They keep going for bigger beasts, here's hoping they do the Garratt next! 😂 By they, i meant the rebuild project... but it would be grand to see Hornby have a bash at one too!
So the black looking thing which you said should rotate is something called Lentz rotary valve gear which 2001 was originally fitted with. From April 1938 2001 and 2002 had Walschaerts valve gear fitted and the rest of the class followed. You could say Lentz Rotary valve gear was a pre development of what we know as British Caprotti Valve gear which number 71000 Duke of Gloucester has fitted which used cam shafts and popper valves and all complicated things. Excellent video really enjoyed it
This legend also got me into steam locomotives. Even tho I'm 13, I do a lot of researches about racing and automobile. This pandemic got me bored, and I randomly got his videos, and give me a new and second hobby
I tend to go for hornby railroad and then mod the hell out of them. Same goes for older models. There's nothing stopping you painting and glue on extra bits made from scratch in my opinion.
@SamsTrains I did the same this week having recently bought the Prince of Wales version. I painted all the small details and cab insides on the RR version and lined it using a fine lining pen (which I had already) and added nicer Fox decals and etched name and maker plates. probably about £40 in all. In fact I initially bought the RR version after seeing your review among others and I'm glad I did after trying out a couple of Hornby TTS sound chips,... never again. The Prince of wales actually has a visible wobble on the 3rd drivers which is pretty bad considering the new tooling and expense.
Garry King 2. P2s dont exist at the moment in real life but they are rebuilding one of the p2s streamlined and it will be finished in 4 years, sad were all scrapped.
When it comes down to it: Performance: 7/10 Detail: 8/10 Build quality 9/10 Character: 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999/10 Value for money: 7/10.
Great video as always! My non sound railways loco ran fine out of the box though. Anyway, you can tell I love it because I gave it the honour of starting the last video filmed on that railway. :)
Ah the P2 mikado! An interesting case of using a wheel arrangement meant for freight on passenger trains. They’re beautiful 3-cylinder mikados. Wonderful that they’re building two new mikados
Great vid. The side by side comparisons (on screen) work really well. I'd say the railroad version is best for those who are either happy with the lower detail or are confident enough to hand paint most of the missing detail. The only real difficult bits of detail (in my view) is enhancing the railroad lettering, and I'm sure there are waterside transfers available to add those in. Tender pickups shouldn't be all that difficult to add either.
Thanks a lot Edward - glad you liked that! I agree - if you have the skill, then Railroad locos are great projects! Yes that's true - I suppose you could add tender pick-ups too if you wanted! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hey Sam! I have recently ordered a A1 Flying Scotsman with the original tender she had in 1923, I reckon I will get this model next it has been on my list for a while.
I do like the idea of comparing the different variations of the Hornby range, especially the Railroad ones. However, when I was younger, going back to the food train video you did, I used to fill my wagons up with peanuts, Smarties, Chocolate buttons, Magic Stars, Skittles, whatever and that was really fun, especially when I had Thomas, Percy and the Jinty tank engines and the trucks to play with.
Very interesting, I've just purchased the railroad model for my conversion that I have been working on. Which if you're interested is the LNER P2 2003 Lord President. Interesting that the loco comes with quite a few details I'm quite amazed that I'll get the Cylinder Cocks, cab doors and footplate extra's, I'm very impressed.
Thanks a lot mate - that sounds very interesting, good luck with the conversion - yeah the detail for a Railroad loco is superb! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
A very comprehensive and honest review Sam...a very enjoyable watch. If you buy and run a locomotive, in 00 Gauge, then surely it's all about compromise. If the loco and stock look right at the distances that most of us view them, then surely that should be enough to allow the operator to enjoy the spectacle. Perhaps too much emphasis is being placed on details, that your eye just cannot detect when the trains are running. If the detail is that important and the locos are kept in a display cabinet, then do away with the motors etc, and this will greatly reduce both the cost of production, and more importantly the cost of purchase....Regards....Bob
Excellent in-depth information on the many things which constitute the Hornby Railroad Class P2 and the Hornby Railways version of the same Loco. In your Jan. 2022 UA-cam you pointed out the drive motor might be a 3-pole - or might be a 5-pole and I have a reply from Hornby (Glen, I think it is) who said mine (the detailed boxed one) will be a 5-pole motor. Excellent - I sha'n't have to dismantle it and run the risk of damage to the screw heads &c., to find out. However the tender in my super detailed boxed 2021 version has no pickups and therefore no interconnecting cables between Loco & Tender. The grab rails are separate and, I assume, wire - but are non-magnetic non-conductive because of being painted anyway - but I doubt they are plastic?
Don't forget the Hall and Duke of Gloucester: they're the same tooling in both ranges! I recently bought a railroad hall and was pretty impressed with it.
Hi mate! Ooh is that so? I didn't know the Duke of Gloucester appeared as a Railroad model? Did the Hall end up in the railways range too? I don't remember seeing those actually - but you might be right! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
They were so-called 'design clever' in the same sense as the P2: Great for Railroad, a bit naff for full-spec but the same tooling. The railroad edition of the hall, especially at hatton's current £57 price, is fantastic. My one is the recent BR Green edition - just need to add the black to the lining on the tender.
Hey, Sam! I recently found out that the last three driving axles for Prince of Wales arrived at Darlington within the past week or so, and orders have been placed for other components. The estimated completion date, subject to resources, is 2021.
The point is they were affordable to the masses, unlike today of Elitist Priced Product. IT is the pricing and low quality that is alienating everyone else who loves model toy trains. Which you highlight very well in your lovely videos - Thank you Sam for sharing
Sam this was a great video and extremely informative. The comparison mode really gives one food for thought. THANK you and keep up the good work. Also, love thr shirt!
The motor issue is a sad, sad display of Hornby incompetence these days. A popular model, without readily available spare motors? That's mental. Even Tornado and Flying Scotsman lack spare motors. Unacceptable when the motors die within a few overall hours...
I agree - I don't know why either! The only thing I have noticed is that it's many of the TTS locos that have had them.... maybe they think the sound will cover up the dreadful noise? Most likely, using a cheaper motor means they can increase perceived value for money on the TTS stuff... and make a better profit? Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great comparison sam! I was thinking about painting my railroad one but after seeing the super detailed one im not sur if i do want to paint my railroad p2 because i think there is an odd charm to it
Hi Sam. These locos had a rotary cam type valve gear. You are used to seeing Walscherts which has lots of moving parts. The valves on these were driven like a camshaft in a car, hence that block (gear box) and carden shafts leading to the valve chests. Nice to see a loco modeled with it for a change. The 'Duke of Gloucester' and certainly one Standard class 5 still have this system (British Caprotti), I believe that a few Black fives (one preserved) and 9F's were fitted with it as well. Nice video as always, thank you (I got the RailRoad version...)
Thanks a lot for the comment Douglas - yes I now know that you wouldn't see much movement in that system - but I still think it would have looked better if done in metal, rather than that flimsy plastic! Glad you enjoyed it anyway - and the Railroad version was easily the better runner straight out of the box! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I concur with it being metal, especially on the detail version, however they do tend to build to a price. I have had a good few problems with her staying on the road though. Unless it is a billiard table on the levels she jumps off at the drop of a hat. I have the same problem with my H class 0-4-4 and if I am running any of my 4-6-0's tender first. This only seems to affect my Hornby stock as my Bachmann C class 0-6-0's seem to ride over anything with no problems at all. Have you had any issues with the P2?
I would be happy to gave the railroad version, as I can always pick out my own hand painted details if need be. One can always purchase the tender pickups separately and fit them if absolutely necessary. And as I am more technically inclined I would move the TTS to the tender.
I've just bought a super detail version for £80 and was a bit apprehensive about it as I heard it wasn't very good but after seeing them compared, in my opinion the railroad one looks sickly and terrible without the painted details. I have hear of the motor issues but I have a Britannia engine left over so I can improve the reliability there but besides that i think I'm going to continue to detail it to the spec you would expect from a hornby railways model
Hi mate - I think £80 is far far more like it for the super detailed version - and your right, the Railroad one loses a lot of 'life' without the superior paintwork! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Good interesting video Sam. I often wonder what the difference between the two Hornby ranges are. Well presented too. I look forward to seeing more from you.
Thanks a lot Alan - to be fair, there's not much difference with these, but with others (the black 5 for instance), the difference is massive! Cheers, Sam :)
As well as the P2 I think the Duke of Gloucester and the Hall class had main Range and Railroad versions. I went for the full version of P2 but without sound. For me it was the lining that I wanted . The main version has the LNER black white black lining , while the Railroad version only has white , you can see that quite clearly on the tender and in the cab area. Have to say I’ve never had a problem with it , relatively smooth a quiet. The model comes from design clever period which is why they have three pole motors . Interestingly even the best Bachmann locos only ever have three pole motors . I really can’t tell the difference.
Hi Russell - yes I've heard that - I never realised those were in both ranges, but if they are then I stand corrected! Yeah definitely - I don't think it's very clever personally though ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam, many thanks for the mention. Yes it was a bitter disapointment how very low quality the motor was in this flag ship loco from Hornby, for me it marked the decline of a previously well trusted brand. Interested to hear that the Railroad one has a five pole motor from the start! are the fittings the same?
Hi Mike, no problem at all, I completely agree! I can't say for sure that the Railroad version has a 5-pole, because I haven't had it out - all I do know is that it runs 10 times better than my TTS one did! But yes, as far as I can see, the fittings were the same! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Also about the valve gear. I don't think at this current state that the valve gear would be able to be animated on the locos when you consider how small it is. It is a type of valve gear that looks similar to the coprotti equivalent (can't remember the name), and it consists of a pole that spins on an axis between piston and rotating axle. So getting that to work on a small model would be a bit impossible unless you were smart enough to make it work. But I agree a die-cast piece for the valve gear would be better then plastic.
Yeah I agree with you completely - even if they could animate it, it'd probably cost a bomb! Really I just don't like their choice to use unpainted plastic, it just looks and feels tacky to me! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The P2 is an absolute fantastic locomotive. I own a gloss finish of it. Even though it STILL has the same tooling as the railroad tooling. But, believe it or not, she still ran as smooth as the railroad version did. Great vid Sam ;)
Thank you for another informative video, please continue to produce more comparison videos. I am sure this helps the Modelers to make make a very informative choice.
Enjoyed the review more, having just received the TTS version, last Thursday, at a cost of £121. Do not know, what kind of motor it has, albeit, it creeps along, with no jerking.
That 'thing' that looks like a 'Westinghourse' is in fact an ACFI Feedwater Heater. Gresley was good friends with the great French engineer, André Chapelon, and having seen the massive increase in efficiency in the French engines, he decided to use it on 2001. Unfortunately, as British coal was rather superior to French 'bug dust', any savings fuel-wise were wiped out by maintenance costs. Also note that the Kylchap double chimney here modelled is again Chapelon influenced: 'Kylchap' being a contraction of the two designers - the Finnish Kylälä and the aforementioned Chapelon. Hope that helps. I would add that if anyone can make a working representation of Rotary Cam valve gear, it would be a miracle: I don't even think Fulgurex have done it (and i they made it, Cock o'the North would sell for £2000 or so!). Check Duke of Gloucester - did its work? (Yep I know - the LNE loco had Lentz valve gear and 'The Duke' Caprotti, but in model form they're pretty similar). The problem with Railroad model, livery-wise, is that it is simply 'not' in LNER livery. That requires the white edging around the washout plugs and other details. And of course missing the cylinder lining-out is also wrong. As to the lettering - that is a complete deal-breaker. Unshaded letters came in during the war - by which time the locos were in austerity black! PS The TTS chip is giving the sound of the P2 doing about 30mph when the model is doing 50+. Not good of Hornby...
Hi Sam, perhaps an update on your comparison video here. One main problem with the 3246 TTS is the poorer quality motor. I sold my Railroad model, as I really wanted the additional lining - body, wheels, etc - of the higher specification model. I had a slightly around the houses hunt for the replacement motor. The King X9108 is a straight drop in ... the one I received had a mid-grey brush/commutator cover end, and certainly was smooth and slow at the start, but was as anaemic as the stock-motored one for top end - not what I expected of the King motor. 'Revving' the motors with no resistance, they had the same pretty poor performance. I've noticed the best 5-pole skew-wound motors have a black can, and black/dark grey cover for the brushes/commutator. Just by looking alone, I guessed on the X6199 fitting - it 'looked right' - guessing dimensions, bush dimensions, and colours ... IT CERTAINLY IS!!! Top end is nearly on a par with the new streamlined Coronation - FAST!! Bottom end? Look at this!!! ua-cam.com/video/fGV_6sJo66I/v-deo.html I left it on a piece of flexitrack as you see, for 5' and it was faultless, with no interruptions or hiccups, and only reached halfway!! Yes, I've 'lightly smoked' over the top of the body, to take that false sheen off it as well - looks fantastic!! Alan.
Hi Alan - yes I've done lots of research into this too - in the end I found some amazing 5-pole replacements on Ebay from China for about £2 each - they seem to be all gone now, but do keep an eye on there - they're great for the money! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Hi Sam, that's interesting. Were they totally compatible? Mounting points? Skew wound? Bottom end torque - as indicated here, and top end revs? Alan.
@@SamsTrains Hi Sam, thanks for the reply. These 5-pole motors, did they require any chassis adjustments, or did you find 'options' which suited the several different 3-poles Hornby has? Were they 'skew wound', which presumably gives a smaller overlap between poles when the armature is rotating, permitting smoother slow operation? Alan.
Hello Sam its Michael F, just wanted to say i really loved your comparison video. I have the hornby railways P2 with the stock moder. Heres a good tip for it. what i found out when i first got it is that it never ever cuts out on bachmann HO points so if your p2 cuts out on points it runs really well over bachmann ho points
I love my sound P2, one problem though if you have the tiniest bump in the track the front bogie comes off. My ones Motor is perfect, it’s very strong and pulls all of my coaches. Using my digitrax controller it’s slow speed is amazing!
I think. It may sounds stupid. Butt I think that the TTS sound models are a little les detailed then the normal Railways Versions. I saw a video from Tony Wright. And I lookt at the P2 Review. And the Non TTS version had more detail. Suchs ass an removabel coal load, metal buffers and painted cab interior.
Hi mate - yes you're right - generally the first handful of TTS locos were far inferior to regular Railways models - though these days, their main range can usually be bought with tts though! Thanks a lot for the info. Sam :)
8:57 Quick question, if you wanted, could you paint/sharpie the railing with silver to make them stand out on the Railroad one, provided you had a steady hand? Great video as always. PS. I think--if I could afford either--that I'd go with the Railroad one and just paint on some extra detail! Very carefully of course. Cheers.
Hi Patrick - if you were skilled enough, you could completely transform both of these models - so if you can do it, then yes! Unfortunately, I'm not one of those people - but they are out there! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
14:40 damn.....the Railways P2 just dwarfs the railroad P2, even though they are the same size, the railroad variant looks a little smaller from that view.
I wonder if Hornby messed up and the 3 pole motor and plastic buffers should of been fitted to the railroad version as having those fitted to the Railway version really lets it down considering the nicer paint job it has.
I think I'm right in saying the BR Duke Of Gloucester is the same underlying tooling for both the Railroad and Railways versions. (It caused quite the stir at the time.)
Hi Oliver - you might be right - I didn't realise the Duke appeared in the railroad range, but if it did - then you will be right! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
the railroad one is much better with some grey and red paint and a thin brush u could recreate the painted detail like the railways one only worth it if u want dcc sound
Hello Sam, lovely video, thanks. Could you let me know if you can say what the minimum curve-radius the P2 will run on? and in the video there is a chicane clearly showing both locos managing it just fine at 22:30 into the video, what radius is that chicane" Cheers mate. :)
Saw these at a model event side by side and too be honest its the same loco just one has extra detail than the other. Its basically what you want from a model but for value i would choose the railroad edition everytime
Hi Sam, good comparison. Agree fully regarding the horrid plastic value gear and the lack of metal buffers. For a flag ship loco Hornby really messed up a few bits.
Good video Sam well produced liked it. I had the same problem with TTS version poor motor Mike of Mikes Videos told me which motor to have fitted never looked back.
Sam do you ever research if you model has been preserved Irl I just done my 03 and found out it never had a 03 number and was only d2388. It’s quite fun to do!
Sam, are both the Tenders the same moulding? The pick-ups should be available as a spare part and they could then be wired to the Loco pick-ups without using the silly little white plug. Martin. (Thailand)
Thanks Sam. I've been wondering how much difference there is between the two series. I think I will be focussing more on the mechanics for any future purchases.
Hi Sam back after I've had no Internet it's been a tough couple of weeks but nice video I always like to watch one of your vids when I wake up and when I've had no Internet for two weeks watching one of your latest videos cheers me right up I hope you can make more of the races loco against loco if so that would be great but yeah nice vid
Hi mate - blimey that does sound tough! Hope you really enjoyed this though! I like that idea - I'll definitely do more soon! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Just a couple of general questions....is it shown on the box whether a hornby loco is a railroad or railway version? And secondly what's the differrence between DCC ready and DCC fixed? Sorry, I'm a begginer in a foreign land.
Hi Sam. Just awaiting my (hopefully) bargain P2 railroad version from Amazon Germany in the warehouse sale - just puzzled as you say the railroad version has a 5 pole motor - but it says 3 pole on the Hornby website?
haha thanks Jonatan - I think that's pretty unacceptable too! I would assume that those models are at least decent quality though?? Thanks for watching, Sam :)
sam amazing video nice music and great camera skills too also, could you a review a BR black 5 because im thinking of getting one for my railway but i dont know how good they are. (:
Excellent review. 1. Hornby RailRoad Range for beginners and Hornby Railways for advanced modellers or 2. Hornby RailRoad Range for daily use and Hornby Railways for collectors or 3. Hornby RailRoad Range for people with a smaller budget and Hornby Railways for people with a larger budget and more differences, quality control not included, hehe
I have the same Hornby P2 locomotives, one of each range, both original motors. I believe they are 6 pole motors, not 3 pole motors. Both run slower and smoother than your DC or DCC re motored models. I use Zimo DCC decoders with storage capacitors. How about a video comparing your DC controller to a model with various makes of DCC decoders, with and without storage capacitors.
Thanks for sharing Terry - they can't be 6 pole, you'll only ever find an even number of poles in DC motors in order to avoid stalling! I've dismantled a P2 motor before - it was definitely 3 pole! The decoders could well cause an improvement to performance though! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Interesting about the 3 pole motor. Its been along time since I have pulled apart a 3 pole motor and counted cogs per revolution. I stand corrected. DC motors can have even number of poles, but typically for model railway motors they are odd numbers as per your experience. I have made a short video showing the improvement in slow speed control of the Hornby P2 using a Zimo decoder. ua-cam.com/video/t9q2IsIkj7s/v-deo.html
When I earned £22 a week back in 1979 an engine was £14-£32, Evening Star was £32.96 . So I could buy one every 2 weeks. NOW They have gone completely mad. Interestingly how do their prices compare to other manufacturers using CHINA like Rapido I wonder? Maybe a video there Sam.
All relative though, you wouldn't work for £22 a week these days. I agree that the pricing is nuts, especially for getting kids introduced to the hobby, I guess though they only need one set... It's when we get older we start to go overboard ;) lol 😂
Wow! Speaking of the P2s, I can’t wait for that new one to be completed! I think if they weren’t rebuilt, Cock O The North would probably have been preserved! In fact, 70% of the parts on the P2s are the same as Tornado, including the tender and the boiler!
Thanks Sam for this clip you made on these two locos not got a P2 yet but after watching your video has got me thinking''' weather i should buy one or not if i did i would get the rail road version, But my biggest annoyance is both these models are Hornby and Bachmann do not do a P2 or even a B12. But when it comes to diesel locos ie the class 37 both manufactures do the same model why is this i wonder? As you pointed out on both models they got that nasty plastic false driving rod which is a big put off. So now the P2 is not on my priority list at the moment i think quality doses really matter and after then two different motors has made my mind up even more. Sorry for the long message but once again you done a fab job.
Thanks Michael - glad you enjoyed it! Yeah that's a good point actually - they don't seem to tread on each-others toes where steam locos are concerned, but they do with diesels... maybe there's less to choose from? Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I'm considering getting back into model trains after watching your videos! They are really awesome! What scale engines are the ones you purchase? I use to like the bigger sized ones when I was a kid, but now I'm thinking the smaller sizes may work better with my living space. Thanks!
Sam'sTrains the valve gear on the P2 Railway and railroad version are a Camshaft Desing very much like the No.71000 BR standard 8, if Hornby made it work we as a customer could be paying £200 - £300 for a engine that has working camshaft valve gear wicth is too much for a engine and the TTS enigne's slowly going up in price likw the Digital sound close to £170+ for a TTS locomotive. I praid £160 for a 4-6-0 Black 5.
Thanks a lot for the info on that - I think it's fair enough that it doesn't work then, but still very crap that it's done in plastic ;D Yes you're right - the prices are still creeping up - when will they see that just increasing the prices and changing nothing else won't save them? Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The Valve gear would be nice of been metal or painted metal colour but I'm think of getting my P2 from the loft and check it if it has the same issue like your P2
Why do some Hornby models have the trailing truck (or pony truck) solid mounted to the frame and the wheel blinded? I was a little disappointed when I got my Mallard and saw that (keep in mind I was visiting London from the US when I picked it up). I've never seen it on any other model except for really simple tinplate O scale steamers from the 40s and 50s.
I don't know why they do that - sometimes they do, and sometimes they do them properly - it is strange and disappointing, I agree! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Question: are you going to the model train comvention at the SECC tomorrow? I'm going there and I'm going to see if I can get my hands on any second hand Thomas stuff
Hi sam. Really good to see you again, another cracking video. And i myself hvr these two. And i agree that i was supprised but the lack of "super detail" on the dcc loco. But have done a custom paint job on my railroad version which is quite nice. I dont know if you have but i have a locomotion gloss finish of the A3 flying Scotsman in BR green as it is now with support coach. I would love if one we could somehow do what you have done with this or other locos or simply review her. Let me know what you think. Cheers Matt
Thanks a lot Matt - I agree - someone earlier said that the Railways P2 is a Railroad loco pretending to be a Railways one - I think that's a really good way of looking at it! Ooh that sounds fantastic - I just can't get enough of those glossy finishes! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Am very surprised that the Railroad version outscores the digital version on a couple of details and that the motor in the digital version was substandard initially. I found the DCC sound rather irritating! I think I would stick with the Railroad version for these reasons and that I am on a budget too. Thanks for the review on a fine loco.
I suppose it was better value for money - and yes the early TTS was very irritating - distorted nasty audio - much better on modern releases though! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Ive the supper detailed NON DCC one and that came with the 5 pole flywheel motor ..... Ive not seen another one since either so i think mine must be a rare model and there also no tender pick ups
Hmmm, I seem to remember the non-tts ones did run better, maybe they did get 5 pole motors then?? Have you had the motor apart to check?? Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains last time I saw it was in February. I used to go once a month to visit it but obviously I can’t due to corona.the first time I saw it was in 2014 when it was just bare frames. The video of my last trip is on my channel. If you want to see it you’ll have to look at my first videos
EVERYONE IF YOU NEED A NEW MOTOR FOR YOUR P2 YOU WILL NEED THE HORNBY PART X9108 SLIGHTLY FILE DOWN THE FRONT AND IT SHOULD SNUGGLY FIT IN IT WILL COST ABOUT £20 SO YOU DONT HAVE TO WASTE £50 ON A TORNADO IT WORKS A DREAM I RECOMMEND IT
Sam'sTrains I just want to say how much I love your videos as they feel natural and relaxed which I don't always find when watching videos on model railways, thanks- James
haha absolutely - it's just beautiful isn't it?? :3 Some of them seem to yeah - sometimes you find that some motors have a 'better' direction - I'm not too sure why it is! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam, sorry you have to reply to a comment on a 2 year old video :D, but I've got a lot of questions. Obviously when you have a Scottish layout, you cannot leave a P2 out of the mix ay! First question is are hornsby still selling the dcc 1 with a 3 pole motor Second is if so can't I just transfer a 5 pole into it Third is will I be able to use dcc one on a dc layout Fourth is are they able to be transferred to screwlink couplings Fifth is are there any transfer packs to change the buffers to spring Thanks for your time, and once again sorry to ask all these questions on such an old video. Take care, Lewis
haha not at all! It's worth checking their website, but I don't think they have any more of these in stock. Yes you can change them for a 5 pole motor, though they are quite tricky to find. The TTS version will only work on DCC out of the box. Yes you could fit your own screwlink couplings. Not to my knowledge on the buffers, but with a bit of skill, it could be done! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I am very late to comment on this, but contrary to 5:01 ish, there is a way to get etched nameplates without buying that specific model. Silver Tay Models. on eBay make etched nameplates for just about every locomotive larger than a Jinty. for instance, I got a set of Scotsman plates for £3.50. they are remarkably well made. etched 1mm thick brass. would highly recommend. Also. 9:00. that isn't a Steam Chest. that is the Cylinder Cladding. the steam chest is on the top-opposite side of the cylinders going back to the steam inlet pipes.
No problem mate - many thanks for the info on this, yes I've been aware of such companies before - I'd like to try one! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains You're welcome for the info. any time. If you're looking to try one out, my personal recommendation (from experience) is Silver Tay Models. the amount of nameplates and smokebox door Head plates they have available is astounding. and the prices are, well... they aren't going to break the bank. not the cheapest, but the quality is superb. I think they also do some transfer replacement kits as well. but that was a while ago so, i'm not sure if they still make them now.
I've heard about Silver Tay,and probably I'll buy some nameplates if i can get a model for myself,but I'll never understand Hornby doing etched nameplates: what's the point of them if there's already a printed nameplate in the loco?
@@davidantoniocamposbarros7528 Because etched nameplates look more realistic and accurate to the prototype then a flat printed one. These models are designed for hobbyists and realistic layout builders alike, so they have to cater for both prices.
Many of these details I likely would've have noticed if they weren't pointed out to me. True, the lack of moving valve gear in either is a bit naff, but I think the Railroad model presented here just defines the kind of thing I'd be after. Good performance is preferable to high level of detail :).
The "little flaps", as you call them, that you say that you don't know what they're for, are cab doors which would, on the real thing, allow access and egress to the cab when opened and stop the crew falling out by mistake when closed. Of course, on the real thing there would be no gap between the doors and the tender, the doors blocking any space completely.
@@SamsTrains NPs Sam. As long as you know! Wasn't being particularly critical. It's just something that old, retired steam and model enthusiasts, rather than just young model enthusiasts, know.
I saw a photo of the 2001 and there is clearly colour around the front windows. If I'm going to pay for "super detailing" I would prefer it to be more accurate.
Yesterday I saw the new build P2 ‘Prince of Wales’ in Darlington shed. It will be complete in 3 years!!
Oh that's awesome - not too long to wait then!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Covid-19: "Allow us to introduce ourselves!"
All in all seriousness though, I would love to see the completed locomotive!
They keep going for bigger beasts, here's hoping they do the Garratt next! 😂
By they, i meant the rebuild project... but it would be grand to see Hornby have a bash at one too!
@@sinistregoth They are going for a Gresley V4 next, so smaller.
@@SamsTrains quite a bit longer to wait
So the black looking thing which you said should rotate is something called Lentz rotary valve gear which 2001 was originally fitted with. From April 1938 2001 and 2002 had Walschaerts valve gear fitted and the rest of the class followed. You could say Lentz Rotary valve gear was a pre development of what we know as British Caprotti Valve gear which number 71000 Duke of Gloucester has fitted which used cam shafts and popper valves and all complicated things. Excellent video really enjoyed it
Thanks very much for letting me know what that was called - duly noted!!
Happy New Year,
Sam :)
Sam has really made me appreciate British steam locomotives a whole lot
That's fantastic to hear Ian - glad to have converted you! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This legend also got me into steam locomotives. Even tho I'm 13, I do a lot of researches about racing and automobile. This pandemic got me bored, and I randomly got his videos, and give me a new and second hobby
@@SamsTrains yes I like Britain's trains
I tend to go for hornby railroad and then mod the hell out of them. Same goes for older models. There's nothing stopping you painting and glue on extra bits made from scratch in my opinion.
Absolutely - if you're skilled enough (I'm not!), that's a very good way to go!
Great idea mate,
Sam :)
@SamsTrains I did the same this week having recently bought the Prince of Wales version. I painted all the small details and cab insides on the RR version and lined it using a fine lining pen (which I had already) and added nicer Fox decals and etched name and maker plates. probably about £40 in all. In fact I initially bought the RR version after seeing your review among others and I'm glad I did after trying out a couple of Hornby TTS sound chips,... never again.
The Prince of wales actually has a visible wobble on the 3rd drivers which is pretty bad considering the new tooling and expense.
Looks Very Good Sam and i Love Your T-Shirt Keep Making Great Video and I'll see you on your live stream soon.
haha thanks a lot mate - glad you liked the shirt ;D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
A p2 is being rebuilt
Garry King 2. P2s dont exist at the moment in real life but they are rebuilding one of the p2s streamlined and it will be finished in 4 years, sad were all scrapped.
LaZeR JET omg LaZeR JET
Um Yes? Hello
Awesome! Would definitely like more of these comparison reviews.
Thanks mate! I had great fun doing this - so I'll definitely do more! :D
Cheers,
Sam :)
I just got the one without sound today! It’s absolutely magnificent I love it! Very smooth and it’s quite fast compared to my other trains
Great to hear you're happy with it - they are lovely looking! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I've been waiting for this! Although you will not be able to convince me that my railways P2 isn't excellent!
haha that's fair enough mate - I don't consider it excellent, but there are much worse ones out there! ;D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
When it comes down to it:
Performance: 7/10
Detail: 8/10
Build quality 9/10
Character: 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999/10
Value for money: 7/10.
I find the analysis and the production values to be incredibly professional and informative. Excellent.
Great video as always! My non sound railways loco ran fine out of the box though. Anyway, you can tell I love it because I gave it the honour of starting the last video filmed on that railway. :)
Thanks a lot! Absolutely - the non-sound versions seem to be much better runners... I don't know why that would be! D:
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Great review, thank you... as a beginner you have helped me decide that I want to go with super detail providing the extra cost is worth it.
Thanks very much Colin, glad this was helpful for you, much appreciated!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Very enjoyable as always, mate :) They do look great running side by side. All the best....Tom
Thanks a lot Tom - much appreciated mate!
Cheers,
Sam :)
Ah the P2 mikado! An interesting case of using a wheel arrangement meant for freight on passenger trains. They’re beautiful 3-cylinder mikados. Wonderful that they’re building two new mikados
Great vid. The side by side comparisons (on screen) work really well.
I'd say the railroad version is best for those who are either happy with the lower detail or are confident enough to hand paint most of the missing detail.
The only real difficult bits of detail (in my view) is enhancing the railroad lettering, and I'm sure there are waterside transfers available to add those in.
Tender pickups shouldn't be all that difficult to add either.
Thanks a lot Edward - glad you liked that! I agree - if you have the skill, then Railroad locos are great projects! Yes that's true - I suppose you could add tender pick-ups too if you wanted!
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Hey Sam! I have recently ordered a A1 Flying Scotsman with the original tender she had in 1923, I reckon I will get this model next it has been on my list for a while.
I do like the idea of comparing the different variations of the Hornby range, especially the Railroad ones. However, when I was younger, going back to the food train video you did, I used to fill my wagons up with peanuts, Smarties, Chocolate buttons, Magic Stars, Skittles, whatever and that was really fun, especially when I had Thomas, Percy and the Jinty tank engines and the trucks to play with.
Thanks a lot Lewis - ooh that's a fun idea - I've definitely done my fair share of that, lol ;D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Ya don't get hungry then ?
Very interesting, I've just purchased the railroad model for my conversion that I have been working on. Which if you're interested is the LNER P2 2003 Lord President. Interesting that the loco comes with quite a few details I'm quite amazed that I'll get the Cylinder Cocks, cab doors and footplate extra's, I'm very impressed.
Thanks a lot mate - that sounds very interesting, good luck with the conversion - yeah the detail for a Railroad loco is superb! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
A very comprehensive and honest review Sam...a very enjoyable watch. If you buy and run a locomotive, in 00 Gauge, then surely it's all about compromise. If the loco and stock look right at the distances that most of us view them, then surely that should be enough to allow the operator to enjoy the spectacle. Perhaps too much emphasis is being placed on details, that your eye just cannot detect when the trains are running. If the detail is that important and the locos are kept in a display cabinet, then do away with the motors etc, and this will greatly reduce both the cost of production, and more importantly the cost of purchase....Regards....Bob
Thanks very much Robert - yes you're absolutely right, compromise is the essential part!
Thanks again for the comment,
Sam :)
Excellent in-depth information on the many things which constitute the Hornby Railroad Class P2 and the Hornby Railways version of the same Loco. In your Jan. 2022 UA-cam you pointed out the drive motor might be a 3-pole - or might be a 5-pole and I have a reply from Hornby (Glen, I think it is) who said mine (the detailed boxed one) will be a 5-pole motor. Excellent - I sha'n't have to dismantle it and run the risk of damage to the screw heads &c., to find out. However the tender in my super detailed boxed 2021 version has no pickups and therefore no interconnecting cables between Loco & Tender. The grab rails are separate and, I assume, wire - but are non-magnetic non-conductive because of being painted anyway - but I doubt they are plastic?
Don't forget the Hall and Duke of Gloucester: they're the same tooling in both ranges! I recently bought a railroad hall and was pretty impressed with it.
Hi mate! Ooh is that so? I didn't know the Duke of Gloucester appeared as a Railroad model? Did the Hall end up in the railways range too? I don't remember seeing those actually - but you might be right! :D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
www.hattons.co.uk/60226/Hornby_R3168_Class_8P_4_6_2_71000_Duke_Of_Gloucester_in_BR_Green_with_late_crest_Railroad_ran/StockDetail.aspx
www.hampshiremodels.co.uk/products/hornby-r3205-oo-gauge-br-hall-class-4965-rood-ashton-hall?variant=3707106328599
They were so-called 'design clever' in the same sense as the P2: Great for Railroad, a bit naff for full-spec but the same tooling. The railroad edition of the hall, especially at hatton's current £57 price, is fantastic. My one is the recent BR Green edition - just need to add the black to the lining on the tender.
Good to see some variation in the content even though this isn't really my type of video but keep it up
Thanks Liam - not to worry, I won't be doing these too frequently! :3
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Hey, Sam! I recently found out that the last three driving axles for Prince of Wales arrived at Darlington within the past week or so, and orders have been placed for other components. The estimated completion date, subject to resources, is 2021.
Ooh really? That's absolutely fantastic news - one step closer to being a runner then! :D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
I have a Hornby Flying scotsman and i painted the cab and the locomotive to a super-detail one! 😎
Ooh that sounds epic actually!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The point is they were affordable to the masses, unlike today of Elitist Priced Product. IT is the pricing and low quality that is alienating everyone else who loves model toy trains. Which you highlight very well in your lovely videos - Thank you Sam for sharing
Sam this was a great video and extremely informative. The comparison mode really gives one food for thought. THANK you and keep up the good work. Also, love thr shirt!
Thanks a lot mate - really glad you enjoyed it!
Cheers,
Sam :)
The motor issue is a sad, sad display of Hornby incompetence these days. A popular model, without readily available spare motors? That's mental. Even Tornado and Flying Scotsman lack spare motors. Unacceptable when the motors die within a few overall hours...
I agree - I don't know why either! The only thing I have noticed is that it's many of the TTS locos that have had them.... maybe they think the sound will cover up the dreadful noise? Most likely, using a cheaper motor means they can increase perceived value for money on the TTS stuff... and make a better profit?
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Great comparison sam! I was thinking about painting my railroad one but after seeing the super detailed one im not sur if i do want to paint my railroad p2 because i think there is an odd charm to it
Thanks a lot Sharky, ooh be careful - don't mess it up! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Very interesting video Sam. I have a couple of Hall class locomotives from the Railroad range and I am very happy with them.
Thanks a lot mate - ooh yes the Railroad Hall Class is just fantastic!! :D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Hi Sam.
These locos had a rotary cam type valve gear. You are used to seeing Walscherts which has lots of moving parts. The valves on these were driven like a camshaft in a car, hence that block (gear box) and carden shafts leading to the valve chests. Nice to see a loco modeled with it for a change. The 'Duke of Gloucester' and certainly one Standard class 5 still have this system (British Caprotti), I believe that a few Black fives (one preserved) and 9F's were fitted with it as well. Nice video as always, thank you (I got the RailRoad version...)
Thanks a lot for the comment Douglas - yes I now know that you wouldn't see much movement in that system - but I still think it would have looked better if done in metal, rather than that flimsy plastic!
Glad you enjoyed it anyway - and the Railroad version was easily the better runner straight out of the box!
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
I concur with it being metal, especially on the detail version, however they do tend to build to a price. I have had a good few problems with her staying on the road though. Unless it is a billiard table on the levels she jumps off at the drop of a hat. I have the same problem with my H class 0-4-4 and if I am running any of my 4-6-0's tender first. This only seems to affect my Hornby stock as my Bachmann C class 0-6-0's seem to ride over anything with no problems at all. Have you had any issues with the P2?
I like the p2 class
Thanks mate - me too! :D
Cheers,
Sam :)
I would be happy to gave the railroad version, as I can always pick out my own hand painted details if need be. One can always purchase the tender pickups separately and fit them if absolutely necessary. And as I am more technically inclined I would move the TTS to the tender.
Thanks Bruce - yeah with a bit of skill the Railroad version would be a great buy! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I've just bought a super detail version for £80 and was a bit apprehensive about it as I heard it wasn't very good but after seeing them compared, in my opinion the railroad one looks sickly and terrible without the painted details. I have hear of the motor issues but I have a Britannia engine left over so I can improve the reliability there but besides that i think I'm going to continue to detail it to the spec you would expect from a hornby railways model
Hi mate - I think £80 is far far more like it for the super detailed version - and your right, the Railroad one loses a lot of 'life' without the superior paintwork!
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
If you wind up getting one of the A2/2 locomotives, you should do a Round Two!
Ooh that's a great idea!! :D
Good interesting video Sam. I often wonder what the difference between the two Hornby ranges are. Well presented too. I look forward to seeing more from you.
Thanks a lot Alan - to be fair, there's not much difference with these, but with others (the black 5 for instance), the difference is massive!
Cheers,
Sam :)
As well as the P2 I think the Duke of Gloucester and the Hall class had main Range and Railroad versions. I went for the full version of P2 but without sound. For me it was the lining that I wanted . The main version has the LNER black white black lining , while the Railroad version only has white , you can see that quite clearly on the tender and in the cab area. Have to say I’ve never had a problem with it , relatively smooth a quiet. The model comes from design clever period which is why they have three pole motors . Interestingly even the best Bachmann locos only ever have three pole motors . I really can’t tell the difference.
Hi Russell - yes I've heard that - I never realised those were in both ranges, but if they are then I stand corrected!
Yeah definitely - I don't think it's very clever personally though ;D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Wow! Not far off 100,000 subscribers now then. Well done, and well deserved! :)
Thanks so much for the support mate, really appreciate it! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam, many thanks for the mention. Yes it was a bitter disapointment how very low quality the motor was in this flag ship loco from Hornby, for me it marked the decline of a previously well trusted brand. Interested to hear that the Railroad one has a five pole motor from the start! are the fittings the same?
Hi Mike, no problem at all, I completely agree! I can't say for sure that the Railroad version has a 5-pole, because I haven't had it out - all I do know is that it runs 10 times better than my TTS one did! But yes, as far as I can see, the fittings were the same!
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
when you next have the body off can you take a photo and let me see it please, drop it on my facebook. No rush just interested for the future.
Also about the valve gear. I don't think at this current state that the valve gear would be able to be animated on the locos when you consider how small it is. It is a type of valve gear that looks similar to the coprotti equivalent (can't remember the name), and it consists of a pole that spins on an axis between piston and rotating axle. So getting that to work on a small model would be a bit impossible unless you were smart enough to make it work. But I agree a die-cast piece for the valve gear would be better then plastic.
Yeah I agree with you completely - even if they could animate it, it'd probably cost a bomb! Really I just don't like their choice to use unpainted plastic, it just looks and feels tacky to me!
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Mine came in the Train Set, so a railroad version. Runs sweet. Will be getting the silver paint out
Ooh pretty good - glad to hear it runs well for you! :D
Merry Christmas,
Sam :)
The P2 is an absolute fantastic locomotive. I own a gloss finish of it. Even though it STILL has the same tooling as the railroad tooling. But, believe it or not, she still ran as smooth as the railroad version did. Great vid Sam ;)
That's great to hear mate - the glossy version really is impressive - I once had one to service - it was gorgeous! :D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Thank you for another informative video, please continue to produce more comparison videos.
I am sure this helps the Modelers to make make a very informative choice.
Enjoyed the review more, having just received the TTS version, last Thursday, at a cost of £121. Do not know, what kind of motor it has, albeit, it creeps along, with no jerking.
That's great to hear - £121 sounds very reasonable for this! I wonder if they've started using 5-pole motors again then??
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
That 'thing' that looks like a 'Westinghourse' is in fact an ACFI Feedwater Heater. Gresley was good friends with the great French engineer, André Chapelon, and having seen the massive increase in efficiency in the French engines, he decided to use it on 2001. Unfortunately, as British coal was rather superior to French 'bug dust', any savings fuel-wise were wiped out by maintenance costs. Also note that the Kylchap double chimney here modelled is again Chapelon influenced: 'Kylchap' being a contraction of the two designers - the Finnish Kylälä and the aforementioned Chapelon. Hope that helps. I would add that if anyone can make a working representation of Rotary Cam valve gear, it would be a miracle: I don't even think Fulgurex have done it (and i they made it, Cock o'the North would sell for £2000 or so!). Check Duke of Gloucester - did its work? (Yep I know - the LNE loco had Lentz valve gear and 'The Duke' Caprotti, but in model form they're pretty similar). The problem with Railroad model, livery-wise, is that it is simply 'not' in LNER livery. That requires the white edging around the washout plugs and other details. And of course missing the cylinder lining-out is also wrong. As to the lettering - that is a complete deal-breaker. Unshaded letters came in during the war - by which time the locos were in austerity black! PS The TTS chip is giving the sound of the P2 doing about 30mph when the model is doing 50+. Not good of Hornby...
Hi Sam, perhaps an update on your comparison video here. One main problem with the 3246 TTS is the poorer quality motor. I sold my Railroad model, as I really wanted the additional lining - body, wheels, etc - of the higher specification model. I had a slightly around the houses hunt for the replacement motor.
The King X9108 is a straight drop in ... the one I received had a mid-grey brush/commutator cover end, and certainly was smooth and slow at the start, but was as anaemic as the stock-motored one for top end - not what I expected of the King motor.
'Revving' the motors with no resistance, they had the same pretty poor performance.
I've noticed the best 5-pole skew-wound motors have a black can, and black/dark grey cover for the brushes/commutator. Just by looking alone, I guessed on the X6199 fitting - it 'looked right' - guessing dimensions, bush dimensions, and colours ...
IT CERTAINLY IS!!!
Top end is nearly on a par with the new streamlined Coronation - FAST!!
Bottom end?
Look at this!!! ua-cam.com/video/fGV_6sJo66I/v-deo.html
I left it on a piece of flexitrack as you see, for 5' and it was faultless, with no interruptions or hiccups, and only reached halfway!!
Yes, I've 'lightly smoked' over the top of the body, to take that false sheen off it as well - looks fantastic!!
Alan.
Hi Alan - yes I've done lots of research into this too - in the end I found some amazing 5-pole replacements on Ebay from China for about £2 each - they seem to be all gone now, but do keep an eye on there - they're great for the money! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Hi Sam, that's interesting. Were they totally compatible? Mounting points? Skew wound? Bottom end torque - as indicated here, and top end revs? Alan.
@@SamsTrains Hi Sam, thanks for the reply.
These 5-pole motors, did they require any chassis adjustments, or did you find 'options' which suited the several different 3-poles Hornby has?
Were they 'skew wound', which presumably gives a smaller overlap between poles when the armature is rotating, permitting smoother slow operation?
Alan.
Hello Sam its Michael F, just wanted to say i really loved your comparison video. I have the hornby railways P2 with the stock moder. Heres a good tip for it. what i found out when i first got it is that it never ever cuts out on bachmann HO points so if your p2 cuts out on points it runs really well over bachmann ho points
Hi Michael, really glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for the tip - I'll give bachmann points a try!
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Lovely video Sam thanks for sharing
I love my sound P2, one problem though if you have the tiniest bump in the track the front bogie comes off. My ones Motor is perfect, it’s very strong and pulls all of my coaches. Using my digitrax controller it’s slow speed is amazing!
Great to hear that! Yes the front ponies are well known for derailing - particularly on points etc :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I think. It may sounds stupid. Butt I think that the TTS sound models are a little les detailed then the normal Railways Versions. I saw a video from Tony Wright. And I lookt at the P2 Review. And the Non TTS version had more detail. Suchs ass an removabel coal load, metal buffers and painted cab interior.
Hi mate - yes you're right - generally the first handful of TTS locos were far inferior to regular Railways models - though these days, their main range can usually be bought with tts though!
Thanks a lot for the info.
Sam :)
Amazing comparison! I think the railways version is better for a serious modeller who has some time and money to spare on modding it a bit.
Thanks mate! I agree - minus the cost, that's definitely the better model, with the exception of the motor of course!
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
8:57 Quick question, if you wanted, could you paint/sharpie the railing with silver to make them stand out on the Railroad one, provided you had a steady hand? Great video as always. PS. I think--if I could afford either--that I'd go with the Railroad one and just paint on some extra detail! Very carefully of course. Cheers.
Hi Patrick - if you were skilled enough, you could completely transform both of these models - so if you can do it, then yes! Unfortunately, I'm not one of those people - but they are out there! :D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
14:40 damn.....the Railways P2 just dwarfs the railroad P2, even though they are the same size, the railroad variant looks a little smaller from that view.
I wonder if Hornby messed up and the 3 pole motor and plastic buffers should of been fitted to the railroad version as having those fitted to the Railway version really lets it down considering the nicer paint job it has.
haha I have no idea to be honest - it just makes no sense to me, lol ;D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Great comparison Sam!
Thanks mate! :D
I think I'm right in saying the BR Duke Of Gloucester is the same underlying tooling for both the Railroad and Railways versions. (It caused quite the stir at the time.)
Hi Oliver - you might be right - I didn't realise the Duke appeared in the railroad range, but if it did - then you will be right!
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
the railroad one is much better with some grey and red paint and a thin brush u could recreate the painted detail like the railways one only worth it if u want dcc sound
Great to hear that - yes it's far better value!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hello Sam, lovely video, thanks. Could you let me know if you can say what the minimum curve-radius the P2 will run on? and in the video there is a chicane clearly showing both locos managing it just fine at 22:30 into the video, what radius is that chicane" Cheers mate. :)
Saw these at a model event side by side and too be honest its the same loco just one has extra detail than the other. Its basically what you want from a model but for value i would choose the railroad edition everytime
Thanks Daniel - absolutely right, it is the same loco, with some variations!
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Hi Sam, good comparison. Agree fully regarding the horrid plastic value gear and the lack of metal buffers. For a flag ship loco Hornby really messed up a few bits.
Thanks a lot mate - yeah agreed, this should really have been better for the money!
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Good video Sam well produced liked it. I had the same problem with TTS version poor motor Mike of Mikes Videos told me which motor to have fitted never looked back.
Thanks very much mate - yeah absolutely, once you get those decent motors in there, you're laughing ;D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Sam do you ever research if you model has been preserved Irl I just done my 03 and found out it never had a 03 number and was only d2388.
It’s quite fun to do!
Ooh that is pretty fun - I will try that - thanks! :D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Sam, are both the Tenders the same moulding? The pick-ups should be available as a spare part and they could then be wired to the Loco pick-ups without using the silly little white plug. Martin. (Thailand)
Yes they are Martin, so with a bit of work you could add in the pickups yourself! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Thanks Sam. I've been wondering how much difference there is between the two series. I think I will be focussing more on the mechanics for any future purchases.
Thanks a lot Pat - yes that'd be wise I'd say! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam back after I've had no Internet it's been a tough couple of weeks but nice video I always like to watch one of your vids when I wake up and when I've had no Internet for two weeks watching one of your latest videos cheers me right up I hope you can make more of the races loco against loco if so that would be great but yeah nice vid
Hi mate - blimey that does sound tough! Hope you really enjoyed this though!
I like that idea - I'll definitely do more soon! :D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Just a couple of general questions....is it shown on the box whether a hornby loco is a railroad or railway version? And secondly what's the differrence between DCC ready and DCC fixed? Sorry, I'm a begginer in a foreign land.
Hi Sam. Just awaiting my (hopefully) bargain P2 railroad version from Amazon Germany in the warehouse sale - just puzzled as you say the railroad version has a 5 pole motor - but it says 3 pole on the Hornby website?
Ooh very exciting - that's interesting too - wonder if it is just 3 pole then??
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Nice caparison vid Sam... Enjoyed it. & Nice T too
Thanks mate, really glad you liked it, and the T, lol ;D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Don't feel bad, Sam. Most of my very expensive Märklin models don't have painted cabs either. :p
haha thanks Jonatan - I think that's pretty unacceptable too! I would assume that those models are at least decent quality though??
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
sam amazing video nice music and great camera skills too also, could you a review a BR black 5 because im thinking of getting one for my railway but i dont know how good they are. (:
Hi mate, thanks so much - okay I'll take a look at those, thanks for the idea!
Cheers,
Sam :)
Excellent review.
1. Hornby RailRoad Range for beginners and Hornby Railways for advanced modellers or
2. Hornby RailRoad Range for daily use and Hornby Railways for collectors or
3. Hornby RailRoad Range for people with a smaller budget and Hornby Railways for people with a larger budget
and more differences, quality control not included, hehe
Thanks Norbert - yes I think those are good points!
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
I heard some buzz about a Cock o' the North model recently. Wonder if it was one of these. Anyway, great as always to see a video from you, Sam!
Ooh nice! Yeah this is based on the cock o the north loco in real life! :D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
I have the same Hornby P2 locomotives, one of each range, both original motors. I believe they are 6 pole motors, not 3 pole motors. Both run slower and smoother than your DC or DCC re motored models. I use Zimo DCC decoders with storage capacitors. How about a video comparing your DC controller to a model with various makes of DCC decoders, with and without storage capacitors.
Thanks for sharing Terry - they can't be 6 pole, you'll only ever find an even number of poles in DC motors in order to avoid stalling! I've dismantled a P2 motor before - it was definitely 3 pole! The decoders could well cause an improvement to performance though!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Interesting about the 3 pole motor. Its been along time since I have pulled apart a 3 pole motor and counted cogs per revolution. I stand corrected. DC motors can have even number of poles, but typically for model railway motors they are odd numbers as per your experience. I have made a short video showing the improvement in slow speed control of the Hornby P2 using a Zimo decoder. ua-cam.com/video/t9q2IsIkj7s/v-deo.html
I'm really considering getting myself 1 , is the Hornby A4 motor appliable for the Hornby P2 ?
Great comparison, I almost through they are look the same
Thanks mate! Yeah they do, until you look very closely! :D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
When I earned £22 a week back in 1979 an engine was £14-£32, Evening Star was £32.96 . So I could buy one every 2 weeks. NOW They have gone completely mad.
Interestingly how do their prices compare to other manufacturers using CHINA like Rapido I wonder? Maybe a video there Sam.
All relative though, you wouldn't work for £22 a week these days. I agree that the pricing is nuts, especially for getting kids introduced to the hobby, I guess though they only need one set... It's when we get older we start to go overboard ;) lol 😂
Wow! Speaking of the P2s, I can’t wait for that new one to be completed! I think if they weren’t rebuilt, Cock O The North would probably have been preserved! In fact, 70% of the parts on the P2s are the same as Tornado, including the tender and the boiler!
Thanks Ryno - absolutely, it's going to be amazing when that gets done! :D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Your welcome Sam!
Ryan :)
Thanks Sam for this clip you made on these two locos not got a P2 yet but after watching your video has got me thinking''' weather i should buy one or not if i did i would get the rail road version, But my biggest annoyance is both these models are Hornby and Bachmann do not do a P2 or even a B12. But when it comes to diesel locos ie the class 37 both manufactures do the same model why is this i wonder? As you pointed out on both models they got that nasty plastic false driving rod which is a big put off. So now the P2 is not on my priority list at the moment i think quality doses really matter and after then two different motors has made my mind up even more. Sorry for the long message but once again you done a fab job.
Thanks Michael - glad you enjoyed it! Yeah that's a good point actually - they don't seem to tread on each-others toes where steam locos are concerned, but they do with diesels... maybe there's less to choose from?
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
I'm considering getting back into model trains after watching your videos! They are really awesome! What scale engines are the ones you purchase? I use to like the bigger sized ones when I was a kid, but now I'm thinking the smaller sizes may work better with my living space. Thanks!
That's great to hear Jake, hope you have fun! Mine are 00 gauge, which are also compatible with H0!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam'sTrains the valve gear on the P2 Railway and railroad version are a Camshaft Desing very much like the No.71000 BR standard 8, if Hornby made it work we as a customer could be paying £200 - £300 for a engine that has working camshaft valve gear wicth is too much for a engine and the TTS enigne's slowly going up in price likw the Digital sound close to £170+ for a TTS locomotive. I praid £160 for a 4-6-0 Black 5.
Thanks a lot for the info on that - I think it's fair enough that it doesn't work then, but still very crap that it's done in plastic ;D
Yes you're right - the prices are still creeping up - when will they see that just increasing the prices and changing nothing else won't save them?
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
The Valve gear would be nice of been metal or painted metal colour but I'm think of getting my P2 from the loft and check it if it has the same issue like your P2
Hey Sam I'm thinking about buying the railroad P2. Can your recommend it. Thanks Liam
Sure! For the right price, they're decent! Otherwise, look out for Hornby's new one - it should be very detailed! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam, I noticed how you had a live stream where you had a lock down chat,. What does that mean?? Also you should continue this seires!
Just somewhere for people to come and talk if they were in lockdown with nothing to do! :)
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great video, Sam....... I'm pretty sure I don't need the extra pick up points, and 50 quid will buy a lot of detailing paint.
Thanks David - I've always found the more pickups the better, but you're right about that!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Why do some Hornby models have the trailing truck (or pony truck) solid mounted to the frame and the wheel blinded? I was a little disappointed when I got my Mallard and saw that (keep in mind I was visiting London from the US when I picked it up).
I've never seen it on any other model except for really simple tinplate O scale steamers from the 40s and 50s.
I don't know why they do that - sometimes they do, and sometimes they do them properly - it is strange and disappointing, I agree!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Question: are you going to the model train comvention at the SECC tomorrow? I'm going there and I'm going to see if I can get my hands on any second hand Thomas stuff
Hi mate - unfortunately I have a lot on tomorrow, but I would love to visit that one day! :D
Cheers,
Sam :)
Hi sam.
Really good to see you again, another cracking video. And i myself hvr these two. And i agree that i was supprised but the lack of "super detail" on the dcc loco. But have done a custom paint job on my railroad version which is quite nice. I dont know if you have but i have a locomotion gloss finish of the A3 flying Scotsman in BR green as it is now with support coach. I would love if one we could somehow do what you have done with this or other locos or simply review her. Let me know what you think.
Cheers Matt
Thanks a lot Matt - I agree - someone earlier said that the Railways P2 is a Railroad loco pretending to be a Railways one - I think that's a really good way of looking at it!
Ooh that sounds fantastic - I just can't get enough of those glossy finishes! :D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Am very surprised that the Railroad version outscores the digital version on a couple of details and that the motor in the digital version was substandard initially. I found the DCC sound rather irritating! I think I would stick with the Railroad version for these reasons and that I am on a budget too. Thanks for the review on a fine loco.
I suppose it was better value for money - and yes the early TTS was very irritating - distorted nasty audio - much better on modern releases though!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Beautiful locomotives I wish I could have all the trains you do great video Sam
Thanks a lot mate - really glad you like them all :3
Cheers,
Sam :)
Ive the supper detailed NON DCC one and that came with the 5 pole flywheel motor ..... Ive not seen another one since either so i think mine must be a rare model and there also no tender pick ups
Hmmm, I seem to remember the non-tts ones did run better, maybe they did get 5 pole motors then?? Have you had the motor apart to check??
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains no but when i looked up the repalcement motor it did say 5 pole? My done a lot of running so now on her 3rd motor
The new P2 2007 Prince of Wales is being built about 7 minutes from my house in my hometown of Darlington!
Oh wow!! Have you been to see it then?! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains last time I saw it was in February. I used to go once a month to visit it but obviously I can’t due to corona.the first time I saw it was in 2014 when it was just bare frames. The video of my last trip is on my channel. If you want to see it you’ll have to look at my first videos
@@SamsTrains here’s the link if your interested ua-cam.com/video/GXe-Ozf63WA/v-deo.html
Brilliant video Sam
Thanks very much James! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
EVERYONE IF YOU NEED A NEW MOTOR FOR YOUR P2 YOU WILL NEED THE HORNBY PART X9108 SLIGHTLY FILE DOWN THE FRONT AND IT SHOULD SNUGGLY FIT IN IT WILL COST ABOUT £20 SO YOU DONT HAVE TO WASTE £50 ON A TORNADO IT WORKS A DREAM I RECOMMEND IT
Thanks a lot for that - I'm sure that'll be very useful for anyone looking to replace theirs!
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Sam'sTrains I just want to say how much I love your videos as they feel natural and relaxed which I don't always find when watching videos on model railways, thanks- James
MMMMMMMN THAT LNER APPLE GREEN THO
( best colour ever) also it seems locomotives run better backwards do you know why ?
haha absolutely - it's just beautiful isn't it?? :3
Some of them seem to yeah - sometimes you find that some motors have a 'better' direction - I'm not too sure why it is!
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
Hi Sam, sorry you have to reply to a comment on a 2 year old video :D, but I've got a lot of questions. Obviously when you have a Scottish layout, you cannot leave a P2 out of the mix ay!
First question is are hornsby still selling the dcc 1 with a 3 pole motor
Second is if so can't I just transfer a 5 pole into it
Third is will I be able to use dcc one on a dc layout
Fourth is are they able to be transferred to screwlink couplings
Fifth is are there any transfer packs to change the buffers to spring
Thanks for your time, and once again sorry to ask all these questions on such an old video.
Take care, Lewis
haha not at all! It's worth checking their website, but I don't think they have any more of these in stock. Yes you can change them for a 5 pole motor, though they are quite tricky to find. The TTS version will only work on DCC out of the box. Yes you could fit your own screwlink couplings. Not to my knowledge on the buffers, but with a bit of skill, it could be done!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I am very late to comment on this, but contrary to 5:01 ish, there is a way to get etched nameplates without buying that specific model. Silver Tay Models. on eBay make etched nameplates for just about every locomotive larger than a Jinty. for instance, I got a set of Scotsman plates for £3.50. they are remarkably well made. etched 1mm thick brass. would highly recommend.
Also. 9:00. that isn't a Steam Chest. that is the Cylinder Cladding. the steam chest is on the top-opposite side of the cylinders going back to the steam inlet pipes.
No problem mate - many thanks for the info on this, yes I've been aware of such companies before - I'd like to try one! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains You're welcome for the info. any time. If you're looking to try one out, my personal recommendation (from experience) is Silver Tay Models. the amount of nameplates and smokebox door Head plates they have available is astounding. and the prices are, well... they aren't going to break the bank. not the cheapest, but the quality is superb. I think they also do some transfer replacement kits as well. but that was a while ago so, i'm not sure if they still make them now.
I've heard about Silver Tay,and probably I'll buy some nameplates if i can get a model for myself,but I'll never understand Hornby doing etched nameplates: what's the point of them if there's already a printed nameplate in the loco?
@@davidantoniocamposbarros7528 Because etched nameplates look more realistic and accurate to the prototype then a flat printed one. These models are designed for hobbyists and realistic layout builders alike, so they have to cater for both prices.
At this point, I no longer purchase any loco without looking for his reviews on it. Well done indeed.
That's very good of you Adam, many thanks for the support!
Cheers,
Sam :)
Many of these details I likely would've have noticed if they weren't pointed out to me. True, the lack of moving valve gear in either is a bit naff, but I think the Railroad model presented here just defines the kind of thing I'd be after. Good performance is preferable to high level of detail :).
If you wouldn't notice, then the Railroad one is definitely for you - they're still great! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
The "little flaps", as you call them, that you say that you don't know what they're for, are cab doors which would, on the real thing, allow access and egress to the cab when opened and stop the crew falling out by mistake when closed. Of course, on the real thing there would be no gap between the doors and the tender, the doors blocking any space completely.
Yes you're absolutely right - quite an old video now, haha!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains NPs Sam. As long as you know! Wasn't being particularly critical. It's just something that old, retired steam and model enthusiasts, rather than just young model enthusiasts, know.
I saw a photo of the 2001 and there is clearly colour around the front windows. If I'm going to pay for "super detailing" I would prefer it to be more accurate.
That's fair enough David - the paint scheme is undeniably better on the expensive option!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Thanks for doing this, I would go with the Railways range for more painted Details.
No problem mate - yep that's a sound argument - you certainly do get better painted detail on these! :D
Thanks for watching,
Sam :)
great job and informative. cool
Thanks a lot Paul! :D
Have you reviewed the Railroad Plus range Sam?