The thing about Angelus is that he wasn't trying to casually hang out in demon bars without keeping his head on a swivel. Spike isn't careful. He doesn't think his actions through, whereas Angelus plans everything meticulously.
The thing I most appreciated about this episode was finding out that the Reason why the commando's and Riley were so strong was because of the drugs. I hate how sometimes Buffy's power can seem nerfed or not as impressive compared to humans, so it was nice to know that the guys who could almost keep up with her were only able to do so because of performance enhancing drugs!
Another thing with Angel, I don't think he was a major player for good until Buffy turned up. So he wasn't really on anyone's radar beside being a pathetic Vamp lurking in the shadows. Also, it works for this story for Spike being an outcast in the baddie society. As always great talk at the end.
Your reactions and comments are fun and really are fanlike. Your thoughts are like so many. What we, the teen viewers at the time, had a different perspective. We were often barraged with real life conspiracies and entertainment promoted all types of sinister intentions by corporate/ government entities. The X Files had become mainstream, black helicopters were always above, and scandals involving once sacred institutions were now news. We thought early on The Initiative was a government plot to harness Vampires and Demons and make them super-soldiers. We didn’t trust it and believed that the only reason they let Buffy in was to study her and see if they could control her and make her a soldier/ killer. None of us trusted the government ( recall this was soon after Clinton/Lewinsky and all of the Bill and Hillary Whitewater and killing witnesses) My Buffy group was all girls but me and half didn’t like Riley because they just didn’t trust him and if he was unaware then he was stupid. Also Angel came on after Buffy then and he was getting cooler each week.
You cant really compare Riley and Maggie. She was the lead scientist in charge of the operation, he is one of the top soldiers there just to carry out the dirty work of catching/dealing with the demons etc
Yeah he was probably told it was to neuter them and study them, but any sane adult would figure out that they're doing dangerous secret experiments in the back where no one can see them. I guess the drugs and mkultra was used on the soldiers to make them loyal and agreeable.
I think you guys are at the point where you can join the rest of us and start calling the goal "De-ratting Amy". Personally it was one of my favorite running jokes in the series.
My theory about Tara at this point was that she was just trying to protect Willow; she didn't know the full story of how Willow was part of a professional monster-fighting team, so she just didn't think they were ready to deal with demons.
@louquine yes, I know. This is the theory I came up with when I first watched the show. I was avoiding spoilers and presenting an alternative explanation.
Thanks Mike & Mikey, enjoyed your reaction/discussion to this enjoyable but middling episode. Happy Holidays! Chances are you're a couple episodes ahead, so at least one of Mike's questions has been answered. Looking forward to your reactions to those episodes. IMO, there is only one subpar episode remaining in season 4 and the rest range from good to excellent.
Goodbye Iowa a very average episode, but sets up the later half of S4 now we have established that Walsh was planning something very sinister with her creation Adam, and not only experimenting on the HSTs, but also the Commandos of The Initiative, as Riley is having symptoms of poisoning. Some great little comedy moments with Xander again, and of course to homage to the original Frankenstein when Adam meets the child.
Another great reaction! As for Tara, I'm sure that all will be revealed in due time... 😉While this season isn't popular with fans, I'm one of the exceptions who adore this season and I esp love the second half of the season. Oh boy, so much more to follow! 😀
I think you're kinda overcomplicating things with Adam. Did Angel get a pass? I don't remember him trying to socialize with demons. I think he was in that bar only once, in “What's my line”. Mikey might want to see the invisible people, but he won't. That's kind of the definition of what “invisible” means.
Angel had no pass, he's scary. He only reached out to certain decent demons to get something or some info. He does have old acquaintances, but he's not outgoing. Spike is a lot more of an extrovert than Angel who's a hermit. Spike would hang out with any type of demon, he has human hobbies too... He knows how to talk his way into people's good side when he needs to and he loves to have "fun". So if he goes regularly to demon hotspots, they will reject him for killing their/his own and helping the slayer. Demon code 101, don't kill other demons (self-defense don't count I guess) and don't help the good guys.
Spike's double thumbs up with the smile is always laugh-worthy. Same with him trying his American accent, as he is Brittish, but the actor who plays Spike is American. An older Giles has the floor/bag and the teenagers have the bed while sleeping in Xander's basement. 🙄 Adam: Do you want to hear how the big bad's plan is supposed to go down. Riley: No! Me: 🙄 _Goodbye Iowa_ is a great title as it represents Riley saying goodbye to everything that's shaped who he is from the start of his run on the series (and definitely earlier) until now. In other words The Initiative. Not about Riley's death, which many fans hoped for at the time of airing. The character wasn't initially liked. To the point where the actor didn't want to do comic con appearances for years. Some of The Review Crew references make me laugh harder than anything in the episodes because most of them come from Mikey, who is so serious about things like "Manbearpig." The Mayor wasn't bringing about the end of the world, just the town, and do so while Ascending to a true demon. Destroying the town would have sustained the change, as The Mayor says he needs to do within the first few minutes of his change before Buffy distracts him with revenge on her for Faith being in a coma.
I'm not saying Forest is gay for Riley, because I don't know that. But, back then? It wouldn't be unheard of to have a young man his age be so deeply in denial about his own homosexuality, just because of the climate that was still unfortunately prevalent in many parts of North America. What I am saying is that a lot of Forest's characterization makes more sense to me if I believe he's a deeply repressed gay man who is in love with Riley.
How? He’s going through withdrawals for most of this episode. And his hatred of demons before that has been pretty understandable considering he’s not, yet, met a demon that didn’t kill people. Including killing the people he cares about.
The thing about Angelus is that he wasn't trying to casually hang out in demon bars without keeping his head on a swivel. Spike isn't careful. He doesn't think his actions through, whereas Angelus plans everything meticulously.
Can you imagine how different things would have been if that stupid kid had answered “a superhero” instead of “a monster” when it asked what it was!
Knowing Joss Whedon, things would have been exactly the same. Lol
The scene with the monster from 314 meets the child is similar to the movie Frankenstein (1931).
The thing I most appreciated about this episode was finding out that the Reason why the commando's and Riley were so strong was because of the drugs. I hate how sometimes Buffy's power can seem nerfed or not as impressive compared to humans, so it was nice to know that the guys who could almost keep up with her were only able to do so because of performance enhancing drugs!
Omg love the Mike-slayer edit Mikey 😂 and the Adam-ManBearPig comparison.
Angel did not get a pass. He never hung out with demons
Another thing with Angel, I don't think he was a major player for good until Buffy turned up. So he wasn't really on anyone's radar beside being a pathetic Vamp lurking in the shadows. Also, it works for this story for Spike being an outcast in the baddie society. As always great talk at the end.
Your reactions and comments are fun and really are fanlike. Your thoughts are like so many. What we, the teen viewers at the time, had a different perspective. We were often barraged with real life conspiracies and entertainment promoted all types of sinister intentions by corporate/ government entities. The X Files had become mainstream, black helicopters were always above, and scandals involving once sacred institutions were now news. We thought early on The Initiative was a government plot to harness Vampires and Demons and make them super-soldiers. We didn’t trust it and believed that the only reason they let Buffy in was to study her and see if they could control her and make her a soldier/ killer. None of us trusted the government ( recall this was soon after Clinton/Lewinsky and all of the Bill and Hillary Whitewater and killing witnesses) My Buffy group was all girls but me and half didn’t like Riley because they just didn’t trust him and if he was unaware then he was stupid. Also Angel came on after Buffy then and he was getting cooler each week.
You cant really compare Riley and Maggie. She was the lead scientist in charge of the operation, he is one of the top soldiers there just to carry out the dirty work of catching/dealing with the demons etc
Yeah he was probably told it was to neuter them and study them, but any sane adult would figure out that they're doing dangerous secret experiments in the back where no one can see them. I guess the drugs and mkultra was used on the soldiers to make them loyal and agreeable.
I think you guys are at the point where you can join the rest of us and start calling the goal "De-ratting Amy". Personally it was one of my favorite running jokes in the series.
i never saw angel hanging out with evil demons. spike wanted to keep being friends with them.
My theory about Tara at this point was that she was just trying to protect Willow; she didn't know the full story of how Willow was part of a professional monster-fighting team, so she just didn't think they were ready to deal with demons.
It's more to do with herself, and what comes out in the episode called "Family".
@louquine yes, I know. This is the theory I came up with when I first watched the show. I was avoiding spoilers and presenting an alternative explanation.
Tara: who is she? what is she? why does she do what she does? No spoilers, just hold that thought.
Mikey, it was nice to hear Linux mentioned in the wild.
Thanks Mike & Mikey, enjoyed your reaction/discussion to this enjoyable but middling episode. Happy Holidays!
Chances are you're a couple episodes ahead, so at least one of Mike's questions has been answered. Looking forward to your reactions to those episodes. IMO, there is only one subpar episode remaining in season 4 and the rest range from good to excellent.
Goodbye Iowa a very average episode, but sets up the later half of S4 now we have established that Walsh was planning something very sinister with her creation Adam, and not only experimenting on the HSTs, but also the Commandos of The Initiative, as Riley is having symptoms of poisoning. Some great little comedy moments with Xander again, and of course to homage to the original Frankenstein when Adam meets the child.
Another great reaction! Can’t wait until you guys get to season 5!
Another great reaction! As for Tara, I'm sure that all will be revealed in due time... 😉While this season isn't popular with fans, I'm one of the exceptions who adore this season and I esp love the second half of the season. Oh boy, so much more to follow! 😀
"The I in Iowa"
"Goodbye Team"
So close to the GOOD stuff, nice reaction; have good end of year.
2:27
That's crazy... 😂
Mike asked a question this episode that will be answered in pretty much the first scene of the next episode, lol.
I think you're kinda overcomplicating things with Adam.
Did Angel get a pass? I don't remember him trying to socialize with demons. I think he was in that bar only once, in “What's my line”.
Mikey might want to see the invisible people, but he won't. That's kind of the definition of what “invisible” means.
I'm an fishman, I'm a fish, fishman, oh I'm a fishman
Angel had no pass, he's scary. He only reached out to certain decent demons to get something or some info. He does have old acquaintances, but he's not outgoing. Spike is a lot more of an extrovert than Angel who's a hermit. Spike would hang out with any type of demon, he has human hobbies too... He knows how to talk his way into people's good side when he needs to and he loves to have "fun". So if he goes regularly to demon hotspots, they will reject him for killing their/his own and helping the slayer. Demon code 101, don't kill other demons (self-defense don't count I guess) and don't help the good guys.
24:45 Angel does not get a pass. Lol. He went through the same treatment when he first switched sides.
It surprised me you guys didn't recognize the drug withdrawal symptoms, especially Mikey.
Spike's double thumbs up with the smile is always laugh-worthy. Same with him trying his American accent, as he is Brittish, but the actor who plays Spike is American.
An older Giles has the floor/bag and the teenagers have the bed while sleeping in Xander's basement. 🙄
Adam: Do you want to hear how the big bad's plan is supposed to go down.
Riley: No!
Me: 🙄
_Goodbye Iowa_ is a great title as it represents Riley saying goodbye to everything that's shaped who he is from the start of his run on the series (and definitely earlier) until now. In other words The Initiative. Not about Riley's death, which many fans hoped for at the time of airing. The character wasn't initially liked. To the point where the actor didn't want to do comic con appearances for years.
Some of The Review Crew references make me laugh harder than anything in the episodes because most of them come from Mikey, who is so serious about things like "Manbearpig."
The Mayor wasn't bringing about the end of the world, just the town, and do so while Ascending to a true demon. Destroying the town would have sustained the change, as The Mayor says he needs to do within the first few minutes of his change before Buffy distracts him with revenge on her for Faith being in a coma.
Three ladies vs two gents? From a purely practical standpoint it makes sense that the women would take the bed. ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
I love that Adam meeting and killing the kid is a great homage to the og Frankenstein film. I’ve never been a fan of Riley. He’s just so blah.
I'm not saying Forest is gay for Riley, because I don't know that. But, back then? It wouldn't be unheard of to have a young man his age be so deeply in denial about his own homosexuality, just because of the climate that was still unfortunately prevalent in many parts of North America.
What I am saying is that a lot of Forest's characterization makes more sense to me if I believe he's a deeply repressed gay man who is in love with Riley.
Nah..just another overly testosteroned soldier boy with a misogynistic streak..
It also show us the good programmed soldier vs the one breaking his programming.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Yeah, this shows just how much of a bigot Riley is underneath the peaceable 'good old boy'
How? He’s going through withdrawals for most of this episode. And his hatred of demons before that has been pretty understandable considering he’s not, yet, met a demon that didn’t kill people. Including killing the people he cares about.
That's your takeaway from this episode?
No one cares what you think.
@@Heldemon To be blunt, suck my tits. It's a free comment section.