, at least there's always going to be some content that you can play them in(sim universe for example) to have fun with. Stick with the ones you want to play, don't give in 💪
If this game ever reaches that point in ur last paragraph, I might say bye to this game too cause it won't be fun anymore rip
Good comment. I love HSR and still do, but that is diminishing by the day. IMO the game was at its most fun around release all the way up until the release of version 2.0. They've added some significant QOL upgrades since but when it comes to balancing, everything has gone out of whack.
Before version 2.0, you genuinely could consistently clear all the endgame with units that were invested well enough. Just about any unit worked really, that's why that notion sticks around nowadays. It used to be true, but no longer is, it just takes a long time for the public opinion to change. Acheron was the catalyst for all of this. She lit the great bonfire of powercreep and most units since have just been adding fuel to the fire.
Robin most specifically is the single most overpowered and overtuned character in the entire game. She supersedes every single support that came before her in every single scenario with the sole exceptions being a full break effect team, DHIL team or Acheron < E2 teams. But in every single other scenario she effortlessly beats other supports. Even Sparkle, who is supposed to be THE limited hyper carry support, gets dunked on by Robin.
And it's not getting better, in fact it may even be accelerating. In March of this year, around 37000 damage was enough to dispatch a trash mob in floor 4 of Pure Fiction. In the current refresh, a single soda dog enemy has around 60000 health. And from what has been shown in the beta versions, the next Pure Fiction refresh is set to have soda dogs with 78000 health each. I have a fully invested Serval with premium supports and for the first time she was not able to clear a side with full lightning weakness. 24500 points (out of 30000) was the absolute best I could get.
Endgame is the reason I play long-term and level my units. But if the powercreep continues unabated then I will quit sooner or later. I will be keeping a very close eye on Sunday and his subsequent beta versions. If they genuinely make him "Robin-tier" in terms of buffs and just as, or even more broken than her, then I will know that this game's powercreep issues will only get exponentially worse.
Don't force yourself and don't pull for Neuvilette. He is first on the powercrept map.
I play star rail from beginning now as a new player and if I don't level up the world or something I can always clear main missions.
The spiral abyss, towers of challenge and other crap things are just for bored people. They don't contain any story and are cash grab content.
I don't respect 36* players more than others, because it's just a game. Even more I have them for no life's who do the trash content.
Yes Spiral Abyss is A TRASH, and they are using it as replacement for real content like archon quest.
If you 36* you are trash in homeless vagrant.
I'll say what i always say about powercreep in gachas, as long as content is doable without said powercreep and theres no direct competition between players(pvp or score based raids with much better rewards for higher places), then i'm fine with it, let whales have fun with their new toys, right now in HSR, that remains true, ive seen people using some of the wildest shit to clear moc/pf/AS, including dan heng(the 4 star) main dps, i can confidently say ive seen almost every character, except arlan(rip), being used by someone to clear endgame stuff.
guess what, someone made arlan zero cycle clear video for moc 12 lol.
But putting that thing aside, it's the feeling of how the new units are more fun to play and have better synergy with each other compared to older (hypercarry) that make people freak out... imo.
Everything being doable is a reach.
Most of those 4 stars are at E6 and have some really good relics.
Where the newest DPS can be strong without the farm of crazy relic stats ,also supports like Robin and Ruan Mei are a game changer.
Also its heavy rng based to win with 4* or outdated DPS characters.
@@doriansz3130 supports being a game changer is like the norm for gacha games no? even Serval can clear with Sparkle
@@KokoroeanI’ve seen one zero cycle clear with him, but didn’t they just slot him into ff superbreak? or are we talking about different videos
I disagree it’s just so much harder for no reason I’m an f2p and mostly just get to floor 10
Blade will always be cool for me
Honestly the thing is that basically all stages below 10 on moc are just clearable with even older units is what I’ve realized. But it’s just that 11 and 12 have such overturned enemies you really really need the new shiny dps or else you won’t make it
And superbreak was most definitely the turning point where shit got blown out the park. And honestly I don’t see a way on how we can return to the previous state of how things were unless the devs just nerf superbreak somehow.
I WAS LITERALLY THINKING ABOUT THIS MYSELF.
I got both firefly and acheron and they're really strong but it feels so disappointing not being able to use blade and jing liu in moc's and stuff. I pulled for both of them same reason as you, I thought they were cool asf and pulled for them. It just feels pointless to use them in moc when i can use firefly and acheron for it instead.
I did read that one really long comment and I do believe there is a need for some sort of hp support that can buff blade.
All in all what I'll say is ig we'll just have to be a little more patient if we wanna see those old dps's shine in the spotlight again. I could be coping on that idk. Until then ig we just have to go with this meta.
(P.S im not the brightest when it comes to meta discussions and what not so do forgive me if there's anything that made you question "is this guy fr")
Some points
1st. For why Jingliu and Blade fell off,its more because of them by design and not really because of power creep, like Jingliu have so many self buffs but with bad scalings that if some one with better scalings is out,its very easy to out damage Jingliu and Blade because there just no support that works for his gimmick. Most if not all units are made with a very large weakness so whoever is meta is often down to which is the easiest to circumvent like Firefly just need to dodge weakness lock enemies or Acheron need debuffs teamates while Blade need HP buffs supports (there are none) or Jingliu needs a lot of % dmg(which is somewhat rare) because she's self sufficient with crit and atk, while someone like Jing Yuan who basically works with everything under the sun gets better every patch (he's not meta but he can still catch up)
2nd. Its not really the dps that breaks the game, its the support and what dps works well with which support will decides who will be meta. For example the current best support are Ruan Mei and Robin and the reason why Break and Fua teams are so good rn is because they synergizes with those support (Acheron is Acheron ignore that) meanwhile HyperCrit had Sparkle which isnt as good as the 2 above which is why someone like DHIL fell off
3rd. MoC gets inflated HP counts is only partly because of power creep, its also because people just have more built unit, a Jing Yuan's 10 stack Lightning Lord used to only deal like 30-40k dmg but now a properly built JY with that exact team from 1.0 can now hit for like 100-150k because the units got better relics etc and while powercreep is still the major factor for HP inflation, players getting better at the game also contributed to this
4th. As for why there isnt a strictly single target mode for Hunt unit, of the currently limited hunts half of them need some trash mob to reach their full potential (Seele and Boot) and Topaz has been more less relegated into a support for followup than a true carry
5th. As for why super break is in the game, just ask yourself does any unit build break effect before it, like its in the game so there are more variety in the game options, albeit they are too strong for what its worth but still variety is good
6th. MoC doesnt have HP increase that drastically if its doubled after 1 year thats like 8% increase each month which isnt the worst, it'll took like 2-3 month to have them inflated enough that you'll need whole another cycle to win. Assuming your you took like 6 total cycle to clear 1 MoC, it will take an entire year for your DPS to truly fell off assuming no new relics sets or new support release that helps with clearing MoC
In no way im defending powercreep but currently Hoyo is expanding the game with content catered to the new stuff like MoC's memory turbulence. While blatant, its not as bad as like "if i use A it'll be the same as im slamming my head to a wall" after a few months
Side note: you mentioned FGO and why you dont feel power creep in that game is very simple,Castoria release during 5th anniversary touched the ceiling of power which means its impossible to go further anymore
Hey, I appreciate the long reply! Just some quick thoughts on my own -
2. Totally agree that supports are part of the problem, but imo you also need to look at which DPS work best with those supports - The supports themselves are mostly universal, so if DPS A works better than DPS B(Ratio/Topaz making better use of Robin than someone like Imbibitor Dan heng is a good example), then I'd say that's a problem in itself.
3 & 6. Definitely true that we as players have gotten stronger since 1.0, but I feel since moc12 has released, I can't say it's been to a massive extent unless you've been specifically farming for one character(or got lucky with relic drops). Also, I really only expect the MOC hp to increase further in the next few patches, which is concerning.
5. Break wasn't an amazing stat before, but it was utilized in niche scenarios depending on the player's state in the game(break is relatively strong early game, you could look at Lily Aquina's older videos to see that) but also with certain character's kits like Ruan Mei. Remember - Ruan was released in 1.6 before superbreak was added. They just as easily could've made a dps back then that scaled on BE instead.
Lastly, yeah castoria is giga busted, but the game is entirely clearable without her - a content creator in the fgo space(Honako Green) even made his channel around clearing with 1-3 stars only. In terms of how this relates to HSR, as mentioned in @singleplayer9773 's comment below though, its feels less fun to use older hypercarry units in HSR, whereas it doesn't really in FGO.
Thanks again for the response, always fun to talk about this stuff!
Jingliu has insane scalings, ie acheron has around 1600% after all her buffs while jingliu has about 700% from her enhanced. The real problem is because she can't stack buffs like for example if you use bronya her bis partner you only buff 1 of 2 turns which makes her have very inconsistent damage.
@@fl2ur Yeah. FGO surprisingly keep powercreep in check well, despite Servants kit only comprise of buffs and debuffs. Well, it's also helps that Servants get direct buffs and the traits and class system make niches extremely powerful. Like top DPS Servants is not gonna brute force through class disadvantage. And weaker Servants can outclass top Servants if class and trait lineup.
Funny enough, Sushang apparently performed very well in the Apoc Shadow.
i debated the Jingliu conundrum myself recently given has the problem of soo much inflated stats while hitting like a wet noodle scalings wise. it worked back in 1.4 cuz we didnt have the means to inflate any dps stats like that externally but now her weak multipliers show
how do we fix that? simple
GIVE HER A SHENHE if you play genshin you know what i mean (also ironic cuz she ice hehe)
give her a support that adds additional external scaling to her instead of a plethora of buffs that get watered down by her insane self buffs. have them build like only attack and then let her share a % of that as flat dmg to jingliu where she can multiply that flat dmg with her insane stats instead of trying to make her awful multipliers better with even more busted supports that end up buffing everyone else instead
Yea it’s like Robin. It’s why FUA Teams are so lucky to have a support that increase their damage without being reduced by the DPSs own multipliers.
100k dmg FUA? Here’s Robin adding her own attack to your attack so you get from 3k Atk to 5.5k ATK so now go do 130k dmg, and also, here’s an unscaled bonus damage that adds flat 15k to everyone’s attacks!
Robin is insane
I just started HSR like one week ago. I have really looked into the power creep issue, because I don't want to get stuck in the story. I don't care about end-game or whatever the Abyss is called in HSR. If I am only doing the story and side quests, do I really need to chase META? Genuinely curious.
The concern comes from me joining the game for characters I like: Blade, Kafka, Silver Wolf, Ruan Mei, Firefly, Dan Heng, Himeko, and March 7 because I like them. But I don't want to think that by the end of the year, none of these characters are going to be strong enough to actually clear the story.
I don't want to have to only pull for META characters - I got on that train for Genshin and have since gotten off it because I have way more fun playing playing who I like. I guess I'm hoping HSR isn't the same.
Hey, thanks for watching the video!
I'd say that while there's definitely power creep, the "average" player would probably still be able to clear some of the end game content, even on auto. In my opinion, most of the "need to get" characters are ones that support your favorites, like getting sparkle for Dan Heng IL/Jing Yuan or Ruan Mei for Firefly. Just because Character A does 2x the damage of Character B doesn't mean you're forced to get them if you don't do the content that requires that level of damage(end game/abyss). Any character can clear the base story content as long as you invest enough in them, and if you don't want to learn how to play the characters(like, you're just here for story) then auto can take care of that for you.
That's just my opinions though - Hope you enjoy your time playing HSR, it's a fun ride!
Usually no.
@@fl2ur I really appreciate the feedback. It's helping me navigate a stacked banner like the current one: Feixiao, Robin, Kafka and Black Swan... oof. :P
I landed on Robin as the more universal support for my teams.
How was the game? I pulled Yunli and I struggled to get past the story, had to literally stop the game and farm traces. After Feixiao and Robin not even a little bit.
@@IgnasV So far so good. Like you, I've had to stop and farm at level 40, 50 and now 60. The issue isn't that I have "bad" characters, it's that I wasn't building them enough - so, my original concern hasn't come true yet. Even some of the new META characters like Sparkle and Lingsha who are on my account, don't necessarily help earlier on - in fact unless you level them right away, I don't have access to their bosses yet. Moreover, I currently do not have a team capable of defeating Lingsha's farming boss - that T-Rex thing. :P
I've been patient and it's been rewarding so far knowing I can clear with the characters I have once they're built a little. I am however going to stop ascending my equilibrium level so I can make sure the characters I like are strong enough for what lies ahead.
You gotta think about it like a card and new sets are coming out. Its more new archetypes releasing and old ones will get support in time
the things that I don't use or only very rarely bronya, dr ratio, yanqing, topaz, himeko, clara, welt, fu xuan, jingliu, robin and yunli but she didn't get to shine yet due to not being build and I'm F2P still somehow but I'm super lucky on the other side
you are definitely more lucky as a free2play
Did you finish building Yunli? She performs so mediocre for me without her light cone, and being forced to use Lynx is another reason to not get her.
Honestly I feel like the only thing that helps break the cycle of power creep really is high vertical investment. The game evolves in a way that leaves E0 5 stars behind eventually, but not E2 or above. I have a friend that still plays Seele but that’s only because she’s E6. Similarly how committing to making a strong DoT team will take you far. Kinda sucks it’s like that unfortunately.
The thing is.
All modes are made for the strongest character in HSR. Hoyo puts effort in making buffs and mechanics of the enemies but in the end everything is just easily beated by the TOP DPS and Supports independent of the fight.
Example:
- Aventurine Boss came it out and he's destruction/ BURST erudition benefit Boss and Hunt counter, his mechanics was pretty good in punish Hunt until Boothill came and now Feixiao. Why, just why the mechanics are not followed!? Boothill just obliterate the tenacity bar of Aventurine and Feixiao too, they just insta kill him giving a fuck to "mechanics". And this type of mechanics are also really ridiculous, like, need more niche ones, normally is: "Better destruction/Worse Nihility" but if is just this, obviously the powercreep will corrupt, need more like: "High amount of Hits + Erudition/ Hunt + Nuke". Making the viable type of characters for each challenge more diverse and niche will make less powercreep because Acheron/FF/Boothill are not universal usable.
The game expects your characters to deal at least 2-3 million damages to all enemies and destroy them in less than 0 turn.
Worst powrcreeps I've ever experienced. Atleast Mlynar and Chenalter took a year to have someone get close to their power, Junao still one of the best buster looper. On this game, literally just 1-3 patches. It's like watching your favorite gacha getting slaughtered by devs themselves before your eyes.
it's not just endgame getting harder. it's also even story getting harder. Good luck defeating Aventurine or Sunday with sustains that released before Fu Xuan.
And since you mentioned leaks, I also wanna add these two leaks that supports your point:
1) they are gonna release Tingyun again. And her kit is just Harmony mc powercrept. There is literally nothing else in her kit. It's same example you give in video with Gallaghar.
2) they are gonna release new enemy for endgame that has 500 speed. And that boss have mechanic that you need to attack twice as much than him or else you are not gonna defeat him easily. You gain 1 stack per attack, he gains 2 stack per attack and he always attack 2 time at least. And don't forget 500 speed part. The only thing that beats this mechanic is Aventurine + Feixio. There is literally no other character that beats his mechanic. Good luck beating him. And btw, Feixio is the only current that can 0 cycle that boss with same investment at best teams. Firefly is 1 cycle and Archeron is 2 cycle.
3) let me add salt to your wounds. You already told that they introduced Superbreak and it overused, you must use that mechanic and all characters that use that mechanic are absolute beast compared to older characters, right? They are gonna introduce new meta in 3.x and this cycle gonna repeat itself. And boy, according to leaks, 3 of 4 character gonna be destruction.
This powercrept not even funny anymore.
True lol, I had to farm traces for a week to beat Aventurine and that's with me having Yunli. After getting Robin and Feixiao the story wasn't hard anymore, despite them not being built at the time.
Ooohh, if TingYun superbreak is coming I might want to consider Lingsha. Luckly for me I haven't experienced my units getting powercrept yet, but I probably will within a few months.
HSR really is, the Epic7 of PVE games
One quote: It is what it is.
If you always vertically invest if you like the old characters
Interesting to hear your thoughts on power creep!
I'm going to use Dan Heng IL for endgame content until the end of the game. If there ever comes a time where I can't anymore, then I'll quit. I will be grabbing his e2 on his rerun, and any good supports that have synergy with him. Currently, his team is clearing everything but pure fiction no problem (since he's not really meant for PF). I am pretty lucky that I like both Acheron and Firefly though, so I usually have a second strong team.
Break characters not implanting weakness is just stupid, since that literally is their kit if they cant break they cant deal damage
Give up 3-6 5 stats depending on 50/50s for a E2 acheron then win any game mode then the rest of your pulls can be for fun
I play genshin sice day one and I still use Klee monopyro for fun to clear abyss 12. Meanwhile in HSR I love JingYuan/JingLiu/Seele but it's so hard to make it work, yeah, you can make it work, you can 0 cycle moc 12 with even Yanqing... if you have an specific character with 167 speed with x set that will only be useful on that specific fight and your yanqing needs x speed with a Sparkle with 162 speed and no healer to buff as much damage as you can and hit the Yanqing FUA freeze and your Robin needs to take at least 2 hits from the enemy so she gets enough energy to use ultimate........ It's some crazy stuff... yeah that's for 0 cycle, but the normal clear is still as bad.
Hoolay 🗿
At this point they will need to give an upgrade to those old units,because nobody will summon for them on their rerun.
Something like awaking or skill/talent upgrades .
I tjink it would be cool if they made a new gamemode that’s like “house of memories” or whatever where there’s like a section for a select meta, like you cna only use 1.0 characters in one, only 1.0-2.0 characters in the next, and so on so on
Im a day 1 player that quit around 1.2 after losing a 50/50 and now I came back on 2.4. My account level was already 65 so now the content difficulty has increased so much I can barely clear early floors of MoC. The game is actually so unfun trying to brute force everything with seele and jing yuan. Did 1 ten pull when I came back on jade (clueless) and bricked my account. It feels like it'd be better to start from scratch than grind to keep up at this rate. Took a year off genshin at the same time and could still 36 star the abyss although it was definetly harder, but difference in difficulty is staggering.
If it makes it a bit better, Jade is very good in Pure Fiction - MoC isn't everything. That said, nothing wrong with restarting if that's what will make you feel better in terms of making progress.
@@fl2ur Yeah i know. I think im gonna brute force everything though. Jing yuan coin is going up i can feel it 🙃
I'm curious if you struggled through the story, but probably not with Seele.
@@IgnasV sunday and the ruan mei bug boss were tough. Actually beat them with jing yuan and yanking seele for everything else.
@@averagemilkconsumer The only ones I struggled as new player were Cocolia, Yanqing and Aventurine, interesting that you the ones that were hard were the opposite ones. To be fair almost losing feels so much better, winning at last hit hp remaining is so satisfying. Especially with epic music like I did with Cocolia.
Being low spender and having the Will to casually hold 100+ pulls all the time is the the way to go.
Yeah, i hate it. Especially since aventurine its just gone downhill.
So many enemies nowadays just onehit any carry thats not 100% hp, even with fu xuan you sometimes have to perma skill to sustain your team with ults. My main team is DoT and its just rough, you either bring the exact counters to the enemies or you wont get max stars, especially those new bosses like Sam or aventurine, you cant just bring any high investment team, you have to bring the exact counters or heavy meta like ff or Acheron.
After all that comes the fact that the buffs just ignore half the characters. You get super break, follow-up and ultimate, dot buff is super rare and mostly only in pure fiction. Especially in the new game mode bringing dot is just int, even with ruan mei, you can't break fast enough, and when you do, you dont deal any burst dmg in the down window.
Acheron, ff and feixiao at E0 all do the same dmg as an E2 jingliu. With their benefit being they either ignore gimmicks or simple have so much break efficiency in their kit for break enemies permanently. Forget Seele.....she is just worse everywhere.
And the problem is, they can hardly even undo this with new units.....any support that pushes characters like blade and jingliu back to the same level, is either so broken that the already broken characters can abuse them as well, or be too niche to really be worth it over just getting more eidolons. So the only way they can undo it at this point is to do a balance patch to buff all aged units, and stop with the gimmick mechanics that artificially make them even worse. We all know hoyo will never do that though.....at least feixiao can make use of my seele LC :/
I think its good to have hard content. But its the feeling of gameplay and the long forced metas. I dont care if I miss the last star because I use units I like...but when the enemies and mechanics of the fight force my units to not be played like they should...its frustrating. Make enemies broken...but remove artifical effects and other stuff that makes your units displeasing to use because they cant function proberly. And yeah...I skipped Ruan Mei, Adventurine, Acheron, Firefly, Robin and Boothill on purpose. I refuse to feel forced to play something I dont like...and break for example feels terrible...your team does everything once an enemy is broken...but does close to nothing before that happens...it just feels wrong and badly designed.
I started playing at the beginning of 2.0, so I was able to kind of dodge the misfortune of watching older units get benched, and even then I also got affected by the increase in powercreep because I couldn't get Firefly and without a single fire character at hand that Cocolia in Apoc was literally impossible to clear in level 3.
Another thing people don't mention much regarding powercreep are the Lightcones. You either get the character's signature because it is too busted not to, a gacha one BUT only at S5 for it to compete, or you get screwed because the free choices are trash/you only get one. Being forced to play Acheron with Fermata feels like you're just straight up losing half of her potential damage. And don't even get me started on the Harmony ones.
At this point I accepted it's just not worth to invest too much of my time in this game seeing the direction the devs are taking. I'm content with just clearing MoC at 34 and PF at 11 even if it means I'm losing out on rewards. Thankfully that also frees me from the pressure of pulling for meta units like Feixiao, and instead focus on getting characters I actually enjoy, like Kafka or Fu Xuan.
I am not disagreeing with the video but i feel like the dpses can still be used to clear content like I have used DHIL from 1.3 to now and he has cleared almost every moc and every AS for me
First of all, just wanted to say I think you have good potential for content if you keep up interesting/highly contentious topics like this. Now, with that out of the way, I'm gonna get critical of your opinion. It is a gacha game, ALL gacha games have some degree of powercreep, even if it's less than HSR, they all have it. GI had a lot of "mistake" characters, particularly in the 4* slots that lost Hoyo TONS of money. BUT, in general, GI is not a game where the vast majority of players care about endgame and meta. It's a game about collecting your favorite characters and exploring w some cool lore.
HSR is a turn-based game, meaning strategy is much more at the forefront, even for more casual gamers. Most of us played Pokemon and we know that even tho it is simple, there's a lot of depth there, just like HSR. So, in order to see new units and new strategies, power must come with that. And tbh, it's really not that extreme. Jingliu can still be used, same with Blade, same with Seele. It just requires good supports and higher relic quality than when they first released. And let's take Yunli as the closest example we have gotten to a character that has truly powercrept someone else, being Clara. Clara is still usable, just not as good as Yunli. Everyone thought Sparkle was just a better Bronya, but Bronya still has plenty of comps where she's favored over Sparkle, for example Boothill teams. The worst limited DPS in the game being Jingyuan, according to most ppl, can still clear MoC12. And if when 3.0 comes out and it comes to the point where we truly do have a unit that is just a better Bronya, then that's fine to me because that took over 2 years to get there.
Next thing, and you're guilty of this like most ppl, "Hunt is bad because it's single target in a 2+ enemy game." No, just no. Dr. Ratio during his release, Boothill and now Feixiao have proven time and time again. Having a strong single target DPS is great to deal with elites and now AS bosses. They melt their toughness bars and take less turns OR are more synergistic with a team around them to have multiple DPS doing damage and killing the enemy. Firefly is not better than Boothill. Acheron is not better than Feixiao. These are just incorrect takes made by the community at large. They are typically harder to play, but they clear just as fast as Destruction and Erudition units in MoC and AS content.
Lastly, you talk about this perceived problem, but don't really have a take on how you would like to see it fixed, so you're kind of just bitching and haven't gotten beyond that step. If you think there is a problem, tell us how you would fix it or what you like to see changed. Sorry for the yap, but I think it's good criticism for an early days CC like yourself.
@nikonFB1988 Hey, I appreciate the long response
The point of this video, while it mightve come across as bitching, was mostly just a "get my thoughts out there" type video. It was just a simple rant about how I felt/feel about the state of the game and the fact that using my favorites isn't as viable as it once was. Yes, powercreep is normal in gacha games, but the extent and speed that it's happening at for hsr is where the issue lies. While characters are still usable, being "usable" isn't really that fun when you look at how other units that might not be a favorite can clear much easier simply because hoyo decided to give them a better designed kit.
If you're interested, I do have other videos that I've made since this one where I do actually talk about my experience in other gacha games and give some of my thoughts as to how things can be different when compared to hsr. They're more like discussion videos than this one, which was definitely more ranty. The "Should characters be buffed" video is one example, and the video I uploaded just yesterday is another.
Appreciate the feedback, always looking to improve 🫡
i have a more casual approach to HSR, i feel like chasing the meta in this game is quite tiresome. i just enjoy the story and chase after my own goals.
Tbh its not about the dps characters but the supports and its very obvious. If you have all the supports you are good to go. If i could go back in time I wouldn't get Acheron and FF cause its not worth it, I would rather just get Robin E1 + Ruan Mei E1 its not even close in terms of value tbh.
I agree with a lot of what you say and it’s the exact reason why I quit the game
I just know, the moment im not even longer avalible to full clear any endgame content, 1 single time im droping the game.
Im playing from 1st day, and barely have 2 limited lightcones (seele and fuxuan, yeah, almost like barely have just 1 and 0 in AS) and mising 12 characters(and no dupes) i got luck and got acheron out of nowhere, and she hard carry me a long time even though i dont give a sheet about her(she ruin my pity....)
But dang, the game powercreep + buffs in AS become just soo freaking absurdly opresive for me, that seems like soon is not gonna make any sense keep playing into this each time deeper hp ocean, where only the newest characters can have a go and be usefull....
And yet, you gotta pray againt rng to dont get stuns in 5 random strikes(cocolia) in a row or an AoE attack that can take almost half you team life, and, may or may not stun your entire team out of nowhere each turn(idk who the hell though those 💩 bosses mechanics were something even closer to be "fun" to play againts) ...
Dang SW become soo useless that in this AS devs dont even code his implant right, and you can implant imaginary weakness in the enemies when they already have imaginary weakness....😂😂😂
The new AS definitely feels a bit better, at least on the Dragon side, but Kafka is definitely still difficult!
JUST MY OPINION!
these "powercreep talk" is pointless first of all since the start of gacha games powercreep is already there because it's the only way they can earn money and if it's not feel free to tell in what way a gacha game can earn money consistently for a gacha game to prolong its service, and before someone says why im here when i said it's pointless talking about powercreep i just want to see the perspective other towards powercreep. and if you say powercreep in hsr is so bad omg you haven't seen the true powercreep in other gacha games
I appreciate you watching and giving your take!
This.. They haven't play gacha games with crazy power creep..
I actually like hoyo ways of doing it..
I've played Final Fantasy Brave Exvius for the longest time.. BUT.. That game has crazy powercreep, and extremely awful way of farming.. But still thriving..
Nowadays, if you use the of 5 stars, you won't be able to even deal dmg without getting one shot..
Great video and sub too!
Yeah this game is so P2W (or be incredibly lucky) if you actually want to 100% every content there is and it can be quite frustrating but as you said maybe the last jades isn’t that worth it lol
nobody spends money on new units if power creep doesn't exist
Genshin would say otherwise. Took 3 years for the game to actually increase the power of top units with Fontaine. Even then it wasnt so high to where past metas "fell off" completely
@@aggil661 Powercrept was still very prevelent, each patch the dps floor increased by around 15-20%.
And yet Genshin's year1 fourstars are still ones of the comfiest characters to clear endgame. They have their specialties, XQ for interrupt resist and high hydro app, XL for heavily pyro-demanding fights, bennett and so on. Literally different here where you use Arlan and Hook and it's instantly cope. Atleast Serval is famous of her bouncing BA and being an ult spammer, but on fights where you need those, they require ST damage which is her very weakness.
@@aggil661yep thats why hsr makes more money
Cool video. Make some on genshin maybe?
“hsr and power creep” video number 1 billion
Oh no someone made a video on hsr power creep, let me go write a comment complaining
When you have an opinion on something, I've always believed it's better to speak up - and this is my way of doing so. It's not really any different than someone saying "I think it sucks that we don't have a room in the astral express to decorate" in a survey.
true but I've seen your opinion 5 thousand times and its annoying
@@MoiraOatis Thanks for watching anyway!
Why click?.... It's not like they titled it something else
It's like either c6 your favorite character, or good luck using them in the end game in the future.
I had to bend and get Jade and Firefly, because I've hit a wall in the endgame content. I didn't completely got them blind. Himeko wasn't build yet, and I had best team for Firefly already, she can also add her own fire weakness. Jade also works with Blade(cope) and Hetra, and I needed a quantum unit, because I didn't had any.
I don't regret pulling them now, because I did complete fan fiction, moc and apocalyptic shadow, so i see this as a investment of a sort.. but the fact that I was planing on skipping them in the beginning, and now expecting them to be useless down the line, kinda erks me. If you don't plan well, you might end up being stuck in a long run.
Is FGO still challenging if they encourage you to play suboptimal units?
@maxwellfolina8358 It still is. Being able to use a weaker unit doesn't mean there's a lack of challenge, just that the options you have are more varied. For example, one of my favorites is a 3* unit. While I could clear a difficult stage in less turns with a 5* unit, if I develop a strategy then I can clear with that 3* because I invested more in them using the in game items. It might take 1-2 more turns because the 5* has better skills, but that 1-2 turns isn't enough to make or break any kind of clear
arknights will forever be the only gacha game I know where powercreep really isn't an issue, as it doesn't have any timer-based endgame. There is a timer? Fuck that shit immediately. As soon as there is timer, there is a dps ceiling. Wherever there is a dps ceiling, there is this stupid never-ending cycle of new characters doing more and more damage. If your only way to introduce difficulty into the game is bloating the stats, your game is poorly designed garbage. It might have the best story, best music, but I'm talking about game design.
Yea, that's why I get frustrated(
HSR is gonna get away with this because Genshin players complain about not enough powercreep, so they put it in another game
Hah, you really care abt this game huh. I was honestly fine with not getting final 100 primogems but man does it feel good to have perfect 3 stars
I'm sure you don't intend, but your wording really gives off "the content is impossible" without these new powercrept characters. I'm a new player, just dipping my toes into the start of hardcore content and I've being following guides and learning alot from 4 star only guides and yes they can clear the highest. It for sure isn't impossible, but sure is harder lol. Won't deny it trivializes content, but it's all up the player to decide how to play, you could still be using your beloved characters you talked about in the latest content if you really tried, but you've simply decided that you don't want to, for whatever reason be it lazyness/convenience idk. If there was content that was downright impossible 100% without 5stars is when I'd start calling it a piece of shit game. But, it's not? atleast from what I've seen when looking up guides...
Hey, appreciate the reply with your thoughts!
I wouldnt say that the content is impossible for those characters(yet), but my point was more that older units don't feel as fun to use - yes you can brute force clear with most units but when the game is being designed around the newer units it makes the older ones seem out of place in comparison without an extreme amount of investment. For example, Gallagher pre super break was considered budget Luocha, but now that super break is out he's considered one of the more premium sustains because of how much he does for that style of composition, whereas Luocha basically just offers sustain and not much else that's frequently useful.
Hope that helps explain my point a bit better.
i pity people who spend money on this
No, there was no reason other than Mihoyo wanting those units to be strong. Developer favoritism always creeps into gachas, but even then those units will get power crept eventually. You mentioned modes which helped older units in other gachas feel better, but you failed to remember that none of those modes existed in the first 2 years of any of those games. Power creep IS absolutely necessary because the monetization requires reasons for players to pull new units. It might seem like a terrible thing, but that's what you have to accept when you're playing a gacha. It's designed from the ground up for you to keep pulling.
Give it time and Mihoyo will release more content that will pull on other units and you'll have more opportunities to play with your favorite.
I fully realize those modes weren't in the game at launch, but in my opinion those modes were made for players to use different units - Pure fiction in HSR is a prominent example, where Erudition characters like Himeko/Herta shined, and now they're making PF only units like Jade specifically for that mode. Are those modes made out of the goodwill for the players to use different units? I wouldn't say so, but it still benefits players that want to use those characters that would be more niche otherwise.
Just as a quick add-on to that, you could say that HSR having PF goes against my point that powercreep is a problem, because mihoyo is doing the same things those other games are doing - but it's less about the having the mode itself and more what they do with it. In HSR's case they're releasing character A who is directly stronger than character B for the mode they're meant for, while for example FGO has extra limiting factors like team cost that drives the player towards using different, non expensive units.
I'll be fr, powercreep is not that strong in this game lol. Characters take a literal year to fall off and in gacha nature its very normal that the new character is guaranteed better than the last and characters to kinda age out after 6 months except for a few game defining ones. Also with how much jades we get you should have some meta relevant characters to easily clear most of endgame unless you havent summoned for whatever reason since 1.4 and sit on 1000+ pulls. Every single character that came out in 2024 is still incredibly good and can carry you so there has to be at least some of them that you like and can use if you are desperate enough to need to 36 star MoC every time. Someone like blade with the supports that dropped in 2024 can still easily let you get over 25 stars to get a majority of the rewards while being over a year old which definetely isnt bad.
It sounds more like you want these characters to be the best dps until the game shuts down which is just plain unrealistic and would be insanely boring like how genshin is now after 4 years.
I don't want the characters to be the best dps until the game shuts down, and that wasn't my point - my point was that they don't have to be "aged out" after 6 months. If Mihoyo didn't make Character A directly stronger than character B, and instead offered more unique modifiers or modes that those older characters to shine in, then it wouldn't really be a problem. Think of how stale 'special' MoC modifiers have gotten, it's usually "do x thing and then there will be a burst of y damage".
If we had more unique modifiers like PF or AS that incentivize using different characters because the buff for that cycle is good for them, then that would be more fun overall, like for example "doing x thing increases HP" which coud mean using sustains like Fu Xuan over Aventurine or dps like Blade over acheron/etc. Or other modifiers like adding a "cost" to using units which would encourage players to use lower rarity units as the cost may be lower.
@@fl2ur except what you say just straight up isnt true. Literally last MoC had the action advance trotter, before that in 2.0 we had a buff that straigh up increased DoT and before that Dr. Ratios MoC inflicted random debuffs. MoC buffs arent stale and not helpful to characters its just they dont help the specific characters you like, mainly cause those characters bring nothing to the table when it comes to unique playstyles really. Someone like DHIL came out around the same time but aged much better as he was built around a gimmick that let him be buffed in the future. Jingliu just had damage multipliers and besides that shes an absolute 0 so no wonder she didnt age well. Shes just a hyper boring character design wise. Blade may have some hope in terms of a dedicated max hp support but his gimmick just doesnt work with MoC buffs. Increasing max hp as a moc buff would make the whole thing just easier for everybody and not specifically him. Him an Jingliu are just cursed with bad non futureproof designs and thats why they died off unlike Topaz or Kafka.
@kevinm7927 2.3 MoC: do follow up attacks, burst of damage
2.2 MoC: kill trotter, gain attack & action advance
Previous MoC: Do an attack, get energy
Previous MoC: Do an attack, burst of damage
Previous MoC: DoT trotter
Previous MoC: Attack, get a burst of damage
So while yes, not all of them are "get a burst of damage", there's still a solid amount that are, the rest are mostly generic buffs outside of the specific 2.3 MoC that wants followups. To be clear, I think the current one wanting followups is good, because that encourages using certain units people might not otherwise. I just wish it was the same case for other units. When was the last time you used Serval for example - an moc buffing erudition units would be more interesting imo!
@@fl2ur I mean thats what pure fiction is for. Its the mode for erudition cause MoC isnt suited for those units. Serval I dont use mainly cause she, like JL and Blade, is a character with no value besides damage which a billion units (even 5* units like JY on release) do better than her. Although I still run somebody like asta or yukong cause those units actually have something unique to them that helps in certain teamcomps. You just gotta accept that the one dimension boring statstick characters are obviously gonna age like shit when all they provide is statstick value that can easily be replaced.
Bro, drop the copium it's not good for you health
cmon
blade was never that good to begin with lmao
Be patience is key in gachagames. Think of powercreep as the growth of the games and you.😇
Old characters will probably work still with good builds
7:49 The game isn't cooked, it's your perspective lmao. This video contains several points that are simply incorrect, and your approach to powercreep is misguided.
DPS in gacha games always get powercrept
7:28 I pick Boothill for MoC, because I don't have 2 Acherons
I want a game mode where as we progress more we giving enemy buff like a inverse blessing in Simulated universe. Meanwhile our character do not get debuff or buff.