But if a game wants to punish Linux for a problem that's largely Windows then I'll consider it another game that is not worth playing and will just as easily find something else.
yes, it’ll solve. you might be 40y old, but recent EAC updates forces decent amount of cheater to go KVM or Linux build. i can assure you steps to detecting KVM is next step
The problem is that game devs tend to forget about the first rule of cybersecurity You can never, under any circumstances, trust the client. Even the kernel-level stuff will become just as easy to bypass as what we're seeing here, it's just a matter of time.
Server side anti cheat can't prevent many types of cheats, such as wallhack. There is no guaranteed way to prevent cheating, there are only ways to reduce it significantly. Banning linux is one easy way to do that.
@@notuxnobux That's true, server side anti-cheat is more expensive and would likely require human intervention to ban enough cheaters. But maybe these huge game companies should spend some resources actually trying a different approach instead of taking the cheap route and installing rootkits on all users' machines.
@@notuxnobux yes but banning linux gaming is not right thing to do, same could be compared to racism for example you are not allowed to buy certaing things because of your skin color or something like that.
Yeah , now we have to pay for cheats :D ha ha ha - Bro EA is Ea they are selling gambling to kids with stickers but now they care about cheaters ? L O L
I hope you know that you can do this on Windows too. Cheats comes down to edit part of memory (RAM). Anty cheats like easyantycheat can be bypassed too. I'm glad that I drop online games 10 years ago :)
@@StrangeDays-v6x Linux cheats have a lot more friction tho, most people don't have linux installed and don't want to install it. Id argue that there are a lot more cheaters on windows using paid cheats than people using free cheats on linux.
@@StrangeDays-v6x What difference does it make if it's paid or not? Windows cheats are like 10€ with free upgrades, in fact the new trend is to have a cheat that works for several different games, Warzone, CSGO, Apex, PUBG increasing the value of the cheat.
@@grgasca56 of course it matters, if something is completely free 100% people would choose the free one over the paid one, no matter how low the price of paid cheats are.
@@StrangeDays-v6x That just says that there's so many cheaters on windows that it's worth to put them behind a paywall so the cheat maker can make money out of it, if it was only 3-4 people cheating on windows it wouldn't be worth trying to monetize it.
Bottom line: it's easy to cheat on Windows games just as well. They should drop support for all Windows games in your line of thought .... No; this issue is now being dealt with and Linux is here to stay. The current anticheat mess (that also impact games performance negatively) cannot go on much longer.
It kinda makes it easier, since source code obviously shows how the cheats being done, but at the end of the day if the core vulnerability isn't fixed, just has a tiny patch covering the vulnerability like a bandaid, such as blocking specific programs like CheatEngine or WeMod from being open when the game is, it can be bypassed fairly easily by just changing the identifier the game uses to locate said cheat.
@@celdaemon I'm just watching another video, exposing the business behind "cheating" ... It's worse than I could imagine, there are individuals making a living when providing exploits for most of the big competitive games. Dedicated forums where "cheats" gather to share the latest exploits and encourage each other. It's a plague ... I worked in the games industry years ago and I am clearly out of touch :)
@@JB.zero.zero.1 it must be somewhat fun to cheat too. I remember cheating on singleplayer games like AoE2 and having a blast, maybe something similar happens here?
i have a hypothesis that cheaters are the same kind of psychopaths as serial killers or other criminals, just not as bold. they don't care about others, they don't care about being fair and honest. psychopatology, either caused by dna mutation or an event (trauma, injury or sickness) that damaged brain
This is a waste of time. "Linux" has nothing to do with this. Cheating is easy on EVERY platform. All you have to do is look. Why are there so many cheaters in the world? I have no idea, but they are everywhere. Cheating is the problem, not Linux. Developers need to build security into their game instead outsourcing it to some crappy external low-effort solution. Now you need to go re-make this video looking for Windows cheats. Go trash that OS for awhile.
Cheating on linux is easier. Theres no memory safety. Any program can read and write anywhere in memory on linux. There are restrictions in windows but are mostly bypassed because id*ots think they require kernel access. Windows is more memory safe than linux and is harder to write cheats for because of that safety.
@@markdevaal4116 nonsense, there are plenty of "public cheats" for windows, I'd argue the average script kiddie that wants to cheat will find it way more easier to download a DLL off some forum, ragehack for 2 days and inevitably get banned once the signature has been added to the anticheat's database. You can even look up your favorite game on google as we speak and find plenty of such publicly available cheats.
How is this not a Linux problem? Nobody is saying that there aren’t cheaters on other platforms. But other platforms have effective tools for combating cheats. Linux does not. And yes we know that anti cheat software works on Linux. But it’s limited to user mode access, so its effectiveness is minimal. Until Linux has kernel level anti cheat support, however it’s implemented, don’t expect to be able to run multiplayer games where anti cheat is needed. I don’t like it either but this guy and the apex devs are right about it.
the best part is that cheaters in the bast majority arent hackers, soo they just use cheats created by someone wich means that the majority of cheaters is on windows sience its ez for them to use...
if that cheat was working on linux, it would work on windows imo, I don't see any changes to proton or wine, so cheat detection is faulty on their side, it's not a linux problem.
Well, the point is not that these cheats don't exist on Linux, but that even apart from Linux, the vast majority are still on Windows. The difference is that Linux has much less players and it is easier for them to just restrict access for everyone. In the end it's a paradox, they removed Linux because they don't have enough players and more players don't use Linux because of these restrictions.
This! Finally someone gets it. It's not that there are more Linux cheaters, it's that the number of players doesn't justify the time and effort (and money) it would take to fight them. It sucks, but can't say I completely blame them. However, I still agree with Airmax that Valve needs to step up and help getting this games safely on Linux.
You have entered into the rabbit hole. I can tell you that I've got friends who are cheating on games on Android. I will not say the name of the game but, there are a lot of people who like breaking games and cheat. This is just destroying the game of everyone. But It's a fact. That's why I don't play online games. Just a CS2 run for fun sometimes but, multiplayer games are corrupted by cheats also inside the biggest eSports competitions (and also, I don't like normal sport for the same reasons, with drugs etc...) So... What's next now? ...
We are at the eye of the storm with this anticheat mess it has become. Linux also as a gaming platform is here to stay, and this dilemma will be fixed one way or the other for good of Linux gamers. Even Valve is already at it. Steam Deck enhanced Linux gaming to next levels
The solution for the whole anti-cheats drama is easy but it's costly so I don't see companies ever doing it specially EA and it's server side cheat detection, I don't see a future for Linux multiplayer games without it
@@omarmagdy1075 companies invest so much on AI, IDK if it's really that costly. I believe that they prefer to use low level anti cheat just to sell data.
@@FagnerLuan Yeah I guess that also could be the case, but it's fair to say that server side cheat detection usually involves very big amounts of data being processed and verified by the server which is fairly a lot of data for big shooter games and also involves a lot of detecting a lot of statistical patterns in those data to detect those cheaters.
@@FagnerLuan What data, if they are extracting data from your system without your permission. Surely, that's illegal....The biggest cheats are EA themselves...
@@FagnerLuan it really is that costly, the only reason EA wants rootkit anticheat isn't really because of data, it's because it saves them shitload of money on servers and infrastructure, your data is just cherry on top. I'm a dev for a big corporation, and recently we switched to AWS for our stuff in our hub of around 300 people, and because we're using openlens, we can see the cost of stuff, our hubs dev server is around 5k-10k a month. For a small dev environment, now scale it globally and for tens of thousands of players that needs to run nonstop. That price goes into millions very quickly. And that's not even counting devs, and all of that goes into running that.
This is beyond terrible for Linux Gaming and Linux in general. This could literally kill any effort by Valve and further support from manufactures such as NVidia to the platform, something the Linux community has been struggling for ages.
@@wedge_one nope, because windows will stop signing any kernel level driver due to the Crowdstrike outage, which will mean kernel-level anticheats will die out (which I by the way predicted in a paper I wrote after the Mihoyo anti cheat driver was used for smuggling malware past defender)
Who cares? There is nothing to do to hinder it that doesn't hinder what makes linux great. It's just the reality. Cheating on online games is so bad linux or not.
Nah. Cheating on windows is almost as easy as on linux. The problem here is that companies tend to use Linux as a scapegoat to blame it for "promoting cheating" when in reality, they are either very mediocre at implementing anti-cheating measures or simply don't want to invest money in a solution for Linux.
@@08elgocho I'd argue on windows it's a much more prevalent problem due to most cheaters being script kiddies unable to code cheats on their own. Or really, do anything that requires two or more working brain cells. So basically there are two types of cheats: "public cheats" which are usually DLLs that you have to hook into the game's memory space with an injector and usually get published on cheating sites, thus their signatures are detected by anti-cheats within days, and "private cheats" which are often times invite-only and you get a standalone program that also has some form of always-online DRM etc. Those usually take a really long time to detect based on signature but you still can catch them using a combination of monitoring windows API calls and heuristics. Which any game dev worth their salt should be capable of implementing!
I've been saying it for years and I will continue to say that there can never ever be a client-side anti-cheat that a motivated cheat developer won't bypass. It's just technically not possible, so I don't understand why big gaming studios keep investing money in huge teams working on client-side anti-cheat solutions. It's a lead balloon that's never gonna fly.
They signed a contract. Plus, as others have said elsewhere, it doubles as a form of data harvesting, since it can look at literally everything on your PC.
I would like to salute you and thank you for your hard work. I renew my question. What can we do as a community to help? I'm not a online player but i lost my access to Battelfield 1 on Linux and i'm worry about other games. I never use any cheats, just like most Linux community i guess.
One ye olden anticheat method that still would work would be community moderation. It sure appears often that the purpose of these kernel level anti-cheats isn't to stop cheating; it's also to spy on users and harvest their data. Why else would they need ring 0 access?
> One ye olden anticheat method that still would work would be community moderation Apex Legends is on average banning 100k accounts / month, that is around 3000k / day. Good luck moderating that with humans, especially when the ban does not do anything, since users simply generate a new hardware ID and start cheating again.
@@zocker1600 HA! Good luck trying to overcome that in the first place even more so in the world that AI is now a thing. Centralized servers instead of community hosted (like old CS games) were ALWAYS a cancer.
Cheating in games is easy, and common in Windows. Somehow no one bans Windows, and its users. Apex is a shitty game, just like EA is a shitty company. Instead of implementing server-based anti-cheat in games, they show their customers the middle finger. They took the easy way out, just like other developers by withdrawing support from Linux. There is no excuse for how they treated their customers. Cheating in games has always been, and will be regardless of the platform if no changes are made in this matter. Especially now large corporations have been lazy for some time now, making crappy games etc. And they do not care about fully solving the problem, they prefer to choose the easiest, cheapest option. Even though looking at the long term it will bring them problems, losses etc. I believe that cheating in games should be publicly stigmatized, and there should be consequences for it. Without it, many people think they are unpunished, and can do whatever they want. I also wouldn't be surprised if some people cheating in games on Linux were paid specifically to spoil the image of Linux, and gaming on Linux in general. If people look, connect some facts, you can easily come to this conclusion. These are not conspiracy theories, but facts. There are a lot of Microsoft fanboys who would do anything to destroy Linux's image. Just go to some sites, forums, etc. It became especially visible when people began to abandon the sinking Windows ship en masse after Microsoft's recent actions ( Windows recall, Microsoft Copilot etc). After that, a lot of people went to Linux, and there was a jump in statistics.
It's also not a conspiracy theory that action purposefully against Linux have been reveiled at the likes of Microsoft. Linux gamers (actual customers too) wouldn't have to be so necessarily blocked out all suddenly from their game. The article from EA just feels disingenuous; it tries to minimize the importance of their Linux player base - and the way they refer to Linux like it is ITSELF the problem. No. The anti-cheat situation needs to see some changes soon because the snowballing anti-cheats have done to catch cheaters are actually starting to harm everyone else to an almost equal degree to the cheats themselves Linux also as a gaming platform is here to stay, as the likes of Steam Deck shows, and this AC dilemma will be eventually sorted out, server side or something else. Valve has already started to work on this issue and they have the power and resources to do much.
@@Vvariete Yeh, I agree. People forget that online games are one thing, but they forget that there are also single player games. A lot of people also like to go back to the past, and play games from their childhood. Apart from PC games, many people also play console games, especially those who want to revisit their childhood memories. A lot of people also think that this is the end of gaming on Linux because they can't play Apex lol. Gaming on Linux won't go anywhere, Valve has shown so far that it is the only company out of several that treats its customers much better. It may not be perfect, but it has contributed significantly to the development of Linux, and it will definitely continue this trend. It's also time for people to start taking matters into their own hands, and start avoiding, boycotting shitty companies. Showing them what they think about their anti-consumer activities. In short, don't buy shitty products from shitty publishers, and write appropriate comments on their social profiles.
What my dad (someone who's generally really really into linux and programming) said is that we would need a company, probably valve, do develop a kernel that uses the tpm Module to validate itself, because this can't be emulated by kernel hacks
Ubuntu comes with a signed kernel, which means that you can detect if a module wasn't provided by Canonical, AMD, etc, therefore, you can harden security by activating SecureBoot, Control-Flow Integrity (which is included starting from Kernel 6.10), etc. Game devs, or maybe Valve, should start to require that kind of stuff to be activated for some titles. There are ways to make things secure as in Windows. BTW, in Windows, users can also disable all security features.
on cs2 I've seen people say something on my squad like " im gonna turn on the cheat so we win" or "the enemy team is cheating so im gonna cheat too"and suddenly they are the best gamers I've seen in my life , i laugh at this kind of behavior because they're just angry that their skill , if the enemy team is cheating, your not helping with cheating too , if you're trash at the game, well you might as well get tf out of the game so other people play
Hello, thank you for the informative video! I had no idea about that. I've been a Linux user for over 10 years and it saddens me to see us losing games on Linux due to cheaters. I know my suggestion might sound crazy, but I believe game companies should collaborate with law enforcement. Even with a VPN, the police can still trace identities. My idea is that if someone is caught cheating, they shouldn't just be banned or hardware banned-they should face legal consequences as well. For instance, paying a fine of 2000 euros for cheating. It's like a cyber crime, ruining companies' games and people's fun. Additionally, they should force you to use a phone number in each game you play to help verify identities and deter cheaters. This could help reduce the number of cheaters in games.
This is definitely a radical approach, but I understand. I am also of the opinion not to restrict people's freedom, but to severely punish the abuse of freedom to the detriment of others.
@@mikoajneronowicz582 Your freedom end where mine start. If i want to play a game that is backup by a company that profits with me(and all other users) and X person cheates, it's harming my experience, other players experience and the company. It's like using substances do enchance atlethic perfomance, it's not just wrong it's forbbiden.
@@mikoajneronowicz582 Thank you for your reply, I appreciate your perspective. Finding the right balance between freedom and accountability is important. Severe consequences for cheaters could help protect the integrity of our gaming experiences. 😊
The problem with that approach is that if someone hacks into my account they pretty much have all my info and could dox me. I think getting doxed will be much higher of a risk than removing a few cheaters
@@crashniels Thanks for raising that point. Gaming companies prioritize keeping user data secure, and using authenticators and being cautious about apps can further protect your information.
When making multiplayer games i always heard that you should never trust the client and that the server should analize movement and everything the player does and verify if its possible and it actually worked pretty good but yes then the companies would need to upgrade their servers by a little bit more resources like ram and cpu. Let's say cs2 the server takes almost no resources it's super light because their is no server side anticheat, theoreticly they could pay a little bit more for servers and they would have less cheaters and they wouldn't need to pay high costs of developing an client side anticheat or buying one but yes then you actually need to have people who can program really good and have basic knowledge of networking and binary. And when you are scared of the costs of servers you don't need to be it's actually cheaper if you buy the server and not rent it from some hosting provider in long run.
The nature of cheating is exactly the same in both Windows and Linux, so it's not easier or harder in one or another. There might be tools available for one or the other, or both, that will make it easier or harder. But they will essentially do the exact same. In fact I'd say sometimes it's actually a bit harder (in general, not talking about Apex specifically) on Linux due to things like address space randomization, but for things like crafting custom network packets or server exploits, it's the exact same thing since it involves the network, not your system. Not to mention that there are other ways to use "external" cheats like modified controllers or even on-board memory readers. it's a myth to say that "it's easier on Linux because it's Open Source" or any BS like that. If anything, Windows Defender might flag your cheats as malware. But you can easily bypass that by making an exception or just disabling defender.
I wonder what anticheats do on linux? Do they ensure secure boot is enabled and do they make sure kernel modules have valid signatures. Do the anticheats attempt to enforce kernels on a Linux Machines to have certain security features enabled.
> Do they ensure secure boot is enabled They cannot, because you can edit kernel source to always return true to that syscall request. > do they make sure kernel modules have valid signatures They cannot, because also here the kernel can be made lying about those signatures. > Do the anticheats attempt to enforce kernels on a Linux Machines to have certain security features enabled. Pointless because also here, they cannot trust the kernel as anyone can just git pull the kernel source and edit all the syscalls that the anti-cheat is doing.
@@local_communist Physical cheats exist sadly. Like actual robot looking at the screen with a camera, moving a real mouse around :P If we go far enough this path, we end with the need to learn telepathy. But people have made progress with server-side anti-cheat. Or at least detection. Good examples are Valve's Overwatch system (which I have no idea if it is still in use!) and MegaScatterBomb's database!
@@1KiloDepartment I am aware but if anticheats checked these things on linux it would reduce the amount of safe free cheats which actually might be a bad thing because paid cheats exist because a market is created by the knowledge required in creating these cheats. So these cheats are guaranteed to exist and be much more advanced and harder to detect. FOSS cheats can easily be analyzed to be made easy to detect/prevent server-side. I agree server anticheats are the away forward. Client-side anticheat is just being lazy. Cheats will always exist in very powerful ways if you give the client all the power but with server-side anti-cheat it severely limits what cheats can do. Minecraft is a good example of this. Some of the best anticheats on Minecraft are really good it doesn't stop cheating but it limits how powerful you can be.
@@local_communist that is what Valorant and Microsoft are doing with enforcing TPMv2 and Secure Boot. I dont think that will be accepted by Linux users though.
Things which did not surprise me at all without knowing for sure: - Cheating is extremely easy. - Cheating on Linux is as easy. - Cheats are freely available, even open-source - Many cheaters come from Windows to Linux to cheat - Hardware IDs can be spoofed Solution to this problem: - Developers need to understand that client-side anticheat is a stupid idea. - Developers need to implement a proper mechanism to ban users (not accounts, not hardware - users) - Developers need to implement a mechanism to verify cheaters in a game without running specific software on the cheating client That's it. Such a solution would work across the board on every platform.
@thejackimonster9689 nope... many cheaters are not coming from windows to Linux. If that were in anyway true, Linux would have more than 2% market share.
My guy you are a genius, can you work on the solutions please? Its always so easy to name the solution but do you know how much time, money and effort it will cost? Waiting for you to solve all the problems, chad, lets go
@@VektrumSimulacrum Nope: 4.35% share right now, though probably doesn't matter much, as this increase happened after Windows 11, along with Mac OS's increase :P
@@sperrex465 It's not really as difficult. Implement a replay system for players to validate whether other people cheat or not. Combine it with a community tribunal. Then bind accounts to personal identities via social ID or similar (most important is the attribute that it can't easily be spoofed or people can have multiple). There you go. All of these components exist in some form already. Even though most games tend to link phone numbers or credit card information to peoples accounts. That however wouldn't work since people could have multiple phone numbers and it's pretty easy to use virtual credit cards.
@@VektrumSimulacrum If people wouldn't come from Windows, why would they discuss about which Linux distribution is best for gaming? No long term Linux user would do something like that since they would know, distros really don't matter in that regard.
The problem is that with anticheat, it's a common cat and mouse game. We cannot simply pin it on the ease of use on Linux (and to be honest, it is super easy to do so because there's nothing stopping you between the client and server), and opening another vector for attack (Linux, EAC for example) can be a cause for cheaters to migrate. It's sadly a headache for everyone, not just Windows or Linux users, and the tribalism is really petty and silly. Anticheat cannot simply just be left to EAC heuristics, there has to be someone in the middle to catch issues in the Risk Department and Offensive Security. Considering this, EA probably decided that it's not worth the manpower to use EAC on Linux, and decided to disable EAC there, preventing the legitimate players from playing there. It's a sacrifice, and cheaters ruin everything for legitimate players, Linux or Windows otherwise. The fact that the cheats were open sourced should have been an indication to EA that they should have patched those holes up, and mass banned whenever possible. It's unfortunate that Linux was affected by this, but with cheating being so prevalent in the esports community, any vector of attack will be used if there's an opportunity.
Cheaters are the poison to promote Linux switching for someone who wants to use a computer for many purposes and gaming, or just for gaming. Because of them, editors close the access to their games to Linux, and the efforts made by Valve seemed to be put to the trash. Hopefully, companies will find solutions, whether it's anticheat or OS editor, kernel maintainer, or any geek out there ...
Hah yes. The platform they always talks about being irrelevant among the userbase, Is suddenly the platform responsible for the most cheaters. Makes mathematical sense, alright.
When you buy a game, you must be able to play it on Console, Windows, Linux or Mac. At least that's how it should be. Cheating makes absolutely no sense to me.
Hardware spoofing can be done in Windows, which is also completely ineffective in Windows. Open source vs closed source doesn't matter. Both Linux and Windows cheats are following the same path to break into the game memory state and changing it. This comes down to "We don't want to deal with Linux cheaters, just Windows ones". Linux gamer base is not big enough for the game corps to care about, sadly.
The solution is server-side anticheat. Client-side anticheat is inherently flawed. I don't understand why these companies are so stubborn and insist on continuing to do things this way.
No it is not a solution, because it cannot prevent cheat like wallhacks. A server has no way to find out that a client is able to see through walls, because all the packages coming from the client are legitimate. And in case you did not know: most games already have server-side anti-cheat, but all the kernel level stuff got introduced, because server-side it is not enough. So arguing that it is the solution is ironic.
@@robertjames4908 Most games on PC also use server-side anti-cheat. The reason why cheating on consoles is so hard is because the hardware and software they run is completely locked down. You first have to hack the console via some security hole to even get access to the hardware in the first place and then you need so start finding a way to manipulate the game itself.
@@zocker1600 Back to admin servers where people got banned good and proper. AI could do this on the server side....If you appear to be cheating you get kicked....
I believe we should put a huge focus on AI anti-cheats I don't mind AI watching my gameplay whenever someone reports me for cheating while yes ai has banned me once for 24h on CS2(high sensitivity). I believe this could be a step in the right direction but obviously more money and development has to be put into a such solution this bundled with some basic form of an anti-cheat like VAC and we have got ourselves a good non invasive way of detecting cheaters while also not compromising the users privacy.
Honestly Valve creating a new competitive shooter game in order to create a new standards for dealing with cheaters and show the video game industry how its done is smart
So if the anti-cheat isn't that intrusive on Linux that could be why Apex runs smoother on Linux... I didn't knew it was this easy to wipe like hardware id... I expect it to be easy to find free cheats but the hardware wipe stuff explains a lot why they just keep coming back, that's totally justified, I am hoping this solves the problem...
@@MauricioPaim It's way easier to spend some bucks into buying a cheat, that can be found from a range of 10~30 bucks, than installing a whole another OS, formating your drive, learning the basics of Linux, etc...
@@ShidNoh and if you're an adult. But If a kid downloads linux to cheat in a video game then good on them for at least ditching windows and learning something new
It's not that Devs aren't doing their jobs it's just the nature of business to take the easy way out, I've seen it endless times. Especially if they have "incentive. Cheaters are a sad group and I actually feel sorry for them.
as a tarkov player, I can tell you, everyone that's cheating in that game is on windows... cheat developers need to make money so they develop these things FOR windows........
One point i don't understand (i don't play multi) : you start a game with a cheat mode, you kill every one, you hit with any bullet on every target, you do max score and so on ... and NO ONE on server side notices about it ??? Who manages servers ??? Developers are stuck with "Our Super Anti-Cheat" concept, but it doesn't work : cheaters were on Windows, and they are now on Linux.
it doesn't work like that... Every cheater that just trys to look legit will not be banned Server side stuff will only fix some exploits but thats it nothing more
17 днів тому
Regardless whether Microsoft lobbies against Linux in online games, they are threatened by the expanse of Valve-Steam and thus Linux. This is a huge win for them.
At this point I wouldnt mind a kernel anticheat module. DKMS could probably easily put it in all kernels. Though even kernel anticheat can be bypassed.
Kernel anticheat just needs to go. It seeks an impossible goal to prevent cheating, it predictably fails at this, and it throws all user privacy and security out the window in the process. Valve recognizes it. Linux devs recognize it. This is why they won't do it. Honestly, games that ship this malware are not even worth playing.
I really don't care. I don't play games that require anti cheat software. These game creators create a house of cards and then complain when people cheat. Demand full access to your system to protect their house of cards. The reality is the anticheat isn't stopping anybody. Not on Linux and certainly not on Windows. The anticheat only keeps the honest people honest, that's it. The whole Apex Legend Linux debacle is just shining a light on how weak the house of cards really is and that pisses off EA. I think it's a good thing. Now EA and all the other publishers can go forward and rethink their approach to anti cheat and the design of their games. I'm sure we will get better games in the future because of it.
@@lloydbond13 ok that's great for you, but there are others who only play games that require anti cheat and those are the people we need converting to Linux.
@@Umbralogy Then play the games with AntiCheat that play. Voting with your feet and your dollars is the only way to get these developers to make any meaningful change.
If it's so easy then a simple cost benefit analysis would have been all that's required to make the decision to yeet the games Linux support. The cost and time required to secure the game on Linux and add in the lack of customers using the game on Linux... it wouldn't make sense to invest further into Linux. Sony made the same decision with the PS3 when they yeeted Linux support.
IMO Valve need to develop the Linux anti-cheat and have it work in proton. I would trust a kernel level anti-cheat from valve that was maybe a DKMS kernel module and they should just make it where its ONLY loaded when playing multiplayer games
the funniest thing is most of popular engines already have server authority network model, so implementing such anticheats wouldn't be a problem. for example a single basic ray casting to check visibility on server alrady would cut 99% of wallhack usability. the second problem is game design. weapons should avoid using hitscan, with slow projectiles (like rockets in rocket launchers), aimbots are almost useless, unless they can do leading prediction and you move in straight predictable line.
No it is not a solution, because it cannot prevent cheat like wallhacks. A server has no way to find out that a client is able to see through walls, because all the packages coming from the client are legitimate. And in case you did not know: most games already have server-side anti-cheat, but all the kernel level stuff got introduced, because server-side it is not enough. So arguing that it is the solution is ironic.
@@hoyteternal > for example a single basic ray casting to check visibility on server alrady would cut 99% of wallhack usability No it would not, because if the server sends the position of the player behind the wall to the client, the client can see it with a wallhack. If the server does not send the position, you will have an unplayable game, because the latency is too high for FPS games, causing players to pop out of nowhere when running around a corner. Slower paced games like World of Tanks already use that model and it works great, but it is unworkable for FPS games. > with slow projectiles (like rockets in rocket launchers), aimbots are almost useless True, although very obvious aimbots are already quite easy to detect server side and by analyzing aim movement.
@@zocker1600 Having them show up for the client as they're just about to become visible is still a lot better than having them always visible from halfway across the map, throuhg 20 walls
Future: The next anti-cheat should be an AI anti-cheat on server side. I think there is a lot of things that you can check easy on server side now. I think the problem is the big compagnies don't even understand the engine they use and the server side of things.
@@guillaumehuardhughes or instead of putting AI in another place it doesn’t belong, we do what every single secure networked program does and DONT TRUST THE CLIENT. If enemies are out of sight or should be out of sight from the player, DONT RENDER THEM UNTIL THE VERY LAST SECOND. If the player has consistently been moving faster than expected boot them from the game, Have human moderators and community servers, stop with this matchmaking slop. Expect the clients hardware, operating system, and client are all attackers trying to cheat. If you have to trust any one of these things, you are a bad anticheat. Triple A game devs make hundreds of millions of dollars. Surely they can hire 50 people for 16 dollars an hour to go over reported games and watch replays.
the cheating process is the same on windows, unless a game has kernel level anticheat. of course cheating is bad, although I don't think just anticheat will help enough. only prosecution of cheat developers and cheaters will help. this is just another form of public disorder. cheating in games is not different to some drunkard yelling and banging against a window of a restaurant you with your friends chilling in. only law enforcement will punish such misbehaviour adequately
(Game) Companies want to have control over the systems of their users. Preventing cheating is only the secondary goal. If it was the main goal, game companies would do cheating prevention on the systems they actually control, the servers. But that would cost money to operate and not give them control over their costumes hardware.
Dear cheaters you can use Microsoft's software called Hyper-V Make EA force Wincels to use secure boot and no virtualization on their PCs, like Riot did.
I remember back in the late 1990s this 2d space MMO SubSpace I use to play, there was a cheat engine or one called twister, the developer made a protection in the game protocal to stop it for a client he made. Ya, I despize cheaters too, then there is lag too. Tough cause in this game when you duel, those kill bullets really suck when lag or cheats ruin it, especially if you are dueling a real tough opponent. Like you say real piece of trash, no skills so just cheat, so lame.
I'll just leave this here in the case of Apex Legends: that game has always had cheaters from its launch, way before Proton was even a viable thing. So for EA to then years later remove Linux support out of fear of cheaters is highly disingenuous and only reduces their playerbase. Unfortunately EA/Apex likely will still survive because the audience of Linux users is low, but that also makes it tragically funny in a way: EA pulling the plug on Linux support when there are likely lesser players on such an OS to begin with shows a competency problem on their part if they are more afraid of players that were only introduced access to the game years after launch where it already faced rampant cheating problems, rather than idk thinking more about why they have been recurring when Apex was on Windows this whole time.
I have always wanted to have cheats in single player as I'm not skilled enough to end the games. But, for multiplayer and online gaming, i don't understand the necessity to cheat. It's a non sense, as the opponents are human, not a program. If humans are more skilled than one self, the guy should connect to another server/room where there are people of his level. Or, the gaming editors should let the users connect to different servers depending on their levels, but it should avoid letting skilled people play with beginners and disable connections to rooms in which the level difference is too high.
So, help me get this... There is 5 open-source cheat tools, that the company could study fix the vulnerabilities, but this is a Linux problem? Yeah, right...
Cheaters on Linux are ruining things for other Linux users that don't cheat because these companies aren't going to make any efforts to support Linux any time soon if they did before, I believe Valve though or other publishers that support Linux need to force these devs to provide Linux support for anticheat or they cannot publish on steam..but thats my pipe dream. The excuse by the devs about cheaters on Linux is that the cheating is "harder to detect" ..which sounds like a cop-out...
Virtual machines? Integrity checks? Proton? Surely the game could check for changes and revert them? Could proton/windows virtual machines be used to limit Linux specific attacks?
The answer is no, and that really shouldn't be possible either. The moment you limit what you can do on a linux machine, you take away ownership of that machine, the whole reason most people started using linux in the first place. So no I would not want to see kernel level anticheat on linux, nor janky client anticheat systems that can you can just bypass if you want. Every single thing you could do for those things is to the detriment of the user experience. Games should just do the proper thing and validate input on the server, and do anticheat things there. The idea that the client input can be trusted at all is dumb, even with client side anticheat.
> Surely the game could check for changes and revert them How is it supposed to do that? The game relies on kernel syscalls to get that information, all of which can be easily manipulated by changing the kernel source code.
@@celdaemon > Games should just do the proper thing and validate input on the server, and do anticheat things there This is already done in most games, but it is not enough, because you cannot detect wallhacks that way, since all the packages by the client are legitimate. At no point in time does the cheat manipulate packages sent to the server.
1:51 I do :) And I have fun. I made a bot script for Roblox and tested it on a literal baseplate, it was fun :) Also, fun fact, you have to do it anyways in order to prevent it. It's like asking how to prevent something when you know nothing about that something. You NEED to TEST or EXPERIMENT. Anyways, 2:07 It takes way more skill to make these things than to just run them 💀 2:09 I have way more satisfaction when I make it myself.
2:13 I mean if you code them yourself, it's basically the same as playing the game a lot. You have a skill and use it in the game. Yes it is a different kind of skill, but a skill whatsoever.
@A1RM4X Trust me it is. You need different skills to achieve your goals. If you are good at it you can also build a career as a malware analyst from it, so yes it takes quite a lot of skill to create cheats.
@A1RM4X oh it's all because of cheaters? Maybe they should start banning windows next. For real though, you can really feel the incompetence on their side. Yes it might be easier to cheat on Linux but let's face it, if they would focus more on getting shit done instead of banning platforms for near to no reasons, they wouldn't have those problems. Server sided detections and checks are a thing and valve proved that you can ship a game without an intrusive AC. Counter Strike 2 was infested with cheaters and they managed to ban quite a lot of them. Of course there are still cheaters and there will be forever, but they did a good job and nearly all rage features get you banned nowadays.
There will always be cheaters in any game. Hacking and breaking into programs is the fun part for many hackers. Linux has a very small personal desktop computing market share. However a big portion of these users are high level users who like to tinker with software and hardware. So its not surprising that Linux game hacking is easier. The very open source hacking culture gets into free hacking software as well. Linux is like the development board, which is open and easy to tinker with and windows is like a commercial laptop or phone which is locked down and you need to pay for higher level access and features. Windows cheaters usually pay for cheats while linux seems to be the open beta testing for these cheats before being deployed for paying customers.
I get it, but what's the point of anti-cheat then? It doesn't matter if it's easy to cheat on linux if the anti-cheat can discover and shut it down. Also, I stopped play online games a long time ago. Probably only play about two and that's barely. I personally don't care losing a few money-grabbing games.
Damm... I didn't think this bad for their to remove from linux OS. It mean the main game engine have easy be hacked. Another thing is that those game have been leak to src code to able to cheat if they ref the data. To create anti-cheat on Linux is not simple task. Since it has they have no / kernel access I think since user have free range to custom their hardware and sandbox as well. While the window is strict but flaw as well.
The cheats on the AUR is scary as hell. I know its not moderated. But we cannot scream out loud if something like this exists. Installing something from the AUR and lookig for something on the AUR is easier and sometimes safer than lookig on shady sites and run a shady exe on windows.
If I had to take a shot, I'd say that the number of cheaters on windows is at least 10x of the people looking for cheats in the AUR. Even in the linux ecosystem the number of users on arch is pretty small, yet you don't see them blocking windows users, that's why blocking linux users is such a dumb thing.
> The first solution that comes to my mind is server-side cheat detection systems. < But this is much harder to do. Let's just ban Linux from gaming. Who cares?
Until everyone, and I mean everyone, quits supporting extortion products (Live Service Games) this problem will never be solved. Linux has never been the problem. The Devs and Publishers doing the bare minimum to protect their product in exchange for massive returns on MTX are the problem. These are the real Cheaters; siphoning away every element of joy from the games they create in exchange for your credit card info.
@@End0fst0ry what are you suggesting to fix the problem? I love how ppl in this comment section act like the developers of EAC are dumb and it would be very easy to fix.
what do you mean by working with linux devs kernel anticheat is literally not possible on linux anyway there is already better way get rid off cheaters that doesnt require kernel ac and that is server side anticheat but that is a BIG nono because $$$
The reality is valve wont do anything, if they could and wanted to they would have already. In reality its expensive to fix, and many companies wont go along as valve is a competitor and really the only solution is make a signed and validated kernel module with hooks into user space. The solution is easy and even Riot mentioned it - theyd activate their anticheat on linux if Linux had a signed and verified kernel that could call to userspace and thats locked down
EA is a company known for selling gambling-style card packs to kids, which has hurt their reputation significantly. On top of that, they seem to operate as a puppet for Microsoft. That’s why games like FIFA aren’t available on Linux - Microsoft doesn’t want people to play it on devices like the Steam Deck, and it's so obvious that even someone blind to the industry could see it. EA’s motives aren’t about fair gameplay or managing cheaters; instead, they focus on finding out what players are willing to pay for. They restrict access to Linux because they’re worried the Linux community will call out their issues publicly in UA-cam videos and on social media, making people think EA is addressing cheating issues. However, this is just a smoke screen - they haven’t actually resolved the root problems in Apex Legends or any other games. Banned users make up a large portion of Apex Legends' peak player base, showing that their solutions are far from effective. Please keep this in mind when making your videos, as supporting EA can indirectly harm the Linux community and even companies like Valve. It’s evident that EA has been against Linux from the beginning and will continue to work against our community. Let’s focus on holding EA accountable for these issues, not just on the developers or cheaters. The real problem lies with EA’s practices, like targeting kids with gambling elements, which need to change.
The Cheating software is open source, making it super easy for EA to defeat since they know exactly how it hooks into the game, instead they use the nuclear option and destroy the entire linux support, lmao
I dont think that this is a problem with linux but rather a problem with the developers of Apex Legends not supporting the Linux architecture. Apex Legend doesn't run natively on Linux but instead runs through Proton to work with linux. And this is what people abuse. If this stupid developers ever had a true native Linux port then this might be a different story. But since the developers of Apex Legends are stupidly greedy to not build a native port, it make a pool of problem for them. And these devs hate linux as far as we know. I just do wish Steam ban all their games.
it should available for every one who pays for the game including the cheaters?// No game company dedicated to paying customer. if he pays . let em cheat !! What valve did is sjowing arrogant bullshit
I mean, I guess this is news for you but open source cheats are as old as time, and I don't mean Linux cheats, wow bots, hacks etc is just normal, but the fact that the cheats are out there for everybody to see and they still can't do anything about it when they have the source code at their disposal it's the problem, and no, Linux is not making it easier, the EAC is making it easier by being useless
Most cheaters are script kiddies and most script kiddies use Windows. Blocking Linux will never solve cheating issues.
But if a game wants to punish Linux for a problem that's largely Windows then I'll consider it another game that is not worth playing and will just as easily find something else.
yes, it’ll solve. you might be 40y old, but recent EAC updates forces decent amount of cheater to go KVM or Linux build. i can assure you steps to detecting KVM is next step
@@flexmadeitright-b7r you are naive cheaters are even using pcie cards to have direct memory access
The problem is that game devs tend to forget about the first rule of cybersecurity
You can never, under any circumstances, trust the client.
Even the kernel-level stuff will become just as easy to bypass as what we're seeing here, it's just a matter of time.
Exactly this.
All of the games should use server side anticheat for 20 years now.
Yeah, but it's very tempting to offload the cheat detection compute to the clients instead of having to do it on your servers and paying for it.
Server side anti cheat can't prevent many types of cheats, such as wallhack. There is no guaranteed way to prevent cheating, there are only ways to reduce it significantly. Banning linux is one easy way to do that.
@@notuxnobux That's true, server side anti-cheat is more expensive and would likely require human intervention to ban enough cheaters. But maybe these huge game companies should spend some resources actually trying a different approach instead of taking the cheap route and installing rootkits on all users' machines.
@@notuxnobux yes but banning linux gaming is not right thing to do, same could be compared to racism for example you are not allowed to buy certaing things because of your skin color or something like that.
Damn, cheaters are going to ruin our Linux experience now :/
Next, we just disguise as windows.
Yeah , now we have to pay for cheats :D ha ha ha - Bro EA is Ea they are selling gambling to kids with stickers but now they care about cheaters ? L O L
I hope you know that you can do this on Windows too. Cheats comes down to edit part of memory (RAM). Anty cheats like easyantycheat can be bypassed too. I'm glad that I drop online games 10 years ago :)
Yeah, but the cheats on Windows are behind paywalls most of the time where Linux ones are usually provided for free.
@@StrangeDays-v6x Linux cheats have a lot more friction tho, most people don't have linux installed and don't want to install it. Id argue that there are a lot more cheaters on windows using paid cheats than people using free cheats on linux.
@@StrangeDays-v6x What difference does it make if it's paid or not? Windows cheats are like 10€ with free upgrades, in fact the new trend is to have a cheat that works for several different games, Warzone, CSGO, Apex, PUBG increasing the value of the cheat.
@@grgasca56 of course it matters, if something is completely free 100% people would choose the free one over the paid one, no matter how low the price of paid cheats are.
@@StrangeDays-v6x That just says that there's so many cheaters on windows that it's worth to put them behind a paywall so the cheat maker can make money out of it, if it was only 3-4 people cheating on windows it wouldn't be worth trying to monetize it.
Bottom line: it's easy to cheat on Windows games just as well. They should drop support for all Windows games in your line of thought .... No; this issue is now being dealt with and Linux is here to stay. The current anticheat mess (that also impact games performance negatively) cannot go on much longer.
no it is not. you have to pay money. free cheats will get you banned.
@@prakhars962lol this argument is literally copium at its finest (not you but OP)
Damn even cheating sofware is better on linux 😭
Having the cheats open source isn't making it easier to patch the vulnerabilities that the cheats are using?
@@ANGELRA Kinda, it also makes it more accessible and some devs probably get pissed of when they see cheating been soo open that they open source it
It kinda makes it easier, since source code obviously shows how the cheats being done, but at the end of the day if the core vulnerability isn't fixed, just has a tiny patch covering the vulnerability like a bandaid, such as blocking specific programs like CheatEngine or WeMod from being open when the game is, it can be bypassed fairly easily by just changing the identifier the game uses to locate said cheat.
Also makes the cheats easier and faster to update since everyone can contribute. Cat and mouse game won't stop
Open source means you can build it on every platform, because you have a semantics of how too. It's just happens that Linux likes open source culture
@@rengaret not really. You can have an open source program that only runs on one platform
Cheaters ruin everything... yet again.
Yes, this time is much worse and dangerous. Probabily the future of Linux gaming in the hand of these cheaters.
its the game devs and community hurt the game way more than cheaters could ever dream of lmfao
@@Wkaelx ...because they can't implement a PROPER server AntiCheat, like not sending the positions of players behind walls and etc.
I'll never understand cheating in video games.
The most desperate act imaginable to bolster a shriveled ego.
These must be children, surely.
Oh yeah they absolutely are
@@celdaemon
I'm just watching another video, exposing the business behind "cheating" ...
It's worse than I could imagine, there are individuals making a living when providing exploits for most of the big competitive games.
Dedicated forums where "cheats" gather to share the latest exploits and encourage each other.
It's a plague ...
I worked in the games industry years ago and I am clearly out of touch :)
@@JB.zero.zero.1 it must be somewhat fun to cheat too. I remember cheating on singleplayer games like AoE2 and having a blast, maybe something similar happens here?
i have a hypothesis that cheaters are the same kind of psychopaths as serial killers or other criminals, just not as bold. they don't care about others, they don't care about being fair and honest. psychopatology, either caused by dna mutation or an event (trauma, injury or sickness) that damaged brain
they are psychopaths, like criminals. either dna mutation they were born with, or brain damage
This is a waste of time. "Linux" has nothing to do with this. Cheating is easy on EVERY platform. All you have to do is look. Why are there so many cheaters in the world? I have no idea, but they are everywhere. Cheating is the problem, not Linux. Developers need to build security into their game instead outsourcing it to some crappy external low-effort solution. Now you need to go re-make this video looking for Windows cheats. Go trash that OS for awhile.
The problem is that these windows cheats are behind a paywall and for Linux they are almost for free.
thanks for saving me 14 mins
Cheating on linux is easier. Theres no memory safety. Any program can read and write anywhere in memory on linux. There are restrictions in windows but are mostly bypassed because id*ots think they require kernel access.
Windows is more memory safe than linux and is harder to write cheats for because of that safety.
@@markdevaal4116 nonsense, there are plenty of "public cheats" for windows, I'd argue the average script kiddie that wants to cheat will find it way more easier to download a DLL off some forum, ragehack for 2 days and inevitably get banned once the signature has been added to the anticheat's database.
You can even look up your favorite game on google as we speak and find plenty of such publicly available cheats.
How is this not a Linux problem? Nobody is saying that there aren’t cheaters on other platforms. But other platforms have effective tools for combating cheats. Linux does not. And yes we know that anti cheat software works on Linux. But it’s limited to user mode access, so its effectiveness is minimal. Until Linux has kernel level anti cheat support, however it’s implemented, don’t expect to be able to run multiplayer games where anti cheat is needed. I don’t like it either but this guy and the apex devs are right about it.
Spoofing your hwid is possible in Windows as well, as it should be. Nobody should be able to fingerprint your machine...
cheating not only ruin the online gaming but also the linux community
the best part is that cheaters in the bast majority arent hackers, soo they just use cheats created by someone wich means that the majority of cheaters is on windows sience its ez for them to use...
if that cheat was working on linux, it would work on windows imo, I don't see any changes to proton or wine, so cheat detection is faulty on their side, it's not a linux problem.
Except for the part where cheat running in the background would be detected by anti-cheat on Windows, but can't be detected on Linux.
Well, the point is not that these cheats don't exist on Linux, but that even apart from Linux, the vast majority are still on Windows.
The difference is that Linux has much less players and it is easier for them to just restrict access for everyone. In the end it's a paradox, they removed Linux because they don't have enough players and more players don't use Linux because of these restrictions.
This! Finally someone gets it. It's not that there are more Linux cheaters, it's that the number of players doesn't justify the time and effort (and money) it would take to fight them. It sucks, but can't say I completely blame them. However, I still agree with Airmax that Valve needs to step up and help getting this games safely on Linux.
The simple solution is: don't play games from shitty companies
You have entered into the rabbit hole.
I can tell you that I've got friends who are cheating on games on Android. I will not say the name of the game but, there are a lot of people who like breaking games and cheat.
This is just destroying the game of everyone. But It's a fact.
That's why I don't play online games. Just a CS2 run for fun sometimes but, multiplayer games are corrupted by cheats also inside the biggest eSports competitions (and also, I don't like normal sport for the same reasons, with drugs etc...)
So... What's next now? ...
We are at the eye of the storm with this anticheat mess it has become. Linux also as a gaming platform is here to stay, and this dilemma will be fixed one way or the other for good of Linux gamers. Even Valve is already at it. Steam Deck enhanced Linux gaming to next levels
Hopefully, new AI server side anticheats will come to play....Just need a killer linux based game to make it popular...
@@robertjames4908 Valve (which firmly now stands for Linux gaming) kinda has The Ace in its sleeve; Half-Life 3...
@@robertjames4908or, or, hear me out, community servers moderated by said community? Hm?
The solution for the whole anti-cheats drama is easy but it's costly so I don't see companies ever doing it specially EA and it's server side cheat detection, I don't see a future for Linux multiplayer games without it
@@omarmagdy1075 companies invest so much on AI, IDK if it's really that costly. I believe that they prefer to use low level anti cheat just to sell data.
@@omarmagdy1075 they had server side anticheat in battlefield money, they only want your sweet data to sell
@@FagnerLuan Yeah I guess that also could be the case, but it's fair to say that server side cheat detection usually involves very big amounts of data being processed and verified by the server which is fairly a lot of data for big shooter games and also involves a lot of detecting a lot of statistical patterns in those data to detect those cheaters.
@@FagnerLuan What data, if they are extracting data from your system without your permission. Surely, that's illegal....The biggest cheats are EA themselves...
@@FagnerLuan it really is that costly, the only reason EA wants rootkit anticheat isn't really because of data, it's because it saves them shitload of money on servers and infrastructure, your data is just cherry on top. I'm a dev for a big corporation, and recently we switched to AWS for our stuff in our hub of around 300 people, and because we're using openlens, we can see the cost of stuff, our hubs dev server is around 5k-10k a month. For a small dev environment, now scale it globally and for tens of thousands of players that needs to run nonstop. That price goes into millions very quickly. And that's not even counting devs, and all of that goes into running that.
This is beyond terrible for Linux Gaming and Linux in general. This could literally kill any effort by Valve and further support from manufactures such as NVidia to the platform, something the Linux community has been struggling for ages.
@@wedge_one nope, because windows will stop signing any kernel level driver due to the Crowdstrike outage, which will mean kernel-level anticheats will die out (which I by the way predicted in a paper I wrote after the Mihoyo anti cheat driver was used for smuggling malware past defender)
Who cares? There is nothing to do to hinder it that doesn't hinder what makes linux great. It's just the reality.
Cheating on online games is so bad linux or not.
Nah. Cheating on windows is almost as easy as on linux.
The problem here is that companies tend to use Linux as a scapegoat to blame it for "promoting cheating" when in reality, they are either very mediocre at implementing anti-cheating measures or simply don't want to invest money in a solution for Linux.
@@08elgocho I'd argue on windows it's a much more prevalent problem due to most cheaters being script kiddies unable to code cheats on their own. Or really, do anything that requires two or more working brain cells.
So basically there are two types of cheats: "public cheats" which are usually DLLs that you have to hook into the game's memory space with an injector and usually get published on cheating sites, thus their signatures are detected by anti-cheats within days, and "private cheats" which are often times invite-only and you get a standalone program that also has some form of always-online DRM etc. Those usually take a really long time to detect based on signature but you still can catch them using a combination of monitoring windows API calls and heuristics.
Which any game dev worth their salt should be capable of implementing!
@@baraka629 Uh... you do realize those headlines were false and Microsoft isn't actually killing kernel-level anticheats?
I've been saying it for years and I will continue to say that there can never ever be a client-side anti-cheat that a motivated cheat developer won't bypass. It's just technically not possible, so I don't understand why big gaming studios keep investing money in huge teams working on client-side anti-cheat solutions. It's a lead balloon that's never gonna fly.
They signed a contract. Plus, as others have said elsewhere, it doubles as a form of data harvesting, since it can look at literally everything on your PC.
I would like to salute you and thank you for your hard work. I renew my question. What can we do as a community to help? I'm not a online player but i lost my access to Battelfield 1 on Linux and i'm worry about other games. I never use any cheats, just like most Linux community i guess.
Sadly, not much. It isn't illegal, so that route is out.
One ye olden anticheat method that still would work would be community moderation. It sure appears often that the purpose of these kernel level anti-cheats isn't to stop cheating; it's also to spy on users and harvest their data. Why else would they need ring 0 access?
> One ye olden anticheat method that still would work would be community moderation
Apex Legends is on average banning 100k accounts / month, that is around 3000k / day. Good luck moderating that with humans, especially when the ban does not do anything, since users simply generate a new hardware ID and start cheating again.
@@zocker1600 HA! Good luck trying to overcome that in the first place even more so in the world that AI is now a thing. Centralized servers instead of community hosted (like old CS games) were ALWAYS a cancer.
This is why companies don't support Anti-cheat on Linux (i.e. GTA V) despite it being available. Anti-cheat on Linux is laughably easy to overcome.
Cheating in games is easy, and common in Windows. Somehow no one bans Windows, and its users. Apex is a shitty game, just like EA is a shitty company. Instead of implementing server-based anti-cheat in games, they show their customers the middle finger. They took the easy way out, just like other developers by withdrawing support from Linux.
There is no excuse for how they treated their customers. Cheating in games has always been, and will be regardless of the platform if no changes are made in this matter. Especially now large corporations have been lazy for some time now, making crappy games etc. And they do not care about fully solving the problem, they prefer to choose the easiest, cheapest option. Even though looking at the long term it will bring them problems, losses etc.
I believe that cheating in games should be publicly stigmatized, and there should be consequences for it. Without it, many people think they are unpunished, and can do whatever they want. I also wouldn't be surprised if some people cheating in games on Linux were paid specifically to spoil the image of Linux, and gaming on Linux in general.
If people look, connect some facts, you can easily come to this conclusion. These are not conspiracy theories, but facts. There are a lot of Microsoft fanboys who would do anything to destroy Linux's image. Just go to some sites, forums, etc. It became especially visible when people began to abandon the sinking Windows ship en masse after Microsoft's recent actions ( Windows recall, Microsoft Copilot etc). After that, a lot of people went to Linux, and there was a jump in statistics.
It's also not a conspiracy theory that action purposefully against Linux have been reveiled at the likes of Microsoft. Linux gamers (actual customers too) wouldn't have to be so necessarily blocked out all suddenly from their game.
The article from EA just feels disingenuous; it tries to minimize the importance of their Linux player base - and the way they refer to Linux like it is ITSELF the problem. No.
The anti-cheat situation needs to see some changes soon because the snowballing anti-cheats have done to catch cheaters are actually starting to harm everyone else to an almost equal degree to the cheats themselves
Linux also as a gaming platform is here to stay, as the likes of Steam Deck shows, and this AC dilemma will be eventually sorted out, server side or something else. Valve has already started to work on this issue and they have the power and resources to do much.
@@Vvariete Yeh, I agree. People forget that online games are one thing, but they forget that there are also single player games. A lot of people also like to go back to the past, and play games from their childhood. Apart from PC games, many people also play console games, especially those who want to revisit their childhood memories.
A lot of people also think that this is the end of gaming on Linux because they can't play Apex lol. Gaming on Linux won't go anywhere, Valve has shown so far that it is the only company out of several that treats its customers much better. It may not be perfect, but it has contributed significantly to the development of Linux, and it will definitely continue this trend.
It's also time for people to start taking matters into their own hands, and start avoiding, boycotting shitty companies. Showing them what they think about their anti-consumer activities. In short, don't buy shitty products from shitty publishers, and write appropriate comments on their social profiles.
What my dad (someone who's generally really really into linux and programming) said is that we would need a company, probably valve, do develop a kernel that uses the tpm Module to validate itself, because this can't be emulated by kernel hacks
Ubuntu comes with a signed kernel, which means that you can detect if a module wasn't provided by Canonical, AMD, etc, therefore, you can harden security by activating SecureBoot, Control-Flow Integrity (which is included starting from Kernel 6.10), etc. Game devs, or maybe Valve, should start to require that kind of stuff to be activated for some titles. There are ways to make things secure as in Windows. BTW, in Windows, users can also disable all security features.
on cs2 I've seen people say something on my squad like " im gonna turn on the cheat so we win" or "the enemy team is cheating so im gonna cheat too"and suddenly they are the best gamers I've seen in my life , i laugh at this kind of behavior because they're just angry that their skill , if the enemy team is cheating, your not helping with cheating too , if you're trash at the game, well you might as well get tf out of the game so other people play
Funny is that a lot of times the other team wasn't even cheating
@@vilian9185 lmao exactly bro! most of the times they are just playing good, not cheating
but in cs2 you get punished if you quit the game, which is even more insulting
I'm fine with keeping all competitive multiplayer games off linux until anti-cheat programs has proper solutions for the linux space.
Hello, thank you for the informative video! I had no idea about that. I've been a Linux user for over 10 years and it saddens me to see us losing games on Linux due to cheaters.
I know my suggestion might sound crazy, but I believe game companies should collaborate with law enforcement. Even with a VPN, the police can still trace identities. My idea is that if someone is caught cheating, they shouldn't just be banned or hardware banned-they should face legal consequences as well. For instance, paying a fine of 2000 euros for cheating. It's like a cyber crime, ruining companies' games and people's fun. Additionally, they should force you to use a phone number in each game you play to help verify identities and deter cheaters. This could help reduce the number of cheaters in games.
This is definitely a radical approach, but I understand. I am also of the opinion not to restrict people's freedom, but to severely punish the abuse of freedom to the detriment of others.
@@mikoajneronowicz582 Your freedom end where mine start. If i want to play a game that is backup by a company that profits with me(and all other users) and X person cheates, it's harming my experience, other players experience and the company.
It's like using substances do enchance atlethic perfomance, it's not just wrong it's forbbiden.
@@mikoajneronowicz582 Thank you for your reply, I appreciate your perspective. Finding the right balance between freedom and accountability is important. Severe consequences for cheaters could help protect the integrity of our gaming experiences. 😊
The problem with that approach is that if someone hacks into my account they pretty much have all my info and could dox me. I think getting doxed will be much higher of a risk than removing a few cheaters
@@crashniels Thanks for raising that point. Gaming companies prioritize keeping user data secure, and using authenticators and being cautious about apps can further protect your information.
Imaging banning a whole operating system due to its APIs being so far superior to Windows that creating cheats is much simpler.
When making multiplayer games i always heard that you should never trust the client and that the server should analize movement and everything the player does and verify if its possible and it actually worked pretty good but yes then the companies would need to upgrade their servers by a little bit more resources like ram and cpu. Let's say cs2 the server takes almost no resources it's super light because their is no server side anticheat, theoreticly they could pay a little bit more for servers and they would have less cheaters and they wouldn't need to pay high costs of developing an client side anticheat or buying one but yes then you actually need to have people who can program really good and have basic knowledge of networking and binary. And when you are scared of the costs of servers you don't need to be it's actually cheaper if you buy the server and not rent it from some hosting provider in long run.
The nature of cheating is exactly the same in both Windows and Linux, so it's not easier or harder in one or another. There might be tools available for one or the other, or both, that will make it easier or harder. But they will essentially do the exact same. In fact I'd say sometimes it's actually a bit harder (in general, not talking about Apex specifically) on Linux due to things like address space randomization, but for things like crafting custom network packets or server exploits, it's the exact same thing since it involves the network, not your system. Not to mention that there are other ways to use "external" cheats like modified controllers or even on-board memory readers. it's a myth to say that "it's easier on Linux because it's Open Source" or any BS like that. If anything, Windows Defender might flag your cheats as malware. But you can easily bypass that by making an exception or just disabling defender.
Being able to change your current hardware id is the most important thing. Maybe they will 'mark' the pc based on the specs it has??
Shhhh silence, my favourite Telenovela has started.
I wonder what anticheats do on linux? Do they ensure secure boot is enabled and do they make sure kernel modules have valid signatures. Do the anticheats attempt to enforce kernels on a Linux Machines to have certain security features enabled.
> Do they ensure secure boot is enabled
They cannot, because you can edit kernel source to always return true to that syscall request.
> do they make sure kernel modules have valid signatures
They cannot, because also here the kernel can be made lying about those signatures.
> Do the anticheats attempt to enforce kernels on a Linux Machines to have certain security features enabled.
Pointless because also here, they cannot trust the kernel as anyone can just git pull the kernel source and edit all the syscalls that the anti-cheat is doing.
@@zocker1600 what about firmware based security?
@@local_communist Physical cheats exist sadly. Like actual robot looking at the screen with a camera, moving a real mouse around :P
If we go far enough this path, we end with the need to learn telepathy.
But people have made progress with server-side anti-cheat. Or at least detection. Good examples are Valve's Overwatch system (which I have no idea if it is still in use!) and MegaScatterBomb's database!
@@1KiloDepartment I am aware but if anticheats checked these things on linux it would reduce the amount of safe free cheats which actually might be a bad thing because paid cheats exist because a market is created by the knowledge required in creating these cheats. So these cheats are guaranteed to exist and be much more advanced and harder to detect. FOSS cheats can easily be analyzed to be made easy to detect/prevent server-side.
I agree server anticheats are the away forward. Client-side anticheat is just being lazy. Cheats will always exist in very powerful ways if you give the client all the power but with server-side anti-cheat it severely limits what cheats can do.
Minecraft is a good example of this. Some of the best anticheats on Minecraft are really good it doesn't stop cheating but it limits how powerful you can be.
@@local_communist that is what Valorant and Microsoft are doing with enforcing TPMv2 and Secure Boot.
I dont think that will be accepted by Linux users though.
4 minutes into the video and we haven't even gotten to the point of what it's about, yet. Even after skipping ahead several times I just gave up.
Things which did not surprise me at all without knowing for sure:
- Cheating is extremely easy.
- Cheating on Linux is as easy.
- Cheats are freely available, even open-source
- Many cheaters come from Windows to Linux to cheat
- Hardware IDs can be spoofed
Solution to this problem:
- Developers need to understand that client-side anticheat is a stupid idea.
- Developers need to implement a proper mechanism to ban users (not accounts, not hardware - users)
- Developers need to implement a mechanism to verify cheaters in a game without running specific software on the cheating client
That's it. Such a solution would work across the board on every platform.
@thejackimonster9689 nope... many cheaters are not coming from windows to Linux. If that were in anyway true, Linux would have more than 2% market share.
My guy you are a genius, can you work on the solutions please? Its always so easy to name the solution but do you know how much time, money and effort it will cost? Waiting for you to solve all the problems, chad, lets go
@@VektrumSimulacrum Nope: 4.35% share right now, though probably doesn't matter much, as this increase happened after Windows 11, along with Mac OS's increase :P
@@sperrex465 It's not really as difficult. Implement a replay system for players to validate whether other people cheat or not. Combine it with a community tribunal. Then bind accounts to personal identities via social ID or similar (most important is the attribute that it can't easily be spoofed or people can have multiple).
There you go. All of these components exist in some form already. Even though most games tend to link phone numbers or credit card information to peoples accounts. That however wouldn't work since people could have multiple phone numbers and it's pretty easy to use virtual credit cards.
@@VektrumSimulacrum If people wouldn't come from Windows, why would they discuss about which Linux distribution is best for gaming? No long term Linux user would do something like that since they would know, distros really don't matter in that regard.
The problem is that with anticheat, it's a common cat and mouse game. We cannot simply pin it on the ease of use on Linux (and to be honest, it is super easy to do so because there's nothing stopping you between the client and server), and opening another vector for attack (Linux, EAC for example) can be a cause for cheaters to migrate. It's sadly a headache for everyone, not just Windows or Linux users, and the tribalism is really petty and silly.
Anticheat cannot simply just be left to EAC heuristics, there has to be someone in the middle to catch issues in the Risk Department and Offensive Security. Considering this, EA probably decided that it's not worth the manpower to use EAC on Linux, and decided to disable EAC there, preventing the legitimate players from playing there. It's a sacrifice, and cheaters ruin everything for legitimate players, Linux or Windows otherwise.
The fact that the cheats were open sourced should have been an indication to EA that they should have patched those holes up, and mass banned whenever possible. It's unfortunate that Linux was affected by this, but with cheating being so prevalent in the esports community, any vector of attack will be used if there's an opportunity.
Cheaters are the poison to promote Linux switching for someone who wants to use a computer for many purposes and gaming, or just for gaming. Because of them, editors close the access to their games to Linux, and the efforts made by Valve seemed to be put to the trash. Hopefully, companies will find solutions, whether it's anticheat or OS editor, kernel maintainer, or any geek out there ...
Hah yes.
The platform they always talks about being irrelevant among the userbase,
Is suddenly the platform responsible for the most cheaters.
Makes mathematical sense, alright.
When you buy a game, you must be able to play it on Console, Windows, Linux or Mac. At least that's how it should be. Cheating makes absolutely no sense to me.
Disagree with the console one, as a lot of games would have to be watered down a LOT for that to work.
@@Akronymus_ I just ment in principle. I don't own a console. 🙂
Hardware spoofing can be done in Windows, which is also completely ineffective in Windows. Open source vs closed source doesn't matter. Both Linux and Windows cheats are following the same path to break into the game memory state and changing it. This comes down to "We don't want to deal with Linux cheaters, just Windows ones". Linux gamer base is not big enough for the game corps to care about, sadly.
The solution is server-side anticheat. Client-side anticheat is inherently flawed.
I don't understand why these companies are so stubborn and insist on continuing to do things this way.
The consoles must have server side anticheat surely?
No it is not a solution, because it cannot prevent cheat like wallhacks. A server has no way to find out that a client is able to see through walls, because all the packages coming from the client are legitimate.
And in case you did not know: most games already have server-side anti-cheat, but all the kernel level stuff got introduced, because server-side it is not enough. So arguing that it is the solution is ironic.
@@robertjames4908 Most games on PC also use server-side anti-cheat. The reason why cheating on consoles is so hard is because the hardware and software they run is completely locked down. You first have to hack the console via some security hole to even get access to the hardware in the first place and then you need so start finding a way to manipulate the game itself.
@@zocker1600 Back to admin servers where people got banned good and proper. AI could do this on the server side....If you appear to be cheating you get kicked....
@@robertjames4908 well except that a ban vor kick has no consequence because one can just generate a new Hardware ID....
I believe we should put a huge focus on AI anti-cheats I don't mind AI watching my gameplay whenever someone reports me for cheating while yes ai has banned me once for 24h on CS2(high sensitivity). I believe this could be a step in the right direction but obviously more money and development has to be put into a such solution this bundled with some basic form of an anti-cheat like VAC and we have got ourselves a good non invasive way of detecting cheaters while also not compromising the users privacy.
Honestly Valve creating a new competitive shooter game in order to create a new standards for dealing with cheaters and show the video game industry how its done is smart
Question what ca we do about it this is bad if this continues we won't be play any games from windows on Linux and it hurts us.
The more there are open source cheating code, the better Valve or editors will find ways to counter/overcome these cheats.
So if the anti-cheat isn't that intrusive on Linux that could be why Apex runs smoother on Linux...
I didn't knew it was this easy to wipe like hardware id... I expect it to be easy to find free cheats but the hardware wipe stuff explains a lot why they just keep coming back, that's totally justified, I am hoping this solves the problem...
cheating is for losers, using an os just to cheat is next level brain damage
I hardly doubt that cheaters are instaling another OS just to cheat.
@@Wkaelx Why you think that? I would assume they do.
Specially the ones that got no money to pay for cheats.
@@MauricioPaim It's way easier to spend some bucks into buying a cheat, that can be found from a range of 10~30 bucks, than installing a whole another OS, formating your drive, learning the basics of Linux, etc...
@@Wkaelx it's easier if you are willing to spend money
@@ShidNoh and if you're an adult. But If a kid downloads linux to cheat in a video game then good on them for at least ditching windows and learning something new
It's not that Devs aren't doing their jobs it's just the nature of business to take the easy way out, I've seen it endless times. Especially if they have "incentive. Cheaters are a sad group and I actually feel sorry for them.
as a tarkov player, I can tell you, everyone that's cheating in that game is on windows... cheat developers need to make money so they develop these things FOR windows........
One point i don't understand (i don't play multi) : you start a game with a cheat mode, you kill every one, you hit with any bullet on every target, you do max score and so on ... and NO ONE on server side notices about it ??? Who manages servers ??? Developers are stuck with "Our Super Anti-Cheat" concept, but it doesn't work : cheaters were on Windows, and they are now on Linux.
it doesn't work like that...
Every cheater that just trys to look legit will not be banned
Server side stuff will only fix some exploits but thats it nothing more
Regardless whether Microsoft lobbies against Linux in online games, they are threatened by the expanse of Valve-Steam and thus Linux. This is a huge win for them.
Lmao jeez I swear us Linux users really spin some dumb narratives. MS is our Boogeyman huh?
At this point I wouldnt mind a kernel anticheat module. DKMS could probably easily put it in all kernels. Though even kernel anticheat can be bypassed.
Kernel anticheat just needs to go. It seeks an impossible goal to prevent cheating, it predictably fails at this, and it throws all user privacy and security out the window in the process. Valve recognizes it. Linux devs recognize it. This is why they won't do it.
Honestly, games that ship this malware are not even worth playing.
I really don't care. I don't play games that require anti cheat software. These game creators create a house of cards and then complain when people cheat. Demand full access to your system to protect their house of cards. The reality is the anticheat isn't stopping anybody. Not on Linux and certainly not on Windows. The anticheat only keeps the honest people honest, that's it. The whole Apex Legend Linux debacle is just shining a light on how weak the house of cards really is and that pisses off EA. I think it's a good thing. Now EA and all the other publishers can go forward and rethink their approach to anti cheat and the design of their games. I'm sure we will get better games in the future because of it.
You mean we won't get any games at all.
@@Umbralogy I've been gaming on Linux for 20+ years. There are always games to play.
@@lloydbond13 ok that's great for you, but there are others who only play games that require anti cheat and those are the people we need converting to Linux.
@@Umbralogy Then play the games with AntiCheat that play. Voting with your feet and your dollars is the only way to get these developers to make any meaningful change.
@@lloydbond13 yeah like that's worked so well for us so far. You're part of the problem.
Thank you, this video made my day better 😁
If it's so easy then a simple cost benefit analysis would have been all that's required to make the decision to yeet the games Linux support. The cost and time required to secure the game on Linux and add in the lack of customers using the game on Linux... it wouldn't make sense to invest further into Linux. Sony made the same decision with the PS3 when they yeeted Linux support.
IMO Valve need to develop the Linux anti-cheat and have it work in proton. I would trust a kernel level anti-cheat from valve that was maybe a DKMS kernel module and they should just make it where its ONLY loaded when playing multiplayer games
if only there would be a solution.... oh wait there is, server level anticheat but the chance of this happening ever is less than 1 percent
the funniest thing is most of popular engines already have server authority network model, so implementing such anticheats wouldn't be a problem. for example a single basic ray casting to check visibility on server alrady would cut 99% of wallhack usability.
the second problem is game design. weapons should avoid using hitscan, with slow projectiles (like rockets in rocket launchers), aimbots are almost useless, unless they can do leading prediction and you move in straight predictable line.
No it is not a solution, because it cannot prevent cheat like wallhacks. A server has no way to find out that a client is able to see through walls, because all the packages coming from the client are legitimate.
And in case you did not know: most games already have server-side anti-cheat, but all the kernel level stuff got introduced, because server-side it is not enough. So arguing that it is the solution is ironic.
@@hoyteternal > for example a single basic ray casting to check visibility on server alrady would cut 99% of wallhack usability
No it would not, because if the server sends the position of the player behind the wall to the client, the client can see it with a wallhack.
If the server does not send the position, you will have an unplayable game, because the latency is too high for FPS games, causing players to pop out of nowhere when running around a corner.
Slower paced games like World of Tanks already use that model and it works great, but it is unworkable for FPS games.
> with slow projectiles (like rockets in rocket launchers), aimbots are almost useless
True, although very obvious aimbots are already quite easy to detect server side and by analyzing aim movement.
How do you detect a trigger bot on a server? How do you do hardware bans on the server?
@@zocker1600 Having them show up for the client as they're just about to become visible is still a lot better than having them always visible from halfway across the map, throuhg 20 walls
If a cheat source is open, doesn't it make it easier to mitigate exploits that it uses?
Future: The next anti-cheat should be an AI anti-cheat on server side.
I think there is a lot of things that you can check easy on server side now.
I think the problem is the big compagnies don't even understand the engine they use and the server side of things.
@@guillaumehuardhughes or instead of putting AI in another place it doesn’t belong, we do what every single secure networked program does and DONT TRUST THE CLIENT.
If enemies are out of sight or should be out of sight from the player, DONT RENDER THEM UNTIL THE VERY LAST SECOND.
If the player has consistently been moving faster than expected boot them from the game,
Have human moderators and community servers, stop with this matchmaking slop.
Expect the clients hardware, operating system, and client are all attackers trying to cheat. If you have to trust any one of these things, you are a bad anticheat.
Triple A game devs make hundreds of millions of dollars. Surely they can hire 50 people for 16 dollars an hour to go over reported games and watch replays.
the cheating process is the same on windows, unless a game has kernel level anticheat. of course cheating is bad, although I don't think just anticheat will help enough. only prosecution of cheat developers and cheaters will help. this is just another form of public disorder. cheating in games is not different to some drunkard yelling and banging against a window of a restaurant you with your friends chilling in. only law enforcement will punish such misbehaviour adequately
wow i was not expecting the cheat to run on ubuntu.
Très honnête et très sain de ta part!
(Game) Companies want to have control over the systems of their users. Preventing cheating is only the secondary goal. If it was the main goal, game companies would do cheating prevention on the systems they actually control, the servers.
But that would cost money to operate and not give them control over their costumes hardware.
Dear cheaters you can use Microsoft's software called Hyper-V
Make EA force Wincels to use secure boot and no virtualization on their PCs, like Riot did.
uhh hyper-v would prevent the cheat from accessing the game. This is a win for windows...
I remember back in the late 1990s this 2d space MMO SubSpace I use to play, there was a cheat engine or one called twister, the developer made a protection in the game protocal to stop it for a client he made. Ya, I despize cheaters too, then there is lag too. Tough cause in this game when you duel, those kill bullets really suck when lag or cheats ruin it, especially if you are dueling a real tough opponent. Like you say real piece of trash, no skills so just cheat, so lame.
The solution is simple: actually trying to solve cheating -> server-side anti-cheat
@2:08 preach, a1rm4x
I'll just leave this here in the case of Apex Legends: that game has always had cheaters from its launch, way before Proton was even a viable thing. So for EA to then years later remove Linux support out of fear of cheaters is highly disingenuous and only reduces their playerbase.
Unfortunately EA/Apex likely will still survive because the audience of Linux users is low, but that also makes it tragically funny in a way: EA pulling the plug on Linux support when there are likely lesser players on such an OS to begin with shows a competency problem on their part if they are more afraid of players that were only introduced access to the game years after launch where it already faced rampant cheating problems, rather than idk thinking more about why they have been recurring when Apex was on Windows this whole time.
I have always wanted to have cheats in single player as I'm not skilled enough to end the games. But, for multiplayer and online gaming, i don't understand the necessity to cheat. It's a non sense, as the opponents are human, not a program. If humans are more skilled than one self, the guy should connect to another server/room where there are people of his level. Or, the gaming editors should let the users connect to different servers depending on their levels, but it should avoid letting skilled people play with beginners and disable connections to rooms in which the level difference is too high.
So, help me get this... There is 5 open-source cheat tools, that the company could study fix the vulnerabilities, but this is a Linux problem?
Yeah, right...
Cheaters on Linux are ruining things for other Linux users that don't cheat because these companies aren't going to make any efforts to support Linux any time soon if they did before, I believe Valve though or other publishers that support Linux need to force these devs to provide Linux support for anticheat or they cannot publish on steam..but thats my pipe dream. The excuse by the devs about cheaters on Linux is that the cheating is "harder to detect" ..which sounds like a cop-out...
Virtual machines?
Integrity checks?
Proton?
Surely the game could check for changes and revert them?
Could proton/windows virtual machines be used to limit Linux specific attacks?
The answer is no, and that really shouldn't be possible either.
The moment you limit what you can do on a linux machine, you take away ownership of that machine, the whole reason most people started using linux in the first place.
So no I would not want to see kernel level anticheat on linux, nor janky client anticheat systems that can you can just bypass if you want.
Every single thing you could do for those things is to the detriment of the user experience.
Games should just do the proper thing and validate input on the server, and do anticheat things there.
The idea that the client input can be trusted at all is dumb, even with client side anticheat.
@@celdaemonWhy is vac so shit
> Surely the game could check for changes and revert them
How is it supposed to do that? The game relies on kernel syscalls to get that information, all of which can be easily manipulated by changing the kernel source code.
@@celdaemon > Games should just do the proper thing and validate input on the server, and do anticheat things there
This is already done in most games, but it is not enough, because you cannot detect wallhacks that way, since all the packages by the client are legitimate.
At no point in time does the cheat manipulate packages sent to the server.
Couldn't developers look at what client side variables are being changed? Then verify those files are unchanged when joining a server?
1:51 I do :) And I have fun. I made a bot script for Roblox and tested it on a literal baseplate, it was fun :)
Also, fun fact, you have to do it anyways in order to prevent it. It's like asking how to prevent something when you know nothing about that something. You NEED to TEST or EXPERIMENT.
Anyways,
2:07 It takes way more skill to make these things than to just run them 💀
2:09 I have way more satisfaction when I make it myself.
2:13 I mean if you code them yourself, it's basically the same as playing the game a lot. You have a skill and use it in the game. Yes it is a different kind of skill, but a skill whatsoever.
Cheating in video game is not a skill... Just saying.
@ardwetha Loser detected
@A1RM4X Trust me it is. You need different skills to achieve your goals. If you are good at it you can also build a career as a malware analyst from it, so yes it takes quite a lot of skill to create cheats.
@@ardwetha this cheater broke the experience of thousands of Linux gamer to achieve nothing... Sad reality.
@A1RM4X oh it's all because of cheaters? Maybe they should start banning windows next. For real though, you can really feel the incompetence on their side. Yes it might be easier to cheat on Linux but let's face it, if they would focus more on getting shit done instead of banning platforms for near to no reasons, they wouldn't have those problems. Server sided detections and checks are a thing and valve proved that you can ship a game without an intrusive AC. Counter Strike 2 was infested with cheaters and they managed to ban quite a lot of them. Of course there are still cheaters and there will be forever, but they did a good job and nearly all rage features get you banned nowadays.
If most of the cheats are open-source, it should also be easy for Apex devs to hinder that, right?
doesn't help if the cheats are run via sudo making it not possible for EAC to detect them
You can do all the things you talked about on Windows as well.
There will always be cheaters in any game. Hacking and breaking into programs is the fun part for many hackers. Linux has a very small personal desktop computing market share. However a big portion of these users are high level users who like to tinker with software and hardware. So its not surprising that Linux game hacking is easier. The very open source hacking culture gets into free hacking software as well. Linux is like the development board, which is open and easy to tinker with and windows is like a commercial laptop or phone which is locked down and you need to pay for higher level access and features. Windows cheaters usually pay for cheats while linux seems to be the open beta testing for these cheats before being deployed for paying customers.
I get it, but what's the point of anti-cheat then? It doesn't matter if it's easy to cheat on linux if the anti-cheat can discover and shut it down. Also, I stopped play online games a long time ago. Probably only play about two and that's barely.
I personally don't care losing a few money-grabbing games.
Damm... I didn't think this bad for their to remove from linux OS. It mean the main game engine have easy be hacked. Another thing is that those game have been leak to src code to able to cheat if they ref the data. To create anti-cheat on Linux is not simple task. Since it has they have no / kernel access I think since user have free range to custom their hardware and sandbox as well. While the window is strict but flaw as well.
The cheats on the AUR is scary as hell. I know its not moderated. But we cannot scream out loud if something like this exists. Installing something from the AUR and lookig for something on the AUR is easier and sometimes safer than lookig on shady sites and run a shady exe on windows.
Err, idk man, it's a binary in the end, they could be harvesting you with root access and you would never know
The AUR is moderated, search "Moderator role for the AUR" Antiz is one of them.
If I had to take a shot, I'd say that the number of cheaters on windows is at least 10x of the people looking for cheats in the AUR. Even in the linux ecosystem the number of users on arch is pretty small, yet you don't see them blocking windows users, that's why blocking linux users is such a dumb thing.
Yeah…. Given there are more cheaters than there are Linux users worldwide, I don’t think Linux is the problem herr
its not only Linux but also on windows in apex same on ps5 and xbox
> The first solution that comes to my mind is server-side cheat detection systems.
< But this is much harder to do. Let's just ban Linux from gaming. Who cares?
the guy cheating on footage is cheating on mixtape modes
oh my god
Until everyone, and I mean everyone, quits supporting extortion products (Live Service Games) this problem will never be solved.
Linux has never been the problem. The Devs and Publishers doing the bare minimum to protect their product in exchange for massive returns on MTX are the problem. These are the real Cheaters; siphoning away every element of joy from the games they create in exchange for your credit card info.
Banning Linux is dumb. Fix the cheats!
@@Bedtimel3ear how
That's the way we are. We fix the consequence, not the problem.
Exactly. It is good that this is on the table now and even Valve is starting to take action. Apex Legends has been review bommed btw..
@@End0fst0ry what are you suggesting to fix the problem?
I love how ppl in this comment section act like the developers of EAC are dumb and it would be very easy to fix.
this sucks and i dont like cheaters too im shocked how easy it is but that dosnt mean to ban linux they should work with linux devs for as solution
what do you mean by working with linux devs kernel anticheat is literally not possible on linux anyway there is already better way get rid off cheaters that doesnt require kernel ac and that is server side anticheat but that is a BIG nono because $$$
@@cbcml42of course it's possible, they are just too lazy to develop for it
@cbcml42 to come up with another option other than kernel level
The reality is valve wont do anything, if they could and wanted to they would have already.
In reality its expensive to fix, and many companies wont go along as valve is a competitor and really the only solution is make a signed and validated kernel module with hooks into user space.
The solution is easy and even Riot mentioned it - theyd activate their anticheat on linux if Linux had a signed and verified kernel that could call to userspace and thats locked down
Holy moly ground breaking news
EA is a company known for selling gambling-style card packs to kids, which has hurt their reputation significantly. On top of that, they seem to operate as a puppet for Microsoft. That’s why games like FIFA aren’t available on Linux - Microsoft doesn’t want people to play it on devices like the Steam Deck, and it's so obvious that even someone blind to the industry could see it. EA’s motives aren’t about fair gameplay or managing cheaters; instead, they focus on finding out what players are willing to pay for.
They restrict access to Linux because they’re worried the Linux community will call out their issues publicly in UA-cam videos and on social media, making people think EA is addressing cheating issues. However, this is just a smoke screen - they haven’t actually resolved the root problems in Apex Legends or any other games. Banned users make up a large portion of Apex Legends' peak player base, showing that their solutions are far from effective.
Please keep this in mind when making your videos, as supporting EA can indirectly harm the Linux community and even companies like Valve. It’s evident that EA has been against Linux from the beginning and will continue to work against our community. Let’s focus on holding EA accountable for these issues, not just on the developers or cheaters. The real problem lies with EA’s practices, like targeting kids with gambling elements, which need to change.
The Cheating software is open source, making it super easy for EA to defeat since they know exactly how it hooks into the game, instead they use the nuclear option and destroy the entire linux support, lmao
I dont think that this is a problem with linux but rather a problem with the developers of Apex Legends not supporting the Linux architecture. Apex Legend doesn't run natively on Linux but instead runs through Proton to work with linux. And this is what people abuse. If this stupid developers ever had a true native Linux port then this might be a different story. But since the developers of Apex Legends are stupidly greedy to not build a native port, it make a pool of problem for them. And these devs hate linux as far as we know. I just do wish Steam ban all their games.
it should available for every one who pays for the game including the cheaters?// No game company dedicated to paying customer. if he pays . let em cheat !!
What valve did is sjowing arrogant bullshit
Why in the name of Gabe Newell some one is so evil he is willing to do all this for free in Linux 🤡
this is the frenchest french person i have ever seen
Fun fact: nobody bans Windows due to cheating 😅
sad for EAC developer
I mean, I guess this is news for you but open source cheats are as old as time, and I don't mean Linux cheats, wow bots, hacks etc is just normal, but the fact that the cheats are out there for everybody to see and they still can't do anything about it when they have the source code at their disposal it's the problem, and no, Linux is not making it easier, the EAC is making it easier by being useless
hohn hohn hohn baguette!