BG3 | Does a romanced Astarion's love of Tav/Durge depend on ascension? A dialogue comparison
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- There's a viewpoint that romanced Astarion is a completely different vampire if he ascends. Frequently, the scenes post-ascension are used as "evidence", including the difference in how he tells Tav/Durge he loves them. Interestingly, after playing both paths, I didn't see a huge difference with Astarion [there is a difference in the dialogue options for the player - which, for the AA path, leave a lot to be desired. That's another topic for another day.]
Similarities: language used, tone, facial expression
Differences: UA only tells Tav/Durge he loves them if they agree to a "night of passion" while AA only agrees to a "night of passion" if you accept his proposal to spend eternity together.
Song is here:
• The Smiths x Deftones ...
![[SPOILER] New Astarion's Evil Ending. Patch 7. Baldur's Gate 3](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/u51-BHFs_Ig/mqdefault.jpg)
I mean it has been obvious to me that all of his scenes are written to mirror each other, still, I really like to see them side by side!❤
Thank you for the side by side. All Astarion’s lines are written to mirror each other. This is the same person. The difference for me is the confidence in himself. ❤
Thank you for this as always 🖤 For me, the difference is purely one of confidence. Its the same guy.
Holy haircut
That was jarring. Change it back right now! 😂
Buenooo, claro k sí! Pero por la calidad del video, la temática y todo, me encantooo!
A lot of his facial expressions are a mirror of each other. With same words, different inflections. He's still the same man, certainly. Just subdued or not subdued ❤️ I'll always pick not subdued. I love seeing him at his full wicked potential ;)
He is the same person, just more confident in himself because he is truly free from everything! I love our lord 🥰 And freedom can be depicted in many ways, especially mentally. He can either burn everything down, or copy his past onto Cazadors back, releasing all that trauma from the past 200 years while carving out his new future onto his tormentor, to get rid of his old insecure self and to become a new, stronger version of himself!
Looks like you didn't understand his story at all, and missed the whole point of why Ascended is his bad ending and the only true freedom he can get is when he doesn't perform the ritual i.e. doesn't doom 7000 souls for enternal torment in the Hell.
@@lizapb Hate to break it to you, the Hells can be a better place then getting stuck in the fugue plane as undead monsters (where the best they can hope for is to broker a deal with a devli or hope a god takes pitty on them, the latter being more unlikely). In fact, we don't know that the souls are even going to be tormented, they may become servents to Mephastopholies ... which is a good time to remind that Astarion as a vampire spawn even commented that a devil having his soul would be better than Cazador having it. Furthermore there are examples in game of those that serve devils and are happy to do so, feeling far better treated then they were under the yoke of fellow mortals.
The devils and hells of DnD are not the same as the Hell of our world.
To be frank, I don't care what lesson they may have wanted to teach. The evidence and events in the story make it clear to me. AA and UA are both confident and unconfident in different ways. AA has more confidence in his own power and independence. UA has confidence in his value among his mortal friends/allies. One is currently on a high of his new found status, the other is too focused on his relationship. Each has a struggle yet before they will truely heal, and their respective hyperfocuses are likely to dictate the nature of the pending rough patches they will endure on that journey (if he continues on that path).
@@lizapb "It feels so good. Freedom - True Freedom. Finally"
@@lizapbAscension is his evil ending, not his bad ending lol his journal entry as spawn says that "his fate is sealed" and he's doomed to be a spawn forever. He also says he can't stop thinking about Cazador. While ascended couldn't care less. Having a different opinion than you is not "not understanding the story". People are going to read things differently than you sometimes. I think it's okay to see him gloating and ecstaticly happy as ascended and say that he's free.
@@SquirrellySkepticalNot to mention in his origin the narrator literally says that after the attention a) his heart is beating again; b) he no longer feels vampire hunger unlike Spawn. Even Jaheira and vampire lore says that vampires feel nothing BUT hunger, however we literally have confirmation that he no longer feels hunger and "the appetites of man" have returned to him. And ppl literally say he is not "completely free" unless he remains a Spawn. Yeah, I would also feel extremely free and lighthearted if I knew that I am forever bound to life of shadows and can easily be killed by a high level cleric/paladin/druid/blood hunter/ranger. True freedom indeed 👌
Neil commented on it the best: "... being able to become a friend, fall in love or become a terrible-terrible person".
That quote is not about the three endings, no need to juggle his words.
*whispers* it's a video game.
My durge is munching on Dwarf legs because they heal as a free action.
Meanwhile, AA is trying to keep morale up by saying "you have the vampire ascendant on your side, how can we lose?"
Also Neil said that AA is REAL Astarion. Without any masks. While spawn Astarion STILL has to play his role.
It's like with every red flag. It comes out later, when he becoms possessive and shows that you are his belonging, not another half of his. UA treats you like best friend, life companion, love, someone that he wants to take care of and thanks you to truly free him. AA objectifies you. Before he makes you a vampire, he makes you believe he loves you, then he even can refuse breaking up. He controls you and obssessively watch your every move. It's not the same person, he is just great at pretending when it fits him.
Sadly it's very lore accurate. Most of Vampire Lords are just monsters, when their spawns are victims that is believed to be saved if they are lucky.
It's not the same person? Well, who is it then? Did Petras quickly swap places with him during the ritual?
Here's the thing, Astarion, AA or UA, is a vampire. All of the lore that applies to UA also applies to AA. In fact, since an ascended vampire is Larian homebrew, the D&D vampire lore applies moreso to UA than it does to AA. Vampires are possessive. Vampires are obsessed with power. If the player willingly entered into a blood-bond with a vampire, of course you can't "break up"? AA doesn't try to trick you, he is very clear: Do you want to be mine forever? We can be together for eternity. If the player decided to ignore the words that he is using, well, that's not on AA that the player didn't pay attention, is it? Not being able to break the blood bond between creator/maker/sire and creation/spawn/childe is standard vampire lore.
There is no equal relationship with Astarion and the player, regardless of the path. With AA, you can never be an ascended vampire or as strong as he is. With UA, the player is mortal and has the freedom to: go into homes without an invitation, walk in the sun, not be chased down by monster hunters, walk into water without taking acid damage, etc., none of these are possible for a vampire spawn.
But, to be clear, AA does not, at any point in the game, control anything that the player does. Even as a game mechanic, AA will make suggestions or disagree with the player and then he goes along with whatever the player decides [e.g., becoming a mind flayer, becoming Bhaal's chosen, whatever you decide for the epilogue]. Astarion is not real. Astarion is responding to decisions that you have made, as the player.
You don't have to like that, of course! But your HC within your game is your own and is not broadly applicable to anyone else's game. I am sorry that in your playthrough you felt as though you were being objectified by AA though. Luckily there are many other companions available. I hear Karlach is really popular.
@@RPG_NoMeDiga why did you assume I would let Astarion die again by becoming Ascend? I simply took a path to find a cure for him (where in the canon is plenty possibilities to reverse Vampirism).
The first and main point is about ascended/vampire lord (what we can assume have the same root) is lack of soul. Something that makes elves immortal due to reincarnation circle and holding memories of their past and actual lives. As ascended he has the same issue as mind flayer - it's something else with the memories of the body. That's why Emperor is not a Balduran but an adult tadpole with Balduran memories.
About Vampire lords, they are changed. Its like werewolf in during a full moon but without frenzy. They are not the same as controlled change. We have books in Cazadors Palace that proves that this change is a cycle without control. Its a CURSE.
Ofc in the game he does not control tav. He does that AFTER the game. Epilogue shows it clearly, narrator, other companions, everyone. I do not compain that "mechanically" he controls tav but mentally. He says that saying "I love you" is just something we want to hear, not something he wants to say, he wants us to remember he is above us and all sweets ends when we are under his control.
I feel sorry for everyone that think that AA truly loves tav and I think they should be careful in their relationships.
@@RPG_NoMeDiga also why would I change companion to romance only bcs there is a path when he is a monster? UA is healthy, full of partnership romance with a path to save him (epilogue even say to us that this half of the year helped him to be happy)
@@Mikami_The_Bard lol you do realize the writer and his VA both say it is still him after he ascends. A man who pulls a knife on you at the beach and enjoys watching slaves die isn't exactly what I'd consider a good guy. He tells a player he likes that they should be dictators together. Astarion was never good aligned.
It's also canonly stated by the narrator that Astarion ascended loves Tav. That is a real line. In the game.
If you're trying to suggest the ritual turned him into a DnD true vampire, that's objectively not true. Cazador was a true vampire. The ritual was initially his. Why would a true vampire want a ritual that turns him into a true vampire? DnD states spawn and true vampires cannot feel emotion. They feel nothing but hunger. Ascended says he no longer feels hunger immediately after the ritual. He's something new entirely.
I always find it funny that people somehow assume that Astarion is now magically healed and incapable of being toxic or abusive if he stays spawn. He doesn't tell the PC he loves them unless they agree to sleep with him first if he doesn't ascend. "I can take a man who pulled a knife on me and make him healed and gentle" isn't a very good "lesson". I highly doubt that's what Larian is trying to do with his character arc. He still enjoys killing in the end. Regardless of the route. His approval system is still identical. He's still him.
It's cool if you want to hc otherwise. But what you're saying isn't based in fact.
@@wolficer-66 About the lesson...What happens if it is a vampire, but you don't like vampires and want to make him all better?