Working on a 3 Phase ‘Widow Maker’ | ØY38
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Join us on the farm today, as we tangle with life & death, dancing on the fine line of risk and reward, absolutely recklessly endangering all around*, we also wired up a new 3 phase distribution board, ready for a ground source heat pump installation, and commerical solar. Strap in, and enjoy the ride. 🍿
( P.S - I’ve managed to land 50% OFF of the Gilet from this video for all of my subscribers, go get your hands on my favourite Gilet!!! unilite.co.uk/p... )
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*I drank milk and I’m lactose intolerant 🥛 💨 💨 🤢
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360 degree headcams will never stop being funny.
Celsius or Fahrenheit?
@@justin8894Kelvin. Obviously!
Cory I find your channel compelling, as a retired Sparks with a lifetime in the industry, you would think I would have had enough! But it is fascinating to get a modern perspective! The basics still remain! Love the humour 😎👍🏻
Great episode. Insulated sharpie is fine, metal tape measure not a great pointing tool ⚡️😁
Coffee mug on top of the Main Breaker - what could possibly go wrong....... ?
It is quite funny. On the one hand, there are single insulated conductors carrying 100A (?) of current that are bolted directly to a wooden substructure without any additional protection against touching. On the other hand, you are using metal conduit for the new wiring.
Meanwhile in Germany we use a lot more plastic stuff that does not require drilling into metal, lockrings and that is insulated in itself...on the other hand, running 5x25mm² as a multi core conductor certainly is less fun than what you are doing with individual single conductors...
the widow maker shown is pretty standard in Europe in every house.
@@RandomUser2401 Not in the French part of Europe it isn't! It's either way neater and safer, or (pre 1980s) absolutely terrifying. ;-)
@@JonSenior I hope your not praising french electrics...
@@mariospanna8389 Modern wiring to the current standards is not bad. The standard seems mostly well thought out, although I put a lot of time in pulling CAT5 cable everywhere to meet the standard, only to find that by the time I can to actually use it, we were all using mobile devices with wifi and no LAN sockets!
Older French wiring is something else though! Braided sheath cables with push button switches just hanging from the ceiling which make your arm tingle when you touch the cable. Spurs installed on spurs, with no earth connection. Cables spliced with a choc block connector under enough tension that the connections pulled apart when the temperature dropped.
@@JonSenior I stand by statement as having worked and lived in a number of regions of France, and worked with french film electricians. NO thank you. You can't change my mind i have seen their work and what it happens as a result from it.
I am not talking pre 1980 aswell i worked out there in the 90's up untill about five years ago...
Appreciate the shoutout, Cory! Great to see our job management software is benefitting your business!
Oooh, intros now mate! Damn you make quality vids Cory - next level stuff. Also Cheers to your editor/producer/ crew etc. Superb, oh and damn hilarious in parts. 😂😂
Pretty sure those old federal boards arent even classed as protective devices anymore just isolators. Always pray they re-engage when switching on/off. Had a few not turn back on after a shutdown
Worked on a Coherent Everlase CO2 laser that was a literal widow maker. At its heart it had a large 3 phase transformer that took 480 in and put out plus and minus 40kv with filter capacitors that were fed to the lasing tube. It was current regulated on the ground side with 4 big glass transmitting tetrodes. The widow maker part was the mirror mount that needed adjustment occasionally was floating at 45kv at whatever current the transformer could source through your body. The laser had to be running in order to adjust the optimum alignment. Working on it was a bit of pucker factor, to add to it, the tubes were supported on a large granite slab so it has the tombstone built into it. Was very relieved when we retired it and upgraded to a Truamph slab laser that used RF. 😂
Interesting video 2x👍
I work for 6 months in a power station, that was truly "widow maker" power. Parts of site you needed special overalls with no metal. You could feel the power just walking past outside the room.
With the Henley blocks it looks like they have single insulated cable outside of containment or enclosure
Bingo!!!
Also they are upside down which takes away the ip rating
@@joshuabest100what ip rating ?
@adamjwhite50 yes Henley blocks ha a ip rating believe it or not
However going by the colour of the conductors this would have complied with the regs that were in force at the time of installation,and so whilst not ideal,its still compliant.
Nicely done Cory, remember, don't lick the tasty bus bar
🤣🤣👍🏼
The Copper Development Association produce a document on busbar design that gives torque settings for various bolting configurations.
I love your vids. Your camera person does a fantastic job. I live in Los Angeles and the terminology is very different. Not only do u really know your stuff, u have a great sense of humor.
Thanks for watching!
Whether you did or didn’t know Cory. Those old black cutouts / fuse holders can be made from a material that becomes phenolic overtime (degrades and becomes conductive) it’s not been uncommon for people to have tingles from them. Meter fitting companies etc generally use a Martindale VT7 to check these. I can send you one if you like ?
They don’t “become” phenolic. They are manufactured from a material called phenolic resin, essentially a type of plastic
They get damp and become slightly conductive 😊rare...but it happens!
Entertaining. Educational. Excellent
Thankyou!
All farm electrics are a little heehaw 😂 great video as always
You got that easy, able to turn it off, a luxury. I was a sparks on the docks in the late seventy's. It cannot be turned off as it costs a very lot of of money. Buss bar chamber live 2000A fuse behind it. Drill the solid copper bars, connect up the cables with nuts and bolts, that means one arm is up behind the bars with a spanner and a bit of tape round it. The same for the bolt head at the front. Put lid back on and jobs a goodun. I hardly ever worked with the power off unless the crane or whatever was down for maintenance.
Glad you're here to tell the tale but let's not don't glorify working live, it's not worth becoming a statistic to save someone money
Its what you get used to I suppose. Even when a circuit could be turned off, I was so used to working live nine times out of ten I didn't bother. When I think back some of it was a bit iffy like the cranes only fed with three wires red, yellow (or white) and blue. 240v for the lights meant two in series across two of the phases etc. The office block even still had capping and casing and bare wiring!!
I used to open these up live to do thermal surveys in gloves and an arc flash suit, the ones in switchrooms on Liverpool docks were deffo still the ones from the 70s or even older!
🥶
That’s why boss bar Chambers are becoming increasingly less common when work is replaced or new installations are done
"This is a widowmaker."
Turns off the main breakers. "Not any more."
😂👌 - only trouble is, I’ve actually had them lock into the on position before!! So they wouldn’t turn off ( check episode 3 I think it is! )
appreciate your videos, great content and excellent production quality
A fellow sparky here. Over here in the US, we just say it has been "farmered". Sometimes even in front of said farmer.
That checks out 🤣🤣🤣
The entire american electrics have been farmered tbh 😅
The block are upside down so the IP rating will not be to standard? and some single insulated cables where they have been stripped back.
Always great to watch and learn from you Cory ⚡️👊
FPE Electric... = Fire Prone Equipment (at least here in the US.) The "Stab Loc" line is extremely dangerous.. and there were thousands of the industrial breakers that were prone to failing by emitting smoke, sparks or exploding..and FPE's solution? They issued stickers saying don't touch it, and call a 1 800 number....🙄
I personally worked on several Stab loc panels, and a few of the industrial panels...and hated them with a passion.
Your video editor is phenomenal.
He is indeed 👌🏼👌🏼
Brings back memories did metal trunking by the mile still got the scars from the sharp edges
metal trunking is only going to cut you if you are care less, just like building a pc in a really small case, the first few times you have cuts then you know to put on gloves
Cory: It's a farm everything is just eh "hashed in"
Also Cory: uses his nipples for mounting boxes.
They’re as reliable as the sun
Alway love your videos, honestly carry on the great work 👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks man!!
Some curious things I realised, working for a Dutch DNO, is that in our part of the grid, we kept the old UK colour coding, i.e. red, yellow and blue (the consumer side does use brown, black and grey). One other thing is that - as the story goes - these colours were sometimes painted in the wrong order on the bus bars inside distribution stations. The pragmatic approach was not to redo everything but just supply either a right rotating or a left rotating field to the customer. From there on it is up to the electrician of the consumer to wire the devices in the right rotation. So, when changing a meter, we have to check the rotation twice to make sure before and after are the same, it's easy to swap wires (and actually simulated during training and examinations). Some devices won't work on the wrong rotation, but some will just go the other way around, as you mentioned, possibly damaging or destroying things.
That’s interesting!
What do you prefer?
Hi Cory great video as always. Would this need a Type 1 Surge Arrester on account of Over-ground power lines? I would assume the HV lines are over-ground as well as LV.
I just need some popcorn :P Awesome content as always.
Thank you!!! 🤩
The question is, which flavour 🍿
@@corymac Butter obv :D
I once warned a supposedly senior electrician to turn off and meter the 440vac before removing starter arc chutes. After his first grab and shock, he opined that was just static. Then he grabbed it a second time. I told him I was going to shut off the breaker while he recovered.
A different time, a three phase disconnect was positioned off, but one of the switches broke off the actuator bar, leaving one phase still hot.
Yeh, I also ohms check the meter leads before every voltage check.
"440 don't like to let go of you." is the folk saying.
Crazy! Was he injured after?
1:40 those are stab lock configuration brakers...wow what brand is that over there? those things are ancient second generation stuff. one step up from pillow block brakers they were good for their day but did not last long in the US market i think they went out of business in the late fifties early sixties iirc.
They're Federal Electric Stabloc MCBs. That installation was probably done in the late '70s or early '80s.
6:37 "those days are gone" 🤣
Hey Cory
I hope all is well I’ve got to ask do you do much work in sheffield ? I am willing to introduce Pringles more if this helps
Massive fan Cory been watching since the early artisan days, just wondering why when you are testing the new DB you are testing with the main switch on? Could have gave yourself a nasty one on the busbar
Thanks man! Thanks for the reminder to be more careful 🙏🏼🙏🏼⚡️
Most electricians seem to think it's a strict requirement to show visible inner insulation.
Yeah when I was an apprentice the old boy would strip them back for identification
Omg it’s like going back 30 years did loads of work on this stuff, up grades from 100a to 400a
I love that Milwaukee wrench
Us too 🤤
Another great video bro! ❤
From the man himself 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼❤️
Federal pacific breaker panel is a fire waiting to happen
Yeah!! I hate those things, I’ve recommended an EICR on the rest of the system.
Good vid as always, learned a lot from this
Glad to hear it!
Henley blocks have single insulation outside of the enclosure, they also have black tape covering one of the entries still get a finger or tool inside it, they are also upside down. If they only needed three ways they should of swapped it for a three way Henley block instead of taping over one way.
Shouldn't you turn away from the panel when flipping breakers?
What if something was accidentally shorted?
That’s why we test before we switch on 😁
Careful with the Sharpie. You don't have a 5 inch long insulator, you have a thinwall plastic tube with a liquid ink wick up the middle of it.
The vapour aspect of the ink and solvent is unpredictable and may depend on the colour of the ink but I know from experience that sticking a Sharpie in a HF radio amplifier with 1500VDC on the top of the bottles is a bad plan and caused a hell of a lot of paperwork and several clipboards turned up.
It broke down in a split second and all our bowels leaked out.
That’s insane!!!
A 3phase isolator / switch fuse would have been great as you tapped off the busbar. You are essentially making those sub-main cables an extension of the busbar chamber, even though you have 3 phase isolator/ main switch in the DB😮
If I was going more than 3m with my tails, I’d have been more concerned about doing that. But as it’s such a short run, I’m not as worried
@@corymac ok, if you are sure. But to work or change the new 3 phase DB would need another shut down. But I do love your work Cory ❤️
It’s a good shout mate. Thank you 🙏🏼😁
It’s a good shout mate. Thank you 🙏🏼😁
I worked a lot telephone exchanges there was equipment that would melt your saw , other that would blind if you looked down it, also a lot equipment you couldn't turn off without about3 weeks notice and then at 3 oclock in the morning .
😅😅😅
VFT is the best torque lol. Top video with some very cool editing! Keep it up.
How does the insulation hold up against possible sharp edges in the metal conducts? In germany im used to working with plastic"rails"
There’s no sharp edges 👌🏼. It’s all either filed or smooth grommets
Great Intro and Videography as always 👍
Wow you got done early and got the outro done amazing.
Do you sell those insulator sharpies? They should be in everyone’s toolbox!
They’re going in for patent
That cap must be hiding some grey hairs lol I’m still going through all your older videos 😂😊
Nice vids. I would have preferred if you had ‘brushed bright’ before making the connections to the bus work! 😮
Next time! Good call
7:17
new channel icon?
Great video. Would love to see the ground source install
Coming soon!
Is there no requirement to IR test the new tails and the supply side of the 4-pole isolator on the new DB *before* energisation?
How many other electricians know their nipple heights?
For instance mine are the typical reg max height of light switches and as a bonus the bottom of my kneecap is the typical recommended height for socket outlets from the floor.
Makes marking out a doodle...
Can't work out why the db wasn't terminated before the bus connections? Would have been much quicker?
9:34 10:27 - this is not 3-phase grid that makes widows, that's you, who works without gloves and with non isolated tools on lines that are not grounded.
Fair point!
Actually, it’s also the grand because you shouldn’t be working on it anyway even with insulated tools unless it’s necessity which you have the option to isolate the supply here
What's the company you are working with ? Onton Energy Wonton energy? No links in the description?
400V? You mean everyday domestic electric work? I happen to live in northern Europe so almost everywhere is three phase 400V. Only old apartment buildings are 230V single phase. Or well they're single phase in the flat, but three phase on the basement distribution room
We’re a little behind here haha
@@corymac I know right... But you've been to our neighbour so you've gotten a hand on our Nordic system. You just need to get the UK to follow... Conduits and singles all the way
Same in Germany. 3 Phases are standard in private houses and flats everywhere. Only in very old houses you find 1 phase supply. They are very rare.
What color of phases do you have? Red, Ylw, Blu? the blue one is kinda misleading, innit? In heart of europe we used to have black/brown/black (or all black/brown) (with labels U V W) and nowaday using brown/black/grey (labels L1 L2 L3)
not really the old phase colours used to be red,yellow,blue and black for neutral
We do use the harmonise European colours. You just need to identify the phases so technically using all brown would be considered probably okay because that’s fine. You technically could use all the same colour and just label them at the end but obviously obviously using a neutral colour for a phase would be a bit stupid.
Question from Norway: Why are not the meter box and main fuses from the grid inside a enclosure?
First of all this is not why would generally be done generally speaking there’s a main cable coming in and there’s a plastic box with the fuses on the front. That’s all sealed up too can’t get a shock then it goes to the meter generally on a new install, it’s on a plastic cabinet on the side of the building, cables that carry on the phases and neutral are double insulated
Nice one Cory
Got the new DB isolator on with busbar stabs live and exposed, no need to have isolator on for the tests you carried out .... nice vids....but be careful
i learnt that your normal sharpie is “insulated” 😂😂
😂😅
Keep smashing it😂🎉🎉🎉
everyone's said unsheathed cables on show on the henley blocks which is fair enough, but what's that insulating tape doing? If you can get it off without a tool then it better not be covering anything important!
That's a spicy meatball
🤌🏼
Why don’t you use black and grey for the L2 and L3 lines?
Generally speaking, that’s done, but as long as the conductors are appropriately identified, it should be okay
Majority of agricultural installations are rougher than 2 grit sandpaper
That’s a good analogy 😂
I noticed your using a tool to check that your multimeter is working, then you check your line, then you use that tool again to confirm... what is that tool?!? ive never seen one.
It’s called a proving unit 😁👍🏼
Those MEM busbar chambers are scary as fook never liked doing them.
clean up the shavings before pulling wires shavings can cause arc flash
We vacuum 😁
Why don't exchange it for a modern 3 phase busbar with clip on fuse switch disconnector?
And why are the neighbours tuned off? Isn't the big main switch to turn off the busbar?
It wasn’t in our scope of work 😄
@@corymac Like always: "I want solar system to save money, but i don't wan't to invest in a good electric installation to carry the solar energy."
@@maximilianreichelt9717 the government government issue grants generally quite heavily towards the installation of solar system something like farms
3:44 "insulated sharpie" sure, and few seconds ago you were poking those fuses with metal measuring tape ;)
ps. nice video anyway :)
My bad 😂😅
You could have checked one of the other existing lugs to see what they were torqued too!!! And its prospective earth fault current, not potential. You had the potential to check the existing lugs for torque values : )
Now that’s a move a smart man would make. I don’t claim to be a smart man, but I know what love is…
@@corymac
Ps, I do love your channel x
@@corymacmaybe you could tell these guys ua-cam.com/video/r3Pr1_v7hsw/v-deo.html
Reason the henly blocks are non-complinent they've being installed upside down
You can actually install them any way you like, but the seal needs to be IP4X, if you drill them out perfectly I can be done or you can fit a grommet 👍🏼
Issue is with the single insulated cables
Issue is the Line conducter is nearest the opening lide
the other guy said it first but henley blocks should be facing downwards or maybe side ways, i think its something to do with IP rating? not 100% tho..
I'm glad the nugget of information was your nipple height reference point. :P
It’s a life lesson
Top job
Would it not of been quicker getting the DB all terminated before shut off?
Trouble is, I couldn’t get the tails in until the trunking was in, and I couldn’t get the trunking in until I’d drilled a hole, couldn’t drill the hole til the power was off.
Surprised you didn't put a lock through those switches to prevent them being knocked on accidentally.
These big high current switches could be knocked on in theory, but you’re going to have to really put in a lot of force and effort generally
Good to see you working cory in the old bus bar chamber 😊.
Get them taps on them bars son.
Love the solar too😊❤ we love banging solar in
we love banging solar in
Were those tails damaged? 😟
Nope 😁👍🏼
what I don't understand is that Makita's best combi drill is more expensive then Milwaukee's and has a much longer service life yet people still think Milwaukee is better.
I'm using a Makita 3/4 impact wrench that is still going strong for 8 years of daily abuse that has outlasted 3 Milwaukee 3/4 guns. just why are people defending this TTI crap.
the only Makita product from their top line that I have to replace so far is batteries after 5 years of hard use as a agricultural mechanic. ive been at it 14 years and the batteries do wear out unsurprisingly.
There is one exception... The torches and multi postilion lights fall apart
buy the Makita top of the line whatever tool you need and it pays for itself
Do you think Makita is better? However they’re batteries last less in terms of years due to how their battery management is and they are more difficult if you have an issue.
12:30 teught like a teuger!
Nipple heigt... As if the British scheme of measurement units isn't confusing enough.
We use willy length here in the US for the amount of wire to leave sticking out of the box....at least that's how it seems on some jobs, and many are obviously lacking...😁
The metric system is very standardised and converting between millimetres centimetres and metres is quite easy
Should you not of fitted a 300 mA rcd with it being a farm ??
Or do you not need to because of the solor inverters ?
The whole thing will eventually be on TT and 100ma. It’s also not actually part of the farm, but a separate commercial unit
15:53 is 3,2,1 with Ted Rogers. You win Dusty Bin.
Uff... Nice intro.
Why didn't you put the DB in, get the tails and everything set up, *then turn off the power and tap into the buzz bars? You'd only need the power off for a couple of minutes. Also for the PFC, you have a modern MFT there, you could just test phase to earth, neutral to each of the phases and phase to phase to get a true PFC.
Love your work btw!
Trouble is, I couldn’t get the tails in until the trunking was in, and I couldn’t get the trunking in until I’d drilled a hole, couldn’t drill the hole til the power was off.
Thanks man!
Great video, but thought farm buildings were exempt from being connected to PME TNCS Earthing arrangement, so earth rod would need to be divorced from PME earth.
Correct, however this is a separate supply from the farm 😁
Also, it will be divorced anyways when we install the solar
It's only called a widow maker because old mate never liked his Mrs anyway... That's why we test before touching.
3:25 😂
Oh the many accounts I have had with busbar widowmakers. My "favorite" one is the busbar with the bottle fuse holders bolted on top of them. Last one I did even had a fuse holder that was loose, basically just rattling around. But I was originally trained with those systems some 25 years ago. Let's just not recount the times I've done stupid things 🤐
You say that fusebox is janky, at least your customers can't easily swap out the fuse size limit ring to a higher value, because "the fuse kept popping". Now I don't know about the specifics of UK DBs but I'll take any DB with resettable fuses over those bottle type DBs to be honest :D Sadly we can't choose what we get ;) That's why I've gotten into IT. Much safer job 🤣
In theory bottle fuse holders should have screws or sleeves that limit the fuse size (screws for the D type, sleeves for the D0 ones) but especially the sleeves for D0 holders are rare as hens teeth in the real world. The only time I've ever seen them used was in a block of flats where some git installed blue ones (20 amp) on a 6 mm2 supply to a flat for no apparent reason. I upgraded the supply to 10 mm2 as the original 1960 one relied on a 1.5 mm2 earth coming off of the water mains in the kitchen but couldn't change the fuses to 25 amps because I don't have the tool for removing those sleeves and didn't want to start messing with needle nose pliers and screwdrivers in live fuse holders. 20 amps seem to be fine though, that was almost ten years ago and I haven't heard of any blown fuses.
@@Ragnar8504That was what I was referring to. Those screws you can insert to limit the fuse size. I don't know where you live, but around here I can buy that tool for like 5 euro in the hardware store. Together with limiters. And sadly I've seen a few alterations in my life. The last one was about 4-5 years ago, I had to rebuy the tool, because I couldn't find my old one. But things needed fixing, so 5 euro it was :D
@@patrickd9551 The spanners for the screws (DII and DIII holders) are everywhere but the pliers for unclipping the sleeves in Neozed (D02) holders are rare as hens teeth. They're only about tenner online but I've never seen them in a shop (in Austria). And as I mentioned, I've only needed them once in my entire life. You can insert the sleeves without the pliers, just removing them is annoying. Besides, our network operator now requires switch fuses for all new or altered installations so Neozed fuse holders are getting less common.
@@Ragnar8504I must confess I have never seen those sleeved types, So i believe you :) And thank god that any type of bottle fuse is getting less common. They are a pain in the butt to service.
But most probably even the spanners will go extinct in shops somewhere in the coming years as those installs are getting rare too. No need for shops to have them in stock anymore.
At least we both our countries share the love for proper Shuko outlets as compared those UK terror plugs ;)
@@patrickd9551Yeah, fuses are likely to get less and less common. Austria still uses main fuses because it's difficult to ensure discrimination (selectivity) with MCBs but that's about it. Germany mostly switched to type E main MCBs at least 15 years ago.
My main pet peeve with BS1363 plugs is the lack of an equivalent to the Euro plug, so even the smallest devices need a bulky three-pin plug. The amount of brass used for the pins is also slightly excessive for a domestic 13 amp plug.
Open bus-bars scar the crap out of me.
Has EICR changed to Pass or Fail now? I thought it was Satisfactory or Unsatisfactory 🤔
Tomato tomahhhto
HI Cory, I am in need of some help with my solar installation. I want an EPS environment on my existing solar and need help with earthing. do you know anyone who can help me with that? thanks in advance.