It will not happen due to strength density requirement of turbochargers. The closes you could get is carbon-carbon, or carbon-ceramic, but shaping something that thing with consistent fiber packing would be the difficult part. These parts are more strength-focused than lightness-focused.
Appreciate your vids. Subscribed and just wandering about the clamp plate kit for the efr7163 aluminum CHRA. You sent me a part number which is indeed correct, but it is only for B2 housings. The efr7163 is a B1 housing and the part number you referenced is for a 5 bolt set up, where as the efr7163 is a 4 bolt set up. Any suggestions on a clamp plate kit for the efr7163 or as to why, with good, cause, no body offers a kit for the 4 bolt where as they offer one for the 5 bolt? Seems the aluminum is the issue here, not the size of the housing. Any and all answers and help in this regard are greatly appreciated. I should also let you know that I greatly appreciate your vids and info. We built a drag car that is is running low 4a and the knowledge you have presented helps along the way. cheers!
I have installed the IS38600 onto our development Golf7.5R and will be sharing some tuning videos on this soon. We have a bolt on Borg EFR7163 kit which we will then change over and show the results of aswell. This will be using the Stock VW Actuator/wastegate control - just to show that you do not have to use external wastegate to control these turbos.
@@cigmaian7139 We have done more tuning with some octane boost and increased ignition advance slightly and seen 260WKW and 457WNM already at the same boost, so there is PLENTY more room - after our lock down is over, we will install our Intercooler and complete the remainder of the rear section of the exhaust and then up the boost and push the turbo to its max and share this with everyone.
@@TurboDirectSA please do it soon! I'm comparing those 2 at the moment and that led me to this video💪🏽 out of those 2 what would you say is better for a street m20 bmw motor build? Only plan on running 8-12 psi looking to make no more than 300 whp but want boost response as if the car came from the factory with a turbo
@@vaugr1917 In these two options - the 7163 is without a doubt the better choice for so many reasons. The first is that the spool characteristics will be faster and smoother than the Garrett every day of the week - the EFR uses the T28 volute family housing, albeit with either Vband or T25 (both are larger ARs Turbine housing AR0.85) and the GTX uses the T3 family - secondly the weight of the EFR turbine head is 30-40% lighter than the Garrett. The technology in the wastegate control (GTX requires external gate = lag) and the internal 36mm swing valve design of the EFR is leagues ahead. The bearing system in the EFR is far superior, and the EFR uses an aluminium bearing housing (option) which has much larger cooling jackets integrated. he EFR runs at MUCH lower turbine RPM than the Garrett -- the EFR will make the power you want at the boost pressure you intend running, and lots more, when you turn up the heat later on.
@@TurboDirectSA Reference? Are you saying the former KKK company designed these? According to this BW document the design team under Brock Fraser of Asheville, NC USA developed the EFR line. It was named Advanced Aftermarket Products, also Advanced application development. www.turbos.borgwarner.com/files/pdf/BWTS_2013_Performance_Turbo_Catalog.pdf
I had a 7670 just this last year and it wouldn't even spool at idle(which really freaked me out), I think something was wrong with it. My rep tried to say "because the bearing is so much larger and the wheel is so light it doesnt have the inertia to spin".....basically it spooled a tad worse then the gtx3076 I had before it and transient response wasnt good. My first impression was not good.
Alexander Knight most definately something wrong there - there are ALOT of aspects of a custom build that have a direct and indirect effect on the spool characteristics of a turbo - these ill be doing videos on near the end of the year on one of our other project cars. Collector deisgns (hence the Swirl adapter we designed for the G7R platform) runner lengths, ID of the runners, intercooler setup, engines compression, cam timing, charge piping and and and --- the 7670 is a quick spooling turbo and should not be laggy at all -
@TurboDirect S.A - I would love to see a comparison video of the Newer EFR lineup looking at the 8474 compared to the 8374 and that range. Does it really spool the same but offer more flow? An overview of the compressor maps compared to the older. While these came out late last year there is not a ton of information on them. I am looking at the 8474 for an N54 so any insight would be great.
Hey Daniel, the 8374 we dont bring in anymore, and i doubt we will again as noone will choose this over the black series 8474, if i had stock left, i would take the 8374 off the shelf and do the comparison for you - but according to the spec sheet the housings and rotating assembly dimensions are the same size but the aero design changes have improved flow considerably, which is precisely where the gains are - i do not believe that the turbo will spool later than the 8374 but the flow increase is obvious and substantial - making this the best choice turbocharger in its power and family size range by far!
There's a hell of a lot more to consider than just the weight of the turbine when purchasing a turbo. It also helps to do direct comparisons of equivalent products. Otherwise a very informative video
The channel has plenty videos on side by side comparisons between the Borg range aswell as Borg versus Garrett - alot more info carried across including the weight (the most important factor of them all) of the turbine wheel.
Ill try get a video made of this today if possible. Unfortunately our country is on full lock down from Thursday - we have massive preperaitons to do before then.
@@Trevdog2392 The G25 size for size is not a direct competitor, the GTX30 shaft is a direct competitor based on inducer and exducer sizes. The G25 shaft is more based directly against the EFR6258, which will weight in around 60% of the weight of the G25 shaft -
@@TurboDirectSA the g-series turbos flow much better for the same size though. I don't think the inducer and exducer diameters tell the whole story here. look how much more the g25 wheels flow than the comparable g28. they made some big advancements with these
@@Trevdog2392 Accoring to the compressor maps the G25's compressor flows more, but the comparison was between the inducer and exducer size of the turbine wheel - based on the family turbochargers apples with apples (size for size) to be honest the G-series turbochargers do not flow more than the GTX Gen2 series compressors - the noticeable difference is on the turbine side purely based on the one less blade which alleviates backpressure. Look carefully at the compressor maps, they do not marry up to the lb/min flow rates - In this case the EFR is a much better product, spool versus outright power delivery, linear response, and the reliability is unmatched. The Ball bearing cartridge in the EFR is on another level. Garrett are yet to change their design from the 80's.
EFR-7163 FTW!!!!!!! I love my turbo.
EFR series is a winner - !
Awesome videos!
Please keep them up! You guys are the best!
Thank you!
We'll really see some crazy performance gains when turbo components are made from carbon fiber......it gonna be madness!!
It will not happen due to strength density requirement of turbochargers. The closes you could get is carbon-carbon, or carbon-ceramic, but shaping something that thing with consistent fiber packing would be the difficult part. These parts are more strength-focused than lightness-focused.
I think it would be more interesting to see the EFR7163 compressor weight against the GTX2971R & GTK-550!
GTX2971 will be a close match to the EFR im sure - probably slightly heavier due to the design
@@TurboDirectSA I'm sure there will be a very little difference or no difference at all! It's easy to compare against older design...
How does gtx2960 compare to gtx2860?
@@dennisrobinson8008 Same compressor, larger (older) GT3071R turbine stage.
gtk-550 is verryyyyy old, and no doubt very heavy
Appreciate your vids. Subscribed and just wandering about the clamp plate kit for the efr7163 aluminum CHRA. You sent me a part number which is indeed correct, but it is only for B2 housings. The efr7163 is a B1 housing and the part number you referenced is for a 5 bolt set up, where as the efr7163 is a 4 bolt set up.
Any suggestions on a clamp plate kit for the efr7163 or as to why, with good, cause, no body offers a kit for the 4 bolt where as they offer one for the 5 bolt? Seems the aluminum is the issue here, not the size of the housing.
Any and all answers and help in this regard are greatly appreciated.
I should also let you know that I greatly appreciate your vids and info. We built a drag car that is is running low 4a and the knowledge you have presented helps along the way.
cheers!
I still want to see a comparison between the EFR and Hybrid IS38 700Hp.
I have installed the IS38600 onto our development Golf7.5R and will be sharing some tuning videos on this soon. We have a bolt on Borg EFR7163 kit which we will then change over and show the results of aswell. This will be using the Stock VW Actuator/wastegate control - just to show that you do not have to use external wastegate to control these turbos.
@@TurboDirectSA lovely can't wait for the results.
@@cigmaian7139 ua-cam.com/video/o9NM5lTCisc/v-deo.html
@@TurboDirectSA it will be really nice to see some 100-200 times and 1/4. For the mods and low boost Dyno results are ok, there it's room for more.
@@cigmaian7139 We have done more tuning with some octane boost and increased ignition advance slightly and seen 260WKW and 457WNM already at the same boost, so there is PLENTY more room - after our lock down is over, we will install our Intercooler and complete the remainder of the rear section of the exhaust and then up the boost and push the turbo to its max and share this with everyone.
Hi, Can you compare the difference between EFR7163 and gtx3071r gen2?
Yes sir - great suggestion - it will be coming up soon.
@@TurboDirectSA please do it soon! I'm comparing those 2 at the moment and that led me to this video💪🏽 out of those 2 what would you say is better for a street m20 bmw motor build? Only plan on running 8-12 psi looking to make no more than 300 whp but want boost response as if the car came from the factory with a turbo
@@vaugr1917 In these two options - the 7163 is without a doubt the better choice for so many reasons. The first is that the spool characteristics will be faster and smoother than the Garrett every day of the week - the EFR uses the T28 volute family housing, albeit with either Vband or T25 (both are larger ARs Turbine housing AR0.85) and the GTX uses the T3 family - secondly the weight of the EFR turbine head is 30-40% lighter than the Garrett. The technology in the wastegate control (GTX requires external gate = lag) and the internal 36mm swing valve design of the EFR is leagues ahead. The bearing system in the EFR is far superior, and the EFR uses an aluminium bearing housing (option) which has much larger cooling jackets integrated. he EFR runs at MUCH lower turbine RPM than the Garrett -- the EFR will make the power you want at the boost pressure you intend running, and lots more, when you turn up the heat later on.
Americans will be “how many inches and how many lbs?”. 😂😂😂😂😂
thumbs up for your video. It is superbly informational.
Thank you for the compliment glad you enjoy the content
TurboDirect S.A it is very informational, I hope other people will use the knowledge that I shared .
Real Americans are like “We designed and made these. You’re welcome!”
@@ramjet7089 Indeed - but in this case you can thank the Germans for that.
@@TurboDirectSA Reference? Are you saying the former KKK company
designed these? According to this BW document the design team under Brock Fraser of Asheville, NC USA developed the EFR line. It was named Advanced Aftermarket Products, also Advanced application development. www.turbos.borgwarner.com/files/pdf/BWTS_2013_Performance_Turbo_Catalog.pdf
I had a 7670 just this last year and it wouldn't even spool at idle(which really freaked me out), I think something was wrong with it. My rep tried to say "because the bearing is so much larger and the wheel is so light it doesnt have the inertia to spin".....basically it spooled a tad worse then the gtx3076 I had before it and transient response wasnt good. My first impression was not good.
Alexander Knight most definately something wrong there - there are ALOT of aspects of a custom build that have a direct and indirect effect on the spool characteristics of a turbo - these ill be doing videos on near the end of the year on one of our other project cars. Collector deisgns (hence the Swirl adapter we designed for the G7R platform) runner lengths, ID of the runners, intercooler setup, engines compression, cam timing, charge piping and and and --- the 7670 is a quick spooling turbo and should not be laggy at all -
@TurboDirect S.A - I would
love to see a comparison video of the Newer EFR lineup looking at the 8474 compared
to the 8374 and that range. Does it really spool the same but offer more flow?
An overview of the compressor maps compared to the older. While these came out late
last year there is not a ton of information on them. I am looking at the 8474
for an N54 so any insight would be great.
Hey Daniel, the 8374 we dont bring in anymore, and i doubt we will again as noone will choose this over the black series 8474, if i had stock left, i would take the 8374 off the shelf and do the comparison for you - but according to the spec sheet the housings and rotating assembly dimensions are the same size but the aero design changes have improved flow considerably, which is precisely where the gains are - i do not believe that the turbo will spool later than the 8374 but the flow increase is obvious and substantial - making this the best choice turbocharger in its power and family size range by far!
There's a hell of a lot more to consider than just the weight of the turbine when purchasing a turbo. It also helps to do direct comparisons of equivalent products. Otherwise a very informative video
The channel has plenty videos on side by side comparisons between the Borg range aswell as Borg versus Garrett - alot more info carried across including the weight (the most important factor of them all) of the turbine wheel.
want to see a comparison to the G25, G30 turbine. with less blades and less material "thinner blades" . How do they compare?
Ill try get a video made of this today if possible. Unfortunately our country is on full lock down from Thursday - we have massive preperaitons to do before then.
@@TurboDirectSA I also would love to see the 7163 vs the g25-660 turbine. i think they are more of a direct competitor
@@Trevdog2392 The G25 size for size is not a direct competitor, the GTX30 shaft is a direct competitor based on inducer and exducer sizes. The G25 shaft is more based directly against the EFR6258, which will weight in around 60% of the weight of the G25 shaft -
@@TurboDirectSA the g-series turbos flow much better for the same size though. I don't think the inducer and exducer diameters tell the whole story here. look how much more the g25 wheels flow than the comparable g28. they made some big advancements with these
@@Trevdog2392 Accoring to the compressor maps the G25's compressor flows more, but the comparison was between the inducer and exducer size of the turbine wheel - based on the family turbochargers apples with apples (size for size)
to be honest the G-series turbochargers do not flow more than the GTX Gen2 series compressors - the noticeable difference is on the turbine side purely based on the one less blade which alleviates backpressure. Look carefully at the compressor maps, they do not marry up to the lb/min flow rates - In this case the EFR is a much better product, spool versus outright power delivery, linear response, and the reliability is unmatched. The Ball bearing cartridge in the EFR is on another level. Garrett are yet to change their design from the 80's.
Is It Just Me Or Does The EFR Turbine Also Not Look As Tall?