To help with the hydrogen peroxide coming out of the turbine it could help to mount the catalysator vertically; the fluid stays at the bottom and has a better chance to decompose before exiting to the turbine.
The catalyzer needs to be vertically mounted, bottom fed, and have a high pressure reflux column with baffles to recycle peroxide that hasn't decomposed.
Why not top fed with a parallel exit? I would think that the liquid dripping down through the column would have a better decomp yield - and possibly add a shower-head style drip to spread it over the baffles more evenly?
@@xaqori Bottom fed doesn't require a shower head to be fabricated and if he still doesn't have enough catalyst to fully decompose his fuel gravity is working with you to keep the liquid out of the turbine and require less bleed pressure through the reflux. TLDR; its easier, cheaper and more efficient to go bottom fed. Best part is no part.
Add a steam tank between the catalyst and the motor - two control systems: one to keep the tank at pressure, and another to release that pressure to the motor.
Maybe to improve the decomposition of the peroxide you can have the pump run the peroxide vertically into the catalytic converters. That way the liquid stays at the bottom of the converters and the steam rises up into the turbine.
That was I also thinking + he can put some pressure valve just before the proppeller acting as a buffer so it can have higher output pressure at the end
I’m really enjoying seeing all these engines and rockets. It would be really interesting to see you put all this experience toward an actual small scale rocket.
Im thinking it might be advantageous to mount your reaction chamber vertically, that way you can submerge the 2nd cataliser section, let the H2O2 buble up into the 3rd section, this should help limit the amount of liquid that gets pushed through the turbine. Speaking of the turbine, lm blown away you didnt use the tesla turbine as a comparison. Great video as always.
@@erinfinn2273 or a multi stage chamber so the steam has to pass over more cat with the potential to consume more of the peroxide, only downside i can think of there is possible loss of pressure?
I'd also add that he should try to install some kind of aerosolizing nozzle before injection into the reaction chamber. One issue is the amount of fluid getting pumped in so rapidly. It's a less controlled reaction. If he could inject the H2O2 similarly to how direct injection works in an engine, he could probably drastically increase the efficiency of the entire steam delivery system.
I see two things that needs an improvement, the catalyst tube need to have the output tube it must be in a higher position respect of the input side, so the peroxide can’t exit in a liquid form. The second one it’s the weight of the impeller, you can hear the rpm ramp up sound. Good video.
Making the catalytic tube vertical just like the peroxide tank would automatically add a sort of "distilling" element to the process, making sure all the gas has to pass through all three catalytic converters.
Yeah sitting the cat tube vertically and filling it from the bottom should help alleviate the problem of it pushing H₂O₂ into the turbine. Also to get the most work out of the steam it should be coming in along the axel and exhausting at the outer edge of the radial turbine. The problem with this design , with the steam exiting in the centre, is that the steam is being forced back on itself by centripetal force imparted by the turbine disc. It's also moving to an area of higher pressure as it moves to the centre and as liquid is getting into the turbine and trying to exit vial the centre this is inducing more drag. In short swap the inlet to come it near the axel and the outlet to the bottom of the turbine to drain any liquid
What did you think catalytic converters did? Magically get hot and waste fuel to protect you from carbon monoxide and oxides of nitrogen when driving your hooptie?
@@meateaw I was being facetious. I've had multiple courses on phase and reaction equilibrium as well a kinetics and I've been making catalysts for chemical sensors for years. It's common knowledge in my field but I wouldn't fault Maker's Muse for not knowing. He or she shouldn't feel bad and it is freaking awesome! Anyway, you have it backwards. It's not about how much peroxide is in fuel. Hopefully none until you're ready to rock your rocket as a catalyst isn't needed. The catalyst in your car helps reactive combustion byproducts become less reactive. It's the same for the peroxide. The peroxide is reactive. It allows it to react with itself... That's what catalysts and enzymes do. They're generally a convenient surface for stuff to adsorb onto to then react with themselves and hopefully desorb after. It's usually much faster than waiting for liquid or gas molecules to collide just right so they can react as they would without.
Future idea: Get the community to send you 3D models of rocket nozzle designs that you can print out and test against each other to see if crowdsourced engineering can improve on existing designs
I'd love to know how many uses you could get out of those cat converters. Not a bad video Joel, and keep up with the CNC machining. Whole new possibilities there mate.
There’s no limit, the point of catalyst beds is that they aren’t consumed, they act as a mid step in a reaction with lower activation energy than the reaction without
@@danielfearn6076 there will be practical limits though. Especially when re purposing them from other applications. It's not that the catalyst will itself degrade but likely the binding agents or the structure holding them. I otherwise completely agree with your notion. Decomposing hydrogen peroxide is a quite violent event at the localized site of the reaction.
catalytic converters last many many years in cars and many thousands of miles they will easily last for more than 100,000 miles. so I expect the uses, in this case, are almost limitless because i don't think he can do enough projects to wear them out. The only way they would wear out is by using materials or chemicals that will damage the parts in the catalytic converter. but that is difficult to do i mean in cars they get red hot you just dont see it. there is a video some guy did how a catalytic converter works he cut one in half and put a window on it so you could see how it works on an engine. its a bit like the elements in a toaster they heat up many many times and they just work over and over.
Cats in cars super heat to reburn unburnt fuel....he isn't getting them glowing red however, which means using them to decompose hydrogen peroxide should allow them to last longer
To help with the H2O2 getting into the turbine, you could try a 2 stage reaction chamber. So, have the exhaust of the catalytic converter feed into another plastic tube containing the potassium permanganate doped ceramic thingy that you made in an earlier video. Then have the exhaust from that tube feed into the turbine.
So, first thing as mentioned before: Vertical placement of the catalysators to prevent liquid going into the turbine; Secondly you need more steam nozzles to hit the blades, and maybe a redesign of the blades themselves :) Take inspiration from a turbo compressor ;)
Instead of centrifugal pump design, he should use the design of one of those micro hydro turbines with the dual scopes instead of impellers. The scopes cause the water to turn completely around, imparting maximum force on the turbine. Having a balanced number of nozzles will reduce the imbalanced forces on the turbine, helping the bearings out. The more nozzles, the more power, but the higher flow rate required.
@The Practical 3D Printing Project they extract energy from high velocity fluid. Liquids and gases are both fluids, and super high pressure steam is going to be moving at a tremendous velocity. I'd still like to see him try it, because I think it would be pretty effective.
@@WarrenGarabrandt Sounds like an interesting idea, but how would he manufacture the split scoop design? The bits of his CNC router wouldn't be able to remove the material inside the scoops.
You could scavange a fuel injector and fuel pump from a car. That would give you a good spray pattern into the catalytic converter and as really high flow rate, and granular control over the reaction by manipulating the injectors spray rate by controlling it with some sort of PWM generator (arduino or similar) and some transistors or high speed relays. Cool project!
Was thinking the same but with just a nozzle, I don't think an injector from a car would output enough flow looks like he had to put alit in to get any out, maybe 3 injectors one for each catalyst and then separate tubes
You should do a project on a rotating mass balancer, considering you make many high rpm spinning stuff for your projects. Balancing your spinning projects very accurately would really let your projects perform much better and plus it would be fun to watch you do a video on trying to make a balancing rig on your own!
Theme for a future video:- The electric jet engine which you just made reaches several thousand degrees at the nozzle, what if you convery the exhaust into *plasma*, and see it with a thermal imaging camera, you can do this by attaching a high volt power supply wires at the exhaust and make the part of wires at exhaust with tungsten to prevent melting. Improvement sugesstion:- you can use a porous thing to store Potassium Permanganate and pass the hydrogen peroxide through it, I think it work better than platinum or palladium.
I just followed a course about hydraulic turbine design and to see you put that into practice made my day. Tip if you want to build a good turbine, just look up the Cordier diagram. In short, it tells us that the size and flow rate of a well-designed turbine are intertwined (there are formulas for this). And depending on your flow rate, I expect you need to go smaller.
You can improve your design by making higher tolerances. You can also remove the grease from the ball brings using a solvent, instead us a thin silicone based lubricant often found in spray cans. This way you will remove some of the friction caused by the grease. Another thing you can try is to balance your turbine, set it in a pace where it can be suspended upright, the heaviest point will then move to the bottom, then you can either subtract weight from that side or add some to the other side. Keep repeating this until wherever you rotate your turbine, it will stay. You can also try to improve the power of the turbine by attaching some gears to the output shaft in order to provide more torque.
He doesn't have the equipment to balance the turbine. Components rotating that fast have to be dynamically balanced (what you described is static balancing.)
I want a 3d printer! So here’s my thought on improving the output! We’ve gotta separate the unspent h2o2 from the steam. With the current design, the high pressure is giving you the same problem as with the permanganate. High energy fuel is shot out of the end because the catalyst works too well. If you added a chamber that allows the steam/peroxide mixture to fall vertically into, the peroxide will fall to the bottom, and the steam can be vented from the top. You can connect the top of the separation chamber to the turbine and loop the bottom back into the catalyst chamber. That should both improve the efficiency of the reaction and protect the turbine from peroxide erosion. I don’t think rotating the catalyst chamber vertically will improve the output as well, because you’ll limit the amount of catalyst the peroxide has exposure to. The top converter will really only be exposed to steam. I say keep it horizontal and separate the output.
Great ideas. I have no idea how to accomplish this, but I've heard that there is such a thing as an "air" bearing or a "liquid" bearing supposedly used in jet engines. Another material that is immune to oxidation, unlike aluminum, might be a better choice, though maybe a copper plating of the aluminum would help. Your setup is really cool! I think it deserves being pushed along further.
This was incredible! Thank you for your videos! Design recommendations: Move fuel tank/source away from the AB plume & Clamps, or otherwise secure the high RPM point of failure to a surface so you can continue to create? Lol. Also, if the Aluminum turbine failed at those RPMs, the table & bow tie will do their best, but... NEXT BUILD! It might be wild to use your engine here to power a Strandbeest of some sort. I'd imagine it would look like something out of Howl's Moving Castle! You know... For strictly demonstrative purposes & TOTALLY not to create a giant mechanized death spider ala Wild Wild West. 🤔
I'm thinking the liquid water would add significant drag to the tesla-turbine which would decrease its efficiency dramatically. I'm also of the impression that testla-turbines can deliver less torque but higher power
As some people have already suggested, mounting the cat chamber vertically could help decomposition efficiency. If you do that, you could: Video idea: hook up the turbine to the H2O2 pump with a modest gear ratio, give it a little puff of compressed air to get going, and you have a super dangerous, potentially catastrophic, and hopefully entertaining situation on your hands 😆
It would be really great if you tried to build a steam-powered rocket like the ones used in World War II, but of course smaller 😅 Really instructive video, once again extremely cool to see what was built in the past. (Even if it was not used for good purposes)
A way to possibly fix the wasted hydrogen is to have 2 catalyst tanks and insert smaller amounts alternating into each. This might provide constant flow of power.
Just a thought as well, could you accelerate the reaction by preheating the peroxide before it hits the converters. lastly hook the turbine shaft to the pump and use a valve to throttle it?
It would be so fun that if you make a "steam" powered fuel pump with a turbo jet engine or a rocket engine mounted to the bike/skate board (the oxygen generated from the steam turbine can be the oxidizer for the rocket engine)
Honestly I would love to see if you could use the turbine to remake a V2 rocket. I’d tell you not to put explosives in it but i have a feeling this video already puts me on some sort of list so it’s up to you man.
Damn, why haven't I gotten your channel recommended earlier. Love the content, love the way you bring in both history and engineering in a relatively simple way so a guy like me can follow the video and understand the topics you talk about.
A steam-powered automatic shooter of some sort seems about right. That high-pressure steam has a lot of potential. Oh and about those broken endmills, try single flute endmills for cutting aluminum. I use mostly 6mm diameter single flute at about 10000rpm, 0.8mm depth of cut, and 1000mm/min feed. It blew my mind and cutting has been much easier since!
Can you do a video where you compete all your engines against each other? You've made so many but a head to head competition of which one is the most powerfull would be interesting!
You should start a series where you make an engine every episode and produce electricity with it and compare which are the most efficient and with the most efficient engines you power a skateboard and go through a drive through
Video idea: I've seen a few steam bikes before, but with this safer and more compact method generating steam I wonder if you could make a steam bike that doesn't require the extreme heat and flame of a boiler. Plus this is safer, and far lighter.
The mad lad has done it again. Tbh I really enjoy having history infront of the invention itself. I like having context to the engine you build. Fun fact: You can actually visit an old development site that was made into a museum on an island in the north of Germany called "Usedom". There you can look at the old engines (orininal engines from back in the day) and basicly everything else that was used there to develop and manufacture the rockets. There are still the different launch pads that were used back in the day to test the rockets. It's really worth a visit imo.
Love this!! I would add a high pressure reservoir/accumulator after the vertically mounted catalysts. This would need a high pressure feed pump, maybe common rail fuel injector pump for cars, easily capable of 100 plus bar. Add a pilot operated valve after the pump so as the pressure drops in the reservoir more hydrogen peroxide is added to the catalysts, the fuel pump has a built in return to tank so its always circulating. Could also experiment using injectors to atomize the hydrogen peroxide over the catalysts. The catalyst chamber and pressure reservoir would be at the same pressure so could be made in one high pressure vessel. I would use a small hydraulic cylinder and at least one pressure relief valve. The steam from the reservoir could then be metered through a valve to the turbine for desired power/speed plus having on demand steam without waiting for reaction.
Video idea: make a steam engine powered tomato 🍅 death machine aka Juicer🤭 Also, A longer tube and keeping it vertical will minimise hydrogen from escaping and give it enough time to react.
I would really love to see those Tesla turbines again. Maybe they could power a small car with a clutch and high pressure air tank or some kind of steam from a chemical reaction! Love your videos!
This is on its way to becoming a torpedo, suggest making stators and a reduction gear box to turn propeller an see if steam generator can power an RC torpedo, multi episode build. Keep up the good work
I fully appreciate the hard work and planning that would have gone into this. I do possess a cnc router , a 3d printer but I lack the enterprise and interest you have. Thanks for spurring interest in these type of activities.
Video idea: you NEED a testing chamber. Something Portal themed, in which tomatoes are being tested against your creations. May you prevail over all the Chell that will enter the test chamber and rid the world of tomatoes. #TomatoesAreDisgusting PS: I actually believe that measurement of thrust, efficiency and an overall profiling of the various rockets/turbines/engines would increase your per-revision improvement quite a lot.
You have upgraded the channel with that CNC! You could add an acumulator tank before the turbine to retain the liquid and have only steam going into the turbine. That's used on cooling systems to separate liquid and vapor coolant.
To create an area to pull moisture out by cooling would remove energy away from the steam and decrease the efficiency of the system. Definitely worth playing with.
I’m a Tool maker i would recommend maybe 4140 or another cold roll steel for your components. maybe even Some light stainless steel. often times the metal i use to make armature shafts for large companies at work is really hard stainless steel or pre heat treat 4140
I think it would be really cool to see a rocket made with this idea, using steam as the propellant. The last rocket engine you made with this concept was good, but now, you would get even more thrust, and you could build a working rocket from it. Maybe you could even bring in some electronics to manage the flow of hydrogen peroxide, and overall make it into a really awesome rocket. That's my video idea!
Really impressive project, man. Here's a couple ideas 💡 if you're interested: 1. Polish the turbine and oil the chamber to reduce efficiency losses in the turbine itself. 2. Stage multiple turbines with increasing radii to extract more of the power from the steam as the pressure drops. 3. Use some kind of liquid separator to eliminate fluid passing through the turbine. 4. Use more catalysts in parallel rather than in series. 5. Drive the pump through a heavy gear reduction from the turbine, so that acceleration creates a greater supply of steam.
Hello there Integza, i think it would be pretty cool if you could 3d print a cutom plane and attach one of your pulse jet engines to you, i love the sound they make and think it would be pretty cool watching it fly, I think it could be put in the fusilageof the plane as its not sucking in any air and have the exhaust out the back.
Video idea: Make a mini nuclear reactor or talk about how theoretical you can make it. or just tell more about how the nuclear reactor is working, and how steam is generated.
Hey Joel! Great video again :) You should orient the catalyst chamber vertically, having the hydrogen peroxide being pumped in from the bottom, steam exiting at the top. That should increase efficiency by increasing the yield of steam, as peroxide being forced upwards gets catalyzed as well
I would absolutely love to see any of your rocket/turbine designs used on something you could ride, like a bicycle or a small motorcycle. Even if it powers you for only some seconds, there is nothing like riding it yourself! Greetings from Germany :)
you should make a *high speed camera* (a camera mounted on a rail that goes really fast) it would be a great opportunity to test new designs and i think it would be rlly fun
I can't lie, part of my enjoyment of your channel is the history tie ins to the devices. I would love to see a video from you with a reproduction, of the original Roman toy steam engine ball. It wouldn't be too hard, just a metal sphere with 90° nozzles coming out opposing sides....but then you make a Joel version that spins from combustion.... If you could figure that out it would look so cool.
I don't know if changing the combustion/steam source would do much, but it would be fun to see someone mess around with one. Maybe see how well it could be optimized, and how much real mechanical work you could get out of one. Tune the steamflow to get the optimal results, maybe scrap the Ball shape and go for a Circle.
Here’s my idea: Make a boat or car out of this! I’m curious how much one of these things could actually move and how fast! Alternatively: spin based catapult. Adjusting the mixture composition a little more might help for a little more oomph.
Integza, you could enter the era of electric vehicles by recreating some Tesla creations and updating them. Integza, vc poderia entrar na era dos veículos elétricos, recriando algumas criações do Tesla e atualizando-as. Sucesso! Quem sabe uma impressora 3d não vem pro Brasil 😍
Pre-heat the turbine to prevent condensation of the water vapor and cooling of the oxygen. I think you might be losing a bit of energy with a cold turbine.
I loved this video! The decomposition using a catalytic converter was really interesting. I think it would be cool to see you using different of your engine types to do sort of multi stage system where one spins up the other, or facilitates it's ignition.
Video idea: You've successfully created all sorts of crazy engines, so how about the Adams-Farvell rotary engine, where the pistons are turning around a stationary crank shaft! :D
@sourand jaded nothing unusual? You couldn't just "bolt them down to the frame backwards", they are completely different to radials *except* for having cylinders around a central point.
This might seem like a lot of work, but now that you have access to metal parts, it would be awesome if you could make a rc submarine, powered by some sort of stirling engine or something like that. Few servos, a mini cam, and off you go to conquer the seas!
First thing you should do is to have the cat vertically mounted to reduce the amount of H2O2 coming out into your turbine. On top of that you can shrink the exhaust of your turbine while as well as the spacing between the fins in it. All of that should provide you with a higher energy output since less is wasted through the exhaust. BTW I would absolutely love to get a 3D printer. I study physics and this would really provide me with a lot of fun projects.
I've been wanting a 3d printer for so long i can't even remember. I have sooo many ideas i would love to execute! Next time try making an actual rocket engine, or you can't?
I've always enjoyed your videos but something about the way you made this one is just very, very good. Slightly more chill, really just analyzing different aspects of your design and the project at hand. Not sure if this makes any sense but I really enjoyed it
Video idea: You have printed in both metal and ceramic. Print ceramic heat shields for the inside of metal engines and see if this makes sense for 3D printing an entire engine.
If he makes the ceramic parts first, he can tailor the metal parts via 3d scanner & CNC. that way he can account for the shrinkage on the ceramic parts.
I would really like to see you make a turbo shaft engine using one of your jet engines. Turbo shaft engines are pretty impressive, the amount of power they are able to produce just from the exhaust of a jet engine. I would also love a 3D printer, so, can I get some likes? 😊
8:05 @Integza I have seen in previous videos that the endmills * go into the material too fast. That's probably why you broke so many. That's also at least one of the reasons if not the reason why your cnc machine makes weird noises. *English isn't my first language, so I'm not sure if that's their name
VIDEO IDEA: you could build a Pulse jet airplane like the V1 but without the bomb. But Rember you could try to make a pulse jet without you having to spray air into it.
Video idea: make a HHO or Hydrogen gas generator and run a small internal combustion engine off it , this whould essentially make a "water powered" engine .
you know some guy successfully made a car that work not with gasoline but water few month later he died he killed by probably gasoline companies didn't like him
You can also add a "catch can" between the catalysor and the turbine (an air tight tank), so any liquid can be collected there before reaching the turbine! Your videos are always educationally entertaining 🤣. Cheers
Video idea: Laminated object manufacturing (LOM), it's an old style of additive manufacturing that is technically possible to do manually. Cut layers of an object out of sheet metal (with the CNC router preferably, doing it by hand would take forever!), stack them up, weld them together! Become the 3D printer!
Video idea: seeing as some of your designs produce a lot of heat, you should try and make something to fight that excess heat with some type of cooling system possibly making your engines closer to long lasting. Maybe a small radiator with a fan colling a liquid that would be pumped to circulate around your components? Sure projects could be harder to produce but they should handle more as well.
To help with the hydrogen peroxide coming out of the turbine it could help to mount the catalysator vertically;
the fluid stays at the bottom and has a better chance to decompose before exiting to the turbine.
I thought the same but it'd probably catalyze to slowly, should definitely add a vertical pipe to limit the amount of wasted liquid tho
Also put a pressure valve on the outlet to build pressure before venting to the turbine.
@@systemsrenegade9888 thats a great idea!
@@jordanh9210 It won't be too slow if top fed.
maybe a chambered flask to gather the liquid peroxide and a pressureless return line to the supply flask
The catalyzer needs to be vertically mounted, bottom fed, and have a high pressure reflux column with baffles to recycle peroxide that hasn't decomposed.
Why not top fed with a parallel exit? I would think that the liquid dripping down through the column would have a better decomp yield - and possibly add a shower-head style drip to spread it over the baffles more evenly?
@@xaqori Bottom fed doesn't require a shower head to be fabricated and if he still doesn't have enough catalyst to fully decompose his fuel gravity is working with you to keep the liquid out of the turbine and require less bleed pressure through the reflux.
TLDR; its easier, cheaper and more efficient to go bottom fed. Best part is no part.
Add a steam tank between the catalyst and the motor - two control systems: one to keep the tank at pressure, and another to release that pressure to the motor.
Maybe to improve the decomposition of the peroxide you can have the pump run the peroxide vertically into the catalytic converters. That way the liquid stays at the bottom of the converters and the steam rises up into the turbine.
This is a great idea.
My first thought, totally agree!
yup I was thinking the same thing
That was I also thinking + he can put some pressure valve just before the proppeller acting as a buffer so it can have higher output pressure at the end
And maybe some empty space at the top to let any liquid that gets pushed up fall back down
Make a 3d printer from 3d printing
Wait uh what come first the 3d printer or printing
Genius
The Rep Rap Project would like a word
I’m really enjoying seeing all these engines and rockets. It would be really interesting to see you put all this experience toward an actual small scale rocket.
@Ben 🅥 bro what
Or a actual jet
@@notlone7721 It's a bot. Don't expect it to have any braincells.
@Ben 🅥 spammer
@@LordDragox412 i mean yea but sometimes those are just people that think all random=funny
Im thinking it might be advantageous to mount your reaction chamber vertically, that way you can submerge the 2nd cataliser section, let the H2O2 buble up into the 3rd section, this should help limit the amount of liquid that gets pushed through the turbine. Speaking of the turbine, lm blown away you didnt use the tesla turbine as a comparison. Great video as always.
Yes, I was about to comment how vertical chamber would help!
Also maybe have a longer chamber end section to catch the liquid that bubbles up. Like, a tube that is 4 catalyzers long, but only has 3 for example.
I made the same suggestion before I found this comment. Great minds think alike lol.
@@erinfinn2273 or a multi stage chamber so the steam has to pass over more cat with the potential to consume more of the peroxide, only downside i can think of there is possible loss of pressure?
I'd also add that he should try to install some kind of aerosolizing nozzle before injection into the reaction chamber. One issue is the amount of fluid getting pumped in so rapidly. It's a less controlled reaction. If he could inject the H2O2 similarly to how direct injection works in an engine, he could probably drastically increase the efficiency of the entire steam delivery system.
I see two things that needs an improvement, the catalyst tube need to have the output tube it must be in a higher position respect of the input side, so the peroxide can’t exit in a liquid form. The second one it’s the weight of the impeller, you can hear the rpm ramp up sound. Good video.
Making the catalytic tube vertical just like the peroxide tank would automatically add a sort of "distilling" element to the process, making sure all the gas has to pass through all three catalytic converters.
Yeah sitting the cat tube vertically and filling it from the bottom should help alleviate the problem of it pushing H₂O₂ into the turbine. Also to get the most work out of the steam it should be coming in along the axel and exhausting at the outer edge of the radial turbine. The problem with this design , with the steam exiting in the centre, is that the steam is being forced back on itself by centripetal force imparted by the turbine disc. It's also moving to an area of higher pressure as it moves to the centre and as liquid is getting into the turbine and trying to exit vial the centre this is inducing more drag.
In short swap the inlet to come it near the axel and the outlet to the bottom of the turbine to drain any liquid
I had NO clue catalytic converters could do that to H2O2! Freaking awesome and really does make things so much more practical.
What did you think catalytic converters did? Magically get hot and waste fuel to protect you from carbon monoxide and oxides of nitrogen when driving your hooptie?
@@EnthalpyAndEntropy mine doesn't do anything since those crackheads ripped it off
@@EnthalpyAndEntropywhat a genuinely useless comment.
@@EnthalpyAndEntropy He didn't know they worked on Hydrogen Peroxide, since he probably assumed there wasn't much hydrogen peroxide in fuel.
@@meateaw I was being facetious. I've had multiple courses on phase and reaction equilibrium as well a kinetics and I've been making catalysts for chemical sensors for years. It's common knowledge in my field but I wouldn't fault Maker's Muse for not knowing. He or she shouldn't feel bad and it is freaking awesome!
Anyway, you have it backwards. It's not about how much peroxide is in fuel. Hopefully none until you're ready to rock your rocket as a catalyst isn't needed. The catalyst in your car helps reactive combustion byproducts become less reactive. It's the same for the peroxide. The peroxide is reactive. It allows it to react with itself...
That's what catalysts and enzymes do. They're generally a convenient surface for stuff to adsorb onto to then react with themselves and hopefully desorb after. It's usually much faster than waiting for liquid or gas molecules to collide just right so they can react as they would without.
Future idea: Get the community to send you 3D models of rocket nozzle designs that you can print out and test against each other to see if crowdsourced engineering can improve on existing designs
I'm sure the community will send prints without him doing that
Kind of like the fan showdown
sounds familiar, like a certain fan related showdown. I like it.
This sounds like the dude who does this with PC fans.
Not a bad idea.
@Ben 🅥 get the hell out of here man, how much did that Fierce a$$hole pay you to spam his crap here? Youre sad if your doing this for $10.
I'd love to know how many uses you could get out of those cat converters. Not a bad video Joel, and keep up with the CNC machining. Whole new possibilities there mate.
There’s no limit, the point of catalyst beds is that they aren’t consumed, they act as a mid step in a reaction with lower activation energy than the reaction without
@@danielfearn6076 there will be practical limits though. Especially when re purposing them from other applications.
It's not that the catalyst will itself degrade but likely the binding agents or the structure holding them.
I otherwise completely agree with your notion. Decomposing hydrogen peroxide is a quite violent event at the localized site of the reaction.
catalytic converters last many many years in cars and many thousands of miles they will easily last for more than 100,000 miles. so I expect the uses, in this case, are almost limitless because i don't think he can do enough projects to wear them out. The only way they would wear out is by using materials or chemicals that will damage the parts in the catalytic converter. but that is difficult to do i mean in cars they get red hot you just dont see it.
there is a video some guy did how a catalytic converter works he cut one in half and put a window on it so you could see how it works on an engine. its a bit like the elements in a toaster they heat up many many times and they just work over and over.
Das kruger ischt wunder... vandersteïnklügenoberkleinen
Cats in cars super heat to reburn unburnt fuel....he isn't getting them glowing red however, which means using them to decompose hydrogen peroxide should allow them to last longer
To help with the H2O2 getting into the turbine, you could try a 2 stage reaction chamber. So, have the exhaust of the catalytic converter feed into another plastic tube containing the potassium permanganate doped ceramic thingy that you made in an earlier video. Then have the exhaust from that tube feed into the turbine.
Or inject propane (or similar) and burn it in the oxygen/h2o2 rich atmoshpere,
So, first thing as mentioned before: Vertical placement of the catalysators to prevent liquid going into the turbine; Secondly you need more steam nozzles to hit the blades, and maybe a redesign of the blades themselves :) Take inspiration from a turbo compressor ;)
Instead of centrifugal pump design, he should use the design of one of those micro hydro turbines with the dual scopes instead of impellers. The scopes cause the water to turn completely around, imparting maximum force on the turbine. Having a balanced number of nozzles will reduce the imbalanced forces on the turbine, helping the bearings out. The more nozzles, the more power, but the higher flow rate required.
You beat me to it. the cat is pointing down, allowing the liquid to go to the outlet before the gas.
@The Practical 3D Printing Project they extract energy from high velocity fluid. Liquids and gases are both fluids, and super high pressure steam is going to be moving at a tremendous velocity. I'd still like to see him try it, because I think it would be pretty effective.
@@WarrenGarabrandt Sounds like an interesting idea, but how would he manufacture the split scoop design? The bits of his CNC router wouldn't be able to remove the material inside the scoops.
@@xXxLolerTypxXx oh... Maybe he'd need to buy the scoops and install them into his own wheel.
I didn't know you got a metal cnc, thats sick. You should remake some of your best 3d printed rocket engines now that they wont melt so easily!
I’m so happy you are finally seeing promising results! Good job Joel, you’re a genius!
You could scavange a fuel injector and fuel pump from a car. That would give you a good spray pattern into the catalytic converter and as really high flow rate, and granular control over the reaction by manipulating the injectors spray rate by controlling it with some sort of PWM generator (arduino or similar) and some transistors or high speed relays. Cool project!
Was thinking the same but with just a nozzle, I don't think an injector from a car would output enough flow looks like he had to put alit in to get any out, maybe 3 injectors one for each catalyst and then separate tubes
uwu
You should do a project on a rotating mass balancer, considering you make many high rpm spinning stuff for your projects. Balancing your spinning projects very accurately would really let your projects perform much better and plus it would be fun to watch you do a video on trying to make a balancing rig on your own!
Theme for a future video:- The electric jet engine which you just made reaches several thousand degrees at the nozzle, what if you convery the exhaust into *plasma*, and see it with a thermal imaging camera, you can do this by attaching a high volt power supply wires at the exhaust and make the part of wires at exhaust with tungsten to prevent melting. Improvement sugesstion:- you can use a porous thing to store Potassium Permanganate and pass the hydrogen peroxide through it, I think it work better than platinum or palladium.
Interesting idea
The tube keeping in vertical
Nice video
Nice video
I just followed a course about hydraulic turbine design and to see you put that into practice made my day. Tip if you want to build a good turbine, just look up the Cordier diagram. In short, it tells us that the size and flow rate of a well-designed turbine are intertwined (there are formulas for this). And depending on your flow rate, I expect you need to go smaller.
Video Idea: Making an RC jet-powered boat!
I have my eye on this coment
Thats a cool idea, you can even make it hydroplane to make it go extra fast
Yeah
Uwu
You can improve your design by making higher tolerances. You can also remove the grease from the ball brings using a solvent, instead us a thin silicone based lubricant often found in spray cans. This way you will remove some of the friction caused by the grease. Another thing you can try is to balance your turbine, set it in a pace where it can be suspended upright, the heaviest point will then move to the bottom, then you can either subtract weight from that side or add some to the other side. Keep repeating this until wherever you rotate your turbine, it will stay. You can also try to improve the power of the turbine by attaching some gears to the output shaft in order to provide more torque.
And don't machine parts with the bearings in the stock material.
used to do tis with the bearings for RC car racing
Also maybe move the steam outlet to a higher point above the liquid level
Reducing friction like that will just increase the no-load RPM. Not any practical benefit IMO.
He doesn't have the equipment to balance the turbine. Components rotating that fast have to be dynamically balanced (what you described is static balancing.)
I want a 3d printer! So here’s my thought on improving the output!
We’ve gotta separate the unspent h2o2 from the steam. With the current design, the high pressure is giving you the same problem as with the permanganate. High energy fuel is shot out of the end because the catalyst works too well. If you added a chamber that allows the steam/peroxide mixture to fall vertically into, the peroxide will fall to the bottom, and the steam can be vented from the top. You can connect the top of the separation chamber to the turbine and loop the bottom back into the catalyst chamber.
That should both improve the efficiency of the reaction and protect the turbine from peroxide erosion.
I don’t think rotating the catalyst chamber vertically will improve the output as well, because you’ll limit the amount of catalyst the peroxide has exposure to. The top converter will really only be exposed to steam. I say keep it horizontal and separate the output.
I came here to say, mostly this, just not as well. ;) I hope he builds this.
Great ideas. I have no idea how to accomplish this, but I've heard that there is such a thing as an "air" bearing or a "liquid" bearing supposedly used in jet engines.
Another material that is immune to oxidation, unlike aluminum, might be a better choice, though maybe a copper plating of the aluminum would help. Your setup is really cool! I think it deserves being pushed along further.
This was incredible! Thank you for your videos!
Design recommendations:
Move fuel tank/source away from the AB plume & Clamps, or otherwise secure the high RPM point of failure to a surface so you can continue to create? Lol. Also, if the Aluminum turbine failed at those RPMs, the table & bow tie will do their best, but...
NEXT BUILD!
It might be wild to use your engine here to power a Strandbeest of some sort. I'd imagine it would look like something out of Howl's Moving Castle! You know... For strictly demonstrative purposes & TOTALLY not to create a giant mechanized death spider ala Wild Wild West. 🤔
When you get the catalyzer working better, you should mix fuel with the output and make a steam/rocket motor.
I'm so happy that integza now have access to metal parts!!! Now the things are going to be awesome!!
Would be really interesting to see how this turbine design would compare to a tesla-turbine
Edit: and also compared to a pelton turbine
and I would include a test with a Tesla valve for the one way valve!
I'm thinking the liquid water would add significant drag to the tesla-turbine which would decrease its efficiency dramatically. I'm also of the impression that testla-turbines can deliver less torque but higher power
@@TheWhiteDragon3 I suppose so, but I don’t know for sure so it would be amazing to see a test of that
As some people have already suggested, mounting the cat chamber vertically could help decomposition efficiency. If you do that, you could:
Video idea: hook up the turbine to the H2O2 pump with a modest gear ratio, give it a little puff of compressed air to get going, and you have a super dangerous, potentially catastrophic, and hopefully entertaining situation on your hands 😆
The project i suggest you to make is to make a RC plane powered by Pulse Jet Engine
Nice keep going
Nice
Good idea 👍
Niceeeee
It would be a lot of work to do and plane might catch on fire
It is a good idea tho
It would be really great if you tried to build a steam-powered rocket like the ones used in World War II, but of course smaller 😅
Really instructive video, once again extremely cool to see what was built in the past. (Even if it was not used for good purposes)
yea, that's right, would love to see this.
lol i had seen this right after i had sad that
A way to possibly fix the wasted hydrogen is to have 2 catalyst tanks and insert smaller amounts alternating into each. This might provide constant flow of power.
or mount it vertically
Just a thought as well, could you accelerate the reaction by preheating the peroxide before it hits the converters. lastly hook the turbine shaft to the pump and use a valve to throttle it?
It would be so fun that if you make a "steam" powered fuel pump with a turbo jet engine or a rocket engine mounted to the bike/skate board (the oxygen generated from the steam turbine can be the oxidizer for the rocket engine)
Honestly I would love to see if you could use the turbine to remake a V2 rocket. I’d tell you not to put explosives in it but i have a feeling this video already puts me on some sort of list so it’s up to you man.
and how would a turbine propel this rocket??? you mean RE-MAKE the original V-2??
@@Nobe_Oddy the turbine was for pumping the fuel and oxidizer into the ignition chamber of the V2. The fuel was the propelling force, not the turbine.
ok
Damn, why haven't I gotten your channel recommended earlier. Love the content, love the way you bring in both history and engineering in a relatively simple way so a guy like me can follow the video and understand the topics you talk about.
A steam-powered automatic shooter of some sort seems about right. That high-pressure steam has a lot of potential.
Oh and about those broken endmills, try single flute endmills for cutting aluminum. I use mostly 6mm diameter single flute at about 10000rpm, 0.8mm depth of cut, and 1000mm/min feed. It blew my mind and cutting has been much easier since!
Love the historical tie-ins!
Idea: Attempt to bring a historical concept to life from a project that failed like the Avro Arrow!
Can you do a video where you compete all your engines against each other? You've made so many but a head to head competition of which one is the most powerfull would be interesting!
I think a good 2/3 of them melted or exploded by the end of testing, but that would be a neat video.
You should start a series where you make an engine every episode and produce electricity with it and compare which are the most efficient and with the most efficient engines you power a skateboard and go through a drive through
YES!! Finally working with CNC'ing and working with metals instead of just plastic! WE WANT MOARRR POWWWEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!
Video idea: I've seen a few steam bikes before, but with this safer and more compact method generating steam I wonder if you could make a steam bike that doesn't require the extreme heat and flame of a boiler. Plus this is safer, and far lighter.
The mad lad has done it again. Tbh I really enjoy having history infront of the invention itself. I like having context to the engine you build.
Fun fact: You can actually visit an old development site that was made into a museum on an island in the north of Germany called "Usedom". There you can look at the old engines (orininal engines from back in the day) and basicly everything else that was used there to develop and manufacture the rockets. There are still the different launch pads that were used back in the day to test the rockets. It's really worth a visit imo.
Love this!!
I would add a high pressure reservoir/accumulator after the vertically mounted catalysts. This would need a high pressure feed pump, maybe common rail fuel injector pump for cars, easily capable of 100 plus bar. Add a pilot operated valve after the pump so as the pressure drops in the reservoir more hydrogen peroxide is added to the catalysts, the fuel pump has a built in return to tank so its always circulating.
Could also experiment using injectors to atomize the hydrogen peroxide over the catalysts.
The catalyst chamber and pressure reservoir would be at the same pressure so could be made in one high pressure vessel. I would use a small hydraulic cylinder and at least one pressure relief valve. The steam from the reservoir could then be metered through a valve to the turbine for desired power/speed plus having on demand steam without waiting for reaction.
Here is an idea 3D printed steam powered rc plane. You could find a way to funnel the steam to create enough thrust to create lift.
Video idea: make a steam engine powered tomato 🍅 death machine aka Juicer🤭
Also, A longer tube and keeping it vertical will minimise hydrogen from escaping and give it enough time to react.
😆
Leave the tomatoes alone man
You mean a blender?
@@shubhamchannel792 reverse veganism lol
@@BigFella9 that's one new word to my dictionary >.
Try mounting the catalyzer vertically and adding a chamber to capture the extra liquid peroxide.
actually a really good idea imo
I would really love to see those Tesla turbines again. Maybe they could power a small car with a clutch and high pressure air tank or some kind of steam from a chemical reaction!
Love your videos!
This is on its way to becoming a torpedo, suggest making stators and a reduction gear box to turn propeller an see if steam generator can power an RC torpedo, multi episode build. Keep up the good work
I fully appreciate the hard work and planning that would have gone into this. I do possess a cnc router , a 3d printer but I lack the enterprise and interest you have. Thanks for spurring interest in these type of activities.
Video idea: you NEED a testing chamber.
Something Portal themed, in which tomatoes are being tested against your creations.
May you prevail over all the Chell that will enter the test chamber and rid the world of tomatoes.
#TomatoesAreDisgusting
PS: I actually believe that measurement of thrust, efficiency and an overall profiling of the various rockets/turbines/engines would increase your per-revision improvement quite a lot.
You have upgraded the channel with that CNC! You could add an acumulator tank before the turbine to retain the liquid and have only steam going into the turbine. That's used on cooling systems to separate liquid and vapor coolant.
To create an area to pull moisture out by cooling would remove energy away from the steam and decrease the efficiency of the system. Definitely worth playing with.
I’m a Tool maker i would recommend maybe 4140 or another cold roll steel for your components. maybe even Some light stainless steel. often times the metal i use to make armature shafts for large companies at work is really hard stainless steel or pre heat treat 4140
I think it would be really cool to see a rocket made with this idea, using steam as the propellant. The last rocket engine you made with this concept was good, but now, you would get even more thrust, and you could build a working rocket from it. Maybe you could even bring in some electronics to manage the flow of hydrogen peroxide, and overall make it into a really awesome rocket. That's my video idea!
I would love to see a multistage sugar rocket. I think it would make a great video. Great turbine by the way!
Make a thrust tester for it ,
Measure it.
And put it carefully to a plane
Makes no sense 😄
Really impressive project, man. Here's a couple ideas 💡 if you're interested:
1. Polish the turbine and oil the chamber to reduce efficiency losses in the turbine itself.
2. Stage multiple turbines with increasing radii to extract more of the power from the steam as the pressure drops.
3. Use some kind of liquid separator to eliminate fluid passing through the turbine.
4. Use more catalysts in parallel rather than in series.
5. Drive the pump through a heavy gear reduction from the turbine, so that acceleration creates a greater supply of steam.
Hello there Integza, i think it would be pretty cool if you could 3d print a cutom plane and attach one of your pulse jet engines to you, i love the sound they make and think it would be pretty cool watching it fly, I think it could be put in the fusilageof the plane as its not sucking in any air and have the exhaust out the back.
Video idea: Make a mini nuclear reactor or talk about how theoretical you can make it. or just tell more about how the nuclear reactor is working, and how steam is generated.
Good idea
nice idea
I am loving that you're moving into stronger and stronger parts for your projects. Keep pushing those limits!
00:10. I would love to see you put a gear reduction on that, and use that torque to crush tonatoes, and other stuff
Hey Joel! Great video again :)
You should orient the catalyst chamber vertically, having the hydrogen peroxide being pumped in from the bottom, steam exiting at the top. That should increase efficiency by increasing the yield of steam, as peroxide being forced upwards gets catalyzed as well
also, dont overflow the cats. there's a sweetspot flowrate to be found.
I would absolutely love to see any of your rocket/turbine designs used on something you could ride, like a bicycle or a small motorcycle. Even if it powers you for only some seconds, there is nothing like riding it yourself!
Greetings from Germany :)
you should make a *high speed camera* (a camera mounted on a rail that goes really fast) it would be a great opportunity to test new designs and i think it would be rlly fun
was gonna say lol, yeaqh just build a high speed camera, but you mean a high speed camera track
Every new video he makes about the V2 rocket he gets closer to making a bomb😂
Video idea: You could use this reaction to power a radial engine which then moves a skateboard or something like that.
Idea: You should try to make a small sterling engine to power a skate board
I can't lie, part of my enjoyment of your channel is the history tie ins to the devices. I would love to see a video from you with a reproduction, of the original Roman toy steam engine ball. It wouldn't be too hard, just a metal sphere with 90° nozzles coming out opposing sides....but then you make a Joel version that spins from combustion.... If you could figure that out it would look so cool.
I don't know if changing the combustion/steam source would do much, but it would be fun to see someone mess around with one. Maybe see how well it could be optimized, and how much real mechanical work you could get out of one. Tune the steamflow to get the optimal results, maybe scrap the Ball shape and go for a Circle.
4:29 damn those are some quick fingers
Here’s my idea: Make a boat or car out of this! I’m curious how much one of these things could actually move and how fast!
Alternatively: spin based catapult.
Adjusting the mixture composition a little more might help for a little more oomph.
oh yeah this reminds me of the guy who made a fly wheel into a catapult, so turning a turbine into a catapult doesnt seem too far off
Love your videos! You could build a steam powered coffee machine next time! If you have to do an all nighter 😉
Video idea : make a mini steam powered boat
Steampunk style would be nice
Steam powered go kart. Would be awesome if it was a collaboration with Colin Furze as well
You should try to mount one of your more officiant engines to a roll stabilized rocket and launch it in a field somewhere.
Integza, you could enter the era of electric vehicles by recreating some Tesla creations and updating them.
Integza, vc poderia entrar na era dos veículos elétricos, recriando algumas criações do Tesla e atualizando-as.
Sucesso!
Quem sabe uma impressora 3d não vem pro Brasil 😍
Pre-heat the turbine to prevent condensation of the water vapor and cooling of the oxygen. I think you might be losing a bit of energy with a cold turbine.
I was thinking that + heating a pipe going to the turbine, but at that point things start to get pretty dangerous.
Video Idea: make 3D printed hovercraft. You can use compressed air to allow the hovercraft to float and to propel it forward.
Idea: A full-fledged mini railway system, with trains operated using the steam engines, maybe even adding a Heavy Gustav railway gun:)
I loved this video! The decomposition using a catalytic converter was really interesting. I think it would be cool to see you using different of your engine types to do sort of multi stage system where one spins up the other, or facilitates it's ignition.
Video idea: You've successfully created all sorts of crazy engines, so how about the Adams-Farvell rotary engine, where the pistons are turning around a stationary crank shaft! :D
@sourand jaded radial engines have static cylinders, rotary engines don't. They're superficially similar at most.
@sourand jaded nothing unusual? You couldn't just "bolt them down to the frame backwards", they are completely different to radials *except* for having cylinders around a central point.
This might seem like a lot of work, but now that you have access to metal parts, it would be awesome if you could make a rc submarine, powered by some sort of stirling engine or something like that. Few servos, a mini cam, and off you go to conquer the seas!
ok
First thing you should do is to have the cat vertically mounted to reduce the amount of H2O2 coming out into your turbine. On top of that you can shrink the exhaust of your turbine while as well as the spacing between the fins in it. All of that should provide you with a higher energy output since less is wasted through the exhaust.
BTW I would absolutely love to get a 3D printer. I study physics and this would really provide me with a lot of fun projects.
you have to equip a toy train with a steam turbine, to see how fast it goes.
ok
can probably buy one that says ''made in china'' , like everything else people Think they invented in countries other then china
@@ThermaL-ty7bw 🤣
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_turbine_locomotive
I've been wanting a 3d printer for so long i can't even remember. I have sooo many ideas i would love to execute!
Next time try making an actual rocket engine, or you can't?
I've always enjoyed your videos but something about the way you made this one is just very, very good. Slightly more chill, really just analyzing different aspects of your design and the project at hand. Not sure if this makes any sense but I really enjoyed it
Video Idea: you could try to make a small solar thermal power station, perhaps with an mk2 Stirling engine improving on your first one
Video idea: You have printed in both metal and ceramic. Print ceramic heat shields for the inside of metal engines and see if this makes sense for 3D printing an entire engine.
Agreed!
If he makes the ceramic parts first, he can tailor the metal parts via 3d scanner & CNC. that way he can account for the shrinkage on the ceramic parts.
I would really like to see you make a turbo shaft engine using one of your jet engines. Turbo shaft engines are pretty impressive, the amount of power they are able to produce just from the exhaust of a jet engine. I would also love a 3D printer, so, can I get some likes? 😊
Integza turbine has a nice ring to it
video idea: built a steam powert car
8:05 @Integza I have seen in previous videos that the endmills * go into the material too fast. That's probably why you broke so many.
That's also at least one of the reasons if not the reason why your cnc machine makes weird noises.
*English isn't my first language, so I'm not sure if that's their name
Make a engine using HHO which is the product of electrolysis
Good idea 👍
👍
👍
Since you know so much about rockets and engines you should try to build a small scale v2 rocket and use parachutes to recover it
You should make a steam locomotive that makes use of an air engine, and then not using something like a turbine but more like a horizontal cylinder.
VIDEO IDEA: you could build a Pulse jet airplane like the V1 but without the bomb. But Rember you could try to make a pulse jet without you having to spray air into it.
Video idea: make a HHO or Hydrogen gas generator and run a small internal combustion engine off it , this whould essentially make a "water powered" engine .
you know some guy successfully made a car that work not with gasoline but water few month later he died he killed by probably gasoline companies didn't like him
building a steam powered go cart would be cool
I'd like to see some sort of steam powerd catapult or Trebuchet of sorts that might even use a flywheel to spin up and build energy before lunch
what about building up energy before breakfast
Interesting idea: may a rocket with bigger than usual wings, glide down after the fuel ends? I think that the answer might be interesting :)
so like the v1 rocket?
You can also add a "catch can" between the catalysor and the turbine (an air tight tank), so any liquid can be collected there before reaching the turbine!
Your videos are always educationally entertaining 🤣.
Cheers
Video idea: Laminated object manufacturing (LOM), it's an old style of additive manufacturing that is technically possible to do manually. Cut layers of an object out of sheet metal (with the CNC router preferably, doing it by hand would take forever!), stack them up, weld them together! Become the 3D printer!
Video idea: seeing as some of your designs produce a lot of heat, you should try and make something to fight that excess heat with some type of cooling system possibly making your engines closer to long lasting. Maybe a small radiator with a fan colling a liquid that would be pumped to circulate around your components? Sure projects could be harder to produce but they should handle more as well.
Lemme ratio myself