Negative LP Gains & Split 2 Ranked Changes | Broken by Concept 198 | League Of Legends Podcast
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
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00:00 - 06:45 // End Of Split Game Quality Reduction + Trolls & AFK’s
06:45 - 16:43 // Nathan Mott Case Study + Understanding Character Building Arcs
16:43 - 25:13 // Split 2 Ranked Update + Understanding The Negative LP Gains
25:13 - 31:36 // Ranked Inflation Graph + Making Demotions Dynamic
31:36 - 44:37 // Return Of Master Tier Duo + Adding Another Rank Into Apex Tiers
44:37 - 01:19:32 // Skool Community Posts Break Down (What Helped People The Most?)
01:19:32 - 01:27:20 // Nathan’s Mailbag - Yash - Afraid To 3 Block
01:27:20 - 01:33:45 // Nathan’s Mailbag - Obsession - Just Advice
1:33:45 - 01:40:58 // Nathan’s Mailbag - Dale - Does The Student Teach The Teacher?
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Yeah I’ve had to deal with the end of split mindset as well. I’m so close to hitting my goal of diamond that I started to only care about LP which resulted in a fragile mental in game. Had to take a step back and remind myself the rank doesn’t matter and just play as normal and now I’m 2 games away from my goal. Gonna play my 3 block after work today and if I hit my goal I hit my goal. If not, I’m still proud of my progress this split especially considering my original goal was only emerald and I never really expected I’d get this far so quickly.
Good luck brother
rip that caffeine and go get it soldier
As someone who plays solo ADC I hate duoq, I hate playing against them and I hate playing with them.
playing ranked botlane is friendship delete queue
As a diamond soloqueue bot lane player, one of the things I was looking forward to while climbing to masters was not having to deal with duos anymore. This change is a bit disappointing.
same exact position. every duoq game is insanely low game quality for me. but people cope and say "how do you even know its duoq" ??? because i can see them in each others past games and in apps
Well let's say I want to play with my friends and because of that I'm smurfing instead of playing in my elo
It literally doesn't matter. The game in itself is still shit, you're just taking away the possibility for people of sharing with others.
Reason why in Korea and China they didn't implemented it is because those servers are extremely competitive and there it's actually abusable but also it has a lot of impact.
In western servers this doesn't really matter, sure it will happen sometimes and because of it you will lose but overall it's whatever.
15:00 yessss as an Ahri main once i stopped doing this I instantly skyrocketed in wr because before I was trying to play to a champions strengths that didnt even exist
I love your guy's approach to developing a certain mindset to tackle the challenges of the rift I believe it's not touched upon enough and it is so powerful
we went from idea of disabling it across all ranks to enabling in master+
this is probably the worst decision of all time, that was main reason for me to even hit master since duos ruins this shit all the time
not only because of being boosted but because these people don't care about team and most of time playing only around their duo which ruins the game
at this point just delete flex que and enable 5s, fkn joke
This was my first impression. I've been pushing to remove duo queue from all tiers and move premade games to flex queue for years, and it was looking possible and now we get this? It's so depressing. And the worst part is that in the text before the Masters Duo changes they literally say "We care about the competitive integrity of the ladder", which gets immediately shafted by allowing more duo queues to exist, and the reason they give is to get streamers more content? It's such a joke
This is the point where I'm feeling the absolute shittiness of the 3 split system. It's so short that 1 bad 2 week period will prevent me from reaching my regular rank. I was hovering e4-e3 for 3 months, 1 bad streak and I'm just out of time to climb back to where I was even though I have a 70% winrate on the climb back up.
It's just too short
If Riot really wanted visual rank to match MMR they would literally just show people their MMR and have the visual slapped on top either at certain MMR tiers (like below 500 is iron, 500-1000 is bronze, etc) or with a dynamic system where each rank is a percentage of players. And let's be real, a public ranked ladder will never be good quality so obsessing over it is just going to cause people problems. League has no inhouse/PUG culture, however, so the public ranked ladder is all we have(For real, let's get inhouse culture going, it is the saving grace of eSports of old). One argument for having duo in the apex tiers/in master tier is that playing against better players is a really good way to learn a competitive game if you're taking it seriously/as a challenge with the maximum learning potential because those better players will exploit your weaknesses better. Mindset here is everything.
And on a side note, new players were being placed in Emerald too. It was rare, but there were a few times where I had brand new players playing their first ranked game in mid-high Emerald. These were players who had played normal games (Bronze-Silver MMR) too.
On the topic of Forfeiting. I have had the most comebacks in my league career the last 2 seasons. I always play it out. So many games can be won if you can scale or you can just wait for a mistake. The team with a lead gets complacent or you keep them in the game longer and they will fuck up.
I hear you about hating duos in your games as a soloq player. It's already horrible to queue up against a 3+ premade in normal games, because even if they may on an individual level perform worse than you, the level of coordination they have can make games extremely unfun especially when your team is not premade. Similarly, in soloq, I find that duoq players are extremely inflexible in their approach to the game. If it's a duo bot, you will 90% of the time see the support glue to their adc friend and refuse to ever leave their side even when they would have more impact on the game state by roaming or support the actual wincon of the game who happened to not be their adc friend, or a jungler who only ganks their premade laner when again their premade laner is not the wincon. I have seen this strategy work out on a few rare occasions, but a majority of the time it doesn't, because their usually top laner friend just doesn't know how to carry despite the jungler funneling all resources into them. As a mid laner, I also hate when the enemy jungler is premade with the enemy mid laner and they camp my ass just because it's their friend. It just feels like you're not allowed to play on a fair level because the enemy team is doing everything to specifically shut you down because you happened to verse their friend.
If you are versing enemy jg + mid duo and you are constantly falling to ganks, then its an indicator that you are not playing the game properly. Maybe you are not used to being penalized every time you make a mistake because when the jungler is a regular player he tends to not be heavily focused around your lane specifically. In a game where you play relatively well, you will make enemy jungler waste a lot of time and minimize (not nullify) their reward for ganking you
54:45 that is actually exactly my experience last season. On my main I got D1 and on my other accounts, I couldn't manage to get out of emerald. It was definitely a combination of playing on that second account mostly when I felt I wouldn't be able to perform at my best on my main, but also ego and bad mental. The mindset, of "I'm a d1 player, I can do whatever I want in this elo and still win" is what held me back in the end, ironic.
But what I mainly wanted to add; from the things this guy already listed, sleep is *by far* the most important factor from my experience. It's kind of unbelievable how much of a difference it can make for your gameplay. So much so that at the end of the season, I was struggling to get even one good night of sleep during December, it actually made me quit the game. I started playing again some time ago and I'm slowly getting back into the game, playing some games on my alts to regain muscle memory etc.
The biggest lesson I learned from this is that the worst way you can sabotage yourself, not just in league but in general, is by living a degen lifestyle e.g. inconsistent sleep schedule, not eating well and at weird times during the day, not moving enough etc. Everyone's heard about it a million times, but I'm sure there are many people like me who thought it's not as big of a deal as it actually is.
Really opened my eyes to how much this fucks with you for the first time.
EDIT: What I also feel I should add, by using alt accounts and 'only playing on your main when you can perform at 100%' you can potentially create more anxiety around playing on your main. I found that I was second guessing my self a lot of the time 'did I really sleep well enough today?' stuff like that. Obviously not a good sign when you're in queue and you should be mentally prepared to play a good game of league and instead you're worrying about stuff like this.
If they're going to bring back masters duos, there should be a way of seeing who is a duo on your team from champ select, and on the enemy team from the loading screen. That's important information that you shouldn't need a third party program to find. If I'm playing ADC and I see my support is duo with our jungler I'm going to want to pick a very safe laner because I know I'm being abandoned in lane often, especially if the enemy duo is bot lane.
I will you would have talked about the item changes as well but maybe that's for an other episode but I'm very curious to hear your guys opinions about them
I find it a little interesting that duo Que when you’re speaking to your good clients is a total net negative and will 100 percent not net you lp. However when the duo ques are in your lobbies it’s suddenly an unfair competitive advantage that lessens competitive integrity. It cannot be both at once. Either duo quing will make you worse at the game and you’ll decline in rank relying on a duo to make decisions for you, or it’s a massive advantage ruins the quality of games shifting in the favor of the duo.
What you say makes no sense. It's basically the same as someone who reaches idk master playing Katarina only. Being OTP a champ who can carry and can ignore how to play league properly is a big advantage but at the same time it's a disadvantage cuz yeah you are using the special tech to climb more but at the same time you aren't learning the game and that will end up backfiring, and duoq is the same. Duoq doesnt make you better at the game but it makes you climb more if you abuse it (many duoqueues dont abuse it more so they dont learn and they also dont even climb but even if they dont abuse it, it still hurts the competitive integrity cuz duoq existing hurts the mathmaking and how games are players cuz ppl gravitate towards their duo rather than the wincon quite often). If you play Ivern Rengar botlane you aren't becomming better but you climb, until you can't climb anymore because using special tech without learning the game has a cap, and whenever that happens, you will not be a good rengar/ivern player, just a good Rengar+Ivern botlane player. Am I explaining myself? You can inflate your elo X amount of LP by using that special techn but that will only get you so far, and in reality you will not be able to reach that place again if the tech gets fixed or you stop abusing it, because you don't really belong there. And yes, being OTP is to some extent the same, but the difference is that most OTPs abuse the fact that there are less variables to learn cuz they have chap mastery to then learn the game, but if you are OTP katarina and never learn how to manage waves, your ranking is tied to Katarina being good enough. I hope I explained myself good enough, but yeah I understand the confusion and it's not what you mean
Their claim is that duo queuing can lead to advantages in your LP gains in the short term, but it caps out and inhibits your long term improvement as a player. It is both unfair to fight against a duo, while also not the best thing to do if your goal is to improve and reach new heights in your ranked journey.
If you want to go from E1 to D4 a month before a split ends, that's a logical decision. If you want to one day reach Masters, maybe not so much in the context of that goal in particular.
And you can certainly improve while playing with a duo and/or at least maintain your rank. When I used to duo with a friend we were actively climbing through plat many seasons ago and plateau'd at P1. I duo with them for fun on occasion now and we're often stuck at around E1/D4 for the last couple of splits. And that's considering that they don't play with the intention of improving to a specific rank any more these days, but just as a way to pass time.
The fluid LP system should solve a lot of inaccuracies in the current system. In the current system the order of your wins and losses can cause 50-100LP swings either way just by the timing.
Lets say you're Plat 1: 0LP, and you go 1 win 2 losses in a three block.
You can end up being plat 1 0 LP again because you start on the win then go back to 0LP.
You can also be plat 2 50LP by losing first, and getting the -50 demotion.
So that's a 50LP variance in just a single 3-block. In this system there will be people who end up getting lucky more often than not and those who get unlucky more often than not.
So you end up with 2 people who start on the same LP with the same MMR and the same win/loss ratio. Except they end up 200+ LP apart by sheer luck of the draw. This has been the single most frustrating thing about the current LP system to me. Fluid LP should smooth this out and prevent people from getting too lucky or unlucky.
I fucking HATED the LP system this ranked season. It's so fucking retarded, why the HELL would I lose 50lp off the rip, having to play 4 GAMES that you'll have to win back to back to get back where you were. It's illogical, idk what the fuck they thought they were doing but it's incredibly retarded. It's there to force you to play more because otherwise the shell of the game doesn't offer enough enrichment to keep you playing. They took their notes with Activision ig with boredzone
yoo sponsored episode! congrats guys, happy for you!
As someone who hasnt been able to duo with my brother bc of "master mmr" when im d4 with 3 games i really needed this duo change. Im so sick of being forced to smurf the games arent even fun
Can someone link me to the part of the video where they talk about Gold rank and what makes it so challenging? If I find it I'll put it in my comment.
Worst thing about the split system is the the beginning and ending of each split completely fucks the game up and genuinely provides a bad experience. So it creates this weird 2 months on 2 months off situation
Having a superficial LP system might be more psychological, keeping people playing.
If you would see your true MMR, you would realize, that for the majority of players it only moves minimally throughout the season.
When you reset the LP rank, people can re-gain their rank - making them come back each season. So the LP simulates progress, while your MMR is always the same.
gotta love the parnellyx mention
First time i've been this fast. Peak podcast
Same
real
I think the streaming thing is maybe that you're aware people are or could be watching so you approach the game differently/ don't autopilot.
intensity is something some people have naturally.
your friend that’s just slightly better than everyone normally, but when he locks in he can’t lose.
playing with intensity is locking in for the first 3 minutes
some players lock in after a death.
MOST players lock in immediately if their team gives first blood lvl1
i take a 5 min break as well sometimes longer go smoke sum tree n come bacc refreshed cuz i cant just jump into a match immediately, i have to take in the match (like breathing) emotionally and kinda digest the game then play another game
You know what would stop the duo queue problem? Adding voice chat to the game. Its ridiculous that were unable to communicate with our teammates in such a complicated multiplayer game.
Yes for the love of God, plz bring back mmr 22:06 I’ve wanted that ever since they removed it.
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The -25, -50, -75. Is better than the hard -50 which just feels awful if you had a string of bad games but it's still so much worse than just having a fluid system.
You guys were right on the money about gameifyng the system. It's all about controlling the feeling of rank instead of having a more useful system it's about having the more addictive system.
watching them treat pyrhha nikos like a normal name was so funny ngl
It boils down to league being a strategy game. Not a fighting game. That's the best, most concise description. You guys already know that. You describe as such all the time!
I hope masters duo ruins ranked so they just take it back ASAP
Re: Hidden MMR. As far as I understand a lot of this has to do with smurfs and boosters. When a high skilled player starts a new account, Riot wants to quickly increase their MMR to keep them from just stomping low elo players. But if you quickly boosted their rank then they could quickly sell the account. A purchaser doesn't want a gold account with diamond MMR. A purchaser wants a diamond account with diamond+ MMR. I won't go further but there are other nuances along similar lines for their reasoning.
So they want the boosters to "ruin" more games just so they make less money? Sounds like a weird and bad way of solving the problem ngl, even tho maybe it's actually better than public MMR
@@BlackBurnBear The volume question is an interesting one. The point of quickly increasing the MMR is a way to stop games from being ruined. But say its a GM level player. Is it better that it takes 25 games of beating gold/plat/emerald players to get the account to D4 or that they play 10 games in gold/plat/emerald and then 50 games in diamond to get the account to D4? In the final stretch they may be playing high diamond or even low Masters MMR, so even though its technically more games of smurfing the games are still much more fair.
Then you have to factor in deterrence. If the 60 games is too much work for a lot of players then they won't even engage in this process, but if its only 25 you may encourage more players to do this and hence actually increase the number of games with smurfs.
But its all a bit moot because Riot has said they are working on technology to detect this and ban the accounts.
Additionally you need to consider how games get ruined after an account is sold. Its not just the smurf who ruins games, the low elo player who buys the account then ruins more games until the MMR drops back down.
Its not hard to realize that making it easy to boost and sell an account just ruins the ladder period.
The duo changes in Masters suck so hard, hope they go back on that one.
Time to lock in
idk I really enjoy playing with people who really care and, when I found someone I want to play, I'd wish to play with them. It's not my fault I am masters
I understand your point and that's why even tho for me no duoqueue is better I am willing to accept that maybe it's better for the game in general to have it, however idk you can't ignore how much duoqueue fucks both teams in general at making it a fair game (I mean most duoqs abuse to get eloinflated and that nobody will play the game as intended because there is people who has more influence in the outcome of the game and other weird dynamics that are kinda shitty)
I've played two games on LAN and my account is Plat 1 30LP after going 1-1, still in placements. My first game was average Emerald 2 ELO, My second game was average Gold 2 ELO.
My understanding of placements is that you get placed after your first game, and you don't lose LP until your placements are done, so you can only go up from your initial placement within those first five games.
I can only assume this means they dropped my MMR by an entire two divisions after my first team inted the living hell out of me which is how I ended up in a lobby full of Gold 3/4 players on an account that's Plat 1.
Also, every single person on my team in game 2 was lower rank than their lane counterpart...presumably because it was using my account as a counter weight to bring their rating up to the average of the other team.
They do not have this stuff figured out at all lmfao. Something is 100% wrong.
PS: I leveled the account playing ARAMs...and most of my ARAM lobbies had Challenger players in them. ( I know ARAM is separate MMR but still...just a pretty wild experience in and of itself. )
If you only played arams, the mmr system is probably super confused on you, is my guess. It will even itself out after a few dozen games
I hate duo because it makes my flex queue take too long.
Still think flex should allow 4man queue + add voice chat and make soloq pure solo so it can stay as the shit hole it is.
The reason why 4 man isnt allowed in flex it's cuz then people can abuse being 4 to make the lonely player feel like shit, but I think the solution is easy
PS: They should just delete flex queue or make it like in the old times when it was a 5v5 always. Flex queue feels miserable to play if you arent 3 or 5 premade, and 99% people in that ladder are either playing to warm up, to troll or to abuse the dynamic of the queue to get a fake ranking. Flex queue is legit the most cancer queue in the game currently. I am masters soloq and can't win in silver flex queue when playing with a friend cuz matchmaking sucks, but then I play with same person in soloq with a smurf acc and I get them to emerald easy. Like legit I am biggest flexq hater in the world. I see no good in that queue. Make it 5 man stack exclusively. Even giving the option to duos and trios feels bad IMO cuz the duos in flexq will feel miserable cuz number disadvantage in their own team.
More blatant cheating end of split too. Lots of people abusing the lobby bug where you can see the enemy team to ban OTPs and tons of end of season boosting.
You can't see the enemy. I know it because I am an user of lobby revelaing techniques since day 1 cuz it's easy to program, and I can confirm that the server never sends you the info on who is in the enemy team of a lobby. You can see your teammates, and that's all.
curtis on his lulu arc talkin about "I reccomend skipping!"
I think talking your gameplay through does help I'll want to make some crazy plays but then I hear myself "I'm gonna dive this Ahri, flash dodge her e, then ult out" then you realize how unrealistic that is
I can confirm I am absolutely losing my mind trying to hit D4 😂
🐐 🐐
Remove duoq from the game. Keep the competitive integrity and prestige of having to climb the ladder alone
There doesn't need to be another rank in masters+
Masters just need to become masters again and not this inflated diamondhole that it is now.
1:27:25
Remove duo all together. That’s why they have flex.
FACTS
:b saying no to plays mentioned!
Hello guys, I’m 1 min inside the video so i don’t know if my question is already answered in this video but, I’m trying to climb to challenger for the first time and i got really close (50 points away) but I’m getting 18-19 lp and loosing 20-22, is that normal for challenger or i need to get better and fix my mmr?
Duoq just ruins games. I don't care if you can't duo with your friend, it's called solo queue. If you want to play with friends play flex, aram, arena or normals.
duo q is only unfair bc the game refuses to enable voice coms
No. Duoq is unfair by nature. You are making a solo player in midlane face a middlaner who will have his jungler/supp to back him up as often as possible, for example (if the duo decide to play together, cuz some duos are more of "lets play consistent and we control more overall even tho we dont abuse the duo to stomp"), and also that makes it so if the duo in your own team wants to fuck you up, they have more leverage, and the idk midlaner duoqueueing with a toplaner will roam top more than bot cuz haha we are duo even if the wincon is botlane, etc. What makes duoq worse is the fact that it creates bad dynamics. People don't play as they have to play. And as I said, it's not always like that, but yeah, usually duos are bad for both teams and yeah in the end of the day you will climb if you play good, but duoqueueing is lowkey using tech to make the journey easier fucking both your and other's experience of what soloqueue should be in theory (maybe riot diagrees about me syaing what soloqueue should be).
there's 22568 accounts in master in euw (this does not include gm and challenger players), surely there's a lot of competitive integrity with such an inflated number of players Clueless edit: 1230 master players in OCE and 9634 in NA
KR has similar numbers and there is no competitive integrity issue there
When i think of duo q i think of the cringe smurf l9 stuff
:D
I just grinded two season in a row to get to emerald all to be s*** on by Riot and placed in Gold 1 this season after my placements. I don't want to buy a new account or grind my current account just to be placed in higher elo. I was really looking forward to the better games but now I have to coin flip more lower elo matches and try really hard to carry.
The easiest solution is to just place where you were your last rank or place you where if you win your 5 games you're at the exact rank last season. I'm in awe that I just went from emerald twice in a row to gold 1. Wtf is wrong with Riot.
Even if you did buy a new account wouldn’t you still have to grind up through gold? No way new account gets placed in plat or above. Also popular opinion is that emerald the worst elo to climb out of, so enjoy the “easy” climb back up 😬
This is peak. Kinda like seeing t1 fans get humbled by actually being forced to accept knight is good
ff culture is terrible rn. Nobody ff;s. its a waste of time like 90% of the time.
Its facinating what both of you are willing to say in a video just to put out content. Do continue though, it does have some comedic value.
Could you elaborate what parts specifically led to this comment? Would be interesting to hear it.
@@smappa849 This is such a BBC community reply to a hater, I love it haha
@@danielalbornoz3707 Getting into the details is not our mantra for nothing :D