exactly as u mentioned! for the longest time i didn't wanna join Lolita because of the fat-shaming nonsense, im not obese but im not an xx-small, ive seen so many people get fat-shamed for being literally a medium.. i cant even imagine the amount of trash people get for being bigger to the standard of Lolita, people really need to grow up about it and stop pushing THEIR standards onto other people. it's sickening.. unfortunately, its just a big problem within the J- fashion communities, i love the fashion soo much and will always have a huge place in my heart! however, some people are definitely awful
Yes! It’s unfortunate how prevalent fat shaming is in jfashion, ESPECIALLY lolita for whatever reason 🙁 I’m hoping that we won’t have this issue in the next few years as zoomers seem to not tolerate stuff like this anymore!! Everyone should be able to enjoy the fashion regardless of how big or small they are 💞🎀
I believe the root of the problem (at least for Lolita) is brands like AP in the 2010s really not having diverse sizing. A good example of this is Cherry berry bunny: the OPs bust only is 33 inches (or 84cm) that’s pretty small even for AP. My theory is that the Lolita community at this time (live journal) believed that only girls that could fit that sizing were considered “cool” enough to wear the fashion. Nowadays AP definitely goes up to a women’s size M, and the community is much more accepting of bigger body types.
I can't stand gatekeepers who say "You're wearing it wrong" or "Not following the rules" When I can pull up tonnes of old-school street snaps of Lolita's in Japan wearing the same things. It doesn't matter to them though how much evidence I provide cause in their heads they'll always think it's wrong. I don't post pictures online anymore I just wear the fashion for myself.
No literally! I swear, it’s only people in the west who are crazy like this with the rules. Chinese lolita is very experimental and even Japanese Lolita is. I think it’s great that you wear it for yourself! You should do what makes YOU happy 💕🎀
I hear a lot of this stuff being complained about online and I do wonder if these kinda of behaviors are mostly unique to the American lolita community. I've been in lolita since 2020, never met any kind of "brandwhore" irl (even the most brand obsessed members of my comm wear offbrand/taobao shoes and blouses), my comm does group taobao/buyee/brand orders, we've never had any drama in all of that time so I find all of the stuff I hear about very surprising. Especially seeing my comm is a country-wide comm due to living in a smaller country. Also a note on the blouse debate for any newbies in the comments, blouses are usually required in lolita because the addition of a collar or arm decor balances the top of your torso with all of the stuff going on the lower half of your torso with having such a large skirt. People who believe it to be a modesty thing are incorrect. Your frilly arm bands and full chest covering choker is a great example of a set that is designed to not need a blouse to any new-comers who are confused by the idea. Other great substitutes for blouses are mini capelets, cardigans, statement necklaces/chokers, long gloves and long armbands!
I’ve only been to one meetup ever (I live in an area not close to any big cities sadly :’D). Most of my interactions with other Lolita’s has been American ones online. So maybe it is more of an American thing to be more prestigious about brands 😅 Maybe this is also another mostly American lolita thing, but I’ve seen/heard of people get ripped to shreds online/at meetups for not wearing blouses, even if it’s done “properly” like the coord I’m wearing in the video. I’m glad to hear that for your country this doesn’t seem to be an issue though. Thank you for adding advice about blouses for newcomers into the fashion! ☺️🎀
american here and nah, you really don't see that attitude very often in the united states. i've been wearing lolita off and on since 2005, and i will admit that attitude used to be a lot more common when brand was really hard to get here because it was kind of treated like a status symbol by some people. you do still sometimes run into OG brand whores in the wild, but for me it's the same vibe as you get when running into someone's grandma who escaped containment at the old folks' home and still thinks nixon is president. i think it's primarily an online phenomenon and usually it's people who have either not changed with the times or are just very insecure individuals themselves.
Speaking finding a Lolita Community , it’s like go to casino to gambling with a Luck approach , yeah finding a healthy community simply like grabbing a shining jackpot , And I really feel , as Lolita Fashion is an Alternative Fashion Which the nature is conformist defying fashion , it’s simply unrealistic to think it should be stayed in stagnancy
I totally agree!! It’s unfortunate that finding a nice community is difficult to find considering that this is already a pretty niche community :( I think we need more open minded people to join this space so others don’t feel excluded and everyone can just have fun with beautiful fashion! 🎀
Yeah, it really depends on the dress I guess! If it’s a dress with a print, you’ll definitely need a petticoat so you can see the print and so it’s not awkward looking. Definitely want to see more blouseless lolita coords! 🌟 I think it’s great especially if you live in a humid/hot environment like I do, so you can still be lolita but not overheating lol 😅🤣 I like seeing people put other things underneath their dresses as well like mesh or fishnet. It can make a really unique look! ☺️🎀
no because you're right also i feel like a lot of old heads are the ones keeping these anon sites alive, new lolitas don't care as much or keep up with that old drama in comparision, there's a reason why activity there has dwindled, and you can kind of *tell* who the people who use these sites are based on how they type
It is nice to know that most newcomers into the fashion don’t engage with this type of online bullying/harassment. Not that it’s completely gone because tiktok and twitter exist, but the newer Lolita’s and younger generations are a lot more accepting compared to how the community was in the 2000s. I’m hoping that one day it’s truly a positive/helpful environment that everyone feels comfortable in! 🙏🏼💫
I feel it's only western lolitas that are this concerned about rules. I saw so many lolitas in Japan who don't wear petticoats and are known for experimental coords
I think the whole blouse n certain rules has gotten alot better compared to how it is. As someone who lives in Texas many lolitas understand how not wearing a blouse in a coord is okay. Most lolitas are alright so long as you are following the given stuff that makes it lolita. I would like to see you make a tutorial though, becuase I always shop through resellers becuase even trying to follow some tutorials on youtube it sounded VERY confusing n alot! Maybe you can help with that n I can save some money :)
You’re right! I think the only people I’ve personally met who are a-ok with no blouses in coords are ones from hot climates. I guess its kinda hard to relate if you live in a mostly cool environment. I could totally make a tutorial! It can be pretty confusing and honestly, I haven’t seen a very thorough tutorial on how to shop / buy taobao, ESPECIALLY with kawaii fashion. So I’d love to post a video to help people save money when it comes to buying from there! ☺️💞🎀
I live in florida. Blouses make your coordinates look much better and more complete. There are ways you can prevent the sweat when your wearing a blouse, for example instead of wearing a blouse you can wear a chiffon cape or something light to cover your shoulders. If it’s hot for me, I just don’t wear Lolita until it gets cooler.
@@FrillyDisaster To each their own I seen many individuals wear no blouse n it look just as good n put together as it would be with one. Even major brands encourage no blouse at times don't have to stick to it always unless wanting.
@@xlittlelolipopx if you want to have a debate maybe check your spelling first so I can take your opinion more seriously. Also, what is your definition of “major” Lolita brands? Because angelic pretty, Baby the stars shine bright, Alice and the pirates, and Moi-Memê-Moitié all showcase there JSKs with blouses underneath there JSKs (unless there on Mannequins). The only brands that have models not wear blouses that I can think of are TaoBao brands which are known for there subpar quality compared to angelic pretty or baby.
@@FrillyDisaster I not debating is just known fact. You can have your preferences & opinions, doesn't mean they're right. Also you decided to comment under mine so that's on you
It’s unfortunate that the elitist type of Lolitas do exist, but I promise there’s also very nice Lolitas out there who genuinely want to help newcomers and give advice! 🙏🏼🎀
It's awful that the lolita community can be like that sometimes, but luckily I've had no problem avoiding this sort of thing. It's probably because I don't spend much time on the online part of the community, most of my time wearing or talking about lolita fashion is with my local comm who are all really nice people.
I’m glad to hear that you’ve had a positive and safe experience! I wish I was closer to a big city because the only way I can get to know other lolitas is online unfortunately 🙁 I think it definitely affects a person’s experience in the community if they’re able to go to comms / conventions as people will generally be a lot nicer in person. I’m hoping that in the future the lolita community can evolve to be kinder to newcomers or people who are different! 🙏🏼🎀
tbh gatekeeping over brand i can deal with (anyone in 2023 who thinks you aren't a 'real lolita' if you aren't wearing head to toe AP in every coordinate is suffering from terminal online poisoning and needs to go touch grass), what bothers me more than anything is the racism and the fat shaming that i still see happening. it's been better this past couple of years, but the lolita community absolutely still has a reputation for bullying people who aren't thin and pale and conventionally attractive, and it's not undeserved. as a plus size lolita i actually stumbled across comments about me before on 4chan a few years ago and it was very hurtful. i can't in all good conscience tell new lolitas "don't let it get to you" because it will get to you. no matter how thick a skin you have or how much confidence you might normally have or try to project, strangers being shitty to you will always make you feel unwanted. we've come farther as a community than i ever hoped we could in that regard, but there is so much more we could and should be doing for each other.
(OH also-- every lolita i've ever met with a big brand closet has spent YEARS and $$$ building that collection, very very few people in this fashion are actually wealthy enough to maintain the kind of spending habits brand elitists want to imply we all have, which makes their attitudes even *more* baffling lol. most of us own at least one non-brand piece, usually way more than that)
Yes! Honestly it’s crazy that this is such a prevalent issue within the lolita community considering how many poc + plus size Lolita’s I’ve seen myself. You’re right as in it’s gotten a bit better than how it was in like, the 2000s, but there is still an insane amount of a-holes unfortunately, particularly online. It’s hard to ignore if a negative comment is made towards you tbh. I think the best way to deal with it is to block the person, let yourself get upset about it, and move on knowing that the person who made comments to you is really miserable themselves.
It is weird how brand elitists act like that considering most of them aren’t “rich.” I know most Lolita’s I’ve seen (myself included) it’s taken them years to build closets, so it’s odd when you see people acting all “mightier than thou” when it comes to how much brand they have and wear.
For what you said about brand “girls”. Not only are good looking angelic pretty dresses hard to find resell, there also simply overpriced for what your getting. Often times people on lace market will charge up to 2 times more then the original price despite the dresses being average to damaged quality. I suggest not buying these listings until you find a dress you feel is worth it’s asking price.
You’re so right!!! I very rarely shop on lacemarket as it’s become kind of overpriced in recent years… particularly AP. I know that Depop gets bad rep from being “overpriced”, but I’ve found so many lolita dresses on there for great prices. I was able to do a trade recently with someone to get the purple color way of sugary carnival + kc ☺️🎀
Many AP prints are very popular which is why the dresses often have a high resale price. However, for some prints you only have to look at Fril and Mercari (the auctions there are only accessible via a shopping service, or you live in Japan). The secondhand market in Japan is not so bad as far as prices are concerned. However, you should always keep in mind that most prints are not mass-produced but in limited numbers, so the price is of course based on the retail price and how rare a dress is. Each dress has a certain limit of comfort for everyone as far as the prices are concerned. What must also be considered is that new dresses now cost 380 USD at Angelic Pretty. I don't think this is justified, but you can't expect the dress to be resold for 100 USD and less, especially if the dress was not unpopular. On the subject of damage, it always depends on what exactly it is. Some simply do not dare to wash the dresses, which is why they then have stains. Therefore, the price, with easily washable stains, must not necessarily be below the original price. I think that you can not say that across the board. At the end of the day, I would still like to see cheaper prices, of course, but you also have to understand that what was not cheap before, must not necessarily be cheaper in resale.
I'm from the Netherlands and have been wearing lolita (and part of the community) during 2003~2009 and 2018~present. I would describe my local comm as drama free. I have not bumped into what I would consider to be gatekeeping at all offline or online, in my local comm or worldwide. Information on anything (incl how to use taobao) was freely shared with me. I don't understand why anyone would gatekeep taobao. I mean it's a great resource and it's widely used within the community but to be blunt, nobody actually sees it as something special that they want to keep a secret. And even if someone considers a certain store on taobao as something special, it's been my experience that lolitas tend to want to share information about the things they love. Elitism, it's so rare these days IME. I used to see it more often (legit "brandwhores" who thought they were superior because their whole outfit was jpn brand) back when it was a little bit more difficult to buy brand items, but these days it's so easy that it is no longer a status symbol. The term "brandwhore" is most often used in a more neutral and positive way these days, usually it only means someone who really loves a brand as opposed to someone who thinks wearing brand makes them superior. I don't think anyone is getting kicked out of the meetup because they wear taobao/chinese indie brand or bodyline. Cost; I mostly shop the secondhand market but to be fair, and realistic, 50$ for a jpn brand dress is a really good deal and you won't often see those deals. It's also really difficult to build a wardrobe on a low income. It's not a cheap hobby even if you opt for the options that cost the least. Some of these beautiful wardrobes we see online took 10 years or more to build. A lot of people wait until they have a decent income to start buying lolita stuff. I know it's frustrating for teenagers wanting to get into the fashion but to be honest and realistic (which I think is also being kind) most teenagers can't afford it. Most jpn brand's target demographic is women 20~45yo. Most people in the comm aren't paying 500$ per dress though. Most dresses don't cost that much if you buy them straight from the brand. I hate it when someone says "I can't afford a 500$ dress, therefore brandwhores don't consider me a real lolita/it's okay if I buy a replica/I won't buy jpn brand/etc" because it's such a misrepresentation of reality. Rules; I don't think the "blouse under jsk" guideline (it's a guideline, not really a rule) is because of modesty. It's, imo, probably more about balancing out details. A jsk with nothing underneath and nothing on the arms and wrists can make the arms and wrists look bare and empty. There are other ways to balance it out that don't require a blouse. I don't think anyone who rigidly says "you must wear a blouse under a jsk, no exceptions" knows what they're talking about. I personally like the cake recipe analogy regarding the rules/guidelines since it allows for creativity within bounds. You can substitute some ingredients, or leave some out (break some rules/guidelines), but once you break too many it's no longer a cake (stops being lolita). I think the idea that lolita just requires a certain silhouette is oversimplified. In most spaces concrit is also regulated, so if someone doesn't want any all they have to do is opt out. Drama sites; CGL on 4chan and behind the bows (which is now closed afaik) are isolated spaces, so you won't see any of that content unless you visit them yourself. That aspect of the community will always be there, and I don't recommend going there unless you can ignore all of the negativity. Giving unsolicited comments on someone's coord on their own personal social media page is just so weird.
I think the mandatory blouse thing is due to the fact that japanese brands feature coordinates w jsk AND blouses because culturally in japan people do not show their shoulders or clavicles :o even outside of EGL I noticed there are few peopel wearing tank tops and even summer dresses are worn w a t shirt underneath, so I think it's just a cultural inheritage, idk if it's the same in China because chinese EGL brands tend to do the same though
I could see it being a cultural thing honestly! With a lot of Chinese brands, I’ve actually noticed that there are a good amount of JSKs that don’t need blouses. I think maybe the “no blouse” look is more popular in China than other areas for EGL. For me, as someone who’s lived in the US and is now living in Italy, people wear a lot of tank tops and crop tops during the summer or even in Spring / Autumn! So again, it may be a cultural thing ^^
@@wickedbunniez yep same in southern france:) you can find people hanging out in bras or bare chested (rarer) even in the city or not directly close to the sea! You wouldn't find anyone in crop tops in Japan or at least not in mainstream fashion
I'm not much into Lolita fashion. But for the blouse thing, I thought that this rule is maybe mainly because of Japanese culture. The Victorian era was not that ''modest'' - But while I find many aspects of Japanese culture interesting, we should not forget the misogyny there. There are many schools for example where it is normal to have rules like ,,The hair should cover a neck and ponytails aren't allowed because it might irritate the boys'' So covering up as much as possible and being as modest as possible is a thing that some Japanese women do, to be safe from being criticized. There is this UA-camr who explains a lot about fashion in Japan and how many rules there are for women that are about being modest. Meanwhile, as I know, Lolita fashion is about to be cute. So using modesty rules seems to be a little weird. Like - you can be cute and sexy. But a blouse doesn't make you more modest or less sexy when you want to look like that. I kind of know people who are into Lolita fashion hate comparisons to young people (not only children) but I want to draw a comparison with them in mind. You would NEVER say that a child is not ''modest'' (I don't know a better word, since English is not my first language) because it runs around with only underwear. Because a child does not intend to be - attractive in that sort of way. And that's a thing I have in mind when it comes to adult fashion as well. As long as it is intended to look modest - it is. So when you don't want to wear a blouse - it should be fine.
Very well said!! 👏🏼 I agree, maybe it is more of a Japan thing as I have heard as well that they don’t allow ponytails in some schools because ‘the neck is sexual’ ??? Like someone with a neck fetish clearly made that one up because what the hell! 🤣 As for people comparing lolita fashion to children, I also think it’s odd because since when have children worn petticoats and fully decorated outfits recently? It’s even WEIRDER when people take lolita as a “sexual “ thing because why does a woman wearing something cutesy = pedophile bait? At least that’s how they think here in the US, where alot of people think cute or feminine things = infantilizing yourself.
@@wickedbunniez I would not see it that way. At the end of the day it depends on how the whole outfit feels. The dresses are very pompous, especially due to the petticoat and there it sometimes seems very unbalanced when certain things are simply skipped. Of course, everyone can wear what everybody wants but still the outfit can appear a bit unbalanced. In what I see e.g. of your outfit in the video it fits simply from the style to leave out the blouse (the rest I can not see unfortunately) but if you have also left out the socks then it is balanced. I would describe it in that way ~ you are wearing thick winter clothes: sweater, winter jacket, boots, hat and scarf ~ but then wear shorts with it ... that just seems unbalanced (apart from that, that you won't feel your leggs anymore on a cold winter day xD)
I've been involved with Lolita for the past five years or so, and wear it daily in public. My experience thus far has been that the nimbus of hate rotates far more over the AP brand, than any other brand. Yeah, you can find your avid Meta followers, but the venom, the hatred, the ignoring of anyone who doesn't wear AP is always by people who only wear AP. I find this particularly true on social media when you follow someone and leave positive comments that they never, ever, ever reply to. I've also left an anti AP comment here and there, because I think their brand promotes eating disorders on some level, and industry leaders have actually DELETED my comments and then blamed it on the UA-cam algorithm. No joke. If there is poison in Lolita, it's intricately tied to the AP brand and those who follow it. 💔
I think it’s easier to find men’s wear for lolita than women’s wear tbh. The women’s wear is very particular for the style, so you need a dress to be able to fit a petticoat and such!
exactly as u mentioned! for the longest time i didn't wanna join Lolita because of the fat-shaming nonsense, im not obese but im not an xx-small, ive seen so many people get fat-shamed for being literally a medium.. i cant even imagine the amount of trash people get for being bigger to the standard of Lolita, people really need to grow up about it and stop pushing THEIR standards onto other people. it's sickening.. unfortunately, its just a big problem within the J- fashion communities, i love the fashion soo much and will always have a huge place in my heart! however, some people are definitely awful
Yes! It’s unfortunate how prevalent fat shaming is in jfashion, ESPECIALLY lolita for whatever reason 🙁 I’m hoping that we won’t have this issue in the next few years as zoomers seem to not tolerate stuff like this anymore!! Everyone should be able to enjoy the fashion regardless of how big or small they are 💞🎀
I believe the root of the problem (at least for Lolita) is brands like AP in the 2010s really not having diverse sizing. A good example of this is Cherry berry bunny: the OPs bust only is 33 inches (or 84cm) that’s pretty small even for AP. My theory is that the Lolita community at this time (live journal) believed that only girls that could fit that sizing were considered “cool” enough to wear the fashion. Nowadays AP definitely goes up to a women’s size M, and the community is much more accepting of bigger body types.
I can't stand gatekeepers who say "You're wearing it wrong" or "Not following the rules" When I can pull up tonnes of old-school street snaps of Lolita's in Japan wearing the same things. It doesn't matter to them though how much evidence I provide cause in their heads they'll always think it's wrong. I don't post pictures online anymore I just wear the fashion for myself.
No literally! I swear, it’s only people in the west who are crazy like this with the rules. Chinese lolita is very experimental and even Japanese Lolita is. I think it’s great that you wear it for yourself! You should do what makes YOU happy 💕🎀
I hear a lot of this stuff being complained about online and I do wonder if these kinda of behaviors are mostly unique to the American lolita community. I've been in lolita since 2020, never met any kind of "brandwhore" irl (even the most brand obsessed members of my comm wear offbrand/taobao shoes and blouses), my comm does group taobao/buyee/brand orders, we've never had any drama in all of that time so I find all of the stuff I hear about very surprising. Especially seeing my comm is a country-wide comm due to living in a smaller country.
Also a note on the blouse debate for any newbies in the comments, blouses are usually required in lolita because the addition of a collar or arm decor balances the top of your torso with all of the stuff going on the lower half of your torso with having such a large skirt. People who believe it to be a modesty thing are incorrect. Your frilly arm bands and full chest covering choker is a great example of a set that is designed to not need a blouse to any new-comers who are confused by the idea. Other great substitutes for blouses are mini capelets, cardigans, statement necklaces/chokers, long gloves and long armbands!
I’ve only been to one meetup ever (I live in an area not close to any big cities sadly :’D). Most of my interactions with other Lolita’s has been American ones online. So maybe it is more of an American thing to be more prestigious about brands 😅
Maybe this is also another mostly American lolita thing, but I’ve seen/heard of people get ripped to shreds online/at meetups for not wearing blouses, even if it’s done “properly” like the coord I’m wearing in the video. I’m glad to hear that for your country this doesn’t seem to be an issue though. Thank you for adding advice about blouses for newcomers into the fashion! ☺️🎀
american here and nah, you really don't see that attitude very often in the united states. i've been wearing lolita off and on since 2005, and i will admit that attitude used to be a lot more common when brand was really hard to get here because it was kind of treated like a status symbol by some people. you do still sometimes run into OG brand whores in the wild, but for me it's the same vibe as you get when running into someone's grandma who escaped containment at the old folks' home and still thinks nixon is president.
i think it's primarily an online phenomenon and usually it's people who have either not changed with the times or are just very insecure individuals themselves.
Been in the fashion since 2013 in america and I haven't met one either
Lol it's not unique to America.
@@ladyhrist That comparison is amazing 😭
someone in my comm called me for 2 hours and helped me set up a taobao account so sweet 😭😭
Speaking finding a Lolita Community , it’s like go to casino to gambling with a Luck approach , yeah finding a healthy community simply like grabbing a shining jackpot
, And I really feel , as Lolita Fashion is an Alternative Fashion Which the nature is conformist defying fashion , it’s simply unrealistic to think it should be stayed in stagnancy
I totally agree!! It’s unfortunate that finding a nice community is difficult to find considering that this is already a pretty niche community :( I think we need more open minded people to join this space so others don’t feel excluded and everyone can just have fun with beautiful fashion! 🎀
It's pretty hard to make it look like lolita without a blouse or petticoat, but you're doing a good job demonstrating blouseless can still be lolita!
Yeah, it really depends on the dress I guess! If it’s a dress with a print, you’ll definitely need a petticoat so you can see the print and so it’s not awkward looking. Definitely want to see more blouseless lolita coords! 🌟 I think it’s great especially if you live in a humid/hot environment like I do, so you can still be lolita but not overheating lol 😅🤣 I like seeing people put other things underneath their dresses as well like mesh or fishnet. It can make a really unique look! ☺️🎀
no because you're right
also i feel like a lot of old heads are the ones keeping these anon sites alive, new lolitas don't care as much or keep up with that old drama in comparision, there's a reason why activity there has dwindled, and you can kind of *tell* who the people who use these sites are based on how they type
It is nice to know that most newcomers into the fashion don’t engage with this type of online bullying/harassment. Not that it’s completely gone because tiktok and twitter exist, but the newer Lolita’s and younger generations are a lot more accepting compared to how the community was in the 2000s. I’m hoping that one day it’s truly a positive/helpful environment that everyone feels comfortable in! 🙏🏼💫
I feel it's only western lolitas that are this concerned about rules. I saw so many lolitas in Japan who don't wear petticoats and are known for experimental coords
It’s definitely the case. I’ve noticed even Chinese lolitas are very experimental with the fashion!
I think the whole blouse n certain rules has gotten alot better compared to how it is. As someone who lives in Texas many lolitas understand how not wearing a blouse in a coord is okay. Most lolitas are alright so long as you are following the given stuff that makes it lolita. I would like to see you make a tutorial though, becuase I always shop through resellers becuase even trying to follow some tutorials on youtube it sounded VERY confusing n alot! Maybe you can help with that n I can save some money :)
You’re right! I think the only people I’ve personally met who are a-ok with no blouses in coords are ones from hot climates. I guess its kinda hard to relate if you live in a mostly cool environment. I could totally make a tutorial! It can be pretty confusing and honestly, I haven’t seen a very thorough tutorial on how to shop / buy taobao, ESPECIALLY with kawaii fashion. So I’d love to post a video to help people save money when it comes to buying from there! ☺️💞🎀
I live in florida. Blouses make your coordinates look much better and more complete. There are ways you can prevent the sweat when your wearing a blouse, for example instead of wearing a blouse you can wear a chiffon cape or something light to cover your shoulders. If it’s hot for me, I just don’t wear Lolita until it gets cooler.
@@FrillyDisaster To each their own I seen many individuals wear no blouse n it look just as good n put together as it would be with one. Even major brands encourage no blouse at times don't have to stick to it always unless wanting.
@@xlittlelolipopx if you want to have a debate maybe check your spelling first so I can take your opinion more seriously. Also, what is your definition of “major” Lolita brands? Because angelic pretty, Baby the stars shine bright, Alice and the pirates, and Moi-Memê-Moitié all showcase there JSKs with blouses underneath there JSKs (unless there on Mannequins). The only brands that have models not wear blouses that I can think of are TaoBao brands which are known for there subpar quality compared to angelic pretty or baby.
@@FrillyDisaster I not debating is just known fact. You can have your preferences & opinions, doesn't mean they're right. Also you decided to comment under mine so that's on you
I think i needed to hear this. Most of my interactions with the community so far have made me afraid to interact with it at all its been so bad.
It’s unfortunate that the elitist type of Lolitas do exist, but I promise there’s also very nice Lolitas out there who genuinely want to help newcomers and give advice! 🙏🏼🎀
It's awful that the lolita community can be like that sometimes, but luckily I've had no problem avoiding this sort of thing. It's probably because I don't spend much time on the online part of the community, most of my time wearing or talking about lolita fashion is with my local comm who are all really nice people.
I’m glad to hear that you’ve had a positive and safe experience! I wish I was closer to a big city because the only way I can get to know other lolitas is online unfortunately 🙁 I think it definitely affects a person’s experience in the community if they’re able to go to comms / conventions as people will generally be a lot nicer in person. I’m hoping that in the future the lolita community can evolve to be kinder to newcomers or people who are different! 🙏🏼🎀
I'd love a taobao tutorial!
I’ll work on making one! ☺️🌟
tbh gatekeeping over brand i can deal with (anyone in 2023 who thinks you aren't a 'real lolita' if you aren't wearing head to toe AP in every coordinate is suffering from terminal online poisoning and needs to go touch grass), what bothers me more than anything is the racism and the fat shaming that i still see happening.
it's been better this past couple of years, but the lolita community absolutely still has a reputation for bullying people who aren't thin and pale and conventionally attractive, and it's not undeserved. as a plus size lolita i actually stumbled across comments about me before on 4chan a few years ago and it was very hurtful. i can't in all good conscience tell new lolitas "don't let it get to you" because it will get to you. no matter how thick a skin you have or how much confidence you might normally have or try to project, strangers being shitty to you will always make you feel unwanted.
we've come farther as a community than i ever hoped we could in that regard, but there is so much more we could and should be doing for each other.
(OH also-- every lolita i've ever met with a big brand closet has spent YEARS and $$$ building that collection, very very few people in this fashion are actually wealthy enough to maintain the kind of spending habits brand elitists want to imply we all have, which makes their attitudes even *more* baffling lol. most of us own at least one non-brand piece, usually way more than that)
Yes! Honestly it’s crazy that this is such a prevalent issue within the lolita community considering how many poc + plus size Lolita’s I’ve seen myself. You’re right as in it’s gotten a bit better than how it was in like, the 2000s, but there is still an insane amount of a-holes unfortunately, particularly online. It’s hard to ignore if a negative comment is made towards you tbh. I think the best way to deal with it is to block the person, let yourself get upset about it, and move on knowing that the person who made comments to you is really miserable themselves.
It is weird how brand elitists act like that considering most of them aren’t “rich.” I know most Lolita’s I’ve seen (myself included) it’s taken them years to build closets, so it’s odd when you see people acting all “mightier than thou” when it comes to how much brand they have and wear.
For what you said about brand “girls”. Not only are good looking angelic pretty dresses hard to find resell, there also simply overpriced for what your getting. Often times people on lace market will charge up to 2 times more then the original price despite the dresses being average to damaged quality. I suggest not buying these listings until you find a dress you feel is worth it’s asking price.
You’re so right!!! I very rarely shop on lacemarket as it’s become kind of overpriced in recent years… particularly AP. I know that Depop gets bad rep from being “overpriced”, but I’ve found so many lolita dresses on there for great prices. I was able to do a trade recently with someone to get the purple color way of sugary carnival + kc ☺️🎀
Many AP prints are very popular which is why the dresses often have a high resale price. However, for some prints you only have to look at Fril and Mercari (the auctions there are only accessible via a shopping service, or you live in Japan). The secondhand market in Japan is not so bad as far as prices are concerned. However, you should always keep in mind that most prints are not mass-produced but in limited numbers, so the price is of course based on the retail price and how rare a dress is. Each dress has a certain limit of comfort for everyone as far as the prices are concerned. What must also be considered is that new dresses now cost 380 USD at Angelic Pretty. I don't think this is justified, but you can't expect the dress to be resold for 100 USD and less, especially if the dress was not unpopular.
On the subject of damage, it always depends on what exactly it is. Some simply do not dare to wash the dresses, which is why they then have stains. Therefore, the price, with easily washable stains, must not necessarily be below the original price. I think that you can not say that across the board.
At the end of the day, I would still like to see cheaper prices, of course, but you also have to understand that what was not cheap before, must not necessarily be cheaper in resale.
Can you do a room tour ( ◜‿◝ )♡ Ur room looks so cute!
Absolutely!! I’m planning on putting two videos out soon on an official room tour and one where I’m in the process of giving it a makeover ☺️💞🎀
I'm from the Netherlands and have been wearing lolita (and part of the community) during 2003~2009 and 2018~present. I would describe my local comm as drama free. I have not bumped into what I would consider to be gatekeeping at all offline or online, in my local comm or worldwide. Information on anything (incl how to use taobao) was freely shared with me.
I don't understand why anyone would gatekeep taobao. I mean it's a great resource and it's widely used within the community but to be blunt, nobody actually sees it as something special that they want to keep a secret. And even if someone considers a certain store on taobao as something special, it's been my experience that lolitas tend to want to share information about the things they love.
Elitism, it's so rare these days IME. I used to see it more often (legit "brandwhores" who thought they were superior because their whole outfit was jpn brand) back when it was a little bit more difficult to buy brand items, but these days it's so easy that it is no longer a status symbol. The term "brandwhore" is most often used in a more neutral and positive way these days, usually it only means someone who really loves a brand as opposed to someone who thinks wearing brand makes them superior. I don't think anyone is getting kicked out of the meetup because they wear taobao/chinese indie brand or bodyline.
Cost; I mostly shop the secondhand market but to be fair, and realistic, 50$ for a jpn brand dress is a really good deal and you won't often see those deals. It's also really difficult to build a wardrobe on a low income. It's not a cheap hobby even if you opt for the options that cost the least. Some of these beautiful wardrobes we see online took 10 years or more to build. A lot of people wait until they have a decent income to start buying lolita stuff. I know it's frustrating for teenagers wanting to get into the fashion but to be honest and realistic (which I think is also being kind) most teenagers can't afford it. Most jpn brand's target demographic is women 20~45yo. Most people in the comm aren't paying 500$ per dress though. Most dresses don't cost that much if you buy them straight from the brand. I hate it when someone says "I can't afford a 500$ dress, therefore brandwhores don't consider me a real lolita/it's okay if I buy a replica/I won't buy jpn brand/etc" because it's such a misrepresentation of reality.
Rules; I don't think the "blouse under jsk" guideline (it's a guideline, not really a rule) is because of modesty. It's, imo, probably more about balancing out details. A jsk with nothing underneath and nothing on the arms and wrists can make the arms and wrists look bare and empty. There are other ways to balance it out that don't require a blouse. I don't think anyone who rigidly says "you must wear a blouse under a jsk, no exceptions" knows what they're talking about.
I personally like the cake recipe analogy regarding the rules/guidelines since it allows for creativity within bounds. You can substitute some ingredients, or leave some out (break some rules/guidelines), but once you break too many it's no longer a cake (stops being lolita). I think the idea that lolita just requires a certain silhouette is oversimplified. In most spaces concrit is also regulated, so if someone doesn't want any all they have to do is opt out.
Drama sites; CGL on 4chan and behind the bows (which is now closed afaik) are isolated spaces, so you won't see any of that content unless you visit them yourself. That aspect of the community will always be there, and I don't recommend going there unless you can ignore all of the negativity.
Giving unsolicited comments on someone's coord on their own personal social media page is just so weird.
I think the mandatory blouse thing is due to the fact that japanese brands feature coordinates w jsk AND blouses because culturally in japan people do not show their shoulders or clavicles :o even outside of EGL I noticed there are few peopel wearing tank tops and even summer dresses are worn w a t shirt underneath, so I think it's just a cultural inheritage, idk if it's the same in China because chinese EGL brands tend to do the same though
I could see it being a cultural thing honestly! With a lot of Chinese brands, I’ve actually noticed that there are a good amount of JSKs that don’t need blouses. I think maybe the “no blouse” look is more popular in China than other areas for EGL. For me, as someone who’s lived in the US and is now living in Italy, people wear a lot of tank tops and crop tops during the summer or even in Spring / Autumn! So again, it may be a cultural thing ^^
@@wickedbunniez yep same in southern france:) you can find people hanging out in bras or bare chested (rarer) even in the city or not directly close to the sea! You wouldn't find anyone in crop tops in Japan or at least not in mainstream fashion
Yes please make a tutorial on how to use taobao I have no idea what a proxy or anything like that is and I'm really struggling 😭
I'm not much into Lolita fashion. But for the blouse thing, I thought that this rule is maybe mainly because of Japanese culture.
The Victorian era was not that ''modest'' - But while I find many aspects of Japanese culture interesting, we should not forget the misogyny there.
There are many schools for example where it is normal to have rules like ,,The hair should cover a neck and ponytails aren't allowed because it might irritate the boys''
So covering up as much as possible and being as modest as possible is a thing that some Japanese women do, to be safe from being criticized.
There is this UA-camr who explains a lot about fashion in Japan and how many rules there are for women that are about being modest.
Meanwhile, as I know, Lolita fashion is about to be cute. So using modesty rules seems to be a little weird. Like - you can be cute and sexy. But a blouse doesn't make you more modest or less sexy when you want to look like that. I kind of know people who are into Lolita fashion hate comparisons to young people (not only children) but I want to draw a comparison with them in mind.
You would NEVER say that a child is not ''modest'' (I don't know a better word, since English is not my first language) because it runs around with only underwear. Because a child does not intend to be - attractive in that sort of way. And that's a thing I have in mind when it comes to adult fashion as well. As long as it is intended to look modest - it is. So when you don't want to wear a blouse - it should be fine.
Very well said!! 👏🏼 I agree, maybe it is more of a Japan thing as I have heard as well that they don’t allow ponytails in some schools because ‘the neck is sexual’ ??? Like someone with a neck fetish clearly made that one up because what the hell! 🤣
As for people comparing lolita fashion to children, I also think it’s odd because since when have children worn petticoats and fully decorated outfits recently? It’s even WEIRDER when people take lolita as a “sexual “ thing because why does a woman wearing something cutesy = pedophile bait? At least that’s how they think here in the US, where alot of people think cute or feminine things = infantilizing yourself.
@@wickedbunniez I would not see it that way. At the end of the day it depends on how the whole outfit feels. The dresses are very pompous, especially due to the petticoat and there it sometimes seems very unbalanced when certain things are simply skipped. Of course, everyone can wear what everybody wants but still the outfit can appear a bit unbalanced.
In what I see e.g. of your outfit in the video it fits simply from the style to leave out the blouse (the rest I can not see unfortunately) but if you have also left out the socks then it is balanced.
I would describe it in that way ~ you are wearing thick winter clothes: sweater, winter jacket, boots, hat and scarf ~ but then wear shorts with it ... that just seems unbalanced (apart from that, that you won't feel your leggs anymore on a cold winter day xD)
I personally think you should have a blouse but if your cords good then it’s fine. In old school style demonia a doc martins were worn all the time
Your accessories are all so cute! Do you make any of them? 🎀
Thank you! ☺️💞 actually everything I’m wearing is from Claire’s or taobao! :) 🌟
I've been involved with Lolita for the past five years or so, and wear it daily in public. My experience thus far has been that the nimbus of hate rotates far more over the AP brand, than any other brand. Yeah, you can find your avid Meta followers, but the venom, the hatred, the ignoring of anyone who doesn't wear AP is always by people who only wear AP. I find this particularly true on social media when you follow someone and leave positive comments that they never, ever, ever reply to. I've also left an anti AP comment here and there, because I think their brand promotes eating disorders on some level, and industry leaders have actually DELETED my comments and then blamed it on the UA-cam algorithm. No joke. If there is poison in Lolita, it's intricately tied to the AP brand and those who follow it. 💔
I don't think guys who wear suits have this problem. Most my stuff is used off ebay.
I think it’s easier to find men’s wear for lolita than women’s wear tbh. The women’s wear is very particular for the style, so you need a dress to be able to fit a petticoat and such!
I love the outfit 😭🫶
Thank you so much!! ☺️🤍*:･ﾟ
First❤
Hey queen! 👑💞
Hallo 🙋♀️
Hello there! ☺️🌟
@@wickedbunniez how are you today peoples?
@@HaruUraHH20 I am doing well! How are you? ☺️
your princess coord 🩵✨🩵✨🩵✨