Grand Duchess Maria and the guard: did something inappropriate happen at the Ipatiev House?
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- Maria and the guard story: did something inappropriate really happen between the Grand Duchess and the guard Ivan Skorokhodov at The House of Special Purpose?
On June 14, Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna turned 19 years old. It is unclear how her birthday was celebrated, or not celebrated, at the "House of Special Purpose"; what we do know is that many decades later, a story was published in one of the Romanov biographies, about a guard named Ivan Skorokhodov, who supposedly was more fond of Maria than was appropriate, and who smuggled a cake for her last birthday in June of 1918. It was claimed that this fondness was reciprocated on the part of the grand duchess, and Skorokhodov was consequently dismissed from his post, after being caught in a “compromising position” with Maria.
To be sure, George Hawkins and I addressed this narrative in our book, "Maria Romanov: Third Daughter of the Last Tsar", and found that there is absolutely no valid evidence that anything like this ever happened.
The story of the cake seems to have first originated with one of the executioners, Pyotr Ermakov, most of whose accounts have been proven to be extremely unreliable.
Ivan Skorokhodov was indeed a guard at the Ipatiev House, but he left due to an illness and hospitalisation rather than dismissal.
The "cake" myth served as a basis for stories about Maria being “shunned” or “frozen out” by her family members, by her mother and eldest sister Olga in particular, due to her alleged inappropriate behaviour, but again, there is no evidence that Maria was treated any differently by anyone.
The fact that she was the only one of the imperial children who did not have jewels sewn into her corset had nothing to do with being treated differently, but with the fact that she was the one who went to Ekaterinburg with her parents, while her siblings remained in Tobolsk, where they had secreted the jewels in their own under clothing, prior to their arrival at the Ipatiev house.
Parts of a note written by Yakov Yurovsky about a conversation with visiting clergy, which was cited as a source for the alleged "scandal" involving Maria and a guard, had been misconstrued, and used to imply that something untoward happened.
The Yurovsky note was quoted as stating that the priest who conducted the last service for the family stated that “one must give a pass [for inappropriate behaviour] to an imperial soul”.
However, the original note in Russian mentions nothing of the sort - the pertinent part actually reads: “I invited the Priest and the Deacon. When they had got dressed in their vestments in my commandant's office, I told them that they could perform the Service according to custom, but warned them there must be no conversation. The Deacon declared, ‘This is what happened before and not with such important people. If one messes it up, it can cause a scandal, but in this situation, we can sort it out in a good spirit’”.
It is still not completely clear where the myth of Maria’s inappropriate behaviour and consequent shunning was derived from, but it seems that it was just based upon a faulty translation in the original publication that referenced the alleged incident.
Another reason why the “cake” incident, not to mention "compromising" antics, was extremely unlikely, is as follows: after the new commandant Yakov Yurovsky arrived at the Ipatiev house, he installed an entirely different guard team, and started hyper-monitoring any fraternisation between the guards and prisoners during their final weeks. Breaking any rules, no matter how minor, resulted in the violator being immediately thrown into a local jail. That would just be the punishment for entering into a conversation with one of the prisoners. The alleged incident such as described, would have carried an even worse punishment, most likely an immediate execution, and the guards all knew this.
In conclusion, it is true that none of us has a way of knowing what may have happened behind closed doors at the House of Special Purpose, but there is absolutely no evidence that anything inappropriate ever happened between any of the grand duchesses and the guards. Any references used to indicate that something like that happened, is extremely unreliable or simply nonexistent.
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Very welcome correction. Poor Girl. Even in death they tried to tarnish her reputation. Of course Hollywood has never worried about the truth. In the Nicholas and Alexandra film Tatiana exposes herself and in the Netflix series “the last Tsars” Maria is caught fully engaged in the act with a guard. Very sad that they are defamed this way.
I think “The Last Czars” was one of the absolute worst depictions of the Romanovs that I have ever seen.
I didn't think that anything inappropriate happened with the two of them..
@@elsakristina2689 I partly disagree. The acting and chemistry was great, as well as the depiction of some scenes. However, there was a lot of unnecessary nudity and sexual acts shown that weren't necessary. Not just between the Tsar and Tsarina, but also Rasputin.
Helen thanks so much for sharing this!! I believe the OTMA were beauties, but, Maria is my favorite. I am so thankful & relieved you share this, and at the same time for pointing out this incident is nothing more than a myth, so that I can be assured that my favorite Romanov sister (the darling, sweetheart Mashka), can rest in peace with her sweet angelic beautiful reputation!!
I know the biography you mention, and I remember reading about the alleged incident with total disbelief and disgust the authors had included it in their book. It occurred to me they were looking for something sensational in order to make their research appear more thorough. So, I didn't believe it then, and I still don't believe it. Its nothing but utter rubbish. I'm glad you mentioned it, and lets hope the supposed incident will be relegated to where it belongs - in the trash bin.
I am SO glad you clarified this for everyone Helen! I know Grand Duchess Maria is smiling at you from afar…..❤️💐
Wall said! Thank you for your clarity and research. I also don't believe that. It doesn't go with Mari's behavior. She wouldn't have acted in such a way, considering her education, religion, kindness and expectation. And the way they were treated in the house prevents such romantic things to have happened. But people like stories, forbidden love and to have kinder things happened to them at the house before they were murdered.
Thank you for your detailed investigation and clarifying this event
Thank you so very much for your continued painstaking research. It is greatly appreciated! 🙏
Thank you for setting the record straight. Your research is truly invaluable
REST IN THE PEACE MASHKA BEAUTIFUL BLUE - EYED GOD'S HUMAN ANGEL ROBERT FROM POLAND😥😥😥😥😥😥
I'm not even saying that the cake story is categorically not true, there could be something to it, there may have been a cake, possibly baked by their cook, or perhaps brought from outside by someone for Maria and was allowed, and maybe even carried in by one of the guards, not necessarily Ivan Skorokhodov. You know how stories get changed and "edited" when told and retold. But to go from that, to a scenario where the guard who gave her a cake was caught in a "compromising" position with her, is a huge stretch, considering that it was mostly based on a quote from Yurovsky which was completely mistranslated. Skorokhodov was probably chosen as the guard "culprit" because he was the one who left his post as the guard shortly after M's birthday. As we know now, he wasn't "dismissed" as it was claimed, but left due to illness. This is how these myths are created. The "author" will have a hypothesis about what happened, but instead of finding evidence of something first and go by that, they cherry pick things who fit their hypothesis, instead of the other way around. Huge no-no in academia.
The "shunning" bit is quite a stretch too, based on something equally as vague, and spun to fit the narrative. We can always find some hidden meanings in things and spin various stories, but fact is, again, just because something is possible, and we wish something was so, or it fits our theories, doesn't make it so. You can't spin things from almost nothing to fit your own imagined scenarios.
_"But to go from that, to a scenario where the guard who gave her a cake was caught in a "compromising" position with her, is a huge stretch, considering that it was mostly based on a quote from Yurovsky which was completely mistranslated."_
I was wondering, what was that "quote" from Yurovsky that got completely mistranslated? Or in short, what did Yakov really say?
La più bella e la più dolce delle sorelle Romanov di cui sono rimasti solo pochi frammenti di osso.
Excellent investigation Helen - well done👍. I would say that this was a lie and not really a myth.
They continue to speak ill of these holy Martyrs!
The priest who knew them at the end even wrote in his menoirs that he wished his kids could be as pure as the Romanov children were.
So glad you are stopping to debunk this nonsense. Thank you💖👍
I've told people b4 that Maria didn't have jewels in her outfit, not b/c she was shunned, but b/c she departed for Ekaterinburg sooner than the other kids. This is also why I think (and this is obviously total speculation on my part) that she likely died in the initial salvos of gunfire & she likely died quickly. Also, Yurovsky didn't take command until July 4th, so the stricter machinations in the house didn't exist until that point -- almost three weeks after her birthday. A man named Avdeev was in charge when the supposed cake incident happened. This is important b/c he grew to become very fond and lenient towards the family, for a number of reasons that I won't get into.
Nevertheless, there is still no evidence anything like this happened...
Also, if you have access to my book, "In the Steps of the Romanovs", there are reports from several guards even before Yurovsky arrived, and there were still lots of rules and restrictions for the guards, although not as strict under Yurovsky. I wouldn't be that surprised if there may have been something to the cake story perhaps, but a guard getting caught filling around with one of the female prisoners is a whole other level. It's a pretty big leap from giving a cake to a birthday girl to getting caught in a "compromising" position with her.
@@inthestepsoftheromanovs5750 I personally believe that "Cakegate" did happen. There's just too many factors pointing to its likelihood rather than not. All of the girls flirted w/ Avdeev's guards. You're right though, Yurovsky said that after he took command all 4 girls tried to flirt w/ his men, but his men would not flirt back.
@@ET_Bermuda Well, it's quite easy to write that when the people who were dead at the time couldn't give their version of events. You can write that they did whatever you wanted and imagined. General life advice, don't tend to believe men who said some women flirted with them... Especially without the women's point of view. Considering the situation in the Ipatiev's house and OTMA's mental states and the way they were treated at the time, I highly doubt that.
@@azurzelle When you've got multiple people at the time saying the girls flirted, the girls likely flirted. Lol, none of the actual killers have claimed that the girls flirted w/ them, but with other guards. So, it's not quite the same a guy claiming that the girls flirted directly with him.
Thank you for posting this.
Thank you! It's a relief that this probably didn't happen, because I'd hate to think of a rift happening between Maria and Olga/Alexandra so close to their deaths. Although at the same time, it would have been nice if Maria had some romance in her short life. I doubt she would have gone off to be alone with a guard though!
Most likely there was, but it was more of a distancing due to the conditions they were in and most likely because they already imagined what was going to happen to them.
People always try to make more out of what really may have happened.
Thank you for debunking . This is one reason I dislike movies that dramatizes facts, the dramatization of this nature breeds misconception & misinterpretation. The Last Czar & his families have suffered enough.
yes , in films, series,don't dramatize things that may not have happened, and stain their characters.
Considering how the Imperial Family was kept under constant scrutiny by their Bolshevik captors, it is very difficult to believe that anything "inappropriate" happened between HIH The Grand Duchess Maria and Ivan Skorikhodov. Also, one must consider the piety of the Imperial children. The alleged story of "the cake" is utterly preposterous and impossible to believe.
Helen Than you so much for the video. Most or if not all Romanov followers Know where this material comes from. I still remember the claim that the photos had never been seen before, well as soon as I got the book I could tell you what books they were from. Unfortunately the authors have written others that I will not touch. I am curious as to what side they have been on.
Helen Rappaport briefly references this in her excellent book 'Ekaterinburg' (2008)
Thank you for setting the record straight! That's like the outlandish rumor that one or more of the family survived the execution. People would make anything up!
Agradezco vuestros videos aunque solo hablo español pero intuyo el contenido sufro mucho por las penas que pasaron pobrecitos pero tambien me alegro porque Cristo El señor los sostuvo siempre y despues entraron directos Al cielo con Jesus su Amado
I wanted to say that I really enjoy reading Helen's books as she is a wonderful author who obviously loves the Imperial family as much as we all do and would never publish anything untruthful about them.
I have watched too many films and TV shows about the family to count and they all have their good points and their bad points, things that really actually happened and of course things that certainly didn't happen that were just made up.
We know alot about what happened in those last dreadful months of the Imperial family's lives and there is things we don't know about. I can imagine Maria making friends with one of the guards and chatting with him, maybe she mentioned it would be her birthday soon so the guard as a kind gesture (they weren't all monsters after all) brought her a birthday cake, so Maria thanks him. I don't believe at just that moment somebody catches them being inappropriate I think that's a lie to slander the family's reputation. I can imagine Alexandra and Olga thinking Maria was probably a little bit too friendly with the guards, Olga in particular knew what was going to happen in the long run.
I imagine the entire time the Grand Duchesses were thinking "I wish we were some place else like with our nice officer friends"
Over time history and those who control it can spin it anyway they want. In effect creating scandal within the family.
Sadly, this is true. Some will use sensationalism to sell their work, instead of actually using factual info which is available out there. And it sticks to a point where it becomes accepted "fact". There are so many examples like this in romanov history. I hope to make a video debunking top 10 Romanov myths!
Helen, was it Maria that was buried along with Alexei? What is your firm belief?
Helen I just watched a few minutes on another UA-cam channel who stated this happened she said other thing's that well I stopped listening and to do more research...
The Imperial family was hoping that somebody would rescue them from their prison so maybe their idea was to strike up friendships with a few of the more friendly guards who would in turn be "on their side" if and when anything happened, and of course if they were friends with some of the guards it was a way of getting news and other things from outside the prison.
The Imperial family had the same problem lots of famous people before and after them had; that people will publish all sorts of rubbish about them just to make a few quid and it shouldn't be allowed.
ALOT of references say Ivan smuggled in a cake and they were caught in a “compromising position” and that’s it. Most people say it was a kiss and that’s it. I’m not sure who is making the doco here but HUNDREDS of references state this incident!
All these references come from one erroneous source. There is absolutely no reliable evidence this happened. But it's your prerogative to believe anything you like 🙂
Show us the hundreds of references! You can not, because they do not exist. This is how rumors get started.
Annemin o zamanbize snlsmsiz gelen mesajları cok isime yaradi gercegi ortsya cikartmsk icin
Sonra maria kimlik değiştirmiş diye düşünüyorum isim tarz degistirme
Why is it so hard for people to believe that these girls might have had sexual interests? Can people please let them be remembered as humans and not as deities that did no wrong
It's not hard at all, the point is that there is no evidence it happened.
Yani benim babamın annesi maria annemin mesajı
O fotaraf ortalikts idi zaten herkes görmüştür sadece adi konulmamış sonradan o fotaraf kaldırıldı 😂
It's sad to think that the authors of this certain biography are still writing and publishing. Indeed, one of the authors seem to make it a professional hobby to create myths for which there was no basis.
At least we have ways of checking the veracity o f a lot of these claims, now that so much archival material is freely accessible !
Was there ever any royal matches that were planned for the princesses? It seems unusual that there were no offers made from other royal families in europe.
Olga was really the only one barely old enough in 1914 to get married, at 18. They started looking for a potential husband for her, and then the world war started, and they had to put that on hold. Maria was only 15 when the war started, way too young to start marriage procedures.
After the failed 1914 attempt at promoting a marriage between Olga and Prince Carol (of Romania), both families began talks about it again in January 1917. The parents of both parties were for it, but it seems that the Dowager Empress was not for it. There has been stories about potentially matching Tatiana with Alexander of Serbia, but I have never seen any actual proof of this.
@@georgehawkins7190 judging by the womenizing history of Carol, particulaly after his marriage to a Greek princess , he is not a good choice.
Nothing wrong if she had a relationship whit a guard
I think it would be only natural if it did happen.
Just because something was possible, it doesn't mean it happened.
What's "inappropriate"? Sex? Intimacy?
Yes, this was what was implied.
@@inthestepsoftheromanovs5750 why? Why this is "inappropriate"?
@@TomekTomek333 because supposedly it caused a great scandal and shunning from her family members. Of course it never actually happened. Don't overanalyse this, I'm just responding to a myth that's been floating around.
Not even that, it seems that the soldier offered a birthday cake for her birthday. Hidden. Because the guards couldnt offer things to them. In result he was removed from his position and her older sisters didn't like it and were upset. That was the inappropriate for their education and time. The inappropriate of those times it goes a milliage for the inappropriate of nowadays.
She did not die could very well went east to China. Her boyfriend would have provided transportation as cover for her. Most people think going west she would not because many people to kill her only east many Russians lived in NorthWest China at the time.
???
Annem kaslarinin duz oldugunu bize mesajla anlattı tek anlayan ben
Does it make a difference 103 years later ?
you are here, so yeah it does
@@adrianrhodes112 on the contrary I wanted to see what leftist propaganda the video contained .
So what did you see?
@@inthestepsoftheromanovs5750 speculation , internet post hateful gossip , slander of the dead. All of the things that tantalize you’re ghoulish nature .
Are you talking about my video or other stuff you saw? Because my video actually DEBUNKS these stories...
"tsar feodore IV": I question the concept of marriage but for the sake of discussion I will use the term :
What would you do if I told you that tsar nicholas's daughter got secretly married in November of 1916 and had secret children. Remember that in an absolute monarchy the church can get authorization by the tsar to marry anyone of any age (especially in a life and death situation). What would you do if I told you that the secret children survived and that I decended from nicholas ? If you secretly married off your daughter to a secret kuric dynasty heir (from "yugoslavia") in November of 1916 would you disguise him like a guard so that he could spend time with your daughter? Would you keep everything secret least they murder the children that got born? Have you heard of the Michigan polar bears ? Did they bring the children to America ? Did russian "orthodox" prophecy (Abel the prophet) say that his(the next tsar) name got mentioned 3 times in russian history ( tsar feodore I,II and III) two of the same name have already sat on the throne (of the romanovs) but not on the RUDIC throne (like feodore I) but he ( the future tsar) will sit on the RUDIC throne as the third (romanov ruler). See "simon the orthodox indian' website about prophecies. I suspect that the word "tsars" got added to the text ( perhap in an attempt to do away with a seeming contradiction )- two dynasties no contradiction. What would you do if I told you that tsar nicholas had secret grandchildren and I decended from nicholas ?
What nonsense.
@@inthestepsoftheromanovs5750 "tsar feodore IV": what part do you consider nonsense? Do you consider the prophecies of the "orthodox" church nonsense? Do you consider the concept of absolute monarchy nonsense ? Do you consider the idea that nicholas had "outsmarted" his enemies nonsense ? It a historical fact that the "michigan polar bears" and british troops did go to russia. Why would president wilson risk american lives in russia ? Educate yourself. Visit "michigan's own military and space museum" in frankenmuth michigan.
@@theodoremacewko7757 You are insane!
Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Willis!
Da hail?