I think this will become a popular trend in the next 10years. Tech has kind of plateaued to a point where we don’t really need any more power or accuracy for 99% of usecases. This has caused the main players in tech to look elsewhere for improvements. Which is why we see companies like Apple planning to essentially pivot their entire company to VR. It will take some time to get there but Apple Vision is being positioned to replace Cellphones, Laptops, Tablets and Watches. Which means that there will be a moment during this transition period where smaller companies will be able you take over the niche of supplying customers with oldschool devices. It is my belief that being repairable and more open source will allow these niche companies to take over whatever marketshare is left as Apple exits these market. We see a similar thing happening to computer peripherals. The sensors/buttons are all perfected now. It first started with keyboards and being able to change switches/keycaps, and now we’ve started to see some companies in the mouse market selling hotswappable switches. Customers are really starting to get annoyed with their switches/scrollwheels dying, so I expect to see reliability and repairability to become a major focus, as well as click/scroll feel. I suppose there is still a lot of time until the industry transitions but its kind of sad to know that for these companies their days in business are numbered, they will be replaced by VR eventually. Just look at what happened to audio and photo. Ipods, walkmans, boomboxes, record players, polaroids, 80mm film cameras etc. all basically don’t exist anymore in modern life. There is a trend for people to bring back this old tech, so its not completely dead, but when you compare it to the time when everyone had and used these products every day, its a stark contrast.
@@Level1TechsI wouldn’t mind proof-reading/listening to unreleased content. I get it that stuff sometimes gets mixed up on its way between the mind and the windpipe, people who know their stuff notice it (Rocket Lake, Meteor Lake, Raptor Lake?) but people who don’t might get confused. The only content I’d have to tap out is Linux content.
I hand laptops out to teachers, We have massive problems with laptops that have exited warranty with ports that wear out and cause problems (screen disconnect, charging issues etc... In normal laptops its a motherboard replacement and generally the cost and age we pitch the machine. With the framework I just swap in a new $9.00 modules. I have picked up 3 and sent them out to see how they hold up. For once I look forward to them getting broken.
I'd point out that a lot of people that have work-supplied laptops (especially teachers) quite often don't care about getting a new laptop. The common complaints are ' I like it, but the battery doesn't last' or ' its fine but the trackpad/keyboard doesn't work properly' etc. They really just want one or two parts replaced - they don't really need nor want a new machine.
Agreed, I have gotten push back because "We order dell" etc... But i have been holding firm on this fits the boards green initative, and allows us to better serve the users. @@smalltime0
In companies, you usually lease laptops for 3-5 years then replace. And pay for onsite support. Any issues, Dell or Lenovo can come and fix it. Deploying Framework laptops to several 100s sounds like a nightmare.
@@smalltime0In companies, you usually lease laptops for 3-5 years then replace. And pay for onsite support. Any issues, Dell or Lenovo can come and fix it. Deploying Framework laptops to several 100s sounds like a nightmare.
I'm so happy you pointed out the power requirements on the SSD. I feel like most people don't bother, and there isn't really a lot of easy to find info on power efficiency, especially with stuff like SSDs, where most people go "what do you want, it's better than a hard drive, isn't that enough for you?"
I literally gave up looking up anything beyond size (physical), size (storage), PCIe gen, rated speed and 1 star reviews on SSDs simply because it's a full day of work to find the correct specs of any disk. Often the cache size and type doesn't exist even on the official website of the product, let alone projected lifespan in TBW or power requirements. There really should be some site that gathers all the actual spec of all the tech stuff INCLUDING laptops (another imperscrutable field) so it's easy to see know what you actually get
"SN850X or 990 Pro gotta go faaaaast!" ... "Why is my idle-ish battery life half of what it used to be...?" See it far too often, 0.5W vs 1.2W idling SSD is a big difference in laptop terms!
@@nikolaj5054True, but because they're the only major outlet to do so and they don't review every SSD, it still leaves substantial gaps (speaking as someone having recently bought an SSD specifically for low power consumption on a Framework lol) Edit: almost forgot to mention, Tom's only does idle and full speed power without discussing power modes, supposedly SSDs have 4 power modes and run using different modes depending on OS, driver configuration and SSD firmware preference. 2 different SSDs with the same power consumption in Mode 2 can still have vastly different power consumption in the real world because one might prefer to stay in Mode 3 for power reasons and the other might keep switching to Mode 1 for higher performance.
12:30 Legit one of my favorite pieces of utility software. Threw it on a 64gb USB A+C flash drive I keep on my keychain and haven't had an issue in 3 years
I had no idea Framework went with AMD nor their Linux-support. I'm really interested in them now. I'm so glad this company exists. Tired of all the bullshit.
No expert here but it seems that Framework have achieved a tier 1 AMD laptop in their first attempt vs Lenovo, who arguably still haven't cracked that... Oh Framework, please do a keyboard with a TrackPoint, there are a lot of us out there...
@@Dracossaint IBM's pointing stick TrackPoint was first introduced in 1992 and the current version (IV) came out in 1997. US patents last for at most 20 years so they've definitely expired. There are other brands of pointing stick as well. The ALPS sticks in my older Dell Latitudes (2003-2010 MYs) seem a bit off but my newer 2016 one feels great. AFAIK some of the patents on pointer acceleration ran out in that time.
@@gwenmorse8059 Thanks for letting me know. I'll try to find more about that. I know from reading the Framework forum that *many* have asked and they said they wont be doing such a keyboard...
If I'm ever in the market for a laptop again, I will grab one of these. I've been following Framework for quite some time, but just haven't been in the position of needing a new laptop at this point.
3:40 Sums it up perfectly. Replacing components yourself should be cheap and quick. We're almost a quarter through the 21st century! My next laptop is definitely going to be a Framework.
I'm glad they seem to fix some of the problems with the pre-production units they seated to other reviewers. That keyboard flex would have been really annoying for somebody coming from the framework 13 which doesn't have that issue
This is looking more and more like the laptop I will purchase to replace my work laptop when I retire. I look forward to hearing some updates after the machine is put through real-world use.
my dell laptop from 2019 I set to an 80% limit and i've only now noticed the battery degradation kicking in, so I will absolutely be setting that option on every future laptop I have
Got a fujitsu laptop u7313 on debian that has a working fingerprint reader that works after sleeping for like a week, its mostly modular, infact it uses a similar battery system that you can screw out and pop back in with the pins, been an absolute trooper for linux, dont think i ever had a laptop that is this good for linux, and its sold as a windows machine anyway wasnt expecting it to even work tbh.
I would love to see a module with a larger touchpad to compliment the larger palmrest/screen. I know the engineers said that there was a compat limitation but maybe we could have one with reduced compat? I really like my big touchpads.
"I'll be able to sit in corporate meetings and disassemble my laptop in meetings" Dude. I take the module out and fiddle with them all the god damn time in meetings. I also have a tendency to show people the inside of my laptop because its SO DAMN EASY TO REPAIR
I picked up an HP envy x360, with a i5 8250U in it, for about 90 bucks on eBay. It had a few things wrong with it but one of the things I found interesting when I opened it up, is how modular it was. It's like these companies are capable of doing it, but they just refuse to nowadays.
It begs to wait if Framework will be able to tackle the number one issue these companies usually have, which is supply and logistics to deliver replacement parts and parts for support. And I see they're still using the impractical and not-at-all portable block modules which are the size of a matchbox and only give you two ports at most.
06:06 My current laptop is from 2015 and the battery just now needs to be replaced. Until a year ago I kept max charge at 80% and tried not to let it get below 40% too often. About a year ago I got to "this thing is about as close to computationally useless as I can use" and the battery is just now getting to where I might want to replace it. I really hope Framework is around for the long haul. Even though I generally keep a system until it is at the point of "lets replace the whole thing", I could easily repurpose a Framework mainboard to an old monitor and remote into a more powerful system. I really really hope they release a professional graphics card. A Quadro would be nice.
I have a thought. It appears the GPU port has some power to the laptop pins... We could maybe try to get a battery inside the blank fan cover module, or even a 12 volt input that can take power from 12VDC sources to increase battery.
Only thing I dislike is the keyboard. Ideally, I'd be able to get a keyboard that feels just like my old IBM Thinkpads. I really hope someone makes one.
I really love the idea of Framework laptops. I am currently in the market for a 16 or 17 inch laptop but prefer Intel so I am holding out. If you only offer 2 sizes I think their 13 and 16 inch sizes make perfect sense, and hopefully they will offer both sizes with solutions from both processor brands soon.
everything about it seems great. I bought a sys76 adder w3 13900H and 4060. its.... ok.... I mulled around the idea of the framework 16. I should have went with it. That said. I do worry about rigidity over time. many moving/replaceable parts makes me leary of the actual ability for it to be robust and rigid enough for portability over say a year or 2
I daily drive a hacked about 2011 Macbook pro with a fried dGPU, so it's fair to say I don't need very much from a laptop. When this thing dies I'll be buying something from Framework.
I gotta admit I was unbelievably excited about this laptop, I already own a framework 13 but after spending far too much time comparing options and checking price, it's so so hard to justify the framework 16 in anyway for me. It will never save you money, the upgrades cost more than an entire laptop in most cases. I've worked as MSP fixing laptops for years and sure Dell/HP or anything else you gotta work with in the corporate world is less friendly to repair you gotta get a certification and crap, but it's not so bad that companies or people are typically willing to pay an order of magnitude more just for a QR code. I want them to succeed so so much but the costs, fit and finish, etc need to get better. I'm also worried about the longevity about a swappable GPU, this directly competes with the entire market pushing External GPUs forward in my opinion. Will framework continue to support this when most people are going to be satisfied with an external GPU? Anyway loved the video! I really pray I am wrong and that framework crushes it!
I was in batch 1 for the AMD Framework 13. (I'm special.) It has been a great laptop. I love the 3:2 matte display screen. The port restrictions are due to AMD. The Intel-based Framework 13 does not appear to have port restrictions. Not a big deal. I would love to swap in a RISC-V motherboard. Maybe in a few years???
The base price, which at 1399USD is quite a bit higher than other laptops with the 7840HS, does not include RAM, Storage, any I/O ports or even the charger!!!! I get that this is more expensive but it ends up costing double of what a "traditional" laptop would cost.
@@KL-ky8fy Unfortunately, that's probably the best price it can be offered at and still produce a profit for the company... They had to design everything from scratch, have small build quantities, and are still a very young company.
If you need to keep paying to upgrade it and the upgrades themselves still come at a premium then no, it doesn't "pay for itself". I do get paying extra for a device that is more "ethical" but this is stretching how much more that's really worth. @@benjaminoechsli1941
around 22:18 you mention the built-in Microphone picking up the sounds of the laptop... well LUCKILY AMD has noise suppression built-in to their Adrenaline Software that works REALLY WELL and won't really take up any extra resources since it's already running in the background anyway ... Mind you I'm referring to the Windows drivers... I have yet to check out their Adrenaline Software in Linux, but I'm fairly sure they have the noise suppression there too :)
i would highly recommend setting battery charge limit to 80%. I set that on my dell latitude 7490 and over the last 4 years my battery wear level is only 7%
Now we just need a Framework phone. I’d buy that instantaneously if they made one. A US FairPhone would be nice, but at this rate Framework’s going to get around to phones before Fairphone gets to the US market.
I would be curious as to how it runs with Linux mint since it is an Ubuntu variant. I will be getting one but going to have to wait a while till they call my batch.
I highly appreciate W here for speaking in conversational normal human tone. none of that fake high pitch or fake overtly filtered deep voices.. and yes, normal pace too.. WTH
@@progenitor_amborellaThat might just be referring to the fact that 8 PCIe lanes is more or less the same thing as 2 M.2 M key slots as long as bifurcation is supported
I personally thought the watershed moment for AMD was with mobile Zen3 (5000 mobile series), and what really held them back was no way to implement PCI-E tunneling via thunderbolt. With the 7000/8000 mobile series and USB4 implementation though..!
The crazy thing is that they assemble, test, and disassemble them to ship the DIY models. In the future, they will stop this process as their manufacturing improves.
Batteries are removable and replaceable in just about any laptop... I get that the Framework is a special case and it's definitely something special as far as modularity and everything else but I keep seeing reviewers praising its battery as if that is something out of the ordinary, it's very much the same as nearly every other laptop...
It does seem a little bit easier than other modern laptops, but who's changing internal batteries enough for it to matter? I should note that at least one major brand (named after fruit) glues in their laptop batteries. It's far from easy to change a MacBook battery. AFAIK Surface devices are also a pain but they're more tablet-style devices.
There could be fixed USB-C just because it could be more compact and everyone needs 2-3 USB ports, a charger, a dock, a stick, USB display. Touchpad could be a bit wider, couldn't it? Also, I could use a fingerprint reader, hopefully that can be added in future models. Or a module with 2 USB ports? Oh wait, fingerprint reader is present in the power button, oh that's cool
hear me out, how bloody cool would it be if someone created a module for the rear slot that would be a x16 pcie slot with external power, either that or a passthrough to something like a dock port with an x16 slot iirc, the 7700S connects over x8 but that would still be better than usb4 The options this thing gives are incredible thinking of it actually, if I ever buy a FW16 I will definitely build that kind of a dock myself for shits and giggles
@@andrewr7820 pcie lanes don't really take up much power, still an X8 is much better than thunderbolt. it's got an X8 because of internal CPU lanes and the connector size
Sheer DAYS after my warranty ran out, my motherboard died. The dilemma now is, do I risk getting a replacement mainboard when their customer service was so trash to me?
As a Mint desktop AMD gamer, i would love to hear more about power management. Feels bad to use OC from bios when my current uptime is 11days 20hours. Lot of wasted energy with my 3700X just existing. :/
The hinge on that system 76 - In general that's been the bane of EVERY workstation/performance laptop I've ever owned. Hinge breaks - mb gets levered - computer becomes flakey - no workie anymore. Big laptop, small laptop, dell laptop, whatever... only machines I haven't had the problem with is Lenovo and Apple. And I just can't with apple anymore and I think the only reason the lenovo doesn't break on me is that I use it mostly stationary - it isn't my travel device, its not a gaming machine, I don't stress it for any applications because its performance is meh. *THAT* is why I ordered a Framework 16. I can *FIX* it and the specs are great for my use case. Edit: I'm kind of hoping that oculink can be an add-on to the rear module. That's the best place for it - you have that PCI bus interconnect *right there* - you could have an oculink and 1-2 nvme 2280 drives... Or maybe even two oculink ports. I've got to wonder if they hardened the bus link for 240w? Something to think about. Edit2: I'm not interested in led bling... but if those RP modules could actually get interconnect and GPIO at some point... that could be very useful. Could also be interesting to run a pi-hole on one as a network filter... just a thought.
I stopped using my AMD FW13 and went with a Zenbook due to the USB-PD negotiation failures, random shutdowns in modern standby because something is crashing, and other minor issues.
Uhh. A theoretically upgradeable GPU. Like I want to see this succeed. But right now you have integrated graphics and the 7700S as an upgrade. Until we see more upgrade options it's just a laptop with an optional discrete GPU for now. I really hope that this takes off.
Wendell, please all those tabs open in the background on the screen hurts my soul. Please set something easier on the heart and soul next time. It reminds me of my 60yo mothers computer who calls me over because her pc is slow but its always just too many tabs open.
I priced one of these out with the dGPU and the DIY version with 16GB of ram, a 1TB ssd, and all the ports I'd need and it came out to something like 2300USD. Which is hard sell when Lenovo will sell you a better performing Legion 5 Pro with an RTX4070 for a THOUSAND dollars less. Is the Lenovo as easily repairable? Probably not, but if the thing breaks in 4 or 5 years, I've already got a thousand dollars to buy an all new machine with new components, including a mint chassis (with brand new display hinges). Want to upgrade this in 4 years? Probably need 500-800USD for a mainboard, 400-500 for new GPU that will probably be constrained to a particular form factor (and a low tdp config), and that's assuming the chassis is still in reasonable condition, the company still exists, and they haven't adopted a version 2.0 that only accepts the latest hardware. In a few years you've spent twice as much on a laptop than if you had just bought two (higher performing) laptops.
I'm going to assume that since you're on a Level1Techs video, you _aren't_ trolling, and so I'll answer seriously. 1) It's called a Framework 16 because it has a 16" screen. The first model was the Framework 13, because it has a 13" screen. 2) There's more components to a computer than the motherboard. There's the CPU, of course, but also RAM, storage, and optionally a graphics card, all of which can be upgraded in this fine device.
I'm a little concerned that everything is connected with pogo pins, I don't think I've ever had a device with pogo pins last more then two years usually the pogo pins go bad pretty easily
I'm waiting for the tranche that ships later this year. Wish I had it sooner. My Dell G5 has had terrible thermals and roasts you legs if you use it on your lap.
Hopefully AMD and framework get the update out to fix the drive that your OS is not installed on disappearing from windows on wake from sleep pretty soon, it is a bit of an inconvenience.
In an age of extreme consumerism and waste, I would like to see this catch on. It’s unfortunate that attempts to do this before have been thwarted. Go Framework, go!
Disassembling and reassembling your laptop in a meeting is the grown-up version of disassembling and reassembling your pen in class.
I was quite often reversing the polarizer of classmates calculaters during class
@@yomanyo327Based
All my smart friends would do that in class. Such a great analogy
I've straight up repaired my Framework laptop in the front row of a collage math class.
@@moarjank that makes me happy
>"I learned a lot"
>"Anyway, it's broken"
dude could not be more relatable
I'm so rooting for this company, we need more of their mindset and MO.
I think this will become a popular trend in the next 10years. Tech has kind of plateaued to a point where we don’t really need any more power or accuracy for 99% of usecases.
This has caused the main players in tech to look elsewhere for improvements. Which is why we see companies like Apple planning to essentially pivot their entire company to VR. It will take some time to get there but Apple Vision is being positioned to replace Cellphones, Laptops, Tablets and Watches.
Which means that there will be a moment during this transition period where smaller companies will be able you take over the niche of supplying customers with oldschool devices. It is my belief that being repairable and more open source will allow these niche companies to take over whatever marketshare is left as Apple exits these market.
We see a similar thing happening to computer peripherals. The sensors/buttons are all perfected now. It first started with keyboards and being able to change switches/keycaps, and now we’ve started to see some companies in the mouse market selling hotswappable switches. Customers are really starting to get annoyed with their switches/scrollwheels dying, so I expect to see reliability and repairability to become a major focus, as well as click/scroll feel.
I suppose there is still a lot of time until the industry transitions but its kind of sad to know that for these companies their days in business are numbered, they will be replaced by VR eventually.
Just look at what happened to audio and photo. Ipods, walkmans, boomboxes, record players, polaroids, 80mm film cameras etc. all basically don’t exist anymore in modern life. There is a trend for people to bring back this old tech, so its not completely dead, but when you compare it to the time when everyone had and used these products every day, its a stark contrast.
The Chaos Engine! Hi friend!
I've got one on preorder already...
Buy
27:10 85kWh is an amazing battery :D That's like 15 Powerwalls in one laptop! Amazing engineering!!
Oupppppssss
I'll be buying a handful of these and backup power for my neighborhood.
@@Level1TechsI wouldn’t mind proof-reading/listening to unreleased content. I get it that stuff sometimes gets mixed up on its way between the mind and the windpipe, people who know their stuff notice it (Rocket Lake, Meteor Lake, Raptor Lake?) but people who don’t might get confused. The only content I’d have to tap out is Linux content.
Holy $hit. I have a 65kWh battery that can run my house for 4 days which cost me an arm and a leg! I need to get me one of these laptops 😂
@@abavariannormiepleb9470 I'll volunteer as tribute for the Linux content ✋😁
I hand laptops out to teachers, We have massive problems with laptops that have exited warranty with ports that wear out and cause problems (screen disconnect, charging issues etc... In normal laptops its a motherboard replacement and generally the cost and age we pitch the machine. With the framework I just swap in a new $9.00 modules. I have picked up 3 and sent them out to see how they hold up. For once I look forward to them getting broken.
I'd point out that a lot of people that have work-supplied laptops (especially teachers) quite often don't care about getting a new laptop. The common complaints are ' I like it, but the battery doesn't last' or ' its fine but the trackpad/keyboard doesn't work properly' etc. They really just want one or two parts replaced - they don't really need nor want a new machine.
Agreed, I have gotten push back because "We order dell" etc... But i have been holding firm on this fits the boards green initative, and allows us to better serve the users. @@smalltime0
@@smalltime0 Exactly! And replacing the one faulty bit is not only cheaper than a new computer, it's better for the environment. Wins all around!
In companies, you usually lease laptops for 3-5 years then replace. And pay for onsite support. Any issues, Dell or Lenovo can come and fix it. Deploying Framework laptops to several 100s sounds like a nightmare.
@@smalltime0In companies, you usually lease laptops for 3-5 years then replace. And pay for onsite support. Any issues, Dell or Lenovo can come and fix it. Deploying Framework laptops to several 100s sounds like a nightmare.
I'm so happy you pointed out the power requirements on the SSD. I feel like most people don't bother, and there isn't really a lot of easy to find info on power efficiency, especially with stuff like SSDs, where most people go "what do you want, it's better than a hard drive, isn't that enough for you?"
I literally gave up looking up anything beyond size (physical), size (storage), PCIe gen, rated speed and 1 star reviews on SSDs simply because it's a full day of work to find the correct specs of any disk. Often the cache size and type doesn't exist even on the official website of the product, let alone projected lifespan in TBW or power requirements. There really should be some site that gathers all the actual spec of all the tech stuff INCLUDING laptops (another imperscrutable field) so it's easy to see know what you actually get
TomsHardware may not be the best, but they usually have idle and stress power consumption in their SSD reviews
"SN850X or 990 Pro gotta go faaaaast!" ... "Why is my idle-ish battery life half of what it used to be...?" See it far too often, 0.5W vs 1.2W idling SSD is a big difference in laptop terms!
@@nikolaj5054True, but because they're the only major outlet to do so and they don't review every SSD, it still leaves substantial gaps (speaking as someone having recently bought an SSD specifically for low power consumption on a Framework lol)
Edit: almost forgot to mention, Tom's only does idle and full speed power without discussing power modes, supposedly SSDs have 4 power modes and run using different modes depending on OS, driver configuration and SSD firmware preference. 2 different SSDs with the same power consumption in Mode 2 can still have vastly different power consumption in the real world because one might prefer to stay in Mode 3 for power reasons and the other might keep switching to Mode 1 for higher performance.
the usual hack is to set Windows to turn off the drives after 1 minute of inactivity to get around the power consumption requirements of a SSD
I really hope this company success, this is how laptops ahould be made, easily repairable and upgradeable.
Today I Learned: Wendle is hard on his toys. Also, I need to save up for a Framework laptop. Mostly just that Wendle is hard on his toys.
Hard on toys 😏
27:11 I wish the battery was 85kWh, but sadly it's just 85Wh.
Maybe in 15 years we'll see laptops with 425Wh batteries 🤞
12:30 Legit one of my favorite pieces of utility software. Threw it on a 64gb USB A+C flash drive I keep on my keychain and haven't had an issue in 3 years
Yep, Ventoy is the bomb.
I had no idea Framework went with AMD nor their Linux-support. I'm really interested in them now. I'm so glad this company exists. Tired of all the bullshit.
No expert here but it seems that Framework have achieved a tier 1 AMD laptop in their first attempt vs Lenovo, who arguably still haven't cracked that... Oh Framework, please do a keyboard with a TrackPoint, there are a lot of us out there...
Doesn't Lenovo have a patent on that?
@@Dracossaint Dell and HP also sell laptops with trackpoints. I've never tried them though so maybe they work in a different way.
@@Dracossaint IBM's pointing stick TrackPoint was first introduced in 1992 and the current version (IV) came out in 1997. US patents last for at most 20 years so they've definitely expired. There are other brands of pointing stick as well. The ALPS sticks in my older Dell Latitudes (2003-2010 MYs) seem a bit off but my newer 2016 one feels great. AFAIK some of the patents on pointer acceleration ran out in that time.
There's a Framework community project to integrate a track point and also a 3 button touchpad.
@@gwenmorse8059 Thanks for letting me know. I'll try to find more about that. I know from reading the Framework forum that *many* have asked and they said they wont be doing such a keyboard...
If I'm ever in the market for a laptop again, I will grab one of these. I've been following Framework for quite some time, but just haven't been in the position of needing a new laptop at this point.
3:40 Sums it up perfectly. Replacing components yourself should be cheap and quick. We're almost a quarter through the 21st century! My next laptop is definitely going to be a Framework.
This video is the perfect drug. The man, the hardware, the software. Love it!
I'm glad they seem to fix some of the problems with the pre-production units they seated to other reviewers. That keyboard flex would have been really annoying for somebody coming from the framework 13 which doesn't have that issue
we click the like before watching the video over here
This is looking more and more like the laptop I will purchase to replace my work laptop when I retire. I look forward to hearing some updates after the machine is put through real-world use.
The HDMI module (for the side) can be plugged in the gpu (in the back) and it works flawlessly.
my dell laptop from 2019 I set to an 80% limit and i've only now noticed the battery degradation kicking in, so I will absolutely be setting that option on every future laptop I have
Your laptop would have been down to 80% capacity now, had you charged it to 100% every day for 5 years
@@brianhansen2202nope, i have a friend who has a similar usage pattern to me and his is down to 68%
Got a fujitsu laptop u7313 on debian that has a working fingerprint reader that works after sleeping for like a week, its mostly modular, infact it uses a similar battery system that you can screw out and pop back in with the pins, been an absolute trooper for linux, dont think i ever had a laptop that is this good for linux, and its sold as a windows machine anyway wasnt expecting it to even work tbh.
What is that tablet device at 14:02? I'd love to have a high quality LTE Linux Tablet.
Love the intro, never change Wendell never change
I'd like to see an IBM style (T420 era) keyboard as an option. Thanks for the review, i had my eyes on this for a while.
That opening is hilarious.
I would love to see a module with a larger touchpad to compliment the larger palmrest/screen. I know the engineers said that there was a compat limitation but maybe we could have one with reduced compat? I really like my big touchpads.
Man you making me even more hyped for my batch 10 pre-order
It’s an exciting day when Wendell is excited.
"it's modular... MODULAR!!"
Thanks for reviewing this! I've never been so impatient to buy a new laptop and I've used some dinosaurs before.
I remember making a negative comment about System76 laptop hinges and they (and a lot of people) told me I was full of BS.
Yeah. About that.
Laptop hinges (in general) are horrible. See my rant further down on that subject. Thinkpads were the only machine with great hinges.
"I'll be able to sit in corporate meetings and disassemble my laptop in meetings" Dude. I take the module out and fiddle with them all the god damn time in meetings. I also have a tendency to show people the inside of my laptop because its SO DAMN EASY TO REPAIR
Hilariously not mentioning that battery replacement used to be normal.
That's my new email signature. I can't sit in meetings and take my laptop apart 😅😅😅
I picked up an HP envy x360, with a i5 8250U in it, for about 90 bucks on eBay. It had a few things wrong with it but one of the things I found interesting when I opened it up, is how modular it was. It's like these companies are capable of doing it, but they just refuse to nowadays.
Alright, this is actually impressive and neat. They've come a long ways!
It begs to wait if Framework will be able to tackle the number one issue these companies usually have, which is supply and logistics to deliver replacement parts and parts for support. And I see they're still using the impractical and not-at-all portable block modules which are the size of a matchbox and only give you two ports at most.
06:06 My current laptop is from 2015 and the battery just now needs to be replaced. Until a year ago I kept max charge at 80% and tried not to let it get below 40% too often. About a year ago I got to "this thing is about as close to computationally useless as I can use" and the battery is just now getting to where I might want to replace it.
I really hope Framework is around for the long haul. Even though I generally keep a system until it is at the point of "lets replace the whole thing", I could easily repurpose a Framework mainboard to an old monitor and remote into a more powerful system.
I really really hope they release a professional graphics card. A Quadro would be nice.
I have a thought. It appears the GPU port has some power to the laptop pins... We could maybe try to get a battery inside the blank fan cover module, or even a 12 volt input that can take power from 12VDC sources to increase battery.
Only thing I dislike is the keyboard. Ideally, I'd be able to get a keyboard that feels just like my old IBM Thinkpads. I really hope someone makes one.
There probably isn't enough vertical space for that.
I really love the idea of Framework laptops. I am currently in the market for a 16 or 17 inch laptop but prefer Intel so I am holding out. If you only offer 2 sizes I think their 13 and 16 inch sizes make perfect sense, and hopefully they will offer both sizes with solutions from both processor brands soon.
everything about it seems great. I bought a sys76 adder w3 13900H and 4060. its.... ok.... I mulled around the idea of the framework 16. I should have went with it. That said. I do worry about rigidity over time. many moving/replaceable parts makes me leary of the actual ability for it to be robust and rigid enough for portability over say a year or 2
Thanks! I’m in Batch8 awaiting my FW16!
I LOVE the concept of modular devices.
The right speaker doesn't have a sticker because the two speakers are tied together by their cable (and are considered one part)
Great review!! Wonderfully in-depth breakdown and that's the final push for me to buy this thing.
I got the shipping notification yesterday. (Rubbing hands together gleefully.)
I daily drive a hacked about 2011 Macbook pro with a fried dGPU, so it's fair to say I don't need very much from a laptop. When this thing dies I'll be buying something from Framework.
I gotta admit I was unbelievably excited about this laptop, I already own a framework 13 but after spending far too much time comparing options and checking price, it's so so hard to justify the framework 16 in anyway for me. It will never save you money, the upgrades cost more than an entire laptop in most cases. I've worked as MSP fixing laptops for years and sure Dell/HP or anything else you gotta work with in the corporate world is less friendly to repair you gotta get a certification and crap, but it's not so bad that companies or people are typically willing to pay an order of magnitude more just for a QR code. I want them to succeed so so much but the costs, fit and finish, etc need to get better. I'm also worried about the longevity about a swappable GPU, this directly competes with the entire market pushing External GPUs forward in my opinion. Will framework continue to support this when most people are going to be satisfied with an external GPU?
Anyway loved the video! I really pray I am wrong and that framework crushes it!
I was in batch 1 for the AMD Framework 13. (I'm special.) It has been a great laptop. I love the 3:2 matte display screen. The port restrictions are due to AMD. The Intel-based Framework 13 does not appear to have port restrictions. Not a big deal. I would love to swap in a RISC-V motherboard. Maybe in a few years???
I've got great news about that Risc V thing 😂 what next Qualcomm? Honestly Framework awesome
so good. please keep up the coverage from this brand.
I am excited to see where this goes in the next 5 years.
13:30 do you plan to release video about installing usb4 and pcie tunneling?
From the start of this video, I assumed that this is a fidget toy for someone stuck in a boring meeting that should have been an email, and I approve!
The base price, which at 1399USD is quite a bit higher than other laptops with the 7840HS, does not include RAM, Storage, any I/O ports or even the charger!!!! I get that this is more expensive but it ends up costing double of what a "traditional" laptop would cost.
Yeah the price is pretty high, hopefully they can bring it down close to normal in a few years
@@KL-ky8fy Unfortunately, that's probably the best price it can be offered at and still produce a profit for the company... They had to design everything from scratch, have small build quantities, and are still a very young company.
If the laptop lasts you twice as long due to its upgradability, it pays for itself.
If you need to keep paying to upgrade it and the upgrades themselves still come at a premium then no, it doesn't "pay for itself". I do get paying extra for a device that is more "ethical" but this is stretching how much more that's really worth. @@benjaminoechsli1941
But you save money later on with being able to upgrade. I think they even make a part so you can use your old mobo as a home server if you want
what i would like is the possibility to use some e-ink modules instead of those LED panels. It would for a much more flexible status display, I think.
There was an early demo of a numpad-sized eink pad but it apparently didn't look good.
Maybe an option for a modding project?
around 22:18 you mention the built-in Microphone picking up the sounds of the laptop... well LUCKILY AMD has noise suppression built-in to their Adrenaline Software that works REALLY WELL and won't really take up any extra resources since it's already running in the background anyway ... Mind you I'm referring to the Windows drivers... I have yet to check out their Adrenaline Software in Linux, but I'm fairly sure they have the noise suppression there too :)
As far as I know, Adrenaline Software isn't on linux. There's Noise Torch tho. :P
yeah no adrenaline for linux afaik. but its still so much better than the nvidia situation
i would highly recommend setting battery charge limit to 80%. I set that on my dell latitude 7490 and over the last 4 years my battery wear level is only 7%
That sounds like a meeting that should've been an email.
Thanks for the pop os guide love the distro
Now we just need a Framework phone. I’d buy that instantaneously if they made one. A US FairPhone would be nice, but at this rate Framework’s going to get around to phones before Fairphone gets to the US market.
I would be curious as to how it runs with Linux mint since it is an Ubuntu variant. I will be getting one but going to have to wait a while till they call my batch.
I highly appreciate W here for speaking in conversational normal human tone. none of that fake high pitch or fake overtly filtered deep voices..
and yes, normal pace too.. WTH
I love how this showed up in my feed even though I unsubscribed after your review of the System76 lead me the wrong way...
Led you the wrong way how?
If they come up with an expansion shell that somehow exposes all 8 pcie lanes to use with an egpu, I'll be the happiest gamer on this earth.
A couple of people on the framework forums are working on OCuLink expansion bay solutions.
Open schematics mean an oculink 8i module is possible kinda trivially
@@Level1Techs
Current community effort seems to be stalled, would you be willing to create one with crowd funding?
@@Level1TechsThey’ve said you could put storage in the shell, though I do not recall the specifics.
@@progenitor_amborellaThat might just be referring to the fact that 8 PCIe lanes is more or less the same thing as 2 M.2 M key slots as long as bifurcation is supported
i love this guy/channel
I wish Framework laptops came with CoreBoot.
I personally thought the watershed moment for AMD was with mobile Zen3 (5000 mobile series), and what really held them back was no way to implement PCI-E tunneling via thunderbolt. With the 7000/8000 mobile series and USB4 implementation though..!
The crazy thing is that they assemble, test, and disassemble them to ship the DIY models. In the future, they will stop this process as their manufacturing improves.
We need some kind of rgb module for the fan. Have watched some reviews already, but have not seen the fan through the keyboard yet
Batteries are removable and replaceable in just about any laptop...
I get that the Framework is a special case and it's definitely something special as far as modularity and everything else but I keep seeing reviewers praising its battery as if that is something out of the ordinary, it's very much the same as nearly every other laptop...
It does seem a little bit easier than other modern laptops, but who's changing internal batteries enough for it to matter? I should note that at least one major brand (named after fruit) glues in their laptop batteries. It's far from easy to change a MacBook battery. AFAIK Surface devices are also a pain but they're more tablet-style devices.
It is me or the overhead camera was just so happy it was shaking
There could be fixed USB-C just because it could be more compact and everyone needs 2-3 USB ports, a charger, a dock, a stick, USB display. Touchpad could be a bit wider, couldn't it? Also, I could use a fingerprint reader, hopefully that can be added in future models. Or a module with 2 USB ports?
Oh wait, fingerprint reader is present in the power button, oh that's cool
In the future when you want to upgrade the GPU, will you be able to trade it in to Framework?
hear me out, how bloody cool would it be if someone created a module for the rear slot that would be a x16 pcie slot with external power, either that or a passthrough to something like a dock port with an x16 slot
iirc, the 7700S connects over x8 but that would still be better than usb4
The options this thing gives are incredible
thinking of it actually, if I ever buy a FW16 I will definitely build that kind of a dock myself for shits and giggles
A couple of people on the framework forums are working on OCuLink expansion bay solutions.
Pretty sure this machine only has support for and x8 slot due to power contraints.
@@andrewr7820 pcie lanes don't really take up much power, still an X8 is much better than thunderbolt. it's got an X8 because of internal CPU lanes and the connector size
Sheer DAYS after my warranty ran out, my motherboard died. The dilemma now is, do I risk getting a replacement mainboard when their customer service was so trash to me?
I hope they achieve 'mortal' pricing at some point. These run about double market price for similar specs from any other manufacturer.
As a Mint desktop AMD gamer, i would love to hear more about power management.
Feels bad to use OC from bios when my current uptime is 11days 20hours.
Lot of wasted energy with my 3700X just existing. :/
The hinge on that system 76 - In general that's been the bane of EVERY workstation/performance laptop I've ever owned. Hinge breaks - mb gets levered - computer becomes flakey - no workie anymore. Big laptop, small laptop, dell laptop, whatever... only machines I haven't had the problem with is Lenovo and Apple. And I just can't with apple anymore and I think the only reason the lenovo doesn't break on me is that I use it mostly stationary - it isn't my travel device, its not a gaming machine, I don't stress it for any applications because its performance is meh. *THAT* is why I ordered a Framework 16. I can *FIX* it and the specs are great for my use case.
Edit: I'm kind of hoping that oculink can be an add-on to the rear module. That's the best place for it - you have that PCI bus interconnect *right there* - you could have an oculink and 1-2 nvme 2280 drives... Or maybe even two oculink ports. I've got to wonder if they hardened the bus link for 240w? Something to think about.
Edit2: I'm not interested in led bling... but if those RP modules could actually get interconnect and GPIO at some point... that could be very useful. Could also be interesting to run a pi-hole on one as a network filter... just a thought.
It looks like Wendel will be the perfect reviewer to test the repairability.
This. I have a rant further down in the comments on hinges. The Thinkpad design was pretty bulletproof.
Unplugging a touchpad while on a meeting is a very Wendell thing to do
Might replace my thinkpad X390 with one of those at some point. Feels like a true spiritual successful to the serviceable and modular thinkpads of old
nice what about connecting 2 of those gpu docks ? and bundle them in a pool and if those dock could draw power form usb-C well that would be something
I stopped using my AMD FW13 and went with a Zenbook due to the USB-PD negotiation failures, random shutdowns in modern standby because something is crashing, and other minor issues.
Uhh. A theoretically upgradeable GPU. Like I want to see this succeed. But right now you have integrated graphics and the 7700S as an upgrade. Until we see more upgrade options it's just a laptop with an optional discrete GPU for now. I really hope that this takes off.
I think its nice that you can swap back and forth between the dGPU module and the (empty spacer?) one. Oh, and wait for the Oculink adapter module...
Wendell, please all those tabs open in the background on the screen hurts my soul. Please set something easier on the heart and soul next time. It reminds me of my 60yo mothers computer who calls me over because her pc is slow but its always just too many tabs open.
Firefox with Auto Tab Discard. It puts other tabs to sleep and frees up the resources used by them. I swear by it.
I priced one of these out with the dGPU and the DIY version with 16GB of ram, a 1TB ssd, and all the ports I'd need and it came out to something like 2300USD. Which is hard sell when Lenovo will sell you a better performing Legion 5 Pro with an RTX4070 for a THOUSAND dollars less. Is the Lenovo as easily repairable? Probably not, but if the thing breaks in 4 or 5 years, I've already got a thousand dollars to buy an all new machine with new components, including a mint chassis (with brand new display hinges). Want to upgrade this in 4 years? Probably need 500-800USD for a mainboard, 400-500 for new GPU that will probably be constrained to a particular form factor (and a low tdp config), and that's assuming the chassis is still in reasonable condition, the company still exists, and they haven't adopted a version 2.0 that only accepts the latest hardware. In a few years you've spent twice as much on a laptop than if you had just bought two (higher performing) laptops.
What happened to Framework 1-15? Don't you only need to upgrade the motherboard to upgrade?
I'm going to assume that since you're on a Level1Techs video, you _aren't_ trolling, and so I'll answer seriously.
1) It's called a Framework 16 because it has a 16" screen. The first model was the Framework 13, because it has a 13" screen.
2) There's more components to a computer than the motherboard. There's the CPU, of course, but also RAM, storage, and optionally a graphics card, all of which can be upgraded in this fine device.
I'm a little concerned that everything is connected with pogo pins, I don't think I've ever had a device with pogo pins last more then two years usually the pogo pins go bad pretty easily
I'm waiting for the tranche that ships later this year. Wish I had it sooner. My Dell G5 has had terrible thermals and roasts you legs if you use it on your lap.
Same. I can only use it on one of those stands that elevates it off the meal tray I put on my lap. Total kludge.
Hopefully AMD and framework get the update out to fix the drive that your OS is not installed on disappearing from windows on wake from sleep pretty soon, it is a bit of an inconvenience.
I hope future iterations deal with the lower half where the touchpad is, the side plates make it look so cheap xD
In an age of extreme consumerism and waste, I would like to see this catch on. It’s unfortunate that attempts to do this before have been thwarted. Go Framework, go!
I am so excited!
Since Linux Mint also uses Ubuntu LTS does it work the same? The major difference is Mint disabled SNAP packages.
I spent 15min wondering what "VELONETE" on the background monitor meant, when I finally realized: le-VELONETE-chs
I would have been nice if you could power the laptop through IEEE 802.3bt.
Its looking really good. I say let framework tesla the laptop industry and Ewaste
When a Ryzen 9000 comes out, replace motherboard and not entire laptop
Come on batch #15! 😁
I wanna get one purely because the discrete GPU can be unplugged 😄
Good laptop, but very expensive, I cant pay 200% mark-up for the modularity. maximum 10 to 15% mark-up
@Level1Techs any chance you will test GPU Passthrough with USB4 on the Framework 17?