Dr Kat and Henry VIII's Boring Grave?
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
- Today I'm responding to a Twitter question: "Why does Henry VIII have such a boring grave at St George's Chapel in Windsor? He built flamboyant palaces."
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Intro / Outro song: Silent Partner, "Greenery" [ • Greenery - Silent Part... ]
John Speed’s text is digitised at: play.google.com/books/reader?... (the start of the transcription about Henry VIII’s planned tomb begins here to on p.1053 (digital page 1071)).
Images (from Wikimedia Commons, unless otherwise stated):
Photograph of the tomb of Margaret Beaufort, mother of Henry VII of England in Westminster Abbey.
Photograph of the tomb of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York in Westminster Abbey.
Lady Margaret Beaufort by Meynnart Wewyck (c.1510). Held at The Master's Lodge, St John's College, Cambridge.
Portrait of Edward VI of England, by an artist from the circle of William Scrots (16th century). Held in a private collection.
Portrait of Queen Mary I of England, by Antonis Mor (1554). Held by the Museo del Prado.
Portrait of Queen Elizabeth I of England in her coronation robes by an unknown artist (between 1600 and 1610 copy of a lost original of c. 1559). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Photograph of the burial marker for Henry VIII, Jane Seymour, Charles I and an infant child of Queen Anne in the floor of the Quire of St George’s Chapel, Windsor Castle.
Water colour by A.Y. Nutt of the vault containing Henry VIII’s remains (1888) - SGC RBK H.386.
Portrait of Henry VIII, after Hans Holbein (after 1537). Held by the Walker Art Gallery.
Portrait of Katherine of Aragon by an unknown artist (early 18th century). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Portrait of Jane Seymour by Hans Holbein (c.1536 -1537). Held by the Kunsthistorisches Museum.
Extract and transcript from Henry VIII’s will detailing his wishes regarding burial and tomb (1546). Held by the National Archives, E23/4.
Conjectured drawing of Henry VIII’s tomb by Alfred Higgins (1894). Held in the Windor Chapel Archives, SGC P.169-P.180.
Portrait of Thomas Wolsey by an unknown artist (1589-1595, based on a work of c.1520) Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Artist’s impression of how the tomb for Cardinal Thomas Wolsey may have been intended to look, if it had ever been finished.
Photograph of the tomb of Horatio Nelson, Saint-Paul's Cathedral, London, England. Taken by mhx (2015).
Great irony that Katharine of Aragon, who Henry had hurriedly buried in a bland tomb in Peterborough Cathedral (my home town) ended up with a grander tomb than him, after the campaign in the Victorian era that saw women named Catherine/Katherine/Katharine across the country donate small sums to build her a grander tomb. Her grave also gets tributes left by well-wishers year round, normally flowers, candles and (most regularly) pomegranates, the symbol of Aragon.
Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.
That's Beautifu,l I didn't know that!!
How interesting. I love the idea of all the Catherine/Katherine/Katharine's banding together for her!
I didn’t know that. That’s really very nice.
So Mary couldn't even afford to create a better tomb for her mother, so hardly surprising she didn't do anything for her father.
Visited Windsor 25 years ago. While walking thru the chapel, for some reason I happened to look down. I was standing on that marble slab and saw the name "Henry VIII". Guess I kind of jumped back and a docent standing close by smiled and said, "Don't worry. I don't think he'll mind" (in that typically British manner). We all had a good laugh.
Maybe because he broke away from the Catholic Church, he killed off nearly all his wives, and he treated his daughters terribly. Perhaps Henry VIII burned too many bridges?
2 in 6 isn't nearly all. If you consider Aragon killed by him, indirectly (I do), that's only half.
Mary showed appropriate devotion but I think there was much privately. Elizabeth actually seems to have loved him. I don't know how she reconciled it, but she was able to make peace with multiple facets of many things.
Insta karma gonna get you.
@@gypsydonovan She reconciled it by the Act of 1571 which deemed her natural issue the only legal successors to the crown. Why would this be necessary unless she actually had illegitimate children? Elizabeth, according to most accounts was self-reflective enough to understand that to her lot would go as much suffering as status. Finding a way to love both parents is a natural thing for a child to want to do but I doubt she would have honored Henry VIII if she had not attained ruler status because in the first place she would have been killed if not crowned, and in the second place she had to honor her dynastic line if she expected or hoped it would continue.
Yes offing somewhere over 50,000 of your own subjects, then choosing a tomb in the style of the religion you crushed probably confused the heck out of his children.
Is it possible that Henry's successors didn't regard him as highly as he regarded himself? */sarcasm*
Love this comment 😍
Indeed!
This!
Yes!
Or that they didn't have *the money*. Of course, with Edward's reign, they were busy squabbling for power. Mary was probably too angry with Henry & Elizabeth was always painfully frugal....
I believe you're right about Henry's children, Edward being protestant would think only a simple grave for his parents. Mary, probably still resentful for what he had done to her mother and herself. Used the excuse there is no funds for such in the treasury. Elizabeth as well probably felt the same way, her own mother having received only a name on a slab in the Chapel there at the Tower along with others who had been put to death. Probably felt, " What was done to my mother so be I do to you." Now, no one cares one way or the other.
I agree. I’m betting that St. Peter denied his admittance into the pearly gates because he behaved like such a blaggard in life. Thou shalt not kill ( or order someone to be killed!!!)
Yeah for Edward a tomb like the one Henry planned, so ornate and covered in effigies and images of prophets, John the Baptist etc, would be seen as complete Popery and way too Catholic. So no surprise he wasn't inclined to have it built.
I wouldn’t blame Elizabeth I for wanting to get a little revenge for her mother. That’s exactly what Henry deserved. It’s probably telling that his own mother died trying to produce a new heir to replace Arthur. I think both she and Henry VII knew their remaining son was ill suited for the job of King.
Totally agree.
I have to say that I had give respect to James I & moving his mother, Mary Queen of Scots, from where Queen Elizabeth had her buried and had her moved into Westminster Abbey. Thank God he did have more respect for his mother than Elizabeth did for her mom. The issue with Elizabeth's mother is that her whole entire marriage to Henry and Elizabeth legitimacy was always doubted question and had her dad not put her in the line of succession as law, she would not have been put on the throne. It would have been Mary Queen of Scots or Jane Grey but james' Ray had already been executed by Mary Tudor. Therefore had Henry not put into law the line of succession a couple of years before his death and put Elizabeth if Edward had no issue and Mary and it Mary had no issue then Elizabeth; Mary Queen of Scots would have been the next Queen of England after Mary Tudor. Truthfully she would have had list crap in England than she did in Scotland because when she returned to Scotland and 1561, her totally Catholic country in 1542 until about 1555 went all the way Protestant for the most part in the only Catholics were up north. She was religious tolerance sunlight Queen Elizabeth and she wouldn't have allowed people to pray and attend to their faith as they wished as long as they did not interfere with another. she was the same way in Scotland and as Queen she would crack the whip if a Catholic was persecuting a Protestant even though she was Catholic. I respected Mary Queen of Scots for that and it's just heartbreaking that there was so much paranoia and fear from Queen Elizabeth because she always saw Mary as a threat. the only thing Mary wanted when she went to England to meet with her cousin was to get some rest and get enough of an army so she could go back there with them and take her country back. The council in Scotland we're trying to out her and her second husband and then listed James Hepburn Lord Bothwell 2 Mary Queen Mary when she was heartbroken and so upset and fearful for her life after her second husband had been killed. Mary Queen of Scots second husband was a total jerk off and she didn't know until after they married. she wanted an annulment but to do so would have made James illegitimate and he would not have been able to be King of Scotland and later King of England. goes to show what mothers sacrifice for their kids and I am so happy that James had that much respect for her after being told so many lies about his mother. everybody adored Mary accept Queen Elizabeth and William Cecil in England and then the Scottish Council that was trying two owls her and her husband because they were catholic and they were all Protestant with only one Catholic on the council I'm done so much research into this and the council members were the one who conspired to have Lord darnley killed and Lord Bothwell and a couple others were the ones that did their dirty work. Mary Stuart was not upset that her husband was dead because he was syphilitic. an alcoholic &he was very violent with her and stole from the Scottish Treasury. he was a disaster and nobody could have known until after they were married a couple months.
Mary Stuart was only upset because she was fearful somebody was going to do the same to her and there she was Damsel in Distress just as the council predicted, and Lord Bothwell was her protector and confidante there to protect her and offered to marry her & keep her safe. there's nothing new Under the Sun regardless of whether it's in England, Scotland or France & present-day backstabbing politics. here in the USA we've got enough going on right now and we all feel like we need Octopus arms to be able to handle everything that we are going through and have been going through for the past couple of years.
I think people should have more of an open mind, open heart, and closed mouth. Henry the 8th is the only big issue I've ever had with England and I couldn't believe that they allowed a man to stay in power like that. For 20 years or so he was a good King. and then he just went nuts and obsessive. I guess he had his loyal friends and servants like Charles Brandon. Charles was Henry's bestfriend, Genera, l made the King's life and death decisions for Henry when he was on his deathbed, and everything. There was no way anybody would be in any way capable of hurting Henry as long as Charles was there.
Henry was so vain that he would have been totally Furious to see what his son, Edward, left him as a grave.
Looks like King Richard III (recently) got a more respectful burial than King Henry VIII. Interestingly, Lord Nelson got the burial fit for a King.
Easy. Edward was a minor when he reigned, and died and the council was in charge. And later, Mary was not inclined to fix it because Henry had been cruel to her... by the time Elizabeth became queen, it was just not economically feasible and Henry was remembered already for his misdeeds as much as his extravagance.
I imagine Mary must definitely not have been too eager to complete the tomb. I mean, he treated her as lesser than because she was not a son and heir; he humiliated her mother through the divorce; he never let her visit Catherine unless she renounced her identity and beliefs and she died far away from her; he forbade her from mourning her own mother; he removed Mary from the line of succession; he called Jane "his true wife" implying that the other five wives were basically trash; and on top of that he wants her to build a big, shiny tomb to celebrate what a great king he was. More or less the same applies to Elizabeth. Henry should be grateful his daughters did not dance a galliard on his grave to say the least.
Henry's grave is reflective of his horrible life. He wanted daily masses said for his soul because he was terrified that he would have a great deal of answering to do when he would meet his Maker. He was so busy divorcing and chopping the heads off of the mothers of his children that I don't see why he'd think they would follow through on any of his grand schemes at burial; even if they had the money! He's lucky he even got a hole in the ground. How providential it may have been that those plans never came to fruition. It's unfortunate that those who share his burial site even had to be placed beside him. Question: Was Henry's grave at least tidied up after it was discovered to be in such bad repair; or did they seal the tomb shut after replacing the remains of the other king?
I think you covered all of the possibilities. What I really love is simply that he didnt get his tomb, and he is just a name on a slab. A fitting resting place for such an abhorrent man. Catherine of Aragon has a grander tomb, and floral homage is paid each year to Anne Boleyn in her resting place that she shares with Henry's other victims . Anne of Cleves has a fitting tomb, which Im guessing Mary or Elizabeth prioritised over Henry's. Catherine Parr has a beautiful tomb. Even Richard III now has a grand tomb. I think this would all make him very jealous and cranky. Lol.
Ha! I didn't even think of the Richard the III angle. I know he was more Henry the VII's enemy then VIII's, but his new tomb is way nicer then Henry 8!
@@Jaderust yes, I added it after I thought about all the people who got nice tombs when Old Hal didnt. It made me smile. Considering how many fine tombs were lost in the destruction and dissolution of the Monasteries, I really feel he is lucky to get buried in such a fine chapel as St George's in Windsor. Even that is more than he deserves.
@@BlackCatMargie hear, hear!
I think Henry didn't really care what happened to his body after his death or he would have finalized the plans and assembled materials (like a pharoah) in his lifetime.
Tombs are political statements and he knew he'd get whatever his heirs chose. Considering he destabilized his country for at least a decade beyond his death, a modest tomb is the most he deserves. How lovely that Woolsey's sarcophagus was given to Lord Nelson instead. Poetic justice.
@@gladtobefreeagain7375 Image was everything to Henry. I think he simply didn't thought that his wishes would be set aside by his heirs. That thought probably never crossed his self fulfilled mind.
I can imagine Elizabeth's decision to not make it might have been financial as well as personal. She was said to have inherited her grandfather's fiscal prudence and her father's temperament.
I have always thought Mary and Elizabeth would have had difficulty building the tomb because both of their mothers were discarded, to say the least, by their father Henry. I suppose they could have accepted that Jane Seymour provided a son, prince and king which was expected and needed at the time. But when family relationships meant everything, what of Katherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn? Henry should have been buried surrounded by all six of his wives. It would be an interesting tourist attraction and God could sort out the rest on the Other Side. LOL!
I'd definitely pay a LOT to see that!!!!
Buried with all six wives is a great idea! Ahh, if only they would remodel his grave site.
@@UA-cam4me So far two people think reburying Henry with all six wives is a great idea. Let's enlist Dr. Kat and Claire Ridgway (Anne Boleyn Files & This Day in Tudor History) to lend their names and expertise for a Go Fund Me campaign. That way it won't cost the government or Royal Family. LOL!
Lol if ghosts exist, he definitely wouldn't rest in peace with that set up
Yeah right in the middle 😂😉
Henry terrified his people,family and advisors.Turned this way and that in religious beliefs.People were probably so relieved when he went that they wanted to forget he ever existed ASAP!😰
One of the most surreal things to happen during my trip to England in 2019 was wandering around Windsor, looking down at the ancient stone floor, and realising that I was just casually standing on top of King Henry VIII and nobody cared…
I suspect that all of Henry's children, all the Courtiers, Lords, Ladies and dignitaries of his reign, collectively breathed a deep sigh of relief when he died; I should think that everyone he came into contact with tiptoed around him, gave him a wide berth, and no doubt all had someone in their family they wanted to avenge of Henry's sadistic whims. I mean, the man was a monster. Who in their right minds would want to deify him? E1 reigned long enough to have had his grandiose plans for his burial executed (pun intended), but she didn't. I don't believe that monetary issues came into the equation. I think that his boring burial plaque was most fitting. He was a madman.
Agreed 100%
I agree
He banished his daughters, and he thought about having Elizabeth killed at one point. He left her in the hands of a man who was a sexual pervert. Even ignoring what he did to both Mary’s and Elizabeth’s mothers, neither daughter any had personal reason to bear him anything but I’ll will.
I agree. Anyway, he is well remembered by his infamous deeds and all three of his children were monarchs of England and that is memorial enough. None of them had children thankfully!
Even so his eldest child, Mary the 1st, used the fact that she was Henry's daughter to take her rightful place on the throne when her baby brother (King Edward the 6th) tried to bar her from it. It was also the one time that Mary and Elizabeth got along and stood together to get Mary (and by extension Elizabeth) her throne
Perhaps the specification in Henry's instructions that he be buried with his one 'true' wife, Jane, made his daughters by other wives less inclined to follow those instructions that further displaced their own mothers.
But imagine if Mary had decided to rewrite history and build a tomb for Henry and Katherine, with those specs and the perpetual masses! I wonder if she ever thought of it.
Well, at least he did get his wish to be buried with Jane.
Probably not too happy that they have company, though. 😂
There is one thing wrong with your theory... His daughters got along well with Queen Jane and was reconciled to him because of the said Queen so I believe that his marriage to her would not have caused bad feelings.
@@tiffanysanchez9184 They won't hold any harsh feeling towards Jane herself, but the idea that Jane's marriage to their dad is a constant reminder that their own mothers were just tossed aside as trash, Queen Katherine receiving a hastlily build tomb in a church far from england and Queen Anne Boleyn just given a mere slab in the Tower's church
Tiffany Sanchez I think Jane is portrayed a bit too much like an angel sometimes. She was known to be a social snob - she did bring Mary back to court but not Elizabeth. E was kept away from court and Henry (and therefore Jane, too) neglected her to the point that she had nothing to wear because she grew out of her clothes. Her governess had to write to Henryˋs officials and beg for new clothes. I somewhere read that Jane even called little Elizabeth “child of the whore“ so I wouldnˋt bet on Elizabeth liking her...
@@tiffanysanchez9184 Mary was reconciled only because she had to sign her right away as an heir and accept that the marriage between her parents was illegitimate. A decision that forever haunted her. Perhaps Elizabeth had to sign as well.
my goodness such an interesting episode, I think karma had a lot to do with Henry's lack of a spectacular burial place. Interesting.
Is Henry’s coffin in bad shape because it exploded?
Yours is a profound observation! While I was watching this (and facing a doorway across the road inscribed with the pre-reformation date of 1517 when we would all have been Catholic) that the fates ordained it was his punishment for his wanton destruction of English Catholic faith and cultural heritage and iconoclasm.
not indian its that death doesnt matter
@@alicemorton9145 yes leaky leg fluids, bury some dogs widdim next time.
Yeahh, I wonder if people were just sick of his nonsense by the time he died :’)
As to his offspring honoring him, none of them seem to have lost any affection on him - but they had to demand respect for his memory for dynastic reasons: the Tudor claim was always tainted, especially for Mary and Elizebeth because of their mothers. But most important to the neglect of his burial orders, I think, is that no contemporary seems to have mourned his loss much. If anything, there seems to have been a sigh of relief. He had been a terrible king, and everybody knew it. He’d been a murderous tyrant running a corrupt police state. He’d run a prosperous treasury into the ground to finance incredibly wasteful personal extravagance and an almost laughably inept quest for glory through war. His foreign policy had been a long series of disasters. In his last years he’d debased the currency (to finance yet another needless war) so that every citizen was in agonizing financial peril when he died. And his religious agenda, his truly important legacy, was incomprehensibly incoherent and incredibly bloody. He’d been a spoiled child with ultimate power. I’ve never read that the country wept at his loss, at least not for long. If his burial wishes were neglected, the most likely explanation is that a debt-ridden, demoralized, religiously terrorized and baffled people probably gave him what was honorable and no more, all the while muttering “good riddance“.
Henry's son King Edward would have been the one to provide a tomb for his father. He never reached his majority and had a depleted treasury. Additionally he was Protestant and though Henry declared himself head of the church, many experts say he was basically Catholic, minus pope and dissolved monasteries.
I have read that Henry VIII did a lot of good things in his reign, most notably founding the British navy.
Other than that, I think the likes of John Gotti would cringe at what went on in Henry's court.
He rather reminds me of a would be emperor the world is saddled with today
@@jandrews6254 I was thinking the exact same thing.
@@jandrews6254 Uh, can't imagine who you're referring to...
i doubt any of his kids really loved him. he was extremely neglectful to mary and elizabeth and it's clear edward was pressured by him to be exactly what he wanted. they respected him publicly, but we don't know what they really thought of him.
This was so interesting! If I had to guess, Queen Mary was not in power long enough to raise the funds to lavish on a grave. And QE1 thought the idea was nucking futs after what that man had done to her and her mother. Do not piss off a woman who will have the last laugh.
I think Mary's own tomb also reflects what Elizabeth thought of all that had come before her. Whilst Elizabeth & Mary are buried together, Elizabeth gets the grand effigy, the beautiful ornate decoration, the pageantry & majesty... And around the back at floor level is a black marker that's like "Oh yeah Mary is in here too!" 😄
The decision was not entirely the queens'.
DMc88 The comparative length of their reigns and accomplishments probably impacted that as well.
do they though
DMc88 yes I’ve seen it. Elizabeth is literally piled on top of her half sister, The First Reigning Queen of England ( Jane Grey dismissed as a farce), a peer in every way to Eliz1, blood was bluer than even her father’s , with barely a nod to her at her final resting place. To me, it was the final humiliation visited upon the unfairly monikered “ Bloody Mary.” Why? Take a look at my essay In Medium: link.medium.com/8j0F1PUS99
I just love listening to you speak. So elegant. No fillers not a single extra syllable. Just straight clean facts delivered in BBC English. Episodes are always fascinating as well
Mary didn't have the cash. Period. She was too busy giving Philip of Spain money for his military endeavors. As for Elizabeth, she had it, but I suspect, as others have said, she wasn't much interested in providing a grand resting place for the man who had two of his wives executed (one her own mother), mistreated his first wife and was the root of much ill will between her and Mary. If she ever wanted to visit his tomb, she knew where it was. I do find it rather amusing that Henry wanted perpetual Masses said for his soul. I suspect, in his innermost heart, he knew he could probably use all the help he could get.
Sounds like everyone after Henry said a big F U.👋❤️
I think what you said is absolutely right. This may have been about 500 years ago, but people are people they haven't changed that much. lol
Ha ha good job he not reborn in this generation
👍
Henry's grave makes me believe in natural justice. For a man who caused so much pain to so many, especially his wives and daughters, it seems just that he is in such a pitiful forgotten grave with a torn up coffin. It doesn't balance out the harm he caused, but it is a step or two in the correct direction.
We visited Windsor in May, I drove my mom's wheelchair over his grave twice.. my mom loved the payback.
looks like the people of authority and influence after his death didn't think of him as such an honorable person
A lot old people at that time saw him as a serial head chopping monster. If any monarch should have the epithet of "bloody" prefixing their name it should be Henry VIII. Thousand not hundreds were executed by his command during his reign some of whom were his best advisors and close friends, like Thomas More and Thomas Cromwell. Wolsey only narrowly missed being beheaded by dying before he reached London on his way from York to answer charges of treason.
Maybe if Henry hadn't been such a bloodthirsty tyrant who killed so many around him in cold blood his wishes would have been honored. That murderer got better than he deserved.
Great topic Dr. Kat❗️
Isn’t it said that Elizabeth never talked about her mother but alluded to Henry
When needed to remind the people of her toughness and power?
If he was treated this way I can only think it was political, his legacy having fallen into disfavor, and economic as well.
He was a bad king in so many ways it is fitting that he is beneath our feet ✌🏼👑
Call me morose, but I would love to go in that crypt with an archaeologist and forensics.
Me too! I think it offers the chance to answer a lot of the questions about Henry and illness. Also a facial reconstruction to see what he really looked like
@@adushack1982 Me thinks Hans was too kind.
Unfortunately reigning monarchs usually decline archaeological excavations of past monarchs. 😭
@@quillpen815 Yes. Although they didn't stop them from digging up Richard in the car park. Archaeologists knew for years where his body was. QE2 denied the investigation of what may be the 2 princes in the custody of Richard 3rd.
Me too. I don't remember where, but I once read that when his tomb was initially excavated, the skull still had patches of red hair on it. Wish I had noted the source of that.
A note on the angels from Wolsey's tomb: V & A museum did a fund raiser for the restoration of "Wolsey's Angles" a few years back. I chipped in a little myself and hope some day to get to England and be able to see them.
Very interesting subject, gosh, definitely think that his main successor (Elizabeth I) who ruled the longest after him, simply did not prioritise the tombstone of a man who killed her mother and pronounced her a bastard....
Excellent video, thank you! How interesting that Admiral Lord Nelson got the sarcophagus that Henry took from Wolsey that was just sitting around doing nothing, then someone had a bright & very cost effective idea- recycling at it´s best!
I would think his daughters would have issues since they were discarded just like their Mothers. When they were "in his favor" they were treated with respect, but then it was like they didn't exist once he was onto the next wife. His final wife should have made some form of attempt since she was overlooking his Son and everything else, but then was pushed to the side. I believe it just goes to show how everyone TRULY felt about him and him "man whoring" ways. Perhaps they see how he is buried currently as what he deserves after how he lived his life. He lived an over the top life, give him a sub-par burial.
I'm always glad to see another Dr Kat video.
Aren't we all 🤗
Well if my father either divorced my mother unjustly or had her beheaded I am not sure I would put forth all that effort to his burial.....
Henry was an extremely abusive father. If he'd been otherwise, you can bet E1 would have moved heaven and Earth to finish it.
He was an ass but not ever to Edward because Edward was spoiled rotten and protected to the core as his only male heir.
@@montrelouisebohon-harris7023 both cut from the same cloth.
Not necessarily. And she wouldn't dare accuse him of abuse. They didn't consider it abuse.
Elizabeth, like all the Tudors, was obsessed with her image which was linked with the image of the family itself. It would have done her no good for Henry's memory to be forgotten. I really think the real reason was $$$$$$. Both Henry and Elizabeth had money problems, often for the same reason...wars.
@@bobreiter1863 she had money for all those magnificent dresses though. Elizabeth had a portrait of her mother in a ring which she always wore, but no portrait of Henry.🙂
Henry was an exhausting and abusive ruler, to say the least. No one could please him for very long. I think once he died, people were tired of catering to his every whim, and so they quickly turned their attention to the future.
Very nice . Our Henry reaped what he sewed .. crusty .
That absolutely sums it up I'd say. 😂
Wonderful video, as always!!! I wondered about Henry VIII's tomb on my first visit to Westminster. Of course, I was patiently informed by a long-suffering docent that he was buried elsewhere. Knowing as much as we do about his personality in life, it is not hard to imaging that he would be sorely disappointed at the lack of a stately monument . I believe that you are spot on in your political analysis of the situation after his death and the turmoil between his offspring. I can't wait for the next video!
This was a very intriguing episode! I think that Henry’s tomb just wasn’t that important to Mary or Elizabeth. They had more important issues to deal with and more important things to spend money on.
i would love to see an episode on Henry VIII's Nonsuch palace
How weird that Henry VIII was buried with Charles I. Arguably England's most famous king buried with the only one who was executed.
I’ve walked on top of it. I’ve also Seen his grandmothers & parents tombs as well. As well as his daughters, Elizabeth I, who also lies in Westminster, next to her sometime bitter enemy, her half sister, Mary.
Interesting video. Mary and Elizabeth certainly were traumatized by their father. That’s one reason why Henry had a boring tomb. Elizabeth’s mother was executed by her father’s orders. Days later her father married boring Jane Seymour. I’m sure Elizabeth had bad feelings towards her.
I suspect that, once Protector Somerset was installed in a fairly stable position, he would not have been in any great rush to spend so much money on an elaborate tomb, nor to hold a showy interment ceremony that might draw attention to the relative weakness of Edward's position in comparison to that of his father. Better that Henry is left in the past, and that comparisons between Henry and Edward are kept to a minimum until Edward is of age.
At a time when excessive embellishment was seen by the protestant movement as a papist indulgence, or even idolatry, it seems unlikely that Henry's vision for his tomb would have been acceptable to the young King or his advisors. The question of what to do instead would be a tricky one, and and one that, even if copious funds were available, could stretch out for years. Who should be asked to design it? Where is the line between appropriately regal and kingly, and blasphemously idolatrous?
Also who should be asked to undertake the work? The Italian artists and craftsmen originally approached to work on the tomb were almost certainly Roman Catholic, and might be viewed with some suspicion by a nascent protestant court. Could the skilled craftspeople required be found in England or another protestant country, though? Discussions of this type could easily go on and on.
Then, Oops! Before you know it, Edward is dead and here comes Mary (sorry, Jane) - no time to bury old Dad when there are so many heretics to deal with. Then Elizabeth, facing foreign threats from France and Spain, not to mention domestic plots and power struggles.
The path of least resistance is to do nothing, and therefore, nothing was done.
My friend did a module on Churches during her degree in archaeology and did her project on the wooden effigy of Elizabeth of York. We went together to Westminster Cathedral and had a good look at both hers and Henry VII's effigies. We also did a deep dive into the costs of both of their funerals and the amount spent on both of them was staggering
Theme tune will be forever be in my head!
Yeah, I wondered about it last week. I'd contemplated whether she composed it herself or commissioned it. Either way it is pretty memorable. Love it.
Greenery
Sudhir Chopde WOW Thank you. I’ve been tuning regularly for months and she certainly owns it now - at least in my head - I can’t imagine thinking of anyone but Dr Kat hearing this music.
Another great video! I was wondering if you were gonna mention how Henry’s body also exploded inside the casket as an added pinch of salt on the festering wound that was his existence by the end. They didn’t put a hole in the bottom of the casket to let out the massive amounts of gases that form in human bodies after death, so he just...blew up. At least that’s what I’ve heard/read a few times in various docs on this topic!
That makes sense about the completion of the tomb by his successors and he’s not facing the trauma xxx
Wasn't Henry nearly bursting out of his coffin?...leaking as well? They may have also wanted to get him somewhere in a hurry just to be done with it until they could do a better job of it later....a later that never happened. Just a guess.
You may have another king in mind: Henry II died in very hot weather and wasn't interred right away. I think he was the one whose corpse burst. William the Bastard's heirs and supporters all took off when he died and his body was stripped of valuables and his naked body left on the floor. I could be wrong. In both of these cases everyone was mad to leave in a hurry once titles and properties were named.
@@annagarza2377 I found this...
On 14 February 1547, Henry VIII’s coffin was taken to Windsor Castle for burial in St George’s Chapel after resting overnight at Syon Abbey. Apparently, some liquid leaked out of it on to the floor at Syon, and this was thought to fulfil the prophecy made by Franciscan friar William Peto in 1532.
Link to article...
www.theanneboleynfiles.com/14-february-1547-dog-licks-kings-blood/
@IntrepidFraidyCat that's really interesting thanks for sharing. That could also explain the state of his coffin. If he was forced into one that wasn't really large enough (which looks possible when comparing the size of his coffin to Jane's & Charles I's in that depiction) and given Henry's size, if his body had already started to decompose before the coffin was totally sealed, the build up of gases etc could have caused the coffin lid to literally explode. That's certainly not unheard of in such ill-prepared burials.
The king who was bursting out of his coffin was William the Conqueror. Apparently he was badly injured in battle by being thrown onto the pommel of his saddle, badly rupturing his internal organs. He died in Rouen, but his body was carried to Caen for burial in the Abbaye-aux-Hommes, the church he'd founded. By the time of his burial, his corpse had naturally become very bloated, and wouldn't fit into the rather smaller stone sarcophagus that had been created for him. As it was being forced into place, "the swollen bowel burst, and an intolerable stench assailed the nostrils of the by-standers and the whole crowd." according to the monk and chronicler Orderic Vitalis.It was said that no amount of incense would cover up the smell, and the mourners and clergy got through the rest of the funeral as quickly as possible!
@@markcooke729 Yikes! Thank you for the info!😉👍🏻
Henrys coffin looks damaged. Could that be the rumored “ explosion” where dogs licked his blood afterwards?
I'm so glad that you came up on my recommended Dr. Kat....your 1888 East End video, in which you spoke about "The Five" by Kallie Rubenhold, which I read btw.
I sub to very few channels but I am subbed to this one. I appreciate your content and I appreciate your analytical presentations of your content but most importantly, I appreciate you as a Creator.
That being said, I would love to hear your analysis on Anne Askew.
Thank you Dr. Kat✌
Anne Askew would be a great topic, I'll add her to my list. Thank you for the great suggestion!
I think the remains of a human always depends on someone else. If the relatives don't care, well, nobody cares. That applies in any era, historic period or normal circumstances no matter if you are a king or a peasant.
Excellent point, Atrinka. So true. And many people are very skittish about making plans for their deaths or their remains. As an executor of an estate, I can highly recommend that people do this in order to make the settlement of an estate easier on the person they've left in charge. It is difficult enough to deal with the loss without having to handle chaos as well. Unless, of course, there was no love lost between the parties and the deceased had in mind to plague the beneficiaries after departing.
Lynda Grace your words are exactly my thoughts. English is not my first language. I think even if you are a king there’s nothing you can do after you’re dead. Thanks for taking the time to reply!
@@atrinka1 You're welcome. I really appreciated your wisdom.
Wonderful episode, Dr Kat! Loved the connection to Michelangelo, and to learn of the final use of Woolsey’s black marble sarcophagus. Enjoy every episode I watch and appreciate all the effort that goes into their creation. Thank you.
Great presentation! I think he died so universally disliked that no one was much interested in completing an elaborate tomb for him.
I really thought I knew everything about Henry the 8th but I NEVER knew this. It dawned on me when I lived in London I never recall seeing his grave. I feel sorry for poor Queen Jane. Poor girl. Im surprised she isn't buried under the alter of Westminster Abbey!
I dont feel sorry for Jane she deserves her obscure burial.. She gained her husband over the spurious framed death of his prior wife, who gained that same husband by the humiliation and setting aside of Henrys true Queen, Catharine of Aragon. The only ones who deserved a decent memorial were Catharine of Aragon, Anne of Cleves, and Katherine Parr. And thats exactly how it ended up. The rest is between Henry, Anne Boleyn, Jane, and God. We mortals made sure they were buried and made note of instead of slung on a dung heap.
Although the subsequent queens suffered because of his behaviors, they would have presented the facade of royal respect and honors. His 'ordination' was so bloated, nearly canonizing himself. I wonder, who might have been motivated to raise money for the burial Henry wanted? Henry spent money without a care. At the time of his death, England was nearly bankrupt. His finances and the country's were a sorry state of affairs. There wasn't any money for an elaborate funeral and burial or monument. Queen Elizabeth had difficulty in funding the defence against the Spanish Armada. Later England profited greatly from legalized piracy/privateering during her reign. By then the time for a great funeral was passed. The public has a short memory.
This was amazing! Henry VIII was larger than life. Why it wasn’t carried out I don’t know...perhaps he didn’t have any relatives except his children. Makes you think they didn’t care much about his legacy.
It’s rather fitting that Henry failed to produce the tomb he wanted. I think he didn’t want to think of his own death. (Funny you said that as I was typing it).
Henry’s son was too young to understand the importance of Henry VIII’s will. Plus the Earl of Hartford was Edwards “protector” and advisor since he wasn’t of age. I’m sure the Uncle thought he should be king. Lol
Again, excellent engaging topic! ❤️
🤴🏻 👸
Dickens described Henry as "a blot of grease on the history of England". He was a tyrant, and deserved no glorious tomb.
Jacqueline Harrod I can understand that! Blob of grease lmao but in fact a 400 lb stinky tyrant. Rather grotesque huh? 😂🤣
I should imagine they thought he was a bit of a bastard (which he was) to so many. A crazy, nasty man close to the end of his life, I can’t see that he would have been so celebrated in death.
You are brilliant!! You bring history alive (excuse the pun). Thank you! ❤️
Henry treated many people so badly (I'm talking mostly about those he executed) and I agree that his daughters might not want to honor him so lavishly when he named both of them bastards, and treated Catherine of Aragon so disrespectfully and cruelly. Then he executed Anne Boelyn. Maybe this is how he was truly regarded, as opposed to how he wished to be regarded. I would rather he had a great tomb like other monarchs, though. He is such a significant and interesting part of the Tudor dynasty. I did not realize before this video that he didn't have a royal-style burial.
So happy for this detailed explanation, I remember seen the slab in St-George's Chapel and wondering what this was all about. Truly puzzling. This is helpful indeed.
Very interesting video, I honestly had never thought about Henry VIII's grave and how it pales in comparison to his contemporaries. I did find it amusing that Meghan literally walked over the stone during her and Harry's wedding.
I have however thought a lot about Elizabeth and Mary's grave and always wondered at the decision to bury them together. I'm rather fascinated by their relationship and like the idea that they are sort of reconciled in death, though I believe that the decision to bury them together was more James I/IV's than anyone else's.
When you look at the magnificent memorial chapel of his Father and mother that were added onto Westminster Abbey, and the rather insignificant memorial plaque in the aisle of the choir walked over by so many people, the comparison between the two could not be more striking.
Just discovered your channel and love all the history you bring forth, much thanks. Was shocked at the drawing of the state of Henry's grave at St George's Chapel. He is not one of my favorites in the scope of things, but you would think the vault would be given a bit of a sweep and repaired just a bit. Wish also that DNA might be drawn if possible from his remains to see what he might have been inflicted with in life. Would also like to see Queen Anne's remains moved to Westminster from the Tower and DNA done on the supposed remains of the two Princes as well. Cheers and have a great week!
I am hooked on this wonderful channel and find myself constantly humming and head nodding to the intro music 😄...even when I'm not watching it...
This was a fascinating bit of history, Dr. Kat, and I’m now terribly curious about Nelson and his burial site (and the repurposing of Henry VIII’s sarcophagus for the purpose). I hope you’ll tell that story!
It's kind of interesting that Henry destroyed so many women's lives in pursuit of a son, to continue his reign and make him "immortal." But in doing so, he created so much ill-will, it seems many just wanted to forget about him. Thanks for a great video!
As for Edward I can see him recoiling at the expense and the frivolity and Mary I think was more concerned with her mother's remains than her father's. Do we know if Mary thought her father was damned?
Maz Medazzaland .....as she was catholic and he broke the church in England......probably.
Best Channel Ever! So glad I found you! So much to binge watch and catch up on.
Love your videos, will never get tired of the historical gems in them.
Best comment section on YT, I love this channel! Thank you Dr. Kat, for responding to questions posed by your fans. This is great I love it.
I love every video you put out. Always makes my day to see a new one . Thank you .
I have wondered myself why Henry was buried so simply. I agree with the possible reasons Dr. Kat posits, but I also think that Edward, Mary and Elizabeth may not have wanted to revisit the tumult and uncertainty of Henry's reign and remind the public of it at a time when England needed stability.
Loved it. Thank you. Keep them coming xx
I read a book of fiction where Mary I had her father dug up and burned at the stake as a heretic. Found it a good ending for Henry.
Also fascinated by what was found in Mary, Queen of Scot's tomb in Westminster.
What was found in Mary's tomb?
@@elfsemail Hopefully you can Google it, way to many to list. Dozens of Stuarts. Some Queens and lots of children.
@@poochoes1 Interesting, thank you. I'll go Google!
Brilliant as always. This is why I love this channel!
Thank-you Dr Kat. I must admit after seeing so many ornate tombs around London, where I'm lucky enough to live, I have never given a passing thought as to why Henry has such an insignificant resting place when compared to others. You bring up many interesting points which once again has given me food for thought!! I love your conjecture around the various reasons and your incredible insight which is as sharp and articulate as always. Hope that that you and Jaime are both well xx
PS. I'm almost certain that this is out of your control, but I had 7 advertisements during this video, which seems a little excessive and is distracting xx
Kate H, try downloading AdBlockPlus. It's free, it's safe (my son is a computer expert). I have never had to endure a single ad on any UA-cam video.
@@janvan113
Thank-you very much for the info 😀
What a great video! I've just found your channel a few days ago now, and I am so very happy that I have! I look forward to watching the channel grow, and grow! Keep up the amazing work, and thank you so much for all that you do!
Would like to know what happened to the sarcophagus between 1547 and 1805 when it was finally used for Nelson
i recently came across your channel and i love how informative and researched your videos are!! hope you have a nice day!
I've been to that church and was surprised about where his tomb was.
It's astonishing no one bothered to remedy this when various tombs were excavated and repaired under orders in the 1700's and 1800's. No one even fixed Henry's coffin. Catherine Parr has beautiful tomb in Sudeley Castle after the years of neglect. Anne of Cleves is buried in Westminster the only one of his wives.
Kind of, "The King is dead. Long live the King." in physical form.
Mind boggling and fascinating,thank you for all your research,Dr.Kat.
Very logical, and well thought out. I love history, and I enjoy your videos.
This was really interesting! I love you and your videos. I wonder if you know however that the ads on your UA-cam channel have become pretty excessive I think we were interrupted no fewer than four times in 17 minutes. Just an FYI.
millsgirl2 interesting as I only had 1 ad
I had no ads, but I have an ad blocker. Helps tremendously.
I don’t have as blocked and had no ads. Strange the way it all works!
I had no ads 🤷♀️ something I’m very pleased about.
Just skip to the end, then rewind and presto, no ads.
I recently heard that Henry was deposited in his tomb by the Knights of the Garter and they practiced a ceremony that left it looking bad, but was done out of respect for his passing, I don't know how accurate this info is but it certainly would explain a lot😊
This is fascinating. Thanks. To repurpose grave preparations from a cardinal to a king to an admiral is unsettling.
Excellent. I always wait for your next blog . Love 💘
A most enjoyable and educational video. From a viewer in the USA. Always curious about English history and your videos always have interesting and little known facts. Thank you, Dr. Kat.
Superior, thoroughgoing scholarship offered in an accessible manner. Excellent, always, Dr. Kat! 😎
I just LOVE you! I have learned so much watching you. I just want to say thank you ☺️
Excellent video, looking forward to watching more
Fascinating! I had no idea. Congratulations on your lovely baby!
Dr. Kat, I’m so happy to have found you! I love your videos.
Wonderfully interesting!! I did not know about this, very thought provoking!
Incredible and thorough research. Fascinatingly told.
Dr Kat - I would love to see you do a feature on the Italian Renaissance artist, Artemisia Gentileschi. She is such a fascinating person who certainly had a confidence in her own artistic ability. Do her Judith and Holofernes works show her as vengeful, or do you think she's using her notoriety as self-promotion here?
Wow. I never knew. I'm shocked that he doesn't have a grand tomb. I must admit i haven't given it much thought until now. I love your content. I'm always learning new things.
Very good! Thanks
I just love your passion. You are a true gift
Could the fact that Henry tore the country apart to slake his sexual desires have led to his children not being interested in glorifying his tomb? They were left trying to navigate a country with a depleted treasury, and a people who were still angry at being torn from their chosen religion.
Your videos are such a welcome respite from the every day chaos going on here in the US, as well as the rest of the world - THANK YOU!!!
A sarcophagus fit for a cardinal...I mean fit for a king....well done indeed Lord Nelson! Absolutely fascinating information in this video. I am hook on your work. Please keep it up.