OUTLINE: Here’s the timestamps for the episode. You should be able to click through the timestamp on most players: (0:00) Intro, Background, and Credibility (12:20) BJJ Academies and Injury Risk (17:57) Ecological Dynamics and Jiu Jitsu (36:36) Measuring Effectiveness (43:00) Why Greg Hates "Hobbyist" Jiu Jitsu (55:00) Perception, Action, and Emergence (1:15:00) Mandating Variance and Intensity (1:29:00) Ecological Approach vs. Positional Sparring? (1:39:00) Belts, Ranking, and Advancement
I deepen my understanding with every single interview with Greg, even though many of the same things obviously come up. But each interviewer asks things in different ways and Greg finds different ways of explaining. This interview was excellent, great questions and persistence in getting clear answers. Thanks
Thank you for taking the time to listen and leave a message. It's invaluable to hear this feedback from someone who has tuned in to multiple Souders' interviews. I appreciate you.
I'm an 'enthusiast,' as Shawn Williams would call it. I prefer not to compete. Yet train six days a week, and most of my training partners compete in competition.
I would put myself in your same basket. Although I've competed in the past, I'm enjoying focusing on improvement in the absence of competition currently. But I love helping teammates prepare for tournaments.
I love jiu jitsu, i used to compete and train 6 days a week but reality happens i have kids family ect, and other pursuits, i prefer 2 classes a week and hitting 2 open mats on the weekend. I still improve and keep from being burnt out this way.
Sounds like playing these type of "games" requires breaking down to foundational principles, would require coaches that actually understand the foundational principles of techniques
I work as a substitue teacher, and many times I have let the kids that I've worked with try BJJ. I would have one standing and one on bottom, and just said: standing, get past the legs and pin, bottom, you want to stop the pass. Go. And all of a sudden in a matter of minutes they're solving problems and doing BJJ: knee cuts, half guards, underhooks, sweeps, etc. Just playing around with that one instruction/goal in mind. It's so cool.
Greg is a buddy and been implementing this approach with my kids program and it’s phenomenal and results driven. Kids are coming in the first day looking like they’ve had grappling experience with these task based games! Great questions and great podcast. And it’s sooooo helpful for the kids because they start playing games from the beginning of class to the end. They are all having so much fun vs learning boring step by step “kata” techniques with short attention spans
Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and leave a message. I appreciate the kind words and will continue to research guests before bringing them on in hopes of keeping the questions specific.
Thank you for this great podcast. Many really good points and thoughts. I have recently jump down the rabbit hole of ecological learning and its application in grappling and I have similar thoughts and questions as you asked Greg. Thank you for that. To the point of a los or win by someone who does illogical or ecological training means anything in terms of effectivenes. Lets look at the science of learning, lets look at the speed with which we develop skill with the 2 methoods/frameworks not individual events. I think one of the misunderstandings is that people think Ecological training claims that people get better than everybody else with this methodology. The claim, as I understand it, is that skill is develop faster. And there is a very important difference there. I hope it makes sense.
I completely agree with this take as a hobbyist myself. I still don’t understand his frustration with it. It’s okay when students prioritize other aspects of life. Greg asks “do you want to be good at what you do?” My answer is of course! But I have to be competent in things other than jiu jitsu to support my life. Not about stopping when I’m uncomfortable, but simply that I have other priorities.
ELO in bjj would be awesome! I was thinking of implementing it within my students, but honestly didn't start to look into the math and statitics of it. For becoming a teacher maybe a combo of peak elo at some point in life + PE based skills (psychology, human development, physiology, nutrition etc).
The money I would pay to get Greg Souders, Lachlan Giles, John Danaher, Gui Mendes, Mikey Musumeci, and Dima Murovanni in a room and discuss their jiu-jitsu philosophies. It would be invaluable.
1:28:16 Ha. I told you! I knew if you dug in you'd get it. And Greg talked about things I hadn't heard him say. Stoked you chose to challenge your own ideas and preconceived notions. Well done. Hope you'll get Scott Sievewright on. He's doing this for striking and MMA so same thing from a different angle. Listed others already and I'm sure Greg can or did give you a list.
Thank you for listening brotha! It was a fun conversation. Tried to push back where appropriate but also listen. Listening is the most difficult part when you want to bark back. I'll aim to get Scott on as well. That could be a great conversation.
We don't need "new thinkers from the last 100 years" to do away with Cartesian dualism. This is just a rediscovering of very very old knowledge systems.
Bro your brain broke at about the 1hr mark. I think you thought "wow, this is actually how I've wanted to train this whole time" then your mind flooded with all sorts of hypothetical problems around implementation in your current gym culture.
I think the eco approach has a lot of positive attributes. I also think I did a poor job of pushing back in certain areas. For example, some elements need specific instruction (in my opinion), the same way that throwing a pitch or hitting a golf club have mechanical moments. But Greg has great points around emergent behavior which is a concept I'm now very interested in. I have a strong goal to become a better host, do better research, and push back with more confidence. But it's a work in progress. Thanks for taking the time to listen brotha.
@@MaynIdea Ah I see. I thought this was the best Souders interview to date and you did a great job. It's going to be hard for anyone debate Greg on this topic. Anyone with equal knowledge to himself is going to be an advocate for, rather than against ED.
Nomenclature of discrete objects and motions is useful for analysis (coaches) but not for learning (student improvement). Naming things creates artificial barriers for good and for ill and might disrupt one's ability to naturally find the similarities between, for example, a number of arterial closure pathways including RNC, "fast choke", leg and arm triangles, guillotines, and even "front RNCs."
@carreromartialarts in precise, accurate, and descriptive terminology. Rephrase it if you like with smaller words. But they key is the accuracy. RNC says nothing. You'd have to further explain it using similar description as Josh used. Your goal should always be minimal words necessary to have that precision and accuracy. Hope that helps.
Drillers are killers. Final answer. This interview was extremely off-putting to me, someone who has wrestled and practiced Jiu-Jitsu since I was 12. I'm 50.
You're just bitter you wasted so much time relying on a cliche rhyme to inform your education and skill acquisition when the whole process could have been sped up immensely. You're welcome to make an actual argument though. Instead of an appeal to tradition, special knowledge, and authority all in one. If you unsubscribed over the presentation of something different, you're about as thin skinned and mentally weak as a person can be. Don't announce that publicly.
OUTLINE:
Here’s the timestamps for the episode. You should be able to click through the timestamp on most players:
(0:00) Intro, Background, and Credibility
(12:20) BJJ Academies and Injury Risk
(17:57) Ecological Dynamics and Jiu Jitsu
(36:36) Measuring Effectiveness
(43:00) Why Greg Hates "Hobbyist" Jiu Jitsu
(55:00) Perception, Action, and Emergence
(1:15:00) Mandating Variance and Intensity
(1:29:00) Ecological Approach vs. Positional Sparring?
(1:39:00) Belts, Ranking, and Advancement
I deepen my understanding with every single interview with Greg, even though many of the same things obviously come up. But each interviewer asks things in different ways and Greg finds different ways of explaining. This interview was excellent, great questions and persistence in getting clear answers. Thanks
Thank you for taking the time to listen and leave a message. It's invaluable to hear this feedback from someone who has tuned in to multiple Souders' interviews. I appreciate you.
I’m the same way! Amazing podcast and info
@@FrankCamachoTheCrank thank you brotha! stoked you listened
I'm an 'enthusiast,' as Shawn Williams would call it. I prefer not to compete. Yet train six days a week, and most of my training partners compete in competition.
I would put myself in your same basket. Although I've competed in the past, I'm enjoying focusing on improvement in the absence of competition currently. But I love helping teammates prepare for tournaments.
I like that term. I’ve also called us the “hardcore hobbyists.”
I love jiu jitsu, i used to compete and train 6 days a week but reality happens i have kids family ect, and other pursuits, i prefer 2 classes a week and hitting 2 open mats on the weekend. I still improve and keep from being burnt out this way.
Sounds like playing these type of "games" requires breaking down to foundational principles, would require coaches that actually understand the foundational principles of techniques
I work as a substitue teacher, and many times I have let the kids that I've worked with try BJJ.
I would have one standing and one on bottom, and just said: standing, get past the legs and pin, bottom, you want to stop the pass.
Go.
And all of a sudden in a matter of minutes they're solving problems and doing BJJ: knee cuts, half guards, underhooks, sweeps, etc.
Just playing around with that one instruction/goal in mind.
It's so cool.
Greg is a buddy and been implementing this approach with my kids program and it’s phenomenal and results driven. Kids are coming in the first day looking like they’ve had grappling experience with these task based games! Great questions and great podcast.
And it’s sooooo helpful for the kids because they start playing games from the beginning of class to the end. They are all having so much fun vs learning boring step by step “kata” techniques with short attention spans
I fucking love this man.
Beautiful conversation. Your questions were very specifics and well spoken ❤
Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and leave a message. I appreciate the kind words and will continue to research guests before bringing them on in hopes of keeping the questions specific.
GOLD.
Thank you for tuning in! Glad you enjoyed it.
Thank you for this great podcast. Many really good points and thoughts. I have recently jump down the rabbit hole of ecological learning and its application in grappling and I have similar thoughts and questions as you asked Greg. Thank you for that.
To the point of a los or win by someone who does illogical or ecological training means anything in terms of effectivenes. Lets look at the science of learning, lets look at the speed with which we develop skill with the 2 methoods/frameworks not individual events. I think one of the misunderstandings is that people think Ecological training claims that people get better than everybody else with this methodology. The claim, as I understand it, is that skill is develop faster. And there is a very important difference there.
I hope it makes sense.
Thank you for taking the time to listen to the episode and leave a message! I'm stoked it connected for you.
I'm a hobbyist, and I agree with Greg that you can't get very good on two days a week. I know this by experience lol.
Aint that the truth! Thanks for listening brotha.
I completely agree with this take as a hobbyist myself. I still don’t understand his frustration with it. It’s okay when students prioritize other aspects of life. Greg asks “do you want to be good at what you do?”
My answer is of course! But I have to be competent in things other than jiu jitsu to support my life. Not about stopping when I’m uncomfortable, but simply that I have other priorities.
@@714skate same dude. I also do other martial arts.
@@combatlearning preach!
Greg is giving Zoolander smolders this entire video.
ELO in bjj would be awesome! I was thinking of implementing it within my students, but honestly didn't start to look into the math and statitics of it.
For becoming a teacher maybe a combo of peak elo at some point in life + PE based skills (psychology, human development, physiology, nutrition etc).
Enjoyed listening. Thank you.
Absolutely, thanks for taking the time to check out the show!
Great interview. A lot better than that Rickson spaz.
Lol! Thank you for taking the time to tune back in. This was a fun one. I'll keep doing my best to put out exciting conversations.
It’s perfectly reasonable to say most jiu-jitsu practitioners are not smart and ignorant. Thankfully, neither you nor Greg are part of the majority.
Heidegerrian philosophy makes a comeback.
The money I would pay to get Greg Souders, Lachlan Giles, John Danaher, Gui Mendes, Mikey Musumeci, and Dima Murovanni in a room and discuss their jiu-jitsu philosophies. It would be invaluable.
Their debate takes place through their competitors on the mats.
@@thos1618 I didn't ask for a debate...
“Positional sparring with big words” was the perfect description.
So you're saying you didn't listen to what he had to say?
1:28:16 Ha. I told you! I knew if you dug in you'd get it. And Greg talked about things I hadn't heard him say. Stoked you chose to challenge your own ideas and preconceived notions. Well done.
Hope you'll get Scott Sievewright on. He's doing this for striking and MMA so same thing from a different angle. Listed others already and I'm sure Greg can or did give you a list.
Thank you for listening brotha! It was a fun conversation. Tried to push back where appropriate but also listen. Listening is the most difficult part when you want to bark back. I'll aim to get Scott on as well. That could be a great conversation.
We don't need "new thinkers from the last 100 years" to do away with Cartesian dualism. This is just a rediscovering of very very old knowledge systems.
@raweriio3306 cool story. Has precisely nothing to do with anything I said though.
@KodiakCombat It's has everything to do with what is said at the timestamp you linked.
@raweriio3306 ah. My bad didn't remember him saying anything was new or whatever.
25:58 "everything is a sex toy if you're brave enough." 😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣
44:05 is some cooked shit.
Bro your brain broke at about the 1hr mark.
I think you thought "wow, this is actually how I've wanted to train this whole time" then your mind flooded with all sorts of hypothetical problems around implementation in your current gym culture.
I think the eco approach has a lot of positive attributes. I also think I did a poor job of pushing back in certain areas. For example, some elements need specific instruction (in my opinion), the same way that throwing a pitch or hitting a golf club have mechanical moments. But Greg has great points around emergent behavior which is a concept I'm now very interested in. I have a strong goal to become a better host, do better research, and push back with more confidence. But it's a work in progress. Thanks for taking the time to listen brotha.
@@MaynIdea Ah I see. I thought this was the best Souders interview to date and you did a great job.
It's going to be hard for anyone debate Greg on this topic. Anyone with equal knowledge to himself is going to be an advocate for, rather than against ED.
@@thos1618 Thank you brotha! Appreciate it. I'm glad this episode is connecting with people.
What dressing would pair best with this word salad.
@@Dpackie Seth's Own
Yeah but he didnt mention how great rickson is lmao
Nomenclature of discrete objects and motions is useful for analysis (coaches) but not for learning (student improvement). Naming things creates artificial barriers for good and for ill and might disrupt one's ability to naturally find the similarities between, for example, a number of arterial closure pathways including RNC, "fast choke", leg and arm triangles, guillotines, and even "front RNCs."
“Number of arterial closure pathways”
Do u always talk like this?
I'm excited to run through your episode with Greg. He had good things to say.
@@panterajiujitsu1 His podcast is great.
@@panterajiujitsu1 sorry bro I thought I was talking to adults, my b
@carreromartialarts in precise, accurate, and descriptive terminology. Rephrase it if you like with smaller words. But they key is the accuracy. RNC says nothing. You'd have to further explain it using similar description as Josh used.
Your goal should always be minimal words necessary to have that precision and accuracy.
Hope that helps.
"IT SOUNDS LIKE POSITIONAL SPARRING." CHRIS "BONES" BURNS
lol
Drillers are killers. Final answer. This interview was extremely off-putting to me, someone who has wrestled and practiced Jiu-Jitsu since I was 12. I'm 50.
All good. Be well. Thanks for tuning in and engaging.
@@MaynIdea unsubscribed, thumbs down. You have not yet learned what Jiu Jitsu is trying to teach you. GL on your journey, I hope you figure it out.
You're just bitter you wasted so much time relying on a cliche rhyme to inform your education and skill acquisition when the whole process could have been sped up immensely.
You're welcome to make an actual argument though. Instead of an appeal to tradition, special knowledge, and authority all in one.
If you unsubscribed over the presentation of something different, you're about as thin skinned and mentally weak as a person can be. Don't announce that publicly.
@@Dpackie 😂 what a tool
The man said, "final answer," So I guess we're done here.