@@iftikharhussain4715 The question "what's to stop" implies that is the norm. Most boaters are cautious about where they stop for the night. The only real problem I've seen in narrowboat videos from UK are groups of unruly youths who harass. And the occasional nighttime theft who dont want to be discovered usually. But that isn't even a monthly or probably not even yearly problem for UK boaters. What country are you in? Maybe you're thinking canal bandits are everywhere like bandits are everywhere in other regions of the world.
@Kurt C That was totally not the point of the video. This was not a look at the boat layouts, it was focusing on the trials day and the electric engines vs diesel.
Canal boats seem like a great idea for solar electric. They don't need to go fast. They don't need to go far. They have plenty of surface area for panels and plenty of space for batteries which can even act as ballast. And if moorings have power outlets then you could even top up if you had to, or just moor and charge from the sun.
I am not a scientist nor am I a mathematician. If we were solely talking boats here I don't think the conversation would be taking place plus I don't totally believe the combustion engine is really the deal breaker. I just feel this is another Neon/Halogen moment where we were all told to buy it but they already knew Led was the future. I am intelligent enough to know that if we sit back and do nothing the Earth will take care of itself, we are already witnessing that where icbergs are breaking off and glaciers calving so as to cool down its oceans, ( are you with me ). The Earth has adjusted and evolved since the beginning I don't ned to tell you this but I think there is a better way forward than electricity I'm not sure what but I am sure Tesla and others has to get back their input first.
@@goldielocks2621 I'm afraid that view isn't really supported by science. While the Earth does cycle in temperature naturally (e.g., the ice ages), we are out of sync for the Earth to be warming up this quickly naturally, and from things such as ice core samples, we can see that the Earth has never warmed up this quickly either.
Electric propulsion seems to actually be very well suited to narrowboating in principle. Weight isn't really a concern so the battery can be quite large if need be. Lots of roof surface area for solar, a steady slow pace throughout with little sudden peaks of powers needed, and a constant vicinity to infrastructure in the rare case of running out of power.
There's also a lot less risk, if the battery explodes as newer tech lithium batteries can do, or you get into a crash, you're on a river... You don't need 24 hours of the fire service pumping water over it to cool the lithium fire down and stop a hole being melted in the road, like with electric car accidents.
Weight can't be ignored and neither can the current in particular on Rivers or coastal waterways. It would not be wise to depend completely on electric power just yet I think.
@@fireman-phil7307 Just take a generator for the rare times you need it. Its essnetially a hybrid. My home solar still output 1.5kw of electricity on a rainly cloudy day yesterdy btw....
as an electrical engineer considering buying and living on a narrowboat, I found this video incredibly interesting. It's also making me consider 'steering' my career in the direction of canal boat and EV propulsion installation. Thank you!
I think maybe the only thing lacking are charging stations. If the canal trust and marinas would install fast charging at water/sanitation stops the adoption of all electric could happen at a much faster pace.
It just dawned on me why narrowboats are, at least for me, so much more beautiful than caravans or sailboats. It's the speed. Just puttering along at a few miles an hour, relaxing, taking in the sights and senses. Heck if I could drive a convertible camper at 3 miles an hour across the U.S. on a special scenic, meandering road... well I'd be totally down for that.
It's the Art of the 'Saunter'. Many people just can't do it. An ex GF of mine, a hiker, could not manage a saunter along a riverbank for more than 30 seconds before she was itching to speed up. Saunters don't care about the clock. A true saunter can take ten minutes to cover 100 yards, with 'stops of appreciation' as you pass interesting things. Drove her crazy!
But try skippering one on a rainy day and having to get somewhere by a time. Maybe for work next day, seams the fun goes out of it until the next sunny day. Spent years boat and it seams the UK's weather has it organised to rain, when ever we came to moor up. PS I remember driving a convertible through the North California Red Woods, it was great and I even paid a dollar to drive through a Red Wood Tree. This was back in the 1980 when Pan Am did Fly Drive Holidays.
@@terencejay8845 both my wife and daughter are fast walkers, always walking slightly ahead of me - even when I speed up! I walk fast when I need to, but otherwise I want to enjoy the 'journey'. Often, when I get home from a walk along the same route they would have taken earlier, I ask if they saw this or that, and they rarely have.
This video is a perfect example of why we can't let David quit vlogging cold turkey. I mean, who else is going to bring this much-needed attention to the huffing and puffing of displaced swans (not to mention the rowers)? And how can you not view sneaking up on ducklings and fishermen as a plus? "Shhhhh, see that duck up there? We're going to sneak up on it and blow the horn real loud. That never gets old." Seriously, it really does seem like a diesel-electric hybrid is the smartest solution out there (especially if you're running said diesel on used cooking oil). Maybe one day the tech will be available where you could continuously cruise on solar power alone, but if you have to sit and charge for days after cruising for only a few hours that day isn't likely to be anytime soon.
@@itchyvet 😆 The last trip I made in the Kenworth before leaving the trucking gig was with biodiesel. That turbo Cummins ran just fine. I wish it did smell like fish & chips, but alas it was the same diesel stink.
@@itchyvet now I'm hungry for fish and chips just because you said that. But in all fairness I should point out that I'm never really NOT in the mood for fish and chips, so there's that...
here on the Burgundy Canal, they used an electric tug boat to clear a very long tunnel. it entered service in... 1893. Yes, the century is correct. it got its energy from an hydroelectric station. so electric boats are not that new. quite the contrary, in fact : )
I agree, so long as there is adequate space for a good solar array on top, electric just makes sense, I don't see it working nearly as well on almost any other boat design, but for narrow boas, electric is the obvious choice for me.
yes, when we bought our first narrowboat with a much loved lister engine, it was to noisy on the back deck to enjoy the peaceful tranquil setting that you travel through. Electric all the way.
Nice. Very interesting. If you're ever in the Berchtesgaden area, take a trip on the Königsee out to the monastery at Skt Bartholomae. The fleet of water buses is all electric. Superbly quiet even with 40 odd passengers on board. Afik these are all traditional, lead acid charged overnight from the mains, just like the old milk floats. So you're preaching to the converted here.
Have ridden those multiple times. Never got to hear the canon fire, but only the trumpet being played out in the middle. Anything other than electric would ruin the setting.
If I had a narrowboat I would prefer the electric route for the pure pleasure of silence and listening to nature sounds and to sneak up on the Piano Boat whilst piano is being played.
It's the perfect application for hybrids! I expect that most boats spend more days parked than moving, so lots of time to charge the batteries. And when docked for long periods, no gas purchases.
Yes but don’t you dare tell the rest of us by building a new boat, you are using less energy and doing less harm than restoring an old one. It is a huge big ugly lie, whether you admit it to Yourself or not. And you are just making it someone else’s problem, where rare Earth magnets are extracted. Or the steel is made
@@sre331l diesel was the answer to petrol engines...bringing they're own problems..now it's batteries mined in places where people are treated appallingly....we care how our coffee arrives in our homes and turn a blind eye to kids being used to mine lithium.....
@@alanleahy2047 not to forget the destruction caused during the mining of lithium, and the fact these types of batteries are useless when worn out and don't degrade very quickly.
I went on a canal boat holiday once, the only thing to spoil it was the noise of the engine, which, after a while, began to reverberate in my skull. Electric seems the way to go.
I want a diesel electric. (like a locomotive) and then I want to discover a hidden canal no one else have found because that exists in my mind (although totally impossible in the real world) and then I want to hide out there all winter with a stove blazing. an improbable big water tank and stash of food. :D and of course a killer internet connection. I suppose it would have to be a secret canal, much like the train platform in Harry Potter.
The Stafford Riverway Link fits that bill www.gofundme.com/f/stafford-riverway-link-basin-amp-bridge-project?fbclid=IwAR0zMnQ-j457an1ypjlzvtBzxZQ7smuYd_5TjVvSN45AzRXUOa1FvOqg9hY
Hi David, back safe and sound from having your jaunt on the Wash. I loved the video of the Steinway grand piano on the wide beam in London. My boat is a hybrid. Beta 43 Diesel engine with an electric engine, all expertly put together by Hybrid Marine. I have 17 hours of battery power to use as “Go Juice”, so if my Diesel engine fails I can navigate to a safe haven. Well, that’s the theory. My boat was built in 2014. People can’t hear me coming when I use the electric (and most of them say the Diesel engine is ultra quiet and difficult to hear). Stay Safe!
Well with a proper muffler IC engines can get really really quiet, so much that most of the noise you hear from a car while revving low is the wheels rolling on the asphalt and luxury cars add artificial noise so the engine sounds powerful instead of being almost absent. Partly due to canals being quieter than the road and that a good number of folk find the puttering of the engine pleasant, I believe narrowboats both sound louder because they stand out more and manufacturers don't really aim to eliminate the noise entirely because in designing the muffler they wanted to preserve some engine noise.
It's the perfect application for hybrids! I expect that most boats spend more days parked than moving, so lots of time to charge the batteries. And when docked for long periods, no gas purchases.
I know you said this was not a "scientific" survey but this looked like a very comprehensive comparison of the different propulsion systems. A terrific effort by all concerned.
Perhaps not scientific, but a valuable comparison under real-world conditions. These are results that current and future boat owners can understand and use.
I’d say the approach was quite scientiffic. However, for an officially recognized study, you’d need more boats and they’d have to do the same stretch of river/canal several times. Perhaps even with different helmspeople. As it is, you have an indication. What I just described there would amount to statistical verification.
For myself, if I cruise for 3hrs in a day I’ve had quite a long days travel. I may then haul up for 2 weeks. The greatest benefit of electric then kicks in because I would then have a massive battery and electrical generation capability. Travelling is probably less important to me than most with living off grid being the most important part of narrow boating.
It's amazing! I have never thought of your boat being necessarily loud, David, but being able to hear every note of the passing birdsong is remarkable and a reminder of just how much noise we produce doing seemingly innocuous events. Have you put in an order?
As you build boats, I have always wondered why water can't be taken from the canal and filtered? They have brilliant filtration systems on American Motor Homes and can plug in to very dirty water off grid if needs be?....
@ Fireman-Phil There are such systems and I know of one narrowboat with it but they take up valuable space and aren't really necessary as there are plenty of water points around the network.
@@fireman-phil7307 I wouldn't want to drink canal water, filtered or not! There's more in there than just weed and old tyres... Back in the 60s, we had a family camping holiday following the Thames to its source, and we drank the river water at each camping site - both filtering it and adding a tablet of some sort(?) to purify it. It was horrible! Even in tea and stews you could taste it. The holiday had to be abandoned half way through when my sister was taken ill and the hospital told us it was pnumonia! I don't think this was actually connected to drinking the river water, but it was the only time I've been glad to go home early from a holiday!
Sounds like the electric boat is a possible way forward in boating because they are gas guzzlers running on diesel all day, plus it's better for the environment and quieter.
@Agent Smith You don't need 3 phase; just a normal household socket would be fine to charge a narrowboat overnight. And no, there aren't any of those other than at marinas but that's why the current generation of electric boats have solar and onboard generators.
@Agent Smith Every marina I've ever been to has a 16A, 240V hookup at the end of every single pontoon for every single boat. So multiple boats could certainly charge overnight. As for solar, it's much more than a trickle charge as this video demonstrates. Even on this rainy day, one of the narrowboats made 2.9kW on a journey requiring 10kW so, as explained in the commentary, it would require another two similar days without motion to generate the balance of power used. The battery bank doesn't need to recharge from empty to full, just to fill up whatever was used on the last journey or needed for the next. But yes, outside summer this would take longer hence why all the boats have generators - but it is much more efficient to use a generator working at optimal efficiency than a diesel motor pushing a boat at canal speeds.
I run my 5m launch on electric. Everything a narrowboat isn't - deep V hull with concrete ballast (for rough water), never fitted out the cabin. Strictly day trips. Lives on a trailer and is charged off domestic mains at the end of the day. However many passengers comment that it's quiet - you hear the sound of the water slapping against the hull instead of the roar of an engine. No fumes. One thing I notice is the fumes when someone with a 2 stroke outboard comes near. On my boat, I don't get any extra speed putting more than about 2.8kw into the motor. I just draw more power making bigger waves. I converted the boat when the 2 cylinder, 2 stoke engine was unrepairable after years of storage at my father's place. Wasn't the Broads Authority pushing electric boating quite hard for several years? - providing charging facilities at mooring places ?. How's that working in practice?. One thing I remember from our 4-day hire on the Broads was the smell of diesel through the boat. I would have lept at an electric option, but they didn't offer such things back then.
I can charge our electric car on a 13amp socket anywhere in the UK, so if I visit my parents (who sadly don't have an electric car) then I can plug in and by the morning I have full 'tank'. Narrow boats should be really well suited to this 'slow' charge approach, so there really doesn't need to be the infrastructure changes that have been needed to build 'Rapid' chargers for cars in the UK.
@@videogalore Don't forget that if every narrowboater changes to electric... there will have to be more charge points, either rapid charge or slower chargers... to cope with "everyone"... Using a huge battery on shore, slowly charged off-peak or by solar array, to then rapidly charge multiple boats over the normal day... may give the best of both worlds....
@@videogalore I agree. From the video they seemed to do the whole trip on 10kwh, a granny charger (13amp socket restricted to 10amp) would charge that in 4 hours.
What's funny is ...here in the u.s there using the tesla which is great BUT...BUT..you still have these stupid kids blasting there radios so you can't think straight. Here lies another problem. Quiet efficient engines, blasting radios ...not making to much sense. But then again ....humans
Hi there Bud ! -You OK fella I have been looking into your American Canals ? - Believe it or not ? - Linking the Big Lakes together - Gotta say that I cannot believe the size of some your Canals comparing them with our Canals - Its like your freeways being compared with our 'A' Roads ? - So wide - One Day I would love to travel your canals One day ! Love the loop system too ! All the Very Best S.B. ( Just up the Road from the Leeds Liverpool Canal) British Isles
Just wait until you could have a boat with solar and a few days of battery power aboard, and decent fast chargers at marinas and other mooring points along the banks. Seems like a grand idea to me!
@@CruisingTheCut If its a cruiser or semi trad, the noise inside is less than a trad and diesels aren't too bad in that configuration - I quite enjoy the quiet throbbing. Saying, I'd be intrigued to try an electric.
Our semi trad has a quiet engine with a hospital silencer, and at a relaxed cruising speed is a quite pleasant hum inside (round about 'G' on the scale!) But all the other benefits of electric are very appealing. :-)
A family member works for BP's electric charging arm. I asked if there would be any interest from BP to install charging points on canals, where there was easy access to high voltage supplies. My thinking being that a lot of canal runs alongside railways. His answer was "not a chance". His reason being, there was no money in it. You can only make money from charging of it's "attached" to a retail outlet that will help you spend money while you wait!
I was just rewatching your videos and wondering “when will a new video be posted” when lo and behold a new crusing the cut video! My day just got much better!
Crushing the cut? Poor canals! Stop molesting them! - SCNR! Still, you aren't wrong, have been re-watching older vids (including Van-Videos on Vandemonium!) and was waiting for a new one, too!
Well done David! I said it before but I will say it again, the new format you are using to create content is wonderful. Granted I would watch you sort sunflower seeds from smallest to largest but I appreciate the truly interesting content.
Their scepticism is justified IMO. There's a lot of loose public money swishing around green tech, so some pretty terrible ideas end up getting funded.
I'm following your, and other narrowboaters, vlogs a few years now. Of course I've seen everything! But you make me wrong again! This was an absolute new angel of the narrowboating. Whats next? I'll wait and see.
This is quality stuff. It's a relatively small thing when compared to the pollution from heavy industry and whatnot, but any and all movements to green energy is worth the trouble. Hell, even if this doesn't shave off a bit of the global pollution problem, the fact you can have a nearly silent boat that doesn't need to fill up (and potentially spill) fuel and doesn't stink up the place is great for enjoyers of wildlife
Great video. We have 8 panels on our house providing 2.2 kilowatts and they cover about half our electric use. Most of the boats have around 12 panels.
I've seen a few different "Perseverances" on vlogs - often simply moored up as the vlogger passes by. There was one of historical note from 1911 I think. I'm guessing that could lead to a few others using the same name.
Solar panels seem like a good idea, but I'm surprised nobody seems to have thought of mounting panels on the sides, or indeed covering the full length of the roof. There's also the possibility of having a flexible array (imagine a long but narrow awning) that could be erected alongside a moored boat, a bit like the awnings you see on camper vans. The solar panels fitted to the electric boats in the video look like they're only using a fraction of the potential available space, so, with more work, the gap between solar power produced, and solar power used, could be eliminated, even on a dull day. And of course, with solar panels becoming both cheaper and more efficient, this has to be the future.
An array that sticks out over the towpath or the canal would be very much in the way so not really practical. Many boaters use the roof for storage hence some area left “unpanelled”.
@@CruisingTheCut Ah, no. I wasn't suggesting people hang a solar array over the towpath, or the canal. There's often a strip of grass between the moored boat and the actual towpath. I've often seen boaters set up chairs and tables on this strip of land, and this is the bit of land I was referring to. Even if there wasn't a strip of land, you could have some brackets along the edge of roof and attach a roll of flexible panels to that, significantly increasing capacity when moored. But my main point is that I'm just surprised that no-one seems to have thought about mounting solar panels on the actual sides of a narrowboat. If I had a narrowboat myself, I would also have panels mounted on the sides, which would be especially useful early morning and late evenings.
@@fulknerra6116 Cheers for that. I had a look at their boat. Plenty of panels on the roof, and being able to walk on them is very handy, but still rather limited because they've not installed panels on the sides. I'm just really surprised that people are really getting into solar narrow boats now, but no-one seems to have thought about side mounted panels yet, to dramatically increase capacity. My apologies if other people are discussing side mounted panels, but I didn't have time to check them all.
@@joules531 Side panels would only be useful on 1/4 mornings or evenings, assuming there are no trees blocking the low morning/evening sun. The panels on the far side of the sun would simply be wasted money every day. The gains from side mounted panels would be truly marginal, and simply not worth the cost. HOWEVER Hinged panels are the way to maximise efficiency. A hinging system that allows side tilting (fwd/aft tilt wouldn't work on a narrowboat) is the way to do it on a canal boat because the mechanical loads are close to zero. The flexible panels have a short life, are more expensive, and can't be hinged.
It's a GREAT idea to put a electrical engine in boats like this. Especially with the lowering of the batterie and solar panel prices. And if someone is a good handyman... easy to diy. And with a silent generator as backup... it's a perfect solution. 👌 BTW... I'm missing your cruising vlogs. But thanks for this one. 🙏
I would love it of someone with a hybrid would film a very long video of a trip up the canals with all the sights and sounds....and no music..just the sounds of water rushing into the locks, the wash from the boat, birds singing, swans demanding, perhaps a hello from a passer-by .
And the odd intriguing snatch of conversation - did I hear right that someone has got something either for or against Teesside University? (It's the aural equivalent of curtain twitching.)
There was something a few years ago, from the series of 'slow TV' programmes. 2 hours on the K&A at the Bristol end, filmed from the bow of a fairly quiet boat. No music or commentary, apart from the occasional informative phrase printed on screen, so you could hear the wildlife, the passing boats, people's conversations, etc. (Sadly, no longer available :-( www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05t7kc1)
Without doubt the most interesting canal boat video I've seen. I must compliment David John on this, a beautifully composed and edited piece of work. If I have a boat built it will most definitely be mainly solar electric with a small diesel backup. Cruising quietly must be delightful
And, talking of diesels, my inner-nerd always pops out when people talk of diesels running on "other" fuels. The diesel engine is named after its inventor, not the fuel. It was designed to run on almost any fuel - that was the whole point of it, it wasn't dependent on highly refined oil. After its invention, the fuel manufacturers developed a fuel designed specifically for the diesel (and called it 'diesel' fuel). So no one should be surprised that a 'diesel' can run on, for instance, waste cooking oil. The real question is why don't we do this a lot more? Why do we waste valuable fossil fuel, and create all that CO2, when we don't have to??
It's mostly a matter of volume. The quantity of waste cooling oil produced per day does not come close to the volume of diesel fuel consumed. Even the busiest restraint is unlikely to produce more than 5-10 gallons of waste vegetable oil per day, but a large truck can burn several times that in the same day. Another potential fossil fuel replacement is Fischer-Tropse (sp?) Diesel, which is made from wood waste such as logging slash. Germany had some commercial scale facilities producing it a decade ago, but I have no idea where the idea went.
Exactly like he said taxes in the US in some states it is illegal to run a diesel on anything except diesel fuel…… for instance if you can get used fryer oil for free they are not collecting taxes on it
There is not enough used cooking oil, for bio diesel, and it is more expensive than diesel, when you can find it. It also has a lower calorific value, like alcohol compared to petrol, so you use much more. You don't win unless you get free cooking oil, from a place near you, and you use the methanol method for the home conversion. The methanol is expensive, and you need a contact in the group who race cars to buy it. The conversion process is time consuming, and tanks, filters and a separator need to be bought or made. Like brewing your own beer, it gets old and you go back to buying the real stuff.
The energy consumed was the big tell. Electric is 90% more efficient That's a big difference. Don't get me wrong you'd need either a MASSIVE battery system or a small genset. I'd be curious what something like the honda inverter 2kw genset would do. Pipe it in similar to the hybrid system and it would be nearly silent, and would consume a lot less fuel. As always, fantastic video!
Oh man, i love the silence. Surely the lack of noise increases the relaxation factor of narrowboating? edit: i posted before watching the entire video. :P
This is more about how the boats are spec'd, you could put a more powerful electric motor in and go faster than the diesel boats. You can put in more batteries and have enough range to go all day.
Brilliant vlog. An interesting comparison. The quiet of electric is a huge selling point, never mind the other environmental aspects, like less use of fossil fuels. Thanks!
Fascinating and very informative, battery technology is most certainly moving faster than the average speed of a canal boat whatever it's form of propulsion.
@@CruisingTheCut are you missing a trick here David? Your videos are easily broadcast quality. I know you probably don't want to get back into all that, but maybe selling the odd video or getting a commission would pay for a new boat - even an electric one?
Charging points are easy to build - there already is electricity almost everywhere. And contrary to popular belief you do not need much power to charge up. E.g. that one boat with the 13kWh battery: that's ~7 hours at 2kW (which is about as much as a water kettle uses), i.e. the battery is easily recharged over night from a normal domestic outlet. Cruising along the motor draws about 2-3kW, so that would be 4-6 hours of continuous cruising from the battery alone - but even on a cloudy day the solar panels will produce some power as well.
Solar and electric drive have got to be the only way forward. We must stop burning stuff asap. The pace of narrowboating makes the infrastructure issue less urgent but just like cars the sooner locations along the way fit fast chargers for boats with electric power the quicker we can be rid of the generator as well.
Another brilliant video David. Electric may be the way forward I suppose, but at the moment I prefer the chug, chug of the narrowboat diesel engine. Have you started saving up then?
I have just found this video. Electric combined with solar is a brilliant idea. I’m sure it will be the way to go for most narrow boats in the not too distant future. I think that the sound of quiet cruising would be pure magic.
The problem is it requires a lot of solar to do this unless you want to sit in one place for five days while you’re waiting to recharge because it is cloudy…..Now solar Using conjunction with either parallel or a hybrid that’s a different story
@@jimmunro4649 In 2021 you can already get solar panels the same size as seen in the video that produce 460 watts instead of the 120 shown, efficiency has massively ramped up especially with the new LG Neon - Version 2 panels. Each solar boat had 12 panels, so 12x460 watts peak efficiency is a lot of electricity (5.52 kW/h), the biggest issue would be storing it at that point.
It seems the perfect use for an electric/hybrid system. There are no weight issues and you can vary the battery storage. If there were plug ins at the popular spots that would help even more. I hate the smell of diesel. All of this is better for our planet as well. It is a tough go with motorcycles because weight is the enemy and there are no solar panels (lol). But for this it is brilliant all around, and way more peaceful. Cam
Hi David, it was me who saw at Rugby boat sales the other day. ( Tiger Lilly) Shame Bumble wasn't about ( James' little dog). However on with the task in hand. I have admired hybrid boats, and for a new boat would be the way to go. What would be very useful is an easily retro fitted setup. For those who have a serviceable engine. It would allow more older boats to go greener, space could be found for a lithium battery pack to supplement electrical capacity. Surely there's a market for such a system.
Harecastle Tunnel used to be electrified. There was an electric tug which used to pull boats through. It did this from the early 1900s until the 1950s when the fan house was built!
@@CruisingTheCut Yea no, until you have a dead battery going thru the middle of it, with no sun to recharge. Then you will wish you had that diesel engine. Diesel electric will always be the best, full electric leaves to many problems.
@Eccentric Smithy That's an absurd scenario - you'd no sooner go through Harecastle with near-flat batteries than you would with an empty diesel tank. Fuel is fuel, regardless, and you wouldn't do such a trip with next to no fuel. Plus that's why all the boats shown had generators of some form on board, since pure solar/electric is non-viable at present.
when I started driving my electric car, I would get halfway to work when I realized I forgot to turn on the music and I was enjoying the silence! I bet the ducks are the loudest thing in the canal
I would like a boat like the Perseverance. Imagine the fun of sneaking up on unsuspecting boaters or the pranks you could play on your friends who won’t hear you coming. Ah well, just a thought even if an unrealistic mischievous one.
Would a stiff panel of flexible poly attached horizontally and angled slightly downward just above the prop on the transom reduce the wasted energy caused by prop wash erupting from the surface, much like 'Dolfins' on an outboard? Seems to be a simple and cheap way to improve efficiency, but, since it hasn't been implemented I would guess there is some draw back I can't envision...
@@grancito2 canal boats are essentially a container with a slightly sharpened bow - the flow to the prop is not great (laminar) and I do not believe there is much to be gained attempting to extract small percentages at the prop.
In answer to Wacholder. In the u tube blog " Sailing Uma", Dan and Kika converted their 49 year old diesel driven 36 foot sailboat to all electric drive. First with their own design DIY electric motor system, then later with a commercially available full electric motor drive system. After they had converted their sail boat to electric drive, they sailed across the Atlantic Ocean from Canada to England in their 36 foot long boat, so should be possible to convert a narrow boat to electric drive.
Can't see much use of electric motor usage sailing the Atlantic, sure coming into harbors or docking purposes, yes, but out at sea, why would you use the electric motor when the wind is blowing ???
The point that I was trying to make was, if rechargeable batteries and an electric motor are reliable enough to cross the Atlantic, when using the sun for recharging the batteries for the electric motor at times when the boat is not under sail or the wind blowing in the wrong direction or not blowing at all. Then all electric canal cruising should be no problem. And yes they did use their electric motor from time to time when crossing the Atlantic Ocean, to assist when changing tack.
I was just thinking yesterday (whilst nipping in and out of my polytunnel) how glad you must be at deciding not to continue with your regular boating vlogs. This heat, and the solo handling of the lock gates would have been a killer. Carry on being careful David.
Even though I drive an EV, I’d prefer to have a multi fuel stove and at least a backup diesel generator. Wouldn’t mind running on batteries but I want to keep options open and maximum freedom.
David I noticed 'Old Nick' had a length of rope which presumably serves as a painter draped across several of the solar panels. Nikki and Jason Wynn of Cruising Sail Channel 'Gone With the Wynn's' performed some experiments with solar panels which revealed that almost any shadow across one or more panels can essentially cause them to cease producing energy!
Cheers, I'm pretty sure they know that but the generation was so poor during the day they probably didn't worry about it (though being a trial, they perhaps should have!)
You dont realize how many birds and crickets there are til you ride an electric boat! As soon as you get back to your boat, your gonna resent the noise. Has anybody tried raising a small wind turbine while parked for night/cloudy recharging? if your anchored in a river, can the current turn the prop to charge the battery?
Wind turbines are unfortunately next to useless for a variety of reasons. As for river flow, generally it's minimal (especially at the side where the boat would be moored) so any generation would be neglible overall.
First of all, I want to express my gratitude for David and his videos. I have dearly missed them. Secondly, one question that was not presented or answered, what are the comparative costs of each system? I would assume the diesel generator was more expensive, but does the lack of diesel expense come close to making up for the difference over time? Thanks David for all your glorious videos and views of the English countryside. Lee
electric in this application does make sense, and the guy broke it down what the power demands of the boats would be and what a panels can give on a bad waether day. and he didnt try to buff anything and was realistic with the numbers. so i can say this would make sense.
Thank you, David. As we move to electric propulsion for vehicles running on land, it's natural that watercraft also make the change. The canal system was built to take advantage of the efficiency of watercraft (large loads moved by one horse) so electric boats are a natural evolution. It's interesting the boats moved by oars were far noisier - not only splashing but grunting and shouting - than the electric narrowboats.
Very interesting David, but beware ! ! ! I fear your wallet may leap from your pocket to the nearest electric boat builder- I'd keep it on a tight leash if I were you...
I am going to as the obvious question. why not have Solar Panels on all side of the boats as well. it is well proven that solar panels will gather energy even in an indirect mode. any sailer knows how much sunburn occurs because of reflected light off the surface of water. If every watt of energy is required then having panels on the massive side of the narrow boat would add power throughout the day. while not as much as the upward facing cells. I have been involved in these experiments and the results were improved as opposed to not having the additional cells. The new cells coming to market will even generate energy during the night time using a different form of light energy.
Panels on the sides would get scratched or even pulled off by tree branches in narrow sections, whichever side wasn't facing the sun would produce negligible output and even the other side would be dim unless you happened to moor in a clear spot (a lot of the canals are tree-lined)
im not a fan of electric motors in general but this... the whole cruising on the canal in complete silence apart from what's around in nature would legit be one of the best things ever
Beautiful !!! Narrow boats seem the perfect match for solar power. Speed is not needed and from what I've seen, undesirable in light of the leisurely pace of the life style. Noise is a distraction from the beauty of the trip. I've never understood why the narrow boats do not use "water-cooled" exhaust systems, which produces a pleasant burbling sound at the rear of the boat, as is common on quality boats in the USA. Instead most narrow boats sound like junky old farm tractors putting away as they go along. With solar coming into usage, advocating water-cooled exhausts seems a moot point now. Peace and quiet at last. Now narrow boating can truly be a pastoral experience like it should be.
As someone who is designing two electric narrowboats this video is GOLDEN. My own independant assesment seems bang on with the serial hybrids both in generator and battery sizes. Having a small battery bank shows its shortcomings in Perseverance and the need to have huge capacity where you can only us 50% of the storarge in lead acid tech. Ours will have 48v 400Ah Lifepo4 in one boat with basic systems and 800 in one with a high volume of AC services. It is also comforting in seeing a 10kW motor is enough for most scenarios. One suprise was the small amout of solar on (relatively) low power flexible panels. On a river with less than 2kW installed solar, floating the driving load, even on the sunniest of days, on a river,seems extremely optimistic. On the day you could see the drain on your control panel shot. Again, David has shown his vidoeo journolistic chops. Well thought out and well produced.
I don't know if you were aware of this but here's a tip I found from german gearheads into electric bikes; Lithium batteries can actually be REUSED. and based on that you can assemble your own perfectly good second life battery at fraction of the cost of a new one. we're talking 50-100€ instead of 800-1000€ for new one (prices for electric bike battery pack). What you do is basically source throwaway battery packs (from recycling yards and such, in most cases they just dispose of lithium batteries as recycling isnt economically feasable), you get them cheap like 0.25€ per battery (not pack). then you open them up to expose individual lithium batteries, you test them with a voltmeter. some 50% are gonna be goosed, but the other 50% are gonna be good. then you basically spot-weld or splice them together into a new pack. you build a charge controller - and that's it! Anyways hope that helps!
"On a river with less than 2kW installed solar, floating the driving load [...] seems extremely optimistic" Didn't quite get what you mean here: Are you saying a larger pack lets you store up charge from the grid rather than relying entirely on solar during the day? Or is this some electrical terminology I'm not familiar with? Also, what made you go for Lithium Iron over Ion? Cost, or safety concerns?
I suspect that the cost in money, space, and weight, of the diesel systems and charger units on the serial hybrids could be replaced by bigger batteries and they'd come out ahead. It looks like even the boat with the most solar on the roof had enough room for a couple more flexible panels. Even if it's not eternally self sustaining, it's my understanding you guys pop into a marina from time to time and they could charge to full overnight on those occasions. Anyway, a couple years ago I was pretty certain all electric narrow boating was on the horizon. It's good to see some people are doing professional installations now.
I am assured by the boaters that they put on as much solar as was practical / wanted. Bear in mind many narrowboaters use the roof for storage. Marina charging would be expensive as you’d have to pay the overnight mooring fee (typically £10-£20 a night) plus electricity fees.
@@CruisingTheCut That's interesting, that electricity wouldn't be included in such high charges? CRT charge £6 per night at Llangollen, and water/electricity is included. Marinas are the logical pre-existing network for charging, perhaps they could add canal-side linear mooring with charging points, for passing boaters.
I'm not sure what you mean by a "local supply" when you're in a marina; the supply is the bollards at the end of each mooring pontoon and those are owned by the marina. So if you want to plug in, you pay their rate. It would charge through your own onboard charger but the supply is via the marina.
One thing that has always put me off a canal boat is the noise, smell and mess associated with a diesel. On a sailboat you can cut the engine for the majority of the trip
Nissan Leaf e-cars are now ten years old so many have become scrap, their battery pack of 48x 8V DC Li-ion batteries (384v total when all wired in series so be careful handling them) are becoming a source of cheap li-ion packs to build battery banks for everything from custom e cars, to home power walls to run 240v inverters, charged from wind turbines and solar cells, etc. lots of YT videos on re-using Nissan Leaf batteries and motors. Another use would be powering narrow boats.
LiFePo4 Batteries are better. Mostly even cheaper then used car batteries. Can not burn, Are very stable and robust to use. A bit heavier and larger the Li-Ion but who cares in a boat?
@@wolfgangpreier9160 Sounds good if you can get them cheaper than scrap leaf batteries. dont forget theres a good chance of a good leaf motor and control system included in a leaf wreck
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
At last, the final report has been released! See www.ortomarine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Ortomarine-Narrowboat-Trial-Final-Report.pdf
whats to stop you being attacked by robbers at night or stealing your whole boat
Very interesting, thank you! I like it very much that the results are presented in clear terms at front.
@@iftikharhussain4715 The question "what's to stop" implies that is the norm. Most boaters are cautious about where they stop for the night. The only real problem I've seen in narrowboat videos from UK are groups of unruly youths who harass. And the occasional nighttime theft who dont want to be discovered usually. But that isn't even a monthly or probably not even yearly problem for UK boaters.
What country are you in? Maybe you're thinking canal bandits are everywhere like bandits are everywhere in other regions of the world.
It would be nice to have seen what it looks like inside the boats and the kind of room they have.
@Kurt C That was totally not the point of the video. This was not a look at the boat layouts, it was focusing on the trials day and the electric engines vs diesel.
Canal boats seem like a great idea for solar electric. They don't need to go fast. They don't need to go far. They have plenty of surface area for panels and plenty of space for batteries which can even act as ballast. And if moorings have power outlets then you could even top up if you had to, or just moor and charge from the sun.
This is the most straight to the point and positive reply on here......and technically correct! Thanks
I am not a scientist nor am I a mathematician.
If we were solely talking boats here I don't think the conversation would be taking place plus I don't totally believe the combustion engine is really the deal breaker. I just feel this is another Neon/Halogen moment where we were all told to buy it but they already knew Led was the future.
I am intelligent enough to know that if we sit back and do nothing the Earth will take care of itself, we are already witnessing that where icbergs are breaking off and glaciers calving so as to cool down its oceans, ( are you with me ). The Earth has adjusted and evolved since the beginning I don't ned to tell you this but I think there is a better way forward than electricity I'm not sure what but I am sure Tesla and others has to get back their input first.
Having lived on a 60ft narrowboat I would have gladly traded the diesel engine for solar panels and a leccy motor.
@@goldielocks2621 I'm afraid that view isn't really supported by science. While the Earth does cycle in temperature naturally (e.g., the ice ages), we are out of sync for the Earth to be warming up this quickly naturally, and from things such as ice core samples, we can see that the Earth has never warmed up this quickly either.
Very informative thank you
Electric propulsion seems to actually be very well suited to narrowboating in principle. Weight isn't really a concern so the battery can be quite large if need be. Lots of roof surface area for solar, a steady slow pace throughout with little sudden peaks of powers needed, and a constant vicinity to infrastructure in the rare case of running out of power.
There's also a lot less risk, if the battery explodes as newer tech lithium batteries can do, or you get into a crash, you're on a river... You don't need 24 hours of the fire service pumping water over it to cool the lithium fire down and stop a hole being melted in the road, like with electric car accidents.
If you run out of power just tie up the boat for a few hours and it'll recharge enough even on overcast days.
Weight can't be ignored and neither can the current in particular on Rivers or coastal waterways. It would not be wise to depend completely on electric power just yet I think.
@@soviut303 ever tried using solar power in the UK in winter? I have 800w on my boat roof and the output in winter is pitiful.
@@fireman-phil7307 Just take a generator for the rare times you need it. Its essnetially a hybrid. My home solar still output 1.5kw of electricity on a rainly cloudy day yesterdy btw....
as an electrical engineer considering buying and living on a narrowboat, I found this video incredibly interesting. It's also making me consider 'steering' my career in the direction of canal boat and EV propulsion installation. Thank you!
I think maybe the only thing lacking are charging stations. If the canal trust and marinas would install fast charging at water/sanitation stops the adoption of all electric could happen at a much faster pace.
It just dawned on me why narrowboats are, at least for me, so much more beautiful than caravans or sailboats. It's the speed. Just puttering along at a few miles an hour, relaxing, taking in the sights and senses. Heck if I could drive a convertible camper at 3 miles an hour across the U.S. on a special scenic, meandering road... well I'd be totally down for that.
It's the Art of the 'Saunter'. Many people just can't do it. An ex GF of mine, a hiker, could not manage a saunter along a riverbank for more than 30 seconds before she was itching to speed up. Saunters don't care about the clock. A true saunter can take ten minutes to cover 100 yards, with 'stops of appreciation' as you pass interesting things. Drove her crazy!
But try skippering one on a rainy day and having to get somewhere by a time. Maybe for work next day, seams the fun goes out of it until the next sunny day.
Spent years boat and it seams the UK's weather has it organised to rain, when ever we came to moor up.
PS I remember driving a convertible through the North California Red Woods, it was great and I even paid a dollar to drive through a Red Wood Tree. This was back in the 1980 when Pan Am did Fly Drive Holidays.
@@terencejay8845 both my wife and daughter are fast walkers, always walking slightly ahead of me - even when I speed up! I walk fast when I need to, but otherwise I want to enjoy the 'journey'. Often, when I get home from a walk along the same route they would have taken earlier, I ask if they saw this or that, and they rarely have.
Must be fantastic to wind down so easily in such lovely surroundings.
Very interesting here in Germany on the resivior Edersee you can only use electric motors. Have a lovely evening.
This video is a perfect example of why we can't let David quit vlogging cold turkey. I mean, who else is going to bring this much-needed attention to the huffing and puffing of displaced swans (not to mention the rowers)? And how can you not view sneaking up on ducklings and fishermen as a plus?
"Shhhhh, see that duck up there? We're going to sneak up on it and blow the horn real loud. That never gets old."
Seriously, it really does seem like a diesel-electric hybrid is the smartest solution out there (especially if you're running said diesel on used cooking oil). Maybe one day the tech will be available where you could continuously cruise on solar power alone, but if you have to sit and charge for days after cruising for only a few hours that day isn't likely to be anytime soon.
Running the diesel on used cooking oil ??? L.O.L. tried that in my 4 WD, folks complained of the fish chips smell making them hungry.
@@itchyvet 😆 The last trip I made in the Kenworth before leaving the trucking gig was with biodiesel. That turbo Cummins ran just fine. I wish it did smell like fish & chips, but alas it was the same diesel stink.
@@itchyvet now I'm hungry for fish and chips just because you said that.
But in all fairness I should point out that I'm never really NOT in the mood for fish and chips, so there's that...
They just need to put fast chargers outside of the locks, you can charge while you're waiting for your turn
here on the Burgundy Canal, they used an electric tug boat to clear a very long tunnel. it entered service in... 1893. Yes, the century is correct. it got its energy from an hydroelectric station.
so electric boats are not that new. quite the contrary, in fact : )
Your title 'all on your bike ', very funny 👍
"Episode 245 - Shopping for electric narrowboats" 😂
I was thinking the same lol.
Electric just seems so much better for narrowboats
@@radders261 That's three of us! What a lovely way to travel ~ no other word for it!
I agree, so long as there is adequate space for a good solar array on top, electric just makes sense, I don't see it working nearly as well on almost any other boat design, but for narrow boas, electric is the obvious choice for me.
yes, when we bought our first narrowboat with a much loved lister engine, it was to noisy on the back deck to enjoy the peaceful tranquil setting that you travel through. Electric all the way.
Awesome episode David - more like this please :)
so over 10x the cost of making this happen, yes this fake green energy cost more on the your fake carbon footprint
Yup! I love solar and love even more when people adapt it to things such as narrowboats. It's so ingenious!
Nice.
Very interesting.
If you're ever in the Berchtesgaden area, take a trip on the Königsee out to the monastery at Skt Bartholomae.
The fleet of water buses is all electric. Superbly quiet even with 40 odd passengers on board.
Afik these are all traditional, lead acid charged overnight from the mains, just like the old milk floats.
So you're preaching to the converted here.
Why are the passengers quiet?
Have ridden those multiple times. Never got to hear the canon fire, but only the trumpet being played out in the middle. Anything other than electric would ruin the setting.
@@grancito2 awestruck
If I had a narrowboat I would prefer the electric route for the pure pleasure of silence and listening to nature sounds and to sneak up on the Piano Boat whilst piano is being played.
It's the perfect application for hybrids! I expect that most boats spend more days parked than moving, so lots of time to charge the batteries. And when docked for long periods, no gas purchases.
I would GLADLY pay a premium for the quiet and zero fumes you get from an electric boat.
That is an absolute NO BRAINER !
Yes but don’t you dare tell the rest of us by building a new boat, you are using less energy and doing less harm than restoring an old one. It is a huge big ugly lie, whether you admit it to Yourself or not. And you are just making it someone else’s problem, where rare Earth magnets are extracted. Or the steel is made
@@sre331l diesel was the answer to petrol engines...bringing they're own problems..now it's batteries mined in places where people are treated appallingly....we care how our coffee arrives in our homes and turn a blind eye to kids being used to mine lithium.....
@@alanleahy2047 not to forget the destruction caused during the mining of lithium, and the fact these types of batteries are useless when worn out and don't degrade very quickly.
The electric boats will get to move on BOTH sunny days in English summer.
Hahahaha true
:DDDD
😊😊😊 Tee-Hee!
Don't know if you noticed, but we're getting a lot of sunny days in recent years, and certainly this year. At least in the Midlands.
@@christinerigden1403 If you want more sunny days, burn more coal........ why go to the tropics, when you can bring the tropics to you?.......
Does an electric narrow boat make the cheese sandwiches taste different?
Thankfully, no
Of course it will, no diesel fume to flavor the cheese.
@@CruisingTheCut 🧀🤣👍
Depends how you toast them - electrically or with diesel.😉
I went on a canal boat holiday once, the only thing to spoil it was the noise of the engine, which, after a while, began to reverberate in my skull. Electric seems the way to go.
I want a diesel electric. (like a locomotive) and then I want to discover a hidden canal no one else have found because that exists in my mind (although totally impossible in the real world) and then I want to hide out there all winter with a stove blazing. an improbable big water tank and stash of food. :D and of course a killer internet connection. I suppose it would have to be a secret canal, much like the train platform in Harry Potter.
you could always dig yourself a pond and place your boat there.
You have to race, full steam, at lock number 9 3/4 ...
There are some old canals not in use in Devon
@@quentint8742 What a waste!
The Stafford Riverway Link fits that bill www.gofundme.com/f/stafford-riverway-link-basin-amp-bridge-project?fbclid=IwAR0zMnQ-j457an1ypjlzvtBzxZQ7smuYd_5TjVvSN45AzRXUOa1FvOqg9hY
Hi David, back safe and sound from having your jaunt on the Wash. I loved the video of the Steinway grand piano on the wide beam in London.
My boat is a hybrid. Beta 43 Diesel engine with an electric engine, all expertly put together by Hybrid Marine. I have 17 hours of battery power to use as “Go Juice”, so if my Diesel engine fails I can navigate to a safe haven. Well, that’s the theory. My boat was built in 2014. People can’t hear me coming when I use the electric (and most of them say the Diesel engine is ultra quiet and difficult to hear).
Stay Safe!
Ah, cheers - good to hear input from existing hybrid boat owners, thank you.
Well with a proper muffler IC engines can get really really quiet, so much that most of the noise you hear from a car while revving low is the wheels rolling on the asphalt and luxury cars add artificial noise so the engine sounds powerful instead of being almost absent.
Partly due to canals being quieter than the road and that a good number of folk find the puttering of the engine pleasant, I believe narrowboats both sound louder because they stand out more and manufacturers don't really aim to eliminate the noise entirely because in designing the muffler they wanted to preserve some engine noise.
It's the perfect application for hybrids! I expect that most boats spend more days parked than moving, so lots of time to charge the batteries. And when docked for long periods, no gas purchases.
True!
One problem - sun - it’s the UK - there is no sun.
@@rupert5390 still quite bright even when overcast, and most boaters aren't really power users anyway.
I know you said this was not a "scientific" survey but this looked like a very comprehensive comparison of the different propulsion systems. A terrific effort by all concerned.
Perhaps not scientific, but a valuable comparison under real-world conditions. These are results that current and future boat owners can understand and use.
I’d say the approach was quite scientiffic. However, for an officially recognized study, you’d need more boats and they’d have to do the same stretch of river/canal several times. Perhaps even with different helmspeople. As it is, you have an indication. What I just described there would amount to statistical verification.
Delightful. Electric propulsion was perfect for something already a wonderful way to travel, made for these wonderful boats.
For myself, if I cruise for 3hrs in a day I’ve had quite a long days travel. I may then haul up for 2 weeks. The greatest benefit of electric then kicks in because I would then have a massive battery and electrical generation capability. Travelling is probably less important to me than most with living off grid being the most important part of narrow boating.
It's amazing! I have never thought of your boat being necessarily loud, David, but being able to hear every note of the passing birdsong is remarkable and a reminder of just how much noise we produce doing seemingly innocuous events. Have you put in an order?
We are building an electric boat currently will be showcasing it at crick this year
As you build boats, I have always wondered why water can't be taken from the canal and filtered? They have brilliant filtration systems on American Motor Homes and can plug in to very dirty water off grid if needs be?....
@ Fireman-Phil There are such systems and I know of one narrowboat with it but they take up valuable space and aren't really necessary as there are plenty of water points around the network.
@@fireman-phil7307read the comment below 👍
Will you be coming to crick this year
@@fireman-phil7307 I wouldn't want to drink canal water, filtered or not! There's more in there than just weed and old tyres... Back in the 60s, we had a family camping holiday following the Thames to its source, and we drank the river water at each camping site - both filtering it and adding a tablet of some sort(?) to purify it. It was horrible! Even in tea and stews you could taste it. The holiday had to be abandoned half way through when my sister was taken ill and the hospital told us it was pnumonia! I don't think this was actually connected to drinking the river water, but it was the only time I've been glad to go home early from a holiday!
Sounds like the electric boat is a possible way forward in boating because they are gas guzzlers running on diesel all day, plus it's better for the environment and quieter.
Perfect for narrowboats, enjoying nature in silence, listening to the birds and the wind in the trees :o) Lovely.
Maybe people like rattling of diesel engines. I do...
@Agent Smith You don't need 3 phase; just a normal household socket would be fine to charge a narrowboat overnight. And no, there aren't any of those other than at marinas but that's why the current generation of electric boats have solar and onboard generators.
@Agent Smith Every marina I've ever been to has a 16A, 240V hookup at the end of every single pontoon for every single boat. So multiple boats could certainly charge overnight.
As for solar, it's much more than a trickle charge as this video demonstrates. Even on this rainy day, one of the narrowboats made 2.9kW on a journey requiring 10kW so, as explained in the commentary, it would require another two similar days without motion to generate the balance of power used. The battery bank doesn't need to recharge from empty to full, just to fill up whatever was used on the last journey or needed for the next.
But yes, outside summer this would take longer hence why all the boats have generators - but it is much more efficient to use a generator working at optimal efficiency than a diesel motor pushing a boat at canal speeds.
I can well imagine that cruising through a narrow tunnel and not being choked by diesel fumes would be a definite plus.
And down in the locks too!
Absolutely
@@jaqui0806 Down in the locks would be bad enough it's true, but you can climb out of a lock.
I run my 5m launch on electric. Everything a narrowboat isn't - deep V hull with concrete ballast (for rough water), never fitted out the cabin. Strictly day trips. Lives on a trailer and is charged off domestic mains at the end of the day. However many passengers comment that it's quiet - you hear the sound of the water slapping against the hull instead of the roar of an engine. No fumes. One thing I notice is the fumes when someone with a 2 stroke outboard comes near. On my boat, I don't get any extra speed putting more than about 2.8kw into the motor. I just draw more power making bigger waves. I converted the boat when the 2 cylinder, 2 stoke engine was unrepairable after years of storage at my father's place.
Wasn't the Broads Authority pushing electric boating quite hard for several years? - providing charging facilities at mooring places ?. How's that working in practice?. One thing I remember from our 4-day hire on the Broads was the smell of diesel through the boat. I would have lept at an electric option, but they didn't offer such things back then.
I can charge our electric car on a 13amp socket anywhere in the UK, so if I visit my parents (who sadly don't have an electric car) then I can plug in and by the morning I have full 'tank'. Narrow boats should be really well suited to this 'slow' charge approach, so there really doesn't need to be the infrastructure changes that have been needed to build 'Rapid' chargers for cars in the UK.
@@videogalore
Don't forget that if every narrowboater changes to electric...
there will have to be more charge points, either rapid charge or slower chargers...
to cope with "everyone"...
Using a huge battery on shore, slowly charged off-peak or by solar array, to then rapidly charge multiple boats over the normal day...
may give the best of both worlds....
@@videogalore I agree. From the video they seemed to do the whole trip on 10kwh, a granny charger (13amp socket restricted to 10amp) would charge that in 4 hours.
What a breathe of fresh air this video is
Certainly quiet air...
What's funny is ...here in the u.s there using the tesla which is great BUT...BUT..you still have these stupid kids blasting there radios so you can't think straight. Here lies another problem. Quiet efficient engines, blasting radios ...not making to much sense. But then again ....humans
As an American, it's so interesting to see these narrow "canals" and manual hand operated locks. I'd love to visit the UK one day ^_^
Hi there Bud ! -You OK fella I have been looking into your American Canals ? - Believe it or not ?
- Linking the Big Lakes together - Gotta say that I cannot believe the size of some your Canals comparing them with our Canals - Its like your freeways being compared with our 'A' Roads ? - So wide - One Day I would love to travel your canals One day !
Love the loop system too !
All the Very Best S.B. ( Just up the Road from the Leeds Liverpool Canal) British Isles
Just wait until you could have a boat with solar and a few days of battery power aboard, and decent fast chargers at marinas and other mooring points along the banks. Seems like a grand idea to me!
The other benefit of quiet cruising is how quiet it is for people in the cabin whilst underway. With a diesel it is almost unbearable!
Yes indeed! And smoother too.
@@CruisingTheCut If its a cruiser or semi trad, the noise inside is less than a trad and diesels aren't too bad in that configuration - I quite enjoy the quiet throbbing. Saying, I'd be intrigued to try an electric.
Our semi trad has a quiet engine with a hospital silencer, and at a relaxed cruising speed is a quite pleasant hum inside (round about 'G' on the scale!) But all the other benefits of electric are very appealing. :-)
Do electric boats dream of electric swans?
The American entry would have had a 12 cylinder gasoline engine, no mufflers, and large chrome exhaust stacks. 😃
Backed up by artillery. 🤣
And would be rolling coal!!
the 12 cylider would be italian, the US version would be a large block 8 cylinder!
You Forget the "Truck-nutz", a few machine guns and enough flags to turn it into a sailboat :)
Don't you mean a jet engine? It won't help propulsion as we've seen from the Grand Tour with Clarkson, May, and Hammond, but it will be very noisy! :D
I always did think that if I were to go "narrow boating" that the engine noise would drive me crazier than I already am. Loved the video.
A family member works for BP's electric charging arm.
I asked if there would be any interest from BP to install charging points on canals, where there was easy access to high voltage supplies. My thinking being that a lot of canal runs alongside railways.
His answer was "not a chance". His reason being, there was no money in it. You can only make money from charging of it's "attached" to a retail outlet that will help you spend money while you wait!
Shame ☹️
I was just rewatching your videos and wondering “when will a new video be posted” when lo and behold a new crusing the cut video! My day just got much better!
Crushing the cut? Poor canals! Stop molesting them! - SCNR! Still, you aren't wrong, have been re-watching older vids (including Van-Videos on Vandemonium!) and was waiting for a new one, too!
@@dreamingflurry2729 yeah I watch vandeminum too. I just started watching the van videos recently
Well done David! I said it before but I will say it again, the new format you are using to create content is wonderful. Granted I would watch you sort sunflower seeds from smallest to largest but I appreciate the truly interesting content.
Yes, but what would he do when one seed is fatter, but the other is longer.... so the drama!
@@princezzpuffypants6287 even more reason to watch David! ;)
Wow people are vehemently against electric anything. So much passion, so little research.
Their scepticism is justified IMO. There's a lot of loose public money swishing around green tech, so some pretty terrible ideas end up getting funded.
Research tends to find that electric motors aren't great for moving boats around.
@@73BigMC what research? The research in this video showed it was 10x more efficient.
@@73BigMC really because virtually all new ships are electric motors nowadays.
Range. Cost. Longevity. Diesel wins hands down in each category.
I'm following your, and other narrowboaters, vlogs a few years now. Of course I've seen everything! But you make me wrong again! This was an absolute new angel of the narrowboating. Whats next? I'll wait and see.
More torque less noise. What’s not to like
Range and weight. Electric motors is awesome, but not perfect
@@AllNamesWasTakenlol Not yet
Price
Torque?
Electric is the future, who wants to listen to the rubble of engine or smell the awful fumes. You want to listen and be part of the nature.
I go to Newfoundland from the Tyne twice a year .How would I do that with an Eclectic motor
It's wild to think that these 'modern' versions are using the same setup that German u boats in WWII at the turn of last century were using.
This is quality stuff. It's a relatively small thing when compared to the pollution from heavy industry and whatnot, but any and all movements to green energy is worth the trouble. Hell, even if this doesn't shave off a bit of the global pollution problem, the fact you can have a nearly silent boat that doesn't need to fill up (and potentially spill) fuel and doesn't stink up the place is great for enjoyers of wildlife
Great video. We have 8 panels on our house providing 2.2 kilowatts and they cover about half our electric use. Most of the boats have around 12 panels.
Hey, don’t tell Jo and Michael they have a rival boat named Perseverance.
I looked in the comments just for this. I didn't realize that boat names weren't "registered" or whatever the proper term.
I've seen a few different "Perseverances" on vlogs - often simply moored up as the vlogger passes by. There was one of historical note from 1911 I think. I'm guessing that could lead to a few others using the same name.
Solar panels seem like a good idea, but I'm surprised nobody seems to have thought of mounting panels on the sides, or indeed covering the full length of the roof. There's also the possibility of having a flexible array (imagine a long but narrow awning) that could be erected alongside a moored boat, a bit like the awnings you see on camper vans. The solar panels fitted to the electric boats in the video look like they're only using a fraction of the potential available space, so, with more work, the gap between solar power produced, and solar power used, could be eliminated, even on a dull day.
And of course, with solar panels becoming both cheaper and more efficient, this has to be the future.
search "narrow boat 'Shine'." most of your answers are there, and the answers to most of the queries in other comments below the line.
An array that sticks out over the towpath or the canal would be very much in the way so not really practical. Many boaters use the roof for storage hence some area left “unpanelled”.
@@CruisingTheCut Ah, no. I wasn't suggesting people hang a solar array over the towpath, or the canal. There's often a strip of grass between the moored boat and the actual towpath. I've often seen boaters set up chairs and tables on this strip of land, and this is the bit of land I was referring to. Even if there wasn't a strip of land, you could have some brackets along the edge of roof and attach a roll of flexible panels to that, significantly increasing capacity when moored.
But my main point is that I'm just surprised that no-one seems to have thought about mounting solar panels on the actual sides of a narrowboat. If I had a narrowboat myself, I would also have panels mounted on the sides, which would be especially useful early morning and late evenings.
@@fulknerra6116 Cheers for that. I had a look at their boat. Plenty of panels on the roof, and being able to walk on them is very handy, but still rather limited because they've not installed panels on the sides.
I'm just really surprised that people are really getting into solar narrow boats now, but no-one seems to have thought about side mounted panels yet, to dramatically increase capacity.
My apologies if other people are discussing side mounted panels, but I didn't have time to check them all.
@@joules531 Side panels would only be useful on 1/4 mornings or evenings, assuming there are no trees blocking the low morning/evening sun. The panels on the far side of the sun would simply be wasted money every day.
The gains from side mounted panels would be truly marginal, and simply not worth the cost.
HOWEVER
Hinged panels are the way to maximise efficiency. A hinging system that allows side tilting (fwd/aft tilt wouldn't work on a narrowboat) is the way to do it on a canal boat because the mechanical loads are close to zero. The flexible panels have a short life, are more expensive, and can't be hinged.
I personally know nothing about boats, these look like Trains on the water. They are pretty.
It's a GREAT idea to put a electrical engine in boats like this.
Especially with the lowering of the batterie and solar panel prices.
And if someone is a good handyman...
easy to diy.
And with a silent generator as backup...
it's a perfect solution. 👌
BTW... I'm missing your cruising vlogs.
But thanks for this one. 🙏
I specially left in some silent cruising bits to give this a bit of a cruising video feel :-)
I would love it of someone with a hybrid would film a very long video of a trip up the canals with all the sights and sounds....and no music..just the sounds of water rushing into the locks, the wash from the boat, birds singing, swans demanding, perhaps a hello from a passer-by .
And the odd intriguing snatch of conversation - did I hear right that someone has got something either for or against Teesside University? (It's the aural equivalent of curtain twitching.)
There was something a few years ago, from the series of 'slow TV' programmes. 2 hours on the K&A at the Bristol end, filmed from the bow of a fairly quiet boat. No music or commentary, apart from the occasional informative phrase printed on screen, so you could hear the wildlife, the passing boats, people's conversations, etc. (Sadly, no longer available :-( www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05t7kc1)
Without doubt the most interesting canal boat video I've seen. I must compliment David John on this, a beautifully composed and edited piece of work. If I have a boat built it will most definitely be mainly solar electric with a small diesel backup. Cruising quietly must be delightful
Glad you enjoyed it!
And, talking of diesels, my inner-nerd always pops out when people talk of diesels running on "other" fuels. The diesel engine is named after its inventor, not the fuel. It was designed to run on almost any fuel - that was the whole point of it, it wasn't dependent on highly refined oil. After its invention, the fuel manufacturers developed a fuel designed specifically for the diesel (and called it 'diesel' fuel). So no one should be surprised that a 'diesel' can run on, for instance, waste cooking oil. The real question is why don't we do this a lot more? Why do we waste valuable fossil fuel, and create all that CO2, when we don't have to??
It's mostly a matter of volume. The quantity of waste cooling oil produced per day does not come close to the volume of diesel fuel consumed. Even the busiest restraint is unlikely to produce more than 5-10 gallons of waste vegetable oil per day, but a large truck can burn several times that in the same day.
Another potential fossil fuel replacement is Fischer-Tropse (sp?) Diesel, which is made from wood waste such as logging slash. Germany had some commercial scale facilities producing it a decade ago, but I have no idea where the idea went.
Exactly like he said taxes in the US in some states it is illegal to run a diesel on anything except diesel fuel…… for instance if you can get used fryer oil for free they are not collecting taxes on it
There is not enough used cooking oil, for bio diesel, and it is more expensive than diesel, when you can find it. It also has a lower calorific value, like alcohol compared to petrol, so you use much more. You don't win unless you get free cooking oil, from a place near you, and you use the methanol method for the home conversion. The methanol is expensive, and you need a contact in the group who race cars to buy it. The conversion process is time consuming, and tanks, filters and a separator need to be bought or made. Like brewing your own beer, it gets old and you go back to buying the real stuff.
Excellent point. I hadn't thought about that before. Thanks for enlightening me.
Lack of infrastructure is probably the key factor. Not a lot of biodiesel suppliers (yet).
I'd watch anything just to hear your perfect speech. I do miss laughing with you however.
Yes I miss goofy David too! Love his humor
The energy consumed was the big tell. Electric is 90% more efficient That's a big difference. Don't get me wrong you'd need either a MASSIVE battery system or a small genset. I'd be curious what something like the honda inverter 2kw genset would do. Pipe it in similar to the hybrid system and it would be nearly silent, and would consume a lot less fuel. As always, fantastic video!
not 90 % but 900 %
Oh man, i love the silence. Surely the lack of noise increases the relaxation factor of narrowboating? edit: i posted before watching the entire video. :P
It really did for me on this trip
Another stellar piece of reportage (to say nothing of post production)! Thanks very much.
Thank you!
This is more about how the boats are spec'd, you could put a more powerful electric motor in and go faster than the diesel boats. You can put in more batteries and have enough range to go all day.
Brilliant vlog. An interesting comparison. The quiet of electric is a huge selling point, never mind the other environmental aspects, like less use of fossil fuels. Thanks!
does it use less he said it was 10% efficient so that's 5 times more diesel and fumes
I said the diesel engined boats were measures to run at 10% efficiency, so the electric boats use significantly less fuel.
Us ungrateful colonials would busy ourselves trying to shoehorn a V8 engine into a narrowboat so we could water ski behind it..
I don't think you could get a narrow boat to go fast enough to water ski displacement hull problems
@@bensmith4563 That's the next video; 'How fast can you make a narrowboat go.'
@@terencejay8845 If I remember it's about 8-10 knots when off the canal. Maybe... don't hold me to that. Most are slower.
I notice prices weren't mentioned. I'm guessing the electric/hybrid ones aren't cheaper ;)
Fascinating and very informative, battery technology is most certainly moving faster than the average speed of a canal boat whatever it's form of propulsion.
FYI - on More 4 tonight at 9pm there is a programme all about the musical boat your video was on last time out - Rachmaninov
Cheers, yes I'll be watching :-)
@@CruisingTheCut are you missing a trick here David? Your videos are easily broadcast quality. I know you probably don't want to get back into all that, but maybe selling the odd video or getting a commission would pay for a new boat - even an electric one?
It’s inevitable. It’s actually odd that diesel is still dominant after so long.
David, Thank you for creating this video. It is a good bit of history on what is to come and what will be.
You are very welcome
Until the canal [and river] system installs charging points at regular interval the only option for me would be a Diesel/Electric hybred.
You could stay every other night at a marina charging up over night but a generator would be a nice insurance policy, and heat source in the winter.
Charging points are easy to build - there already is electricity almost everywhere. And contrary to popular belief you do not need much power to charge up. E.g. that one boat with the 13kWh battery: that's ~7 hours at 2kW (which is about as much as a water kettle uses), i.e. the battery is easily recharged over night from a normal domestic outlet.
Cruising along the motor draws about 2-3kW, so that would be 4-6 hours of continuous cruising from the battery alone - but even on a cloudy day the solar panels will produce some power as well.
Solar and electric drive have got to be the only way forward. We must stop burning stuff asap. The pace of narrowboating makes the infrastructure issue less urgent but just like cars the sooner locations along the way fit fast chargers for boats with electric power the quicker we can be rid of the generator as well.
Another brilliant video David. Electric may be the way forward I suppose, but at the moment I prefer the chug, chug of the narrowboat diesel engine. Have you started saving up then?
Slowly!
I have just found this video. Electric combined with solar is a brilliant idea. I’m sure it will be the way to go for most narrow boats in the not too distant future. I think that the sound of quiet cruising would be pure magic.
Be long way off range for one. Battery just not that good
The problem is it requires a lot of solar to do this unless you want to sit in one place for five days while you’re waiting to recharge because it is cloudy…..Now solar Using conjunction with either parallel or a hybrid that’s a different story
@@jimmunro4649 In 2021 you can already get solar panels the same size as seen in the video that produce 460 watts instead of the 120 shown, efficiency has massively ramped up especially with the new LG Neon - Version 2 panels. Each solar boat had 12 panels, so 12x460 watts peak efficiency is a lot of electricity (5.52 kW/h), the biggest issue would be storing it at that point.
Makes note to self: If David calls me "crew" then I'm labour. If David calls me a "passenger" then I sip tea while he does all the work.
Haha true
@@CruisingTheCut
You scuppered yourself with that one!
On any further recruitment drives for "crew", you'll have to find less attentitive volunteers.
Can't the electric manufacturers make the electric go chug-chug? :)
With a suitable loudspeaker set up maybe!
Wow.. it was the tunnel section in the video that really shows ow quiet they can be.
Agreed!
It seems the perfect use for an electric/hybrid system. There are no weight issues and you can vary the battery storage. If there were plug ins at the popular spots that would help even more. I hate the smell of diesel. All of this is better for our planet as well. It is a tough go with motorcycles because weight is the enemy and there are no solar panels (lol). But for this it is brilliant all around, and way more peaceful. Cam
Hi David, it was me who saw at Rugby boat sales the other day. ( Tiger Lilly) Shame Bumble wasn't about ( James' little dog).
However on with the task in hand.
I have admired hybrid boats, and for a new boat would be the way to go.
What would be very useful is an easily retro fitted setup. For those who have a serviceable engine.
It would allow more older boats to go greener, space could be found for a lithium battery pack to supplement electrical capacity.
Surely there's a market for such a system.
Yes, I was miffed not to meet the dog too! Nice to see you.
There are places around for DIY electric car conversions, so I guess they would be well aligned with the Q&A's - zero-ev.co.uk/
I imagine this be of tremendous advantage in such tunnels as Harecastle.
Absolutely
Harecastle Tunnel used to be electrified. There was an electric tug which used to pull boats through. It did this from the early 1900s until the 1950s when the fan house was built!
@@CruisingTheCut Yea no, until you have a dead battery going thru the middle of it, with no sun to recharge. Then you will wish you had that diesel engine. Diesel electric will always be the best, full electric leaves to many problems.
@Eccentric Smithy That's an absurd scenario - you'd no sooner go through Harecastle with near-flat batteries than you would with an empty diesel tank. Fuel is fuel, regardless, and you wouldn't do such a trip with next to no fuel. Plus that's why all the boats shown had generators of some form on board, since pure solar/electric is non-viable at present.
when I started driving my electric car, I would get halfway to work when I realized I forgot to turn on the music and I was enjoying the silence! I bet the ducks are the loudest thing in the canal
The loudest thing on the canal becomes other boats. It's quite useful on the Severn when everything is overtaking you.
I would like a boat like the Perseverance. Imagine the fun of sneaking up on unsuspecting boaters or the pranks you could play on your friends who won’t hear you coming. Ah well, just a thought even if an unrealistic mischievous one.
Would a stiff panel of flexible poly attached horizontally and angled slightly downward just above the prop on the transom reduce the wasted energy caused by prop wash erupting from the surface, much like 'Dolfins' on an outboard? Seems to be a simple and cheap way to improve efficiency, but, since it hasn't been implemented I would guess there is some draw back I can't envision...
1 new thing at a time might short out the brain
For slow boats, a nozzle improves efficiency, look at the one "on sv seeker" it is the name of the youtube channel.
Some boat designs use ducted blades to increase performance. I don't know how it would work on slow moving boats and low rpm propellers.
@@grancito2 canal boats are essentially a container with a slightly sharpened bow - the flow to the prop is not great (laminar) and I do not believe there is much to be gained attempting to extract small percentages at the prop.
In answer to Wacholder. In the u tube blog " Sailing Uma", Dan and Kika converted their 49 year old diesel driven 36 foot sailboat to all electric drive. First with their own design DIY electric motor system, then later with a commercially available full electric motor drive system. After they had converted their sail boat to electric drive, they sailed across the Atlantic Ocean from Canada to England in their 36 foot long boat, so should be possible to convert a narrow boat to electric drive.
You seem to be forgetting that a narrow boat has a serious lack of sail power.
Can't see much use of electric motor usage sailing the Atlantic, sure coming into harbors or docking purposes, yes, but out at sea, why would you use the electric motor when the wind is blowing ???
@@itchyvet when it’s not blowing?
The point that I was trying to make was, if rechargeable batteries and an electric motor are reliable enough to cross the Atlantic, when using the sun for recharging the batteries for the electric motor at times when the boat is not under sail or the wind blowing in the wrong direction or not blowing at all. Then all electric canal cruising should be no problem. And yes they did use their electric motor from time to time when crossing the Atlantic Ocean, to assist when changing tack.
The future has to be electric for pleasure boats, the lack of noise increases the pleasure.
I was just thinking yesterday (whilst nipping in and out of my polytunnel) how glad you must be at deciding not to continue with your regular boating vlogs. This heat, and the solo handling of the lock gates would have been a killer. Carry on being careful David.
Even though I drive an EV, I’d prefer to have a multi fuel stove and at least a backup diesel generator. Wouldn’t mind running on batteries but I want to keep options open and maximum freedom.
David I noticed 'Old Nick' had a length of rope which presumably serves as a painter draped across several of the solar panels.
Nikki and Jason Wynn of Cruising Sail Channel 'Gone With the Wynn's' performed some experiments with solar panels which revealed that almost any shadow across one or more panels can essentially cause them to cease producing energy!
Cheers, I'm pretty sure they know that but the generation was so poor during the day they probably didn't worry about it (though being a trial, they perhaps should have!)
@@CruisingTheCut Thanks David, a local perspective is generally beneficial.
Brilliant! Its been a long time coming but what a fantastic step forward. Peaceful, no smell low cost.
You dont realize how many birds and crickets there are til you ride an electric boat! As soon as you get back to your boat, your gonna resent the noise.
Has anybody tried raising a small wind turbine while parked for night/cloudy recharging? if your anchored in a river, can the current turn the prop to charge the battery?
Wind turbines are unfortunately next to useless for a variety of reasons. As for river flow, generally it's minimal (especially at the side where the boat would be moored) so any generation would be neglible overall.
First of all, I want to express my gratitude for David and his videos. I have dearly missed them. Secondly, one question that was not presented or answered, what are the comparative costs of each system? I would assume the diesel generator was more expensive, but does the lack of diesel expense come close to making up for the difference over time? Thanks David for all your glorious videos and views of the English countryside. Lee
electric in this application does make sense, and the guy broke it down what the power demands of the boats would be and what a panels can give on a bad waether day. and he didnt try to buff anything and was realistic with the numbers. so i can say this would make sense.
If this gets on the BBC ever it will have unpleasant music so you cannot hear any one talking.
Thank you, David. As we move to electric propulsion for vehicles running on land, it's natural that watercraft also make the change. The canal system was built to take advantage of the efficiency of watercraft (large loads moved by one horse) so electric boats are a natural evolution. It's interesting the boats moved by oars were far noisier - not only splashing but grunting and shouting - than the electric narrowboats.
Wow, the electric is the way to go if you love the sounds of wildlife.
Yeah, absolutely. And I imagine the vibration in the cabin is much reduced.
Very interesting David, but beware ! ! ! I fear your wallet may leap from your pocket to the nearest electric boat builder- I'd keep it on a tight leash if I were you...
I am going to as the obvious question. why not have Solar Panels on all side of the boats as well. it is well proven that solar panels will gather energy even in an indirect mode. any sailer knows how much sunburn occurs because of reflected light off the surface of water.
If every watt of energy is required then having panels on the massive side of the narrow boat would add power throughout the day. while not as much as the upward facing cells.
I have been involved in these experiments and the results were improved as opposed to not having the additional cells. The new cells coming to market will even generate energy during the night time using a different form of light energy.
Panels on the sides would get scratched or even pulled off by tree branches in narrow sections, whichever side wasn't facing the sun would produce negligible output and even the other side would be dim unless you happened to moor in a clear spot (a lot of the canals are tree-lined)
The generator as a supplement made all the sense for a back up. Now get the rest of the world convinced to trim their sails.
Add a shore cable to charge the batteries while moored if power is available.
im not a fan of electric motors in general but this... the whole cruising on the canal in complete silence apart from what's around in nature would legit be one of the best things ever
I’m the biggest fan of electric motors, silently and efficient;y powering the modern world around us!
Beautiful !!! Narrow boats seem the perfect match for solar power. Speed is not needed and from what I've seen, undesirable in light of the leisurely pace of the life style. Noise is a distraction from the beauty of the trip. I've never understood why the narrow boats do not use "water-cooled" exhaust systems, which produces a pleasant burbling sound at the rear of the boat, as is common on quality boats in the USA. Instead most narrow boats sound like junky old farm tractors putting away as they go along. With solar coming into usage, advocating water-cooled exhausts seems a moot point now. Peace and quiet at last. Now narrow boating can truly be a pastoral experience like it should be.
As someone who is designing two electric narrowboats this video is GOLDEN. My own independant assesment seems bang on with the serial hybrids both in generator and battery sizes. Having a small battery bank shows its shortcomings in Perseverance and the need to have huge capacity where you can only us 50% of the storarge in lead acid tech. Ours will have 48v 400Ah Lifepo4 in one boat with basic systems and 800 in one with a high volume of AC services. It is also comforting in seeing a 10kW motor is enough for most scenarios.
One suprise was the small amout of solar on (relatively) low power flexible panels. On a river with less than 2kW installed solar, floating the driving load, even on the sunniest of days, on a river,seems extremely optimistic. On the day you could see the drain on your control panel shot.
Again, David has shown his vidoeo journolistic chops. Well thought out and well produced.
I don't know if you were aware of this but here's a tip I found from german gearheads into electric bikes; Lithium batteries can actually be REUSED.
and based on that you can assemble your own perfectly good second life battery at fraction of the cost of a new one. we're talking 50-100€ instead of 800-1000€ for new one (prices for electric bike battery pack).
What you do is basically source throwaway battery packs (from recycling yards and such, in most cases they just dispose of lithium batteries as recycling isnt economically feasable), you get them cheap like 0.25€ per battery (not pack). then you open them up to expose individual lithium batteries, you test them with a voltmeter. some 50% are gonna be goosed, but the other 50% are gonna be good. then you basically spot-weld or splice them together into a new pack. you build a charge controller - and that's it!
Anyways hope that helps!
"On a river with less than 2kW installed solar, floating the driving load [...] seems extremely optimistic" Didn't quite get what you mean here: Are you saying a larger pack lets you store up charge from the grid rather than relying entirely on solar during the day? Or is this some electrical terminology I'm not familiar with?
Also, what made you go for Lithium Iron over Ion? Cost, or safety concerns?
Yippeeee! Electric for me....for sure. Thanks
I suspect that the cost in money, space, and weight, of the diesel systems and charger units on the serial hybrids could be replaced by bigger batteries and they'd come out ahead. It looks like even the boat with the most solar on the roof had enough room for a couple more flexible panels. Even if it's not eternally self sustaining, it's my understanding you guys pop into a marina from time to time and they could charge to full overnight on those occasions.
Anyway, a couple years ago I was pretty certain all electric narrow boating was on the horizon. It's good to see some people are doing professional installations now.
I am assured by the boaters that they put on as much solar as was practical / wanted. Bear in mind many narrowboaters use the roof for storage. Marina charging would be expensive as you’d have to pay the overnight mooring fee (typically £10-£20 a night) plus electricity fees.
@@CruisingTheCut That's interesting, that electricity wouldn't be included in such high charges? CRT charge £6 per night at Llangollen, and water/electricity is included. Marinas are the logical pre-existing network for charging, perhaps they could add canal-side linear mooring with charging points, for passing boaters.
@@CruisingTheCut What's wrong with having your own charger on board to plug in to the local supply ??
I'm not sure what you mean by a "local supply" when you're in a marina; the supply is the bollards at the end of each mooring pontoon and those are owned by the marina. So if you want to plug in, you pay their rate. It would charge through your own onboard charger but the supply is via the marina.
One thing that has always put me off a canal boat is the noise, smell and mess associated with a diesel. On a sailboat you can cut the engine for the majority of the trip
Nissan Leaf e-cars are now ten years old so many have become scrap, their battery pack
of 48x 8V DC Li-ion batteries (384v total when all wired in series so be careful handling them)
are becoming a source of cheap li-ion packs to build battery banks for everything from
custom e cars, to home power walls to run 240v inverters, charged from wind turbines
and solar cells, etc. lots of YT videos on re-using Nissan Leaf batteries and motors.
Another use would be powering narrow boats.
LiFePo4 Batteries are better. Mostly even cheaper then used car batteries. Can not burn, Are very stable and robust to use. A bit heavier and larger the Li-Ion but who cares in a boat?
@@wolfgangpreier9160 Sounds good if you can get them cheaper than scrap leaf batteries. dont forget theres a good chance of a good leaf motor and control system included in a leaf wreck