How I do an "Amp" check on high voltage Powerlines! (12470 Volts)
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- Опубліковано 20 січ 2024
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Some tools pay for themselves quite quickly. That's one of them!
One of the best night videos on the Internet
That is really cool in terms of the principles of operation.
Normally with an ammeter we like to minimize the air gap, so we usually have a magnetic clamp. But in this case they left it wide open since it means you don't need to worry about a clamp mechanism that gets stuck. They say it has no magnetic materials at all, so I guess it just measures the magnetic field at a set distance from the wire. Perhaps they have a secondary field measurement at a different distance, so they can cancel any ambient fields. That does lose a bit of accuracy but that is acceptable.
It is able to measure the "direction of current" (technically the direction of power flow since the current is alternating) by comparing the current to its voltage measurement. But how does it measure voltage if it doesn't have a second reference electrode? I guess they just weakly capacitively couple to the air around it, which is incredibly inaccurate, but it does give some idea of the *phase* of line voltage, and that's enough for the in/out.
By no means a precision device, but immensely practical and it is exactly what a lone first responding lineman needs!
Makes sense
It uses a open core rogowski coil to measure the magnetic field and an e-field sensor to compare the current and voltage waveform for direction. The are a 1% accurate meter rated down to .5amps.
The Radio Ampstik is rated up to 133kv due to radio communications where the non radio version is rated to 500kv.
The Troubleman’s kit from Sensorlink comes with a Radio Ampstik and a Voltstik. The Radio display can works with both of those units to give the user readings.
The Radio Ampstik he’s using in the video will only give an amp reading. The voltstik is different in function - it clamps and has a second reference electrode to clamp on as well.
It seems Ive spent too much time working with low voltage DC circuits, think circuit boards mid-size computers. I still don't understand how it can determine "power" flow directions. I'd need to see this explained using wave forms and graph.
More power to the people that invented that! (Pun intended)
The current waveform shifts 180 degrees when the power flow reverses.
Thanks for your Consistently Strong 💪Efforts and your Attention to Safety in ALL the Elements you have to Work in. Thank you! 👍🙏
Nice video! Nothing better than making a job go faster. Stay warm 👊👊🏿
That is one handy unit!
Got to love tools that make the job easier and safer.
Nice, I have used an older, heavier model but nice to see current direction too! And yeah, that is pretty well balanced there, nice job who ever planned that balancing.
As usual, very informative and educational 👍 Thanks.
Happy sunday sunday morning!
I wonder if there will ever be a device that permanently sits on the lines like those outage detector lights?
Heimdall Power has the Neuron which clips to the transmission line and monitors for load and temp. They’ll start trialing these in NA this year.
There are, like everything, it comes down to money.
I do believe SensorLink makes 2 overhead recorders that can measure current, PF, kvars, and kwh. They also have an underground recorder that can mount in a underground cabinet or on an elbow.
In Germany we have recently started using fault indicators that monitor temperature, current, voltage and fault direction of the overhead line and report them to dispatch. The system works very well and makes life a lot easier.
The system is called "Smart Navigator 2.0".
Manufacturer "Horstmann"
Similar thoughts here...
Nice unit! A time saver for sure!
Great device! There was neutral up there? Would have been interesting to see neutral amps, if any.
Great video thanks for sharing
GREAT VIDEO!
Handy tools. I doubt that one will last sixty years, though. 😉 Stay warm. God bless.
Stay safe out there and stay WARM !
Almost 1300kVA headed to that village. Any significant industrial load or is it mostly residential?
Some small businesses and fish plants... But mostly cottages and houses.
Awesome!!!
That was a pretty slick demonstration of that new tool. Did they say anything about a problem or why they wanted the readings?
You're casually standing under more than two million watts flowing over those lines! High voltage is amazing.
Cool toys!
Nice demonstration. 👍
Is that particular unit rated for a certain amount of volts? IE up to 20,000 volts, or will it work on any type of voltage? Would it work on triplex for homes?
Datasheet says minimum 200V for the in/out indicator, not that you really care in that application. A bigger problem of course is that if you don't separate the triplex wires, then you just measure the total cable current which cancels to zero.
Is electric resistance heating common there? Heat pumps?
Hey Aaron I’ve noticed in your videos that your company uses 3 finger rubber gloves instead of the usual rubber gloves. As a lineman working in Canada I was wondering if you find them to be warmer in the winter months especially for those long rubber glove hot work jobs?
Seems like in the dark it could be difficult to tell which way the head is oriented, at least if you're concerned about the in vs out. Putting a red LED on one side that faces downwards and a green LED on the other side would make it easy to tell. I know if has the green LED for power on it, but that faces directly out and doesn't appear to be that easy to see when you're directly under it. I'm also a little surprised it doesn't have a min/max/avg function on the display.
👍👊‼️
How does the current direction sensor work? I’m trying to think how I would design the sensor and coming up blank
CTs have polarity to them, even though it's AC. The positive, secondary terminal (X1) is usually in phase with the "in" side of the high voltage window (H1).
You can detect the phase from the electric field around the wires. Then check which direction the current is travelling when the voltage is positive
Any thoughts on if there will ever be a device like this to use on underground ( xlpe etc..) or is just not possible due to the nature of construction for that type? Thanks for your posts
The only way I could see that being possible is by checking the lines where they go into or come out of the ground. In the ground, you have no way to get the head around any of the cables, let alone a single one.
They make 2 different sizes, the standard 2.5" and a 4" opening. It will measure current on URD but the only way to direction is on a capacitive test point. The 2.5" will go over a 200amp elbow and the 4" will go over a 600amp elbow
@@nateroth1302 so IF we have cap test points on our “ connectors “ and IF we got a device like you mention …..it’s doable? POCo is only at the first switches(2) coming in. Then we own it. 13.2 loops with about 22 xfmrs.
@@D.Hozzie yes
Ugh! Aaron you left your till open where you keep your Milwaukee tools? The set return is out folks? 😅 Not to worry. I keep them in the same till on my truck too. My company truck is just a tad bigger than yours that’s all.
You said that device says “IN” and can read the direction of current, but AC has not direction. It just alternates back and forth, so how does it know direction?
I have no idea how it detects it... But I gets it would be more accurate to say it's identifying the "source"
It measures the current and voltage waveform to determine where source and load is.
Detects a phase angle between current and voltage (or B and E field). This way direction of power flow is measured
As I commented above, CTs have polarity to them, even though it's AC. The positive, secondary terminal (X1) is usually in phase with the "in" side of the high voltage input (H1).
@@inothomeYou've repeated this nonsensical answer several times on this video. You're stating irrelevant facts that have no relationship to the question asked.
Whats the voltage on the lines you tested i wanna calculate the wattage
7200 ish phase to ground
It's in the video and the title of the video. 12470 line to line which is 7200 line to neutral. 62 amps average per phase with a total current of 180A from the substation to the downstream load. Loads on each phase are balanced as the current average was the same on each. You would calculate in kVA and either line to line or line to neutral would work.
Calculation with line to line voltage
The apparent power S in kilovolt-amps is equal to phase current I in amps, times the line to line RMS voltage VL-L in volts, divided by 1000:
S(kVA) = √3 × I(A) × VL-L(V) / 1000
That would be about 1295.92 kVA
Calculation with line to neutral voltage
The apparent power S in kilovolt-amps is equal to phase current I in amps, times the line to neutral RMS voltage VL-N in volts, divided by 1000:
S(kVA) = 3 × I(A) × VL-N(V) / 1000
That would be about 1296 kVA
You mention expected current flow direction from the substation. Perhaps not given your northerly latitude, but do you ever see this being flipped due to high PV feed in from rooftop generation? Here in Australia I can imagine there would be times and places where the generation/consumption in some areas would get to and possibly exceed equilibrium. Heck, wholesale prices have even gone negative on some occasions- the grid will pay you to dump power for them.
That's a great comment/question! I'd say you're absolutely right on a select few sidelines. It's still not hugely popular for the majority of homes so I wouldn't see it on main feeders quite yet.
This is one of the reasons direction of flow was added to this product. Knowing when a line is being backfed from either a generator or PV installation.
@@nateroth1302 true, but I doubt any single residence or small commercial PV system will produce enough to throw things off to an entire village. Heck, 100 amps at 240 volts can be counted on one hand (amps wise) once the voltage reaches feeder level.
@@rupe53 no, but when you have whole neighborhoods it is then a different story.
The other issue is the customer who has backfed their generator into the dryer outlet during an outage.... Not all work methods around the world are the same for grounding and bonding
@@nateroth1302 that guy with the portable gen set is not generating enough juice to read in the transmission lines when you consider 5 - 10 Kw at 240 volts is just about nil for amps on a 7200 volt line. There will be voltage, but not enough amps to read in the big picture. The flip side is the potential load on that little set during an outage would have turned it into a smoking pile of rubble already. Been there, done that, and have seen the carnage, several times in my line of work. (recently retired)
Amp check - Fluke - that’s Punny. 😛
Ya beat me to it! 😂
What’s the most amps you’ve seen on a line? Mines 290
On 7200 volts, about 600A and on 120v (2/0 Aluminum, Triplex) just under 1200A lol.... The whole span bursted in flames.... It was -40°C 🥶
do you not have a non contact voltage probe? One would think if you can read the current, you should be able to read the voltage. I would be surprised to find that there is no such tool.
yes, he has one, but it's another tool that reads an approximate range.
Do y'all not have a way to check Amps in the sub
At 90% of our subs we do
So if it's 60 amps per phase, does that mean it's gonna equal 180 Across all three phases
yes, roughly 180 amps total load.
My brother dose industrial electrical work he works at Novelis(formerly Alcan) and he works on giant 10,000 horsepower electric motors that run at I believe 32,000 volts there isn’t enough money on the planet for me to do that kind of work
The largest AC motors run at 13,8 kV
ABB has motors up to 70kV. Called "VHV" motors
@@liam3284 Strange. What purpose are they made for? Such a high supply voltages are suboptimal for units below 50 MW. The largest units I know of are synchronous motors installed on cruisers with supply voltages like 15 kV
My guess is large compressors in LNG compression plants.
@@liam3284 those motors turn ingots that weigh 35,000 lbs in a machine called the hot mill that turns them into thin aluminum sheets that are then rolled into coils
I don't think it's accurate to say the "current" is flowing "that" direction - it is AC after all; but instead the energy flow is toward that direction (or the source is "this side" and the load is "that way").
It occurs to me that current sensors could be scattered all over the lines with cheap microcontrollers and LoRa transceivers. Powered by induction from the line with a supercap for backup power. The LoRa's would form a mesh network and relay the data in near real time to a local substation that has a datalink back to the head-shed. Sampling rate of once per minute or so (probably even slower) would be more than adequate.
Of course that would kill great vids like this, so faggedaboutit!