If you'd like to join the discord server, here is a link: discord.gg/r7Y3FyNBk4. There are over 300 members so far. Love to have you be part of the conversation!
Yeah, I agree, Marvel needs to get their definitions down before we get too much farther into the multiverse saga. Interchanging terms is really confusing. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Man, I have to tell ya you put out one hell of a video. It’s the first video I’ve watched in a long time from start to finish. That was almost an hour long. It was very detailed very intriguing and very thought out. Kudos to you and everyone that helped you. One suggestion would be as we get more movies in the MCU that you could go back and amend this video and keep this in up-to-date video about the Multiverse.
Well said! It's gonna be a wild ride all the way up to Secret Wars. Should be a fun trip from beginning to end! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
15:10 I honestly think the TVA took care of it & just pruned the branches the Avengers created in the Time Heist. Because we see the Infinity Stones used as paper weights. The time heist probably happened a lot as well throughout the timeline.
Bro you are easily the most dedicated MCU fan out there. Mad props dude. Marvel needs to hire you. Though I guess there’s a variant of you who runs the MCU somewhere in the multiverse lmao
LOL! Yes, I suspect my variant has the job with Marvel that I would love. Oh well, hopefully he watches the videos. 🤣 Thanks so much for the positive feedback. Truly appreciate it!
Kang's getting absorbed in the Multiversal engine is definitely to give him superpower in order to make him the most powerful of the Kang. Also to top Thanos as the big bad guy. Imagine how terrifying he is with superpower when he's already scary with only his suit
@@stickerjunkieproofs6611 Yeah, that comic book hairstyle sure screams Hasselhoff for sure. But I'm down with the character race swap...I mean consider that Hasselhoff was the first to play a live action Nick Fury...but can you imagine anyone else but Sam Jackson playing that role? So I suspect Jonathan Majors will be an incredible Beyonder, or whatever name they give his powered up Kang. It's gonna be awesome!
It’s so comforting to me that we always share the same thoughts, for example, you said: “whether or not you believe that Tobey and Andrew’s universes existed prior to He Who Remains death is up to you, I personally believe they did though” and I be like: “hey! Me too! This guy knows how things REALLY works” hahaha! Even our headcanons are similar.
They did and they didn’t cus of how time works I guess as soon as he who remains was killed even though kang had just popped up he’d always had been there while also just now coming into existence
The way I see it, the TVA and He Who Remains actually just isolated MCU-616/199999 (according to the Illuminati and Spider-Society’s Reality Designation Systems respectively) from the rest of the Multiverse. Essentially, what this means is that, at least until He Who Remains’ suicide by Loki Variant, the other universes that might have appeared at the beginning of the Multiverse and their branches might have been unable to interact with MCU-616/199999 and vice versa. One example of this phenomenon could be the events of Into and Across the Spider-Verse. The team of Spider-Totems in Into the Spider-Verse never interact with MCU-616/199999. Fast forward about a year and four months and we see MCU Prowler in the Spider-Society’s Energy Cocoons. I think that Into the Spider-Verse takes place sometime before the death of He Who Remains. Now that the MCU can branch, the Spider-Society can extract Variants from there for whatever they need them for.
I truly belive all shows.. like old marvel content all x men movies and even agents of shield can be easily explained by saying they are branched timelines:
The multiverse is insane at the moment, and it’s not gonna slow down. Also random thing I want from Secret Wars is a Hugh Jackman Deadpool variant and a Ryan Reynolds Wolverine variant, that would be amazing.
Gotta have them both in Secret Wars. I hope DP3 brings them into the MCU in a way that they can also appear in Secret Wars for their next appearance. Phase 5 and 6 are gonna get wild!
I’ve been with you ever since you started this MCU craze around 7 months ago and I gotta say your confidence is gleaming in this video, keep up the good work
Wow, thanks so much for being here that long. It's been a fun ride. I really did the first vid on a lark as I enjoy the MCU so much and thought I'd just have some fun with it. I'm so thrilled that people have responded positively, as I really enjoy making the videos. Thanks again for being her from the start. I truly appreciate it!
I would love that so much. I think it would be fascinating to see it all play out. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Perhaps for as where variants are within the Quantum Realm, they are always there but are only seen by people in other universes when in areas where there is a pull from other universes such as around the core in Quantumania (as it was used to cross universes) and thats how the Probability Storm works. Maybe this is explains Ghost's powers as she is interacting with versions of herself (Quantum Entanglement) which is what makes her glitch out and be out of phase as you said almost like the inverse of America Chavez. When the firefighters first find her she is both there and not there like Schrodinger's cat which was also how MODOK described Probability Storms to Scott. I think it would be a great explanation of her powerset as Ghost was one of my most hyped characters to return in Thunderbolts and could lead to a redemption arc in Kang Dynasty or Secret Wars as a very left field Nexus Being that no one would see coming.
Yes, I think your explanation is perfect for how variants avoid running into themselves in the Quantum Realm. Love that reasoning. And I was also excited to see Ghost return in Thunderbolts. Hope we see her somewhere soon, if it's true that she won't be in Thunderbolts after all. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
I hope everyday that the timeline guidebook will explain the first multiverse war and the events of Loki/Quantumania changing how the 2nd multiverse war plays out. I’m guessing Kang doesn’t fight antman in the original war so that’s what changes it. It would be cool to get a video on your thoughts about how all that connects and changes if you haven’t made one already. Another rest video, I wish I put this much study effort in while I was in school😂
I agree, I'm really hoping the timeline book will tell us alot about the multiversal wars. I can't wait for that book to come out. And you made me chuckle about not putting this much effort in studying at school. Totally with you on that! 🤣 Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
As someone who didn't watch Loki and was a bit lost with how multiverses worked, this video was wonderful. It felt like a 5 minute breeze, super well explained. Keep up the good content man
Thanks for the positive feedback. Yeah, even though I watched Loki, it still helped to lay everything out like this. My mind works alot better when I can visualize everything with an image or diagram and there was definitely alot to put together. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I think that ‘He Who Remains’ sent his variants somewhere we don't know yet, and when Sylvie killed him the variants broke free, just like when Odin died and Hela broke free from her exile. Hopefully we’ll know more about it in Loki S2.
I was so confused until the visual image. It helps a lot. Thank you for that. I still wanna understand why Kang appeared to Janet at that specific moment. My theory is he was already there and saw an opportunity in Janet. Not a great theory, but it's what I choose to believe. My other theory is that it wasn't Kang who appeared at that time but Janet who happened to cross paths with him at the same time of the other Kangs exiling him. Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced by any of that but it being a place outside of time and space the rules are not clear enough. Maybe it was just fate them meeting each other. We see it as if Janet went into the quantum realm in 1987 and Kang in some other point in time but maybe both things were happening at the same time. I'm confused and I want answers. lol
Yes, I'm with you that I was very confused until I made that image and laid it all out. I'm a visual person, so that really helped me to see it represented that way. And I agree, I want to know the details behind how Kang appeared at that particular moment. I wonder if we will learn more when Loki S2 comes out. C'mon Marvel, ya gotta answer these questions for us! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Im preatty sure the Kang in the quantum realm got exiled after he who remains dies. Basically he is part of the second multiverse. Then it would me make sese cause he just got exiled at that point. Also my theory is that the exiled Kang will become he who remains. In ant mam 3 he basically shows us his plan for rge sacred timeline and his motivations are exactly the ones of he who remains. Also in Loki he who remains said that if they kill him, his variants will start anothe multiversal war, he will be created again because of the multiverse and its all gonna play out the same. So basically its a loop of multiversal war, he who remains, Sylvy killing he who remains, multiversal war and so on..
@@filthycasual8517 Yeah, I agree, the hardest thing to figure out is when the Kang in QM was exiled. The reason if feels like it happened during the first multiversal war is Kang shows up in the QR at a point before Endgame had occurred in Janet's timeline. So if Janet had left the QR in 2018 and told everyone about Kang, it could have prevented the situation that led to the time heist, which created Loki, which resulting in HWR's death, which led to the 2nd multiversal war. It seems like there is a cause an effect relationship to Kang's banishment and Endgame due to Janet meeting him prior to Endgame happening. But just a theory on my part. The relationship between the Kang council which is outside of time and Janet, who is inside time, is very confusing indeed. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I’m really hoping they do something with Iron Lad just because that was so important for the creation and also relationship building of the Young Avengers. How awesome would it be to see Cassie Lang with a Kid Jonathon Majors and the big reveal that it’s a varient of Kang lol
I can agree that the movies have felt a little lacking with phase 4 but, I’m unsure if it’s: 1) bc I’m subconsciously expecting Infinity War/Endgame level spectacles 2) bc the MCU’s world has expanded so much that it’s confusing and convoluted 3) or bc the movies have genuinely just gone down in quality. I def think it’s a bit of all 3 but, regardless of why, I really don’t think that the MCU is dying like other fans are claiming. I think that the MCU is just growing and changing in ways we don’t really understand yet. The MCU and fans are just dealing w growing pains as they expand their roster of characters and stories. I’ve def scaled back my expectations for future movies but, I still am looking forward to how Marvel and the creative minds behind the franchise move forward w the universe they created.
Great commentary. It could be abit of all of the reasons you mention, but I suspect it is mostly #3 and that it was a result of Chapek pushing for quantity over quality. Iger coming back is huge and will result in a much better product. Feige has hit the brakes on some future projects (such as The Marvels) to get things in order. I think that we're going to see better stories and better VFX in future installments. Unfortunately QM was too far along to benefit from the new push for quality over quantity, but I think it will get alot better going forward. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I think the quantum realm is somewhat geographic, that's why when you leave you come back into your universe, and why you don't meet any other Scott langs and Janet van dynes that are down in the quantum realm because they're geographically under their universe, maybe you could find them if you traveled far enough
Yes, that could indeed be the answer. I also wonder if you are some how out of phase and can't encounter your variants in the QR. Sorta like how the probability field showed as all of the Scott's at once, but outside of that field, we only saw one. I wonder if somehow that's tied into it. Will be interesting to see if they give us more info on the QR in later MCU entries. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
17:50 This is basically the crux why Marvel's timeline and multiverse is so confusing They don't understand timelines are not a multiverse The universes that form a multiverse are alternate realities, not related to one another, like the Xmen and Sony Spiderman movies are separate realities from the MCU's 616, but in the same multiverse, they basically exist on top of each other, and can connect, but normally can't interact with each other Timelines are variants stemming from one single universe, branching out either from time travel or just different events, the only way to go from one timeline to another is to directly manipulate the events that lead to the timeline you want, akin to what the TVA does
Well said! Yes, I am hoping that after Loki's finale, Marvel has made it clear that the 616 is one universe with branching timelines and there are other completely separate universes with their own branching timelines. Together, they make up the multiverse. Totally agree with what you said!
Correction: Christine's immediate death could not have been an absolute point in time, because she is alive in 616, strange did become a sorcerer. I think the absolute event was that strange could not end up with Christine. And the universe was prepared to kill her final destination style to ensure that happened if strange was so stubborn that he insisted on being with her.
Well, remember, in the What if episode, she died and that was what caused the alternate timeline. And in that alternate timeline, Christine's death was an absolute point in time, as her death was the reason Strange delved into the mystic arts. Hope that makes sense. Definitely correct me if I'm wrong on that. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Okay, now that's a wild theory. Wouldn't that be something if they go that direction. They did bring him back for Endgame during Tony's funeral. You could be on to something! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I'm so happy I found your channel like a Month ago; I just got finished watching Quantumania and I saved this video for later, and I must say the work you and your discord put into trying to understand what even some PRODUCERS and DIRECTORS don't, is just amazing love everything you do and I just wanted to let you know.
Thanks so much! I truly do appreciate you saying that. It's so much fun to put the videos together. Takes alot of time, but brainstorming ideas with the server is a blast. Really appreciate you watching and leaving your feedback on the vid. Again, many thanks!
I think you are misinterpretting what Feige said about different "realms" in the leadup to Dr. Strange. When he says those are different than the multiverse, I think that means that each multiverse universe has all these realms connected to it. There only being one Quantum Realm, for example, wouldn't make sense even without bringing the What If episode into play, because at the moment Janet went into the Quantum Realm from 616 she would also enter it in infinite similar multiverses. If there were only one Quantum Realm, it would be full of slightly different Janets all entering from about the same time period. The same couldbe said for many of the other realms you talked of (infinite Stranges in the Dark Dimension or infiinite Gamoras and Black Widows in the Soul Stone's dimension)
Oh, I don't disagree with you at all about the confusion of the QR. I mean, I don't think it works if there are multiple QRs, as I don't get how it then operates as a gateway between universes. But I don't like there being only one either, due to variants running into each other. However, Loveness was really clear in his quote that I mention in the video that there is only one QR for the multiverse. So my assumption is that there is something going on, like perhaps variants are out of phase with each other, and thus the variants can't sense or see each other. I just don't know how to solve it, but whether there is only one QR or multiple QRs, there are issues in both cases and we'll just have to wait and see if Marvel explains how it works in later entries. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Yes, the budget for Secret Wars will be insane. But if they do it well, it could surpass even the astronomical returns of Endgame. Should be exciting as things continue to unfold! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Ah, now that's a great theory! You are right, something has to explain that robotic body. I love that idea! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I am genuinely confused as to why so many people think Quantumanias Kang is actually dead. Also I think that the Nexus event in Loki episode 3 is that they were gonna die which wasn’t part of He who remains plan
I agree, there's no way that Kang is dead in QM. He's coming back and he's going to be very ticked. And I also agree that the nexus event was that they were going to die. I could imagine HWR caused the monitors to register a giant nexus event to get them rescued ASAP. Great comments! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I definitely believe that with Ms. Marvel that it was a fixed point so this was meant to happen. And across the spider verse added a whole bunch of new realities since they mention the mcu as Earth-199999 in the movie
Good theory on Ms. Marvel. I do hope they tell us more about her time travel in The Marvels...can't wait to see what someone can do with both bangles in their possession! And I agree, I may need to update the video now that the Spider-Verse movie has added so many new realities!
Great video as always. I wasn't that bothered by Ms. Marvel because it seemed to operate by Agents of SHIELD's other method of time travel they used before season 7 (using the monolith). It seems like there are ways to travel back in your own timeline, but anything you do will have already happened because the flow of time is an illusion. The best illustration of this is Simmons's experiment where she drank the correct three out of four beakers without knowing which one would kill her. (The only exception is when Daisy actually breaks that rule at the end of the season, which I don't like.) EDIT: I did just have a long conversation about this on your discord and it should be noted that technically season 5 never used these rules, it just misled the viewer to believe they were the rules
Yeah, I agree, the Ms. Marvel time travel isn't my favorite, but I also think it was very contained and specific to the bangles and to her personal history. As for the AoS time travel, it continually confused me. But I did at least like in S7 when Fitz used the quantum realm to get everyone back to their main timeline. That was awesome. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Okay here is my personal explanation for Time Travel/Branching timelines: There is leeway, what I mean by that is basically certain things can change, even events can change but only to a certain extent. Like we saw in Loki, the old man Loki lived countless years without getting pruned.. but why is that? Because he didn't actually change anything, yes he technically didn't die, but to the rest of the universe he still died. He Who Remains basically wrote the MCU, certain events are supposed to happen in a certain way and anyone who changes those events too much gets pruned/creates a new branch. but that doesn't mean ANY change will create a new branch. Let's take the Hulks example, if they were to put the stones back moments after they left the reality its possible that it would effect so little that the universe would continue as normal. I see the sacred timeline not as one single timeline, but a set of woven timelines that are almost identical My proof for this is the Dr. Strange episode of What If, they specifically said in that episode there were TWO Doctor Strange's in ONE timeline. But how is that possible? their worlds are different, one lived for 100s of years and the other didn't. It isn't possible unless timelines don't actually have hard limits, what if they blend into eachother like how a rope is actually made of thousands of separate fibres. To me this shows that timelines can shift in and out of eachother if not too much is changed. And like in the Dr. Strange episode, if too much is changed then an incursion happens, but the interesting thing about the one in the Dr. Strange episode is that it didn't collide with another universe.. no, it simply unravelled. From a meta perspective I think that the rules are just inconsistent even on the best of days, but if i had to explain in canon what's happening, here it is (imma use Kang and He Who Remains interchangably): Timelines are flows of events and possibilities, if an event, decision or change is great enough it causes a Nexus event which splits the timeline. This means you can effect your own timeline if you do not change much, Captain America could technically stay in his timeline if he changed NOTHING else, that means he couldn't have saved people, told people about stuff like 9/11, stuff like that. it could be a closed loop, like Ms. Marvel, as long as Captain America didn't change much. With the sacred timeline Kang has a specific vision in mind, so these real life inconsistencies dont actually bother him that much. in Loki it was said that the avengers going back in time was supposed to happen, while Loki escaping was not, this to me says even in scripted events there is still free will, things can still happen. Fate, Luck and Free Will all exist at the exact same time in the MCU. So, if Luck and Free Will are variables, it makes sense that He Who Remains would make it so that little changes or plotholes dont tear the sacred timeline apart. It has got a failsafe, not just with the TVA but there's a certain level of change Kang allows in his script. I think a Nexus event only occurs when it would directly effect another movie. If Loki didn't die, but pretended to be dead, Endgame would play the same if Loki didn't die, but didn't pretend to be dead, that would cause a branching timeline. the conversation between Bruce and the Ancient one could have also not made a branch, not only because this time travel was basically written into the script by Kang, but also because its possible The Ancient One wouldn't change her approach to Steven in any way, meaning no Nexus event. now, POST multiverse I think its actually different. Before Kang was allowing things to happen, things which broke the rules of timetravel were his doing, but now that the multiverse has erupted outward and has no one person controlling it, everything time related is a branch. So when someone says "Why didn't Steve going back in time cause a branch" you can say "cause the script demanded it" and its not even meta, because He Who Remains controls time. If he liked a story better, he'll break his rules to make it fit that narrative. To him, there are no actual rules of time travel, only the rules he imposed on the universe he is the script writer, who has canonically written every single movie. essentially, all plotholes just got explained "Kang did it" which is brilliant and hilarious. so yeah, it technically makes sense, only because they made a script writer character who we can blame in canon for inconsistencies
Love all those theories. I will throw out a few thoughts I had after reading your excellent comments: - On the Dr. Strange What If episode, I was thinking the only reason there were two Dr. Strange's was the Ancient One did something weird and split him in two. I never really understood what that was all about and just went with it as it was such a great story, but it was something very specific that she did to him and likely couldn't have happened otherwise. - On Old Man Loki, keep in mind that we didn't know until the end of Episode 6 of Loki what the real mission of the TVA was. It was HWR preventing any timeline branches that created another Kang. So in regards to old man Loki, I think there never was a nexus event, per se. I think HWR used his tech to signal the TVA whenever he felt there was something he wanted the TVA intervene in. At times it was to prune branches that would create another Kang, but other times it was everything that needed to happen for Sylvie and Loki to reach him. So in the case of old man Loki, perhaps he let him live to a ripe old age, knowing he'd be more willing to sacrifice himself, which as you recall was vital to defeating Alioth and Loki and Sylvie reaching HWR. It's key to remember that HWR wrote the entire script for them to find him and so some of the "nexus" events might have been Kang just using the TVA to pave the way for Loki and Sylvia. - On Steve and branching or not branching when he went back to see Peggy, all I can say is I can't imagine Steve letting so much death occur and just sitting idly by. This funny video perfectly illustrates that point: ua-cam.com/video/hBmj4rs1KrI/v-deo.html. Check it out as it is good for a laugh and is very short. I do hope we continue to learn more about the rules as things move further towards Secret Wars. I enjoy brainstorming ideas, but I also hope we eventually get some answers. But thanks for theorizing along with me. Really appreciate it!
That’s probably the best video you have made! My favorite one tbh. That helped sooo much, cause a lot of my friends always come to me asking “hey, how does the multiverse works?” so you can imagine how useful this video is for me haha! And Sylvie.... what have you done 🤦🏻♂️
Thanks so much! It was alot of fun to make the video and involved hours of brainstorming on the server. And yes, I wonder if Sylvie has any idea what she did. Kang is coming!
This channel is what I expected EaVoss's deep dive channel to be. But that channel has been very basic so far lol. The real deep dive is here and in KindaCulty channel
Yeah, I really like Voss and I do watch all his vids, but I agree, I expected his dives to be abit deeper. There is so much to explore with the multiverse and I had a blast making this video. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your feedback. Thanks so much!
I agree, I'm so stoked for the Multiverse Saga to continue to unfold. Phase 5 and 6 are gonna be amazing! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I'll check out that out. Sounds like it is great! I will say that the best video I've seen on the topic of what happened after returning the stones and then going to see Peggy is this short and very funny look at what would have happened if Steve didn't branch: ua-cam.com/video/hBmj4rs1KrI/v-deo.html. I couldn't agree with it more, which is why I theorize he had to branch at that point.
47:39 Could be a different version of Kang altogether maybe a good version of Kang who uses the TVA to stop incursions instead of just pruning branches because thats closer to what the TVA does in the comics to keep universe from being destroyed
Yes, that's certainly possible. It's hard to say who is going to be the one to fix it all. Somehow Victor Timely will figure in, so he's my guess as the one that might save everyone in the end. But I think the exiled Kang will be the one to create Battleworld.
Yes, it is indeed very complex. I do hope Marvel manages to keep it fun for the common fan who doesn't want to dig into it as deeply. But I'm also glad that there are so many layers to it and that if we want to do a deep dive, the material lends itself to it. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
After watching Quantumania the second time, I feel as if Kang was aware of everything such as He Who Remains and wanted Scott to use the Pym particles on the time engine so he would forge with the time engine and become a true master of time or maybe where he is able to harness Alioth. I also think He Who Remains will turn out to be Iron Lad as he seems to be the most heroic of the Kang’s we’ve seen so far. It would be awesome for Iron Lad to team up with the Avengers and eventually take up the persona of HWR living a lonely life preventing his variants from ever existing.
Yes, I've been wondering about that theory on the exiled Kang "dying". It would explain alot about why Kang was defeated if perhaps he wasn't actually defeated, per se, and it was what he wanted to have happen all along to gain additional power and also to appear to be dead to the Kang council. I really like that. And the HWR = Iron Lad theory is also really cool. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I definitely think that works. I'm down with either that or the idea that variants are out of phase with each other and simply can't meet each other due to that. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
42:48 The Citadel exist beyond the Void. We saw the Void in Loki. We should also outline that theres multiple things that exist outside of space & time. 1. Quantum Realm 2. The Void 3. The place beyond the void where the Citadel sits which is probably still a part of the Void.
Okay this is something I debated with friends for weeks, in Doctor Strange the “multiverse” was a stand in for dimensions. It’s used interchangeably. The Dark Dimension is part of the multiverse. So I always figured there was a SINGULAR universe with multiple dimensions. After Loki what I figured was since HWR death that affected all of time, thus creating alternate timeslines(universes).So in hindsight the use of the word multiverse before still works. It’s a cool idea, and nice we can have debates like this.
Great feedback. Yes, it's important to note that the video is just theories trying to put everything together, so there is definitely much room for debate, as you note. The reason I think Feige's interview when Dr. Strange came out indicates that we did have parallel realities at that point in the MCU is because he said this: "I think when comic book fans hear parallel dimensions or multiple dimensions they think of Earth 616 and Earth 617 and Earth 618. That’s all possible. But what we’re playing with in this world is there are dimensions - that the other dimensions are not just parallel realities, although some of them are, but there are the Dark Dimension where Dormammu inhabits; there are dimensions that are so mind-bending that you can barely perceive them; there are dimensions where a lot of the Ditko images come from; there are dimensions that are just mind trips that the human mind can barely fathom which is why it’s hard to turn them into something to show audiences in November. But we’re playing as much with the notion of the multiverse as much as alien dimensions, for lack of a better term, than parallel realities where there’s Strange that wears Iron Man armor". It's a long quote, but I think the most important piece is when Feige said that the dimensions are not just parallel realties, although some of them are. So he's saying the multiverse at the time of Dr. Strange included parallel realities. Hopefully we can get a more definitive answer to the state of the multiverse prior to He Who Remains death, but if you add in Waldron's quote, it seems like HWR was fine with there being parallel realities, as long as they didn't create a Kang. He said that "If you zoomed in on the timeline, it wouldn’t necessarily look like a straight line. It might look like almost the intertwined strands of a rope fluctuating and spiking here and there. When it becomes a problem for the TVA is when, according to their own rules, when could something branch off in a way that it could actually produce a new timeline that could produce a new version of He Who Remains? That is the practical thing that they’re guarding against." Anyway, all just theories on my part taking into account the quotes they've given us plus the info from the movies/shows. Hopefully we'll learn more as the multiverse saga moves along! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I think Captain America will be revealed to have been a skrull in Secret Invasion throughout the MCU, and the old Steve Rogers is all there ever was at some point.
Okay, that wins an award for being one of the most unique suggestions I've seen yet. Nicely done! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Michael Waldron is a hack that can’t follow his own logic or continuity in his own statements in simple interviews let alone projects he’s solely head writer of, and that’s the guy Feige wanted to do Secret Wars the same individual that resulted in assassinating everyone character arc in MoM/Loki along with having zero idea of what to do in the 2 act of MoM so he just decided to write the Illuminati dialogue to “fill time for fun because I didn’t know how to connect to a third act” as he himself stated 🙄
@@TipsyLoveLetter Yeah, I'm abit concerned about the reliance on Waldron and Loveless for the movies. Loki was amazing, but those two have seemed to struggle with MoM and QM. I hope there is perhaps a team working on the scripts going forward, as Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars are too important to let them become a tangled mess of inconsistency. Fingers crossed that they get this fixed!
@@AbitofEverything4U unfortunately after rewatching Loki (without rose tinted glasses) it’s nowhere near as good as first believed and full of its own narrative failures & then there’s MoM disappointment (and I’m someone who very much liked both projects for entertainment) but as a story they’re admittedly some of the worst in the entire franchise, I now have zero faith in those writers to be able to pull together a coherent tight narrative that could actually service the lead characters let alone everyone else that’ll be involved in them and the overall story it’s presenting, now after the disaster that is Antman3 I just can’t even begin to get behind Rick & Morty writers trying to present not just one but two Avengers films successful, they clearly love a sandbox of doing whatever the hell a plot for a 20 minute episodes that requires no continuity or consequences but nobody actually stops for a moment and says “Rick & Morty is top quality content” 😔
@@TipsyLoveLetter Yeah, I definitely share your very valid concern. I recently re-watched Loki and while I still enjoyed it, I agree, it left an awful lot of questions to be answered. I guess we find out how things go with Loki S2. Hopefully it starts to reel the story in. Otherwise, we are in for a very difficult ride.
4:13 It's funny that Kevin mentioned Dr. Strange in Iron Man armor because there was originally concept art for Avengers Infinity War that had Strange use the Iron Man armor, and Tony use the Cloak. There was even pictures of that scene being filmed, which is where my profile pic comes from.
Yes! Great point! I wondered if that was Feige alluding to something they had in mind, but they had to scrap. I thought his comment was pretty specific in that regard. Interesting stuff! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Great video, is good to have the summary of everything multiverse related Honestly something I expected from this phases was that they will explain the difference between realm, universe, timeline and dimensions, I don't think I have an answer yet. Another question was are dimensiona part of a universe or the other way around, but SHe Hulk I guess gave an answer cause Donny Blaze was able to use the sorcerers ring to access a dimension and if dimension contains universes then the plot of Dr Strange MOM wouldn't make much sense cause America was the only one to jump through universes "What is an Absolute Point in Time?" Honestly one of the reasons that episode of What If wasn't my absolute favorite is because of the absolute point in time, it goes against the branching rule, it doesn't make sense that Strange couldn't create a branch were Christine is alive, the excuse they gave was that he wouldn't defeat Dormamu if he didn't have the motivation but why does that prevent the branch? Dormamu winning in a universe destroy all the other ones?, couldn't this version of Strange defeat Dormamu in the branched timeline? Honestly I like to think that the problem in the episode is that Steven doesn't want to create a new timeline/branch, he wants to overwrite the one he is in with the power of the time stone, going against the rules of the multiverse, and that's why the universe tries to correct itself killing Christine. But I don't think that's why they suggested.
Great feedback! Yes, we really do need them to explain the difference between realms, universes, timelines and dimensions. Maybe the timeline book will do it? And I agree, the absolute point in time is abit confusing. You might have landed on it, however. It could be that Strange didn't want to create a branch and wanted to use the timestone, but it wouldn't let him rewind time to the point before her death. It makes alot more sense that way. Excellent commentary as always!
Great video as always, and one of my favourites! Everything was spot on, but i still don't think there is only 1 quantum realm, because to me it just makes so much sense if there are multiple because it allows for kang's time travel(/banishment) to be branching instead of rewriting, which fits with Endgame
Thanks again for all your help with the vid! In your comment, I think you meant to say "but i still *don't* think there is only 1 quantum realm", and I agree, that is the thing I am most confused about. I guess that since the Kang Council was outside of time and shot Kang into a realm that is outside of time, very odd things happen. It all hurts my head abit, but it will be interesting to see if they canonize how many QR's exist in one of the shows or movies or maybe in the timeline book. We really do need to know more about what the writers are thinking. Thanks again for being such a great resource for ideas!
@@AbitofEverything4U oh whoops yeah i meant multiple quantum realms I really hope that the timeline book will give us answers! In the books description it says it will tell us about the formation of the multiverse, so surely that means some concrete multiverse and time travel rules. I think in the films and tv shows they will deliberately keep it vague, so that everyone who was different opinions can believe that they are correct, but if you want a concrete answer, you can dive deeper and look at the book
Yeah, that may well be what happens...I just hope we get an answer at some point. And again, I really appreciate our discussion, as I had forgotten about the What If episode. It really was important to mention that in the vid for completeness. Thanks so much!
Yes, I think I should a video on realms and dimensions, which would include Valhalla, the Ancestral Plane, etc. Great suggestion! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Baron Mordo himself said that messing with time can result in time loops (Ms. Marvel, Agents of SHIELD), branching timelines (Endgame) or rewriting the timeline (Runaways, Wong’s death in the Doctor Strange climax). All three of these sets of consequences can impact the Multiverse in wild ways.
Well said! Yes it appears Mordo was abit of prophet regarding his warnings. And the Multiverse Saga has only begun to unfold! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I feel like Mordo found out the hard way. I never considered him to be evil. He was right about everything he warned would happen. Wong also warned Strange, and the Ancient One warned Bruce. It seems that magical beings exert a different force on the timeline. It’s been magic wielders that are both the most concerned and the most dangerous to time and the fabric of reality itself. The two Loki’s are magic wielders that are exerting their will or intent upon the time line. Loki and Sylvie, decided they would survive and then clasped hands, uniting their will into one and due to their powers combining, the spike goes wild because they are introducing chaos magic or mathematics into the system, thus driving the end of that timeline and speeding up the entropy to chaos or enthalpy, which is the decay rate or death of the system. Anytime they combine their will, the ramp up the chaotic energy and create an equal force, which is Kang and his variants. They’re Order and Loki’s are Chaos. You need both for equilibrium. But what happens when Chaos drives order and Order drives chaos? Loki is now exerting Order, along with Renslayer, while Timely and Sylvie are now representing Chaos. I figure Victor will spagettify into the timeline and cause 616 Kang to rise. HWR is Timely and Kang. He’s just completing his loop. It’s all him, and always has been.
This is how I see it bro. 1. Multiverse exists, aka countless universes. Each universe has it's own cosmic beings (celestials, eternity, etc), regular beings, planets, and small dimensions(Dark, Afterlifes, Ta-Lo, etc.). Realms also exist but they function differently, they are systems that connect stuff, like the Nine realms existing WITHIN a universe which connects Jotunheim(planet) to Asgard(dimension). The Quantum Realm is simply a massive one that connects universes, so theres only one. However, realms are like dimensions in that time and space works differently, but they are not technically OUTSIDE of the multiverse. Dont think of the Quantum realm as a storage unit containing universes or running parallel with them, think of it as a tunnel system running in between them. 2. Kangs become so smart they beat every being in the Multiverse and discover each other. Prime Kang (exiled one) starts the war to avoid incursions and discovers alioth but he is booted to the Quantum Realm. HWR wins the war by eliminating the other Kangs and universes with Alioth, he destroys the Multiverse. He leaves only one universe, molded to fit the rules of a timeline (In Loki we see universes were stacked onto each other, very different from the events after Loki where universes originate from timelines.) 3. That sole universe is called the "Sacred Timeline" by HWR. He then forms the TVA, fabricates the story of Time Keepers, and enjoys peace in the universe. He does this from OUTSIDE of the universe in the citadel. Since the universe functions like a huge timeline now, u gotta clip small timelines to avoid the creation of another Multiverse. Variant beings are sent to the Void, another place OUTSIDE of the universe where Alioth eats everything. So the void and citadel are the only things outside of the universe/multiverse, not the quantum realm. 4. The events of the MCU take place, from Iron Man to Loki. Endgame simply is a case of the Avengers traveling back in time but being allowed to by HWR, and since HWR is alive theres only one universe so the "variants" of our characters are not variants they just the same character in another point in time in the same 616 universe. However, the reason beings like Sylvie can exist when there is only ONE universe, is because HWR allows certain timelines to exist until they actually become a problem. It's just that HWR never allows the timeline to form another universe so Sylvie is technically from the 616 just like main Loki. Then Loki show happens, HWR dies, and those timelines are allowed to expand until they create the second multiverse. A kang variant also takes control of the TVA (idk why though as the TVA purpose has ceased to exist but wtv). This leads to NWH and MoM, with our heroes going to different universes or characters from other universes accessing the main 616, which is no longer the only universe but still is the main one( hence why we follow it for non-multiversal movies like Shang Chi.) Problems like incursions are relevant now because there is more than one universe, which is why In Endgame there is no worries with that since they traveled within ONE universe, just different timelines. 5. Ant Man 3 happens, and Prime Kang tries to get revenge (btw he was never eliminated by HWR he was always in the Quantum realm portion inside the 616.) Kang "dies", making the resurgent Dynasty of Kangs (who also can be OUTSIDE of the multiverse) to worry about other beings becoming as powerful as them (the avengers). This leads to Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars.) Watch u guys think? Also What If Series is simply stuff about other universes, so not canon to the MCU but it is to the multiverse. So it does count ig but I mean it's not important and also it's for sure in the second multiverse after HWR death, because The Watcher says time isnt linear and decisions can make universes, all qualities of the Kang modified reality that came after the original multiverse.
Great summary. That goes along with most of what I said in the video, so we are definitely on the same page for the most part. I would suggest just a few small changes to what you said, however: 1. The multiverse did exist in Dr. Strange 1 as the Ancient One talks about it. Also, Kevin Feige's quote confirms that it did exist at that point. 2. The reason the multiverse existed while He Who Remains was alive is explained in Michael Waldron's quote where he said that the sacred timeline was actually several timelines/universes interwoven like a rope and the only time the TVA has to address a Nexus event is when that event would ultimately result in a new Kang. 3. When the Avengers went back in time, they created a branched timeline/universe because as the Hulk explained, you can't change the past and have it alter your future. If you go back in time, you create a new past which is now your future. He said it in a complicated fashion, but he was indeed describing that they created a branch. 4. The reason the branches/timelines/universes created during the time heist were okay and the TVA let them happen is they didn't result in a new Kang being created. The new branches became part of the interwoven universes that make up the sacred timeline. Otherwise, I think everything you said was spot on. Of course it's all just theory at this point, but that's my thoughts on it. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U I definitely think the idea of a multiverse existing during the events of the sacred timeline is a complicated concept. I'm not sure if it's a case of terminology being used interchangeably because a realm is not a dimension or a universe, and its also not a multiverse. But they always talk about it as the same thing. My guess is that they simply didnt have everything fleshed out at that point (First Dr Strange), and the word multiverse could've been what they meant for countless dimensions and realms. So for me I think that the Sacred Timeline is composed of interwoven timelines like you said, because if not then how would Sylvie and the other Lokis exist yk, but I dont think that those timelines are "universes". Another case of interchangeably using terminology is at the end of MoM, where Clea says there are incursions happening. However, she opens a portal to the Dark Dimension, which is not a universe. Sooooo how can it be an incursion there if its not a universe (unless there going there for another reason). Definitely appreciate your feedback by the way.
Yes, I think the biggest issue is the usage of different terms to mean seeing the same thing. Dimension, realm, universe, multiverse, timeline...lions and tigers and bears, oh my! Perhaps the upcoming timeline book will go into a firm definition of each. I do think that a timeline and a universe are the same, however, because if a timeline branches, it seems that in that new timeline the entire universe must exist. In the time heist, for instance we see them going to different points throughout the universe. So I think a universe is created either by a nexus point from a key decision that splits into a new universe or by time travel that creates a branch which is effectively an entire new universe. But I agree, it's all abit confusing and we just have to try to guess at things for now. Great conversation. Love the dialogue with fellow MCU fans!
Man thanks so much for this video. At first, after Quantumania, I was a little confused. And then, the more that I thought about it, the more confusing it got. This video for me explains it all. It all makes sense, the only thing that I think hasn’t been confirmed is what happened to the three Kangs after the first multiversal war. That is quite confusing and my main source of confusion. Other than that though, it has all been explained. Again, this was a fantastic video.
Yes, I agree, my biggest open question is what happened to the three Kangs. I honestly suspect they were trapped somewhere, but I could be wrong. Otherwise, I think I understand it all alot more clearly now. It really helped me to put this video together as my mind thinks alot better when it is all laid out like this. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I think that I possibility would be that the Kangs were stuck at the end of time in a hope for Alioth to take to them out. However, they survived somehow (maybe because they knew more about Alioth than the other Kangs and knew to hide with the Lokis?) and were hiding and came back, assembling the Kang council of Kangs all over the universes and taking over the TVA to allow for more and more Kangs. This is just a theory and has some gaps like how they survived Alioth but I like this theory and might be sticking to it for a while until proven wrong.
I hope it is explored in Loki Season 2 - maybe a part about the three Kangs back story as they are now possibly the rulers of the TVA so I think that they deserve a backstory
37:56 I like that theory that Loki Episode 6 & the Quantumania Post Credit Scene are happening simultaneously. However, I think it creates a plothole. Without He Who Remains dying, Quantum Kang doesn’t get imprisoned in the Quantum Realm
I'm theorizing he was exiled the first time there was a multiversal war and hasn't re-appeared when the big three Kang's returned as he was still in the QR from the first time.
@@AbitofEverything4U depends because if everything happens throughout time & the other Kangs were aware Quantum Kang was in the Quantum Realm I would assume He Who Remains would as well
Agreed, I think during the first war the three Kangs exiled him, then HWR did something to them (trapped them?), HWR is then killed, and three Kangs take over the citidel once again.
I do think that the fox movies and the Sony films takes place after he who remains dies due to the fact that he who remains explain about the first multiversal war. Which who knows what that first war even is.
Could be. I personally like the idea of the Sony movies happening prior to his death which would mean they were happening simultaneously with the MCU. But there's no way to know for sure. So you could be right in your theory. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Yes, I think the other Kangs were trapped somewhere. That seems to make the most sense. And oddly, they blame the Kang they exiled, when it was HWR that got the best of them in the end.
@@AbitofEverything4U well He Who Remains didn’t try to kill them, Quantum Kang did so I think the beef levels are different lol. HWR was like “just leave me alone”, QK was out for blood
Completely agree! I think it was very intentional that HWR switched from "another variant" to "I" during the middle of his speech. As a narcissist, he would never credit anyone else with something he did, so we do indeed have a mystery on our hands. Personally, I think it's the exiled Kang, but I could be wrong. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@jaedynstjuste1708 I think the Kang in Quantumania is the one that discovered Alioth, meaning he wasn't killed by HWR but was exiled by the Kang council and then I think that HWR somehow captured and locked the main Kangs from the council away. They then were freed when he died. But that's just my theory for now. Lots to uncover!
The first Multiverseal War that He Who Remains talked about in Loki Season 1 happened like this: the events of Avengers Endgame happen, Loki escapes, Loki Season 1 happens, Sylvie kills He Who Remains, Kang the Conquer is exiled to the Quantum Realm, What If..? Season 1 happens, Loki Season 2 happens, Spider-Man No Way Home happens, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness happens, Avengers the Kang Dynasty happens, Avengers Secret War happens, He Who Remains uses the power of Alioth to win the Multiverseal War creates the TVA and waits for Loki and Sylvie to find him again!!!
Just watching this again. In hind sight, you could argue that vulture didn’t go to morbius’ universe due to NWH, but could actually be there because of ATSV
Agreed...I really like that explanation and I kinda wonder if they were hinting at that by that fact that it was yet another Vulture variant that appeared in ATSV. Makes a ton of sense that way.
25:55 let’s add another Theory as to the cause of Incursions. That Kang variants meddling with time is the cause of Incursion, said by Exiled Kang. Maybe in their narcissistic minds, they (Kang and his Variants) believes they are the problems and solution to everything that’s going on with the death of the Multiverse. Unbeknownst to everyone, I still think there will be just ONE PERSON that’s pulling all the strings and I DO NOT think it’s Kang or any of his variants. (THIS PERON) has to be the one. Unless MCU want to save (HIM) for the next Saga.
The Three Kang Variants look corny on purpose!! Because Kang the Conquer, The Broken Statue, The Exiled One back from the Quantum Realm is going to mess their stuff up!!
Yeah, that exiled Kang is definitely gonna return and when he does, he's gonna be ticked. Not a good time to be any of those three Kangs! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Did You Know that the Sitcom How I Met Your Mother is part of the MCU? In an episode of HIMYM they show the theatre where Mary Jane of Tobey Maguire's Spiderman performs, meaning they live in Tobey's New York. ua-cam.com/video/7f-RiWS5fJ4/v-deo.html Now that Tobey's universe entered the MCU in No Way Home, so did HIMYM.
Niiiiiiice! I love HIMYM. However, that makes things abit awkward for Colbie Smulders, eh? Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I like the multiverse idea so far. No Way Home was awesome on how it handled the multiverse, Spiderverse, despite it not being an MCU film handled it perfectly. I do think it's a little too complicated for normies like my mom. A little too sci-fi, too nerdy, (we love it cause we're nerds 🤣) it's a fun idea, and hopefully, it expands and it's amazing. I hope DP 3 is the catalyst and the breaking point. I do wish though that different actors played the roles instead of just having a different colored strange, played by Benedict. I was kinda hope Bruce Campbell played 838 strange. I just dont like that some characters like the Spider-Men look different, but somehow, Stange and Loki look the same or how Peggy and Capt Marvel are the same character and actor just with powers. That's why I hope the first Fox Fantastic Four team is in Secret Wars I think it would be hilarious having all the Avengers be so confused as to why Cap is named Johhny and is on fire. Thats just my opinion
Yes, I think you are right that casual fans are going to be confused by the multiverse. I hope it doesn't turn folks away, but it could. But I do like your ideas for alternate castings of the characters, such as Dr. Strange. Can't wait to see what happens during Secret Wars. It's gonna be crazy! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
if we're going with there only being one quantum realm then i think that there are/is a part of the quantum realm that has the zombie virus which is where the what if janet was but the quantum realm as a whole doesn't have the virus
Yes, the What If episode is the tricky piece to everything. I do wonder if perhaps the Quantum Realm is such that variants can't run into each other somehow. It is outside of time and space, so maybe variants are 'out of phase' with each other somehow. But regardless, I do agree that they need to explain this at some point. Great feedback!
@@AbitofEverything4U i don't think it's that they can't run into other versions of themself but rather it's just super unlikely due to the size i mean if you dropped two people in random places on mars and they started walking around (and nothing else) even with all the time in the world the odds of those two people ever meeting is super low and mars is no where near as big as the quantum realm
Spidey, Dr. Strange and Wanda - are crucial to beating Kang. I can’t wait for Wanda’s redemption arch just like Loki. Holy smokes - a team of - Spidey, Loki, Strange, Wanda, Deadpool, Wolvie and Moon Knight - would be epic. The banter would be hilarious, yet serious at same time. I could easily see Strange and Parker looking at each other like - wtf is wrong with these Deadpool and Moon Knight dudes all the while Wanda apologizing to Strange.
That's a fantastic idea for a team-up. The reason Infinity War was so good was seeing lots of different characters teaming up for the first time. Should be some amazing dynamics between them everyone in The Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars. So many great stories ahead in the multiversal saga! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Adding to cap’s situation. Not only did he tell Sitwell “hail hydra”, he also told that reality’s cap that Bucky was alive.. now, add in that he zapped cap with Loki’s brain scrambling glow stick.. Redford character would no longer be exposed, nor would shield collapse as it did in the AOS series and Winter soldier.. The Secret Empire timeline was created from those events. What we have watched since 2008 was a time loop. That loop was broken in endgame. Tony clearly stated that “when you mess with time, it tends to mess back”.. Mordo stated to strange when he did the same thst “The bill comes due”.. Everything has been laid right in front of our eyes.. But few have the understanding to see it.. Peggy said in a fit of dementia to steve “you came back for me”.. she was talking above old steve.. The father of her children.. Not our steve. The TVA has been there all along.. And so has Kang.. He (Allowed) Thanos to happen.. And all things that led to Tony figuring out time travel for him to use centuries later.. Kang is playing infinity level dimensional chess.. The audience keeps playing go fish😂
Wow...Great theories! I love them all. One thing is certain, no matter how much we think we know, Marvel is several steps ahead and we are just trying to catch up. Your ideas are fascinating. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
24:56 I don’t think thats what Feige meant It goes back to my “Branches allow travel between universes” theory Tobey & Andrew universes always existed. The spell went wrong & thus it allowed a pathway for people to be brought to the 616 He Who Remains kept that from happening I think its a little self-centered to say “it creates timelines” because it doesn’t make sense scientifically, metaphysically, or theologically. Existence isn’t predicated on one random universe and I doubt the 616 is a prime universe either. It shares the same factors & weight as 838, Raimi, Webb, etc universes. Killing He Who Remains opened a gate. It “freed the multiverse” as Sylvie states not create it.
I guess it can be interpreted many ways, but I think HWR's death meant that the boundaries between the timelines was weakened due to so many timelines being created based on new nexus events that weren't clipped by the TVA. But just my take on it. I could be wrong.
I would love if MCU's incursions would stay a mystery, like in Everything Dies & Time Runs Out comics in order to have an Iluminatti roster desperate to figure it out and being forced to the moral descent that leads them into sacrificing other Earths. Im hoping Marvel doesn't explain to us what is going on very early on. And that is why Im not very mucho into 838's Reed and Kang's explanation on Incursions.
Interesting idea. Yes, I can see the advantage of not telling us alot about incursions and making us wait. But I do also see the advantage of giving us some hints so eagle-eyed viewers might spot some of the incursions along the way. Either way, I'm really excited about the lead-up to Secret Wars. Gonna be amazing! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
43:07 I don’t He Who Remains did anything to the other Kangs. He just closed off his timeline from being accessed by pruning all branches & shaping a sacred timeline that is unaccessible to anyone who can travel the multiverse. So this includes other Kangs, America Chavez, Dreamwalkers, & sorcerers.
Interesting theory...but I if that's the case, I wonder where the big three ended up? I mean they were in the citadel at the end of time with HWR at one point (thus the statues) so how did Kang boot them from there? I think that's a big mystery yet to be solved.
What if the main MCU timeline is the branch that Cap travelled back to to live with Peggy? Or that Cap travelling back to live with Peggy is a closed loop, as he doesn't do anything to majorly effect the timeline. Sure it would still be a slow burn incursion risk, but it would also be the only incursion risk at that time. They don't have kids (that we know of), Peggy continues to live life normally with Cap being a 'stay at home husband', he never interferes with any happenings and attends her funeral in Civil War. The only major thing i can think of that would somewhat disprove this theory is the way old Peggy reacts to seeing him whilst in the hospital, surely the dementia would hamper her acting ability. Though that could have been her genuine reaction to him first coming back when going to live with her. It doesn't help that the writers and directors of Endgame can't agree on whether he went back to a branch or not.
I agree...the directors and writers disagreeing about Cap makes it hard to know what really happened. I will say that the idea of a closed loop seems hard to process, as I can't imagine Cap sitting by while all the tragedies of the world happen. This video is humorous in nature, but it does show how hard it would be: ua-cam.com/video/hBmj4rs1KrI/v-deo.html. Anyway, I do hope Marvel gives us a firm answer at some point. Thx for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!
Love your videos and your style. But sad to say after the tragedy that was Antman and the wasp quantumania I think I’m finally ready to put and end to the marvel saga for myself. I find hardly any enjoyment out of these films anymore, little to no enjoyment out of the D+ shows. The MCU was dying, Antman has killed it. I’ll be keeping a lookout on your DC videos, keep up the good work.
Yeah, I can understand your frustration. QM did not live up to what I expected from it. I don't think it was as bad as the critics are saying, but it suffered from some of the issues that have affected the MCU under Chapek as CEO, which is a rush to get a movie out before the story (and VFX) are ready. I truly do think things will improve now that Iger has returned, and a great example of why I have hope is that Marvel has hit the breaks on several things (Echo, The Marvels, Blade, Agatha) to be sure that we don't have another Ant-Man. So perhaps give GotG Vol 3 a shot. I agree, if that's a stinker then the MCU is in real trouble. And yeah, looking forward to covering DC as I think Gunn has some great ideas and we should be in for an awesome ride!
This was the first video in a long time. I watched from start to finish, 54 minutes straight. This is my first time to your channel. I agree with the way you presented all the information. I’ve had the same thought as this video is had for a while now. A part of me thinks that “he who remains” and “Kang the conqueror”, are one in the same person. He said something during the series Loki that said “come on now, you have to go through the experience to be changed”. I wonder if he wasn’t talking to Loki and Sylvie, but was he talking about himself. Maybe when he got sucked into that time Vortx in Ant-Man 3 it changed his perspective about winning the war. I’d be willing to go so far to say the first Multiverse of war Kang had the help of the Multi-verseall Avengers, along with America Chavez and The Watcher. We will have to wait and see. As these movies progress, I would like to see you add on to this video. Kind a like an up-to-date video of the Multiverse War.
Wow, now that's a great theory that exiled Kang is HWR, and I love that you based it on that "you have to go thru the experience to be changed" line. Very interesting! And yes, I like the idea of updating the video as time goes on. Should be alot of fun to see how things slowly unfold for the multiverse saga! Thanks so much for watching the vid (all 54 minutes of it!) and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
If there’s only one quantum realm in does that mean it’s also like connected to to the multiverse and if so does the physics go away from the person going in or stays
Oh, now that's a good question. So, I think you are asking what happens if someone from the paint universe entered the quantum realm, would they be paint or live action. Wow, not sure how that would work, but it sorta feels like the person would be the same reality they were outside the QR. So a paint person would be in a paint reality in the QR. But man, that hurts my brain abit. What great question!
10:37 Thanos army being snapped out of existence, created a branch because there was no Thanos anymore to go after the stones No Gamora in that 2014 timeline affects the Guardians of the Galaxy No 2014 Nebula either The result of that is infinite Mjolnir disappearing for that Thor probably still would be a branch if it didn’t get pruned. So Thor lost to the Dark Elves or he awakened earlier in the timeline.
Dr Stranges Incursion HAS to be Vulture popping over into the Sony Universe? Or the 818 universe is a timeline of the Fox Xmen universe and Wanda murdering everyone lead to it?
That would be so awesome if that was the incursion. Dr. Strange retrieving the Vulture would make my year! But I also agree that it could have something to do with the 838 universe. I'm sure we'll learn more soon! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Yes, I am abit concerned that the multiversal saga will start to confuse the average movie-goer. That said, I suspect most fans just accept what they saw and move on. It's the more avid fans like us that want to dive deeper. Still, your concern is valid and Marvel needs to be sure things don't get too complicated or they will lose alot of people (and dollars) in the process. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
You know how in the post-credits scene of Ant-Man and the Wasp, Janet was cool with Scott going into the Quantum Realm but in Quantumania, she's hella terrified to go back in there because of Kang? I feel like the only explanation for that is that He Who Remains' death caused the main MCU timeline to change making it so that Janet met Kang in the Quantum Realm even though that wasn't the case in Ant-Man and the Wasp.
Yes, I've always wondered about that as well. It's possible that HWR's death did in did indeed cause the main MCU timeline to change, but theoretically all it did was allow branches to form off of the MCU timeline which were no longer being clipped by the TVA. It shouldn't have been able to change the past for the existing MCU timeline. So I'm definitely open to that idea, but I also have to wonder if perhaps Janet was okay with Scott going in since it was supposed to be very brief. She also seemed somewhat scared about the trip as she said "Also, make sure you stay out of the tardigrade fields. They're cute, but they'll eat you. And don't get sucked into a time vortex. We won't be able to save you." So I suspect she was okay only because it was supposed to be for like 30 seconds. Still, you your point is very valid and I do hope they address it. Loki S2 may help provide some answers as to what happened the exact moment HWR died. I'm really interested to see that. Anyway, excellent feedback. Thanks so much for sharing your theories!
I think at the point where kang was “killed” he was shrunk down to the TVA (which I believe is beyond the quantum realm) and was able to take control of a vacant TVA which explains the statue so in S2 of Loki he’s just collecting info on kang and his variants
Very interesting theory! I could imagine that being what happened to Kang. I do hope we learn alot more when Loki S2 comes out. Should be an amazing series and I can't wait for it to hit Disney+ later this year! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I think the reason that Loveness is saying there is only one QR is that it is being used to transport between universes. So having several QRs seems like it wouldn't let you jump between universes. But hopefully they will explain it more fully down the road. I agree, it is confusing either way you go. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Why does the 2012 branch need to go away? If it doesn't make a kang, TVA won't prune it, so there can just be a weird world where winter soldier is really weird because people know things they shouldn't.
Good point! As long as it doesn't create a Kang, no need to prune it. I suspect you could very well be right about that! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Do you think it is at all possible that RiRi Williams aka “Iron heart” is a variant of kang aka iron lad?? Maybe she is going under a different Alias just like Mary Jane did in Spider-Man and we don’t find out her real name till way later…. Could be a theory. She’s already been to wakanda and kinda explains why she is such a tech wiz naturally
That's a very interesting theory! I do think that Iron Lad is going to be popping up soon and I hadn't considered RiRi, but that's a really cool thought. I hope we see Iron Lad soon, as his/her appearance is highly anticipated! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
The thing with end game is how aware we’re they of all this like how would hulk know that there’s branched timelines I don’t think he would know. I don’t think any of them would know about sacred timelines or branched timelines.
Great point! I agree, Hulk didn't know about the sacred timeline, as only the TVA knew about that concept. And I also suspect the Hulk didn't totally understand branching, although he did discuss it abit with the Ancient One in that scene. What Hulk was sure of was that quantum physics would not allow someone to go back in time and alter the present. So he basically knew enough to know they were safe from messing up the timestream by going into the past. Hope that helps. That's how I understand it at least. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
So somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the assumption that the Avengers going back in time in Endgame didn't create any branches off of the main/sacred timeline because "The Time Keepers" who ended up being The One Who Remains/Kang had written the timeline to happen exactly the way it did until his death from Sylvie. I can't remember if it was Mobius but I know someone said that the Avengers going back didn't get pruned because they were supposed to do that on the timeline and that Loki was getting pruned because he was never supposed to escape, but then we find out Kang wrote the timeline so that Loki did escape so did loki escaping actually create a branch if that's what was supposed to happen in the end?
Great question! So my theory is that HWR didn't tell the TVA all the facts. We see this in the fact that the Time Keepers were a total lie, for instance. So HWR didn't have the monitors register a nexus even during the time heist, which made Ravonna believe that the time heist was supposed to happen and thus the TVA wouldn't prune the branches and Steve could return the stones. However, HWR did have the monitors register Loki as a Nexus event that wasn't supposed to happen, as he wanted Loki brought to the TVA so that Loki would eventually find HWR. HWR paved the way for all of Loki's steps with the intent that Loki (and Sylvie) find him. That's my theory at least. So I do believe the time heist created branches, but they were not branches that resulted in a new Kang being created, so HWR didn't need them to be pruned. Hope that makes sense. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Lmao kind of annoying how, throughout our brief adventures in the multiverse so far, we’ve encountered more characters that we don’t know yet than variants of characters we already know. I’d much rather see cool variants of pre-existing characters than having Marvel tease us with Mr Fantastic, Professor X, and Black Bolt cameos despite the fact that they’re gonna be in the mainstream MCU within a few years
Good point! So far most of the variants are of newer characters. But I do suspect your wish will come true and we'll be getting more variants of our current characters At least we did get some Dr. Strange variants as well as Wanda variants and a Mordo and Christine Palmer variant. But yes, we need lots more variants of our main characters. Will be great to see that in future stories! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
But if the Multiverse and Time Travel are the same thing and some events are unchangable, how can the Doctor Strange episode of What If even happen? Because obviously in the 616 Universe the event never happened?
Good question. I don't believe that absolute points in time are the same across all universes. They are just a point in time for a given universe that can't be reversed. Since Christine's death in Dr. Strange's What If universe was the reason he became the Master of Mystic Arts, it means he couldn't reverse that point in time in his universe. Let me know if that make sense. Sorry I didn't mention that point in the video. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
45:32 I think they pruned that entire branch in 2012. Loki still got away in that timeline. It just doesn’t make sense they were the cause of why he got away and it wouldn’t matter because what they did was done. It would also make sense because if the TVA already knew the time heist was gonna happen, they would just automatically prune any branches to keep them from happening & the Avengers complete the mission.
Well, remember in Loki that Ravonna said the time heist was supposed to happen. I suspect that means HWR wanted it to happen and thus he made sure those branches didn't register as a Nexus event. However, he made sure Loki's branch did register as a Nexus so that the TVA would bring Loki in and thus lead to the choice Loki and Sylvie had in the final episode. HWR decided what was and wasn't a nexus event and the TVA just did whatever the computers told them to do.
26:56 I wonder if Sony/Marvel will use the incursion fact for Spider Man because a symbiote was left behind and I would say that’s pretty big evidence of another universe since as far as we know Symbiotes don’t exist in the MCU universe
Yeah, I think the symbiote may well cause an incursion. Based on what Reed said, that's exactly what cause incursions to occur. Guess we'll have to wait and see! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
With Ms.Marvel logic, is x-men days of future past a closed loop. Remember the x-men timeline is in the same multiverse as the mcu and raimi/Webb universes.
Yeah, they really do need to explain the X-men time travel. I personally think it could work with branching logic (even if the writers didn't explain it that way) and I made a video on it here: ua-cam.com/video/voYZDAKyQVY/v-deo.html. The closed loop scenario is an interesting possibility, but I think the difference is that the only reason Kamala could go back in time is she was always there to being with, while DoFP implied history worked one way (as seen in Wolverine: Origins, the X-men trilogy, The Wolverine, etc) and then was re-written with a new history (i.e. the path that didn't include those stories). So it isn't a closed loop per se. I do hope that Deadpool 3 attempts to clear it all up. The X-verse timeline is just a hot mess in general. Great movies, but messy timeline. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I'm all for that explanation. Sony definitely made things very confusing with those Morbius post-credit scenes. I hope Sony just pretends like those scenes never happened, tbh. Ugh! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Maybe the robot looking Kang could be Iron Lad? Obviously has a different origin than the comics but that's the first thing thar popped into my head when I saw that Kang variant
Yeah, I'm really anxious to see what they do with Iron Lad. I have a gut feeling we will see him pop up in present day in the MCU, but that's just a guess. I heard a recent theory that the reason the one Kang is robot looking is he was badly injured in the previous multiversal war, and blames the exiled Kang for it. If that's the case, it will be very interesting to see them meet up once again. But your theory about the robot Kang being Iron Lad is also a possibility, so I can't wait to see where things go next! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Thanks so much for the positive feedback. Had alot of fun making that video. I'll make addendums as the multiverse saga continues. Appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your thoughts!
I still have some to watch of this video and I'm going to do it right after I comment. But you just said that you read all the comments and I hope that's true because everything that you're saying makes perfect sense. I'm loving it and I agree with you fully on the three statues and the fourth broken one as well, it making sense but.... I think what Kevin feige and team are planning on doing is that in the first multi-versal war Kang the conqueror either didn't get stuck in the quantum realm, like he never got banished, or he had escaped it. So he is destroying everything. Keeps destroying universe after universe, Kang after Kang, and somewhere along the line he finds Alioth and he who remains pulls a fast one and uses Alioth to kill Kang the conquer. From there he finishes off what king the conqueror started, creates the sacred timeline. After he who remains is killed this time, I think they are going to make it where something different happened, they will reveal a nexus event that changed the destiny of king the conqueror. Most likely he will become kang prime or the beyonder now once he escapes whatever dimension he is in within the multiversal core. But the Nexus event is important because that's why the TVA has a different statue, a different leader.
Excellent feedback! Yes, you raise a great point that the Nexus event is perhaps the key to everything. I suspect that Loki will end up helping the heroes and with all his experiences from his show, he can certainly explain the nexus concept and may be vital to leading the team to find the origin of Kang and thus how to prevent it from happening. Love those ideas! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Yeah, the Loki series was absolutely bonkers. I can't wait for S2. It can't come soon enough! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Nahhh cause like, why do I feel like I’m watching a b class power point my online teacher do in her online class instead of watching an actual marvel review how multiverse works! This ain’t school💀
Yeah, my apologies as I do realize that it can feel like school. That said, there is so much cool info to share about the multiverse that I didn't want to fill it with alot of video clips just for the sake of adding visual stimulus, per se. But I completely understand if this type of presentation isn't your thing. I've gotten really good feedback overall, so if you ever do decide to check out the vid, I promise you'll find it interesting. Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I truly appreciate it!
If you'd like to join the discord server, here is a link: discord.gg/r7Y3FyNBk4. There are over 300 members so far. Love to have you be part of the conversation!
This is why DC is better because they know the difference between alternate timeline and alternate universe.
Great video.
Yeah, I agree, Marvel needs to get their definitions down before we get too much farther into the multiverse saga. Interchanging terms is really confusing. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I believe Scott is in a different universe and the best example when he ordered the cake and bit into it, it was sour, not sweet 🎂 🤔
@@delmarfrazier2727 Yep, that sure was suspicious!
Man, I have to tell ya you put out one hell of a video. It’s the first video I’ve watched in a long time from start to finish. That was almost an hour long. It was very detailed very intriguing and very thought out. Kudos to you and everyone that helped you. One suggestion would be as we get more movies in the MCU that you could go back and amend this video and keep this in up-to-date video about the Multiverse.
As Doctor Strange said in NWH, the multiverse is a concept about which we know frighteningly little. He was right... phase 5 and 6 will blow our minds
Well said! It's gonna be a wild ride all the way up to Secret Wars. Should be a fun trip from beginning to end! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
Sadly, the writers seem to also know very little 😂 I wish they’d stay consistent with their own logic
@@prodbyluis7693 Agreed...I hope they all compare notes as we go deeper into Phase 5!
And we know frighteningly little because writers keep making things up as we go along 😂
@@profbfc LOL! Well, they better watch this video then, eh? 🤣
15:10 I honestly think the TVA took care of it & just pruned the branches the Avengers created in the Time Heist. Because we see the Infinity Stones used as paper weights. The time heist probably happened a lot as well throughout the timeline.
Yep, good theory!
Bro you are easily the most dedicated MCU fan out there. Mad props dude. Marvel needs to hire you. Though I guess there’s a variant of you who runs the MCU somewhere in the multiverse lmao
LOL! Yes, I suspect my variant has the job with Marvel that I would love. Oh well, hopefully he watches the videos. 🤣
Thanks so much for the positive feedback. Truly appreciate it!
Eyyy I love your channel lol
@@lunasrojas_ Thanks so much! Really appreciate the positive feedback!
Kang's getting absorbed in the Multiversal engine is definitely to give him superpower in order to make him the most powerful of the Kang. Also to top Thanos as the big bad guy. Imagine how terrifying he is with superpower when he's already scary with only his suit
Completely agree. Will be awesome to see him return. He's gonna be really ticked off! Great feedback as always!
Maybe this Kang will become Beyonder for Secret Wars
@@gabrieldias6546 That's my guess. Would be a perfect evolution for him and we do need a Beyonder for Secret Wars!
@@AbitofEverything4U Still think Beyond needs to be a white guy, young David Hasselhoff type.
@@stickerjunkieproofs6611 Yeah, that comic book hairstyle sure screams Hasselhoff for sure. But I'm down with the character race swap...I mean consider that Hasselhoff was the first to play a live action Nick Fury...but can you imagine anyone else but Sam Jackson playing that role? So I suspect Jonathan Majors will be an incredible Beyonder, or whatever name they give his powered up Kang. It's gonna be awesome!
Okay, I just have to say I love your videos. They’re presented like a college lecture, but you’re so passionate about it that it’s super engaging 😂
Thanks so much for the positive feedback. I really appreciate it!
It’s so comforting to me that we always share the same thoughts, for example, you said: “whether or not you believe that Tobey and Andrew’s universes existed prior to He Who Remains death is up to you, I personally believe they did though” and I be like: “hey! Me too! This guy knows how things REALLY works” hahaha! Even our headcanons are similar.
Great minds think alike! 😁
Agree
They did and they didn’t cus of how time works I guess as soon as he who remains was killed even though kang had just popped up he’d always had been there while also just now coming into existence
The way I see it, the TVA and He Who Remains actually just isolated MCU-616/199999 (according to the Illuminati and Spider-Society’s Reality Designation Systems respectively) from the rest of the Multiverse. Essentially, what this means is that, at least until He Who Remains’ suicide by Loki Variant, the other universes that might have appeared at the beginning of the Multiverse and their branches might have been unable to interact with MCU-616/199999 and vice versa. One example of this phenomenon could be the events of Into and Across the Spider-Verse. The team of Spider-Totems in Into the Spider-Verse never interact with MCU-616/199999. Fast forward about a year and four months and we see MCU Prowler in the Spider-Society’s Energy Cocoons. I think that Into the Spider-Verse takes place sometime before the death of He Who Remains. Now that the MCU can branch, the Spider-Society can extract Variants from there for whatever they need them for.
I truly belive all shows.. like old marvel content all x men movies and even agents of shield can be easily explained by saying they are branched timelines:
The multiverse is insane at the moment, and it’s not gonna slow down. Also random thing I want from Secret Wars is a Hugh Jackman Deadpool variant and a Ryan Reynolds Wolverine variant, that would be amazing.
Gotta have them both in Secret Wars. I hope DP3 brings them into the MCU in a way that they can also appear in Secret Wars for their next appearance. Phase 5 and 6 are gonna get wild!
Imagine a RDJ Captain America and a Evans Iron Man, or Hiddlestone as Thor and Hemsworth as Loki 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
I’m pretty sure I heard somewhere that DP3 will do a Thor Ragnarok and setup Kang Dynasty at the end/ credit scene
Or an Australian accent Thor and Wolverine would be funny
@@SnargGloof-MC Nice!
I’ve been with you ever since you started this MCU craze around 7 months ago and I gotta say your confidence is gleaming in this video, keep up the good work
Wow, thanks so much for being here that long. It's been a fun ride. I really did the first vid on a lark as I enjoy the MCU so much and thought I'd just have some fun with it. I'm so thrilled that people have responded positively, as I really enjoy making the videos. Thanks again for being her from the start. I truly appreciate it!
Good idea there should be a 6 Part Disney Plus Series detailing how Steve returned all the stones with no problems
I would love that so much. I think it would be fascinating to see it all play out. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Perhaps for as where variants are within the Quantum Realm, they are always there but are only seen by people in other universes when in areas where there is a pull from other universes such as around the core in Quantumania (as it was used to cross universes) and thats how the Probability Storm works.
Maybe this is explains Ghost's powers as she is interacting with versions of herself (Quantum Entanglement) which is what makes her glitch out and be out of phase as you said almost like the inverse of America Chavez. When the firefighters first find her she is both there and not there like Schrodinger's cat which was also how MODOK described Probability Storms to Scott.
I think it would be a great explanation of her powerset as Ghost was one of my most hyped characters to return in Thunderbolts and could lead to a redemption arc in Kang Dynasty or Secret Wars as a very left field Nexus Being that no one would see coming.
Yes, I think your explanation is perfect for how variants avoid running into themselves in the Quantum Realm. Love that reasoning. And I was also excited to see Ghost return in Thunderbolts. Hope we see her somewhere soon, if it's true that she won't be in Thunderbolts after all. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
Ima Phase 4 newbie so please explain Ghost’s Powerset
@@jaedynstjuste1708 its explained in phase 3 ant man and the wasp movie
damn i've been binging your channel and i saw you upload, weird coincidence.
Oh how funny! Thanks so much for watching the channel. I have ton of fun making the videos and I really appreciate the support!
I hope everyday that the timeline guidebook will explain the first multiverse war and the events of Loki/Quantumania changing how the 2nd multiverse war plays out. I’m guessing Kang doesn’t fight antman in the original war so that’s what changes it. It would be cool to get a video on your thoughts about how all that connects and changes if you haven’t made one already. Another rest video, I wish I put this much study effort in while I was in school😂
I agree, I'm really hoping the timeline book will tell us alot about the multiversal wars. I can't wait for that book to come out. And you made me chuckle about not putting this much effort in studying at school. Totally with you on that! 🤣 Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
As someone who didn't watch Loki and was a bit lost with how multiverses worked, this video was wonderful. It felt like a 5 minute breeze, super well explained. Keep up the good content man
Thanks for the positive feedback. Yeah, even though I watched Loki, it still helped to lay everything out like this. My mind works alot better when I can visualize everything with an image or diagram and there was definitely alot to put together. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
you kinda sound like the canadian lad
Thanks...that's a compliment as Canadian Lad does really good work!
I think that ‘He Who Remains’ sent his variants somewhere we don't know yet, and when Sylvie killed him the variants broke free, just like when Odin died and Hela broke free from her exile. Hopefully we’ll know more about it in Loki S2.
Yes, I think so as well. That makes alot of sense to me. And I do indeed hope we get the answer in Loki S2!
PETITION TO DESTROY THE MORBIUS TIMELINE!!!!
I agree, let’s hope for an incursion
Preach it!
The multiverse is real ?
It's real and it's coming at us like a freight train!
@@AbitofEverything4U haha wish fury said that to Peter
@@TheDukeCountyGaBoy01 Indeed!
I was so confused until the visual image. It helps a lot. Thank you for that. I still wanna understand why Kang appeared to Janet at that specific moment. My theory is he was already there and saw an opportunity in Janet. Not a great theory, but it's what I choose to believe. My other theory is that it wasn't Kang who appeared at that time but Janet who happened to cross paths with him at the same time of the other Kangs exiling him. Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced by any of that but it being a place outside of time and space the rules are not clear enough. Maybe it was just fate them meeting each other. We see it as if Janet went into the quantum realm in 1987 and Kang in some other point in time but maybe both things were happening at the same time. I'm confused and I want answers. lol
Yes, I'm with you that I was very confused until I made that image and laid it all out. I'm a visual person, so that really helped me to see it represented that way. And I agree, I want to know the details behind how Kang appeared at that particular moment. I wonder if we will learn more when Loki S2 comes out. C'mon Marvel, ya gotta answer these questions for us! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Im preatty sure the Kang in the quantum realm got exiled after he who remains dies. Basically he is part of the second multiverse. Then it would me make sese cause he just got exiled at that point. Also my theory is that the exiled Kang will become he who remains. In ant mam 3 he basically shows us his plan for rge sacred timeline and his motivations are exactly the ones of he who remains. Also in Loki he who remains said that if they kill him, his variants will start anothe multiversal war, he will be created again because of the multiverse and its all gonna play out the same. So basically its a loop of multiversal war, he who remains, Sylvy killing he who remains, multiversal war and so on..
@@filthycasual8517 Yeah, I agree, the hardest thing to figure out is when the Kang in QM was exiled. The reason if feels like it happened during the first multiversal war is Kang shows up in the QR at a point before Endgame had occurred in Janet's timeline. So if Janet had left the QR in 2018 and told everyone about Kang, it could have prevented the situation that led to the time heist, which created Loki, which resulting in HWR's death, which led to the 2nd multiversal war. It seems like there is a cause an effect relationship to Kang's banishment and Endgame due to Janet meeting him prior to Endgame happening. But just a theory on my part. The relationship between the Kang council which is outside of time and Janet, who is inside time, is very confusing indeed. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
17:09 Absolute Point is the only way to explain Tony dying and them not using the time stone to restore his body or go back and just grab a variant.
Excellent point. Totally agree!
I’m really hoping they do something with Iron Lad just because that was so important for the creation and also relationship building of the Young Avengers. How awesome would it be to see Cassie Lang with a Kid Jonathon Majors and the big reveal that it’s a varient of Kang lol
Yes, I agree, I suspect we'll be seeing Iron Lad before long. May even be some more Kangs popping up in surprising places. Great comments as always!
I can agree that the movies have felt a little lacking with phase 4 but, I’m unsure if it’s:
1) bc I’m subconsciously expecting Infinity War/Endgame level spectacles
2) bc the MCU’s world has expanded so much that it’s confusing and convoluted
3) or bc the movies have genuinely just gone down in quality.
I def think it’s a bit of all 3 but, regardless of why, I really don’t think that the MCU is dying like other fans are claiming. I think that the MCU is just growing and changing in ways we don’t really understand yet. The MCU and fans are just dealing w growing pains as they expand their roster of characters and stories. I’ve def scaled back my expectations for future movies but, I still am looking forward to how Marvel and the creative minds behind the franchise move forward w the universe they created.
Great commentary. It could be abit of all of the reasons you mention, but I suspect it is mostly #3 and that it was a result of Chapek pushing for quantity over quality. Iger coming back is huge and will result in a much better product. Feige has hit the brakes on some future projects (such as The Marvels) to get things in order. I think that we're going to see better stories and better VFX in future installments. Unfortunately QM was too far along to benefit from the new push for quality over quantity, but I think it will get alot better going forward. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I think the quantum realm is somewhat geographic, that's why when you leave you come back into your universe, and why you don't meet any other Scott langs and Janet van dynes that are down in the quantum realm because they're geographically under their universe, maybe you could find them if you traveled far enough
Yes, that could indeed be the answer. I also wonder if you are some how out of phase and can't encounter your variants in the QR. Sorta like how the probability field showed as all of the Scott's at once, but outside of that field, we only saw one. I wonder if somehow that's tied into it. Will be interesting to see if they give us more info on the QR in later MCU entries. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
17:50 This is basically the crux why Marvel's timeline and multiverse is so confusing
They don't understand timelines are not a multiverse
The universes that form a multiverse are alternate realities, not related to one another, like the Xmen and Sony Spiderman movies are separate realities from the MCU's 616, but in the same multiverse, they basically exist on top of each other, and can connect, but normally can't interact with each other
Timelines are variants stemming from one single universe, branching out either from time travel or just different events, the only way to go from one timeline to another is to directly manipulate the events that lead to the timeline you want, akin to what the TVA does
Well said! Yes, I am hoping that after Loki's finale, Marvel has made it clear that the 616 is one universe with branching timelines and there are other completely separate universes with their own branching timelines. Together, they make up the multiverse. Totally agree with what you said!
Correction: Christine's immediate death could not have been an absolute point in time, because she is alive in 616, strange did become a sorcerer. I think the absolute event was that strange could not end up with Christine. And the universe was prepared to kill her final destination style to ensure that happened if strange was so stubborn that he insisted on being with her.
That hurts knowing he "loves her in every universe"
Peter Parker's absolute point could be needing to lose someone personal to grow as Spider-Man 🤯
Well, remember, in the What if episode, she died and that was what caused the alternate timeline. And in that alternate timeline, Christine's death was an absolute point in time, as her death was the reason Strange delved into the mystic arts. Hope that makes sense. Definitely correct me if I'm wrong on that. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
HARLEY KENNER Is Iron-lad, Kang Junior he’s been there from the beginning and he has Ironman tech and His father was Gone! 👀 😂
Okay, now that's a wild theory. Wouldn't that be something if they go that direction. They did bring him back for Endgame during Tony's funeral. You could be on to something! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I'm so happy I found your channel like a Month ago; I just got finished watching Quantumania and I saved this video for later, and I must say the work you and your discord put into trying to understand what even some PRODUCERS and DIRECTORS don't, is just amazing love everything you do and I just wanted to let you know.
Thanks so much! I truly do appreciate you saying that. It's so much fun to put the videos together. Takes alot of time, but brainstorming ideas with the server is a blast. Really appreciate you watching and leaving your feedback on the vid. Again, many thanks!
I think you are misinterpretting what Feige said about different "realms" in the leadup to Dr. Strange. When he says those are different than the multiverse, I think that means that each multiverse universe has all these realms connected to it. There only being one Quantum Realm, for example, wouldn't make sense even without bringing the What If episode into play, because at the moment Janet went into the Quantum Realm from 616 she would also enter it in infinite similar multiverses. If there were only one Quantum Realm, it would be full of slightly different Janets all entering from about the same time period. The same couldbe said for many of the other realms you talked of (infinite Stranges in the Dark Dimension or infiinite Gamoras and Black Widows in the Soul Stone's dimension)
Oh, I don't disagree with you at all about the confusion of the QR. I mean, I don't think it works if there are multiple QRs, as I don't get how it then operates as a gateway between universes. But I don't like there being only one either, due to variants running into each other. However, Loveness was really clear in his quote that I mention in the video that there is only one QR for the multiverse. So my assumption is that there is something going on, like perhaps variants are out of phase with each other, and thus the variants can't sense or see each other. I just don't know how to solve it, but whether there is only one QR or multiple QRs, there are issues in both cases and we'll just have to wait and see if Marvel explains how it works in later entries. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Imagine how mcuh money it will cost marvel to hire almost every past actor to fight either kang or the beyonder or whoever
Yes, the budget for Secret Wars will be insane. But if they do it well, it could surpass even the astronomical returns of Endgame. Should be exciting as things continue to unfold! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U Thanks you for repyling I LOVE your vids and I hope you keep making more marvel conetent!
Thanks. Really appreciate that!
Knowing what we know? He who remains did some Shakespeare stuff to Rama TuT Kang and poison him with Alioth! That’s why he looks robotic 🤔😳
Ah, now that's a great theory! You are right, something has to explain that robotic body. I love that idea! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I am genuinely confused as to why so many people think Quantumanias Kang is actually dead. Also I think that the Nexus event in Loki episode 3 is that they were gonna die which wasn’t part of He who remains plan
I agree, there's no way that Kang is dead in QM. He's coming back and he's going to be very ticked. And I also agree that the nexus event was that they were going to die. I could imagine HWR caused the monitors to register a giant nexus event to get them rescued ASAP. Great comments! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I definitely believe that with Ms. Marvel that it was a fixed point so this was meant to happen.
And across the spider verse added a whole bunch of new realities since they mention the mcu as Earth-199999 in the movie
Good theory on Ms. Marvel. I do hope they tell us more about her time travel in The Marvels...can't wait to see what someone can do with both bangles in their possession! And I agree, I may need to update the video now that the Spider-Verse movie has added so many new realities!
Great video as always. I wasn't that bothered by Ms. Marvel because it seemed to operate by Agents of SHIELD's other method of time travel they used before season 7 (using the monolith). It seems like there are ways to travel back in your own timeline, but anything you do will have already happened because the flow of time is an illusion. The best illustration of this is Simmons's experiment where she drank the correct three out of four beakers without knowing which one would kill her. (The only exception is when Daisy actually breaks that rule at the end of the season, which I don't like.)
EDIT: I did just have a long conversation about this on your discord and it should be noted that technically season 5 never used these rules, it just misled the viewer to believe they were the rules
Yeah, I agree, the Ms. Marvel time travel isn't my favorite, but I also think it was very contained and specific to the bangles and to her personal history. As for the AoS time travel, it continually confused me. But I did at least like in S7 when Fitz used the quantum realm to get everyone back to their main timeline. That was awesome. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Okay here is my personal explanation for Time Travel/Branching timelines:
There is leeway, what I mean by that is basically certain things can change, even events can change but only to a certain extent.
Like we saw in Loki, the old man Loki lived countless years without getting pruned.. but why is that?
Because he didn't actually change anything, yes he technically didn't die, but to the rest of the universe he still died.
He Who Remains basically wrote the MCU, certain events are supposed to happen in a certain way and anyone who changes those events too much gets pruned/creates a new branch.
but that doesn't mean ANY change will create a new branch.
Let's take the Hulks example, if they were to put the stones back moments after they left the reality its possible that it would effect so little that the universe would continue as normal.
I see the sacred timeline not as one single timeline, but a set of woven timelines that are almost identical
My proof for this is the Dr. Strange episode of What If, they specifically said in that episode there were TWO Doctor Strange's in ONE timeline. But how is that possible? their worlds are different, one lived for 100s of years and the other didn't.
It isn't possible unless timelines don't actually have hard limits, what if they blend into eachother like how a rope is actually made of thousands of separate fibres.
To me this shows that timelines can shift in and out of eachother if not too much is changed. And like in the Dr. Strange episode, if too much is changed then an incursion happens, but the interesting thing about the one in the Dr. Strange episode is that it didn't collide with another universe.. no, it simply unravelled.
From a meta perspective I think that the rules are just inconsistent even on the best of days, but if i had to explain in canon what's happening, here it is (imma use Kang and He Who Remains interchangably):
Timelines are flows of events and possibilities, if an event, decision or change is great enough it causes a Nexus event which splits the timeline. This means you can effect your own timeline if you do not change much, Captain America could technically stay in his timeline if he changed NOTHING else, that means he couldn't have saved people, told people about stuff like 9/11, stuff like that.
it could be a closed loop, like Ms. Marvel, as long as Captain America didn't change much.
With the sacred timeline Kang has a specific vision in mind, so these real life inconsistencies dont actually bother him that much.
in Loki it was said that the avengers going back in time was supposed to happen, while Loki escaping was not, this to me says even in scripted events there is still free will, things can still happen.
Fate, Luck and Free Will all exist at the exact same time in the MCU.
So, if Luck and Free Will are variables, it makes sense that He Who Remains would make it so that little changes or plotholes dont tear the sacred timeline apart.
It has got a failsafe, not just with the TVA but there's a certain level of change Kang allows in his script.
I think a Nexus event only occurs when it would directly effect another movie.
If Loki didn't die, but pretended to be dead, Endgame would play the same
if Loki didn't die, but didn't pretend to be dead, that would cause a branching timeline.
the conversation between Bruce and the Ancient one could have also not made a branch, not only because this time travel was basically written into the script by Kang, but also because its possible The Ancient One wouldn't change her approach to Steven in any way, meaning no Nexus event.
now, POST multiverse I think its actually different.
Before Kang was allowing things to happen, things which broke the rules of timetravel were his doing, but now that the multiverse has erupted outward and has no one person controlling it, everything time related is a branch.
So when someone says "Why didn't Steve going back in time cause a branch" you can say "cause the script demanded it" and its not even meta, because He Who Remains controls time. If he liked a story better, he'll break his rules to make it fit that narrative.
To him, there are no actual rules of time travel, only the rules he imposed on the universe
he is the script writer, who has canonically written every single movie.
essentially, all plotholes just got explained
"Kang did it"
which is brilliant and hilarious.
so yeah, it technically makes sense, only because they made a script writer character who we can blame in canon for inconsistencies
Love all those theories. I will throw out a few thoughts I had after reading your excellent comments:
- On the Dr. Strange What If episode, I was thinking the only reason there were two Dr. Strange's was the Ancient One did something weird and split him in two. I never really understood what that was all about and just went with it as it was such a great story, but it was something very specific that she did to him and likely couldn't have happened otherwise.
- On Old Man Loki, keep in mind that we didn't know until the end of Episode 6 of Loki what the real mission of the TVA was. It was HWR preventing any timeline branches that created another Kang. So in regards to old man Loki, I think there never was a nexus event, per se. I think HWR used his tech to signal the TVA whenever he felt there was something he wanted the TVA intervene in. At times it was to prune branches that would create another Kang, but other times it was everything that needed to happen for Sylvie and Loki to reach him. So in the case of old man Loki, perhaps he let him live to a ripe old age, knowing he'd be more willing to sacrifice himself, which as you recall was vital to defeating Alioth and Loki and Sylvie reaching HWR. It's key to remember that HWR wrote the entire script for them to find him and so some of the "nexus" events might have been Kang just using the TVA to pave the way for Loki and Sylvia.
- On Steve and branching or not branching when he went back to see Peggy, all I can say is I can't imagine Steve letting so much death occur and just sitting idly by. This funny video perfectly illustrates that point: ua-cam.com/video/hBmj4rs1KrI/v-deo.html. Check it out as it is good for a laugh and is very short.
I do hope we continue to learn more about the rules as things move further towards Secret Wars. I enjoy brainstorming ideas, but I also hope we eventually get some answers. But thanks for theorizing along with me. Really appreciate it!
That’s probably the best video you have made! My favorite one tbh. That helped sooo much, cause a lot of my friends always come to me asking “hey, how does the multiverse works?” so you can imagine how useful this video is for me haha! And Sylvie.... what have you done 🤦🏻♂️
Thanks so much! It was alot of fun to make the video and involved hours of brainstorming on the server. And yes, I wonder if Sylvie has any idea what she did. Kang is coming!
This channel is what I expected EaVoss's deep dive channel to be. But that channel has been very basic so far lol. The real deep dive is here and in KindaCulty channel
Yeah, I really like Voss and I do watch all his vids, but I agree, I expected his dives to be abit deeper. There is so much to explore with the multiverse and I had a blast making this video. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your feedback. Thanks so much!
This is super exciting. The multiverse saga is gonna break our minds! It’s still so crazy how people said phase 4 had no direction lmao
I agree, I'm so stoked for the Multiverse Saga to continue to unfold. Phase 5 and 6 are gonna be amazing! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
You should check out itsjustsomerandomguy’s UA-cam series about Steve returning the stones. It’s so good
I'll check out that out. Sounds like it is great! I will say that the best video I've seen on the topic of what happened after returning the stones and then going to see Peggy is this short and very funny look at what would have happened if Steve didn't branch: ua-cam.com/video/hBmj4rs1KrI/v-deo.html. I couldn't agree with it more, which is why I theorize he had to branch at that point.
47:39 Could be a different version of Kang altogether maybe a good version of Kang who uses the TVA to stop incursions instead of just pruning branches because thats closer to what the TVA does in the comics to keep universe from being destroyed
Yes, that's certainly possible. It's hard to say who is going to be the one to fix it all. Somehow Victor Timely will figure in, so he's my guess as the one that might save everyone in the end. But I think the exiled Kang will be the one to create Battleworld.
love the multiverse concept and being inserted into franchises but it can get a bit confusing. I'm still hanging in tho o_O
Yes, it is indeed very complex. I do hope Marvel manages to keep it fun for the common fan who doesn't want to dig into it as deeply. But I'm also glad that there are so many layers to it and that if we want to do a deep dive, the material lends itself to it. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
After watching Quantumania the second time, I feel as if Kang was aware of everything such as He Who Remains and wanted Scott to use the Pym particles on the time engine so he would forge with the time engine and become a true master of time or maybe where he is able to harness Alioth. I also think He Who Remains will turn out to be Iron Lad as he seems to be the most heroic of the Kang’s we’ve seen so far. It would be awesome for Iron Lad to team up with the Avengers and eventually take up the persona of HWR living a lonely life preventing his variants from ever existing.
Yes, I've been wondering about that theory on the exiled Kang "dying". It would explain alot about why Kang was defeated if perhaps he wasn't actually defeated, per se, and it was what he wanted to have happen all along to gain additional power and also to appear to be dead to the Kang council. I really like that. And the HWR = Iron Lad theory is also really cool. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I believe the Quantum Realm is so vast There we’re multiple Janet’s in there at one time.
I definitely think that works. I'm down with either that or the idea that variants are out of phase with each other and simply can't meet each other due to that. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
42:48 The Citadel exist beyond the Void. We saw the Void in Loki.
We should also outline that theres multiple things that exist outside of space & time.
1. Quantum Realm
2. The Void
3. The place beyond the void where the Citadel sits which is probably still a part of the Void.
Yep...agreed on all points.
Please make a video about all of the realms and dimensions, I would love to see it!
Yes, I think that would be a really fun vid. I need to do that for sure!
Okay this is something I debated with friends for weeks, in Doctor Strange the “multiverse” was a stand in for dimensions. It’s used interchangeably. The Dark Dimension is part of the multiverse. So I always figured there was a SINGULAR universe with multiple dimensions. After Loki what I figured was since HWR death that affected all of time, thus creating alternate timeslines(universes).So in hindsight the use of the word multiverse before still works. It’s a cool idea, and nice we can have debates like this.
Great feedback. Yes, it's important to note that the video is just theories trying to put everything together, so there is definitely much room for debate, as you note.
The reason I think Feige's interview when Dr. Strange came out indicates that we did have parallel realities at that point in the MCU is because he said this: "I think when comic book fans hear parallel dimensions or multiple dimensions they think of Earth 616 and Earth 617 and Earth 618. That’s all possible. But what we’re playing with in this world is there are dimensions - that the other dimensions are not just parallel realities, although some of them are, but there are the Dark Dimension where Dormammu inhabits; there are dimensions that are so mind-bending that you can barely perceive them; there are dimensions where a lot of the Ditko images come from; there are dimensions that are just mind trips that the human mind can barely fathom which is why it’s hard to turn them into something to show audiences in November. But we’re playing as much with the notion of the multiverse as much as alien dimensions, for lack of a better term, than parallel realities where there’s Strange that wears Iron Man armor".
It's a long quote, but I think the most important piece is when Feige said that the dimensions are not just parallel realties, although some of them are. So he's saying the multiverse at the time of Dr. Strange included parallel realities. Hopefully we can get a more definitive answer to the state of the multiverse prior to He Who Remains death, but if you add in Waldron's quote, it seems like HWR was fine with there being parallel realities, as long as they didn't create a Kang. He said that "If you zoomed in on the timeline, it wouldn’t necessarily look like a straight line. It might look like almost the intertwined strands of a rope fluctuating and spiking here and there. When it becomes a problem for the TVA is when, according to their own rules, when could something branch off in a way that it could actually produce a new timeline that could produce a new version of He Who Remains? That is the practical thing that they’re guarding against."
Anyway, all just theories on my part taking into account the quotes they've given us plus the info from the movies/shows. Hopefully we'll learn more as the multiverse saga moves along! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I think Captain America will be revealed to have been a skrull in Secret Invasion throughout the MCU, and the old Steve Rogers is all there ever was at some point.
Okay, that wins an award for being one of the most unique suggestions I've seen yet. Nicely done! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
???
22:57 I think what Michael Waldron’s saying might get contradicted or retconned in some future films because it already presents a huge problem.
I guess it doesn't seem to me that it creates a problem, but I could be wrong.
Michael Waldron is a hack that can’t follow his own logic or continuity in his own statements in simple interviews let alone projects he’s solely head writer of, and that’s the guy Feige wanted to do Secret Wars the same individual that resulted in assassinating everyone character arc in MoM/Loki along with having zero idea of what to do in the 2 act of MoM so he just decided to write the Illuminati dialogue to “fill time for fun because I didn’t know how to connect to a third act” as he himself stated 🙄
@@TipsyLoveLetter Yeah, I'm abit concerned about the reliance on Waldron and Loveless for the movies. Loki was amazing, but those two have seemed to struggle with MoM and QM. I hope there is perhaps a team working on the scripts going forward, as Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars are too important to let them become a tangled mess of inconsistency. Fingers crossed that they get this fixed!
@@AbitofEverything4U unfortunately after rewatching Loki (without rose tinted glasses) it’s nowhere near as good as first believed and full of its own narrative failures & then there’s MoM disappointment (and I’m someone who very much liked both projects for entertainment) but as a story they’re admittedly some of the worst in the entire franchise, I now have zero faith in those writers to be able to pull together a coherent tight narrative that could actually service the lead characters let alone everyone else that’ll be involved in them and the overall story it’s presenting, now after the disaster that is Antman3 I just can’t even begin to get behind Rick & Morty writers trying to present not just one but two Avengers films successful, they clearly love a sandbox of doing whatever the hell a plot for a 20 minute episodes that requires no continuity or consequences but nobody actually stops for a moment and says “Rick & Morty is top quality content” 😔
@@TipsyLoveLetter Yeah, I definitely share your very valid concern. I recently re-watched Loki and while I still enjoyed it, I agree, it left an awful lot of questions to be answered. I guess we find out how things go with Loki S2. Hopefully it starts to reel the story in. Otherwise, we are in for a very difficult ride.
4:13 It's funny that Kevin mentioned Dr. Strange in Iron Man armor because there was originally concept art for Avengers Infinity War that had Strange use the Iron Man armor, and Tony use the Cloak. There was even pictures of that scene being filmed, which is where my profile pic comes from.
Yes! Great point! I wondered if that was Feige alluding to something they had in mind, but they had to scrap. I thought his comment was pretty specific in that regard. Interesting stuff! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Noti gang 🔥🔥
It's my first ever "noti gang" comment. I feel honored!
Great video, is good to have the summary of everything multiverse related
Honestly something I expected from this phases was that they will explain the difference between realm, universe, timeline and dimensions, I don't think I have an answer yet.
Another question was are dimensiona part of a universe or the other way around, but SHe Hulk I guess gave an answer cause Donny Blaze was able to use the sorcerers ring to access a dimension and if dimension contains universes then the plot of Dr Strange MOM wouldn't make much sense cause America was the only one to jump through universes
"What is an Absolute Point in Time?"
Honestly one of the reasons that episode of What If wasn't my absolute favorite is because of the absolute point in time, it goes against the branching rule, it doesn't make sense that Strange couldn't create a branch were Christine is alive, the excuse they gave was that he wouldn't defeat Dormamu if he didn't have the motivation but why does that prevent the branch? Dormamu winning in a universe destroy all the other ones?, couldn't this version of Strange defeat Dormamu in the branched timeline?
Honestly I like to think that the problem in the episode is that Steven doesn't want to create a new timeline/branch, he wants to overwrite the one he is in with the power of the time stone, going against the rules of the multiverse, and that's why the universe tries to correct itself killing Christine.
But I don't think that's why they suggested.
Great feedback! Yes, we really do need them to explain the difference between realms, universes, timelines and dimensions. Maybe the timeline book will do it? And I agree, the absolute point in time is abit confusing. You might have landed on it, however. It could be that Strange didn't want to create a branch and wanted to use the timestone, but it wouldn't let him rewind time to the point before her death. It makes alot more sense that way. Excellent commentary as always!
Great video as always, and one of my favourites!
Everything was spot on, but i still don't think there is only 1 quantum realm, because to me it just makes so much sense if there are multiple because it allows for kang's time travel(/banishment) to be branching instead of rewriting, which fits with Endgame
Thanks again for all your help with the vid! In your comment, I think you meant to say "but i still *don't* think there is only 1 quantum realm", and I agree, that is the thing I am most confused about. I guess that since the Kang Council was outside of time and shot Kang into a realm that is outside of time, very odd things happen. It all hurts my head abit, but it will be interesting to see if they canonize how many QR's exist in one of the shows or movies or maybe in the timeline book. We really do need to know more about what the writers are thinking. Thanks again for being such a great resource for ideas!
@@AbitofEverything4U oh whoops yeah i meant multiple quantum realms
I really hope that the timeline book will give us answers! In the books description it says it will tell us about the formation of the multiverse, so surely that means some concrete multiverse and time travel rules.
I think in the films and tv shows they will deliberately keep it vague, so that everyone who was different opinions can believe that they are correct, but if you want a concrete answer, you can dive deeper and look at the book
Yeah, that may well be what happens...I just hope we get an answer at some point. And again, I really appreciate our discussion, as I had forgotten about the What If episode. It really was important to mention that in the vid for completeness. Thanks so much!
I sugest a video about how the afterlife works in the MCU
Its very confusing
Like there's a Vallhala in every universe?
Yes, I think I should a video on realms and dimensions, which would include Valhalla, the Ancestral Plane, etc. Great suggestion! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Baron Mordo himself said that messing with time can result in time loops (Ms. Marvel, Agents of SHIELD), branching timelines (Endgame) or rewriting the timeline (Runaways, Wong’s death in the Doctor Strange climax). All three of these sets of consequences can impact the Multiverse in wild ways.
Well said! Yes it appears Mordo was abit of prophet regarding his warnings. And the Multiverse Saga has only begun to unfold! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I feel like Mordo found out the hard way. I never considered him to be evil. He was right about everything he warned would happen. Wong also warned Strange, and the Ancient One warned Bruce. It seems that magical beings exert a different force on the timeline. It’s been magic wielders that are both the most concerned and the most dangerous to time and the fabric of reality itself. The two Loki’s are magic wielders that are exerting their will or intent upon the time line. Loki and Sylvie, decided they would survive and then clasped hands, uniting their will into one and due to their powers combining, the spike goes wild because they are introducing chaos magic or mathematics into the system, thus driving the end of that timeline and speeding up the entropy to chaos or enthalpy, which is the decay rate or death of the system. Anytime they combine their will, the ramp up the chaotic energy and create an equal force, which is Kang and his variants. They’re Order and Loki’s are Chaos. You need both for equilibrium. But what happens when Chaos drives order and Order drives chaos? Loki is now exerting Order, along with Renslayer, while Timely and Sylvie are now representing Chaos. I figure Victor will spagettify into the timeline and cause 616 Kang to rise. HWR is Timely and Kang. He’s just completing his loop. It’s all him, and always has been.
This is how I see it bro.
1. Multiverse exists, aka countless universes. Each universe has it's own cosmic beings (celestials, eternity, etc), regular beings, planets, and small dimensions(Dark, Afterlifes, Ta-Lo, etc.). Realms also exist but they function differently, they are systems that connect stuff, like the Nine realms existing WITHIN a universe which connects Jotunheim(planet) to Asgard(dimension). The Quantum Realm is simply a massive one that connects universes, so theres only one.
However, realms are like dimensions in that time and space works differently, but they are not technically OUTSIDE of the multiverse. Dont think of the Quantum realm as a storage unit containing universes or running parallel with them, think of it as a tunnel system running in between them.
2. Kangs become so smart they beat every being in the Multiverse and discover each other. Prime Kang (exiled one) starts the war to avoid incursions and discovers alioth but he is booted to the Quantum Realm. HWR wins the war by eliminating the other Kangs and universes with Alioth, he destroys the Multiverse. He leaves only one universe, molded to fit the rules of a timeline (In Loki we see universes were stacked onto each other, very different from the events after Loki where universes originate from timelines.)
3. That sole universe is called the "Sacred Timeline" by HWR. He then forms the TVA, fabricates the story of Time Keepers, and enjoys peace in the universe. He does this from OUTSIDE of the universe in the citadel. Since the universe functions like a huge timeline now, u gotta clip small timelines to avoid the creation of another Multiverse. Variant beings are sent to the Void, another place OUTSIDE of the universe where Alioth eats everything. So the void and citadel are the only things outside of the universe/multiverse, not the quantum realm.
4. The events of the MCU take place, from Iron Man to Loki. Endgame simply is a case of the Avengers traveling back in time but being allowed to by HWR, and since HWR is alive theres only one universe so the "variants" of our characters are not variants they just the same character in another point in time in the same 616 universe. However, the reason beings like Sylvie can exist when there is only ONE universe, is because HWR allows certain timelines to exist until they actually become a problem. It's just that HWR never allows the timeline to form another universe so Sylvie is technically from the 616 just like main Loki. Then Loki show happens, HWR dies, and those timelines are allowed to expand until they create the second multiverse. A kang variant also takes control of the TVA (idk why though as the TVA purpose has ceased to exist but wtv). This leads to NWH and MoM, with our heroes going to different universes or characters from other universes accessing the main 616, which is no longer the only universe but still is the main one( hence why we follow it for non-multiversal movies like Shang Chi.) Problems like incursions are relevant now because there is more than one universe, which is why In Endgame there is no worries with that since they traveled within ONE universe, just different timelines.
5. Ant Man 3 happens, and Prime Kang tries to get revenge (btw he was never eliminated by HWR he was always in the Quantum realm portion inside the 616.) Kang "dies", making the resurgent Dynasty of Kangs (who also can be OUTSIDE of the multiverse) to worry about other beings becoming as powerful as them (the avengers). This leads to Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars.)
Watch u guys think?
Also What If Series is simply stuff about other universes, so not canon to the MCU but it is to the multiverse. So it does count ig but I mean it's not important and also it's for sure in the second multiverse after HWR death, because The Watcher says time isnt linear and decisions can make universes, all qualities of the Kang modified reality that came after the original multiverse.
Great summary. That goes along with most of what I said in the video, so we are definitely on the same page for the most part. I would suggest just a few small changes to what you said, however:
1. The multiverse did exist in Dr. Strange 1 as the Ancient One talks about it. Also, Kevin Feige's quote confirms that it did exist at that point.
2. The reason the multiverse existed while He Who Remains was alive is explained in Michael Waldron's quote where he said that the sacred timeline was actually several timelines/universes interwoven like a rope and the only time the TVA has to address a Nexus event is when that event would ultimately result in a new Kang.
3. When the Avengers went back in time, they created a branched timeline/universe because as the Hulk explained, you can't change the past and have it alter your future. If you go back in time, you create a new past which is now your future. He said it in a complicated fashion, but he was indeed describing that they created a branch.
4. The reason the branches/timelines/universes created during the time heist were okay and the TVA let them happen is they didn't result in a new Kang being created. The new branches became part of the interwoven universes that make up the sacred timeline.
Otherwise, I think everything you said was spot on. Of course it's all just theory at this point, but that's my thoughts on it. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U I definitely think the idea of a multiverse existing during the events of the sacred timeline is a complicated concept. I'm not sure if it's a case of terminology being used interchangeably because a realm is not a dimension or a universe, and its also not a multiverse. But they always talk about it as the same thing. My guess is that they simply didnt have everything fleshed out at that point (First Dr Strange), and the word multiverse could've been what they meant for countless dimensions and realms. So for me I think that the Sacred Timeline is composed of interwoven timelines like you said, because if not then how would Sylvie and the other Lokis exist yk, but I dont think that those timelines are "universes". Another case of interchangeably using terminology is at the end of MoM, where Clea says there are incursions happening. However, she opens a portal to the Dark Dimension, which is not a universe. Sooooo how can it be an incursion there if its not a universe (unless there going there for another reason). Definitely appreciate your feedback by the way.
Yes, I think the biggest issue is the usage of different terms to mean seeing the same thing. Dimension, realm, universe, multiverse, timeline...lions and tigers and bears, oh my! Perhaps the upcoming timeline book will go into a firm definition of each. I do think that a timeline and a universe are the same, however, because if a timeline branches, it seems that in that new timeline the entire universe must exist. In the time heist, for instance we see them going to different points throughout the universe. So I think a universe is created either by a nexus point from a key decision that splits into a new universe or by time travel that creates a branch which is effectively an entire new universe. But I agree, it's all abit confusing and we just have to try to guess at things for now. Great conversation. Love the dialogue with fellow MCU fans!
Man thanks so much for this video. At first, after Quantumania, I was a little confused. And then, the more that I thought about it, the more confusing it got. This video for me explains it all. It all makes sense, the only thing that I think hasn’t been confirmed is what happened to the three Kangs after the first multiversal war. That is quite confusing and my main source of confusion. Other than that though, it has all been explained. Again, this was a fantastic video.
Yes, I agree, my biggest open question is what happened to the three Kangs. I honestly suspect they were trapped somewhere, but I could be wrong. Otherwise, I think I understand it all alot more clearly now. It really helped me to put this video together as my mind thinks alot better when it is all laid out like this. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I think that I possibility would be that the Kangs were stuck at the end of time in a hope for Alioth to take to them out. However, they survived somehow (maybe because they knew more about Alioth than the other Kangs and knew to hide with the Lokis?) and were hiding and came back, assembling the Kang council of Kangs all over the universes and taking over the TVA to allow for more and more Kangs.
This is just a theory and has some gaps like how they survived Alioth but I like this theory and might be sticking to it for a while until proven wrong.
Yeah, I think it's as good a theory as any I've seen. Definitely a mystery that I hope they answer soon!
I hope it is explored in Loki Season 2 - maybe a part about the three Kangs back story as they are now possibly the rulers of the TVA so I think that they deserve a backstory
Agreed...hoping for alot more backstory on those 3!
37:56 I like that theory that Loki Episode 6 & the Quantumania Post Credit Scene are happening simultaneously. However, I think it creates a plothole.
Without He Who Remains dying, Quantum Kang doesn’t get imprisoned in the Quantum Realm
I'm theorizing he was exiled the first time there was a multiversal war and hasn't re-appeared when the big three Kang's returned as he was still in the QR from the first time.
@@AbitofEverything4U depends because if everything happens throughout time & the other Kangs were aware Quantum Kang was in the Quantum Realm I would assume He Who Remains would as well
Agreed, I think during the first war the three Kangs exiled him, then HWR did something to them (trapped them?), HWR is then killed, and three Kangs take over the citidel once again.
Excellent stuff!
One of the best MCU channels!
Thanks for all your help with it. Hope you liked the updated ending better!
@@gabrieldias6546 Thanks so much!
I do think that the fox movies and the Sony films takes place after he who remains dies due to the fact that he who remains explain about the first multiversal war. Which who knows what that first war even is.
Could be. I personally like the idea of the Sony movies happening prior to his death which would mean they were happening simultaneously with the MCU. But there's no way to know for sure. So you could be right in your theory. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
48:08 I think the other Kangs were just locked out of the 616 timeline.
Quantum Kang could have been pulled into the microverse
Yes, I think the other Kangs were trapped somewhere. That seems to make the most sense. And oddly, they blame the Kang they exiled, when it was HWR that got the best of them in the end.
@@AbitofEverything4U well He Who Remains didn’t try to kill them, Quantum Kang did so I think the beef levels are different lol. HWR was like “just leave me alone”, QK was out for blood
Sorta...it does appear that HWR ultimately trapped them somewhere, so they should be miffed at HWR as well as exiled Kang.
We need to find out which Variant "discovered" Alioth because HWR just found out how to weaponize it
Completely agree! I think it was very intentional that HWR switched from "another variant" to "I" during the middle of his speech. As a narcissist, he would never credit anyone else with something he did, so we do indeed have a mystery on our hands. Personally, I think it's the exiled Kang, but I could be wrong. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U makes sense that he would gain the power to control Alioth but how did HWR end up killing Kang?
@@jaedynstjuste1708 I think the Kang in Quantumania is the one that discovered Alioth, meaning he wasn't killed by HWR but was exiled by the Kang council and then I think that HWR somehow captured and locked the main Kangs from the council away. They then were freed when he died. But that's just my theory for now. Lots to uncover!
The first Multiverseal War that He Who Remains talked about in Loki Season 1 happened like this: the events of Avengers Endgame happen, Loki escapes, Loki Season 1 happens, Sylvie kills He Who Remains, Kang the Conquer is exiled to the Quantum Realm, What If..? Season 1 happens, Loki Season 2 happens, Spider-Man No Way Home happens, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness happens, Avengers the Kang Dynasty happens, Avengers Secret War happens, He Who Remains uses the power of Alioth to win the Multiverseal War creates the TVA and waits for Loki and Sylvie to find him again!!!
Interesting theory. Will have to wait and see how Loki S2 pans out. Hopefully that will give us some solid clues to the timeline!
Just watching this again. In hind sight, you could argue that vulture didn’t go to morbius’ universe due to NWH, but could actually be there because of ATSV
Agreed...I really like that explanation and I kinda wonder if they were hinting at that by that fact that it was yet another Vulture variant that appeared in ATSV. Makes a ton of sense that way.
25:55 let’s add another Theory as to the cause of Incursions. That Kang variants meddling with time is the cause of Incursion, said by Exiled Kang.
Maybe in their narcissistic minds, they (Kang and his Variants) believes they are the problems and solution to everything that’s going on with the death of the Multiverse.
Unbeknownst to everyone, I still think there will be just ONE PERSON that’s pulling all the strings and I DO NOT think it’s Kang or any of his variants.
(THIS PERON) has to be the one. Unless MCU want to save (HIM) for the next Saga.
Great theories. Yes, there may indeed be someone controlling it all. Wonder if we'll find out one day? Only time will tell!
The Three Kang Variants look corny on purpose!! Because Kang the Conquer, The Broken Statue, The Exiled One back from the Quantum Realm is going to mess their stuff up!!
Yeah, that exiled Kang is definitely gonna return and when he does, he's gonna be ticked. Not a good time to be any of those three Kangs! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Did You Know that the Sitcom How I Met Your Mother is part of the MCU?
In an episode of HIMYM they show the theatre where Mary Jane of Tobey Maguire's Spiderman performs, meaning they live in Tobey's New York.
ua-cam.com/video/7f-RiWS5fJ4/v-deo.html
Now that Tobey's universe entered the MCU in No Way Home, so did HIMYM.
Niiiiiiice! I love HIMYM. However, that makes things abit awkward for Colbie Smulders, eh? Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I like the multiverse idea so far. No Way Home was awesome on how it handled the multiverse, Spiderverse, despite it not being an MCU film handled it perfectly. I do think it's a little too complicated for normies like my mom. A little too sci-fi, too nerdy, (we love it cause we're nerds 🤣) it's a fun idea, and hopefully, it expands and it's amazing. I hope DP 3 is the catalyst and the breaking point. I do wish though that different actors played the roles instead of just having a different colored strange, played by Benedict. I was kinda hope Bruce Campbell played 838 strange. I just dont like that some characters like the Spider-Men look different, but somehow, Stange and Loki look the same or how Peggy and Capt Marvel are the same character and actor just with powers. That's why I hope the first Fox Fantastic Four team is in Secret Wars I think it would be hilarious having all the Avengers be so confused as to why Cap is named Johhny and is on fire. Thats just my opinion
Yes, I think you are right that casual fans are going to be confused by the multiverse. I hope it doesn't turn folks away, but it could. But I do like your ideas for alternate castings of the characters, such as Dr. Strange. Can't wait to see what happens during Secret Wars. It's gonna be crazy! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
if we're going with there only being one quantum realm then i think that there are/is a part of the quantum realm that has the zombie virus which is where the what if janet was but the quantum realm as a whole doesn't have the virus
Yes, the What If episode is the tricky piece to everything. I do wonder if perhaps the Quantum Realm is such that variants can't run into each other somehow. It is outside of time and space, so maybe variants are 'out of phase' with each other somehow. But regardless, I do agree that they need to explain this at some point. Great feedback!
@@AbitofEverything4U i don't think it's that they can't run into other versions of themself but rather it's just super unlikely due to the size i mean if you dropped two people in random places on mars and they started walking around (and nothing else) even with all the time in the world the odds of those two people ever meeting is super low and mars is no where near as big as the quantum realm
Yup, I'd be down with that explanation as well!
Spidey, Dr. Strange and Wanda - are crucial to beating Kang. I can’t wait for Wanda’s redemption arch just like Loki. Holy smokes - a team of - Spidey, Loki, Strange, Wanda, Deadpool, Wolvie and Moon Knight - would be epic. The banter would be hilarious, yet serious at same time. I could easily see Strange and Parker looking at each other like - wtf is wrong with these Deadpool and Moon Knight dudes all the while Wanda apologizing to Strange.
That's a fantastic idea for a team-up. The reason Infinity War was so good was seeing lots of different characters teaming up for the first time. Should be some amazing dynamics between them everyone in The Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars. So many great stories ahead in the multiversal saga! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Adding to cap’s situation. Not only did he tell Sitwell “hail hydra”, he also told that reality’s cap that Bucky was alive.. now, add in that he zapped cap with Loki’s brain scrambling glow stick.. Redford character would no longer be exposed, nor would shield collapse as it did in the AOS series and Winter soldier.. The Secret Empire timeline was created from those events.
What we have watched since 2008 was a time loop. That loop was broken in endgame. Tony clearly stated that “when you mess with time, it tends to mess back”.. Mordo stated to strange when he did the same thst “The bill comes due”..
Everything has been laid right in front of our eyes.. But few have the understanding to see it..
Peggy said in a fit of dementia to steve “you came back for me”.. she was talking above old steve.. The father of her children.. Not our steve.
The TVA has been there all along.. And so has Kang..
He (Allowed) Thanos to happen.. And all things that led to Tony figuring out time travel for him to use centuries later..
Kang is playing infinity level dimensional chess.. The audience keeps playing go fish😂
Wow...Great theories! I love them all. One thing is certain, no matter how much we think we know, Marvel is several steps ahead and we are just trying to catch up. Your ideas are fascinating. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
24:56 I don’t think thats what Feige meant
It goes back to my “Branches allow travel between universes” theory
Tobey & Andrew universes always existed.
The spell went wrong & thus it allowed a pathway for people to be brought to the 616
He Who Remains kept that from happening
I think its a little self-centered to say “it creates timelines” because it doesn’t make sense scientifically, metaphysically, or theologically. Existence isn’t predicated on one random universe and I doubt the 616 is a prime universe either. It shares the same factors & weight as 838, Raimi, Webb, etc universes.
Killing He Who Remains opened a gate. It “freed the multiverse” as Sylvie states not create it.
I guess it can be interpreted many ways, but I think HWR's death meant that the boundaries between the timelines was weakened due to so many timelines being created based on new nexus events that weren't clipped by the TVA. But just my take on it. I could be wrong.
I would love if MCU's incursions would stay a mystery, like in Everything Dies & Time Runs Out comics in order to have an Iluminatti roster desperate to figure it out and being forced to the moral descent that leads them into sacrificing other Earths. Im hoping Marvel doesn't explain to us what is going on very early on. And that is why Im not very mucho into 838's Reed and Kang's explanation on Incursions.
Interesting idea. Yes, I can see the advantage of not telling us alot about incursions and making us wait. But I do also see the advantage of giving us some hints so eagle-eyed viewers might spot some of the incursions along the way. Either way, I'm really excited about the lead-up to Secret Wars. Gonna be amazing! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
43:07 I don’t He Who Remains did anything to the other Kangs. He just closed off his timeline from being accessed by pruning all branches & shaping a sacred timeline that is unaccessible to anyone who can travel the multiverse. So this includes other Kangs, America Chavez, Dreamwalkers, & sorcerers.
Interesting theory...but I if that's the case, I wonder where the big three ended up? I mean they were in the citadel at the end of time with HWR at one point (thus the statues) so how did Kang boot them from there? I think that's a big mystery yet to be solved.
What if the main MCU timeline is the branch that Cap travelled back to to live with Peggy? Or that Cap travelling back to live with Peggy is a closed loop, as he doesn't do anything to majorly effect the timeline. Sure it would still be a slow burn incursion risk, but it would also be the only incursion risk at that time.
They don't have kids (that we know of), Peggy continues to live life normally with Cap being a 'stay at home husband', he never interferes with any happenings and attends her funeral in Civil War.
The only major thing i can think of that would somewhat disprove this theory is the way old Peggy reacts to seeing him whilst in the hospital, surely the dementia would hamper her acting ability. Though that could have been her genuine reaction to him first coming back when going to live with her.
It doesn't help that the writers and directors of Endgame can't agree on whether he went back to a branch or not.
I agree...the directors and writers disagreeing about Cap makes it hard to know what really happened. I will say that the idea of a closed loop seems hard to process, as I can't imagine Cap sitting by while all the tragedies of the world happen. This video is humorous in nature, but it does show how hard it would be: ua-cam.com/video/hBmj4rs1KrI/v-deo.html. Anyway, I do hope Marvel gives us a firm answer at some point. Thx for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!
Love your videos and your style. But sad to say after the tragedy that was Antman and the wasp quantumania I think I’m finally ready to put and end to the marvel saga for myself. I find hardly any enjoyment out of these films anymore, little to no enjoyment out of the D+ shows. The MCU was dying, Antman has killed it.
I’ll be keeping a lookout on your DC videos, keep up the good work.
Yeah, I can understand your frustration. QM did not live up to what I expected from it. I don't think it was as bad as the critics are saying, but it suffered from some of the issues that have affected the MCU under Chapek as CEO, which is a rush to get a movie out before the story (and VFX) are ready.
I truly do think things will improve now that Iger has returned, and a great example of why I have hope is that Marvel has hit the breaks on several things (Echo, The Marvels, Blade, Agatha) to be sure that we don't have another Ant-Man. So perhaps give GotG Vol 3 a shot. I agree, if that's a stinker then the MCU is in real trouble. And yeah, looking forward to covering DC as I think Gunn has some great ideas and we should be in for an awesome ride!
This was the first video in a long time. I watched from start to finish, 54 minutes straight. This is my first time to your channel. I agree with the way you presented all the information. I’ve had the same thought as this video is had for a while now. A part of me thinks that “he who remains” and “Kang the conqueror”, are one in the same person. He said something during the series Loki that said “come on now, you have to go through the experience to be changed”. I wonder if he wasn’t talking to Loki and Sylvie, but was he talking about himself. Maybe when he got sucked into that time Vortx in Ant-Man 3 it changed his perspective about winning the war. I’d be willing to go so far to say the first Multiverse of war Kang had the help of the
Multi-verseall Avengers, along with America Chavez and The Watcher. We will have to wait and see. As these movies progress, I would like to see you add on to this video. Kind a like an up-to-date video of the Multiverse War.
Wow, now that's a great theory that exiled Kang is HWR, and I love that you based it on that "you have to go thru the experience to be changed" line. Very interesting! And yes, I like the idea of updating the video as time goes on. Should be alot of fun to see how things slowly unfold for the multiverse saga! Thanks so much for watching the vid (all 54 minutes of it!) and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Very well done! Earned yourself a subscriber. Very informative and well researched. Thank you for this!
Thanks so much for the positive feedback and the sub. I really appreciate it!
Now let's see how Across the Spiderverse plays out in the mix, especifically cuz I think it's ending answers also a lot about incursions.
I agree...I think Marvel and Sony are working together and hopefully in BTSV we'll see everything connect even more!
If there’s only one quantum realm in does that mean it’s also like connected to to the multiverse and if so does the physics go away from the person going in or stays
Oh, now that's a good question. So, I think you are asking what happens if someone from the paint universe entered the quantum realm, would they be paint or live action. Wow, not sure how that would work, but it sorta feels like the person would be the same reality they were outside the QR. So a paint person would be in a paint reality in the QR. But man, that hurts my brain abit. What great question!
10:37 Thanos army being snapped out of existence, created a branch because there was no Thanos anymore to go after the stones
No Gamora in that 2014 timeline affects the Guardians of the Galaxy
No 2014 Nebula either
The result of that is infinite
Mjolnir disappearing for that Thor probably still would be a branch if it didn’t get pruned. So Thor lost to the Dark Elves or he awakened earlier in the timeline.
Exactly... all of those are branches created, since time would have moved forward very differently thanks to the changes the Avengers made!
Dr Stranges Incursion HAS to be Vulture popping over into the Sony Universe?
Or the 818 universe is a timeline of the Fox Xmen universe and Wanda murdering everyone lead to it?
That would be so awesome if that was the incursion. Dr. Strange retrieving the Vulture would make my year! But I also agree that it could have something to do with the 838 universe. I'm sure we'll learn more soon! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
This video explains the whole problem with the MCU currently. 90% of movie-goers are not going to take the time and energy to understand this.
Yes, I am abit concerned that the multiversal saga will start to confuse the average movie-goer. That said, I suspect most fans just accept what they saw and move on. It's the more avid fans like us that want to dive deeper. Still, your concern is valid and Marvel needs to be sure things don't get too complicated or they will lose alot of people (and dollars) in the process. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
You know how in the post-credits scene of Ant-Man and the Wasp, Janet was cool with Scott going into the Quantum Realm but in Quantumania, she's hella terrified to go back in there because of Kang? I feel like the only explanation for that is that He Who Remains' death caused the main MCU timeline to change making it so that Janet met Kang in the Quantum Realm even though that wasn't the case in Ant-Man and the Wasp.
Yes, I've always wondered about that as well. It's possible that HWR's death did in did indeed cause the main MCU timeline to change, but theoretically all it did was allow branches to form off of the MCU timeline which were no longer being clipped by the TVA. It shouldn't have been able to change the past for the existing MCU timeline.
So I'm definitely open to that idea, but I also have to wonder if perhaps Janet was okay with Scott going in since it was supposed to be very brief. She also seemed somewhat scared about the trip as she said "Also, make sure you stay out of the tardigrade fields. They're cute, but they'll eat you. And don't get sucked into a time vortex. We won't be able to save you." So I suspect she was okay only because it was supposed to be for like 30 seconds.
Still, you your point is very valid and I do hope they address it. Loki S2 may help provide some answers as to what happened the exact moment HWR died. I'm really interested to see that. Anyway, excellent feedback. Thanks so much for sharing your theories!
I think at the point where kang was “killed” he was shrunk down to the TVA (which I believe is beyond the quantum realm) and was able to take control of a vacant TVA which explains the statue so in S2 of Loki he’s just collecting info on kang and his variants
Very interesting theory! I could imagine that being what happened to Kang. I do hope we learn alot more when Loki S2 comes out. Should be an amazing series and I can't wait for it to hit Disney+ later this year! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I still think there's multiple Quantum Realms. Realms being different parts of 1 universe. The same with things like the Dark Dimension.
I think the reason that Loveness is saying there is only one QR is that it is being used to transport between universes. So having several QRs seems like it wouldn't let you jump between universes. But hopefully they will explain it more fully down the road. I agree, it is confusing either way you go. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Why does the 2012 branch need to go away? If it doesn't make a kang, TVA won't prune it, so there can just be a weird world where winter soldier is really weird because people know things they shouldn't.
Good point! As long as it doesn't create a Kang, no need to prune it. I suspect you could very well be right about that! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Do you think it is at all possible that RiRi Williams aka “Iron heart” is a variant of kang aka iron lad?? Maybe she is going under a different Alias just like Mary Jane did in Spider-Man and we don’t find out her real name till way later…. Could be a theory. She’s already been to wakanda and kinda explains why she is such a tech wiz naturally
That's a very interesting theory! I do think that Iron Lad is going to be popping up soon and I hadn't considered RiRi, but that's a really cool thought. I hope we see Iron Lad soon, as his/her appearance is highly anticipated! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
The thing with end game is how aware we’re they of all this like how would hulk know that there’s branched timelines I don’t think he would know. I don’t think any of them would know about sacred timelines or branched timelines.
Great point! I agree, Hulk didn't know about the sacred timeline, as only the TVA knew about that concept. And I also suspect the Hulk didn't totally understand branching, although he did discuss it abit with the Ancient One in that scene. What Hulk was sure of was that quantum physics would not allow someone to go back in time and alter the present. So he basically knew enough to know they were safe from messing up the timestream by going into the past. Hope that helps. That's how I understand it at least. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
So somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the assumption that the Avengers going back in time in Endgame didn't create any branches off of the main/sacred timeline because "The Time Keepers" who ended up being The One Who Remains/Kang had written the timeline to happen exactly the way it did until his death from Sylvie. I can't remember if it was Mobius but I know someone said that the Avengers going back didn't get pruned because they were supposed to do that on the timeline and that Loki was getting pruned because he was never supposed to escape, but then we find out Kang wrote the timeline so that Loki did escape so did loki escaping actually create a branch if that's what was supposed to happen in the end?
Great question! So my theory is that HWR didn't tell the TVA all the facts. We see this in the fact that the Time Keepers were a total lie, for instance. So HWR didn't have the monitors register a nexus even during the time heist, which made Ravonna believe that the time heist was supposed to happen and thus the TVA wouldn't prune the branches and Steve could return the stones. However, HWR did have the monitors register Loki as a Nexus event that wasn't supposed to happen, as he wanted Loki brought to the TVA so that Loki would eventually find HWR. HWR paved the way for all of Loki's steps with the intent that Loki (and Sylvie) find him. That's my theory at least. So I do believe the time heist created branches, but they were not branches that resulted in a new Kang being created, so HWR didn't need them to be pruned. Hope that makes sense. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Lmao kind of annoying how, throughout our brief adventures in the multiverse so far, we’ve encountered more characters that we don’t know yet than variants of characters we already know. I’d much rather see cool variants of pre-existing characters than having Marvel tease us with Mr Fantastic, Professor X, and Black Bolt cameos despite the fact that they’re gonna be in the mainstream MCU within a few years
Good point! So far most of the variants are of newer characters. But I do suspect your wish will come true and we'll be getting more variants of our current characters At least we did get some Dr. Strange variants as well as Wanda variants and a Mordo and Christine Palmer variant. But yes, we need lots more variants of our main characters. Will be great to see that in future stories! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
But if the Multiverse and Time Travel are the same thing and some events are unchangable, how can the Doctor Strange episode of What If even happen? Because obviously in the 616 Universe the event never happened?
Good question. I don't believe that absolute points in time are the same across all universes. They are just a point in time for a given universe that can't be reversed. Since Christine's death in Dr. Strange's What If universe was the reason he became the Master of Mystic Arts, it means he couldn't reverse that point in time in his universe. Let me know if that make sense. Sorry I didn't mention that point in the video. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
45:32 I think they pruned that entire branch in 2012. Loki still got away in that timeline. It just doesn’t make sense they were the cause of why he got away and it wouldn’t matter because what they did was done. It would also make sense because if the TVA already knew the time heist was gonna happen, they would just automatically prune any branches to keep them from happening & the Avengers complete the mission.
Well, remember in Loki that Ravonna said the time heist was supposed to happen. I suspect that means HWR wanted it to happen and thus he made sure those branches didn't register as a Nexus event. However, he made sure Loki's branch did register as a Nexus so that the TVA would bring Loki in and thus lead to the choice Loki and Sylvie had in the final episode. HWR decided what was and wasn't a nexus event and the TVA just did whatever the computers told them to do.
26:56 I wonder if Sony/Marvel will use the incursion fact for Spider Man because a symbiote was left behind and I would say that’s pretty big evidence of another universe since as far as we know Symbiotes don’t exist in the MCU universe
Yeah, I think the symbiote may well cause an incursion. Based on what Reed said, that's exactly what cause incursions to occur. Guess we'll have to wait and see! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
With Ms.Marvel logic, is x-men days of future past a closed loop. Remember the x-men timeline is in the same multiverse as the mcu and raimi/Webb universes.
Yeah, they really do need to explain the X-men time travel. I personally think it could work with branching logic (even if the writers didn't explain it that way) and I made a video on it here: ua-cam.com/video/voYZDAKyQVY/v-deo.html. The closed loop scenario is an interesting possibility, but I think the difference is that the only reason Kamala could go back in time is she was always there to being with, while DoFP implied history worked one way (as seen in Wolverine: Origins, the X-men trilogy, The Wolverine, etc) and then was re-written with a new history (i.e. the path that didn't include those stories). So it isn't a closed loop per se. I do hope that Deadpool 3 attempts to clear it all up. The X-verse timeline is just a hot mess in general. Great movies, but messy timeline. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I do think concerning vulture in the Sony universe was just a varient that looks like the main MCU vulture. Much like professor x or kang.
I'm all for that explanation. Sony definitely made things very confusing with those Morbius post-credit scenes. I hope Sony just pretends like those scenes never happened, tbh. Ugh! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Maybe the robot looking Kang could be Iron Lad? Obviously has a different origin than the comics but that's the first thing thar popped into my head when I saw that Kang variant
Yeah, I'm really anxious to see what they do with Iron Lad. I have a gut feeling we will see him pop up in present day in the MCU, but that's just a guess. I heard a recent theory that the reason the one Kang is robot looking is he was badly injured in the previous multiversal war, and blames the exiled Kang for it. If that's the case, it will be very interesting to see them meet up once again. But your theory about the robot Kang being Iron Lad is also a possibility, so I can't wait to see where things go next! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Hey man, this is a great video. I have been breaking my head over how the multiverse in the MCU works. This explains it perfectly!
Thanks so much for the positive feedback. Had alot of fun making that video. I'll make addendums as the multiverse saga continues. Appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your thoughts!
I still have some to watch of this video and I'm going to do it right after I comment. But you just said that you read all the comments and I hope that's true because everything that you're saying makes perfect sense. I'm loving it and I agree with you fully on the three statues and the fourth broken one as well, it making sense but.... I think what Kevin feige and team are planning on doing is that in the first multi-versal war Kang the conqueror either didn't get stuck in the quantum realm, like he never got banished, or he had escaped it. So he is destroying everything. Keeps destroying universe after universe, Kang after Kang, and somewhere along the line he finds Alioth and he who remains pulls a fast one and uses Alioth to kill Kang the conquer. From there he finishes off what king the conqueror started, creates the sacred timeline. After he who remains is killed this time, I think they are going to make it where something different happened, they will reveal a nexus event that changed the destiny of king the conqueror. Most likely he will become kang prime or the beyonder now once he escapes whatever dimension he is in within the multiversal core. But the Nexus event is important because that's why the TVA has a different statue, a different leader.
Excellent feedback! Yes, you raise a great point that the Nexus event is perhaps the key to everything. I suspect that Loki will end up helping the heroes and with all his experiences from his show, he can certainly explain the nexus concept and may be vital to leading the team to find the origin of Kang and thus how to prevent it from happening. Love those ideas! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
2 lokis enchanting a creature that can devour entire Multiverses is f*cking wild😂😂. Ridiculous
Yeah, the Loki series was absolutely bonkers. I can't wait for S2. It can't come soon enough! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
All of this is thanks to Hank Pym inventing or discovering the Pym particle. Probably so he could hang out with ants.
Yes, it does seem Hank loves his ants. I wonder if Janet was ever jealous of the ants? I can just see the arguments now. Yikes!
Nahhh cause like, why do I feel like I’m watching a b class power point my online teacher do in her online class instead of watching an actual marvel review how multiverse works!
This ain’t school💀
Yeah, my apologies as I do realize that it can feel like school. That said, there is so much cool info to share about the multiverse that I didn't want to fill it with alot of video clips just for the sake of adding visual stimulus, per se. But I completely understand if this type of presentation isn't your thing. I've gotten really good feedback overall, so if you ever do decide to check out the vid, I promise you'll find it interesting. Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I truly appreciate it!