Underwater Ram Pump
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- Опубліковано 22 вер 2019
- This video shows that the ram pump can be used underwater. I wanted to find out how practical it was to run the pump underwater. Seems like the pump works well and is a little bit quieter.
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So glad you caught the siphon issue. Makes it an excellent comparison, great job!
Sir. My name is alararic tomambo i wish to buy from you one unit of your ram pump can you include the diagram spicification of all parts my phone no. Is 559 253 3378 I am from Fresno ca 93722 pls. Quote the price of your ram pump including the delivery. Thanks a lot.I need for my farm in the philippines.
He only half caught it. Yeah it took the back pressure to make it work, however, taking that hose up in the eves was still siphoning everything that was above the outlet of the hose. It did show us that there was enough lift to get water all the way up there once, but once some was coming down to the tub, there was still siphoning in the gallons per min formula. It was the same as if he would have just put the outlet of the hose in the tub without bothering with running through the rafters.
I'm impressed. You teach I learn. Thank you !!!
Thank you for watching! I have tons of other ram pump videos too!
Love the tests! I am very interested to see how much more flow or if any you get by submerging the pump 1 or 2 feet into the creek compared to mounting it just out of the water. Do you actually gain more head pressure or does the hydrostatic pressure of the water it's submerged in cancel out any extra head pressure?
Thanks for your great videos. I'm just wondering if the pressure tank has to be long and tubular. Maybe you could test with a more low-profile, but wider container. Same, or even mode air volume, but more compact. Also, is there an option of purchasing a few spares, e.g. valves, with your kit? While one can build their own unit, I like the way yours is standardized. Thanks.
Seth thanx as always. The differential in hammer side pressure is from submersion. Total head pressure/back pressure if raised will eventually, obviously reach neutral. The volumetrics of your system will obviously have a similar range/ratio of supply dump to lifted water.
The reason for the slightly less pressure underwater is that the height up the water level in the black tub is what determines the ' drop ' of your ram pump. You lost a foot of drop when the tub was full. Depending on the situation, it still might be a good thing just for noise reduction.
This is awesome. I was wondering the other day actually, if that would work. A basic search brought me here. Nice work, and thanks for taking the time. new sub! Cheers!
I guess I should have binge on your channel before asking questions!
Make a closed-loop system that can run continuously. You'd have to capture the water at the ram and cycle it to the delivery or to the input. If you can make one work, then you have achieved what they have been trying to do for years. I'd thought of different methods to do that, but always come back to creating a small volume pump that is powered off the ram pump. I'd like to see someone pull this off. It would revolutionize ram pumps.
I did the math on it, and seems you could almost double your run time, but eventually it will run dry.
If you lift the WHOLE operation off the ground you create another head of pressure between the bath tub and the ground. Perhaps you could use second head to run another ram pump or pelton wheel etc.
i think you were still siphoning
@haz8821 i agree with. Ther must be some siphoning happening, otherwise the lower head pressure should result in less volume
Good job and thanks for sharing with us.
The pressure of the water in the pond would restrict the output of the waste valve slightly, so that could be the reason why the flow rate was a bit less on the underwater test. However, pressure gauges like the one you have are measuring the difference between the pressure on the system and atmospheric pressure. The gauge being underwater means that there is actually more than atmospheric pressure on the outside of the gauge. It seems to me that this would be the reason why the gauge seems to read less output pressure when it's underwater. Maybe try placing the pressure gauge above the water later on in the output hose?
Great video! Very informative, cheers!
I think if the waste valve is submerge the pressure will increase, it means the lift will be higher. It is the same that you are putting additional weight to the waste valve.
@@maximoincognito4881 This makes sense to me as it relies on the velocity head to force the waste valve closed and then that stored momentum forces the other check valve open. More pressure on the outlet of the waste valve should result in more required velocity to shut it and this result in more volume being forced into the other valve.
I think it runs in the wrong direction, other vid shows the "watertower" first, then the valve, depend of die impuls...
There are a few different configurations for the pump.
The the waste Valve under water is pumping at a slower rate due to the extra resistance and pressure of being under water, it has less cycles per minute. In the Video, the ""out of water"" test started at 5:07, at 5:20 it had 15 cycles, miraculously the underwater test started at 7:07, at 7:20 it had 13 cycles. Additional pressure of being under water slowed down the cycle of the waste Gate, slower cycle, less pressure due too much back pressure escaping.
Nice experiment, thanks for sharing.
As a method of muffling the pump, this is excellent. Further the ‘spray’ is contained and therefore usable elsewhere. 👍
Thanks for your great explanations
Many thanks for sharing your knowledge, very much appreciated, God bless
Thank you for watching! I have really enjoyed making these ram pump videos!
@@LandtoHouse n
@@LandtoHouse no
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You answered my question.be blessed forever,you and your family.
Happy to help.
Great video.. very informative I have so many questions. I'll check your other videos for answers
Awesome! Thank you for watching. If you do have questions that I dont answer in the videos please feel free to send an email.
Great video. I have a comment and a question. First; I believe you are getting less water from the submerged pump because the head distance has been reduced by the depth of your pool. Question; I am curious to know if the submerged pump is sending a higher percentage of water through the outlet, due to the restriction on the waste valve. Did you happen to check this?
Good stuff.... keep it coming👍🏼. I do agree with the comment to raise psi gauge out of water. 💥And also put extension on the waste valve so it’s discharge is also out of water.
The delivery pipe was kinked just near to the pressure gauge which I think is why the delivery flow was similar despite the 25% reduced pressure. Interesting demo, thank you.
These videos are amazing! This is wizardry!!
Thanks for sharing this.
Who doesnt love ram pumps. Great video. I cant wait until you test the blader tank with an adjustable pressure. :-)
I have grown rather fond of these ram pumps haha. Yes I need to get the money to buy one of those. Probably going to be next year. I have several thousand $ worth of things ahead of the tank. haha
Try adding a snorkel on the swing valve to lessen the underwater pressure. By decreasing the the depth of pressure directly applied to the exit you will regain the loses you are seeing, perhaps. Love to see it tested.
Hi love the video. Could you put a bell housing over the check valve to stop the water preasure on the check valve?
Pretty good.I enjoyed watching.
Thank you!
Nice experience, this is what i'm looking for, Thanks sir
When I start working on my wetland pond and bog filter, I want to try to use a ram pump in the pond, flowing from the bog filter overflow, to the ram pump, and back into the bottom of the bog filter creating a small waterfall feature, and filtering the water. I'm wondering if the ram pump is deeper, say 4 feet underwater, how much more that might effect the flow.
Hi just started looking into this sort of pump 👍on your videos sorry if someone as already asked did it effect the amount of water used from the head
Good stuff Seth! I've often wondered about this concept. I don't want the noise of the flapper valve to attract nosy neighbors and I wonder if the immersion would help reduce wear on the flapper. I really appreciate you doing all of this experimentation. Happy New Year to you and Family!
Happy new year to you too! The sound of the pump does seem to be dampened some under the water. The sound of the drive pipe still has a noticeable thump.
SUPER AWESOME THANK YOU!!!
Have you tried building this linear ram pump? It works underwater too, and works great in a natural stream environment: ua-cam.com/video/vQym6x0PiCg/v-deo.html
I have seen that ram pump. It looks like it works but if that inner bladder has a leak or comes out the pump will stop. The ram pumps with pressure tank standing up do not have to have a bladder to operate. (although it does help)
Placing the pump in an open storage tank/trough is a great way to capture the waste water for storage like for watering stock before lifting the supply to an elevated tank to provide pressure for sprinklers.
Cows wouldnt let that thing last a day.
@@davidvickers8425 certainly not in this configuration but be a little creative.
@@AudaxK9Academy i would pipe the waste outlet to the tank on the other side of the fence it should be the same as running it under water if you dont go too high (same level as top of holding tank same pressure) or a bell/u siphon.
I am glad to see it will work under water. This could help muffle the sound. Especially if there is a noise of a water fall nearby would be good. A friend was concerned about the noise attracting marauders in the aftermath of an apocalypse. I will be able to tell him about your experiment.
Underwater does seem to help some with the sound. I have a feeling it could also help with freezing in the cold months. . . . I have actually received email from many people in parts of the world who have said they lose ram pumps from theft. The sound is an issue because it draws people in to see what is going on.
@@LandtoHouse Maybe a cammo and insulated box/cover over the pump assembly to obscure, and deaden the sound? Also black pipe or hose?
@@dgbasile this summer I hope to make a pump that is stealth and hidden. An insulated box is a must.
Salute your efforts.
Best wishes.
Thank you.
this design makes more sense than above ground ram pumps because the pressure of the water would help keep less air in the system so probably pump move volume/pressure.
..interesting it shows the same volume.
Nice to see someone test underwater as thats what I was planning.
I have a feeling that this works well with minimal underwater depth. If it were to go too far it would start to reduce the head pressure because the hydrostatic pressure increases.
Land to House
Connecting a stand pipe to the the waste valve to above water level should fix this?
Would need a long rod to prime the pump.
Adding that pipe would actually reduce the head pressure.
The velocity of the water in the drive pipe is directly related to the difference in water level between the source and the water level above the waste valve. As this system is effectively driven by kinetic energy less head difference = less velocity = less energy = less pressure. Also even though you put the pipe up to the top of that tower the work done was actually only the difference in level between the top surface of the source (your bucket) and the level of the end of your hose. Which is why there was not much of a difference in the volume of water pumped.
I thought that sound reduction would be a benefit of putting the ram pump underwater. But was disappointed that I didn't really hear a difference. Glad you explained that there was a difference in sound volume level.
Thanks a lot ❤️
Good Job, Appreciated
I am just wondering if we can apply this in pond filtration system or in RAS which serves as a return pump
This wiuld have worked well where I was feeding a fish pond and wanted to irrigate the hillside above the pond.
Hi
Can the pump be put underweater in a weater tank rasvoir under the house suplied with weater betwen now and then or not
Thankes
Great Job...Keep it coming
Thank you. I'm happy to know that you enjoyed the video.
awesome. genius.
thanks bro ... very nise job .. good work ... and i love you jobs ..
Thank yo for watching! This was a fun test and it showed some nice results.
That was good bro.... Well done
Thank you. It turned out well.
Great information ! really interesting .
You are awesome! Thanks for taking your time on doing this.
Happy to help. This summer I am looking to do more underwater tests.
Nice explanations
It makes sense to me that the submerged pump would produce lower pressure since the valve will close slower causing a slight loss in peak ram pressure.
I believe the reason the volume delivered by both situations is similar is because the average pressure generated while the output valve is open is limited by the work being done and both tests did the same work.
In this case it's essentially the difference in height between the pump and the open end of the hose that's being benchmarked. You would see a much greater difference if the output hose were long enough to present a significant resistance or if the height difference was great enough to hold the pump near its maximum output.
P S. Apologies for the necro
My observation is that the flowrate and pressure might be a bit lower but the bright side is that it negates the banging noise. Maybe a 1" or 2" submergence of the exhaust valve outlet will work just fine without compromising the overall efficiency.
just came across your video on ram pump underwater...looks like it works and the delivery almost similar... my question.. is there any effect if the depth of the whole pump unit varies underwater.. good experiment done.. tqvm
Great idea. I was concerned about noise from the pump bothering my neighbor / as the brook is by their house. Perhaps would be less in natural setting.
thanks& regards brother
Great job man!
Thank you. This one worked out well.
Good idea Paul. I was thinking in that experiment also. A question. Instead of wasting that water that came from the valve, can you connecto a hose a put it back to the basket? Just a idea.
Good experiment
Good luck
Good job my friend
The weight of the water when the tub is full reduces the pressure. The waste water has a more difficult time exiting the pipe so pressure going to the elevated pipe is less. Its like you put a vertical pipe in the waste valve, the taller the vertical pipe gets, the lower the pressure. The flow rate =Area of the pipe times the velocity of the water. 8 Lbs of pressure in not sufficient to change the velocity significantly since the water stops accelerating when the valve is closed (which it is half the time). Almost 100% of the flow rate will be determined by the vertical difference between the 5 gallon bucket and the top of the waste valve. If the waste valve is underwater then the flow rate will be determined by the difference between the top of the water and the 5 gallon bucket. You don't need the long sloping pipe. Just move the 5 gallon bucket next to the waste water pond and experiment with moving the bucket up and down. Good video! cheers!
Michael Edwards 😩😩
Michael, are you saying that the pressure of the water that is pressing on the waste valve makes a difference on the flow of the water and pressure of the water in the pipe that is pushing out of the pump (not the pipe that delivers water from the source).? if so, would the height of the bucket (source) opposed to the height of the water pushing back on the waste valve have any effect on the pressure of the pump? And if so, would more one way valves up the waste pipe mitigate any ill effects caused by back pressure on the waste valve, and if so, would you think that it could be possible that the waste water could then be pumped high enough be gravity fed back into the source bucket so that there is only water lost through evaporation and or consumption...... Hypothetically speaking?
So, if someone had an NFT garden system where the source water ( rain collection barrels) were at height point 0, water flowed to a ram pump at, say, height point -10 (down hill to the end of the NFT system), could the waste water be saved by having it pump up to just above the source level (say, height point 1) so that the NFT system flows back into the source bucket at point 0. This would then have the water pumped from point -10, and the waste water pumped from point -10 back into the NFT pipes at point 1 which then flows back to the source at point 0 and starts the flow all over again and eliminating the wasting of the waste water.......Hypothetically.
Hi Jeff, The energy the system uses is from the potential energy of the source. the longer and farther it falls, the more energy it has. A lot of energy is lost with friction of the water in the pipes and the efficiency of the check valves as well as the efficiency and size of the accumulation chamber. See ua-cam.com/users/mekanizmalar for a good explanation of this. You will never be able to recycle all of the waste water due to the Law of conservation of energy. A major source of energy loss in this system is the speed of the check valves closing and their size. See Bohumir Stehlik's youtube channel where he makes some very efficient valves for a ram pump from hardware store parts. Cheers!
Seems the hose will still siphon even though put the container up higher. Any time theres a flow with a drop down through a hose like that it will have a pull.
Does the size (length and/or diameter) of the pressure column tube make any difference? Example, if the tube were longer and a larger diameter would you get more pressure/output?
Bigger diameter of pipe=more volume, smaller pipe = more pressure?
In this instance since gravity fed, would this apply?
We’re seeking land along a river for our prototype off-grid Christian Retreat & Events center. With enough river frontage and drop, it looks like this concept would work for us. This is great information. Thank you!
Fun Fun and Fun, I am retired and have some freedom of schedule. Where are you looking to locate your ministry. I have had a vision for something like that for 30 years. God Bless and I hope it is the Lord's will for you guys! I'm in central Virginia.
@@clarencecarter960 we're in Central Arkansas near Searcy. We need to get creative due to the way real-estate prices have increased, especially since 2020. It would be nice to connect with you sometime and share visions. Blessings-Jeff
I would suspect the pressure difference to be related to the "obstruction" of the water o top of the flapper check valve. Or the weigt of that water working against the out flow.
The water in Test Pool exerts it’s own Pressure, so the Check Valve, doesn’t Create as much Pressure
using the Pool water pressure - to Keep the Output the Same.
I Wonder, what the Results would be when the Pool water Pressure exceeds the Downflow water pressure. Will the Check Valve still open and close ??
Submerge the Ram Pump a little bit is good, as I think the real benefit is the sound that is annoying for other people in the surrounding. Thank you for this exercise, I learned a lot from this. I subscribed to your channel, and will be seeing your other videos as well. Thank you, God bless you, and More power to you. 🙂
Buenas tardes apreciado amigo Felicitaciones es un buen proyecto por favor indicar el.ensamblaje pasó a paso mil gracias Ricardo Sto Dmngo Ecuador
I bought a 1 1/4 pump about a year ago and I'm finally installing it to help me pump water to a holding tank. however, I can't seem to get it to work so my question is how much head and/or how much height does the pump need for it to get it working...
Been there, done that. About 20 years ago I built a ram pump to pump water from my creek and two spring boxes which, like you, wouldn't work for me for longer than about 10 minutes. Scratched my head, spent three (3!) years (!) and $500 trying to get it to work. Then discovered in a book by Gene Lodgsdon (check his books out on Amazon) that you needed a ****MINIMUM**** of at least three (3) feet of head for it to work. I only had two (2) feet of head. Instead, I went and got a solar panel (30 watts) which I hooked up to a bilge pump and pumped the water out of the creek, up six (6) feet and gravity feed it into the raised bed garden. Wish I had the $500 back that I spent trying to get the ram pump to work.
Have you tried adding a spill pipe for extending the waste valve above the "pond" water level, to reduce the head volume of back - pressure from affecting the system ( internal PSI ?)
So it turns out that adding a pipe to the waste valve reduces the head pressure. The underwater pump has no real change.
Under ideal conditions of the water supply you could bury the system and put the pump under water to keep the system from freezing in the winter and run the system year round to water live stock and etc.
Yep.. works here.. Just need to bury 800 feet of delivery line now. :)
That is really good feedback! I have a number of people up in Canada that have very cold weather and could use this info.
I like the idea! Well worth giving a test.
@@LandtoHouse i have done lots of testing here.. other videos as well regarding cold weather: ua-cam.com/video/uRxuTOWz1JQ/v-deo.html
This pump is the key to how the Pyramids were built.All ancient structures are located near rivers with headflow.Thanks Seth,hydraulic tools next please powered by a ram.pump.
I have watched that video about the pyramids. Very interesting. There is likely a way to get the ram p ump pressure to work with some tools.
So cool
Thank you
Very nice...
Great video - very informative!
You mentioned you used this design in a cascading pond system, but that it wouldn't work in a lake. Why is this?
If I have my inlet pipe positioned at the water's surface, I would have a ~6' drop from the inlet to my ramp pump at the bottom. The only issue I see is the additional hydrostatic pressure that would have to be overcome in opening the waste valve.
The head pressure gain as you go down into the water is negated by the hydrostatic pressure in the same space. You could see this issue if you place a straw into a glass of water. It does not have flow going through it. It would be so awesome if the ram pump would work in a pond though.
@@LandtoHouse makes sense. I watched your video "Ram Pump for a Well and Aquaponics - Nope" which elaborated on the issue and ended up making it clear.
The ' drop ' you are counting on is the vertical distance from the water source to the height of the water on TOP of the exit valve (not the exit valve itself). for every inch of water on top of the exit valve, you have to subtract that. So in the case of the intake tube being in the same source of water as the ramp pump, the verticle height difference is 0. There is no advantage to having the pump submerged except for sound reduction.
Great Test that tells me it would also be possible to run a Ram Pump from a Watertank Underground. How would the Rampump act if the Inlet and outlet Valves would be farther away from the presurehead and Check valve can you make a test on that? That would be great.
Was wandering if u put pipe from bottom of pond with a float valve that opens up when the pond gets full and have that feed into the line on the dry side would that creat suction on that side to pull more water threw or would that just blow back into the pond
I love Ram because they are cool🎉🎉🎉
Great idea. Pls could you send to me the picture pattern and what kind size pipe pumps
Question: can you put a tube in a pond(like half way) and then the pump in the bottom of the pond and the setup works? maybe like that you can keep the water pressure, i don't know just trying here....
(sorry for my english)
I am super curious if you can daisy chain these together and go farther up hill then if you had used just one. Could you test two ram pumps one at the top of the hill directly from the hose and can you test directly from a gravity feed tank that gets feed by a ram pump at the bottom of the hill thanks.
Awesome! Will it work if we put the whole system in a pond and the pond becomes the input source itself? Have you tested it?
Thanks Seth, ive subscribed. I am working on setting my retirement home to run totally off-grid. Just wondering, i have a borehole that has to be pumped to draw water up and out. Borehole outlet and my house are at same height relative to each other and are about 5 - 6 metres above sea level. There is a gentle slope off down to sea level from near borehole. Can i have rampump at sealevel so that gravity drawn water siphons up to borehole surface then downhill to rampump to then keep my header tank topped up that is about 3 meters up from the ground next to my house? Water runoff is not a problem, the new creek created could then be used to water crops.
Mark...! Why don't you just try it out for yourself! looks like it will work (You did not mention how deep the well was! also as to how long the slope was!) One would have to have quite a slope to compensate the siphon-draw from the well...which would have to be primed first and fitted with a non-return valve...!
It sounds like you are describing a type of well. It may be possible to use the ram pump. However, ram pumps waste water every time the swing valve opens. This is not a problem when the water source is nearly unlimited. However, caution must be exercised to prevent drawing too much water from a well. If you are near the ocean, sea water can intrude into the aquifer if too much fresh water is removed from it. The inefficiency (wasting water) of the ram pump might make it less than ideal for this situation. Due to the use of a siphon, the head pressure supplying the ram pump will be measured from the top of the water column in the well to the location of the ram pump (not from ground level of the well). If the fresh water aquifer is significantly below ground level, you will not develop much head pressure.
Thanks for this - I'm just discovering the Ram Pump field. Would there be any benefit to putting 2 or 3 ram pumps in series to create a higher pressure pump? Your submersing the pump - say in a river would also add to the head pressure no....or does the added water pressure from doing so just put a back-pressure on the whole system? If one were to trench small deep pit beside the river/creek to drop the pump in - would that be beneficial to creating higher head pressure?
So in low head situations like mine where the drive pipe terminates at a pond, sounds like we could effectively get more head by sinking the ram pump and waste water valve outlet in the pond? I have thought about at least sinking the pump up to the waste water outlet - that should be OK since a sealed pump - this video might indicate that we might could go deeper.
Some versions of waste water valves have weights on the valve - wonder if water above the valve would have similar effect.
Add a pressure gauge to your pressure tank so that you can monitor the operating pressure of the underwater ram pump, I suspect it will be the same. Rig it like you did on the one next to the flume with a T under the pressure tank.
One reason to use this set up would be to contain the unused water and gravity pipe it to a lower elevation. I am curious how raising the height of container the pump is in would effect the volume and rise on the pressures end.
Hi nice to see and learn from it because we live near a pond, i think i can/need to build it under water and i was thinking to push the valve i should make a pipe above it with a stick in that i can push when it has to be bleed or how you call it. greetings from Sweden
Do keep in mind that sinking the ram pump into a pond does not increase head pressure. The water source needs to come from above the pond.
few ideas/questions
is it possible to add some archimedes screw power generators either along the input or output pipes? how effective would it be to harvest power with that? better on one end than the other?
for the “waste valve” would it be possible to make the dumped water flow in reverse towards the input with a valve to seal it. it would most likely be a sloped pipe with a valve at/near where it joins the input pipe. as for accessing the “waste valve” maybe have a rod that sticks out, connected to the center of the valve door. then you can press the rod down to prime it. the rod should “jump” on its own when it cycles normally.
My humble request for you, is to do similar content, but with an added conservancy of water. Think as if you are in a desert where captured harvest water is precious. Recycling water and multitasking it along its path. Also a stand pipe decreases the loss of hammer energy from the supply line.
so if you fill your bucket from a river to ram pump it up an embankment to a tank say 100ft above river how often do you gotta fill the 5 gallon bucket at what length of drive line to accomplish this ... i realize just using the river for the pump would increase the yeild/ flow rate but i wanna know for the 2ft high drop of a 5gallon at full fill and do ya got 10 ft of pvc before ram or 20? because that's what i think would need to change to longer to accomplish with bottom of bucket being at river height then you could fill bucket by hand from another 5gallon
The difference in air pressure compared to water pressure shows the difference in the pressure readings.
The water submersion also cushioned the system so the noise was reduced.
Great test Man....but can we make it start automatically without hand start. I don't need to be their when it is raining.It should start by its self & full the tank....any better Idea?..
what if you had it in the bottom of a 10ft rain collection tank. Would the pressure created from being under 10ft of water be enough to feed it?
Thank you for sharing, my full support, I do have channel, but silly..
I have learned A lot..thanks
At the end of your supply line, can u shut it off and on and it will still flow, or do u need a constant flow to keep the pump working?
Muito bom seu carneiro hidráulico!
👍👍👍
🤣
Thank you! It is my passion to test these pumps.
makes sense the density of water being much greater than air when level is raised and when you fill tank you effectively reduce the elevation head and thus pressure, what would be interesting to know is (and perhaps you have done this elsewhere) what is the minimum elevation head you need to make your pump function and what configurations make that more efficient, for instance if you used a plastic check valve instead of metal I suspect you sacrifice lifespan, but takes less energy to open and close hence more efficient operation but doesn't last as long.
Have you considered diverting some of the flow to a outdoor shower?
You could connect it to copper pipe and use a fire pit to hear the water.
No electricity required ...nearly endless hot water
Hi, how about if you only have a horizontal flow of irrigation water can it work? And can i ditch the drive pipe just open the "supposed to be drive pipe" facing the flow of the irrigation water?