I think there’s an issue of fairness. Not everyone wants to self fund a new outfit and some talents might not be able to for various reasons. But if they don’t but all their genmates do, they’ll feel like they’re falling behind and get pressured. Thus Cover just makes it a rule so there’s no pressure to keep up.
The problem is that management doesn't seem to distribute the outfits "fairly" either. Some talents have a ton of outfits, while others barely have any. Gen 4 infamously had no outfits for an incredibly long time.
@@KyokujiFGC I'm sure there are many interlocking behind-the-scenes reasons for this that we will never get a straight answer for. None of them are "incompetence" or "malice".
Pretty sure it's because and as weird as it is say, there designs/characters belong to Cover. They want to protect the image of their company, so in a way I understand. But come on Irys hasn't had a single new outfit since debut. That's ridiculous.
I doubt its this and more so that some of them obviously make way more money than others. You would have the upper end of Hololive streamers cranking out new outfits and assets while others simply could not afford to do so. In my opinion I think they should be able to invest their own money into their streams in any way they see fit, much like investing in your own business to see it grow to new heights. This is why we see them putting money into 6 figure plus animations, albums, and other non-outfit projects since its the only reinvestments their allowed to make. It appears to me that the limit is in place so Cover can try and keep all of their talents on a similar playing field.
I think there's a disconnect between the fans' point of view and the marketers'. Think of any anime character - Asuka, for instance. Asuka's design is marketable, and Miyamura Yuko is her seiyu. But people don't see Miyamu as BEING Asuka; she just provides the voice. I think the marketers are thinking about the vtuber characters in the same way. But for fans, IRyS the character and the voice are one in the same; in fact, I think most would consider the person as being the "real" IRyS.
Keep in mind that any new outfits IRyS will be having will use her 2.0 as the basis, and not her current appearance. Much easier to do that than to commission an outfit for her current appearance only for it it be phased out.
@@Alynis_ Yeah, I don't believe it. They have models given to them, and so they belong to the company, not to the talent and so they are not allowed to modify it. That's plain and simple. Leveling the playing field between what they sell is a losing strategy for companies. They have popular products, niche products and cheap products, each catering to a specific demographic, and they will change as they see fit to tank losses or make a profit. Why they release new outfits in a controlled manner is because outfit reveals are a huge event, so is a profit incentive to hype the public between the talents every so often, and to not appear as if treating the talents unfairly they give this treatment to all.
They might have found a way to circumvent it by initially claiming it's HoloEN so it's different, and in the context of no 3D for Myth, with Ame making her own makeshift 3D, Ame and her manager might have overruled the Cover HQ grasp on costumes. HiRys _is_ HoloEN technically as well, but being in Japan, being able to go to the studio, and being part of their "VSinger" project, she might be under Cover's direct supervision.
I think it only applies to official outfits for live2D and doesn't apply to anything 3D related. The entire Myth, CouncilRYS as well as HoloID2 used several unofficial 3D models.
Also another reason would be the quality control as well. It's impossible to survey over +100 outfits at once. It will be a lot of work to constantly give feedbacks back and forth, with constant large volume of workload. Also the number of available top notch riggers are finite. They might end up hiring someone who's less experienced in the field to do the task. Now that's a quality control nightmare!
So the solution is no creative powers to the talent? Let's look at Myth for an example. The first outfit they obviously get no input on as it is the basis for the character you audition for. The third outfit was New Years set so again, you get no choice on the theme. The fourth outfit was party attire so, again, you don't get to go against that theme. The only outfit they probably got to choose a THEME for was the second one. Now on 3/4 I am sure they could give input on designs, but no matter what they WERE getting a Kimono and nothing they say would ever change that.
As much as I like her silly side, it's cool to see how mature she can be. I can't imagine how frustrated she feels. She's also putting out some good songs too like Gravity.
Well, the talents don't own their models, so it makes sense that the outfits couldn't be owned by them either since it's just another version of the model. But IRyS is LONG overdue for some action on hers.
Yes the answer is so simple, Their character model is owned by company, so they cant do anything about it without permission.. and i also agree with you, cmon IRyS need news outfit too, its already one year since shes debut.
Well, it makes perfect sense since funding a merch does require a lot of people to even produce them. Even if you have the money to do so, the amount of individuals you have to have them made are also important
_> Exception like: pekora's jail outfit_ Yes, we know that Pekora commissioned it without telling the Management is bigbrain move. Then *Pekorism2 artbook* came out _(the main reason why Pekora took so long to choose a "Marketable and Appealing to the fans" outfit )_ _>i wonder what pekora 1M wishes?_ Lottery Ticket and Horse gambling ticket
I can also imagine that some of the talents that get more income would have way more outfits than others and it would feel kinda unfair to both the talents and the fans
I don't think that's the reason. They're allowed to invest their own money into other things-backgrounds, assets, songs, animations, videos, etc.-and it doesn't seem to cause any problems for anyone. Watame is probably the best example of this, with her weekly-ish "Watame Did Borderline Nothing Wrong" series (which I'm pretty confident she doesn't make herself), commissioning custom art every month for her members, and a large number of covers and original songs. If that isn't a problem, I can't imagine how an outfit would be. I don't know, but I'd guess it's a combination of copyright considerations and image preservation. The characters belong to Cover, so figuring out who owns exactly how much and which parts of personal outfits would be legally messy. And Hololive has a certain aesthetic to it, so Cover will want to maintain that aesthetic and keep it recognizable, which would be infinitely harder to do if they freely allowed custom outfits.
That fairness for everyone, so no pressure to someone in the company, because fans may sometimes pressure their oshi just to see a new outfit and some people may not want that. Meanwhile a certain pink mouse, changes outfit/avatar like they change clothes every day
im guessing one of the exceptions is the 3D models. They likely gave Ame a little bit of leanway for her VR model (possibly because the Smol Ame model was easy to make, quality control, rig, etc. compared to a new outfit im assuming) and then she took that inch and got a mile out of it. The fact it let them play VR games without needing a full high-quality 3D model probably helped with that. It seemed to smooth the way for the others getting the Goofy Halloween models, then the Beeg-smol models. The Beeg Smol Models looked higher quality than the other VRChat models others got with alot of expressions and extra toggles but that was likely due to Sana's Graduation
Manpower, workload, there just ain't too many resources to do outfits like daily pancakes. On top of that, copyright infringement can potentially be a problem. So I understand IRyS up to the point where she couldn't get new costumes prepared on time.
The amount of effort that goes into them is understandable. What's criminally not understandable is how everyone else keeps getting outfits while IRyS still hasn't gotten a single update since debut.
@@juni5822 Thats because , ironically , she will get a new model that is easier to get outfits and is more inline with the Aesthetic/artstyle of everyone else , Cover did droped the ball on that sense , but she did was going to get a new years outfit along with everyone else but choose the new model instead
They’re not the creator, but I assumed they paid for the design and should therefore own it? It’s like when a company pays a designer to come up with a logo for them. If the design still belongs to the original artist, it defeats the purpose of paying them to make the design in the first place.
Like a baseball team owns a mascot, Cover Corp owns the image rights of "Irys," not the person inside. So she doesn't hold the rights to modify or change her appearance. The exception is Suisei, who designed her own model and brought it into the company when she was hired. Even then, she may have signed over the rights of her image for marketing purposes.
It's also a matter of brand recognition. If a talent only gets a new outfit once every 9-15 months, then the audience has time to learn to recognize that model instantly. Plus it makes new outfits reveals all the more special.
This is the true answer. Many times you google a talents name they will appear in their original debut outfits. To give an example, ironmouse has like 5(more or less) different versions of herself all looking vastly different from one another. Newer viewers will be confused which version is her "main" one. She's an extreme case to use as example but you get the point
THIS!! why people go with their wild theories without realizing this, imagine getting new outfits every week, it wont feel special anymore. and outfits dont make profit!, why waste big money on outfits when you can make songs, albums, and big projects that will make profit
This is kinda why I have problems getting attached to a vtuber like Ironmouse, it seems like every other month her design/model changes into a completely different person.
from this you can see how Rushia has special permission since she change the outfits and hair colors quite many then other members who used their special permission : Pekora : her "prison outfit" from her own fund Flare : she dislike her original outfit so she change it Korone : she's DOOG, of course and there's special case like Nene who her original design outfit similiar with certain glass hearted country.
Rushia, Pekora had high donation. I can't say anything about Flare except she might already request for a change for quite some time. She had that look for a long time.
@@thejamesonthestreet Flare also eventually changed up her old default outfit for her current one because she wasn't comfortable with the image her original appearance was giving, i.e. it was giving her a tomboyish vibe, when in fact she was more on the cute side. It's the same reason why she used her alternate school outfit more often once she got it compared to her original appearance.
@@thejamesonthestreet Mel having glorious cleavage on stream but she still fine, like othe Comment said, she 'hate' the design, since it not represent her, she says she not cool or sexy like that. you can see on her first year she act like cool lady, she had enough and feel restrained by doing that, thats why now she more goofy and cute.
The real issue is probably ownership, if the talent fund an outfit that outfit is their property not Hololive's or Cover's, and Cover probably want to keep the complete IP of the character, even if they are one off (when the person behind the vtuber leave hololive all their model will never be used anymore)
Yeah, this was my thought. It puts them in a messy position with regards to ownership and whether they're operating in a personal capacity or on behalf of the company
Changing your outfit too often tends to dilute the brand recognition, this is why Icons like Mario, Mickey and Sonic always have the same outfit. It makes them easily racognizable on all promo mediums. Look at the indie scene, some vtubers change model often or drastically and if you're not a fan you can easily mistake them for a different one.
There are more things. Legally, when they'd fund it themselves, the ownership of the assets would become complicated and dubious. Also, it would mean higher earning vtubers would naturally have access to more and better assets, which may or may not be a thing already (I suspect Hololive approaches this more on a per-branch/gen basis), but this would accelerate that even further. The manpower issue could be problem as well, especially for seasonal stuff like summer or Christmas when everyone wants everything at the same time.
I think from her hand in a lot of the at home 3d streams, editing experience, and general love for projects outside of her own channel, Hololive is grooming her for roles outside of streaming. Almost like what Coco wanted to do as a talent/manager. I have no idea how she makes time for all of this.
@@MegaSimmaster well she barely does any projects in her channel, see how most of her things was dropped now... all she do is make something new everytime then make something grand... now that takes talent... being able to come up something new time after time...
I imagine Marine had to push really hard for her swimsuit to be possible too, because I can imagine Cover saying no, but sometimes you have to put your foot down and stand by it
Swimsuit is a different matter, tho. It's more like UA-cam stomped down any exposed booba, although admittedly Cover did overly worried about it. Then again, they might be traumatized by the previous incendent, so I can see why they are being extra careful
2019 Hololive Summer frankly had sluttier swimsuits than Senchou has. It's not Cover, it's youtube. Remember, Senchou's channel was full-on *deleted* one day out of the blue. Cover ofc does not want that to happen again.
@@thejamesonthestreet youtube really ban any sexy looking anime characters, it not secret , you can see Japan viewer started using word BAN just how those hit company vtuber usually and they also has trauma for that. Subaru, Mio, HoloSummer just one of many examples, not include indie one.
I think a main part of it is for merch stuff; since merch has to be planned in advance, and if cover weren't apart of the whole process of making a model and design, it'd be a lot worse for making merch for said new design since they'd just be a 3rd wheel in the design process, or literally wouldn't be able to "apply" the design until after the showcase making merch and stuff months behind
By this point though she is really only using models that were created after she joined, so she probably still has some form of agreement to try and maintain the same pace as the other girls. There may well be something special written in to the contract relating to who owns them though since the character was her own creation. But we'll probably never know what the exact terms are between them.
I think the special exception could be the Sololive. All members who have performed a live concert in front of live audience have a special 3D outfit for the event: Sora, Suisei, Watame, Calli and most recently Okayu.
@@thegemguy1334 but didn't pekora fund her prison outfit, and korone fund her furball too? (not saying this is a bad thing, i am really happy both of them go to do it because pekora seemed really upset back then and i love korone, just wondering why they could be exceptions)
@@doggosuki I don't know about the detail of Korone fur ball so can't say. But Pekora prison outfit was given exception because her official 2nd outfit was delayed while the rest of gen3 already got theirs. Cover had to compromise because the fault of the delay was theirs if I recall correctly.
@@thegemguy1334 yeah and moreover back then Pekora was JP's No. 1 most subscribed in addtion with top 10 SC earning and she has the most concurrent viewer, yet she havent got new costume. Understandable compromise
that's probably to not have disparity in the same gen immagine if one member go and have 5-6 outfit meanwhile her genmate have 2, also usualy outfit are made with a common concept for all the generation members, also like she said there are special occasion like kiara outfit for i think the 1 milion sub
But that actually already was the case in some gens. Remember Rushia had like 5 or 6 models while it took Pekora 3 years to get an official new outfit (not counting the prisoners outfit which I think she commissioned herself)
@@AndreaRebek I mean kinda I guess but even now still aren’t even. For example Botan is on her 4th new outfit while Nene, Polka and Lamy are still on their 2nd. I guess we’ll see if the rest of the gen will be getting more outfits soon as well.
@@chadasmr8304 I don't remember which one talked about it, but one of the girls said that Cover doesn't hand out costumes on any kind of schedule or rules-based system. If the talents want a new outfit, they have to ask for it. Outfit inequality is likely mostly do the frequency with which talents petition for them.
It's cause they have to use art approved by cover at least and use their in house riggers and proprietary rigging software cause on top of being like the management team cover develops this technology and sells it or leases the use of it in other commercial products and what better advertisement for that than their talents all using it but that means they need to tailor a good experience for advertising it
first and foremost you guys should understand they are from vtuber agency, they don't own their name and model (there are exceptions, but this is hololive). also company want quality control to keep their brand in a good name
Funny, I said the girls had to fund their own videos, 3d concerts and everything a few months back on the Hololive subreddit. Downvoted to oblivion and told that Cover wouldn't make the girls pay for this stuff, even though Moona herself said in english that she was saving up to pay for a 3d concert. Now Irys comes out and says it, now everyone finally knows it and is OK with it. Although, I'm pretty sure Watame had commissioned her T-Rex hoodie in some part herself. Atleast that's what every translation had put up when she was talking about it. Believe it was for the extra hairstyle, and the 2 animations, unzipping and it chewing on her. So while I don't think she paid for the model, I think at the same time as the model they can pay for extras to go along with it is what Watame was saying.
Astel must be pulling some mad strings then to be able to pretty much almost self-fund his own 3D debut but also pay for a whole redesign for his character. I guess it was because it was for his 3D debut that Cover kinda made an exception for him.
Actually he said that in his 3d debut it got denied a lot like his requests and make him stressed out. He actually wanted to quit but his manager (Shinove-san) help him to make it happen.
@@thejamesonthestreet On top of that their is an IP to deal with. The state of the law on the ownership and controle of the model is not clear, the model is clearly their but the personality and likeness behind probably isn't. Hololive tear down youtube chanels of member that departed on unfriendly terms for that reason. If the member then modify the models or pay someone to modify the models it becomes even greyer since the member would potentially own the modified IP, I don't know if their is precedents for this but if their isn't I can imagine hololive not wanting to go through the legal battle to find out.
@@gavinkemp7920 it is clear that the copyright owner of the character and its likeness are owned by Cover. The talent *might* have some input about the character's name and maybe some design, but they then relinquish their rights of their contribution. If they want to fund some changes, they must gain permission or even license, even then chances are they will be asked to, again, relinquish their rights. So to prevent any potential conflict, Cover as the copyright owner would just straight up forbid such practice. Tho, there are exception, but Cover wont just keep giving exception and even in such exception, Cover must've been the one in control. What I said in the previous comment was just simple analogy.
Cover probably wants some creative control over how the characters are presented as well. If every talent could just fund their own costumes then you'd have all kinds of outfit that the company may or may not be cool with. There also comes an issue of having varying degrees of quality of the talents didn't use the same designers and riggers as cover.
More than likely it's due to Cover owning the model. If she paid for things that could only work for that particular model and she graduated, that could potentially open Cover to liability. Everything else is an asset that is not part of her model. I doubt they could keep it, but something tells me if they graduated, they'd be given some sort of compensation for it if they decided to add stuff here and there such as a room. Some people say fairness but I find that difficult to believe as Cover JP seems to be the one who has the most say in things while EN and ID seem to be more supportive branches. I only say this because everything seems to revolve around HoloJP's Cover. It's why we don't see 3D outside of Japan (As inconvenient as that is) and why it takes an eternity just to see an outfit reveal outside of HoloJP. I personally think it's just the legalities of it.
Downside with a company is that it is indeed not up to them on when they can get outfits. And what really sucks for Irys is that its been this long and stull nothing... Council also needs casual outfits as well. I'm assuming commissions a lot more expensive now hence the long waits etc.
Also they use a separate in-house program for lots of the vtuber stuff. It’s why they are a bit behind like Vshojo in terms of stuff the models can do. They only recently got the ability to stick things to themselves which was around in vtubestudio a long time ago. In-house programming allows micromanaging and failsafes at every step to prevent accidents. Makes sense from a liability and talent protection standpoint but it can certainly hamper creativity at times.
Not only is it behind in features, it also seems to be highly unoptimised since the prop model pin feature seems to eat up performance even on their 2d rigs. I get that they are focusing more on their 3D live stuff and also home 3d. But we see the talents 2d models 90% of the time except for gen 0, the least they can do is expedite the R&D for their proprietary app especially since they pride themselves as a tech company
Yeah, hololive as a tech company has to make everything in house. I think the rigging programs and 3d tech is suppose to be the base for any video games and software they release later on, but it's hard when you're developing this with a small team. They're competing with very big optimized players.
Sounds like it has to do with brand recognition. Changing up an outfit or style can make one less visible or recognizable as being part of Hololive or being themselves.
That doesn't seem like a whole hololive thing, people buying their own outfits would have been the explanation for how rushia's wardrobe was bigger than my irl one while pekora had less clothes than a hobo, and I'm pretty sure pekora comissioned her jailhouse outfit
I don't remember who talked about it (might have been Pekora), but one of them said that Cover doesn't give out outfits on any kind of schedule or accomplishment basis. If the talents want a new outfit, they have to ask for it. So what probably happened is Rushia often asked for new outfits, and Pekora never did.
Yeah.... That clip when Korone said she couldnt use the furball suit anytime she wanted but i dont remember the reason... i guess is the same what Irys said. The time when Irys gets a new outfit would be a great day though
@@zeroxjac1 would it be fair to make a gamers furball version or everyone needs to have one? 🤔if the first then fubuki would have it, remember she's gen1 who's also in hologamers
@@sirempanada2468 It was more about what Korone *thought,* which was not necessarily reality. (Referring to her saying Holomem might get upset) And based on the translation (it was a Jshay clip) it feels like she was more concerned about _certain fans_ that like to make drama about the smallest stuff.
Makes sense. The skills needed to help make a new Vtuber outfit are kinda specialized and niche so it makes sense that even Cover wouldn't have enough people to really make new outfits on a quicker basis. Hope this means that they're giving staff breaks and what not and not over working anyone.
I think it has less to do with that, and more to do with the fact that Cover doesn't see it as a great investment to do it more than x amount of times per year. The outfits are all outsourced anyway.
What irys couldn't say is their models are owned bye cover and if they make any changes those parts are owned bye them which could cause an ugly legal dispute later
It feels like the EN girls have a lot of bias against them from Cover. They don’t seem to have the same liberties as the JP branch. The JP girls seem to have more freedom to play around with their outfits and they tend to put out more projects. There’s also way more JP members, so it seems like Cover is making them the priority.
this makes sense if you think of giving the girls some semblance of a leveled playing field.. it would be unfair if one of the girls because she's in a better financial situation, ordered more outfits, or if they get a unit outfit, she gets higher quality one then the rest, because she sunk more money into it.. it would force competition and make the girls spend more then healthy on their models
A lot of people forgetting or don't know that IRyS is getting a model redesign so that's the reason why the current model isn't getting any outfits as it'll be on the new model For any new outfit to happen the new model needs to be done first
i guess that it also has to do with the fact that if there where outfit reveals for every talent like every month it would lose a bit of it charm? don't get me wrong, i'd love to see my oshi rocking a new outfit every week, but cover has to have the whole picture in mind
I'm assuming the "certain exceptions" are VRChat models? It's a different organization, but the Nijisanji EN/ID members have stated that they commissioned their own VRChat models, and I'm assuming the same has been true for Hololive EN so far. I think the exception also requires that these self-funded unofficial models be made to look distinctly different from their official models, too? It would explain why all of their VRChat models are chibi versions, but that's just a guess on my end. I know Selen said that she needed to explicitly state that the VRChat models that she used weren't "official" models provided by the company.
Probably, yeah. Basically Hololive seems fine with it because it's something for doing content. Especially when 3D is so difficult for them to do outside of Japan.
well funding there own outfit can cause many problems like someone has bigger SC earning and some one has lowest SC earning someone can afford so many and some people can only afford once in year that gonna break the talent equality it's like same treatment to all people if you are with 4m sub or 100k sub. (i think that thought process they are working with)
I think it's fair, cus their models belong to the company. If they funded the outfit themselves, it will become ambiguous who owns the models, and can possibly create problems.
Considering the amount of complaints over time with regards the rigging for some models and how Cover is always said to be understaffed, yeah that checks out (and it's not like they can just hire on a whim, that's how you end with crap employees), and that's before we even get into how some people will get really obnoxious about how some members would get new outfits more often than others.
Yes, employment at hololive has been pretty tough since the start of the company. Gen 1 lost a member due to what sounds like really fucked up manipulation by a higher up. Some creep payed for the tech setup needed to stream in return for sexual favors. Really sad that she was thrown under the bus because of it. 2nd and more well known case is Mel's harrassment by a former staff member that became dangerously attached to her. She took an almost year long hiatus because of it but this time Hololive actually backed her up. These two insidents make hiring tough because they have to know the candidate isn't a creep, won't leak stuff, and has to do their job well. Just look at how many managers some of the JP girls go through and you'll see the turn around rate.
Not everyone can be Brian Tsui. There are so many vtubers and rigging projects in general to make that even 1000 Brian Tsuis aren't enough. Edit: The comment section makes a lot of evaluations. They're all possible, but some could be more improbable than others. If you think it's something selfish like regulating the members and forcing some standard, I'd doubt it. In the first place, it's taken this long to get iRyS's new design and it's STILL not ready yet. It can really just be not enough manpower. Simply because they want specific artists and riggers for the job. Every artist have very unique styles. Every rigger has their own understanding of physics and skills in establishing them. And while it would be an honor to work for hololive, they can't put Hololive ahead of others. Rigging in itself is already a long process. Let's say the rigging process takes 2 weeks(highly likely it'd be much higher). If the rigger has 10 vtubers to rig, that'd be 20 weeks. Then there's rest days. Let's give them 2 per week. That's 40 days, which is pretty much 6 weeks. So it'd take 26 weeks for a rigger to get through 10 models. That's almost 7 months. Another reason iRyS couldn't get a new outfit could be because they wanted to transition to the new model first before deciding on giving a new outfit. So after the transition, it'll probably be 3 months or 6 months until the new outfit. And it isn't exactly thrilling to tell her old papa artist that she's being ripped from him and being adopted to another papa/mama. Not that I would know if it's the same papa that'll be making the new model. But I personally found this model creepy on first impression, sad to say. I'm guessing it'll be like AZKi anyway
I mean, your model is the one become part of the agency and it's birth required your parents... Mama/papa that obviously in contract or negotiated by the agency so it's obviously not that easy to simply do self funding... Except if you're indie and close to your creator
Everyone finding out Hololive Vtubers can't fund their own costume designs meanwhile I'm here like "Wait, the people who makes those designs don't do it for free?"
Lul artists work on commission, especially since they hire big name artists and mangakas who also work in anime industry (for example mumei's designer) so yes it will cost them, a lot (char/outfit design is one person, rigging is another so that's 2 people you are commissioning for so imagine a whole gen getting new outfits at the same time)
A new model in their standards costs a couple grand each, yeah. It's all haute couture, basically. No automation besides the systems the artists and riggers use, and company/branch/gen branding is different from solo branding. That,too, has a cost.
Why should they work for free? For example Dyarikku who makes awesome models and riggs told on stream that major models cost more than 20k. Veibae paid like 40k for her new model and all the stuff she needed
I have a genuine question, in this case what would separates that, to 3d models like ame having bee ame or ripped or smol myth or council. Are they not the same?
That's actually different than I expected. I assumed their models were to be the property of the company, and the Holo members were just permitted to use as they saw fit during employment. From there, would make sense to not want a bunch of costumes or models without careful consideration from the company and the future. Just my assumption before the video.
If I was to guess then it's clear Ame is one of the exceptions but I also think that's more likely part of an ongoing business plan. Ame seems to be heading in the direction of being Cover's English office so she can experiment with 3D studios and projects that can then be fed back into Cover. Because it's a lot harder to get the EN girls all to Japan it makes a lot more sense to have an EN set up office to allow them to get recordings to merge with the JP internal projects. Also with Ame covering a lot of the setting up Cover isn't shouldering a lot of loss for the initial set up and gets far more benefit.
Imagine Redjuice drop project HOPE and ReDrop or Pako pick it up instead. Holo will go full FGO. If Hope get pick up by ReDrop, we can expect IRyS will have 3 separate forms for both lore and culture purpose.
knowing that they do not own their own model and knowing how much avatars normally cost these days, it won't be a good idea to fund it with their own money, because what if they graduate one day, then money go poof.
End of the day its not their model, its Covers. So I think investing in something you don'y own is a bad idea even if they were allowed. Probs brings into question who owns what if they are funding it
its simple, the model ther using is company own......if u want to have freedom in ur outfit then go independent, and i can see Irys will be fine being one, she has a lot of supporter even before she become hololive
in nijisanji talents can fund their own outfit and (og song) but they cant bring it with them when graduated. Some ex graduated member sad they cant bring their og song with them
Probably a combination of Cover actually owning the IP and wanting to control it (as they should!), of fairness (some would have far, FAR more funds than others), of customer relations ("Give me money so I can have a new outfit!" can work with Independants, but when you've got a "giant corporation" (Cover) behind Holo, that's going to come across much more negatively) and probably a whole lot of Planning to make sure that new outfits don't come across as nickel and diming customers. Like if Talent A released a new model - and Merch - on the 1st, then Talent B released a new model - and Merch - on the 15th, and Talent C released a new model - and Merch - on the next 1st, it would strike many people as being nickel and diming fans. So release it all on the schedule of Talent C, and even if fans spent the exact same amount of money, they wouldn't feel nickel and dimed.
Well, if she says so then I'm not going to contest that, but I would have rather expected that it's because Cover owns the character (IP), so them requesting/designing outfits for themselves willy-nilly could lead to a sort of "deformation" of the character's design
Why people go with their wild theories without realizing of brand recognition. If a member only gets new outfit once every 9-15 months, then the fans have time to learn to recognize that model so people get familiar with it. Plus it makes new outfit reveals more special, imagine getting new outfits every week, it wont feel special anymore. and outfits dont make profit! why waste big money on outfits when you can make songs, albums, and big projects that will make profit. As much as I support indie vtubers having the freedom to have fun to do what they like... after the 12th re-debut with yet another model, I just kinda stop caring. About the excitement for a new outfit, as well as the vtuber themselves who I hardly recognize anymore. Many times you google a talents name they will appear in their original debut outfits. To give an example, ironmouse has like 5(more or less) different versions of herself all looking vastly different from one another. Newer viewers will be confused which version is her "main" one. She's an extreme case to use as example but you get the point.
Does this doesn't apply to PNG asset? Like Ollie bouncing Booba is almost new outfit design? maybe something similar like animated wings or helmet can be attached
I dont think so , since those are very minor things and maybe have just a few rules , since Kiara shows new assets every other stream , Bae uses fan PNG assets and Mumei make her own "low quality" assets The problem with the models is that those are part of the brand of the Vtuber , assets not so much
PNG assets are usually fan-created, and typically are understood to be just unofficial stuff added on top of the vtuber's avatar and not an actual new model in and themselves (they have no rigging for one). It's why talents could use stuff like fanmade mics, moustaches, commissioned legs on tables, etc. as soon as they see it online.
It wouldn't be a smart investment considering the company owns the models. They wouldn't be able to use the models if they quit or get fired so why would they want to spend money on them?
This is basically because theyre working for a company that owns the models they use, that includes a clause for not changing the model themselfs without approval from office (and basically giving the copyright for the company). Reason is that they cant just come into the company, get very famous for gettting in, and then going independent instantly while using the new outfit model that they themself bought. Those little funny extra models like smål ame is most probably legally owned by cover corp, thats why they can go and use it in conventions, or theres a complicated if you wont shoot us 1st, we wont shoot you 1st either mumbojumbo lawyertext weighting 2 small elephants.
The issue isnt that they do t it just do to distance and International business dynamic that make it look like they don't get as much support, most of En and ID are in Different Time zone so communication is alway delayed, plus cover has most of their staff in a single office location limiting their coverage on the eveyones activities, so their alot more limitation to and International support that make it difficult for Hololive to give more support to ID and En, im sure when En and the Rest of ID are able to travel to Japan then im sure they will have more support
Dam I'm sure they have there reasons but it's sad how much stuff we will never know about that gets shut down because bureaucracy and shit. Probably really frustrating for the talents
There's lots of reasons why projects can be denied, from simply not having enough time, resources and expertise to accomplish it, to being unable to secure the resources for it due to inter-corporate bureaucracy, to image and brand considerations, and of course some proposals may just be really, really bad ideas that do need to be shot down. Until they tell us those reasons, speculating on what they are for each individual case is pointless.
@@StrikeNoir105E I disagree with most of your points if talents could fund and outsource there projects time and resources would not be a problem, and mainly the idea of an idea being rejected because it's bad. Unless a member is trying to make a fucking Klan rally stream or some type of bigoted or insistive content who cares if they fund and make a project not many people are interested in. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by a "bad bad idea" but they were hired on there value as entertainers so what's the point of stifling there creativity
Doesn't help when one of your talents decides they don't care for the job nor do they want to be there any more. Which holds up the process for four to five others due to various legal issues. IRyS being pushed with council is fine until you realize there was beeg problems that had to go away before any of them could be allowed to get anything new. Another problem is it's EN or rather not JP. HoloX has gotten a ton of stuff very fast including their 3D models. ID1, only a half a year later, has gotten their hands on their 3D models. Myth delays as well to the point Ame needed to get an okay to have unoffical 3d models made for use. There's clear favoritism for the home county that's undeniable. IRyS is a real trooper for dealing with all the model crap and delays and excuses. Hopefully she'll get some love soon.
While this is all very nice. Its a big silly that Irys has not had a single new outfit since debut and her model has in general been regarded as divisive. Meanwhile entire gens who debuted after her have had seasonal outfits and more. Hopefully now that she's been rolled into Council we'll see her get a proper outfit whenever they do.
Like they said she doesn't have a new outfit because she wanted a REDESIGN. It's not "silly" or Cover treating her poorly or anything else. It's entirely on her for wanting a redesign.
She says this but it makes me wonder how ame was able to make so many models for the en girls. Maybe because they mostly VRchat models that's the kind of exception Irys is talking about
Ame was working outside Hololive technical team so she dump zero workload to the company. Marine told in one of her stream that Hololive is really understaffed which is why you don't see stuff flying everywhere.
@@gilgameshlfx7006 I imagine it's hard for them to hire new staff because you want to hire good employees but also you probably want to hire someone who isn't a big fan of the company already so you don't hire someone who only wants the job for a chance to meet the girls
@@alphabetsandwich2400 Yea, and the issue with leaks and shit, I'm assuming they really careful of people that being hired. Especially after the Hitomi Chris and Yozora Mel incident.
Even if IRyS gets to 1M and wishes for an outfit, it would still take months for her to get it. Kiara reached 1M on May 30 2021, and her 1M costume wish was unveiled on June 11 2022, nearly 13 months later. Just asking for the outfit will not get you the outfit that fast, because as mentioned the manpower issues still remain.
![Fubuki couldn't handle Laplus's cuteness when they met in person[Animated Hololive/Eng sub]](/img/n.gif)
I think there’s an issue of fairness. Not everyone wants to self fund a new outfit and some talents might not be able to for various reasons. But if they don’t but all their genmates do, they’ll feel like they’re falling behind and get pressured. Thus Cover just makes it a rule so there’s no pressure to keep up.
agree with this, self funding kinda creates competition between talents. friendship takes priority i guess
@@byungjinyoo3350 just imagine how many outfits Gura would have
@@Alex-rl2mk I think it would be like all the Ame smol 3D outfits...
some of them could be like ironmouse with almost monthly new models
The problem is that management doesn't seem to distribute the outfits "fairly" either. Some talents have a ton of outfits, while others barely have any. Gen 4 infamously had no outfits for an incredibly long time.
@@KyokujiFGC I'm sure there are many interlocking behind-the-scenes reasons for this that we will never get a straight answer for. None of them are "incompetence" or "malice".
Pretty sure it's because and as weird as it is say, there designs/characters belong to Cover. They want to protect the image of their company, so in a way I understand. But come on Irys hasn't had a single new outfit since debut. That's ridiculous.
I doubt its this and more so that some of them obviously make way more money than others. You would have the upper end of Hololive streamers cranking out new outfits and assets while others simply could not afford to do so. In my opinion I think they should be able to invest their own money into their streams in any way they see fit, much like investing in your own business to see it grow to new heights. This is why we see them putting money into 6 figure plus animations, albums, and other non-outfit projects since its the only reinvestments their allowed to make. It appears to me that the limit is in place so Cover can try and keep all of their talents on a similar playing field.
@@Alynis_ i like the word "similiar playing field"
I think there's a disconnect between the fans' point of view and the marketers'. Think of any anime character - Asuka, for instance. Asuka's design is marketable, and Miyamura Yuko is her seiyu. But people don't see Miyamu as BEING Asuka; she just provides the voice. I think the marketers are thinking about the vtuber characters in the same way. But for fans, IRyS the character and the voice are one in the same; in fact, I think most would consider the person as being the "real" IRyS.
Keep in mind that any new outfits IRyS will be having will use her 2.0 as the basis, and not her current appearance. Much easier to do that than to commission an outfit for her current appearance only for it it be phased out.
@@Alynis_ Yeah, I don't believe it. They have models given to them, and so they belong to the company, not to the talent and so they are not allowed to modify it. That's plain and simple. Leveling the playing field between what they sell is a losing strategy for companies. They have popular products, niche products and cheap products, each catering to a specific demographic, and they will change as they see fit to tank losses or make a profit. Why they release new outfits in a controlled manner is because outfit reveals are a huge event, so is a profit incentive to hype the public between the talents every so often, and to not appear as if treating the talents unfairly they give this treatment to all.
Now she make me wonder how many paper works that Amelia’s manager did behind the scene for all of her joke costumes.
JEEZ MAN
Okay theres Smol Ame
Ghost Ame
Bee Ame
Antionio Watson
Chu Chu Ame
Ame-nis Wahtson
And recently Idol Ame
Probably only one per model since she isn't using the company''s workforce to do it. Marine said they are understaffed.
They might have found a way to circumvent it by initially claiming it's HoloEN so it's different, and in the context of no 3D for Myth, with Ame making her own makeshift 3D, Ame and her manager might have overruled the Cover HQ grasp on costumes.
HiRys _is_ HoloEN technically as well, but being in Japan, being able to go to the studio, and being part of their "VSinger" project, she might be under Cover's direct supervision.
I think it only applies to official outfits for live2D and doesn't apply to anything 3D related. The entire Myth, CouncilRYS as well as HoloID2 used several unofficial 3D models.
@@NatureChannelEnclave But SmolAme now became one of official Mascot of Hololive.
If everyone funded their own stuff. Everyone would be like Ironmouse. A new model every 2 weeks
Also another reason would be the quality control as well. It's impossible to survey over +100 outfits at once. It will be a lot of work to constantly give feedbacks back and forth, with constant large volume of workload. Also the number of available top notch riggers are finite. They might end up hiring someone who's less experienced in the field to do the task. Now that's a quality control nightmare!
yes. Quality control. Rhombus.
Like Gura's cat ears
Yeah but having 0 option at all is more ridiculous than, say, letting them request assets or outfits once a year or on an anniversary.
So the solution is no creative powers to the talent? Let's look at Myth for an example.
The first outfit they obviously get no input on as it is the basis for the character you audition for.
The third outfit was New Years set so again, you get no choice on the theme.
The fourth outfit was party attire so, again, you don't get to go against that theme.
The only outfit they probably got to choose a THEME for was the second one. Now on 3/4 I am sure they could give input on designs, but no matter what they WERE getting a Kimono and nothing they say would ever change that.
The availability of the best riggers is so finite that hololive got none of them :^)
As much as I like her silly side, it's cool to see how mature she can be. I can't imagine how frustrated she feels. She's also putting out some good songs too like Gravity.
Well, the talents don't own their models, so it makes sense that the outfits couldn't be owned by them either since it's just another version of the model. But IRyS is LONG overdue for some action on hers.
Yes the answer is so simple, Their character model is owned by company, so they cant do anything about it without permission.. and i also agree with you, cmon IRyS need news outfit too, its already one year since shes debut.
@@toto8665 Well she's waiting on her model redesign. and from context it's taking longer than was planned
@@toto8665 Redesign
@@toto8665 redesign, it's similar case with nene, her new outfit was late, and her 3d debut was delayed too because of it.
Well, it makes perfect sense since funding a merch does require a lot of people to even produce them. Even if you have the money to do so, the amount of individuals you have to have them made are also important
Not talking about merch, talking about new vtuber models
@@fishiefish6179 merch is included in the topic.
Or unless you're like Calli and become popular enough to negate that.
Exception like: pekora's jail outfit
Edit: i wonder what pekora 1M wishes?
_> Exception like: pekora's jail outfit_
Yes, we know that Pekora commissioned it without telling the Management is bigbrain move. Then *Pekorism2 artbook* came out _(the main reason why Pekora took so long to choose a "Marketable and Appealing to the fans" outfit )_
_>i wonder what pekora 1M wishes?_
Lottery Ticket and Horse gambling ticket
I can also imagine that some of the talents that get more income would have way more outfits than others and it would feel kinda unfair to both the talents and the fans
This was basically what Korone tried to say on her stream.
I don't think that's the reason. They're allowed to invest their own money into other things-backgrounds, assets, songs, animations, videos, etc.-and it doesn't seem to cause any problems for anyone. Watame is probably the best example of this, with her weekly-ish "Watame Did Borderline Nothing Wrong" series (which I'm pretty confident she doesn't make herself), commissioning custom art every month for her members, and a large number of covers and original songs. If that isn't a problem, I can't imagine how an outfit would be.
I don't know, but I'd guess it's a combination of copyright considerations and image preservation. The characters belong to Cover, so figuring out who owns exactly how much and which parts of personal outfits would be legally messy. And Hololive has a certain aesthetic to it, so Cover will want to maintain that aesthetic and keep it recognizable, which would be infinitely harder to do if they freely allowed custom outfits.
That fairness for everyone, so no pressure to someone in the company, because fans may sometimes pressure their oshi just to see a new outfit and some people may not want that.
Meanwhile a certain pink mouse, changes outfit/avatar like they change clothes every day
darn. I guess we'll have to settle for their plain ol' birthday suits
im guessing one of the exceptions is the 3D models. They likely gave Ame a little bit of leanway for her VR model (possibly because the Smol Ame model was easy to make, quality control, rig, etc. compared to a new outfit im assuming) and then she took that inch and got a mile out of it. The fact it let them play VR games without needing a full high-quality 3D model probably helped with that. It seemed to smooth the way for the others getting the Goofy Halloween models, then the Beeg-smol models. The Beeg Smol Models looked higher quality than the other VRChat models others got with alot of expressions and extra toggles but that was likely due to Sana's Graduation
Manpower, workload, there just ain't too many resources to do outfits like daily pancakes. On top of that, copyright infringement can potentially be a problem. So I understand IRyS up to the point where she couldn't get new costumes prepared on time.
The amount of effort that goes into them is understandable. What's criminally not understandable is how everyone else keeps getting outfits while IRyS still hasn't gotten a single update since debut.
@@juni5822 Thats because , ironically , she will get a new model that is easier to get outfits and is more inline with the Aesthetic/artstyle of everyone else , Cover did droped the ball on that sense , but she did was going to get a new years outfit along with everyone else but choose the new model instead
Interesting that members can’t fund their own outfit, well hopefully IRyS gets a new outfit sooner than later.
it will get complicated to make merch since cover was not the creator of said design and possible legal troubles.
They’re not the creator, but I assumed they paid for the design and should therefore own it? It’s like when a company pays a designer to come up with a logo for them. If the design still belongs to the original artist, it defeats the purpose of paying them to make the design in the first place.
She wanted a redesign, so it won't happen until that's done.
Like a baseball team owns a mascot, Cover Corp owns the image rights of "Irys," not the person inside. So she doesn't hold the rights to modify or change her appearance. The exception is Suisei, who designed her own model and brought it into the company when she was hired. Even then, she may have signed over the rights of her image for marketing purposes.
Didn't Pekora funded her own jailhouse outfit?
When your beloved streamer wants to be even more shiny *after getting permission* ....
yeah, that's actually very reasonable explantion
It's also a matter of brand recognition. If a talent only gets a new outfit once every 9-15 months, then the audience has time to learn to recognize that model instantly.
Plus it makes new outfits reveals all the more special.
This is the true answer. Many times you google a talents name they will appear in their original debut outfits. To give an example, ironmouse has like 5(more or less) different versions of herself all looking vastly different from one another. Newer viewers will be confused which version is her "main" one. She's an extreme case to use as example but you get the point
THIS!! why people go with their wild theories without realizing this, imagine getting new outfits every week, it wont feel special anymore.
and outfits dont make profit!, why waste big money on outfits when you can make songs, albums, and big projects that will make profit
This is kinda why I have problems getting attached to a vtuber like Ironmouse, it seems like every other month her design/model changes into a completely different person.
@@i8i03muhammadfarizb7 agreed, this is also what comes to my mind first. the rarer something is, the more special it becomes, simple as that
Nope. It's about ownership.
from this you can see how Rushia has special permission since she change the outfits and hair colors quite many
then other members who used their special permission :
Pekora : her "prison outfit" from her own fund
Flare : she dislike her original outfit so she change it
Korone : she's DOOG, of course
and there's special case like Nene who her original design outfit similiar with certain glass hearted country.
Rushia, Pekora had high donation. I can't say anything about Flare except she might already request for a change for quite some time. She had that look for a long time.
Im really sure Rushia was that special permission because of course, she got a lot of money.
But... Well... Nothing to say more.
Iirc, Rushia's hair color invited divisive opinion among fans while Flare's old design deemed too "inappropriate" for YT (the boob window).
@@thejamesonthestreet Flare also eventually changed up her old default outfit for her current one because she wasn't comfortable with the image her original appearance was giving, i.e. it was giving her a tomboyish vibe, when in fact she was more on the cute side. It's the same reason why she used her alternate school outfit more often once she got it compared to her original appearance.
@@thejamesonthestreet Mel having glorious cleavage on stream but she still fine, like othe Comment said, she 'hate' the design, since it not represent her, she says she not cool or sexy like that.
you can see on her first year she act like cool lady, she had enough and feel restrained by doing that, thats why now she more goofy and cute.
The real issue is probably ownership, if the talent fund an outfit that outfit is their property not Hololive's or Cover's, and Cover probably want to keep the complete IP of the character, even if they are one off (when the person behind the vtuber leave hololive all their model will never be used anymore)
Yeah, this was my thought. It puts them in a messy position with regards to ownership and whether they're operating in a personal capacity or on behalf of the company
Changing your outfit too often tends to dilute the brand recognition, this is why Icons like Mario, Mickey and Sonic always have the same outfit. It makes them easily racognizable on all promo mediums. Look at the indie scene, some vtubers change model often or drastically and if you're not a fan you can easily mistake them for a different one.
There are more things. Legally, when they'd fund it themselves, the ownership of the assets would become complicated and dubious. Also, it would mean higher earning vtubers would naturally have access to more and better assets, which may or may not be a thing already (I suspect Hololive approaches this more on a per-branch/gen basis), but this would accelerate that even further. The manpower issue could be problem as well, especially for seasonal stuff like summer or Christmas when everyone wants everything at the same time.
makes ame stand out if she can propose ideas as smol myth
I think from her hand in a lot of the at home 3d streams, editing experience, and general love for projects outside of her own channel, Hololive is grooming her for roles outside of streaming. Almost like what Coco wanted to do as a talent/manager. I have no idea how she makes time for all of this.
@@MegaSimmaster well she barely does any projects in her channel, see how most of her things was dropped now... all she do is make something new everytime then make something grand... now that takes talent... being able to come up something new time after time...
Hey, that's a nice life-sized Bae figure there.
I imagine Marine had to push really hard for her swimsuit to be possible too, because I can imagine Cover saying no, but sometimes you have to put your foot down and stand by it
The same Marine that told us that they are understaffed. From her tone, sounds like they are severely understaffed.
Swimsuit is a different matter, tho. It's more like UA-cam stomped down any exposed booba, although admittedly Cover did overly worried about it. Then again, they might be traumatized by the previous incendent, so I can see why they are being extra careful
@@thejamesonthestreet Nah, Cover Corp didn't "overly worried". UA-cam really fked up with the AI.
2019 Hololive Summer frankly had sluttier swimsuits than Senchou has. It's not Cover, it's youtube. Remember, Senchou's channel was full-on *deleted* one day out of the blue. Cover ofc does not want that to happen again.
@@thejamesonthestreet youtube really ban any sexy looking anime characters, it not secret , you can see Japan viewer started using word BAN just how those hit company vtuber usually and they also has trauma for that. Subaru, Mio, HoloSummer just one of many examples, not include indie one.
I think a main part of it is for merch stuff; since merch has to be planned in advance, and if cover weren't apart of the whole process of making a model and design, it'd be a lot worse for making merch for said new design since they'd just be a 3rd wheel in the design process, or literally wouldn't be able to "apply" the design until after the showcase making merch and stuff months behind
Suisei is the 'special exception' I believe. Since her model is her own before she got scouted by hololive.
By this point though she is really only using models that were created after she joined, so she probably still has some form of agreement to try and maintain the same pace as the other girls. There may well be something special written in to the contract relating to who owns them though since the character was her own creation. But we'll probably never know what the exact terms are between them.
I think the special exception could be the Sololive. All members who have performed a live concert in front of live audience have a special 3D outfit for the event: Sora, Suisei, Watame, Calli and most recently Okayu.
@@thegemguy1334 but didn't pekora fund her prison outfit, and korone fund her furball too? (not saying this is a bad thing, i am really happy both of them go to do it because pekora seemed really upset back then and i love korone, just wondering why they could be exceptions)
@@doggosuki I don't know about the detail of Korone fur ball so can't say. But Pekora prison outfit was given exception because her official 2nd outfit was delayed while the rest of gen3 already got theirs. Cover had to compromise because the fault of the delay was theirs if I recall correctly.
@@thegemguy1334 yeah and moreover back then Pekora was JP's No. 1 most subscribed in addtion with top 10 SC earning and she has the most concurrent viewer, yet she havent got new costume.
Understandable compromise
Poor IRyS. I HOPE everyone is satisfied with the reveal. I do wonder if there's a surprise involved
Rushia had like 300 outfits though lol
Mio also hasnt got one in a while before, very unfortunate times
We need more riggers it seems
Marine said during one of her HoloCure stream that they are understaffed so... Yea.
Meanwhile the doggo...
that's probably to not have disparity in the same gen immagine if one member go and have 5-6 outfit meanwhile her genmate have 2, also usualy outfit are made with a common concept for all the generation members, also like she said there are special occasion like kiara outfit for i think the 1 milion sub
But that actually already was the case in some gens. Remember Rushia had like 5 or 6 models while it took Pekora 3 years to get an official new outfit (not counting the prisoners outfit which I think she commissioned herself)
@@georgesisson8351 and thy learned the lesson because after that people complained
@@AndreaRebek I mean kinda I guess but even now still aren’t even. For example Botan is on her 4th new outfit while Nene, Polka and Lamy are still on their 2nd. I guess we’ll see if the rest of the gen will be getting more outfits soon as well.
@@georgesisson8351 Cover should just be outward with their rules. Its all quite silly.
@@chadasmr8304 I don't remember which one talked about it, but one of the girls said that Cover doesn't hand out costumes on any kind of schedule or rules-based system. If the talents want a new outfit, they have to ask for it. Outfit inequality is likely mostly do the frequency with which talents petition for them.
It's cause they have to use art approved by cover at least and use their in house riggers and proprietary rigging software cause on top of being like the management team cover develops this technology and sells it or leases the use of it in other commercial products and what better advertisement for that than their talents all using it but that means they need to tailor a good experience for advertising it
first and foremost you guys should understand they are from vtuber agency, they don't own their name and model (there are exceptions, but this is hololive). also company want quality control to keep their brand in a good name
Funny, I said the girls had to fund their own videos, 3d concerts and everything a few months back on the Hololive subreddit. Downvoted to oblivion and told that Cover wouldn't make the girls pay for this stuff, even though Moona herself said in english that she was saving up to pay for a 3d concert. Now Irys comes out and says it, now everyone finally knows it and is OK with it.
Although, I'm pretty sure Watame had commissioned her T-Rex hoodie in some part herself. Atleast that's what every translation had put up when she was talking about it. Believe it was for the extra hairstyle, and the 2 animations, unzipping and it chewing on her. So while I don't think she paid for the model, I think at the same time as the model they can pay for extras to go along with it is what Watame was saying.
Astel must be pulling some mad strings then to be able to pretty much almost self-fund his own 3D debut but also pay for a whole redesign for his character. I guess it was because it was for his 3D debut that Cover kinda made an exception for him.
Or he's already standing in line for a long time.
Actually he said that in his 3d debut it got denied a lot like his requests and make him stressed out. He actually wanted to quit but his manager (Shinove-san) help him to make it happen.
If it's a thing, then Pekora will be the one with most outfit.
But reality is.. it's like Matsuri. Or Fubuki that with the most outfit. And models.
I suspect that it would also fall into a very grey legal area if you have employees funding their own gear that also has IP linked to it.
It's kinda like some office didnt allow their employee to modify their work desk
@@thejamesonthestreet On top of that their is an IP to deal with. The state of the law on the ownership and controle of the model is not clear, the model is clearly their but the personality and likeness behind probably isn't. Hololive tear down youtube chanels of member that departed on unfriendly terms for that reason. If the member then modify the models or pay someone to modify the models it becomes even greyer since the member would potentially own the modified IP, I don't know if their is precedents for this but if their isn't I can imagine hololive not wanting to go through the legal battle to find out.
@@gavinkemp7920 it is clear that the copyright owner of the character and its likeness are owned by Cover. The talent *might* have some input about the character's name and maybe some design, but they then relinquish their rights of their contribution.
If they want to fund some changes, they must gain permission or even license, even then chances are they will be asked to, again, relinquish their rights. So to prevent any potential conflict, Cover as the copyright owner would just straight up forbid such practice. Tho, there are exception, but Cover wont just keep giving exception and even in such exception, Cover must've been the one in control.
What I said in the previous comment was just simple analogy.
Cover probably wants some creative control over how the characters are presented as well. If every talent could just fund their own costumes then you'd have all kinds of outfit that the company may or may not be cool with. There also comes an issue of having varying degrees of quality of the talents didn't use the same designers and riggers as cover.
More than likely it's due to Cover owning the model. If she paid for things that could only work for that particular model and she graduated, that could potentially open Cover to liability. Everything else is an asset that is not part of her model. I doubt they could keep it, but something tells me if they graduated, they'd be given some sort of compensation for it if they decided to add stuff here and there such as a room.
Some people say fairness but I find that difficult to believe as Cover JP seems to be the one who has the most say in things while EN and ID seem to be more supportive branches. I only say this because everything seems to revolve around HoloJP's Cover. It's why we don't see 3D outside of Japan (As inconvenient as that is) and why it takes an eternity just to see an outfit reveal outside of HoloJP. I personally think it's just the legalities of it.
Downside with a company is that it is indeed not up to them on when they can get outfits. And what really sucks for Irys is that its been this long and stull nothing...
Council also needs casual outfits as well.
I'm assuming commissions a lot more expensive now hence the long waits etc.
I think rigger is in demand, just look how most holopro have same papa.
IRyS would have one by now, but she wanted a redesign.
the redesign fck up her scheduled outfits for sure
@@Helmir stop saying "she wanted a redesign." If you did your research you'd see she didn't have a choice.
@@jasperhorne She literally said she wanted it and was pushing for it on stream. MULTIPLE times.
Also they use a separate in-house program for lots of the vtuber stuff. It’s why they are a bit behind like Vshojo in terms of stuff the models can do. They only recently got the ability to stick things to themselves which was around in vtubestudio a long time ago. In-house programming allows micromanaging and failsafes at every step to prevent accidents. Makes sense from a liability and talent protection standpoint but it can certainly hamper creativity at times.
Not only is it behind in features, it also seems to be highly unoptimised since the prop model pin feature seems to eat up performance even on their 2d rigs. I get that they are focusing more on their 3D live stuff and also home 3d. But we see the talents 2d models 90% of the time except for gen 0, the least they can do is expedite the R&D for their proprietary app especially since they pride themselves as a tech company
Yeah, hololive as a tech company has to make everything in house. I think the rigging programs and 3d tech is suppose to be the base for any video games and software they release later on, but it's hard when you're developing this with a small team. They're competing with very big optimized players.
Sounds like it has to do with brand recognition. Changing up an outfit or style can make one less visible or recognizable as being part of Hololive or being themselves.
That doesn't seem like a whole hololive thing, people buying their own outfits would have been the explanation for how rushia's wardrobe was bigger than my irl one while pekora had less clothes than a hobo, and I'm pretty sure pekora comissioned her jailhouse outfit
I don't remember who talked about it (might have been Pekora), but one of them said that Cover doesn't give out outfits on any kind of schedule or accomplishment basis. If the talents want a new outfit, they have to ask for it. So what probably happened is Rushia often asked for new outfits, and Pekora never did.
Not only Rushi had a lot of outfits, they where highly customizable. At least she make cover expend her superchat money into something that she likes
A lot of people forget the characters these girls play are not theirs. They just run the controls.
Yeah.... That clip when Korone said she couldnt use the furball suit anytime she wanted but i dont remember the reason... i guess is the same what Irys said.
The time when Irys gets a new outfit would be a great day though
if i remember correctly it was because it might cause jealousy or make the others feel bad because they dont have a fur ball version.
@@zeroxjac1 would it be fair to make a gamers furball version or everyone needs to have one? 🤔if the first then fubuki would have it, remember she's gen1 who's also in hologamers
@@sirempanada2468 ua-cam.com/video/9KehEIB29uQ/v-deo.html
@@sirempanada2468 It was more about what Korone *thought,* which was not necessarily reality. (Referring to her saying Holomem might get upset) And based on the translation (it was a Jshay clip) it feels like she was more concerned about _certain fans_ that like to make drama about the smallest stuff.
@@HudaefCares i know, but i'm playing along to see how it would be
That’s great and all Cover but I want CowFauna anyway!
Makes sense. The skills needed to help make a new Vtuber outfit are kinda specialized and niche so it makes sense that even Cover wouldn't have enough people to really make new outfits on a quicker basis. Hope this means that they're giving staff breaks and what not and not over working anyone.
They generally contract out their artwork anyway.
I think it has less to do with that, and more to do with the fact that Cover doesn't see it as a great investment to do it more than x amount of times per year.
The outfits are all outsourced anyway.
@@KyokujiFGC all rigger and illustrater are freelance, they just have more opportunities when they become the papa and mama of the talent.
I understand that with the help of Kson saying "I first need to reserve months prior mama and papa to make them work on my new outfit"
What irys couldn't say is their models are owned bye cover and if they make any changes those parts are owned bye them which could cause an ugly legal dispute later
Pretty sure Hololive wants to avoid merchandise licensing issue.
The same reason why Furball Korone is kinda restricted despite of its popularity
It feels like the EN girls have a lot of bias against them from Cover. They don’t seem to have the same liberties as the JP branch. The JP girls seem to have more freedom to play around with their outfits and they tend to put out more projects. There’s also way more JP members, so it seems like Cover is making them the priority.
this makes sense if you think of giving the girls some semblance of a leveled playing field.. it would be unfair if one of the girls because she's in a better financial situation, ordered more outfits, or if they get a unit outfit, she gets higher quality one then the rest, because she sunk more money into it.. it would force competition and make the girls spend more then healthy on their models
A lot of people forgetting or don't know that IRyS is getting a model redesign so that's the reason why the current model isn't getting any outfits as it'll be on the new model
For any new outfit to happen the new model needs to be done first
i guess that it also has to do with the fact that if there where outfit reveals for every talent like every month it would lose a bit of it charm? don't get me wrong, i'd love to see my oshi rocking a new outfit every week, but cover has to have the whole picture in mind
I'm assuming the "certain exceptions" are VRChat models? It's a different organization, but the Nijisanji EN/ID members have stated that they commissioned their own VRChat models, and I'm assuming the same has been true for Hololive EN so far.
I think the exception also requires that these self-funded unofficial models be made to look distinctly different from their official models, too? It would explain why all of their VRChat models are chibi versions, but that's just a guess on my end. I know Selen said that she needed to explicitly state that the VRChat models that she used weren't "official" models provided by the company.
Probably, yeah. Basically Hololive seems fine with it because it's something for doing content. Especially when 3D is so difficult for them to do outside of Japan.
One Hololive member has special permission. Hoshimachi Suisei ☄🤩
I was thinking that it was also due to the ownership of the models.
oh no, i thought she was wearing dream's mask
well funding there own outfit can cause many problems like someone has bigger SC earning and some one has lowest SC earning someone can afford so many and some people can only afford once in year that gonna break the talent equality it's like same treatment to all people if you are with 4m sub or 100k sub. (i think that thought process they are working with)
I think it's fair, cus their models belong to the company. If they funded the outfit themselves, it will become ambiguous who owns the models, and can possibly create problems.
Cover shooting itself at the speed of sound.
Got no place to go, gotta lose to the rainbow.
Costumes are definitely not a problem Cover has.
Either way rigging can take a lot of time. Specially if the model has a lot of details. It's not an issue you can solve by just throwing money at it.
Considering the amount of complaints over time with regards the rigging for some models and how Cover is always said to be understaffed, yeah that checks out (and it's not like they can just hire on a whim, that's how you end with crap employees), and that's before we even get into how some people will get really obnoxious about how some members would get new outfits more often than others.
They trying to avoid what other company done, blatant favouritism always an issue.
Understaffed...
Welp, that explain the recruitment notice that they often post on cover twitter
Well Cover pays ppl to rig the models so . . . Does the staff number influence in anything?
Edit: or do they rig themselves...? Idk anymore...
@@Jak_03 they mostly hiring for management and technical aspect. But artist and rigger is paid like contract freelancer
Yes, employment at hololive has been pretty tough since the start of the company. Gen 1 lost a member due to what sounds like really fucked up manipulation by a higher up. Some creep payed for the tech setup needed to stream in return for sexual favors. Really sad that she was thrown under the bus because of it.
2nd and more well known case is Mel's harrassment by a former staff member that became dangerously attached to her. She took an almost year long hiatus because of it but this time Hololive actually backed her up.
These two insidents make hiring tough because they have to know the candidate isn't a creep, won't leak stuff, and has to do their job well. Just look at how many managers some of the JP girls go through and you'll see the turn around rate.
Not everyone can be Brian Tsui. There are so many vtubers and rigging projects in general to make that even 1000 Brian Tsuis aren't enough.
Edit: The comment section makes a lot of evaluations. They're all possible, but some could be more improbable than others. If you think it's something selfish like regulating the members and forcing some standard, I'd doubt it. In the first place, it's taken this long to get iRyS's new design and it's STILL not ready yet. It can really just be not enough manpower. Simply because they want specific artists and riggers for the job. Every artist have very unique styles. Every rigger has their own understanding of physics and skills in establishing them. And while it would be an honor to work for hololive, they can't put Hololive ahead of others. Rigging in itself is already a long process. Let's say the rigging process takes 2 weeks(highly likely it'd be much higher). If the rigger has 10 vtubers to rig, that'd be 20 weeks. Then there's rest days. Let's give them 2 per week. That's 40 days, which is pretty much 6 weeks. So it'd take 26 weeks for a rigger to get through 10 models. That's almost 7 months.
Another reason iRyS couldn't get a new outfit could be because they wanted to transition to the new model first before deciding on giving a new outfit. So after the transition, it'll probably be 3 months or 6 months until the new outfit. And it isn't exactly thrilling to tell her old papa artist that she's being ripped from him and being adopted to another papa/mama. Not that I would know if it's the same papa that'll be making the new model. But I personally found this model creepy on first impression, sad to say. I'm guessing it'll be like AZKi anyway
I hope 3.0 Iris comes with a redesign of her facial features. Her model is the only one who's face is so flat/emotionless
I mean, your model is the one become part of the agency and it's birth required your parents... Mama/papa that obviously in contract or negotiated by the agency so it's obviously not that easy to simply do self funding... Except if you're indie and close to your creator
Amelia:Haha yes
Everyone finding out Hololive Vtubers can't fund their own costume designs meanwhile I'm here like "Wait, the people who makes those designs don't do it for free?"
Lul artists work on commission, especially since they hire big name artists and mangakas who also work in anime industry (for example mumei's designer) so yes it will cost them, a lot (char/outfit design is one person, rigging is another so that's 2 people you are commissioning for so imagine a whole gen getting new outfits at the same time)
A new model in their standards costs a couple grand each, yeah. It's all haute couture, basically. No automation besides the systems the artists and riggers use, and company/branch/gen branding is different from solo branding. That,too, has a cost.
Why should they work for free? For example Dyarikku who makes awesome models and riggs told on stream that major models cost more than 20k. Veibae paid like 40k for her new model and all the stuff she needed
@@DonCesar93 Not saying they should, it just never really crossed my mind
I have a genuine question, in this case what would separates that, to 3d models like ame having bee ame or ripped or smol myth or council. Are they not the same?
That's actually different than I expected. I assumed their models were to be the property of the company, and the Holo members were just permitted to use as they saw fit during employment. From there, would make sense to not want a bunch of costumes or models without careful consideration from the company and the future. Just my assumption before the video.
If I was to guess then it's clear Ame is one of the exceptions but I also think that's more likely part of an ongoing business plan. Ame seems to be heading in the direction of being Cover's English office so she can experiment with 3D studios and projects that can then be fed back into Cover. Because it's a lot harder to get the EN girls all to Japan it makes a lot more sense to have an EN set up office to allow them to get recordings to merge with the JP internal projects. Also with Ame covering a lot of the setting up Cover isn't shouldering a lot of loss for the initial set up and gets far more benefit.
Imagine Redjuice drop project HOPE and ReDrop or Pako pick it up instead. Holo will go full FGO.
If Hope get pick up by ReDrop, we can expect IRyS will have 3 separate forms for both lore and culture purpose.
Ame must have special permission she has so many different models
knowing that they do not own their own model and knowing how much avatars normally cost these days, it won't be a good idea to fund it with their own money, because what if they graduate one day, then money go poof.
End of the day its not their model, its Covers. So I think investing in something you don'y own is a bad idea even if they were allowed. Probs brings into question who owns what if they are funding it
Nahoone
its simple, the model ther using is company own......if u want to have freedom in ur outfit then go independent, and i can see Irys will be fine being one, she has a lot of supporter even before she become hololive
I imagined it was because Cover would retain the ownership of the model so it wouldn't make much sense to spend your own money for company assets.
The rigging might be in-house production. Hololive talents already revealed that the tracking software was developed by the company.
in nijisanji talents can fund their own outfit and (og song) but they cant bring it with them when graduated. Some ex graduated member sad they cant bring their og song with them
Even Irys thinks the way her model is drawn doesn't really look good for vtubing. Need the redesign asap
Probably a combination of Cover actually owning the IP and wanting to control it (as they should!), of fairness (some would have far, FAR more funds than others), of customer relations ("Give me money so I can have a new outfit!" can work with Independants, but when you've got a "giant corporation" (Cover) behind Holo, that's going to come across much more negatively) and probably a whole lot of Planning to make sure that new outfits don't come across as nickel and diming customers.
Like if Talent A released a new model - and Merch - on the 1st, then Talent B released a new model - and Merch - on the 15th, and Talent C released a new model - and Merch - on the next 1st, it would strike many people as being nickel and diming fans. So release it all on the schedule of Talent C, and even if fans spent the exact same amount of money, they wouldn't feel nickel and dimed.
Well, if she says so then I'm not going to contest that, but I would have rather expected that it's because Cover owns the character (IP), so them requesting/designing outfits for themselves willy-nilly could lead to a sort of "deformation" of the character's design
They are understaffed. Marine already said this. And tracking software was made by Cover Corp.
Why people go with their wild theories without realizing of brand recognition. If a member only gets new outfit once every 9-15 months, then the fans have time to learn to recognize that model so people get familiar with it.
Plus it makes new outfit reveals more special, imagine getting new outfits every week, it wont feel special anymore.
and outfits dont make profit! why waste big money on outfits when you can make songs, albums, and big projects that will make profit.
As much as I support indie vtubers having the freedom to have fun to do what they like... after the 12th re-debut with yet another model, I just kinda stop caring. About the excitement for a new outfit, as well as the vtuber themselves who I hardly recognize anymore.
Many times you google a talents name they will appear in their original debut outfits. To give an example, ironmouse has like 5(more or less) different versions of herself all looking vastly different from one another. Newer viewers will be confused which version is her "main" one. She's an extreme case to use as example but you get the point.
This doesn't make a whole lot of sense when Rushia had like 8 or 9 different outfits/hairstyles, presumably paid for out of pocket
Needy rigger overdose?
Does this doesn't apply to PNG asset? Like Ollie bouncing Booba is almost new outfit design? maybe something similar like animated wings or helmet can be attached
Still ok, but olivia is kinda gray
I dont think so , since those are very minor things and maybe have just a few rules , since Kiara shows new assets every other stream , Bae uses fan PNG assets and Mumei make her own "low quality" assets
The problem with the models is that those are part of the brand of the Vtuber , assets not so much
@@taranchura2061 i thought Olivia was red, i think i'm colorblind
PNG assets are usually fan-created, and typically are understood to be just unofficial stuff added on top of the vtuber's avatar and not an actual new model in and themselves (they have no rigging for one). It's why talents could use stuff like fanmade mics, moustaches, commissioned legs on tables, etc. as soon as they see it online.
Someone get this girl her fucking outfit already, and 3D
It wouldn't be a smart investment considering the company owns the models. They wouldn't be able to use the models if they quit or get fired so why would they want to spend money on them?
This is basically because theyre working for a company that owns the models they use, that includes a clause for not changing the model themselfs without approval from office (and basically giving the copyright for the company). Reason is that they cant just come into the company, get very famous for gettting in, and then going independent instantly while using the new outfit model that they themself bought. Those little funny extra models like smål ame is most probably legally owned by cover corp, thats why they can go and use it in conventions, or theres a complicated if you wont shoot us 1st, we wont shoot you 1st either mumbojumbo lawyertext weighting 2 small elephants.
I think only Pekora’s funded a outfit because of some issues with her artist
The "characters" are owned by Cover and not the people that play them. They more or less have freedom over their activities, but not their image.
This is true, you can't just change your outfit and appearance however you want like ironmouse, your image is your brand.
I won’t say anything but I wish EN and ID got more support.
The issue isnt that they do t it just do to distance and International business dynamic that make it look like they don't get as much support, most of En and ID are in Different Time zone so communication is alway delayed, plus cover has most of their staff in a single office location limiting their coverage on the eveyones activities, so their alot more limitation to and International support that make it difficult for Hololive to give more support to ID and En, im sure when En and the Rest of ID are able to travel to Japan then im sure they will have more support
Dam I'm sure they have there reasons but it's sad how much stuff we will never know about that gets shut down because bureaucracy and shit.
Probably really frustrating for the talents
There's lots of reasons why projects can be denied, from simply not having enough time, resources and expertise to accomplish it, to being unable to secure the resources for it due to inter-corporate bureaucracy, to image and brand considerations, and of course some proposals may just be really, really bad ideas that do need to be shot down. Until they tell us those reasons, speculating on what they are for each individual case is pointless.
@@StrikeNoir105E I disagree with most of your points if talents could fund and outsource there projects time and resources would not be a problem, and mainly the idea of an idea being rejected because it's bad.
Unless a member is trying to make a fucking Klan rally stream or some type of bigoted or insistive content who cares if they fund and make a project not many people are interested in.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by a "bad bad idea" but they were hired on there value as entertainers so what's the point of stifling there creativity
@@StrikeNoir105E image and brand reasons I do understand is a fair point
Doesn't help when one of your talents decides they don't care for the job nor do they want to be there any more. Which holds up the process for four to five others due to various legal issues. IRyS being pushed with council is fine until you realize there was beeg problems that had to go away before any of them could be allowed to get anything new.
Another problem is it's EN or rather not JP. HoloX has gotten a ton of stuff very fast including their 3D models. ID1, only a half a year later, has gotten their hands on their 3D models. Myth delays as well to the point Ame needed to get an okay to have unoffical 3d models made for use. There's clear favoritism for the home county that's undeniable.
IRyS is a real trooper for dealing with all the model crap and delays and excuses. Hopefully she'll get some love soon.
Would be really weird to fund assets you do not technically own. It's like buying a laptop for work and leave it there when you g r a d u a t e.
People in Japan stick with one company for life.
In nijisanji is like that, you can fund your outfit and og song but when graduated everything is dissapeared
Dear God...
Please give IRyS a new outfit for real
IRyS will get one eventually, but she wanted a redesign instead. They can't make outfits until that's done.
While this is all very nice.
Its a big silly that Irys has not had a single new outfit since debut and her model has in general been regarded as divisive.
Meanwhile entire gens who debuted after her have had seasonal outfits and more.
Hopefully now that she's been rolled into Council we'll see her get a proper outfit whenever they do.
The redesign is coming, and I'm certain Cover will Fast forward some outfits pretty fast after the release of it.
You beating a dead horse when irys already explain why the need for redesign is her choice.
Like they said she doesn't have a new outfit because she wanted a REDESIGN. It's not "silly" or Cover treating her poorly or anything else. It's entirely on her for wanting a redesign.
She says this but it makes me wonder how ame was able to make so many models for the en girls. Maybe because they mostly VRchat models that's the kind of exception Irys is talking about
Ame was working outside Hololive technical team so she dump zero workload to the company. Marine told in one of her stream that Hololive is really understaffed which is why you don't see stuff flying everywhere.
@@gilgameshlfx7006 I imagine it's hard for them to hire new staff because you want to hire good employees but also you probably want to hire someone who isn't a big fan of the company already so you don't hire someone who only wants the job for a chance to meet the girls
@@alphabetsandwich2400 Yea, and the issue with leaks and shit, I'm assuming they really careful of people that being hired.
Especially after the Hitomi Chris and Yozora Mel incident.
@@gilgameshlfx7006 with all the leak coming out lately like bleach new episode, bakugou death scene,it suck such precaution need to be tighten.
So what I am hearing is get IRyS to 1 Million...
If only irys her self choose new outfit if not maybe she choose sololive concert and other
Even if IRyS gets to 1M and wishes for an outfit, it would still take months for her to get it. Kiara reached 1M on May 30 2021, and her 1M costume wish was unveiled on June 11 2022, nearly 13 months later. Just asking for the outfit will not get you the outfit that fast, because as mentioned the manpower issues still remain.