Crazy Nate Lol, soo many chicks like that at Embry Riddle's main campus. Not soo much in the Worldwide campuses in the barracks of bases. Hence the main Embry campus are for noobs. If you legit about aircraft, go for the knowledge in the classroom instead of paying for the "extras" 😉
Youdate LeGit. Like it seems like a major plot to make you forget to fly and go back to them for more "lessons". Hence as an aviator, id wife a female doctor, but in no way will I get services from a random female doc if I am on the final golden hour of survival.
Harris Naseem women have become some of the best product pushers. My dentist was trying to sell me a 39 dollar electric tooth brush for 140 dollars. Men will screw you too women just look a lot prettier doing it. My advice it might be time to bail out. Or just simply not buy mu ch of anything anymore. Luckily i flew twenty hears ago when flying was 20 bucks an hour with fuel I got my fill. It would be nice but 150 an hour you wont have money very long. Today its not affordable unless you dont mind swiping all your credit cards at once. And im hardly poor.
Another tip: Be very wary of a flight school that tries to make you pay everything up front, maybe in return for a discount on flight time. They may be in financial difficulties and one day you’ll turn up for your lesson and find the school closed and your money gone.
Case in point.. Likely the biggest aviation scam ever - Silver State Helicopters - One of Many articles - www.rotorandwing.com/2009/03/01/silver-state-helicopters-what-really-happened/ If you happen to notice an R-22 or R-44 with the last 2 characters of the N# as being "Nxxx SH - that was a former school machine. Thousands of pilots got burned. He shut it down under the cloak of darkness on the evening of the SuperBowl. He disappeared from the planet only to be found later as a Cop for an Native American Reservation in NV, if memory serves me well. The greatest STING was financing IN FULL before taking the first flight. It later came out he had a vested interest he was behind the financing as well. A crook lower on the scale of bottom feeding than the depths of an ocean.
My advice the same.....DO NOT drop $20K+ up front to a flight school that requires up front payment for the program they are offering. Even long time flight schools have gone bankrupt leaving dozens of students high and dry with no recourse to recover their training investment. This horror story has been repeated WAY too many times in the past.
Honestly there are other ways to get hours and certifications that isn't through a flight school. It might require more work but its less money and less of a chance to get screwed. Flight schools are a good option for the right people.
J. Smart Finding instructors that will instruct those things in your own plane until you have to rent for a certification such as a twin engine. A used Piper 140 is 20k and 180s are around 30-60k depending, about as much as a new car. Going this route wouldnt be all that bad if you wanted to work and get trained so you wouldn’t go into debt. I also love the thought of getting a BS in engineering then becoming a pilot
Threw my dream career away by falling for all of these from a fraudulent school (National Pilot Academy). Over a decade later I'm still paying the loans I lost to them and years of fighting to get it some back. I was over eager and tragically naive. I've not flown since, sadly, though I nearly had my commercial license. Thanks for putting this out there to help others learn what I didn't before it's too late.
Man, they were spot on about the scams. I was a flight instructor many years ago and saw these scams repeatedly at one place I worked at. The one that really stood out was using the “Show Pony” for introductory flights. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with learning to fly on a 30 year old plane, but making someone believe that they can have prime rib for the price of hamburger is unethical. We also had handouts with cost breakdowns based on the absolute bare-bone minimums for hours based on the 30 year old planes, and handed out these to prospective students who just completed their intro flight on the brand new “Show Pony”. I refused to lie and defraud students, which got me in trouble with my Chief Flight Instructor. I left instructing decades ago, sad to see that the old scams still work.
I've been a flight instructor for 20 years...and can fully agree with Nathan and Sarah...there's a lot of schools who are in it for the money. They talk ya into paying up front...and then try very hard to make you quit. Great video guys...keep up the good work!
Very nice video guys! Love to see some real people out here who are not just telling some paradisy expectations. In the end a flight school is a company with a service. It is not a regular ''school' without benefits.
DO NOT drop $20K+ up front to a flight school that requires up front payment for whatever programs they are offering. Even long time flight schools have gone bankrupt leaving dozens of students high and dry with no recourse to recover their training investment. I wouldn’t keep more than $1-2K on account at any school no matter what kind of a bargain they are offering you to pay in advance. If they are advertising that big of a discount to pay in advance there is likely a reason and it is because they are seriously cash strapped. Can they really offer $30k worth of training for $20k??? No way..they are desperate and playing a losing pyramid scheme scam. I had a first officer that had done this. Fortunately he had still managed to make it to an air carrier job at UA but the bad part was he had taken out a $30k loan and the school went belly up leaving him $30k in debt with no pilot training or ratings. He was still paying off the loan. This horror story has been repeated WAY too many times in the past.
Phoenix East Aviation in Florida wanted 60,000 up front. And other small FBO flight programs will just milk you with review over and over. Not tell you what books you need to have to study for the written exam and just drag the shit out for years if they can.
This is why escrow companies were invented. you put the money in the escrow and they dole it out to the school on a pay as you go basis. The school is guarrenteed payment and you get training or the account balance. The escrow gets a small fee (very low single digit percentage or a set fee per year). Used in near every real estate transaction, save for in-family transfers and such, also used for international trade.(US company purchasing goods from Chinese factory and sent via shipping company X with insurance Y, who pays what when and how much trust... escrow) The Paypal-ebay combo works a bit like an escrow as well, holding funds(or controlling account) until package is confirmed delivered by a third party shipper.
My Tech - Thanks, We understand what an escrow company does. Paying a FBO or a flight school is not the same as doing business with a company overseas or anywhere else. Escrow companies are used to insure one gets their money if they send their products or to insure one gets their products if they send the money. An escrow company is not needed when you are there in person to pay and receive your product or service. So if you are flying, you are there in person and can manage your own money, therefore you don't need an escrow company. If you are the flight school, you just don't give lessons if the student doesn't pay. So the school doesn't need an escrow company either.
That's up to you. I would makes sure I was going to a well known and respected school in the industry. It would probably help if you had a BS, and may be required to fly for the majors. Does this school you are talking about offer only associate degrees or do they offer a bachelor degree too? If they don't offer a BS you will need to transfer to another school for that. Find out if you need a degree to do what you want. I would skip the associate and go to a university and finish a BS.
I was victim to #3. The examiner for the flight school I attended was unavailable for my multi-engine checkride, and so we had to fly to another airfield. That examiner found some maintenance logbook discrepancies and refused to go through the checkride. The flight school then pressured me to pay for the flight to the airfield. I only agreed to pay for the fuel (I was already out the money for the checkride since the examiner collected the money and did not return it), and in retrospect I shouldn't have payed even for that. I should add, in another instance of having to fly to a different airfield (for my commercial checkride), I was not charged for the flight TO or FROM the airfield in that instance since the school was supposed to have provided for a local examiner.
Thanks for sharing your story, The Aviation Tutor! That's another great example of a flight school setting common sense aside to make a quick buck... wouldn't it make more sense to keep a student happy by being reasonable and not penalizing YOU for THEIR maintenance shortcuts? It seems to us that your continued business and loyalty would be worth much more in the long run than the fuel for a couple of flights... anyway, thanks for watching and happy flying!
As PIC, you are responsible for ensuring you are flying an airworthy aircraft, including that the maintenance records are compliant (if you can't read them, then ask a truthful A&P or IA, and if you don't know one, maybe you shouldn't be flying). You weren't taught that? A CFI-G warned me of this way before my PP checkride. The owner/operator is legally responsible for maintaining the aircraft. I got a 100% on the knowledge test. I think the DPE was within his rights to keep your money (as distasteful as that is). Your school was a clown show. There are a lot of them.
As a matter of fact I WAS taught that as both pilot and A&P. The other problem of that whole situation was that I did NOT act as the PIC on my way to the testing location (if I had I would have known there was a problem with the autopilot). I was merely a passenger. The discrepancy in question was that the autopilot was inop and not placarded. While you are correct in saying that as PIC it was my responsibility, up to that point I would have no way of knowing that there was a problem with the AP and/or the logbooks until I performed a walk-around, a systems-check or during the flight, and even then a walk-around might not reflect an inop AP. The logbooks did not reflect the status of the AP being INOP so my studies of the aircraft's logbooks the day prior to the checkride yielded no clues nor did it inform me as to any problems with the AP. Therefore I disagree that the examiner was within ANY rights to keep my money. Additionally the school chose to ignore their job which was to make sure that the inop system was placarded and the discrepancy noted in the logbook, since they knew of the failure for several days leading up to the checkride and chose to keep the students uninformed of this. I also regret that every student that flew that aircraft up to that point also chose to ingore it, but that also speaks volumes about the school I attended. BELIEVE ME, if I had flown that aircraft the week prior to the checkride, as PIC and A&P I would have made darn sure the school had done something about it.
@@aviationapprentice Why did you have to pay for anything when you were not PIC . Are you saying the Flight School charged both of you for the flight ,?
You'll save money if you learn at a small airport with no control tower. Waiting to take off and land from a busy airport can be very expensive and totally unnecessary.
Not to mention that larger airports usually cost much more for lessions, in rural NC and MD its usually 140-150 per hour, when I look at international airports its usually 200+ per hour
@@derekisludicrous9203 I guess so, it can get expensive man, some instructors might be worse than others aswell. I would ask around town if you can, look at your options. If your trying to get a PPL make sure you have a lot of money saved. Training may be $10,000+ spending out of pocket within 4 months, and its very variable no set in stone price could be higher
@@derekisludicrous9203 Cool good for you man, if you have the financial support than I would say go for it. But you must know that it is not about the 40 hour minimum, your instructor must think you are ready before you can get your PPL, the average is around 55-70 hours i would say. It can sometimes depend on them especially if they aren't great instructors, but some students actually need more like 80 hours. I recommend making a plan for maybe around 3 months of flying, where you are taking lessons a few times a week, so you retain as much information as possible and just try and get that PPL. If you separate flight training you will lose some familiarity, and will need more hours in total. Are you wanting to fly as a job or just want a license to fly recreationally?
Ask what their policies are on cancellations. If you cancel at some schools they charge you the full cost of the planned flight or partial credit. Our school started charging students for personal cancellations.
Nice Video! very informative. I like the goofy humor too :) keeps it light. my fav quote is 0:39 "students can be severely STALLED" perfect for a flight video!
I think I agree with everything except for the need for many aircraft, many instructors, and in-house maintenance. In rural areas this would mean forget about training, because nobody can afford that when they only have 30 active students or less. The ratio of planes/instructors with number of students is more important, and maintenance doesn't have to be a 7 days a week operation on site to be effective for a small operation. The point about "let me see the schedule" is key though. If you can't book a plane with less than a week notice walk away.
I go to Spartan school of Aeronoctics in Tulsa Oklahoma and I can say if you’re going to do a part 41 school you gotta have the passion for it. The planes are old and going down a lot but the instructors are willing to work with you a lot and are a lot of fun to be around. My personal instructor is only 20 starting the program when he was 18 like myself and is already CFII. So getting through quickly is possible.You have to pass a lot of “stages” before they give you off to the actual check ride. A lot of people drop out because of this. Problems happen and you can get delayed for weeks. That being said that happens anywhere in aviation. Also a lot of students are not prepared for the amount of studying you really gotta do. Though about the planes. We are getting brand new piper archers coming January so everyone here is pretty excited about that. I’m flying a lot and learning a lot. And that’s what I wanted when I came here so I’m not complaining.
Here are a couple more: (a) starting the engine and then doing a bunch of stuff (e.g. tuning the radios/GPS) which could have been done BEFORE cranking the engine thus wasting 10 minutes (~$30) before taxiing. CFIs/flight schools do that since the Hobbs meter (recording the flight time) starts ticking once the engine is running so they can charge you the student (b) flying at a low speed to the practice area. Again Hobbs meter is clicking away and $$$ out of the student's pocket to flight school/CFI.
Hi Douglas! This is also a big one, thank you for commenting! We see other schools unnecessarily burning engine time far too often. Always follow the checklists - you shouldn't be starting the engine the second you get in the aircraft!
Nice job guys. A couple more: 141 vs 61 "advantages", and the need to present training cost vs. salary ratios so they have a reality check before diving into $100k++ student loans.
Thank y'all for the good info you have put out. I always enjoy new videos from US Sport Aircraft when they come out. This is the second one I have seen that y'all have done on scams, and the info is very pertinent. When I started my training at the current flight school I attend, I went in there more prepared and was asking a lot of questions just based on the first video. After this one, I am still pleased with the school as they were completely honest with me. Again, thank you so much for the great videos and information!!!
Hi jaytheseabee! We're glad you enjoy the videos and we're especially glad they helped you when determining your flight school of choice! Stories like yours are exactly why we make these videos. Thanks for watching and best of luck!!!
Those are all valid points in retrospective, but I don't see how a rookie could tell a good school from a bad one BEFORE he's been in. I've had my share with bad and unreputable places and I'm still continuing to do so, because even I don't know the people and the schemes until I've seen them (I have a commercial license which I earned over 9 years on 3 continents). Before you sign, everything seems always perfect. One time I thought I had a good school because they had statements from former students online, all confirming the quality of the place when surprise, they let the unhappy students behind (I would be one of them). I wouldn't trust schools who offer 4-weeks-PPL courses at all (the theory part takes 3 months alone and even with that completed, the timeframe is far too tight) and I agree that you have to check the fleet before you sign (but again, what does a rookie know about aircrafts before he starts flying?) They won't tell you whether they have their instructors on a paycheck or freelancing either and they surely won't tell you anything negative about their own maintenance. MANDATORY paying upfront is a huge red flag as well (they might be in financial trouble and once they close, the money is gone, check the contract for details). Promises regarding expected pilot shortages are shady as well. The only advise I can give is what steveo came up with already: Find something local because in that case you are less dependant on them and I personally had more luck with small schools, because they seemed to show more interest in their students (e.g., a club). Browsing forums like pprune can be helpful indeed as well. Chances might be low but if you are considering training at EFT/Florida, F-AIR /Czech Repub., Uniqueair /South Africa, Flugschule Marl /Germany or Southend Flying Club /UK, feel free to ask me for my opinion for I've been at these places :)
Hi Elija Matt! Great comment, very helpful and informative for future students. You are correct in that a new student will have a harder time to weed out the shadier flight schools since their knowledge in aviation will be limited but hopefully, they'll be able to read about people's experiences such as yours and find a flight school that suits them! Thanks for watching!
I like how y'all play while being serious. I have a few hours in my logbook from high school in the 1970s. Now I have a pilot's bag, an aluminum E6-B9 computer by Aero Products Research Inc, a Sigtronics Gold Wing headset, a Vertex Standard Pilot Air Band handheld transceiver, several books, and the complete King School DVD ground school course. All this is from fifteen years ago when I thought I would fly. It didn't work out at that time. Now the interest has returned. The mortgage and car will be paid off in four and half to five years. If I study the course diligently during that time, I may be able to take lessons, with a possibility of buying an old Cessna 150. One downside is the nearest CFI/school is almost sixty miles away from my small rural town in the South. Thanks for the video and the laughs.
I thought that was the Riddler! I have billions of eyes, yet I live in darkness. I have millions of ears, yet only four lobes. I have no muscle, yet I rule two hemispheres. What am I?
Want to fly cheaper? 1. AVOID flight schools for ground training. If you live in (or near) a reasonably large city, you may find a local community college that gives ground school. They will be way cheaper, like $30-$50 per semester, let you buy your own materials, and often have better teachers in any case. My instructor there was an ex-astronaut. In addition, you will likely find they will hook you up with a free-lance instructor and perhaps even a good deal on an airplane rental as well. Our instructor would invite local free-lance instructors to come and visit the class and offer their services, and we did group airplane block hours. 2. Try a free-lance instructor. Many instructors are happy to instruct outside of an FBO, which lowers their costs since they are not paying the FBO, and thus lower your costs. I even know several instructors who teach at academies, but take freelance on the side. Even if the academies are not aware of it. 3. Join a flight club instead of a FBO or training academy. Lots of airplane owners want to recoup expenses by renting their airplanes while not in use. They join flight clubs as owners. FBOs or academies often also offer this service to owners, but usually it is on terrible terms, shifting most costs to the owner and pocketing most of the students money. Plus owners avoid renting to a training academy because they beat up airplanes. Finally, flight trainer outfits want the owner to reserve most of the airplane's time for their students, meaning the owner has trouble getting time in his own plane. 4. Get as much ground as you can stand before flying. If you haven't read up, you will have the instructor teaching you what you should have known in ground school, and charging you for that time. If you get most of your ground out of the way first, and even preferably pass the FAA written, you are ahead of the game. Take as much flight instruction as you need during this to keep your interests up. 5. Look at your total costs vs. purchasing an airplane. You aren't going to be a pilot in less than 60 hours or so. That's real flight hours, not ground time. Figure about $100/hr for the plane, and that's $6,000 MINIMUM. You might be able to by a beater Cessna 150, fly it to become a pilot, then sell it for about the same money and be out only the maintenance costs. If you go IFR, you can double those figures. You may decide at the end of it you like the cheap airplane and want to keep it, or you might decide you want a de-iced P210. Either way, at that point you will be a pilot and have a basis for a decision. 6. Don't get a whizz-bang plane to take lessons in. Getting a new or near new Cessna 172 with glass cockpit might be cool, but you don't need it to learn flying and it will, in fact, make you a worse pilot, since you won't know how to fly anything but glass airplanes. And that will push up your rental costs by $50 to $100 per hour.
Looks better in your logbook when it comes to chasing the first job to. A charter employer with old C206s isn't going to be impressed with someone bragging about glass cockpit time in a diamond.
gnarkillkicksass, EXACTLY!! For my PPL I trained in an old 1979 C152 with the basic 6-pack and which is pretty "bare bones". While my school does have newer mid-2000 172 SPs and even a couple of newer 172s with the Garmin G1000 full glass cockpits, all of their aircraft, including the older 152s are extremely well taken care of. Now that I have over 110 hours in the 152, I intend to do my instrument training on the G1000 equipped planes. However, I am a firm believer that one *MUST* do their basic training (PPL) in a "bare bones" aircraft to develop good basic flying skills, without all the "automation" distracting you. And for me, of course, the big side benefit was a significant cost savings!
Thank you so much for your video. I will will love to do A private pilot license. Will love to know the cost and the best way to get it. Am staying in South Africa.
I’ve been looking to become a pilot I’m looking into attending ATP FAST TRACK. Are there better more cost efficient ways to become a commercial pilot? Which programs should I also look into??
Hey guys! Thanks for this informative video! I was wondering if you know anything about Epic Flight Academy? I’m an international student. Any tips/advice would be great!
Been there sadly but had the sense to bail out again when but only when my gut instinct was absolutely SCREAMING at me! Moved on to better after doing my homework but the false start I experienced was confidence-bashing and bad for undergoing a rigorously demanding learning experience such as flight training. The first place just did not feel right from the start and had I done my homework before going there / seen this but this was not around for me to learn from back in 1997 I may have experienced a better start to what is still my livelihood. So I condone this 100% as revelation of fact and not just mischievous whistle blowing or scare mongering: Nice work!
Instrument training traps: 1. CFIIs not being experts at the avionics in the training planes. What's the point of flying Archer 100is if the CFIIs don't know how to use the G3X nor the autopilot systems well? 2. If you're training on a TAA, then you are OWED training on using the autopilot, the PFD, the MFD, and the GPS. I failed my IFR on one single item because I never got taught to fly an approach with a miss and a re-approach from the hold point which was at the FAF using the autopilot. I was never taught how to reset the GPS to reshoot the approach. I was never taught what the APR and TO/GA switches did. It caused my to screw up my second approach. 3. Signing you off on IFR ground training that doesn't even cover half of what you need to know to pass the written. Signing off on a check ride when there is clearly a gap in your training. 4. Not keeping a record of the preferences of the various DPEs used by the school. I actually got a DPE that preferred I use an autopilot on approaches. My school had used him multiple times; so they had to have had this info. 5. Long CFII silences or absences. If you're flying with a CFII who says nothing for 20 minutes at a time or is chatting on his phone instead of teaching you the avionics while en route, then you're getting ripped off. 6. The CFII does stuff that he should be teaching you, like working the coms, setting the frequencies, staying ahead of the aircraft, because they want the flight to go faster. I hate that, and it rips me off of experience I need to have.
i love the way you sneak up in the back sometimes! thanks for the information :-) i wanna be a glider Pilot, and in a couple of months i wanna start my flight training. im 13 now, and i wanna start when im 14!
I agree except for the lie that you need late model airplanes. A plane from the 60s flies just as well as a late model plane. One of the scams not included in this list is the scam being implied: that you have to fly a shiny new model plane with a color screen if you want your license to count for something. That is a scam.
Do you guys have any advice for someone getting out of the military looking to join a program that's attached to a university? i was looking into Aeroguard but ive seen so many negative reviews. im not sure what to think anymore but i definitely want to pursue a career as a pilot. Thanks in advance,
Yes, Illinois Aviation Academy is one of those schools you talking about. Piper Aztec N6823Y, the instructor made the student fly with No brakes in the wintertime, students have to pay for a checklist. After each day of ground class instructor makes a student sing a paper so they teach him all ground oral info.
As an instructor I approach number one on this list this way: I let the student do their own math. Here is what I tell prospect students. 1) Here is the cost of the airplane per hour. 2) here is the cost of the instructor per hour. 3) Here is the minimum (dual/solo/total) hours the FAA requires to get done. 4) here is the national average of hours most students ACTUALLY get done. 5) Here are extra expenses beyond the airplane/instructor i.e. I have a minimum pilots supply list.... required books, E6B computer, headsets, etc... I then have an fancy optional list, if the student wants to go the extra mile on purchases. I then explain all the variables that contribute to the national average of hours for completion being higher than the FAA minimum. I NEVER give them a set number of hours for completion. instead I explain to them how its possible to get done near the minimum, but what is actually more realistic for completion. I just tell them the FAA minimum and the national avg. hours. From there the student can figure out what is best for them.
my school was honest just expensive they quoted me at 64 hours to completion for private pilot average. They also said that it’s better to do it in a chunk because it’ll end up costing more in the long run if you spread it out and by instructor made me get a medical right away to make sure his students did not wast money if they cannot qualify fly.
Very good points. I Instructed at both Part 61 and Part 141. If the CFI isn't giving a break down of the FAR hour requirements or the FAR Flight School approved requirements, then that's a red flag. Through these requirements, the CFI should break down the financial, time and realistic goals of the student. The unpredictable variable is the student's progression, where as it's both on the STUDENT and INSTRUCTOR to make progression happen. I see a lot of students blame the CFI for everything. If it's not working out, get a new CFI. It's not going to hurt the CFI's feelings and it's your money/time.
To all aviation fanatics, like to give you short scenario of mine and ask your honest and experienced opinions. I am 50 years old, and due to lack of timing, job, etc. I starred the training urge very late in early 2014. I am from upstate NY, NYC to be exact which you can imagine, closes airfield is 1 hour drive and weather, and restriction on the air fields, my location is not suitable for training. I had my due delegacy research and went down Miami to see the existing training schools in 2015 spring. Needles to say, in 2015 they were charging $160 + 60 for instructor and some of them they even charging with fuel & insurance on top of that. They were the wolf of the aviation, waiting to hunt , from your pocket. I didn't feel comfortable with the schools, I reviewed almost 5 of them. Most desirable one was ATP which they were not allowing part 61 or private pilot training. In that visit to Miami, I passed the 3rd degree medical and got certificate in the time being. Following fall I had 3 heart stance implant which directly pushed back everything on the schedule. But I didn't stop ground study thru sporty and internet sources, I signed up to Aviation seminars weekend ground training school in MD. After the weekend training I took the exam and failed with 68. Until that time I had no flight time. Following spring I made another trip but this time I concentrated on Orlando and vicinity. Prices were anywhere between $150 with no glass cockpit to $185 with GS1000 instructor rates was from $50 to $85 the most. Major airline focused schools was located at Daytona area, I also visited them one by one. I have to admit, as you indicate in your post, they had great adds, mind blowing promising but once you showed up , most of them was totally messed up. I visited Aorism, which out of all the flight schools in the area they have the most fleet with offering only part 141. Next in the list I found out great deal of professionalism was Epic Flight academy which also focused on part 141. Next one on the list was Flight Training professionals which wasn't offering accelerated program, but They got high marks at AOPA school list 2 years in row. Most interesting flight school that I came across was Sun State Aviation. Great building, nice equipment, ands new fleet but milking your pocket attitude. With their rate $228 -with GS1000 cockpit + $79 CFI, they were the most expensive school in that entire Orlando area. That wasn't just the price, they were also forcing the training for you to stay in extended hours for their students which I found out after I had conversation with their 3 active student. Next stop was Tailwheels Etc. flight school which the only one which eagerly offering accelerated training in the area. I contacted with them couldn't even get definite answer to visit their facility neither they had enough plane for the training also their CFI's was on part time bases. After spending thousands $ and time, search was discouraging. I gave one more changes and targeted AOPA listings on 2014 and 2015 of best schools. I found another candidate at Ft Myers, Paragon flight school. They were the only one, didn't ask me upfront payment nor student pre-paid account. Back then they had $150 for the plane & $50 for the instructor. Young crew, and had several AOPA honor list instructors. The conclusion was the final approach for me to review the school. Their down sides, their CFI are very young and they were eagerly jumping to the airline by building hours at the schools. After these search and reviews I went back to NY and signed up accelerated weekend class at American Flyers weekend schools in NJ. Class was great and informative, but you have to study on the side though cannot rely on only their study. They are using experienced and old time pilots that have thousands of hour's experience. My unfortunate path stopped with FAA rejection on my cardiologic test. Then they required more test results such as additional stress test, full medical history etc. The they gave me 3 months to complete. After a year and half I had to stopped by FAA this time. I waited but couldn't take the test, due to unknown future on my flight path. I hope I could get repeat class from them, which I am was told could it be done. I recently passed the medical test which I have valid certificate until 2018 thank god. What happened in the mean time; I reviewed and felt the one thing : without dedicating least a month or so there will be no pilot certificate. Couple hours of flying every here and there, won't give me any boost. I decided to delicate my time and $ to take off from my work and life on up state and move to Florida sun shine state for training. Needles to say, I focused on Paragon flight school and visited them recently. The only change and down side that I noticed was the CFI crew got much younger with less flight hours. This detail made me worry, because young guys mostly focusing on their carrier path more than teaching ability. In the same token, many maneuver or case study is taking place while you and your CFI is on the control rather than playing the scenario with his/ her experience and learning the outcome in details. Learning as you fly , should be your target not your CFI's. The other issue was, I haven't got clear $ estimation nor average time and cost for the solo and the completion of the training from the previous pilots that they got their certificates from the school. But schools have good feedback and reputation and have well maintained fleet. I believe will be good fit. After all this short story of mine, would like to know if anyone out here read this has experience with the school , any suggestion or recommendation on CFI whom they had training previously. Anyone had solo with the school, how many hours it took for them, my main focus and aim is least 2 hours of flight time a day min. Of course depends on the weather. Also any recommendation for the area, airports , cross country flights, in that regards perhaps any lead that you might experienced on your flight training that you may direct/ suggest to newly starters as myself... Thank you ...
I had a good experience at American Flyers. Big school but planes and instructors were available whenever I wanted. A couple of times I complained about a charge, they took it off. I also think it is good advice to get your instrument rating ASAP. If you get in the clouds you will be happy you did!
Daver Son Everything they say does make sense. Translucency in business practices is a great advertising strategy. And probably the most honest one, considering they are showing you all the flaws and lies, and tell you what to look for. Doubt they are what they are describing here. Industry’s everywhere that want you business, especially ones like these are full scams and unhealthy illegal practices. This world is getting worse by the hour.
I experienced 9 out of 10 of these at a crappy flight “school” called ATP. It was literally the worst experience of my life and drove me out of aviation and killed my dream to become an airline pilot. I suffered from depression for years until I got professional help YEARS later. I bombed my first instrument rating check ride not even close. The chief flight instructor ignored my lack of progress and insufficiently handled an issue I had with one of the instructors. NEVER GO TO ATP especially any accelerated flight school
Find an instructor that IS NOT just there to build hours. Start in a tailwheel aircraft off a grass strips if at all possible. Don't bother with glass panel aircraft unless you really want to become an airline pilot. The reality of general aviation for the masses is older steam gauges and older airframes.
My favorite is the looooong circuits I see nowadays; almost out of sight from the airport. I'm not quite sure what's happening during the 7 or 8 minutes per circuit (other than someone's building time). And this is in 150's! (172's are bigger.) Start final 2 miles back, flap down and drag it in, shoot for 1/3 down the runway...I dunno.
Hi Dr Aviation! SolarAbyss is correct - that's a SportCruiser! You can learn more about it here: www.ussportaircraft.com/aircraft/about-the-sportcruiser/ Thanks for watching!
I was seconded from the U.K. to an American flight school affiliated to an American university looking to train international students for European issued certificates. My first surprise was that FAA certified flight instructors were expected to prepare their own lesson plan. All British flight training follows a set syllabus based on the RAF training syllabus. My second surprise was that the average number of hours to solo in America was 25. the average number of hours to solo in Britain was 15. My third surprise was that on obtaining a private certificate an FAA pilot could proceed almost immediately for a Certified flight instructors certificate. Currently in Britain certified flying instructors certificates are not issued before 200 hours of which 150 must be P1. My fourth surprise was that many FAA certified flight instructors appeared to regard their students as a source of income. It appeared perfectly acceptable that if the students flew more hours than they would generate more income. I regarded that to be open to abuse and questionably ethical. Finally I had to adjust to CFI meaning Certified Flight Instructor. Up until this point CFI to me, had always been Chief Flying Instructor. Flight Instructors were FI's. The big problem is that students are not in a position to differentiate between good and bad instructors. Hence my use of the word ethical.
I ran the maintenance at a couple of flight schools for approx a decade. I could make a list a mile long on how students get ripped off. Lol. We referred to new pilots as fresh meat and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Hahahahahaha
For any student pilot watching this, when they went over things a student pilot should buy, I would highly recommend buying and electronic version of the FAR/AIM. 9.99 in the App Store and you always get the new version free every year they release it
Thanks for the kind words, strato172! If you live in the Dallas-Fort Worth area we'd love to have you! If you're already a CFI you can email your resume to nathan@ussportaircraft.com! If you're a commercial pilot looking to become a CFI you can check out our CFI Academy: ua-cam.com/video/6YUVyKMQchk/v-deo.html or if you're not yet a commercial pilot we can get you there too! We’re always looking for skillful, energetic instructors and office staff to add to our team. Our compensation packages are very competitive, with full and part-time opportunities available. Flight instructors at US Sport Flight Academy can instruct various programs in a multitude of aircraft, with opportunities for cross-country aircraft deliveries and earning commission on new students. Thanks for watching!
#1 Scam: Use a pretty girl in the thumbnail... (She is pretty, but just kidding about scamming, thanks for the tips.)
Crazy Nate Lol, soo many chicks like that at Embry Riddle's main campus. Not soo much in the Worldwide campuses in the barracks of bases. Hence the main Embry campus are for noobs. If you legit about aircraft, go for the knowledge in the classroom instead of paying for the "extras" 😉
Youdate LeGit. Like it seems like a major plot to make you forget to fly and go back to them for more "lessons". Hence as an aviator, id wife a female doctor, but in no way will I get services from a random female doc if I am on the final golden hour of survival.
Harris Naseem women have become some of the best product pushers. My dentist was trying to sell me a 39 dollar electric tooth brush for 140 dollars. Men will screw you too women just look a lot prettier doing it. My advice it might be time to bail out. Or just simply not buy mu ch of anything anymore. Luckily i flew twenty hears ago when flying was 20 bucks an hour with fuel I got my fill. It would be nice but 150 an hour you wont have money very long. Today its not affordable unless you dont mind swiping all your credit cards at once. And im hardly poor.
I got scammed to watch this video
@@youdate1377 good lord. Get a life.
My advice is very simple...find a local flight school that is near you with good reviews and isn't expensive. Enjoy every step and have fun!
Make a video about it!
Hello Steveo. How are you doing? Great? Glad to hear!
Gold comment of the week awarded to you Will!
Steveo1Kinevo you the man! Big fan of yours!
Steveo how where did you go for flight training
Another tip: Be very wary of a flight school that tries to make you pay everything up front, maybe in return for a discount on flight time. They may be in financial difficulties and one day you’ll turn up for your lesson and find the school closed and your money gone.
Case in point.. Likely the biggest aviation scam ever - Silver State Helicopters - One of Many articles - www.rotorandwing.com/2009/03/01/silver-state-helicopters-what-really-happened/
If you happen to notice an R-22 or R-44 with the last 2 characters of the N# as being "Nxxx SH - that was a former school machine. Thousands of pilots got burned. He shut it down under the cloak of darkness on the evening of the SuperBowl. He disappeared from the planet only to be found later as a Cop for an Native American Reservation in NV, if memory serves me well. The greatest STING was financing IN FULL before taking the first flight. It later came out he had a vested interest he was behind the financing as well. A crook lower on the scale of bottom feeding than the depths of an ocean.
My advice the same.....DO NOT drop $20K+ up front to a flight school that requires up front payment for the program they are offering. Even long time flight schools have gone bankrupt leaving dozens of students high and dry with no recourse to recover their training investment. This horror story has been repeated WAY too many times in the past.
Honestly there are other ways to get hours and certifications that isn't through a flight school. It might require more work but its less money and less of a chance to get screwed. Flight schools are a good option for the right people.
J. Smart Finding instructors that will instruct those things in your own plane until you have to rent for a certification such as a twin engine. A used Piper 140 is 20k and 180s are around 30-60k depending, about as much as a new car.
Going this route wouldnt be all that bad if you wanted to work and get trained so you wouldn’t go into debt. I also love the thought of getting a BS in engineering then becoming a pilot
It just depends what you want to do and how fast and how much you want to spend, theres benefits to both
Threw my dream career away by falling for all of these from a fraudulent school (National Pilot Academy). Over a decade later I'm still paying the loans I lost to them and years of fighting to get it some back. I was over eager and tragically naive. I've not flown since, sadly, though I nearly had my commercial license.
Thanks for putting this out there to help others learn what I didn't before it's too late.
That must be horrible!
Man, they were spot on about the scams. I was a flight instructor many years ago and saw these scams repeatedly at one place I worked at. The one that really stood out was using the “Show Pony” for introductory flights. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with learning to fly on a 30 year old plane, but making someone believe that they can have prime rib for the price of hamburger is unethical. We also had handouts with cost breakdowns based on the absolute bare-bone minimums for hours based on the 30 year old planes, and handed out these to prospective students who just completed their intro flight on the brand new “Show Pony”. I refused to lie and defraud students, which got me in trouble with my Chief Flight Instructor. I left instructing decades ago, sad to see that the old scams still work.
what school is this
I've been a flight instructor for 20 years...and can fully agree with Nathan and Sarah...there's a lot of schools who are in it for the money. They talk ya into paying up front...and then try very hard to make you quit. Great video guys...keep up the good work!
Southern Eagle Aviation which one is good? My instructor told me to join atp, is that one good?
What is their motive to try to make the student quit?
in it for the money, is there something else?
@@swim2kill Then they won't refund the remaining money.
Do you know aerocadet in Florida
Please do let me know if you know about these college.
sulaimanshanid999@gmail.com
Very nice video guys! Love to see some real people out here who are not just telling some paradisy expectations. In the end a flight school is a company with a service. It is not a regular ''school' without benefits.
True that.. Every one's got to make a living.
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DO NOT drop $20K+ up front to a flight school that requires up front payment for whatever programs they are offering. Even long time flight schools have gone bankrupt leaving dozens of students high and dry with no recourse to recover their training investment. I wouldn’t keep more than $1-2K on account at any school no matter what kind of a bargain they are offering you to pay in advance. If they are advertising that big of a discount to pay in advance there is likely a reason and it is because they are seriously cash strapped. Can they really offer $30k worth of training for $20k??? No way..they are desperate and playing a losing pyramid scheme scam.
I had a first officer that had done this. Fortunately he had still managed to make it to an air carrier job at UA but the bad part was he had taken out a $30k loan and the school went belly up leaving him $30k in debt with no pilot training or ratings. He was still paying off the loan. This horror story has been repeated WAY too many times in the past.
Phoenix East Aviation in Florida wanted 60,000 up front. And other small FBO flight programs will just milk you with review over and over. Not tell you what books you need to have to study for the written exam and just drag the shit out for years if they can.
This is why escrow companies were invented. you put the money in the escrow and they dole it out to the school on a pay as you go basis. The school is guarrenteed payment and you get training or the account balance. The escrow gets a small fee (very low single digit percentage or a set fee per year).
Used in near every real estate transaction, save for in-family transfers and such, also used for international trade.(US company purchasing goods from Chinese factory and sent via shipping company X with insurance Y, who pays what when and how much trust... escrow) The Paypal-ebay combo works a bit like an escrow as well, holding funds(or controlling account) until package is confirmed delivered by a third party shipper.
My Tech - Thanks, We understand what an escrow company does.
Paying a FBO or a flight school is not the same as doing business with a company overseas or anywhere else. Escrow companies are used to insure one gets their money if they send their products or to insure one gets their products if they send the money.
An escrow company is not needed when you are there in person to pay and receive your product or service. So if you are flying, you are there in person and can manage your own money, therefore you don't need an escrow company. If you are the flight school, you just don't give lessons if the student doesn't pay. So the school doesn't need an escrow company either.
K Male K Male, I have a question. Would it be a good idea to go to a program that gives an associates with a commercial license at the end?
That's up to you. I would makes sure I was going to a well known and respected school in the industry. It would probably help if you had a BS, and may be required to fly for the majors. Does this school you are talking about offer only associate degrees or do they offer a bachelor degree too? If they don't offer a BS you will need to transfer to another school for that. Find out if you need a degree to do what you want. I would skip the associate and go to a university and finish a BS.
I was victim to #3. The examiner for the flight school I attended was unavailable for my multi-engine checkride, and so we had to fly to another airfield. That examiner found some maintenance logbook discrepancies and refused to go through the checkride. The flight school then pressured me to pay for the flight to the airfield. I only agreed to pay for the fuel (I was already out the money for the checkride since the examiner collected the money and did not return it), and in retrospect I shouldn't have payed even for that. I should add, in another instance of having to fly to a different airfield (for my commercial checkride), I was not charged for the flight TO or FROM the airfield in that instance since the school was supposed to have provided for a local examiner.
Thanks for sharing your story, The Aviation Tutor! That's another great example of a flight school setting common sense aside to make a quick buck... wouldn't it make more sense to keep a student happy by being reasonable and not penalizing YOU for THEIR maintenance shortcuts? It seems to us that your continued business and loyalty would be worth much more in the long run than the fuel for a couple of flights... anyway, thanks for watching and happy flying!
As PIC, you are responsible for ensuring you are flying an airworthy aircraft, including that the maintenance records are compliant (if you can't read them, then ask a truthful A&P or IA, and if you don't know one, maybe you shouldn't be flying). You weren't taught that? A CFI-G warned me of this way before my PP checkride. The owner/operator is legally responsible for maintaining the aircraft. I got a 100% on the knowledge test.
I think the DPE was within his rights to keep your money (as distasteful as that is). Your school was a clown show. There are a lot of them.
As a matter of fact I WAS taught that as both pilot and A&P.
The other problem of that whole situation was that I did NOT act as the PIC on my way to the testing location (if I had I would have known there was a problem with the autopilot). I was merely a passenger. The discrepancy in question was that the autopilot was inop and not placarded. While you are correct in saying that as PIC it was my responsibility, up to that point I would have no way of knowing that there was a problem with the AP and/or the logbooks until I performed a walk-around, a systems-check or during the flight, and even then a walk-around might not reflect an inop AP. The logbooks did not reflect the status of the AP being INOP so my studies of the aircraft's logbooks the day prior to the checkride yielded no clues nor did it inform me as to any problems with the AP. Therefore I disagree that the examiner was within ANY rights to keep my money.
Additionally the school chose to ignore their job which was to make sure that the inop system was placarded and the discrepancy noted in the logbook, since they knew of the failure for several days leading up to the checkride and chose to keep the students uninformed of this. I also regret that every student that flew that aircraft up to that point also chose to ingore it, but that also speaks volumes about the school I attended. BELIEVE ME, if I had flown that aircraft the week prior to the checkride, as PIC and A&P I would have made darn sure the school had done something about it.
True dat. BTW, are you related to Phil? Jus' sayin'....
@@aviationapprentice Why did you have to pay for anything when you were not PIC . Are you saying the Flight School charged both of you for the flight ,?
No.11 any school that charges all the training up front should raise red flags.
You'll save money if you learn at a small airport with no control tower. Waiting to take off and land from a busy airport can be very expensive and totally unnecessary.
Not to mention that larger airports usually cost much more for lessions, in rural NC and MD its usually 140-150 per hour, when I look at international airports its usually 200+ per hour
@@gamertardguardian1299 is 130 for plane and 40 for instructor a good price??
@@derekisludicrous9203 I guess so, it can get expensive man, some instructors might be worse than others aswell. I would ask around town if you can, look at your options. If your trying to get a PPL make sure you have a lot of money saved. Training may be $10,000+ spending out of pocket within 4 months, and its very variable no set in stone price could be higher
@@gamertardguardian1299 Preciate it man. Just turned 16 and was wanting to get my hours in before the exam at 17
@@derekisludicrous9203 Cool good for you man, if you have the financial support than I would say go for it. But you must know that it is not about the 40 hour minimum, your instructor must think you are ready before you can get your PPL, the average is around 55-70 hours i would say. It can sometimes depend on them especially if they aren't great instructors, but some students actually need more like 80 hours. I recommend making a plan for maybe around 3 months of flying, where you are taking lessons a few times a week, so you retain as much information as possible and just try and get that PPL. If you separate flight training you will lose some familiarity, and will need more hours in total. Are you wanting to fly as a job or just want a license to fly recreationally?
From a personal experience, I can testify you guys have nailed it with those 10 points. Thank you for your tips and guidance.
Thank you for the kind words, Walid! We're glad you enjoyed our video!
I found an instructor who ran his own flight school, worked great for me, he blocked out a month every day for me
Ask what their policies are on cancellations. If you cancel at some schools they charge you the full cost of the planned flight or partial credit. Our school started charging students for personal cancellations.
Nice Video! very informative. I like the goofy humor too :) keeps it light. my fav quote is 0:39 "students can be severely STALLED" perfect for a flight video!
I think I agree with everything except for the need for many aircraft, many instructors, and in-house maintenance. In rural areas this would mean forget about training, because nobody can afford that when they only have 30 active students or less. The ratio of planes/instructors with number of students is more important, and maintenance doesn't have to be a 7 days a week operation on site to be effective for a small operation.
The point about "let me see the schedule" is key though. If you can't book a plane with less than a week notice walk away.
Can you guarantee training with Sarah? Haha
Chris Saunders Thats too low even for a non aviator.
Ok so she's not a flight instructor, can we still train? I'll take up cross fit no probs
+MultiRated Pilot
The intro says she is !
Thank you for the information, would you happen to know a qualified school that meet these requirements in NYC or Long Island, NY area?
I go to Spartan school of Aeronoctics in Tulsa Oklahoma and I can say if you’re going to do a part 41 school you gotta have the passion for it. The planes are old and going down a lot but the instructors are willing to work with you a lot and are a lot of fun to be around. My personal instructor is only 20 starting the program when he was 18 like myself and is already CFII. So getting through quickly is possible.You have to pass a lot of “stages” before they give you off to the actual check ride. A lot of people drop out because of this. Problems happen and you can get delayed for weeks. That being said that happens anywhere in aviation. Also a lot of students are not prepared for the amount of studying you really gotta do. Though about the planes. We are getting brand new piper archers coming January so everyone here is pretty excited about that. I’m flying a lot and learning a lot. And that’s what I wanted when I came here so I’m not complaining.
Thanks for the great tips Nathan and Sarah, p.s. thanks for the ice breaker, looks like you two had some fun making the video...
I felt like I got ripped off by ATP. You rack up the hours quick but the instruction was awful. Beware if you are considering them!
What school would u recommend instead?
Same.
-thank you I was thinking about going through them but saw a ton of red flags
I guess if depends on your instructor/location. My experience with ATP has been very positive thus far.
There have been weeks where I flew every day. But weather can get in the way. The average is 4 or 5 times a week
Fantastic video! so many pitfalls for new aspiring pilots! thank you very helpful
Exceptional video, well done. I LOVE the background 'stuff.'
love it when someone tells you all the secrets in one seating.
The sad thing is that just about every one of these points is true
Here are a couple more: (a) starting the engine and then doing a bunch of stuff (e.g. tuning the radios/GPS) which could have been done BEFORE cranking the engine thus wasting 10 minutes (~$30) before taxiing. CFIs/flight schools do that since the Hobbs meter (recording the flight time) starts ticking once the engine is running so they can charge you the student (b) flying at a low speed to the practice area. Again Hobbs meter is clicking away and $$$ out of the student's pocket to flight school/CFI.
Hi Douglas! This is also a big one, thank you for commenting! We see other schools unnecessarily burning engine time far too often. Always follow the checklists - you shouldn't be starting the engine the second you get in the aircraft!
hi, thank you for the video.. any great school recommendations in southern California?
After seeing Batman, I had to go back and watch the video again to see what other background humor I missed lol
This was really helpful. Thank you.
Nice job guys. A couple more: 141 vs 61 "advantages", and the need to present training cost vs. salary ratios so they have a reality check before diving into $100k++ student loans.
wayman air does this and its very off putting
Thank y'all for the good info you have put out. I always enjoy new videos from US Sport Aircraft when they come out. This is the second one I have seen that y'all have done on scams, and the info is very pertinent. When I started my training at the current flight school I attend, I went in there more prepared and was asking a lot of questions just based on the first video. After this one, I am still pleased with the school as they were completely honest with me. Again, thank you so much for the great videos and information!!!
Hi jaytheseabee! We're glad you enjoy the videos and we're especially glad they helped you when determining your flight school of choice! Stories like yours are exactly why we make these videos. Thanks for watching and best of luck!!!
You guys are one of the many channels that are super encouraging and have recently found inspiration to go get my license.
Hi Ten Lugg Gaming! We're so glad you enjoy our channel! Thanks for watching!
Those are all valid points in retrospective, but I don't see how a rookie could tell a good school from a bad one BEFORE he's been in. I've had my share with bad and unreputable places and I'm still continuing to do so, because even I don't know the people and the schemes until I've seen them (I have a commercial license which I earned over 9 years on 3 continents). Before you sign, everything seems always perfect. One time I thought I had a good school because they had statements from former students online, all confirming the quality of the place when surprise, they let the unhappy students behind (I would be one of them). I wouldn't trust schools who offer 4-weeks-PPL courses at all (the theory part takes 3 months alone and even with that completed, the timeframe is far too tight) and I agree that you have to check the fleet before you sign (but again, what does a rookie know about aircrafts before he starts flying?) They won't tell you whether they have their instructors on a paycheck or freelancing either and they surely won't tell you anything negative about their own maintenance. MANDATORY paying upfront is a huge red flag as well (they might be in financial trouble and once they close, the money is gone, check the contract for details). Promises regarding expected pilot shortages are shady as well. The only advise I can give is what steveo came up with already: Find something local because in that case you are less dependant on them and I personally had more luck with small schools, because they seemed to show more interest in their students (e.g., a club). Browsing forums like pprune can be helpful indeed as well. Chances might be low but if you are considering training at EFT/Florida, F-AIR /Czech Repub., Uniqueair /South Africa, Flugschule Marl /Germany or Southend Flying Club /UK, feel free to ask me for my opinion for I've been at these places :)
Hi Elija Matt! Great comment, very helpful and informative for future students. You are correct in that a new student will have a harder time to weed out the shadier flight schools since their knowledge in aviation will be limited but hopefully, they'll be able to read about people's experiences such as yours and find a flight school that suits them! Thanks for watching!
This is a great insight into the flight schools..I have looked around and have experienced all of these.
I like how y'all play while being serious.
I have a few hours in my logbook from high school in the 1970s.
Now I have a pilot's bag, an aluminum E6-B9 computer by Aero Products Research Inc, a Sigtronics Gold Wing headset, a Vertex Standard Pilot Air Band handheld transceiver, several books, and the complete King School DVD ground school course. All this is from fifteen years ago when I thought I would fly. It didn't work out at that time.
Now the interest has returned.
The mortgage and car will be paid off in four and half to five years. If I study the course diligently during that time, I may be able to take lessons, with a possibility of buying an old Cessna 150.
One downside is the nearest CFI/school is almost sixty miles away from my small rural town in the South.
Thanks for the video and the laughs.
who else saw Batman?
I thought that was the Riddler! I have billions of eyes, yet I live in darkness. I have millions of ears, yet only four lobes. I have no muscle, yet I rule two hemispheres. What am I?
Did you see the other ones? I saw four not including batman. I might have missed half.
swiper no swiping!
Hahahahhahahaa
Not me, I was looking at Sarah the entire time
I clicked for the girl
Same here!
I clicked for batman
and for her teeth
I dont even care about aviation
How about her eyes!
Want to fly cheaper?
1. AVOID flight schools for ground training. If you live in (or near) a reasonably large city, you may find a local community college that gives ground school. They will be way cheaper, like $30-$50 per semester, let you buy your own materials, and often have better teachers in any case. My instructor there was an ex-astronaut.
In addition, you will likely find they will hook you up with a free-lance instructor and perhaps even a good deal on an airplane rental as well. Our instructor would invite local free-lance instructors to come and visit the class and offer their services, and we did group airplane block hours.
2. Try a free-lance instructor. Many instructors are happy to instruct outside of an FBO, which lowers their costs since they are not paying the FBO, and thus lower your costs.
I even know several instructors who teach at academies, but take freelance on the side. Even if the academies are not aware of it.
3. Join a flight club instead of a FBO or training academy. Lots of airplane owners want to recoup expenses by renting their airplanes while not in use. They join flight clubs as owners. FBOs or academies often also offer this service to owners, but usually it is on terrible terms, shifting most costs to the owner and pocketing most of the students money. Plus owners avoid renting to a training academy because they beat up airplanes. Finally, flight trainer outfits want the owner to reserve most of the airplane's time for their students, meaning the owner has trouble getting time in his own plane.
4. Get as much ground as you can stand before flying. If you haven't read up, you will have the instructor teaching you what you should have known in ground school, and charging you for that time. If you get most of your ground out of the way first, and even preferably pass the FAA written, you are ahead of the game. Take as much flight instruction as you need during this to keep your interests up.
5. Look at your total costs vs. purchasing an airplane. You aren't going to be a pilot in less than 60 hours or so. That's real flight hours, not ground time. Figure about $100/hr for the plane, and that's $6,000 MINIMUM. You might be able to by a beater Cessna 150, fly it to become a pilot, then sell it for about the same money and be out only the maintenance costs. If you go IFR, you can double those figures. You may decide at the end of it you like the cheap airplane and want to keep it, or you might decide you want a de-iced P210. Either way, at that point you will be a pilot and have a basis for a decision.
6. Don't get a whizz-bang plane to take lessons in. Getting a new or near new Cessna 172 with glass cockpit might be cool, but you don't need it to learn flying and it will, in fact, make you a worse pilot, since you won't know how to fly anything but glass airplanes. And that will push up your rental costs by $50 to $100 per hour.
I love your accelerated program. Nice vid and keep up the creepy appearances. Lol. Funny guy.
Wow what an advertisement. That was genius 😂👌. I'm sold, I'll go learn to fly in tx.
Nothing wrong with flying an old bird.
depends on the old bird most training aircraft have been treated pretty rough by dodgy students
*nothing wrong with flying an old bird that has been properly maintained.
Looks better in your logbook when it comes to chasing the first job to. A charter employer with old C206s isn't going to be impressed with someone bragging about glass cockpit time in a diamond.
gnarkillkicksass, EXACTLY!! For my PPL I trained in an old 1979 C152 with the basic 6-pack and which is pretty "bare bones". While my school does have newer mid-2000 172 SPs and even a couple of newer 172s with the Garmin G1000 full glass cockpits, all of their aircraft, including the older 152s are extremely well taken care of.
Now that I have over 110 hours in the 152, I intend to do my instrument training on the G1000 equipped planes. However, I am a firm believer that one *MUST* do their basic training (PPL) in a "bare bones" aircraft to develop good basic flying skills, without all the "automation" distracting you. And for me, of course, the big side benefit was a significant cost savings!
I'm training in a 79' 172!
Thank you so much for your video. I will will love to do A private pilot license. Will love to know the cost and the best way to get it. Am staying in South Africa.
I’ve been looking to become a pilot I’m looking into attending ATP FAST TRACK. Are there better more cost efficient ways to become a commercial pilot? Which programs should I also look into??
Check check check, i just did a video on this. Alarming how much new students get taken for a ride. Good info.
Good information. Enjoyed the humor.
Hey guys!
Thanks for this informative video!
I was wondering if you know anything about Epic Flight Academy? I’m an international student. Any tips/advice would be great!
So much geeking the camera in the background of this video! Haha!
Been there sadly but had the sense to bail out again when but only when my gut instinct was absolutely SCREAMING at me! Moved on to better after doing my homework but the false start I experienced was confidence-bashing and bad for undergoing a rigorously demanding learning experience such as flight training. The first place just did not feel right from the start and had I done my homework before going there / seen this but this was not around for me to learn from back in 1997 I may have experienced a better start to what is still my livelihood. So I condone this 100% as revelation of fact and not just mischievous whistle blowing or scare mongering: Nice work!
the fake smyling is unreal
"your friends at ... " Sorry, no, you're not my friends. You're an employee, if I'm a student.
This. In every sphere of life.
Wessel Meijs that's what it's like in America. Come to the UK! There's none of that fake bullshit
Wessel Meijs the redundancy is redundant :D :p it's true, though
English on point
Very useful information. Thank you
Awesome video and great information! Thanks
Priceless information!!!
Love the humour in this educational video :)
Instrument training traps:
1. CFIIs not being experts at the avionics in the training planes. What's the point of flying Archer 100is if the CFIIs don't know how to use the G3X nor the autopilot systems well?
2. If you're training on a TAA, then you are OWED training on using the autopilot, the PFD, the MFD, and the GPS. I failed my IFR on one single item because I never got taught to fly an approach with a miss and a re-approach from the hold point which was at the FAF using the autopilot. I was never taught how to reset the GPS to reshoot the approach. I was never taught what the APR and TO/GA switches did. It caused my to screw up my second approach.
3. Signing you off on IFR ground training that doesn't even cover half of what you need to know to pass the written. Signing off on a check ride when there is clearly a gap in your training.
4. Not keeping a record of the preferences of the various DPEs used by the school. I actually got a DPE that preferred I use an autopilot on approaches. My school had used him multiple times; so they had to have had this info.
5. Long CFII silences or absences. If you're flying with a CFII who says nothing for 20 minutes at a time or is chatting on his phone instead of teaching you the avionics while en route, then you're getting ripped off.
6. The CFII does stuff that he should be teaching you, like working the coms, setting the frequencies, staying ahead of the aircraft, because they want the flight to go faster. I hate that, and it rips me off of experience I need to have.
Are there any scholarship or grant programs available for high school seniors that want to go straight into flight school after graduation?
Thank you very much !!!
For this video I just visualized.
Excellent service!
Bravo
Congratulations.
Thank you for the kind words Allane Golfiguer! We're glad you enjoyed our video!
Cute and informative video,... Thank You
Great video and Sarah is an absolute doll... where can I find a woman like that?
Good vid
Thanks Sara and Nathan great suggestions
Good video but too bad no one can afford flight school 😂
i love the way you sneak up in the back sometimes! thanks for the information :-) i wanna be a glider Pilot,
and in a couple of months i wanna start my flight training. im 13 now, and i wanna start when im 14!
We're glad you enjoyed the video, CaptainJelte! Good luck on your flight training and thanks for watching!
CaptainJelte im 13 too but here in Hungary when i will be 14 i could just drive 50cc motor not glider! Good luck to your test
cool! thanks tho :-)
CaptainJelte start driving a car in parking lots with your parents, really.
Nice video looking to become a pilot nice tips..
I agree except for the lie that you need late model airplanes. A plane from the 60s flies just as well as a late model plane.
One of the scams not included in this list is the scam being implied: that you have to fly a shiny new model plane with a color screen if you want your license to count for something. That is a scam.
Thank you for the smiles in the video; very trustworthy because of it. :D
Awesome. I want to learn but know nothing about good training.
this is a very informative and well done video. thanks for the tips.
Great video. Are you in Dallas-Fort Worth area only?
Hi Aviator 1681! Yes, currently our only location is at KADS in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Thanks for watching!
Very true, I shopped around. Currently w/ DTC, Oakland County, MI. Michigan's largest.
What is DTC? We are also in Michigan near Oakland County. But due to weather we were looking at flight schools out of state.
Thank you for this video and very usefuland clear information ,thank you Sarah and Nathan, I'm very happy you made this.
I only have a Hong Kong driver's license , is it ok to go to US flight school to get a PPL?
Thank you guys, I’m interested in trying this.
Do you guys have any advice for someone getting out of the military looking to join a program that's attached to a university? i was looking into Aeroguard but ive seen so many negative reviews. im not sure what to think anymore but i definitely want to pursue a career as a pilot. Thanks in advance,
Yes, Illinois Aviation Academy is one of those schools you talking about. Piper Aztec N6823Y, the instructor made the student fly with No brakes in the wintertime, students have to pay for a checklist. After each day of ground class instructor makes a student sing a paper so they teach him all ground oral info.
As an instructor I approach number one on this list this way: I let the student do their own math. Here is what I tell prospect students. 1) Here is the cost of the airplane per hour. 2) here is the cost of the instructor per hour. 3) Here is the minimum (dual/solo/total) hours the FAA requires to get done. 4) here is the national average of hours most students ACTUALLY get done. 5) Here are extra expenses beyond the airplane/instructor i.e. I have a minimum pilots supply list.... required books, E6B computer, headsets, etc... I then have an fancy optional list, if the student wants to go the extra mile on purchases. I then explain all the variables that contribute to the national average of hours for completion being higher than the FAA minimum. I NEVER give them a set number of hours for completion. instead I explain to them how its possible to get done near the minimum, but what is actually more realistic for completion. I just tell them the FAA minimum and the national avg. hours. From there the student can figure out what is best for them.
Lol! This kinda reminds of truck driver training mills. Any advice on reputable flight schools for beginners in Minnesota?
my school was honest just expensive they quoted me at 64 hours to completion for private pilot average.
They also said that it’s better to do it in a chunk because it’ll end up costing more in the long run if you spread it out and by instructor made me get a medical right away to make sure his students did not wast money if they cannot qualify fly.
Where did you go to get yours?
AWESOME VIDEO. THANK YOU.
Very good points. I Instructed at both Part 61 and Part 141. If the CFI isn't giving a break down of the FAR hour requirements or the FAR Flight School approved requirements, then that's a red flag. Through these requirements, the CFI should break down the financial, time and realistic goals of the student. The unpredictable variable is the student's progression, where as it's both on the STUDENT and INSTRUCTOR to make progression happen. I see a lot of students blame the CFI for everything. If it's not working out, get a new CFI. It's not going to hurt the CFI's feelings and it's your money/time.
What’s the best flight school in Scottsdale Az? Looking to get back into flying after many years of being to busy to fly!
To all aviation fanatics, like to give you short scenario of mine and ask your honest and experienced opinions.
I am 50 years old, and due to lack of timing, job, etc. I starred the training urge very late in early 2014. I am from upstate NY, NYC to be exact which you can imagine, closes airfield is 1 hour drive and weather, and restriction on the air fields, my location is not suitable for training. I had my due delegacy research and went down Miami to see the existing training schools in 2015 spring. Needles to say, in 2015 they were charging $160 + 60 for instructor and some of them they even charging with fuel & insurance on top of that. They were the wolf of the aviation, waiting to hunt , from your pocket. I didn't feel comfortable with the schools, I reviewed almost 5 of them. Most desirable one was ATP which they were not allowing part 61 or private pilot training. In that visit to Miami, I passed the 3rd degree medical and got certificate in the time being.
Following fall I had 3 heart stance implant which directly pushed back everything on the schedule.
But I didn't stop ground study thru sporty and internet sources, I signed up to Aviation seminars weekend ground training school in MD. After the weekend training I took the exam and failed with 68. Until that time I had no flight time. Following spring I made another trip but this time I concentrated on Orlando and vicinity. Prices were anywhere between $150 with no glass cockpit to $185 with GS1000 instructor rates was from $50 to $85 the most. Major airline focused schools was located at Daytona area, I also visited them one by one.
I have to admit, as you indicate in your post, they had great adds, mind blowing promising but once you showed up , most of them was totally messed up. I visited Aorism, which out of all the flight schools in the area they have the most fleet with offering only part 141. Next in the list I found out great deal of professionalism was Epic Flight academy which also focused on part 141. Next one on the list was Flight Training professionals which wasn't offering accelerated program, but They got high marks at AOPA school list 2 years in row. Most interesting flight school that I came across was Sun State Aviation. Great building, nice equipment, ands new fleet but milking your pocket attitude.
With their rate $228 -with GS1000 cockpit + $79 CFI, they were the most expensive school in that entire Orlando area. That wasn't just the price, they were also forcing the training for you to stay in extended hours for their students which I found out after I had conversation with their 3 active student. Next stop was Tailwheels Etc. flight school which the only one which eagerly offering accelerated training in the area. I contacted with them couldn't even get definite answer to visit their facility neither they had enough plane for the training also their CFI's was on part time bases. After spending thousands $ and time, search was discouraging. I gave one more changes and targeted AOPA listings on 2014 and 2015 of best schools. I found another candidate at
Ft Myers, Paragon flight school. They were the only one, didn't ask me upfront payment nor student pre-paid account. Back then they had $150 for the plane & $50 for the instructor. Young crew, and had several AOPA honor list instructors. The conclusion was the final approach for me to review the school. Their down sides, their CFI are very young and they were eagerly jumping to the airline by building hours at the schools. After these search and reviews I went back to NY and signed up accelerated weekend class at American Flyers weekend schools in NJ. Class was great and informative, but you have to study on the side though cannot rely on only their study. They are using experienced and old time pilots that have thousands of hour's experience. My unfortunate path stopped with FAA rejection on my cardiologic test. Then they required more test results such as additional stress test, full medical history etc. The they gave me 3 months to complete.
After a year and half I had to stopped by FAA this time. I waited but couldn't take the test, due to unknown future on my flight path. I hope I could get repeat class from them, which I am was told could it be done.
I recently passed the medical test which I have valid certificate until 2018 thank god.
What happened in the mean time; I reviewed and felt the one thing :
without dedicating least a month or so there will be no pilot certificate. Couple hours of flying every here and there, won't give me any boost.
I decided to delicate my time and $ to take off from my work and life on up state and move to Florida sun shine state for training. Needles to say, I focused on Paragon flight school and visited them recently. The only change and down side that I noticed was the CFI crew got much younger with less flight hours. This detail made me worry, because young guys mostly focusing on their carrier path more than teaching ability. In the same token, many maneuver or case study is taking place while you and your CFI is on the control rather than playing the scenario with his/ her experience and learning the outcome in details. Learning as you fly , should be your target not your CFI's. The other issue was, I haven't got clear $ estimation nor average time and cost for the solo and the completion of the training from the previous pilots that they got their certificates from the school.
But schools have good feedback and reputation and have well maintained fleet. I believe will be good fit.
After all this short story of mine, would like to know if anyone out here read this has experience with the school , any suggestion or recommendation on CFI whom they had training previously. Anyone had solo with the school, how many hours it took for them, my main focus and aim is least 2 hours of flight time a day min.
Of course depends on the weather. Also any recommendation for the area, airports , cross country flights, in that regards perhaps any lead that you might experienced on your flight training that you may direct/ suggest to newly starters as myself... Thank you ...
Thanks for the tips
I had a good experience at American Flyers. Big school but planes and instructors were available whenever I wanted. A couple of times I complained about a charge, they took it off.
I also think it is good advice to get your instrument rating ASAP. If you get in the clouds you will be happy you did!
planes are too old
Keep doing what your doing with your vids, info and humor works.
Beware of advice from competitor companies that contain good looking girls with large breasts
Daver Son
Can you give me an example?
i.e. Brochures, web links, addresses, phone numbers, GPS coordinates?
Daver Son Everything they say does make sense. Translucency in business practices is a great advertising strategy. And probably the most honest one, considering they are showing you all the flaws and lies, and tell you what to look for. Doubt they are what they are describing here. Industry’s everywhere that want you business, especially ones like these are full scams and unhealthy illegal practices. This world is getting worse by the hour.
I experienced 9 out of 10 of these at a crappy flight “school” called ATP. It was literally the worst experience of my life and drove me out of aviation and killed my dream to become an airline pilot. I suffered from depression for years until I got professional help YEARS later. I bombed my first instrument rating check ride not even close. The chief flight instructor ignored my lack of progress and insufficiently handled an issue I had with one of the instructors. NEVER GO TO ATP especially any accelerated flight school
Good information, but honestly I had to rewatch some of it because the antics were distracting.
#1 Flight schools take make videos about flight school scams to seem trustworthy
Thank you for the information.
Find an instructor that IS NOT just there to build hours. Start in a tailwheel aircraft off a grass strips if at all possible. Don't bother with glass panel aircraft unless you really want to become an airline pilot. The reality of general aviation for the masses is older steam gauges and older airframes.
My favorite is the looooong circuits I see nowadays; almost out of sight from the airport. I'm not quite sure what's happening during the 7 or 8 minutes per circuit (other than someone's building time). And this is in 150's! (172's are bigger.) Start final 2 miles back, flap down and drag it in, shoot for 1/3 down the runway...I dunno.
Do you guys have any idea about the Aerocadet flight programs? Would be glad if I could get some clarification regarding it.
Thank you for video... BTW what type of aircraft it is @1:20 "light sports" its says.
Dr Aviation it's a Czech Sport Cruiser
Hi Dr Aviation! SolarAbyss is correct - that's a SportCruiser! You can learn more about it here: www.ussportaircraft.com/aircraft/about-the-sportcruiser/
Thanks for watching!
I was seconded from the U.K. to an American flight school affiliated to an American university looking to train international students for European issued certificates. My first surprise was that FAA certified flight instructors were expected to prepare their own lesson plan. All British flight training follows a set syllabus based on the RAF training syllabus. My second surprise was that the average number of hours to solo in America was 25. the average number of hours to solo in Britain was 15. My third surprise was that on obtaining a private certificate an FAA pilot could proceed almost immediately for a Certified flight instructors certificate. Currently in Britain certified flying instructors certificates are not issued before 200 hours of which 150 must be P1. My fourth surprise was that many FAA certified flight instructors appeared to regard their students as a source of income. It appeared perfectly acceptable that if the students flew more hours than they would generate more income. I regarded that to be open to abuse and questionably ethical. Finally I had to adjust to CFI meaning Certified Flight Instructor. Up until this point CFI to me, had always been Chief Flying Instructor. Flight Instructors were FI's. The big problem is that students are not in a position to differentiate between good and bad instructors. Hence my use of the word ethical.
I ran the maintenance at a couple of flight schools for approx a decade. I could make a list a mile long on how students get ripped off. Lol. We referred to new pilots as fresh meat and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Hahahahahaha
Please, do tell lol before I go to flight school
For any student pilot watching this, when they went over things a student pilot should buy, I would highly recommend buying and electronic version of the FAR/AIM. 9.99 in the App Store and you always get the new version free every year they release it
Great video thanks! I didnt know about the "show pony" trick!!
We're glad you enjoyed it and found it useful - thanks for watching!!
What is the more favorable helicopter school, please
Thank you
I recommend Texas State Technical College, Aircraft Pilot Training Technology in Waco, Texas. No scams, Part 141 flight training.
I'd love to instruct there. Looks like a real fun place. Love the videos!
Thanks for the kind words, strato172! If you live in the Dallas-Fort Worth area we'd love to have you! If you're already a CFI you can email your resume to nathan@ussportaircraft.com! If you're a commercial pilot looking to become a CFI you can check out our CFI Academy: ua-cam.com/video/6YUVyKMQchk/v-deo.html or if you're not yet a commercial pilot we can get you there too!
We’re always looking for skillful, energetic instructors and office staff to add to our team. Our compensation packages are very competitive, with full and part-time opportunities available. Flight instructors at US Sport Flight Academy can instruct various programs in a multitude of aircraft, with opportunities for cross-country aircraft deliveries and earning commission on new students. Thanks for watching!